Is the ability to love proof we were created by God?

[Johnny Ready]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Union Scribe (a host of the General Discussion forum).

One of my favorite questions in life is how did an ameoba in a mud puddle develop emotions, like love and or hate? If you believe in God that answer is simple. For those who do not it is a very solid question, with many different answers. So i would like to ask you, what do you think? Is love proof we were created by God, or can these emotions be explained by evolution?

For the record I do believe in God, but realize that does not mean everyone else does. My best argument for the existence of God might be emotions, it's hard (for me) to understand how we were able to develop them if we did evolve from a puddle of mud.

By the way this is just a simple question, not an advertisement for religion. If you choose to not believe in God that is ok with me, I believe in personal choice and freedom to be independent.

[Scuba]

1. No.

Do you think all the hate coming out of churches is proof of God's existence too?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. That implies a moral offense.

[Shivering Jemmy]

2. No

Love is simply a chemical process that provides motivation to do certain things.

[cali]

9. well, in the sense that everything is chemical, but it's a little more complex than that.

[Shivering Jemmy]

15. Let me put it this way

I don't think love has any spiritual meaning or value. It's just an evolutionary mechanism to ensure we have babies and protect our family group.

[cali]

31. I disagree on both points.

Love has spiritual meaning in the sense that it can sustain, it can deepen character, etc. Yes, it's an evolutionary mechanism. No, that's not all it is. It's intrinsic to art, literature, music, etc.

but then I suppose you see art as merely an evolutionary mechanism too.

[Shivering Jemmy]

33. Yes. I believe that art

is just a side effect of an overclocked brain. And I just don't think the word "spiritual" means anything at all.

[cali]

49. a chacun son gout

some folks tend to have a one dimensional perspective on complex issues. that's not to say that they're wrong within that construct.

[ismnotwasm]

3. No

I'm not a person of faith, but why would a person of faith need "proof" of God's existence? Isn't faith the certainty of God? The whole point of faith?


“Faith, hope, love, and insight are the highest achievements of human effort. They are found-given-by experience.”


― C.G. Jung, Modern Man in Search of a Soul

[MissMillie]

22. I always wondered why so many people try to "prove" their faith

I mean, once you've proven it, then it's not faith anymore.... and therefore unremarkable.

[madokie]

4. Its all evolution my friend

No sky fairy involved here. IMHO

[cthulu2016]

5. No. (and amoebas never did develop love or hate)

[cali]

6. no, it's not. it's not even evidence.

and no, single cell organisms do not have emotions.

and no, humans didn't evolve from a "puddle of mud".

[Ohio Joe]

7. No

There can be no such thing as evidence of anything that exists only through faith.

[whatthehey]

8. a bit more likely

that it's proof of the existence of endorphins and the evolutionary necessity of small, slow, weak animals forming social bonds, but that's how inductive inference works; we form separate conclusions.

Not seeking complexity needlessly however is wise advise, from a theologian to boot.

[Sedona]

10. No.

[RussBLib]

11. that's just silly

but that's what a lot of "believers" do...grasp at straws....always looking for some kind of justification for their faith.

Being an atheist, that question is absurd on its face.

[closeupready]

45. +1 - riddles are "proof of God". The logic

is self-evident, we're always told (with a smile).

[LisaLynne]

12. I used to think our sense of justice meant that we were somehow "created" by something, but ...

a lot of those emotions, which we assign such lofty ideals to, could very well have biological or evolutionary advantages, thus why they developed. In general, we are better off living in groups, therefore, those that felt that sort of bond, such as love, to others in the group would stick together and fair better than those that did not and were more likely to strike out on their own. I've also come to see the concept of justice as being good for survival -- really, the more of us that are around, the better, so if we have a sense of fairness, of sharing with others, I think it's more likely that we would survive and thus that trait is cultivated.

Also, I think because we humans intellectualize so much, we tend to over-emphasize the uniqueness of ourselves and our emotions. I have seen my dog get jealous when I'm petting the cat. How many would argue then that God granted a dog emotions - usually people get mad if you say a dog has a soul or anything like that.

[cthulu2016]

13. It *strongly* suggests that one was created by the other

That God and man share this human trait does indeed suggest a connection... but not that man was created by god.

Other way around.

[Orrex]

14. Duck Dynasty should be accepted as proof that there is no God

[randome]

16. Or Sarah Palin. Or candy corn.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Orrex]

18. I formallly rebuke your anti-candy corn bigotry.

[randome]

32. Lewis Black agrees with me. With company like that, your POV loses. Sorry.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Orrex]

41. Zealot!

[seveneyes]

17. Pleasure and Pain

God is the easiest explanation for that which can not be explained by science. Pleasure and pain are the unexplained realities in our world of unknowns.

[Myrina]

19. Would the inverse mean people w/o the ability to love WEREN'T "created by God" ?

If I were a religious person, I might take offense to that.

