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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 07:53 AM Nov 2013

'Poor People Do Not Deserve to Have Children'

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/11/01-5


Millions of Americans who would go hungry without SNAP, nearly half of whom are children. (Photo: EdVote.org)

I received a phone call Thursday from someone who had seen Demos’ Vice President, Heather McGhee, on MSNBC talking about why people need food stamps. The caller stated, “People who are poor do not deserve to have children. I’ve seen these people with 1,2, 5 children. If you can’t afford to feed them, don’t have them.”

It’s easy to dismiss this as the ravings of a lunatic but the truth is that this mentality is all too pervasive, even though it is repulsive both as a matter of public policy and as a moral value.

First, let’s start with the basics. The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), referred to often as food stamps, doesn’t just serve people with children. More than one-quarter of SNAP recipients live in households with seniors or people with disabilities. The recent growth in SNAP spending is because we were in a recession and in a recession, people lose their sources of income. When they lose income, they find it hard to buy things, like food. SNAP actually works exactly as a safety-net program should: It provides assistance to people who are on the brink and prevents them from falling over the edge.

Second, contrary to the hysteria around it, there is very little fraud or mismanagement of SNAP benefits. In fact, SNAP has one of the most rigorous quality control systems of any public benefit program. As for fraud, as Matt Bruenig wrote, it’s not something we should worry about. Despite this, people refuse to let go of the image of the Cadillac Welfare Queen in all her racially tinged glory. There is an ugly undercurrent of racism in much of the misinformation and fear-mongering around public benefits.
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'Poor People Do Not Deserve to Have Children' (Original Post) xchrom Nov 2013 OP
I have heard that sentiment treestar Nov 2013 #1
Me, too. It's the new argument by RWNJs who are defending the huge food stamp cuts. BlueCaliDem Nov 2013 #31
similar arguments defended the mass starvation of Irish in the early 19th century DBoon Nov 2013 #51
I've heard it too and sometimes expressed on DU. Skidmore Nov 2013 #35
This is not a new idea. It made Georgia Tann the "Mother of Modern Adoption" REP Nov 2013 #43
That Georgia Tann was a horrible, horrible monster! BlueCaliDem Nov 2013 #56
Even worse loyalsister Nov 2013 #39
Amen CFLDem Nov 2013 #49
Too bad we didn't scrutinize Wall street this way, people that fu-ked up orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #2
What do Republicans think happen to all those fetuses that tsuki Nov 2013 #3
' Cognitive Dissonance ' is one of their many ailments . n/t orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #7
exactly. ban birth control, ban abortions, and then watch their children go hungry... magical thyme Nov 2013 #18
Usually when they argue that poor people shouldn't have children, the ONLY people BlueCaliDem Nov 2013 #33
That is not the case here. I live in an area that is about 95% tsuki Nov 2013 #42
Poor people don't deserve to have sex either DBoon Nov 2013 #52
Even if everyone agreed with her, those children exist. They're here. It's called human rights. ancianita Nov 2013 #4
+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #8
+1 gollygee Nov 2013 #21
That's the bottom line. Captain Stern Nov 2013 #36
Absolutely. And we have to fight for them by supporting their parents. That doesn't mean we're ancianita Nov 2013 #37
I bet she thinks the "social contract" is communist DBoon Nov 2013 #53
All sharing is communist to this mindset. But then there's the Second Great Commandment. Go figure. ancianita Nov 2013 #54
First It Was Pets...Now They Don't Deserve Children Either grilled onions Nov 2013 #5
And the same idiots that say this are also against Planned Parenthood. hobbit709 Nov 2013 #6
And against sex ed n2doc Nov 2013 #12
"That way they have someone they can always feel better than." CrispyQ Nov 2013 #28
^^This is what makes me so crazy. FedUpWithIt All Nov 2013 #17
This yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #32
Those children didn't ask to be born, asshat! Scuba Nov 2013 #9
Errrm HUFFLEPUFF Nov 2013 #10
welcome! xchrom Nov 2013 #11
Once the kids are born, they deserve to eat. And be taken care of. Shrike47 Nov 2013 #13
Because someone might get a free can of soup that they don't deserve. CrispyQ Nov 2013 #29
I've noticed the people with that attitude JoeyT Nov 2013 #55
Like some recent repub Congressmen who voted to slash SNAP, CrispyQ Nov 2013 #57
k/r marmar Nov 2013 #14
"They don't deserve to have children, yet we want to take away kestrel91316 Nov 2013 #15
Like poor people laundry_queen Nov 2013 #16
They talk about going to bed hungry like it's a minor incovenience at worst ck4829 Nov 2013 #19
Yes, because they went to bed hungry once in the past year & survived just fine. CrispyQ Nov 2013 #30
Poor people shouldn't exist. LWolf Nov 2013 #20
+1 leftstreet Nov 2013 #22
Another thing is that sometimes people have kids and THEN become poor gollygee Nov 2013 #23
I agree with you. Jenoch Nov 2013 #24
Do you think they should not have food stamps if they are "unwise" is the question here gollygee Nov 2013 #25
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #26
Absolutely not. I never wrote that nor did I imply that. Jenoch Nov 2013 #48
yes, and first of all, these are the same fuckers who are anti abortion gopiscrap Nov 2013 #27
I do OwnedByCats Nov 2013 #34
Only those accidentally born at the top of this rigged game benefit from the "deserves" standard. ancianita Nov 2013 #38
It's one of this things ... REP Nov 2013 #47
well.....this would be one way... dhill926 Nov 2013 #40
IF this is going to be GOP policy, they better pass some ultra-liberal immigration JCMach1 Nov 2013 #41
The fucksticks are against abortion and against feeding the kids who are born. NightWatcher Nov 2013 #44
Offensive. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #45
They wouldn't be poor if the republicans would just B Calm Nov 2013 #46
Wow, JimboBillyBubbaBob Nov 2013 #50

