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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'Poor People Do Not Deserve to Have Children'
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/11/01-5Millions of Americans who would go hungry without SNAP, nearly half of whom are children. (Photo: EdVote.org)
I received a phone call Thursday from someone who had seen Demos Vice President, Heather McGhee, on MSNBC talking about why people need food stamps. The caller stated, People who are poor do not deserve to have children. Ive seen these people with 1,2, 5 children. If you cant afford to feed them, dont have them.
Its easy to dismiss this as the ravings of a lunatic but the truth is that this mentality is all too pervasive, even though it is repulsive both as a matter of public policy and as a moral value.
First, lets start with the basics. The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), referred to often as food stamps, doesnt just serve people with children. More than one-quarter of SNAP recipients live in households with seniors or people with disabilities. The recent growth in SNAP spending is because we were in a recession and in a recession, people lose their sources of income. When they lose income, they find it hard to buy things, like food. SNAP actually works exactly as a safety-net program should: It provides assistance to people who are on the brink and prevents them from falling over the edge.
Second, contrary to the hysteria around it, there is very little fraud or mismanagement of SNAP benefits. In fact, SNAP has one of the most rigorous quality control systems of any public benefit program. As for fraud, as Matt Bruenig wrote, its not something we should worry about. Despite this, people refuse to let go of the image of the Cadillac Welfare Queen in all her racially tinged glory. There is an ugly undercurrent of racism in much of the misinformation and fear-mongering around public benefits.
treestar
(82,383 posts)from horrible people. So once they had them, it's OK for them to starve?
And how do you know you'll always be as rich as you are now? What if you had them when you weren't poor.
Mean and stupid.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)It's sickening - but it does underscore that these mean-spirited, hateful people aren't "pro-life". They're pro-telling women that they're a man's property, which, of course, includes their wombs.
DBoon
(22,363 posts)Welfare would make them lazy and dependent of the dole.
None of this nonsense if new
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)It is disgusting and mean and stupid, especially considering the lengths to which some people will go in this nation to ensure that every fetus makes it into the world.
REP
(21,691 posts)She literally stole babies and children from poor families to sell to rich people (including Joan Crawford) - if she didn't have them killed if she deemed them unsellable. This vile woman was lauded as a saint in her time (the wholesale slaughter of children wasn't widely known, though some noticed the death rate of children in her care was more than unusually high) and no one questioned how she always had a ready supply of infants.
http://www.nchgs.org/html/a_story_of_stolen_babies.html
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)And she was allowed to do this for twenty-six years because she moved among the rich and influential?? What a horror.
Perhaps some day someone will make a movie of this woman and her atrocities against the children that were under her care, but considering her influential connections, I won't hold my breath.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I've heard it from people who aren't necessarily horrible. My crazy uncle distinguishes between deserving and undeserving then congratulates himself for his xmas donations.
At the same time, he has been pretty good to our family. He owns a tow service and every sixteenth bday everyone got a card with his business card and were told anytime anywhere he'd be there if they needed something car related. I think everyone has at the very least had a gas can delivered. Lots of tows and he always found people who would work on cars cheap or free.
Obnoxious people can do decent things sometimes.
Few people become wealthy but anyone can become poor.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)or robbed peoples life savings, shouldn't be getting a bonus with Our dime .
tsuki
(11,994 posts)they are desperate to save? They become children. It is a fact that they cannot seem to grasp.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)the tea partiers wet dream.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)they see in their mind's eye are Reagan's mythical "welfare queens" (Blacks, of course, and now also "illegulls" , not White children. That's where the disconnect lies, even though it flies in the face of stats. But, of course, those stats are "biased" under this Black president who, they believe, has the power to fudge the numbers. These people are beyond help, and "news" outlets like CNN, NBC, ABC, Fox "News" Channel and their far-reaching affiliates at the local and state level - as well as corporate-funded HateRadio - work very hard to keep those lies alive.
tsuki
(11,994 posts)white. When Republican women talk like that here, they are talking about whites, by name. They are a cold, hard lot. The "Other" they reference are what they consider poor white trash.
DBoon
(22,363 posts)their punishment for doing so is watching their children starve
ancianita
(36,053 posts)They are as much a human resource as are any other class' children and should be treated as worthy of thriving with good schools and opportunity, not just bare surviving on minimal food, shelter and clothing.
Children are innocent of their parents' sins. That's the social contract.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Plus they should be all about getting people birth control.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Regardless of the circumstances of their birth, these kids are here now. They are US citiizens. It's our duty to protect them and nurture them. It's not just the right thing to do, it's the smart thing to do.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)supporting careless procreation. It just shows our commitment to developing a national moral compass.
DBoon
(22,363 posts)and that human rights are a conspiracy to restrict property rights
ancianita
(36,053 posts)grilled onions
(1,957 posts)Aren't they punished enough? I have seen some very poor people who love and treasure their kids more than some wealthy people who have everyone else raising their brood (from the first diaper) and often little love is in those households.
Secondly there are some who try not to have more kids but the very ones who think they do not deserve kids think they do not deserve birth control either. Does this make the wealthy feel better by having total control over the poor and bitch at them at the same time?
Lastly while they keep chipping away at all food programs for the poor,sick,disabled,elderly I never hear a word about the benefits ever being cut from the very selfish who have created this uncaring scenario.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)They wouldn't recognize irony if it bit them on the ass repeatedly.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Basically they want the poor to suffer as much as they can, have no joy, toil in misery, and die in agony. That way they have someone they can always feel better than.
CrispyQ
(36,461 posts)I think this is a motivating factor for a lot of folks.