I think 'emotions' are chemically based. As a longtime sufferer of hormone-related migraines I can attest to running the entire gamut of emotions - alone in bed at home with no outside stimulus - during the course of a migraine. My internal chemistry is all fucked up trying to re-regulate itself & fight off the migraine - it's like a really weird acid trip.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

20. As much as the ability to smite is proof that we were created by God.

[EOTE]

21. It's something I think about quite a bit as well.

I'd say my beliefs over time have evolved as follows:

1) Atheist
2) Agnostic
3) Believer
4) Agnostic once again.

A few years ago, I had what could best be described as a near death experience. It was utterly incredible and my first cogent words after it were "How can I possibly go back to being an agnostic after this?" There seems to be some aspect of the near death experience that makes people utterly certain of both a benevolent creator and the afterlife. Thinking back to that experience, I know how utterly convinced I was, but being of a somewhat scientific mind, I can't think of anything objective that made me feel that way, it was mostly emotions (although I do think I received an incredible amount of information that day, it's just hard to quantify). I'm still closer to being a believer than not (although I think I believe in an afterlife more than I believe in God).

I see what you're saying about emotions and it seems to me that erratic emotions in this very deterministic world we live in does lend credence to the idea of a god. I also believe that having free will also suggests a creator of sorts. Having felt my soul leave my body, I strongly believe that there is a part of us all beyond the physical. Anyway, it's an interesting discussion you've started.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Did they close the religion group?

Religious issues are not suppose to be posted in GD.

[pintobean]

26. It will likely be locked.

Pro religion/faith threads get locked, anti religion/faith threads don't.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. That's not the case of late at all, religion threads are common in GD 'I love this Pope'

being a leading theme. They go without locking, in spite of the fact that the SOP of GD specifically states that religious subjects are not welcome in GD, the 'anti or pro' aspect is beside the point of the SOP. It is the subject, not the opinion about the subject that is not supposed to be in GD, this used to be enforced well, now GD has daily religious displays.
The hosts are negligent.

[cordelia]

39. Yep

[el_bryanto]

43. I think it goes both ways these days

Certainly many Pro-Pope threads have been ignored.

Bryant

[closeupready]

44. +1000000.

[JoePhilly]

24. Why do fish swim in schools? (this is a relevant question)

To keep this simple, fish swim in schools for protection.

The behavior of grouping together, in schools, or herds, helps a species avoid predators and survive. That's why this behavior is so common in the animal world.

Likewise, Humans were successful because over time those who preferred to belong to social groups survived more effectively than those who were more nomadic.

The feeling of Love reflects a social attachment. Love your spouse, love your kids, love your neighbor. Survival for early humans depended on it.

And over time, the sense of social attachment evolved into something that we can name, love.

Importantly, those who study Comparative Psychology have found that humans are not the only species to experience love. Dolphins, Elephants, and many other animal species display signs of love, including morning the death of family and group members.

If you think Love proves God, you have to also be able to explain why animals also experience love. And then answer the question ... "Does their experience of love prove they have their own God?"

[winter is coming]

25. No. All it proves is that we have the ability to love. n/t

[dorkzilla]

27. Nope. Elephants love too. They don't have a god. nt

[Zorra]

28. I dunno. But if I were to choose a god, love would be her. nt

[sibelian]

29. I don't think there can ever really be any proof that there is a God.

Having said that, I'm not sure it's necessary or advisable to consider divinity as something that requires proof.

[Demo_Chris]

34. No, it's just chemicals dancing to Darwin. Trickier, but still easily delt with...

Trickier, but still easily delt with, is the philisophical question of whether god is necessary to give ethical decisions objective meaning. Sadly, for the theist at any rate, unless you are stipuating the possibility of human existance extending beyond the death of our species or the heat death of the universe, the answer remains that god is unnecessary.

[In_The_Wind]

35. What makes you think an amoeba has emotion? Oh and, No.

[RadiationTherapy]

38. A better question may be: What is it that causes us to love?

By including your personal preferred solution as the de facto conclusion of a difficult question, you are closing off every other potential answer, of which there are several. (evolutionary biology leading to oxytocin surges at particular moments, etc.)

[agent46]

40. It's proof

It's proof we are mammals and nurture our young. Some mammals, including humans, may develop a little nuance and become able to nurture other living beings as well.

[closeupready]

42. That's just really dumb, sorry. Equally proof of Athena, Goddess of

Goddess of Whatever She Was Goddess of.

[Marrah_G]

46. Short list: War, Wisdom and Justice

[snooper2]

47. LOL

Four nuns were standing in line at the gates of heaven. Peter asks the first if she has ever sinned. "Well, once I looked at a man's penis," she said. "Put some of this holy water on your eyes and you may enter heaven," Peter told her. Peter then asked the second nun if she had ever sinned. "Well, once I held a man's penis," she replied. "Put your hand in this holy water and you may enter heaven," he said. Just then the fourth nun pushed ahead of the third nun. Peter asked her, "Why did you push ahead in line?" She said, "Because I want to gargle before she sits in it!"


While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.





LOL

[Union Scribe]

48. Locking.

A consensus of hosts agree this is not GD material. Please consider reposting in the Religion group.