treestar

(82,383 posts)
1. I have heard that sentiment
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:00 AM
Nov 2013

from horrible people. So once they had them, it's OK for them to starve?

And how do you know you'll always be as rich as you are now? What if you had them when you weren't poor.

Mean and stupid.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
31. Me, too. It's the new argument by RWNJs who are defending the huge food stamp cuts.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:56 AM
Nov 2013

It's sickening - but it does underscore that these mean-spirited, hateful people aren't "pro-life". They're pro-telling women that they're a man's property, which, of course, includes their wombs.

DBoon

(22,363 posts)
51. similar arguments defended the mass starvation of Irish in the early 19th century
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:13 PM
Nov 2013

Welfare would make them lazy and dependent of the dole.

None of this nonsense if new

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
35. I've heard it too and sometimes expressed on DU.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:05 PM
Nov 2013

It is disgusting and mean and stupid, especially considering the lengths to which some people will go in this nation to ensure that every fetus makes it into the world.

REP

(21,691 posts)
43. This is not a new idea. It made Georgia Tann the "Mother of Modern Adoption"
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 04:08 PM
Nov 2013

She literally stole babies and children from poor families to sell to rich people (including Joan Crawford) - if she didn't have them killed if she deemed them unsellable. This vile woman was lauded as a saint in her time (the wholesale slaughter of children wasn't widely known, though some noticed the death rate of children in her care was more than unusually high) and no one questioned how she always had a ready supply of infants.

http://www.nchgs.org/html/a_story_of_stolen_babies.html

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
56. That Georgia Tann was a horrible, horrible monster!
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 10:34 AM
Nov 2013

And she was allowed to do this for twenty-six years because she moved among the rich and influential?? What a horror.

Perhaps some day someone will make a movie of this woman and her atrocities against the children that were under her care, but considering her influential connections, I won't hold my breath.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
39. Even worse
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:21 PM
Nov 2013

I've heard it from people who aren't necessarily horrible. My crazy uncle distinguishes between deserving and undeserving then congratulates himself for his xmas donations.

At the same time, he has been pretty good to our family. He owns a tow service and every sixteenth bday everyone got a card with his business card and were told anytime anywhere he'd be there if they needed something car related. I think everyone has at the very least had a gas can delivered. Lots of tows and he always found people who would work on cars cheap or free.

Obnoxious people can do decent things sometimes.

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
2. Too bad we didn't scrutinize Wall street this way, people that fu-ked up
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:03 AM
Nov 2013

or robbed peoples life savings, shouldn't be getting a bonus with Our dime .

tsuki

(11,994 posts)
3. What do Republicans think happen to all those fetuses that
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:04 AM
Nov 2013

they are desperate to save? They become children. It is a fact that they cannot seem to grasp.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
18. exactly. ban birth control, ban abortions, and then watch their children go hungry...
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
Nov 2013

the tea partiers wet dream.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
33. Usually when they argue that poor people shouldn't have children, the ONLY people
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:01 PM
Nov 2013

they see in their mind's eye are Reagan's mythical "welfare queens" (Blacks, of course, and now also "illegulls&quot , not White children. That's where the disconnect lies, even though it flies in the face of stats. But, of course, those stats are "biased" under this Black president who, they believe, has the power to fudge the numbers. These people are beyond help, and "news" outlets like CNN, NBC, ABC, Fox "News" Channel and their far-reaching affiliates at the local and state level - as well as corporate-funded HateRadio - work very hard to keep those lies alive.

tsuki

(11,994 posts)
42. That is not the case here. I live in an area that is about 95%
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:40 PM
Nov 2013

white. When Republican women talk like that here, they are talking about whites, by name. They are a cold, hard lot. The "Other" they reference are what they consider poor white trash.

