A Former Cop Explains How To Avoid Getting Arrested

[ZombieHorde]

Dale Carson is a defense attorney in Jacksonville, Florida, as well as an alumnus of the Miami-Dade Police Department and the FBI. So he knows a thing or two about how cops determine who to hassle, and what all of us can do to not be one of those people.

Carson has distilled his tips into a book titled "Arrest-Proof Yourself," now in its second edition. It is a legitimately scary book — 369 pages of insight on the many ways police officers profile and harass the people on their beat in an effort to rack up as many arrests as possible.

"Law enforcement officers now are part of the revenue-gathering system," Carson tells me in a phone interview. "The ranks of cops are young and competitive, they’re in competition with one another and intra-departmentally. It becomes a game. Policing isn’t about keeping streets safe, it’s about statistical success. The question for them is, 'Who can put the most people in jail?'"

Which would make the question for you and me, "How can we stay out of jail?" Carson's book does a pretty good job of explaining — in frank language — how to beat a system that's increasingly predatory.

Some tips at the link: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/11/ex-cops-guide-not-getting-arrested/7491/#ixzz2ka9gPUgS

A disturbing article.

[loli phabay]

1. i would sat true in some jurisdictions, rather less in rural counties

[niyad]

2. be boring, don't do anything to attract attention, and don't go out after dark??? really? wow.

[ZombieHorde]

3. Yeah, those are some of the suggestions.

Cops are scary people.

[Th1onein]

4. Sorry, not going to follow this advice.

Every interaction with a police officer entails two contests: One for "psychological dominance" and one for "custody of your body." Carson advises giving in on the first contest in order to win the second. Is that belittling? Of course. "Being questioned by police is insulting," Carson writes. "It is, however, less insulting than being arrested. What I'm advising you to do when questioned by police is pocket the insult. This is difficult and emotionally painful."

You guys are welcome to follow this particular advice. I won't. I was taught not to give in to bullies, and I won't start now.

[Dawson Leery]

5. Speaking of bullies:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/pba-boss-patrick-lynch-defense-ticket-fixing-culture-hurts-nypd-grassroots-recall-effort-article-1.971369

The NYC PBA is run by one.

[LooseWilly]

6. Hehe... wow. You've never had to deal with the police before, have you?

My pockets are full of shit.

My old checkbooks have a number of receipts from when I was younger, and paid for a small spot of "self-respect" with various and sundry fines. If I were black, I'd probably have a record to go with those stubs... and if I weren't in a work vehicle the purple dreadlocks probably would've had the same result despite being only mildly brown.

Good luck with your tough guy bit... hope you know a good lawyer.

[Th1onein]

21. I've dealt with plenty of them.

I know my rights and I know how to express the fact that I know them. When you do that, they back down. Bullies want you to be afraid of them. I'm not afraid.

And, by the way, I'm a woman. I don't act like a "tough guy." What I do act like, though, is an educated person who knows her rights and who is willing to stand up for them.

This is the way I look at it--I might spend a day or a night in jail, but when I get out, I will dog that cop's trail, and if I can, I will have his job. At the very least, I will pack his personnel file with quite a few negative letters. He has a lot more to lose than I do. It's his career; it's only a very temporary loss of freedom for me.

[Bonobo]

47. THAT is one of the privileges of being a woman.

As a man, you face something different with a cop ( a male one anyway). His ego and his struggle to dominate.

[bettyellen]

75. you weren't aware that lots of men are very comfortable dominating women?

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:17 PM - Edit history (2)

Many are MORE comfortable pulling that shit on women than they'd ever be with man.
You're kidding yourself if you think it's a privlege that a few sleazy skirt chasers give the prettiest girls a pass sometimes. Most cops do not give a crap how pretty you are- you must be watching too much TV, because that's the only place I have seen that happen!
If you'd ever read any studies- good looking and tall MEN fare best of all- they are likelier to get out of parking tickets or get a great job, than an average looking women is. Stop kidding yourself that all women get these perks, because you are forgetting that most of us, are by definition, average, and get no perks because of that. It seems like you yourself forget we even exist!!

[Th1onein]

89. I don't think he's talking about that, bettyellen.

I think he's talking about a kind of male muscle-match, you know?

[bettyellen]

109. a muscle match is something stupid a person chooses to do. has nothing to do with

women getting special treatment.

[Th1onein]

112. EXACTLY my point.

[Th1onein]

88. I agree with you.

But, you know something? We should not have to deal with their ego, or their struggle to dominate. That's their own personal problem and shouldn't be a part of their job. They work for US.

I know that's not the way it is. I'm a realistic. But we must struggle to MAKE it that way, because these are OUR rights, and if we LET them take them from us, we only have ourselves to blame.

The first thing that we need to do is educate people. NOT cower and tremble, and literally $hit our pants.

[tavalon]

85. I hope you are a white woman

Not dating a black man. And lastly, I hope you are a nurse and you display your badge prominently. It's not right that police have become dangerous predators but it is true that they have.

I shattered my shoulder less than a year ago. I can't handle cuffs. I will debase myself. And I don't try to get arrested at activist venues right now. I want my shoulder fully healed.

I was once described as the person least likely to bow to authority. I was. Reality seeps in slowly.

