Cannabis. Can We Talk Openly DU?

[chknltl]

Slowly slowly slowly prohibition is being repealed. Eventually it will be legal to smoke it, to have it, to grow it and to distribute it. The hows, whys, where-fors and regulations of this topic are still up in the air though. I would like to propose that DU start a new forum "All Things Cannabis"

So why would this topic be worthy of its own forum here at DU?

Economics on both a micro and nationwide scale are in play regarding cannabis products. This topic alone would generate an interesting sub-forum that I predict will see a worthy amount of activity here at DU.

The political struggle for legalization will generate its own interest here.

Growers tips and recipes will generate further threads within the forum.

If the notion of DU members discussing doing illegal things makes this forum a non-starter, may I suggest there are ways around this. The Forum would have topic specific rules: No self incriminating admission of law breaking would be the most important rule. If the DUer lives in a state where growing pot is illegal then that DUer would not be allowed to discuss his or her personal grow operation. Instead that DUer would refer to it as 'a friends' grow op-the 'friend' referred to residing in a state where growing is regulated and legal.

Well there is my pitch for the All Things Cannabis forum, what are your thoughts? Has the time arrived yet, can we, should we do this?

[CK_John]

1. Reminds me of the drunk whose excuse is "all my friends drink". In an era of no smoking

who really gives a shit

[Bennyboy]

2. Good idea....

I try to keep the stories coming....

[Laelth]

3. Personally, I like GD for all major discussions.

Important topics sometimes get buried in "issue" forums.



-Laelth

[Scuba]

5. Bingo. I think this should be a platform plank next year, don't want to see it relegated.

[tavalon]

24. We're you here back before we didn't relegate it to another forum?

Half of us gave up even coming over here during the primaries. It's an ugly time, and I think it deserves it own "dungeon" in which the rabidly infected can destroy everything in site without clogging up the main discussion forum.

I've suffered, yes, suffered through three primary wars here during my tenure. It's the only time that I'm positive that human rabies not only exists but becomes rampant.

[Scuba]

25. Huh? You think those who advocate sane policy are "rabidly infected"?

[Jesus Malverde]

28. If I can decode your post...

You have been here for three primaries.

During those primaries things often became so rabid you were no longer here.

Primaries are ugly.

Primaries lead to illness, where people become infected.

Those infected people need to be quarantined in a sub forum so that the primary discussion you quit reading can continue.

Humans can be infected rabies.

Because cannabis...Thats the part I'm not getting.

[tavalon]

40. I get you

My response was to Scuba who wanted primaries to not be delegated to their own forum. It was a side point to the cannabis and in fact, had nothing to do with what I was saying to scuba.

I care not one whit where cannabis gets discussed. It will get more action here in GD, but I'm not sure we can really go there until the long process of it becoming legal throughout our country becomes a reality. There are too many legalities that could get DU into trouble, I think.

[tavalon]

41. I'm sorry, I misread what you said

I thought you wanted primaries to remain in GD on DU, which is what I was disagreeing with. Sorry.

[Jesus Malverde]

6. I like to see good cannabis news in LBN.

Last tuesday was another great day for the cannabis freedom movement.

[chknltl]

7. You seem to know a bit....

...so let me pick your brain.

Is it true that the Washington State cottage industry pot growers are going to have to compete with the Golden Triangle growers of California who seek to inundate our Green Cross stores with their product?

[Jesus Malverde]

10. You keep asking.

The obvious answer is that supply will meet demand as it already does. It's unlikely that people who didn't previously smoke cannabis suddenly do, so it's unlikely the demand will change that much. The only thing that is changing is that sales that were previously black market or medical are now totally legal.

I'm sure overtime Washington state will control the production of cannibis well enough to take care of their own legal market.

[chknltl]

13. Not concerned with current demand but supply is a concern.

Demand here is currently insatiable for prime bud. My friend's products were just tested and the shops are screaming for it! http://analytical360.com/m/flowers/134383 . That said, he is but one of countless thousands who are a part of Washington State's cottage industry growers. That industry is NOT a drop in the bucket to this state's economy.

As it is, our prices have dropped in half over the past two years. Those who once made an OK living as growers find themselves turning to the food stamp program in order to keep food on the table. Should out of state growers, especially the California Golden Triangle growers flood our delicate market, the result could be devastating to our local cottage industry with a further negative hit to our state in that Washington inner state circulating "Pot-Dollars" will flow out of state. This is a double whammy to our state.

