I saw 12 Years a Slave, today.

[chieftain]

It may well be that the US will never be able to move beyond our original sin. The physical brutality exposed in the film is horrendous and unremitting. It hovers over all the relationships portrayed. And it is enabled by the total dominion that the white slave owners hold over their "property". It is that denial of the humanity of the other that is at the heart of racism that is graphically portrayed in this excellent, disturbing movie.

[gopiscrap]

1. thanks I really want to see that!

[chieftain]

2. It is hard to watch,

but it is a powerful story which is acted superbly. The contrast between the humanity of the "property" and the bible toting, quoting "owners" is stark and damning.

[gopiscrap]

3. I bet it's hard...is there a lot of brutality in it?

[chieftain]

4. Yes, there is a lot of physical brutality.

More disturbing to me than the acts of brutality was the deeply ingrained sense of white entitlement which excused the brutal behavior. The liberties that the owners took with the women in their charge is particularly reprehensible.

[gopiscrap]

5. no I agree with you

but I asked about the physical brutality because I want to use the film as a teaching lesson but probably can't because of that.

[chieftain]

7. I guess it depends on the age group. eom

[Doremus]

6. Trailer

[Number23]

8. "It may well be that the US will never be able to move beyond our original sin."

Especially when so many are willing to ignore it completely or even more perversely, refer to its aftermath as The Good Old Days.

[chieftain]

10. Every time I hear the RW say they want "their country" back,

I think it is a desire to return to the days of white entitlement embodied by the proud but anachronistic boast-"I can do what I want, I am free, white and 21".

[Number23]

11. You're absolutely right. But it is by no means only the RW that pine and lament for Those Days.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. Plus 100000

And I'm now on the fence about seeing this. There are a few movies I will never watch again -

Amistad
Schindler's List
Rosewood

Each because they put me in a dark place for a long a time. I'll never get rid of the image of those little kids hiding in a latrine during Schindler's List - or the pregnant woman hanging in Rosewood - or the mother taking her baby over the side of the ship in Amistad. Never ever ever.

But - Based upon my brother's feedback and knowledge of me - he thinks I won't sleep for week if I see it due to the brutality and violence - physical, emotional, spiritual - that takes place in it.

[Number23]

33. Hey baby!!

How are you? I haven't been around much lately so I'm so glad to see you.

You and I go both go to those 'dark places.' I read Schindler's List and knew that I could never, EVER see the movie. I saw Amistad but it didn't traumatize me too much but remember the 'Precious' movie that came out a few years ago? I knew that I could never see that movie. I know it would traumatize me forever.

Hell, I refuse to even see 'Django' and every account I've seen of this movie says it's more cartoonish than anything else. I read The Autobiography of Frederick Douglas as a teenager and was an emotional wreck for weeks. Those of us that are all too familiar with this country's brutality aren't that ones that really need to be seeing this stuff anyway. It's those that have steadfastly ignored or minimized this massive and ongoing chapter of our country's history -- and as I already noted, it's not just those on the RW as evidenced by the number of "Man, I miss the Good Old Days!" posts right here on DU -- that need to have their asses in the seats at the theaters.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Glad to see you too!

We moved the last weekend of October and are under mass renovations in our house right now. Right now the movie The Money Pit would cause trauma to watch! I'm doing dishes in the basement and there is White. Dust. Everywhere. It's in my hair as I type this.

You know who wants to see this? The husband. To his point - he had never heard of something like this happening. He owns the Rosewood DVD - and he knows those horrors - but this? It's new to him.

And Precious - don't see it. I read the book Push and the Producers/Director were very true to the novel. Again - HIM found it ion Netflix. Wouldn't go see Django because my boyfriend Jack is in it. I had my choice between that or seeing Jack in Great Gatsby so chose Jack as Jay! I'll never let go Number23. I'll never let goooooo!

But I can't have images in my brain and emotions in my heart that keep me up at night.

And you are correct - the good old days folks and apologists at DU need to sit their asses down in theaters and realize there was not one single thing that was "good" about the Antebellum South. Not one thing.

[LanternWaste]

35. My best friend feels the same as you re: Schindler's List.

My best friend feels the same as you re: Schindler's List. He loves the movie as a work of art, and believes it goes far beyond a simple expression of cinema in that respect, but refuses to watch it again due to the dark feelings it brings out in him.

On the flip side, I watch it every New Years to celebrate the heights of what humanity can achieve despite the pits from which we must often crawl from to get there.




But yeah... getting to the last fifteen minutes does try my soul.

[KeepItReal]

9. It is a must-see movie

Just well done all around.