[Th1onein]

90. I'm white, and my "significant other" is black.

Maybe you can't do it, but I can. I WILL stand up to them, because I simply cannot do otherwise. It's just not in me. And, for everyone like me, who is willing to stand up for their rights, there are others whose rights will be respected BECAUSE we stood up for ours. You fight your battle, not just for yourself, but for those who come after you.

[tavalon]

94. I lived in Texas for way too many years (about 20)

and actually, my black boyfriend and I never took trips out of Austin because sometimes, black men get pulled behind trucks for dating white women. Of course, that was a long time ago - about 10 years as I recollect.

I get what you're saying and I was a firebrand when young, now I just want to stay out of jail. Family duties and the like. Honestly, I'm glad you haven't lost your firebrand sense of indignance about this specific thing.

[Th1onein]

97. I understand. I live in Texas, too.

My mother was worse than I am. She lived that adage, "Have the courage of your convictions."

I've seen her RUN a cop out of her house, literally, because he wouldn't do what she told him to do. (She was having an argument with the neighbors about some property that she thought they had taken out of her yard and she wanted him to go over to their house and GET it back for her.)

I was actually in her house the morning that cop came looking for my daughter for unpaid traffic tickets, and she had just died. I could almost "feel" her there with me, urging me on. She was hell on wheels and I hope one day to have just an ounce of the courage that she lived her life by.

[demwing]

103. That's not reality come seeping in

it's fear.

But fear only exists inside of our minds. No one can point to fear, or touch it. It does not physically exist. It resides only in our thoughts.

How can something so impalpable be mistaken for reality?

[GreenStormCloud]

111. Fear is an appropriate response to a harsh reality. N/T

[Th1onein]

113. It's appropriate and it's natural, AND it's what they want.

Fear is what keeps us huddled in our homes, and not out on the streets, screaming for what is due us; what we work for; what we deserve. Fear is what they want, and as you can see by the responses on this thread, alone, for many people, it works. It keeps them quiet, and docile, and unable/unwilling to stand up for their rights.

The lessons of history, of those who stood and fought for our rights, don't promise us that we will not be injured, or even killed, if we fight. It is the choice that you make, the chance that you take, for your freedom. Where, how, and when you compromise, is what defines you.

[GreenStormCloud]

114. I have never had any difficulties with LEOs.

I have gotten a few traffic tickets, that's all.

[Th1onein]

115. I HAVE. I was a food stamp mother and lived in a trailer. I was dirt poor.

I was profiled as a poor person, and where I"m from, that's not a good thing to be.

[Nye Bevan]

8. There's a word for people who refuse to take any shit from cops.

"Arrestees".

[1000words]

15. Not always:

[Heather MC]

20. Video EVERYTHING

See he admitted I started following you because you were driving while black on Cox RD
that's basically what his saying.

There is another Cop Video where they say, Oh we stop you because you fit the discription of a robbery suspect.

LAME

[Th1onein]

25. Yep, you see the bully back down?

That's what happens when you confront a bully.

We can't continue to crawl for these Nazi fascists. That's what they want; that's what gives them power.

You are not going to keep your rights unless you exercise them.

[1000words]

31. Indeed.

I have found that as long as you are calm, articulate and confidently express knowledge of your rights, addressing the police is reduced to a minor inconvenience.

[Mariana]

82. I never get tired of watching that vid! nt.

[aptal]

108. Racist Police in the south... Nothing to see here...

[pipi_k]

14. Sounds a bit like

someone visiting the zoo, and, seeing a sign outside the tiger enclosure telling people to stay away from the fence, do not climb, etc., says...

"Fuck that shit! Nobody's gonna tell ME what to do!"

And so he decides he'll climb up over the fence, loses his grip, and falls into the pit, where he's mauled to death by the tigers.

He had fair warning, but chose to ignore it.

Now he's a statistic.

People who ignore advice usually end up as statistics.

Oh well.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Cops tend to operate on what Leary coined the "Anal-Territorial Circuit"

While swallowing a certain amount of bs may be distasteful, provoking a confrontation over something meaningless is probably a worse idea.

[On the Road]

40. "I was taught not to give in to bullies"

Sounds like everty outraged redneck with a police record.

[Th1onein]

91. Not a redneck, but outraged is a good description. Thanks for the putdown.

You know something? There were people, all down through history, who fought for your rights. Some of them lost their lives, fighting for your rights. I have respect for that.

I have enough respect for that that I will not lie down and let some bully who is supposed to WORK for ME, run over me. I'm not going to cower, I'm not going to soil my pants. I'm going to stand up for myself, and my rights. So should you.

What you shouldn't be doing is calling someone who has the decency to stand up for their rights an "outraged redneck."

Shame.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

43. Hahaha..the toughest talkers always pee their pants in fear

When actually confronted. I can just imagine how you'd react to a couple of police officers with guns drawn trying to question you about why you are in that particular location.

[damnedifIknow]

65. Part of the problem

Cops and fear should not be synonymous in this country.

[Th1onein]

92. You don't know me.

I don't "talk tough." I actually act on my beliefs.

I'm not a young black man, though. And I understand that being a middle-aged white woman puts me in a totally different position in confrontations with cops, because of that. I can't say what I would do if our places were switched. But they aren't.

I don't deserve your insult, Pretzel_Warrior. It's sad that you would think it necessary to indulge in it.

[demwing]

52. First it's "better questioned than arrested"

Then it's "better arrested than beaten" then it's "better beaten than shot".