This particular conversation should not be so much over demand but over supply and where that supply comes from.

[Jesus Malverde]

14. The cottage industry is a creature of prohibition

Cannabis and hemp will be grown industrially and the price will be so cheap it will be used as a source of fuel. Growers and others that rely on the black market need to join the mainstream and transition to other jobs.

I don't personally think the emerald triangle is particularly perfect for growing cannabis. It's only grown there because of it's remoteness and hippy history. Cannabis should ideally be grown where it belongs, in California's central valley. Industrial scale production is the future. Cottage growers will go away, master growers and specific strains is where the value will come from in the future.

It grows like a weed...

[chknltl]

16. Yes, they are a product of prohibition however

we the people need not follow the path that was followed after alcohol prohibition. The benefits to the state to maintain this cottage industry outweighs the benefits it would receive from a major out of state corporation taking over. I think it is time to start a campaign among the green cross stores by bringing this discussion to their attention.

[nomorenomore08]

18. Just think of how many small breweries, and even home brewers, there are nowadays.

I don't see why people wouldn't do the same with legal cannabis.

[Jesus Malverde]

20. There will be room for them but they will need to manage economies of scale.

Many small growers are only in business because they get paid relatively well for their efforts. Part of that is through not paying taxes.

Currently approximately 1/5 of the money from sales goes to trimmers. Managing those types of costs is what makes winners and losers.

[kentuck]

22. Good seeds are a hot commodity.

[nomorenomore08]

23. I was thinking more of "growing your own" than doing it for profit. But otherwise you're right.

[chknltl]

37. Taxes???

I am unaware of even a single grower who started out in the business because he or she was unwilling to pay taxes. The reason they did not was because it was not prudent to pay those taxes when operating illegal. Can you imagine the discussion with the IRS, "Um so you want to give us this money for taxes....and exactly what did you do to acquire this money?" Now with prices plummeting they would be hard pressed again to pay those taxes.

On the topic of taxes for the mom and pops, something equitable SHOULD be worked out. The bottom line is to keep the cottage industry in our state vibrant. This way they make money here and spend it here. This is a better solution for the citizens of Washington than letting out of state big agri-business take over.

Think about it, many of those in this cottage industry paid our dues in that they remained underground, fearful that they would be busted or robbed. Most of them made less than a modest living, most rented homes fearful that a bust could take everything they owned. I liken it to being a Jew in NAZI Germany in that you could not trust any but a precious few with your secret. Those who lasted through the decades have little but battle scars to show for their efforts....and now you suggest that their future is to be put out of business by out of state big agri-corps? Oh well, maybe they can get jobs at Wall Mart-that is if Wall Mart isn't too particular about our resumes.


Personally
I think BC should keep its weed in BC and Cali should keep its weed in Cali. I would like to see legislation to support local cottage industry growers here in my state.

[Jesus Malverde]

4. The drug policy group has no hosts and little traffic you might want to start there..

otherwise how about The Hemp Cannabis group. Your proposing speech rights based on states people live is a non starter. Alert it if your concerned and let the jury decide. The majority of Americans support cannabis and I'm sure that carries over to DU juries.

I'm amazed at the torrent of cannabis and hemp related good news myself.

Peace

[rdharma]

26. Good suggestion......

I was unaware of that group.

[fredamae]

8. Where-ever the conversation happens?

It needs to be had. The "excuse for continuity and disguise of racism" is one of the biggest rip-offs for the tax payers in history-"Its For The Kids! It's For Public Safety". Just since Nixon its cost us countless lives, over $2 Trillion, overburdening our social services, ruining families, kids futures, filling prisons.

We get zero return as taxpayers for allowing our government to continue to fund the WoD's over expanding education, treatment and developing a comprehensive harm reduction/education program.

Turns out when people aren't lied to and are factually informed-we make different decisions about what we put in our bodies.

Take a look at the successes of Anti-Tobacco campaigns - look at the falling social acceptance and look at the different choices kids started making when they were told the absolute truth and then allowed to make their own informed decisions.

Current corporate treatment programs, imo, in many ways are designed to fail so the revolving door keeps spinning..for profit.

