I'd like to congratulate the Democratic Establishment on tonight's victory in NJ

[MannyGoldstein]

Well, given that Christie was endorsed by dozens of prominent "Democrats", and that President Obama wouldn't endorse the Democratic candidate, I'm assuming that this was the result the "Democratic" Establishment wanted.

Well played!

[russspeakeasy]

1. + 100000000000000000000

: banghead :

[lostincalifornia]

2. can you tell me who those prominent Democrats are, or give me a link?

Not trying to be argumentative, but if I am going to write letters to the DNC I need hard facts

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Added to the OP. nt

[lostincalifornia]

7. Thanks Manny

[DonCoquixote]

3. amen

and I hope they all reap the benefits when CC starts selling his soul to beg for Tea Party votes.

[Arugula Latte]

4. It's so disgusting.

And appalling.

And disheartening.

[Divine Discontent]

8. yep. CC's viewpoints and policies go in direct assault of NJ's majority. So, it's sickening to see

him win by 18% or whatever he ends up with.

[sabrina 1]

56. And Buono, the Democrat, received no help from the DNC, who stated their reasons as 'it wouldn't

been practical to spend money against a popular candidate like Christie when it would be better spent somewhere else'. So not worth the effort to try to defeat a Repub.

But I bet they poured money into the Virginia race where apparently the Dem was having a hard time defeating the TBer. And see, when you pour money into a race, it WORKS.

So what is to be concluded from all of this??

THAT is the question!

[JHB]

75. There's something to be said for maintaining party infrastructure

Devoting the resources even in races that look hopeless just to maintain your ability to get people out there, make personal contact, and get out the vote.

But the people who make decisions like this are in a world of political consultants who earn their money off of TV ad buys. "Boots/shoes/sneakers on the ground" takes money away from things that puts money in their pockets.

[sabrina 1]

86. There's also something to be said for having consistent principles and fighting for them.

Here's what I think, we should get rid of all the political consultants, operatives, think tanks and anyone whose interest is MONEY.

I have come to despise the 'political class' to the point now that if I see a candidate who is pushed on the public by obvious operatives, and it's not hard to tell who they are, they are of no interest to me.

Two of the governors who won yesterday, belong in that class. One has D the other an R after their names, one barely squeaked by with the help of the Money People, the R by getting 30% of the Dem vote.

There is far, far too much interference with our electoral system and that is why such a small % of Americans vote at all. I am beginning to understand it.

[rhett o rick]

88. A sort of related question: What can the left do about the "lesser of evils" situations

we always find ourselves in?

I posted this in the Progressives Group. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1269141

[WillyT]

6. Yep...

[Kelvin Mace]

9. Who the Hell endorses a bully like Christie?

Once again, I like to point out that Democrat doesn't mean "liberal", no matter what Fox News claims.

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. Question ...

Would you prefer a Democratic governor, now; or a Democratic House in 2014 and 2016, along with a Democratic President?

[MannyGoldstein]

11. This is a trick question, right?

Why one or the other?

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. Resources ...

money spent on Buono (no matter how much we would like her as Governor) is money unavailable for 2014 races.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. How much does an endorsement cost?

Seriously?

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. Very little ...

in terms of money ... But then, isn't the question, really ... How much does an endorsement really count; but further, how much does an endorsement of a losing candidate cost in terms of resources (i.e., political capital)?

[MannyGoldstein]

21. Integrity.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. okay n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Remember Dr. Dean's losing 50-State Strategy?

Me neither.

We fight for what's right, we win.

We cower and triangulate, we lose.

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. Okay n/t

[CrispyQ]

85. +1! -nt

[Jim Lane]

68. Obama has LOST political capital with this New Jerseyan by not standing up for Buono.

I agree with you that political capital is important. Obama erred early in his presidency by giving away too much to the Republicans. In those instances, as in this one, he lost political capital by creating the perception that he could be pushed around.

This fall's shutdown/debt ceiling fight marked a very welcome change. Obama finally showed he'd had enough. He basically told the Republicans to fuck off. He confronted them head-on, he beat them, and he's more powerful as a result. I hope we see him keep fighting that way for the rest of his term.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. I can understand ...

but I would hazard to guess (based on having tracked the favorability/unfavorability and Obstructionist/Compromising polling through the shut-down) the political capital that he was losing with Democratic partisans, he was gaining with the independent and "semi-sane" republicans that Democrats need to win back the House in 2014 because of the 2010 gerrymandering.

IOW, I think this is a lesson in "When GOTV isn't enough."