Once we start the slide into fearful subservience, where the hell does it end?

[Th1onein]

93. Absolutely, demwing.

And anyone who would counsel you to begin the slide doesn't have your best interests at heart.

[Blue_Tires]

66. Yeah, I'm just going to have to file your post under:

"Things white folks can say..."

[Lizzie Poppet]

79. While I too was taught not to give in to bullies...

...I was also taught to choose my battles wisely. In most encounters, the cop's holding all the cards. Causing the encounter to become more confrontational than it already is by insulting them has no payoff, save perhaps for a modest twinge of satisfaction. Not worth the downside... Have your revenge in court, if it comes to that.

[Th1onein]

95. Yes, choose your battles wisely.

But if that cop is allowed to run, unchallenged, over your rights, you've just lost a pretty important battle.

I'm not saying you have to insult the cop. Not unless he deserves it. But you have the right to do that. People have fought for that right for themselves, and for you.

You can't just stand up for your rights when it's convenient for you. You have to be vigilant, or you'll wake up one day with no rights.

[Lizzie Poppet]

104. Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

If a cop is indeed violating my rights, I will certainly point that out and insist that it cease.* I just prefer to do so in as civil a manner as I can manage because I find that doing so tends to have a better chance of the outcome I want: my rights (and person) intact.

I suppose part of that preference is my admittedly arrogant assumption that I'm better at the "make the other person behave the way you want them to" game than the cop is. I'm generally confident that I can push the right buttons and having the cop mentally place me in the "upstanding(ish) citizen that I'm here to protect - or at least not fuck with" category, and not in the "vile criminal scum that it's my job to make miserable" category. The worst I've ever had that turn out has been a categorization along the lines of "reasonably upstanding citizen who made a mistake...here's your traffic ticket."

Then again, I'm a small, nonthreatening-looking (albeit more than a little goth-y) white female. Not the sort of person who triggers that Cartman-style "respect mah authoritay!" thing that a lot of cops have...

* Of course, if that insistence is for naught, then I'd have a decision to make: comply or escalate my resistance beyond simple objections. That's a purely situational call, of course.

[Th1onein]

105. I don't think it's always cut and dried, what they try to do.

Cops try to take advantage of your ignorance. Just like every other bully, they attack those that they perceive as helpless. And, like others have said here, their primary purpose nowadays is to generate revenue.

A friend of mine had a truck stolen. It wasn't stolen in the normal way, but instead, the guy had done a fake wire transfer that had initially shown up in my friend's bank account, and then been cancelled after the truck was in the thief's hands. My friend went to the police station and tried to file a police report on his stolen vehicle. He needed to do this because his insurance wouldn't cover the loss without a police report. Guess what happened? The cops told him that it was a "civil matter" and they wouldn't take the report. So, a crook cheats a man out of his vehicle with a fake wire transfer and it's a "civil matter"? Yeah, right.

My friend comes to me, his eyes wide, face white, frantic. He's never been faced with this situation before, and he's a real charming guy. Can't understand why the cops won't take a report. I suggest we go to the city police (as opposed to the county) and file a report, but first, I make him stop at a Radio Shack and I buy a small digital recorder (looked like a cell phone). He scoffs at that, thinks it's not necessary.

So, we go to the police station, he tells the cop his story, and the cop says that it's the wrong jurisdiction, because the bank where the wire went through was in the next city over. So, I ask him, are you saying that the bank has to file a report? Yeah, he says. But, of course, I said, the bank won't file a report, because they didn't lose anything. He nods. So, I ask him, right out, bluntly, "Are you refusing to take a report on this man's stolen vehicle?" Yes, he says, he is. It's just too bad, tough shit.

So, I pull out my little recorder and show it to him, and tell him I've got him on tape violating this man's Fourteenth Amendment rights, and this is a federal case, and we're filing on him. You know what he says to me? He says, "You can't use that in court because I didn't know you were recording me." He didn't give a shit that he was abusing this man's rights, not doing his job, and just flaunting it in front of us. All he cared about was the lawsuit that we would file.

I told him, of course, that in Texas, he doesn't have to be aware that we're taping him; that's the law. He tells us to stay right there, he's going to talk to his sergeant. A few minutes later his sergeant comes out, shooting daggers at me with her eyes, and they sit down and take a report.

That very afternoon, they found the truck, but they wouldn't have bothered to look for it if we hadn't forced them to do their jobs.

You think I just had a bright idea to buy a new little tape recorder that day? Nope. My old one was loaned out, and I knew I'd need one, for this very reason. Because that's how these PUBLIC SERVANTS operate, every day, in every city of this nation. They are supposed to work for US, but they don't. Instead, they are nothing more than predators. If you give them anymore credit than that, you're a fool.

Someday, maybe, if we work hard enough at it, they will be something, again, that we can respect, and rely on. But today? No.

[uponit7771]

110. LOFL!! I'm 6'5" 257 and black, if I don't "pocket the insult" I increase my chance of dying by

... 30 - 40% conservatively.

I've seen it happen MANY MANY times before; sKeery ass'd UNPROFESSIONAL cop, big [other], cop reacts negatively, something negative happens to big [other]

[Ghost in the Machine]

7. Former Cop??? How about "Current Moron with *severely diminished capacities"???

And if that doesn't work? It's debasement time. Start with crying. Bawl hard while begging for a notice (the option here is a notice or jail, not notice/jail or getting off scot free). "Don't waste time worrying about what your friends will think," Carson says. "If they're with you, they're getting arrested too." If they're not with you, they won't know.