DBoon

(22,363 posts)
52. Poor people don't deserve to have sex either
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:14 PM
Nov 2013

their punishment for doing so is watching their children starve

ancianita

(36,053 posts)
4. Even if everyone agreed with her, those children exist. They're here. It's called human rights.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:05 AM
Nov 2013

They are as much a human resource as are any other class' children and should be treated as worthy of thriving with good schools and opportunity, not just bare surviving on minimal food, shelter and clothing.

Children are innocent of their parents' sins. That's the social contract.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
36. That's the bottom line.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:11 PM
Nov 2013

Regardless of the circumstances of their birth, these kids are here now. They are US citiizens. It's our duty to protect them and nurture them. It's not just the right thing to do, it's the smart thing to do.

ancianita

(36,053 posts)
37. Absolutely. And we have to fight for them by supporting their parents. That doesn't mean we're
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:14 PM
Nov 2013

supporting careless procreation. It just shows our commitment to developing a national moral compass.

DBoon

(22,363 posts)
53. I bet she thinks the "social contract" is communist
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:15 PM
Nov 2013

and that human rights are a conspiracy to restrict property rights

ancianita

(36,053 posts)
54. All sharing is communist to this mindset. But then there's the Second Great Commandment. Go figure.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:16 PM
Nov 2013

grilled onions

(1,957 posts)
5. First It Was Pets...Now They Don't Deserve Children Either
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:06 AM
Nov 2013

Aren't they punished enough? I have seen some very poor people who love and treasure their kids more than some wealthy people who have everyone else raising their brood (from the first diaper) and often little love is in those households.
Secondly there are some who try not to have more kids but the very ones who think they do not deserve kids think they do not deserve birth control either. Does this make the wealthy feel better by having total control over the poor and bitch at them at the same time?
Lastly while they keep chipping away at all food programs for the poor,sick,disabled,elderly I never hear a word about the benefits ever being cut from the very selfish who have created this uncaring scenario.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
6. And the same idiots that say this are also against Planned Parenthood.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:08 AM
Nov 2013

They wouldn't recognize irony if it bit them on the ass repeatedly.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
12. And against sex ed
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:41 AM
Nov 2013

Basically they want the poor to suffer as much as they can, have no joy, toil in misery, and die in agony. That way they have someone they can always feel better than.

CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
28. "That way they have someone they can always feel better than."
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:43 AM
Nov 2013

I think this is a motivating factor for a lot of folks.

Years ago I was 'friends' with a woman. She was quite a bit more well-to-do than I was, & she ran with a group of women that were even more well-to-do than she was. I was never invited to join her with her other friends, we only did solo get togethers. I realized that I was her 'feel good friend.' When she was feeling bad about her economic situation, she would call me. Needless to say, once I realized that, I never did anything with her again.

I don't know why so many people feel the need to feel better than someone, but we certainly do cultivate that attitude in this country & the poor are a very easy target.

FedUpWithIt All

(4,442 posts)
17. ^^This is what makes me so crazy.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:05 AM
Nov 2013

"We don't want you to have access to birth control and we're going to support the concept that men are superior to you and you must subject yourself to their desires for you. When you 'submit' yourself, without birth control, and you get pregnant, don't stop the pregnancy, but when your pregnancy is finished, F**ck your kids. Let their lazy asses starve"

HUFFLEPUFF

(11 posts)
10. Errrm
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:33 AM
Nov 2013

Who are we to decide? Aren't we entitled to our own life decisions and aren't naturally going to be 'selfish' have children because that's nature?

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
13. Once the kids are born, they deserve to eat. And be taken care of.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:48 AM
Nov 2013

For some strange reason, kids love their parents.

I will never understand why they begrudge people food, in a country that can feed everybody.

CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
29. Because someone might get a free can of soup that they don't deserve.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:46 AM
Nov 2013


People are so worried that some individual in their community might get something from the government that "they don't deserve." Yet those same people don't care about corporate welfare. I guess it's easier to hate & blame someone you can put a face on. ???

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
55. I've noticed the people with that attitude
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 12:55 AM
Nov 2013

are almost always willing to claw for anything they can get, even if it's downright fraudulent to do so. Plenty of people that claim non-existent damage every hurricane, fake disability while working under the table, and farm assistance even though they've never so much as planted a seed have that attitude.

CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
57. Like some recent repub Congressmen who voted to slash SNAP,
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 11:42 AM
Nov 2013

while collecting their own (substantial) farm subsidies.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
15. "They don't deserve to have children, yet we want to take away
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:56 AM
Nov 2013

access to contraception and abortion from them. And we tell women it's their duty to Gawd to stay home and make babies."

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
16. Like poor people
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:03 AM
Nov 2013

have never not been poor? Like all poor people were born poor and had kids poor and continue to be poor?