I think the political calculus for winning the House in 2014 was/is/has been whether to attempt to grow Democratic support in those mostly white, mostly male, +6-10 (republican) districts (a very expensive endeavor); or to dissuade/split up the non-base vote in those districts (much less expensive).

Now ... I suspect that (and will be proven correct when/if) the Democratic party fields and spends heavy in support of "moderate" Democratic candidates (that have a shot to win those districts) in 2014 ... Likewise, the Democratic Party will spend heavy in House districts with vulnerable Democrats.

[Jim Lane]

83. You've correctly summarized Obama's and the Democratic Party's strategy during his first term.

My objection to that strategy is that it was tried and found wanting. Obama began his term by trying to appear reasonable and to appeal to those "semi-sane" Republicans you mention. This approach, however, meant that he wasn't giving his supporters enough reason to come out and vote Democratic. The falloff in turnout meant that we lost big in 2010. (Yes, those people should have voted anyway, but both major parties have some supporters who aren't very politically oriented and whose appearance at the polls can't be assumed.)

So I have more faith than you do in the GOTV strategy. One can't imagine Obama saying, as FDR did of his right-wing opponents, "I welcome their hatred," but if he had more of that spirit we'd have better electoral results.

For 2014, I would love to see Obama deploy his considerable political skills in a concerted effort to lambaste the Republican obstructionists in Congress. Even the so-called "moderates" in the GOP were complicit in the shutdown and in all other crap that Obama's had to put up with, and they should be called on it. They're all extortionists and he should use that word about them. If that alienates a few "semi-sane" Republicans, so be it -- the gains in turnout on our side would more than offset those losses.

Give 'em hell, Barack!

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. I understand where you're coming from ...

though I disagree on couple of points.

First, I think the first 2 years of President Obama's 1st term was his honest belief that the gop would play by the long established rules and, at least, put forward the appearance of wanting to govern. He learned this was not to be in 2010, when it became clear if he said "up" the modern gop would say "down."

I think where we really disagree is the the reason people stayed home in 2010. The demographics of those that stayed home were the young (and change hopeful); the independants that were tired of the lack of progress and a segment of progressives that wanted to see change, yesterday.

The reality of the political environment had it that there was nothing that President Obama could have offered this cohort, in the face of the modern gop's obstruction ... they wanted to see results ... movement ... It was then, he shifted to the appearance of reasonableness, with the expectation they would continue in their obstruction ... and he was correct.

It was then, President Obama (and his team) charted a different path ... his repeated offering up what the modern gop asked for (along with his "increased revenue" demand) that the poll numbers started working in his (Democrats) favor, despite the media's "It's both party's fault" claims. Democrats may have wanted to hear the FDR quote (though many would have waved it off as "just another pretty speech&quot ; but that was NOT want the American electorate wanted to hear. They/we were not ready to hear it. They/we only were prepared to hear something approaching that when the shut-down and debt ceiling thing hit.

Further, I disagree that there were the resources to flip a gerrymandered +6-8 gop district to Democratic, without first getting a critical mass of the public to see the modern gop for what they ... the Democratic votes just aren't there. The only way to pull the flip would be to get a whole bunch of republicans and republican leaning independants to stay home or vote 3rd party.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

12. What the fuck does that have to do with the OP? n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. A lot. n/t

[sabrina 1]

57. I would prefer both. How about you?

Oh, and btw, how would a Dem winning in NJ prevent a Democratic House in 2014 and 2016? Maybe it's me, but I'm trouble seeing the reasoning here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. Yes ...

I would prefer both; but Resources, i.e., money and political capital spent on Buono (no matter how much we would like her as Governor) is money unavailable for 2014 races.

And a christie governorship going into 2016 allows for a 2 1/2 year micro-screening of christie and denies him 2 1/2 years for him to scrub the memory of his governorship. He has stuff in his governing past and will no doubt provide more.

[sabrina 1]

87. I don't agree with you at all. Buono btw, isn't the only Dem who could have run but too bad Dems

signaled their approval of the Republican giving him 30% of the Dem vote that should have gone to the Democrat. And now people are DEFENDING supporting a Republican???

No wonder half the country doesn't vote. Did you know that the average person doesn't view elections as 'games' to be calculated based on political 'wins' and 'losses'???

This is why I am for eliminating from the electoral system ALL political operatives, think tanks, calculators, and anyone else whose mind isn't totally focused on what is good for the PEOPLE.

These are NOT horse races to decide who in the top 1% can throw the most money at the candidate of their choice. But since it appears that now there are actually people who view our system that way, we have people agreeing with it.

Take all the horse race bettors out of the system, ALL the money, and see what happens. Maybe the half of the country that isn't voting might just do so and the people's will, not the money men, might just begin to prevail.