If crying fails, and you're willing to do whatever it takes to not go to jail, Carson advises you to "foul yourself so that the police will consider setting you free in order not to get their cruiser nasty." Vomit on your clothes. Defecate and urinate in your pants. Then let the officers know what you've done. If they arrest you anyway, you'll get cleaned and reclothed at the jail.

This clown needs to be locked up in a rubber room somewhere. He should also be charged with fraud and be forced to buy back every book he ever sold.

Seriously... where's the hidden link to the Onion???

Ghost

[Nye Bevan]

10. Yeah, if any DUer has firsthand experience of shitting their pants to avoid an arrest,

it would be great if you could tell your story in this thread.

[Ace Acme]

23. I've heard of the technique used as a deterrent to rape nt

[Stryder]

11. Yup.

That's our new secret weapon...
Full compliance at all times.
We got em on the ropes now.

[pokerfan]

13. Ah yes....

AKA the Nugent defense.

[navarth]

28. beat me to it. nt

[ecstatic]

16. wow! I can't cry on demand. My response is usually icy compliance

I can't believe he suggested people should shit on themselves! ? He may have taken the badge off, but he's still an asshole!

[defacto7]

35. Yeah, I'll be sure to save up my shit and vomit

so I can spew it at a time when it's most needed. Sure.

[Stryder]

9. Yes sir, no sir,

Three bags full sir, what color would you like?
A compliant citizenry. That's the point, right?
Step outta line the man come and take you away.
But that's where we are.
The DFH's were right.

[1000words]

12. Glad he advises to refuse consent on all searches ...

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:26 AM - Edit history (1)

but his strategies when talking to the police is all wrong.

Don't ever talk to the police. Ever. Law enforcement is trained to get you to implicate yourself, even if you are innocent. They just want the bust and figure the courts will sort it all out. Once you are in the U.S. legal system, you are at risk and will most certainly be poorer.

[FLyellowdog]

18. Interesting (and lengthy) bio here....

http://www.dalecarsonlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83&Itemid=99

[Ikonoklast]

19. Rule Number One: NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE.

There is only one rule, and this is it.

Everything else is secondary.

[X_Digger]

24. .. other than as state law dictates.

In some states, you are required to give your name and address, or present ID, even when not driving..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

[Ikonoklast]

27. And that is where the conversation ends.

"I already gave you all of the information I am legally obliged to give. Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?"

[X_Digger]

55. Two magic statements- "Am I free to go?" and "I do not consent to a search." n/t

[loli phabay]

57. i would also clarify the difference between a search and a pat down

[X_Digger]

58. True, but "I hope you can articulate reasonable suspicion before you touch me" is also good. :) n/t

[loli phabay]

59. yup, its the old doe you have any weapons on you, i am just patting you down for your safety and min

I would hope that there is a reasonanle suspicion if it gets to hands on situation.

[X_Digger]

60. Reasonable Suspicion gets thin with some cops.

I sat on a state grand jury a couple of years ago, and you wouldn't believe some of the shit that some of the cops tried to pull.

"He wouldn't make eye contact." -- no true bill
"She was making furtive movements.." -- no true bill
"He kept looking around." -- no true bill

By the end of my term, me and another juror must have been the most hated people in the room- TX grand juries have the power to ask questions directly of officers and prosecutors. We tore apart about 80% of the cases presented to us, including a few 'slam dunk' ones.

If you ever get the chance, that is one eye-opening experience that every person should participate in.

[Th1onein]

100. Hoo-ah! THERE you go!

I'm trying to teach this to my friend right now, but he can't seem to remember the words. He's black, lives in a white neighborhood and is constantly getting stopped.

[Th1onein]

98. THERE you go.

[Th1onein]

32. You are required to stop and identify yourself, NOT present ID.

I had a cop, plainclothes, a warrant officer, come to my house, looking for my daughter, who had unpaid tickets. I didn't open the door, only raised the blinds on the window of the door, to see who it was. This jerk, who was also driving a plain car, DEMANDS to see my ID after I told him that my daughter didn't live there. Told me that he was going to issue me a citation for failing to produce ID.

I told him to get the hell of of my property, called the county sheriff's office and told them to remove this jerk from my property before I shot him. The county cop comes out, stands on my porch and tells me that the guy is a real cop, wanting to see my ID. I told them BOTH to get off of my property, I don't have to show them a @%@ thing.

Poof. They left. Later, after I had called my daughter at work and told her they were looking for her, and she called them, the warrant officer has the nerve to tell her that her mother was not "cooperative."

I suppose you'd counsel me to show the cop my ID in that situation, when he's coming to MY HOUSE, on MY property, looking for someone who doesn't live there? Or should I have given him the work address for my daughter?

You know, you just got to stand up sometimes. These guys are looking for people to bow down to them. I am NOT going to do it.

[Eleanors38]

45. "remove this jerk from my property before I shoot him." Write your own book.

[loli phabay]

49. it would do well as fiction i think

[X_Digger]

56. I would counsel you to know the laws in your state.

Blanket recommendations that ignore the variations in state law- are not smart.