No one ever had a good job, then had kids, and then found themselves without a job and struggling? Or like in my case, your husband leaves you with 4 kids - the 4 kids you had because your husband had a great job and when you had them you had more than enough money to take care of them? Guess what - the kids are still here! You still have to feed them!

And, too, as others have pointed out - the same people who don't want to pay for poor people's birth control are the same ones who are against poor people having children - because they are idiots and do not have the ability to connect the 2. These people are generally republicans.

CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
30. Yes, because they went to bed hungry once in the past year & survived just fine.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:47 AM
Nov 2013

Seriously fucked up fuckers, they are!

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
20. Poor people shouldn't exist.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:18 AM
Nov 2013

Our social safety nets and our economic systems should ensure that every person has dignified access to safe, healthy food, shelter, clothing, etc..

And that effort should start with a universal, national health care plan that provides equal high quality access and care to all, free at point of service.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
23. Another thing is that sometimes people have kids and THEN become poor
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:22 AM
Nov 2013

I agree with everything everyone else has said, but I also know people who COULD afford their kids, and then there was a job loss.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
24. I agree with you.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:27 AM
Nov 2013

However, is someone is already poor and on assistance, and has children, I think it is wise to attempt to not have more children.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
25. Do you think they should not have food stamps if they are "unwise" is the question here
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:31 AM
Nov 2013

Whether you judge other people's choices doesn't matter. Should they go hungry if they made a bad choice? Should the children who didn't make the choice but are simply the effect of the choice go hungry?

Response to gollygee (Reply #25)

gopiscrap

(23,758 posts)
27. yes, and first of all, these are the same fuckers who are anti abortion
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:39 AM
Nov 2013

and claim to be pro life...lets use our head...if we had our fucking priorities straight, we would be giving giant corporations and millionaires tax breaks...we wouldn't be spending hand over fist for fucking military hardware and going on Rambo like excursions all over the world.

OwnedByCats

(805 posts)
34. I do
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:04 PM
Nov 2013

think it's irresponsible to PURPOSELY have children when you are already in a position where you can't even take care of yourself, or just barely able to take care of yourself. However, as others pointed out, not everyone had their children when they were poor. Shit happens, parents lose their jobs or fall into some other type of financial hardship. If we decided not to have children because we *might* be poor one day, nobody would ever procreate. Then you have the unexpected pregnancies which do sometimes happen despite how careful they were. Not everyone is going to want to abort just because they can, as a woman myself, I would never expect another woman to have an abortion if it's not what she really wants. If she does it, she can't take it back and she's got to live with it. There is no do over and that feeling of aborting when you really didn't want to is unlikely to get better. On the other hand, if she wants to abort, that's fine too. Choice is good. SNAP needs to be in place especially for kids because they are never at fault for their predicament, many times the parents aren't either.

ancianita

(36,053 posts)
38. Only those accidentally born at the top of this rigged game benefit from the "deserves" standard.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:21 PM
Nov 2013

They get everyone else to feel guilty about not taking 'personal responsibility' to 'win' with the shitty hand they were dealt from birth in this rigged game. We have to stop the bullshit about who doesn't and doesn't "deserve" help in this rigged game -- and that means that 100% of the country needs to give it the hell up. It's a national pathology.

Again, the punishment for 'sins' of parents must not be taken out on their children. If every poor parent uses the help their children get, so what. Everyone's the better for any institutions that better the lives of children.

REP

(21,691 posts)
47. It's one of this things ...
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 04:27 PM
Nov 2013

On one hand, yes, I wish people would think things through better for their kids' sake.

On the other hand, given even the worst case scenario of anything in the "having a(nother) kid" department, it really takes so little money to feed, clothe, house, etc our fellow citizens who find themselves unable to do so themselves - especially in comparison to the cost of endless wars, rewarding corrupt businesses with bales of cash, etc - and beside it being the right and decent thing to do, we get the return of healthier, better educated members of society who are more likely to contribute in positive ways.

So yeah, I can put on my judgeypants when I see the tear-jerk story about the homeless family having their 10th child, but I know the right thing to do is feed their kids. And maybe give the parents some free BC if they want it

JCMach1

(27,556 posts)
41. IF this is going to be GOP policy, they better pass some ultra-liberal immigration
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:50 PM
Nov 2013

policies, or we will end up like Japan.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
44. The fucksticks are against abortion and against feeding the kids who are born.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 04:13 PM
Nov 2013

They're just one big fucking lot of warm fuzzy hugs aren't they.

Women? hate em and want to control their bodies, pay them less money....
Kids? they don't want to feed them, school them, or cover their healthcare...
Elderly? why are they not dead yet, damn moochers...
Vets? thanks for your service now go die in some homeless shelter....

I don't see how it should even be this close anymore. How can anyone who isn't a millionaire vote for.... Oh I forgot, because their preacher tells them to do so.

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