[rhett o rick]

65. That cant be a serious question. Those arent the only two choices. nm

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. Yes ...

it was a serious question. And while true, that those aren't the only choices, it IS one of the questions to be considered, as resources are limited and important.

[SDjack]

15. Strategic politics by National DEMs? Use Christi as a self-driving wedge to split right-center GOPs

and Tea Party in the campaigns for 2016 candidates. Watching Christi working over the passengers in the clown car will be fun -- provided, of course, after he accomplishes that task, he self destructs. Very demanding work. Maybe Gov. Christi will resign a la Palin and focus on presidential campaign.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. More 11ty-dimensional chess?

The same stuff that has the economy in such great shape?

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

19. Yep,

the same stuff that will allow Chris Christie to portray himself as a moderate in a field of tea partiers when the 2016 primaries get underway.

The Democrats are really playing with fire on this one.

[Chathamization]

61. Christie winning with such a large margin is also useful if he wants to go further

Though honestly, I think in the next few years a lot of that Sandy glow is going to wear off, and the national stage has ground up plenty of media darlings who are comfortable with local politicians.

As for Buono - it looks like Dems were giving up this race before she was even the nominee. The Democratic primary apparently consisted of only two candidates - her and "an aide to the East Orange mayor," the latter of whom managed to get a whopping 12% of the vote.

[scheming daemons]

94. The economy is 100 times better than on Jan 20, 2009

Despite GOP intransigence.

Which you aid every time you attack him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

82. I think you are correct n/t

[joshcryer]

18. Oh Manny, you'd never succeed politically.

Realpolitik sucks.

[liberal_at_heart]

24. if what politics is what it is today who the hell would want to be in it? You lose your soul.

There's a reason Congress and even the President have such low popularity numbers right now.

[JI7]

25. when was it better ?

[liberal_at_heart]

29. Congressional approval ratings have never been lower and although democrats fare better than

republicans the democrats numbers are in the toilet right now too.

[joshcryer]

28. It takes a special type.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Are you insinuating that Senator Warren sold out?

On what did she sell out?

[joshcryer]

33. Nope.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. Then what was the purpose of that picture? nt

[liberal_at_heart]

36. I just hope she is stronger than Obama. Obama looked like a liberal until he started listening to

all those DC insiders, corporate lobbyists, and started compromising with republicans. No more compromising. Reaganomics is destroying this country. We need somebody with enough guts to change it.

[joshcryer]

39. Obama never looked like a liberal.

He was a huge political opportunist.

[JI7]

52. Obama is the same as he has always been, in 2004, in 2008 as candidate

and after he was elected.

[Logical]

26. And your credentials are???

[joshcryer]

31. Armchair political observer.

Yours?

[RobertEarl]

30. I know this is a backhanded slap from you, Manny

But I don't think you realize the national party is pretty damn useless.

If they weren't useless they'd get progressives elected. Good thing they got rid of Dean, eh? Man, that guy knew how to run a party.

Besides, Obama likes Christy. Christy is the only republican Evah! to hold Obama's hand. So let Obama have his love's nest with that Rpublican. Remember, politics makes for strange bedfellows and this one sure is strange!

[Oilwellian]

38. They both share mutual friends on Wall Street n/t

[RobertEarl]

54. I seen them hookers on Wall Street

They do make a fella swoon, eh? All that bling, and the sweet promises of a really good job once you get out of whoring for them in office.

Heard they tried to Tbag Dean. He said no, and that sealed his fate.

[MannyGoldstein]

45. Under Dean, Democrats won the House, the Senate, and the Presidency

Wouldn't it suck if that happened again?

[RobertEarl]

50. See? They went too far.

They had all that responsibility then. These days they don't have to work hard, because they can just cry and claim they got Tbagged, as it all goes to hell.

They be the politicians, and Dean actually made them strong. We all know, strong is what republicans do so we can't do that. Heck, just read a DUer saying that the new Virginia gov. has to be weak, so he can lead. Now that's the spirit.

[geek tragedy]

59. You're giving Howard Dean credit for Obama winning the White House?

The real person who gets credit for 2006 is George W Bush.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

34. I'd rather thank them for taking an actually WINNABLE seat in Virginia

but of course, you see a glass half empty and then throw stones at it and say it was the Dems who broke the glass.


Pretty typical Manny world stuff.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. "Manny world"

Where Democrats endorse Democrats.

Crazy, huh?

"You may say I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one..."

[Pretzel_Warrior]

44. here's an interesting read for you

http://mag.newsweek.com/2013/09/13/barbara-buono-the-ultimate-underdog.html

[MannyGoldstein]

46. Yes, and... ?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

49. it was over before it began. nothing to gain politically for ANYONE to endorse her

you do realize this IS politics, right?