[Th1onein]

86. I know the laws in my state, and I know the SC decisions regarding these laws.

Also, I am well-versed in the stop and identify state statutes, as well as case law. I've made it my business to know. Cops know this law, too, and they can TELL when YOU know.

[bvar22]

77. "Poof. They left."

Well, I guess that could be one possible outcome.

[Th1onein]

87. That was about fourteen years ago. Now, they'd probably send in SWAT.

And, I don't even own a gun. I'm a pacifist. But I was SO pissed off that they would demand to see my ID when I was in my own house, I couldn't see straight.

Plus, I hadn't had my morning coffee yet.

[TorchTheWitch]

42. I talk to the police all the time

That's how they get to know and like me.

Works just great for me. My local cops like me and look out for me. I'm nice to them. I treat them like human beings rather than suspicious crazies that are just dying to slap cuffs on someone. I take my dog up to the police station a lot because it's also a community center with a skating rink, skateboard park, football field and two baseball diamonds. My dog likes to watch the kids on the skateboards and the BMX bikes, peewee football games and loves to play in the big snow pile behind the skating rink that the big machine scrapes off the rink and dumps there. There's always officers coming and going, and I think by this time we've met them all. Now when I'm out running around the neighborhood with the dog every patrol car that passes we usually get a horn toot and a wave.

I have no reason to be uptight when I see an officer even in the wee hours when I'm usually am out with the dog since I'm a night person. When I was working they knew what time I normally got home from work and kept an eye out for me to make sure I got home and in the house ok since back then parking here was the pits of hell, and I usually had to park the car the farthest away of anyone else what with getting home so late, so it made me feel a lot safer that there was almost always an officer parked on my street at that time making sure I got in the house ok.

Now I know some of them quite well since I've been working with the officer that has the department's one K-9 and sometimes their trainer though when the trainer works with them it's almost always around 5 a.m. I just found out a couple of days ago that the department just got three more dogs except I'm not sure if they've actually arrived yet. Their officer handlers have already been chosen, and I already know one of them, and I think I know one of the others but I'm not sure if I'm fitting the right name to the right face. That'll be fun since none of the new officer handlers have any previous experience working as a K-9 handler, so they're starting out their training with the dogs from scratch. I would guess though that they've already learned I suppose what you'd call the "book learning" stuff since the dogs will live with each officer handler's family for it's whole life, and all of them are very broadly crossed trained... they do all kinds of relevant nosework like search and rescue, cadaver, drugs, certain chemicals used in bomb making, tracking, etc. on top of just the average police dog stuff. As I understand it they've been waiting nearly two years for these three other dogs and are really excited they're finally arriving so I think the officers that were chosen must have been chosen quite some time ago. I also heard that some local woman that's the head of some dog or animal society around here donated the money for all four dogs to have bullet proof dog vests to wear when they're working. I get the impression they're frightfully expensive. Awesome of that woman to donate them like that.

Oh, then there's the story of the cops, the cop hat and the damn possum that they still probably laugh about today. This happened several years ago when I had my previous dog, Boo, so that's who Boo is in the story though he doesn't have much to do with the actual story In the beginning of the post I mentioned an incident at the police station when I first took Yoshi there as a pup and it was the discussion going on of a few cops who stopped to play with Yoshi that somehow the idea came up to take a photo of him wearing a police hat for their break room bulletin board that reminded me of the story of the cops, the cop hat and the damn possum...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=9800846&mesg_id=9801181

[Pretzel_Warrior]

44. Does.Not.Compute! Must avoid police at all times!

Must question their motives at all times! Must serve DU meme that all cops are bad!!

[Ikonoklast]

80. Have a run-in with a bad one. You'll never trust another cop again.

Ever.

[VADem1980]

61. Ughh, I dont know how you can stand to be around them

I would have to shower and burn my clothes with that much exposure.

[TorchTheWitch]

78. and that's exactly your problem

You're convinced that they just HAVE to be horrible nasty people when you've never bothered to actually treat them like the every day regular human beings they are and actually TALK to them to find out what they're like. I haven't met an asshole yet and that's hardly just the ones on my local force. I always treated cops like any other regular Joe/Jane on the street, and to a one they're all very likable people, and just like every other normal every day people some are more likable than others. Just like normal every day regular folks some are hysterically funny, some are really intelligent, some not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box, some that are interested in a lot of the same things I am while others are interested in other things, etc. You know, just like regular ordinary people.

Geez, people like you act like just putting on the uniform to go to work every day makes them some kind of strange alien species when of COURSE they're just regular people though generally nicer and more honorable than most. Guaranteed you've seen and talked to them when off duty and in their regular clothes and it would never once dawn on you that they were police officers, and for heaven's sake, why on earth would it? It's not like they glow with a purple aura or have antenna sprouting out of their heads or say anything even marginally close to "greetings Earthling, take me to your leader." But that's exactly how you perceive them though you never thought to actually treat them like the normal people they are and get to know them.