Years ago I was 'friends' with a woman. She was quite a bit more well-to-do than I was, & she ran with a group of women that were even more well-to-do than she was. I was never invited to join her with her other friends, we only did solo get togethers. I realized that I was her 'feel good friend.' When she was feeling bad about her economic situation, she would call me. Needless to say, once I realized that, I never did anything with her again.
I don't know why so many people feel the need to feel better than someone, but we certainly do cultivate that attitude in this country & the poor are a very easy target.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)"We don't want you to have access to birth control and we're going to support the concept that men are superior to you and you must subject yourself to their desires for you. When you 'submit' yourself, without birth control, and you get pregnant, don't stop the pregnancy, but when your pregnancy is finished, F**ck your kids. Let their lazy asses starve"
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)seems pretty much on target.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Who are we to decide? Aren't we entitled to our own life decisions and aren't naturally going to be 'selfish' have children because that's nature?
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Shrike47
(6,913 posts)For some strange reason, kids love their parents.
I will never understand why they begrudge people food, in a country that can feed everybody.
CrispyQ
(36,461 posts)People are so worried that some individual in their community might get something from the government that "they don't deserve." Yet those same people don't care about corporate welfare. I guess it's easier to hate & blame someone you can put a face on. ???
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)are almost always willing to claw for anything they can get, even if it's downright fraudulent to do so. Plenty of people that claim non-existent damage every hurricane, fake disability while working under the table, and farm assistance even though they've never so much as planted a seed have that attitude.
CrispyQ
(36,461 posts)while collecting their own (substantial) farm subsidies.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)access to contraception and abortion from them. And we tell women it's their duty to Gawd to stay home and make babies."
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)have never not been poor? Like all poor people were born poor and had kids poor and continue to be poor?
No one ever had a good job, then had kids, and then found themselves without a job and struggling? Or like in my case, your husband leaves you with 4 kids - the 4 kids you had because your husband had a great job and when you had them you had more than enough money to take care of them? Guess what - the kids are still here! You still have to feed them!
And, too, as others have pointed out - the same people who don't want to pay for poor people's birth control are the same ones who are against poor people having children - because they are idiots and do not have the ability to connect the 2. These people are generally republicans.
ck4829
(35,069 posts)CrispyQ
(36,461 posts)Seriously fucked up fuckers, they are!
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Our social safety nets and our economic systems should ensure that every person has dignified access to safe, healthy food, shelter, clothing, etc..
And that effort should start with a universal, national health care plan that provides equal high quality access and care to all, free at point of service.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I agree with everything everyone else has said, but I also know people who COULD afford their kids, and then there was a job loss.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)However, is someone is already poor and on assistance, and has children, I think it is wise to attempt to not have more children.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Whether you judge other people's choices doesn't matter. Should they go hungry if they made a bad choice? Should the children who didn't make the choice but are simply the effect of the choice go hungry?
Response to gollygee (Reply #25)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)and claim to be pro life...lets use our head...if we had our fucking priorities straight, we would be giving giant corporations and millionaires tax breaks...we wouldn't be spending hand over fist for fucking military hardware and going on Rambo like excursions all over the world.
think it's irresponsible to PURPOSELY have children when you are already in a position where you can't even take care of yourself, or just barely able to take care of yourself. However, as others pointed out, not everyone had their children when they were poor. Shit happens, parents lose their jobs or fall into some other type of financial hardship. If we decided not to have children because we *might* be poor one day, nobody would ever procreate. Then you have the unexpected pregnancies which do sometimes happen despite how careful they were. Not everyone is going to want to abort just because they can, as a woman myself, I would never expect another woman to have an abortion if it's not what she really wants. If she does it, she can't take it back and she's got to live with it. There is no do over and that feeling of aborting when you really didn't want to is unlikely to get better. On the other hand, if she wants to abort, that's fine too. Choice is good. SNAP needs to be in place especially for kids because they are never at fault for their predicament, many times the parents aren't either.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)They get everyone else to feel guilty about not taking 'personal responsibility' to 'win' with the shitty hand they were dealt from birth in this rigged game. We have to stop the bullshit about who doesn't and doesn't "deserve" help in this rigged game -- and that means that 100% of the country needs to give it the hell up. It's a national pathology.
Again, the punishment for 'sins' of parents must not be taken out on their children. If every poor parent uses the help their children get, so what. Everyone's the better for any institutions that better the lives of children.
REP
(21,691 posts)On one hand, yes, I wish people would think things through better for their kids' sake.
On the other hand, given even the worst case scenario of anything in the "having a(nother) kid" department, it really takes so little money to feed, clothe, house, etc our fellow citizens who find themselves unable to do so themselves - especially in comparison to the cost of endless wars, rewarding corrupt businesses with bales of cash, etc - and beside it being the right and decent thing to do, we get the return of healthier, better educated members of society who are more likely to contribute in positive ways.
So yeah, I can put on my judgeypants when I see the tear-jerk story about the homeless family having their 10th child, but I know the right thing to do is feed their kids. And maybe give the parents some free BC if they want it
dhill926
(16,337 posts)"to reduce the surplus population."
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)policies, or we will end up like Japan.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)They're just one big fucking lot of warm fuzzy hugs aren't they.
Women? hate em and want to control their bodies, pay them less money....
Kids? they don't want to feed them, school them, or cover their healthcare...
Elderly? why are they not dead yet, damn moochers...
Vets? thanks for your service now go die in some homeless shelter....
I don't see how it should even be this close anymore. How can anyone who isn't a millionaire vote for.... Oh I forgot, because their preacher tells them to do so.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)raise the minimum wage to a livable wage!
JimboBillyBubbaBob
(1,389 posts)just Wow!!