General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsquinnox
(20,600 posts)warrior1
(12,325 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)There are some serious problems facing the ACA and yet there are too many people here who want to shut down rational discussion of the issues.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)to shut it down.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Is it bullshit that there's a perception problem? Is it bullshit that the democratic caucus in Congress is fracturing over it? Is it bullshit that there have been problems with the federal website?
whining about criticism and trying to shut it down is a big stinking unhelpful pile of shit.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Some criticisms get shouted down, a few underservedly so.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)All passed on to the now captive consumer.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)It is a plan only the Heritage Foundation could've come up with. A bizarre mishmash that enshrines for profit greed into out healthcare law without capturing any of the efficiencies of the marketplace. And at the same time, the ACA brings to bear the entire weight of the Federal government into a plan that doesn't guarantee care from everyone.
A bizarre, "third way" Frankenstein's monster...
edit: Edit to make it clear I am agreeing whole-heartedly with Jesus Malverde's extremely well put post.
tridim
(45,358 posts)In the ACA?
I think you meant to say a profit CAP, which is not a "guaranteed profit margin". Insurance companies are free to lose customers and profit just like any other business.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)were Medicare.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Keep complaining though if it makes you feel better.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)companies to administer the program. At best, Medicare-for-all premiums MIGHT BE 10% less than the insurance companies are charging (under the Medical Loss Ratio), and then the government would have to spend all the money to administer the program that the private insurance companies are shouldering now.
And Medicare is not so good when you consider there are no caps on out-of-pocket costs, etc. My guess is that most folks who are griping now, would be griping under Medicare-for-all if the savings in premiums weren't a whole lot more.
Truth is, the whole system needs an overhaul including what providers expect to get, and what patients expect. Only then are we truly going to have something approaching affordability.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)*Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicares overhead is dramatically lower.
*Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)as a percentage look much better because Medicare expenditures per beneficiary are so much greater. Medicare also loses a ton by paying just about any claim, and trying to recoup fraudulent payments after the fact.
Even if you took your 17%, most folks are going to gripe unless premiums are really cheap like less than a dinner and movie. It ain't gonna happen.
Again, Medicare has no cap on out-of-pocket costs, has serious cover gaps, etc.
My point still stands, until providers and patients accept the compromises needed to make health care truly affordable, we will never be happy.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)That "progressives" would be promoting and aligning themselves with it is surprising.
I'm concerned about the expected sacrifice young people are supposed to make to make this plan work. A generation already saddled in debt and facing limited job opportunities.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)It's odd to think that a generation of young already saddled with unprecedented inequality, debt, and downward pressure on wages could bail out this bizarre system we have it. Set aside issues of fairness. How is it even mathematically possible that there are enough affluent "bros" out there to shoulder 10% increases in the cost of insurance per year?
With what money? Made from which jobs?
Again, another very well put post.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Until the penalties get so abusive they are forced to do so.
They won't get anything for their money because they won't be able to afford the deductibles. Or college, or electricity, or their own apartment. According to many here, they should just be more "responsible" with their $9 an hour paycheck.
leftstreet
(36,107 posts)scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)No. Not even close.
Like another poster said... Stop it.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Ignoring a problem doesn't make it disappear...
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The reaction to the question is hysteria.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Yes, this is a politically toxic moment, but the only thing to fear is panic itself.
pinto
(106,886 posts)to inform policy holders of their options. Including ACA. No more bait 'n switch.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Some of the reactional threads here are hilarious.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...are funnier.
HijackedLabel
(80 posts)When you itemize the ACA, people support it wholeheartedly.
It's the 'Obama' part no one likes.
That and the media sensationalism that amplifies every MINOR problem with the law.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)It's not going to get better. Fixing the minor problems won't make any improvement in this fundamentally flawed law. It was designed on a faulty premise. Several, actually.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)The plan was well intentioned but it looks like "we" don't know what we are doing.
HijackedLabel
(80 posts)Many members of my family are getting Medicaid or getting plans as cheap as $20 a month after subsidies.
I'm sorry some people think they are getting a raw deal, but their whiny bullshit is what's undermining the law for me and my family.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)People have been shut out of Medicaid for decades (generations, even) who qualified based on income, because the State govts. and the Feds were too damn cheap to pay as needed.
Breaking down the Medicaid quota system is very nice, but that isn't Obamacare. And when that lovely federal money goes away (very soon) it will be business as usual for Medicaid. Medicaid reform would have been useful, but it hasn't happened.
HijackedLabel
(80 posts)And should be counted in the enrollment numbers.
As the President said, they are Americans too.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)It has the virtues of
1. actually being functional
2. actually being funded out of general revenues
BUT it is of limited access, limited care, and when you die, your estate is forfeit to the govt. to repay the cost of your medical care.
The fact that the ACA ALSO expanded Medicaid (and not in a sustainable fashion) does not mean the two are equal and alike.
If you are going to make points in an argument, it helps to have a few hard, knobby facts on your side. Emotion will not cut it.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)You are spot on too. Medicaid is a seperate issue that they enticed some states with and repulsed others no thanks in part to the SCOTUS. However, seperate Medicaid reform would have been great and would maybe have allowed more people to be covered in all states.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and minor problems have a way of adding up. There are real and serious problems with the ACA that need fixing sooner rather than later.