You can't even see how ridiculous and foolish your post is especially since there's exactly zero sense behind having such a wildly bigoted opinion like that with absolutely nothing whatsoever to point to that it could possibly be anything else other than plain old fashioned embarrassing bigoted idiocy. Had you said the same thing about bank tellers or postmen or hairdressers or any other group of people with a certain job title it would be obvious to even you how totally loony it would be yet there's not one single bit of difference between your having said something as goofball as this about any other person with X as their job title. Really, just how in the world can you say something so unbelievably asinine and utterly fail to even notice that it is and why? I'll tell you what, cops have far and away more guts and integrity than you do for not only doing a job that pays little yet expects so much that every single time they go into work might be the time they never go home again and for also having to put up with a gazillion people just like you with the same lunatic attitude about them just for doing that job. Between the cops and people that have such crazy notions about them based on NOTHING the least bit logical I'd rather hang out with it sure as shit wouldn't be you and all the gazillions like you, and at least between the two of us I actually have a perfectly sound and logical reason for THAT.

Ugh. Now I have to go shower and burn my clothes after being exposed to you and anyone like you that spouts such absurdities and is so embarrassingly incapable of even recognizing that it is. The stupid, it burns yet you can't even tell that it's your own butt that's flaming and smoking... and of course it's your butt since that's the only logical place that something so thoroughly nutso could have been pulled from.

[dreamnightwind]

84. Wow

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)

I edited this a little because I was responding with a lot of anger, which your post brought up, and I wanted to remove that component from my response to hopefully avoid just escalating that anger.

Sure there is a component of cop-citizen relations that is unnecessarily augmented by citizen attitudes. And the post you responded to was perhaps a little harsh (though we don't know that poster's history with the police.)

I applaud you for engaging the police constructively, that gets them more into the mode of being public servants rather than authoritarian enforces.

But your post relies on things that worked well for you. They would also work for some others. We probably do need more of that.

For many people, though, that is not their experience with cops, nor is it their fault that it is not.

There is rampant police abuse in this society. It's especially rough on certain demographics. It's also rough on those whose personalities don't lend themselves to interactions like you describe. It's an epidemic in our society, abuse by the powerful of the powerless.

Your post is based on your experience, with your life context, your social standing and skills, and shows little interest in understanding someone else's. There are legitimate, and very deeply experienced reasons, beyond any fault of police victims, that so many people feel that way. You made no attempt to understand that or allow for it.

Great for you that you have such good relations with the police. For many many people, though, that is not the case, and that circumstance deserves more compassion and understanding than I saw in your post.

That's about as nice as I can be about it.

[laundry_queen]

99. While a good portion of them are reasonable, regular people

my sil is one, and she's one of those reasonable ones. I've met a few of her coworkers, and they've been good too, but she has said she does work with a lot of assholes that are in the force for one reason - bullying and power over others. She says she often has to be very assertive with her own boundaries to keep them in check when she's on patrol with them. She said there are some who are just out of control when it comes to bullying.

And I've met those that are like that - our neighbor was a cop for 30 years or so. He often, after retirement, did shifts at the airport for customs to profile people who came through and decide who would get the hassle from customs officers. His daughter is my friend, his son played hockey with my brother, him and his wife have been casual friends with my parents for YEARS and YEARS, his grandkids are friends with my kids.... my parents were coming back from vacation and saw him, and they said, "Oh hi! Nice to see you!" and he gave them a dirty look. My dad cracked a joke about him being grouchy. He didn't blink, and he pointed my parents out and told customs to search them. My parents were held up for over an hour. He never apologized after, he never said, "haha, gotcha don't bug me when I'm working." Nothing. He knew my parents were insanely square and would never not claim something. It was like he was pissed that they were talking to him like a person, he wanted to be revered. Apparently, other people in town (rich town, everyone vacations often and we live very near the airport) have had the same experience with him after saying hi to him at the airport. Having known him, I know he's a total asshole IRL and bullies his kids so it's not surprising he has a job where he can bully people. In any case, my parents never forgave him and rarely talk to him now. The last time I went to one of the grandkids' birthday parties and he was there, the crap that came out of his mouth was obscene. So, not all cops are good people. Sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between the good ones and the not-so-good ones. It seems that law enforcement attracts many people who are abusive bullies - apparently many sociopaths enjoy jobs where it is legal for them to harass and bully people and law enforcement jobs are right up there for dysfunctional people. I know from my SIL that they do extensive psychological testing before letting them in the force in her department, but not all police departments are like that. It's not ridiculous for people to be cautious when dealing with the cops until they understand which type of cop they are dealing with. Trying to be friendly with one of the sociopaths will likely get you arrested.

[treestar]

102. +1 you don't have to

way too many fail to stand up for themselves. They do as they are told, and it ends up in a conviction An unnecessary one. If you have a public defender and they tell you to plead or you'll go to jail, stand up for yourself and demand a trial! If you think you didn't do it, go to trial. How many people I see who pleaded to something they didn't do since the PD said if they didn't they'd go to jail - I'd be a zillionnare if I had $10 for each time I've heard that.

[blkmusclmachine]

26. ,

,

[villager]

29. ""Law enforcement officers now are part of the revenue-gathering system,"

Yup.

Their job is about two things: Protecting the banks (as it were), and now, "revenue enhancement."

If they wind up actually protecting someone, somewhere, somehow, along the way, that is strictly secondary.

[Th1onein]

33. Absolutely. They deserve no respect.

They've already blown that. Respect has to be earned. Any respect I had for them is long gone.