[malaise]

12. We're all going Thanksgiving week

siblings, husbands and wives and kids.

[Skidmore]

13. We went to see in Saturday and I wanted to post about the experience

but it was too raw and stays with me still. The brutality and sense of entitlement portrayed in the film has simply gone underground. That is what is frightening about Solomon Northup's story. It still resonates in modern times. It's in the smirk of George Zimmerman, the undisguised hatred from the likes of Craig Cobb, the cynical derision from Ted Cruz and his band of 40 jerks, the twisted logic of the gun cultists who use the Second Amendment as a shield to hide behind in their fear of "the other," and hides behind the hoods of the clan or wears a swastika or looks like the boy or girl next door. It hides behind the words of some of our nation's clergy in their preaching of selectivity for admission to the kingdom.

Following the Civil War, the nation swept the ugliness under the carpet and the Union states and federal government elected to turn a blind eye to sop of Jim Crow laws written in the South and permitted the region to preserve the sense of racial superiority and a kinder gentler form of servitude.

We drove part of the 20 mile drive home in silence. My husband, who is a black man from the Caribbean, reached for my hand after a while and told me that he was glad that we live in the time we do. He's right. It wasn't so long ago that he and I would likely not have been able to become a couple. We look foward to a time when this legacy is less painful to bear.

"12 Years..." should be viewed by all. I recommend it strongly for the great performances and narrative, but most of all for the excrutiatingly unflinching courage it took for Solomon Northup, who had endured so much, to tell his tale to a nation which was at such a different sensibility than we have now. Honor his life and the lives of all who suffered under this horrific injustice by viewing his story.

Northup's biography is no longer in print but Google Books has a copy which can be downloaded for free at:

https://archive.org/details/twelveyearsasla01nortgoog

[chieftain]

14. Well said. eom

[noiretextatique]

15. that these attitudes still exist today

is something that many refuse to accept, and we know precisely why. to acknowledge the brutality and inhumanity of that system, which lasted over 400+ years in its various forms, would mean america needs to address the consequences of that system, namely the lasting impact it had on the victims, and the sense of entitlement engrained in the perpetuators. instead america prefers to pretend the playing field has been leveled and that persistent inequities in society still exist because black people are lazy or inferior. just bring up a discussion of reparations here, and you will see it right here.

[chieftain]

17. Exactly right. eom

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Amen

[Mr Dixon]

32. SMH

Going to see it this weekend.

[ancianita]

16. I hope all whole film sub genre comes out based on the 400+ slave narratives we have. The

American public is too unaware of how brutal and longlasting slavery's effects have been on both southern white culture and African Americans in general. Of course, I know that that many films won't be made, but with even just a few more, I'd call such a film sub genre a kind of reconciliation art toward the healing of this country, a way to mend, if not forgive ourselves and each other, and move forward.

[0rganism]

18. I saw it yesterday...

...and when I got home afterwards, I decided to take a look at what was said about it on IMDB.

Suffice it to say that the amount and degree of self-righteous racism on the message boards there was nothing short of shocking.

And I'd bet money that it's even worse on the yahoo discussion forums.

[chieftain]

19. I went to IMDB after seeing your post.

The early reviews were as you stated. But the tide has definitely turned. The more recent comments are almost all laudatory.

[Starry Messenger]

20. My husband I saw it today too.

Like you, I found the total sense of entitlement from the whites the most horrifying and baffling. It's like a whole culture was run by serial killers. But they considered themselves normal, and that it was their birthright. That they were owed this life. I guess that sense of entitlement still operates today. Such a sickness.

I'll be thinking about the film for a long time.

[HipChick]

21. The trouble with this movie and others like it...

is that it does not show the bigger picture, that blacks are descendants of complex,rich and ancient Black civilization..pyramid builders...complex maths

Their rich history did not start with slavery....

[brush]

29. Bingo!

You are so right.

And one other thing. I've stopped using the word "slave" or "slavery" to refer to that period of US history.

I instead use the term "enslaved" to be clear that human beings were not born slaves, they were "enslaved" by

others who purposely went against the laws of humanity while at the same time justifying their entitlement by

making themselves and others believe that those they enslaved were lessor beings. The word "enslaved" puts the onus on the slavers.

Many of us know better but there are still many out there who "want their country back".

[Skittles]

22. I do not understand why it is in limited release

WTF

[uponit7771]

23. +1

[a kennedy]

24. I don't even think our lily white town of La Crosse, WI will even show it.

Might have to call the theater and see if they plan on showing it.

[malaise]

25. Because they don't want you to see it

It is not even showing in Jamaica - thankfully I am heading to the US and we are all going to see it together.