HijackedLabel
(80 posts)whose sole mission is to repeal the law using any minor problem as an excuse.
When changes have to be made legislatively, it's not going to happen.
People need to suck it up and defend what we have in the moment.
cali
(114,904 posts)And trying to silence people sucks ass.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)We have been through these things too many times - this jumping up and down with asshairs on fire.
Calm down.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Damn cat is a fucking terror!
My cat Samy who is about to turn 15 looks at it and says, "really"? You just chased your own ass around the living room for 10 minutes
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I forget what dimensions we are on. I believe we crossed over into String Theory.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)So, no, I don't think so. You just have to tune out the GOP/Media screeching sky-is-falling noises. They WANT everyone swept up in hysteria and doom. Resist it.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)by the perpertually disappointed.
tired act, same actors.
cali
(114,904 posts)with real ramifications- whether it's GOP hysteria or not.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Take cali, Tansy Gold over in the Economy group, and me, for starters...we have been doing the research. You are welcome to view it all. Links in our journals.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)The White House and Democrats need to fix the fixable problems, and come out swinging in defense. Many people will (and have already) benefitted from the ACA, and to go backwards with some sort of repeal or unwinding of the law will fuck up the system and hurt people far more than letting the ACA go forward with adjustments. Republicans actually know that--that's why they weren't all-in for Cruz's jackassed shutdown. They'd rather try to force chickenshit Dems to help them undermine it in the guise of "helping".
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)negative scrutiny and opposition, it's almost impossible to avoid letting it affect your own thoughts and feelings. When you hear 24/7 that it's the biggest catastrophe to ever have happened in the United States (and really, they are saying just that on righty blogs), you have to remind yourself that it's CHANGES TO HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE, and not much more than that. Republicans have mastered hissy fits, Democrats are spineless, and the volume gets turned up to eleven and everyone panics.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)People are hysterical, if the polls are to be believed, and they are blaming us as in Democrats.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)coverage thru employers, Tricare, Medicare, etc. That's why Dems need to keep perspective, keep control of messaging, and ride out the intial storm.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)But the taxes on medical devices, drug companies, insurance companies, Cadillac plans, etc. will all feed through to higher employee contributions, more limited network options, and higher out of pocket costs.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)how it all shakes out, probably won't know for a few years.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)Remember Truman.
No apologizing for the ACA!
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman
-Laelth
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Back in 2009 we controlled both houses of Congress. ACA is the result of years of Democratic planning to revise health care. It was rushed into law while we had control of both houses, partly as a tribute to the late Senator Kennedy.
I doubt that Obama had much idea of what was going on. In the White House, health care policy was mainly under the control of some ex-Clinton administration types.
Lifelong Dem
(344 posts)Never even crossed my mind. A lot of people are saving money with ACA.
Here are a few of the many.
http://queenofspainblog.com/2013/11/13/we-just-enrolled-in-obamacare/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/i-am-obamacare-_n_4046470.html
http://www.lohud.com/article/20131112/NEWS02/311120064/Affordable-Care-Act-profile-Self-employed-couple-find-400-savings?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p&nclick_check=1
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)$$$$$$$$------>>>>>
RandiFan1290
(6,232 posts)Remember when he extended the tax cuts for the rich to help win the 2010 election?
Thank god it passed!!!!
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)they are essentially useless.
When chuck toad said that it wasn't his job to question false statements made by republicans about the ACA, that said everything
factsarenotfair
(910 posts)Actually damaging and discouraging.
Orrex
(63,208 posts)I was outside during my lunch break, and I swear that the sky was falling!
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)it's not going to happen... at least not in my life time. (i'm feeling old today).
So let's hope the ACA works well enough.
If all it takes is this tweak to make it perceived to be working for 3 million Americans... and if it works well for 37 Million more (like the uninsured from before or students who can stay on their parents health care or the 1 Million additional people who can get Medicaid)...
All that has to happen is for those Americans to show their appreciation by VOTING "D" next November.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...but I sure am tired of Obama capitulating under pressure.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They are panicking and attempting to fix an extremely flawed piece of legislation.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Media types talk about it as if it's going up like the Hindenburg. Real people I talk to or overhear talk about it like a minor fenderbender -- a nuisance, but not a calamity.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Outside of a few provisions like raising Medicaid eligibility and ending discrimination on pre-existing conditions, this was dogshit legislation.
It will end up hurting us.
We need government-run healthcare, not a reconfigured profit scheme.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,956 posts)The media isn't doing its job.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)and the so-called government IT experts saying today that the website may not be ready by 12/15. Gaps in coverage, cancer patients starting over with new doctors... yep, unfuckingbelievable.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)In fact it seems more chronic than the justified anxiety about the government shutdown and possible debt ceiling breach leading to a global economic crisis several weeks ago.
spanone
(135,831 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)seeing the great cover on the box top, dumping out the pieces and digging through the pile to find the corners, then the edges, start little side groupings by matching colors or faces or objects, then pray that all of the rest of the pieces are there to finish it.