[reddread]

63. plenty of work in their third field of expertise

extrajudicial killing.
the number one reason to avoid police problems is not getting shot to death.
Stand up for your rights whenever they are trampled or threatened.
Not doing so has brought us right here, right now.
After seeing the armies unleashed in NY at the RNC
there isnt any sight they can muster that will make me do more than laugh.
How I didnt get arrested for standing up to the gang of police kneeing bicyclists in the back
or cussing out their surveillance officers in front of hostel the while drunk off my ass
was purely a miracle.
Im thankful I didnt get to spend days in a chemical infested warehouse like the hundreds
who made the big mistake of obeying the commands of police officers.

Think twice before committing to subservience.
they used to call people good Germans for that.
Now good Germans are better than we will ever be able to claim.

[flamingdem]

30. Does the book give instructions

about how to poop upon oneself on command?

A good skill to have it seems.

[defacto7]

36. Save just a bit every time...

never completely evacuate. You have to save up the "in case of arrest" packet. Never be unprepared for arrest!

[flamingdem]

39. To add to the packet start the day with a sumptuous plate of fiber rich foods

Come to think of it a burrito could be a real turn off, hmm.

[flvegan]

34. LOL, a defense attorney on "how to not get arrested" is just fail.

How about "How to Not Get Fucking Convicted" you idiot.

"Arrest-Proof" is only one thing: Wear blue and red and come from Krypton. Or have the last name of Bush or Cheney.

[rug]

37. I was able to turn two parking tickets into two arrests for harassing a police officer.

The first was dismissed and I was acquitted on the second.

Many of them use the fear of arrest to pull some awful bullshit.

[yellowcanine]

73. Take the tickets. Contest them in court.

Generally a police officer is not going to tear up a ticket - they may not even be able to. But if you are respectful they just might decide not to show up in court on the day of your hearing to present evidence against you - which means usually the ticket gets dismissed - the ticket is a charge, it is not evidence. If you go to court the officer has to give evidence and without it you will usually get off. Take some pictures of the car, the relevant signs, etc. but there is no reason to get arrested for a parking ticket. None.

[bobclark86]

38. Yeah, just don't say anything.

Don't be a dick about it, but don't say anything except this:

Cop: "Sir, where are you coming from?"
You: "I retain my right to remain silent."
Cop: "Have you been drinking?"
You: "I retain my right to remain silent."
Cop: "Oh, so you HAVE been drinking!?"
You: "I retain my right to remain silent."

Blowing a 0.01 or lower helps. So does being a white male in a blazer and khakis, as well as a beige Volvo.

[CFLDem]

41. I've generally found

being cordial, honest, and having all your IDs/papers in order to be helpful.

Also being white and/or not criminally involved in anything helps, too. But the basic idea is not to give them any loose threads to grasp at.

[B Calm]

46. Years ago I bought a book written by a retired State Police officer

on how to beat speeding tickets. Actually I learned a lot from the book!

[loli phabay]

48. simple dont speed, otherwise challenge the calibration log, if radar demand calibration log

For forks, lots of times its not at the court and you get a dismissal.

[B Calm]

50. and if you are going to speed, try staying out of the left lane

as much as possible.

[loli phabay]

51. yup, also no sudden changes in movement that catch the eye

Be aware of places where radar can be used, look for long straights and downhills. Stay in the pack its harder to zero in on you with radar. Now the rules are different with lidar, further range and it targets just your vehicle. Best advise is honesty it might not get you out of a ticket but either the cop will lower it or the court may.

[Inkfreak]

53. Best advice is the 1st one.

Do illegal shit at home. I smoke weed. Lots of it. Often. But I do it at home. Where my tv & munchies are.

And never ever talk to the police. Ever. Never.



Fuck the police.

[a kennedy]

54. I worked in the parking/security office on our college campus.....

The chief of security along with 3 other officers were fantastic at defusing any hint of hostility with a student that was "wronged", or given a citation. The one officer who wasn't so great, always made the situation worse. He'd first make them wait a few minutes and they grew more and more agitated. He'd then come from the back with his chest puffed out and immediately start to piss them off more then they already were. He'd lower his voice as they raised theirs, he was horrible with them. Should never have been in that position. He loved the power over them, loved that he was in control over them. Ugh..... some officers are just bad people, and this one in particular was a limp balls listener, right winger, and all around loser. Ugh.

[IrishAyes]

62. Despite the MANY disadvantages of retirement to a remote, tiny MidWest 'town',

one good thing is that I've gotten to know the local LEOs fairly well. There are only 2 town cops but as the county seat we do get to host a slightly larger state cop department. I've gone to town council meetings often enough to raise a legitimate stink, sometimes about them, and basically they know that I'm harmless when not hassled but more trouble than it's worth to bother any more. Beyond the usual ID stuff when they do have a legitimate concern to address, no citizen is required to talk to them at all about anything ever.

Now that the 2 problem aldermen are gone, I don't really have any trouble at all. A couple neighbors with close relatives in 'high' places wasted a lot of effort trying to use their connections to cause me trouble, but that's settled down now too.

For instance, one neighbor used to call in false noise complaints on me about my dogs so his police chief buddy could come pounding on my door at night, allegedly to save me public embarrassment. Finally I told the police chief to stay off my property unless he thought he could arrest me for something and make it stick - if he wants to talk to me, telephone. That's probably one reason he didn't follow through with someone's asinine false police report that I'd carried a gun on the county minibus and threatened to shoot people. He knows the people behind that dirty move are politically motivated lowlife teabaggers and that I'm not stupid enough to do something like that. He chatted with me over the fence about it, but that's all. I answered the complaint with my own written statement AND wrote an irate letter to the editor of the local weekly newsrag.