[LWolf]

26. I went to the movies yesterday.

I let my 13 yo grandson pick the movie, thinking I was going to have to watch "Ender's Game," or the Thor thing. He wanted "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 2," which surprised me. It was over-the-top cheesy, which is appropriate, considering how laced with puns it was. We could relax, laugh, and there was no tension or stress involved whatsoever.

I thought about 12 years a slave on our way to the theater, and rejected it, because I am already completely aware of our original sin, and of the myriad ways that sin evolved into the future. I just didn't want to pay money to endure that pain, like having a sadist digging into wounds. Then I felt guilty for not suggesting it to the grandboy, who really has no idea.

[brush]

30. I understand

I have been a student of African American history for many years and also know of the horrors that happened during the period of enslavement. I also know that much of the horror continued during Reconstruction and share cropping and on and on.

I had a meeting and couldn't go with my family when they went so I went by myself the next day. I watched about 35 minutes of the movie but realized that I didn't want to see anymore of the brutality. The cruelty and entitlement mentality angered me some so I walked out.

My way of a protest but I'm glad I bought the ticket to support the actors and the film maker.

I would like more positive, historical films about the black experience to be made. For instance, there was a post here last week on Bass Reeves, a black lawman during the 1800s who it is said, was the real Lone Ranger.

You may have seen it but here is the link:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/33537/life-and-times-deputy-us-marshal-bass-reeves

There are many stories like Reeves that can be portrayed that may help to dispel, not reenforce the entitlement mentality that these kinds of films subtly perpetuate.

And while were at it, how about a movie on Cesar Chavez, and historical figures of other ethnic groups as well?

America is browning as we speak. Let's get the accomplishments of everyone out there and seem.

[HipChick]

31. I think it would be too brutal for a 13yr old..

but then again I don't have any kids...

[Mira]

36. I am not a person to shield the young.

I have brought mine up with answers to questions - but not with details that were not asked for. Or with explanations to happenings or discussions about history in the same way. Nothing was hidden but nothing was dug up and presented cold. So as they grew they had rudimentary knowledge about people having been enslaved or the horrors of the holocaust, and details and deeper knowledge came with age and self exploration and further questions.

I AM SO GLAD YOU DID NOT TAKE YOUR 13 YEAR OLD to see this movie. He is too young.
Especially if he has not had any preparation. I can speak about it because I saw it 3 days ago, and I read the book last year. I was prepared and scared to see it, and am scarred by the experience.
The film shows the brutality of one group of people treating another as possessions and chattel and the blood/beatings/rapes are not for one that young to see.

Just my opinion.

My grandson, who is in college, asked me the other day if I would please sit down with him and watch Schindler's list. He says he thinks he is ready to see it, and wants me to have lots of time to pause it and talk if necessary.
To me, that was a good thing. We will do it soon.

I'm also cutting out reviews and opinions about 12 years a slave and giving them to him, along with my opinion that he needs to be really strong to see it, and chose his companions well.

[chieftain]

34. I can't stop thinking about the casual cruelty that was on display in the film

The incidents keep weighing on my mind: things that I knew like the separation of families and things that were less relationship shattering but turned what would otherwise be mundane interactions into acts of pure hatred on the part of the whites toward their enslaved. I have always thought that at the heart of the situation was the refusal by the whites to recognize the blacks basic humanity. On seeing this, I can only conclude that it is worse than that.
The owners of the enslaved treated their animals better than they treated their human property. They treated the basis of their wealth with hate, contempt, petty spite and sexual jealousy. I can only wonder about how human beings can be so twisted. I can only wonder how much of these attitudes are with us still.


BTW thanks to brush for the recommendation of using enslaved. Great point.

[noiretextatique]

38. casual cruelty

is a great phrase that describes the culture, not just individuals. a part of american dissonance on the issue of slavery and jim crow and racism is that is was perpetrated by individuals, and only individuals benefited, which is not true. white skin was an advantage that accrued to everyone with white skin, at least to some extent. likewise, the entire society benefited for centuries of unpaid labor. more than a few individuals benefited from racist violence in places like tulsa and rosewood, by stealing the land, businesses and wealth of black people who had no recourse in the legal system. the tulsa survivors never got a dime...so much for the argument that only living victims deserve compensation. i think about what happened to that land and the wealth it has been producing; i think about the racist mob who ran my great grandparents off their land: what happened to that land? how much wealth was stolen from african-americans, and who has continued to benefit from the original theft? what might my family's life have been if we had retained my great grandparents land? post-racial america, my ass