[MannyGoldstein]

51. What did you think of Dr. Dean's 50-State Strategy?

In case you've forgotten who he is, he's the guy wedged between the bus's tail pipe and wheel well.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

53. I thought it was the key to victory in 2006 and 2008.

in 2014, we should go after all 50 states.

[MannyGoldstein]

55. Would Dr. Dean have endorsed Christie?

Or refused to endorse his opponent?

Has any DNC chair had even remotely as winning a record as Dr. Dean?

[scheming daemons]

92. You're joking, right?

The 50 state strategy was about drafting candidates that could win local races based on their political profile. This included many blue dogs that you loathe.

It also included prioritizing money to the places where it could do most good.

Which is why Dr. Dean wouldn't have sent a dime to Buono's campaign.... How do I know this? Because his PAC sent money to McAuliffe and not Buono.


Your bastardized version of the 50 state strategy in your head has no resemblance to the actual one brilliantly done by Howard Dean.

[scheming daemons]

91. That's rich coming from you... The way you constantly bash many Democrats

Including the President

[SidDithers]

72. "Manny World"!...

Perfect!!

Sid

[Oilwellian]

35. Buono calls out Democratic political bosses

http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2013/11/spirited_barbara_buono_concede.html

It sickens me to see the Third Way manipulate one of the bluest states in the nation and encourage Democrats to vote for this grotesque Repuke. I thought New Jersey voters were more savvy.

[TeeYiYi]

47. She's right...

I like Buono. That whole race stinks.

TYY

[TeeYiYi]

37. So, wtf? Dems went to the polls and voted for Christie?...

They must have!

TYY

[Smarmie Doofus]

41. Obama didn't endorse the Democratic candidate? How is that possible? n/t

[Oilwellian]

43. Christie touts 50th Democratic endorsement

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/christie_makes_campaign_announcement_in_burlington_county.html

[Smarmie Doofus]

74. Thanks. But I can't find an answer to my question in the link.

Help me: did President Obama endorse Buono, endorse Christie, or make no endorsement?

[WillyT]

48. HUGE K & R !!!

[geek tragedy]

58. So you're blaming the national party for what 50 local NJ Democrats did?

Ted Cruz-type logic: The only reason Christie won was national Democrats didn't fight hard enough.

[Phlem]

62. No.

He's making light of the logic in NJ, that is all.

It's not that deep.

Take a breath.

-p

[MannyGoldstein]

63. The NJ Democrats went rogue?

Perhaps they misunderstood Obama's refusal to endorse Buono? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it, too?

[geek tragedy]

64. And I thought only Teabaggers

blamed every bad thing on Obama.

But then I learned there are crazy leftwingers who literally believe that economic improvement is impossible until we get rid of Obama.

And who blame local politics on him.

So, we all have our misunderstandings.

[Oilwellian]

67. Please, do enlighten us

Where can one find Obama's endorsement of Buono on the internets? Thanks in advance!

[scheming daemons]

93. You can't stand Obama, and you consider him a negative... Yet you are upset he didn't endorse?

Bottom line is that it is bad politically for a President to endorse a lost cause.

He didn't endorse Christie. He didn't endorse anyone. It was a race that was only going to go one way, so it would have been politically stupid for him to step into it.

You're smart enough to know that.... Which makes you even more disingenuous.

[Phlem]

60. Manny your killing me!

I don't know WTF. Is there something in the water?? I hope it's just an isolated incident.

Seriously! Is there an air born toxin? Do brain cell's fire in reverse?...

Next on the Twilight Zone.

-p

[Zorra]

66. Scumsucking centrist traitors. Reagan "Democrats" sell us out again. nt

[DLevine]

69. Nothing surprises me anymore. nt

[RandiFan1290]

70. Aww relax

Everyone knows the government runs better when the publicons are in charge and the "democrats" are subservient.

Keep buying tickets to the game!!

[SidDithers]

71. ...

Sid

[xchrom]

73. !

indeed.

[99Forever]

76. Color me, unsurprised.

It's what Turd Way corporate asskissers do.

[Nye Bevan]

78. And Democrats don't come much more prominent than the Mayor of Palmyra (nt)

[JoePhilly]

80. Some one knows very little about NJ politics.

At least not as much as he thinks he does.

But its not surprising that person would blame Democrats for Christie's win.

However, if you feel the need to blame some one, blame Sandy.

[B Calm]

84. They'll be writing a new book "What's The Matter With New Jersey?"

[boston bean]

90. It's the lefty liberal bases fault!

They might as well have voted for Nader.