So by now, after almost 8 years, I think we've struck a fairly safe balance. They might abhor my politics as much as I do theirs, but they know they're not getting anywhere with me either. So long as they leave me in peace, I'll do the same for them. Easier on all of us that way. In the absence of abuse, I can be extremely and genuinely cordial.

That said, I do know that things are different for many other people in other places, and I'm sympathetic to their legitimate concerns.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. is "don't be a young black/hispanic male?" in the book? if it's not, then the book misses 90% of why

people are arrested

[Gormy Cuss]

68. I was going to write that the #1 way to avoid arrest is to be white.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. GMTA!

[KurtNYC]

67. 1. Be a flirty white female 2. Don't be black...

Could there be a bigger difference in reactions?

[bettyellen]

81. no, flirty isn't enough. a very attractive man or woman has the advantage over

anyone average looking.
but you probably heard that before, but forgot it applies here.

Being an average female alone does not help, unless the guy is a sleezebag trying to curry sexual favors. Which is not a great situation either.

[yellowcanine]

69. I have had far more positive interactions with police than negative ones - even when I was clearly

in the wrong. Nearly every time I have been stopped for speeding the officer has explained my options and how to best avoid getting points on my driver's license - or I have just gotten a warning. I don't get stopped much anymore because I have learned to use my cruise control to avoid speeding without thinking and if the light turns yellow and I can easily stop without getting rear ended I do (of course one has to have situational awareness to know). Key is when one is in the wrong - admit it and apologize. Show some respect - most of the time they are just doing their job and following their particular assignment for that day. They might not even agree with the assignment and if one shows some respect and contrition, you might just get off with a written warning or get the recorded speed knocked down enough to avoid the threshold for reckless driving, etc. if that is within their power/discretion. But don't expect a lot of breaks when it is clearly not warranted - aggressive driving - intimidating other motorists, excessive speeding in bad weather or a work zone etc. We want to police to stop those drivers - correct? At least I do. And remember that even a routine traffic stop can be a dangerous situation for a cop. There are nutjobs who will shoot a cop without warning just for being in the wrong place and stopping the wrong car. So keep your hands where the officer can see them and explain what you are doing before groping in the glove box for the registration card.

I would also add that I have had several very positive experiences where police officers have come to my or my family's assistance - either in an accident situation or a break down and I was mighty glad to see them and told them so. I was able to get an insurance company to pay off on a claim for my daughter's car because of an accurate police report which supported her side of the argument and not that of the other driver, who gave a very edited version of the accident to his insurance company. And I was very grateful to the two Park Police officers who assisted my wife, daughter and grandson when they had a flat tire on a very busy road near the BWI airport.

Sorry, but I don't get any joy out of bashing law enforcement officers as a group. There are good ones and bad ones, just as with any other profession. It is just that cops are highly visible - and when they screw up everyone sees it.

This book is one cops perspective. He doesn't speak for law enforcement as a group. And it sounds as if he might actually have been part of the problem. I generally do not trust "tell all" books, whether from cops or anyone else.

[UTUSN]

71. "young and competitive" - "predatory" system

By the time things get codified into “rules,” the game has changed, like with SNOWDEN: Since the supposedly omnipotent spying apparatus wasn’t able to CATCH HIM in the first place, presumedly it would be into mutation phase as soon as he spilled his beans and totally changed its entire operating mechanisms, one would think.

Things that stand out here: “cops are young and competitive. It’s a game.” I saw this sea change at work: “Survivor” was in its heyday with its emerging dynamic of no-loyalty, expedient-alliances, generalized backstabbing, and NO-GRATITUDE. Forget playing by the rules. Actually, this is probably how it’s always been.

And tricks-for-profiling is nothing new to ARPAIO (for arresting) and other wingnuts (for voter suppression): “There are many loopholes that allow cops to search your car without probable cause or a warrant”

[MrScorpio]

72. This sounds like excellent information

Especially something to show the cop lovers out there.

[bemildred]

74. Good advice. nt

[wilt the stilt]

76. chris rock has it.

[tavalon]

83. Sadly, and I'm sure this article skirts this issue, but

avoiding being arrested is most easily accomplished by not driving while black, walking while black and come to think of it, breathing while black. Not being black (or anything other than white, but especially black) is the very best way not to get arrested.

I wish I was joking.

[hunter]

96. Being a white polite male has always worked for me.

I learned from my mom and my grandma by bad example how NOT to deal with the police. Telling them what you really think, or in my grandma's worst case, biting them or trying to kick them in the balls, THAT is a bad idea.

But that's not justice.

At my unmedicated worst I was running down the street wearing only tiny 'seventies running shorts and my feet were bleeding.

The cops took me home. An enjoyable time was had by all. I was an interesting diversion to their late night donut break and a lot more fun than any drunk-and-disorderly or domestic violence call.

But if I'd been a big black guy they probably would have shot me or assaulted me in some other way.

[7wo7rees]

101. You watch this and you'll notice a theme and posture that is useful

[Pretzel_Warrior]

107. Shit myself? Start sobbIng and crying? Uhh....no