[Ohio Joe]

9. I do all the time

I'm a red card holder here in CO (medical marijuana) and have often spoken about it. When I'm home, I am usually very stoned, no mistake about it. You should check out the Drug Policy Group for some discussion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1170

I talk a good bit about my use in my game reviews in the Gaming Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1211

[Uncle Joe]

11. Cannabis laws are most certainly General Discussion material, it covers a broad spectrum

of issues, racism, privacy vs authority, poverty, destruction of the family, enrichment of organized crime and the police state, corruption of government, the immorality of for profit prisons, the medicinal scientific aspects of cannabis, general economics, Constitutional questions and an overall moral issue.

The discussion of Cannabis legalization and the "War on Drugs" shouldn't be relegated to a dungeon but to allow maximum exposure on the General Discussion Forum.

Thanks for the thread, chknltl.

[ThomThom]

12. can we add hemp to that

hemp is making a come back and there are so many products that can be made from it

[Th1onein]

15. I don't think this is a good idea.

Say, you're not the same poster who asked everyone on DU to talk about their pot smoking habits a couple of months back, are you?

[chknltl]

17. No.

[Jesus Malverde]

32. The comment and link about his "friend" upthread is interesting...

The only way to get around ambiguous situations like this is to continue the march of legalization across the country. There is no stopping it..

Peace Th1onein

[madokie]

19. Even though I'm no longer a toker

I'd be all for this.
If it was legal I'd be smoking again.

[kentuck]

21. I think cannabis...

can cause long-term damage to our lungs if it abused. Shotguns and bongs especially.

However, if it is used moderately, for medicinal reasons, or for reasons of meditation or religion, it can be very helpful in a lot of cases.

That completes my study.

[solarhydrocan]

30. Actually cannabis may help prevent lung cancer

Media Ignored Expert's Shocking Findings That Marijuana Helps Prevent Lung Cancer: Now It's Med-School Material

October 24, 2012

You'd think it would have been very big news in the spring of 2005 when Donald Tashkin, a professor of pulmonology at UCLA's David Geffin School of Medicine, revealed at a conference that components of marijuana smoke, although they damage cells in respiratory tissue, somehow prevent them from becoming malignant. But headlines announcing "Pot Doesn't Cause Cancer" did not ensue.

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/media-ignored-experts-shocking-findings-marijuana-helps-prevent-lung-cancer-now-its-med-school

The cancer fighting properties are known to the Government as well:

From the National Cancer Institute:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/patient/page2

Antitumor activity
Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.

A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment...more

a search of "THC Cancer" may prove interesting

[rdharma]

33. There are so many varieties of "edibles" that this is not an issue.

IF legalized.

And there is also "vape". Almost odorless.

[Half-Century Man]

27. I'd like a forum for discussing Cannabis.

I have a bias towards cannabis as a cancer survivor. I have a bias towards cannabis as an ex-user. Our government lies about cannabis and I want to know the truth.

[chknltl]

38. Thank You

Yes, there is ample evidence that our government has lied to us about cannabis. The forum I am proposing could be a fine repository of debunked propaganda and myths.

[Jamaal510]

29. As a person with asthma and as a non-smoker,

I'm 100% for legalization. As long as they don't put the health of others at risk, people should be able to light up and do what they want with their own bodies.

[rdharma]

34. Edibles....... nt

[jberryhill]

31. Can your friend send my friend some seeds?

[rdharma]

35. They sell (Hemp "Cannabis") seeds at the local bulk foods store......

.... here in Mayberry RFD.

[chknltl]

39. Most of my friends use clones not seeds.

There are a variety of seed companies to be found on the internet. I am not clear on current laws regarding moving marijuana seeds across state lines or even of their importation. I suspect it is more than just frowned on. I recall meeting a gentleman who made a bundle mailing feminized seeds from Canada to consumers here in the U.S. Last I heard the U.S. Government sought his extradition, I couldn't tell you how that worked out for him, that was over a decade ago.

That said, seed stock is important. I am aware of far too many strains that fell into the dustbins of history because their growers depended exclusively on clones.

Too much info? Sorry, but no, my friends do not mail seeds.

[Jackpine Radical]

36. SWIM likes it.

[Buddyblazon]

43. Wife and I own a hydroponics store in Colorado.

I'm certainly down. It's not illegal here. I've got no qualms about talking about marijuana openly.