General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThey were just discussing TPP in the Japanese Parliament
One of the vocal critics has been this woman, Tomoko Kami, a member of Parliament, who was talking about the disastrous effects it might have in Hokkaido:
Here is a chart that she was using to show the predicted effects-- a loss of 40,000 jobs, economic loss of 500+ billion yen ($5 billion) due to the expected loss of agricultural production in the Tokachi area of Hokkaido alone.
Here is the prime minister listening to Ms. Kami:
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Its hard not to subscribe to the hyperbole when the actual text is kept secret.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)and there is considerable opposition to it, especially in rural areas.
Lasher
(27,589 posts)It goes on to say, "That's just what the TPP would do to us, only worse."
Just a loose translation.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:02 AM - Edit history (1)
I think you got the nuance of that chart to a "T"
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,845 posts)So far, it looks like every country would be screwed by this deal, some more than others. Maybe countries with a lot of cheap labor would get something out of it, but I'm sure there would simply be more jobs with shitty wages. Those international corporations are gobbling up money and killing everyone's economy.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Hollywood would benefit (they want increased copyright protections for their art and the ability to sue for infringement). Not sure that those interests serve the American people, per se, but those are a couple of the American interests being advanced.
Please do not read this post as an endorsement of the TPP.
-Laelth
LuvNewcastle
(16,845 posts)It's good to know who's pushing for this treaty to be signed. Thanks for giving some examples.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)As far as I know, that's what we're pushing for with the TPP. I'd be OK with life of the author +10, I suppose, but if you ask me, Star Wars, for example, should belong to the world now, and not to George Lucas. Even so, I'd be willing to give him his life plus ten years for his offspring to benefit (through no effort of their own) from his luck and success.
That said, it's the extraterritorial, capitalist-controlled courts that would threaten state and national sovereignty that bother me most about the TPP. No way I want the people of the United States, the states themselves, and the federal government of the United States under the jurisdiction of a court that can not be controlled through democratic processes, i.e. elections by the people under its jurisdiction.
So, while I respect property rights and am open to agreements that protect copyrights, I oppose the TPP.
-Laelth
Did the copyright run out yet for "Happy Birthday"?
Totally ridulous the expiration time on some of this stuff...
Lasher
(27,589 posts)And an accurate characterization. There's lots of other ramifications, of course, like labor laws and environmental standards. This is about handing sovereignty to multinational corporations.
delrem
(9,688 posts)In no case is it discussed how this absurd notion destroys the very notion of "people equal under the law".
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)PATRICK
(12,228 posts)I'd like to think of this whole worldwide push to make the small farmer an anachronism. My recollection of this first example is colored by Cold War education but Soviet Russia offered the first massive example of recently freed serfs having just been given their own land were instead then pushed onto collective farms. Resistance was massive with massive retribution. Whatever socialist benefits the farmers were to glean the nation as a whole had a long path of suffering even if Stalin hadn't come along. The victory of the state enabled the disastrous installation of Lamarckian evolution theories on the uniform system. Russian soil and climate is harsh enough on crops without a crazy fix by an ignoramus on top. In "Animal Farm" the capitalist tyrant, the "Farmer" finally comes back to praise the system of new slavery. Of course in my time it was never pointed out how capitalism and socialism would come to share abuses of humankind on the methodological level and the elites of course share the same profits.
Anyway, we have had stories of many countries where subsistence farming is undercut for unsustainable, even insane global trade practices. Then, connected to that or not, of countries using these same principles lumping together farms into corporate "collective farms" where of course, fewer farmers are needed as wage serfs and no COOP model of course. The COOP model survives as a populist survivor, but the entire world food system, wasted, stressed, gamed by dependence on scientific methods against nature, is regressively in the hands of a few. Those few have their overall control of farming based on power and profit remote and above any connection to the land or the basic necessities of life that farming represents. One corporation, Monsanto is on one hand reducing seed variety and availablity while introducing their own quickly manufactured GMO food.
Now, for all the seeming absence of global warming from these basic capitalist goals and socialism enslaved to rich elites(mere continuation of human history and farming) the "it's good for you" also has a tinge of preparation for global food crisis when nations will try to stretch their food supply with ruthless control over the little guy farmer once and for all.
Peak Agriculture might become one of those "alarmist" theories that we will see enacted out first regionally, then globally- the only result being the shrinking of the Malthus population level to a strife torn, possibly sustainable" new map.
I read a lot of the Gear books on Native Americans, the various forms of society apocalypse being a big focus of those thousands of years of tribal history. Population grows as food is available. When a bad patch comes, human ingenuity and human power games, divisions ante up. The nomad thing for various reasons becomes a last resort. Then a crisis point hits when the stretching and the strife fail in a cold snap/draught. By this point the stressed meat sources have been hunted out and there is nothing but seeds or fighting over your neighbor's food supply(which destroys huge chunks of that supply AND people- a useless math). The Five Nations had to have a near Armageddon to come together or dissolve as a people. Others were unable to shake off a tyranny that continued all the way to the complete end of their civilization where survivors fled to better areas.
Nomadism of the few is harsh enough a solution and deadly to many but mega civilizations built on power and rivalry rather than cooperation in themselves fall harder. In our day we are globally stressed. Harder to find the sweet spots much less move to them in if the stretched, brilliant modern farming system snaps.
You might think that big farms even more tightly managed are a big answer to global warming or that they are merely a symptom of capitalist vultures feeding off weak victims, in fact the last of their own food supply. TPP is an overt vulture power play not cooperation. Time is running out and upping the pain for even arriving at cooperation models. The nearly secondary(and almost as secret) goal of actually improving the food supply is TiPPed to the vultures and a doomed system. If it works it will exponentially be more at the whims of nature and sheer luck than any individual farmer working his single plot of land. But the the people who control it for insanely surreal "profit" are remote from the consequences until the bitter end- or until beaten into change.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)It shows particular damage to the dairy industry. Hokkaido is like Japan's Wisconsin, so the dairy industry is very important to the local economy.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts) 政府は3月15日、日本はTPP加入によってGDPが3.2兆円増加し、農林水産物生産額が3兆円減少する、という政府統一試算を発表した
According to the government's own estimates announced on March 15, TPP would be essentially a zero-sum game for Japan, with calculated GDP benefits of 3.2 trillion yen, versus losses of 3 trillion yen, in the agriculture, forestry and fisheries sectors (it doesn't mention other sectors). Total estimated net economic benefit, including just agricultural losses: 200 billion yen, or around $2 billion. A drop in the bucket for an economy as large as Japan's, and hardly worth it at the risk of depressing already depressed rural areas.
And it is estimated that economic losses from agricultural production would have multiplier effects of 2 to 4 fold on local economies, based on calculations made by individual prefectures (states).
TPPによる農業生産減少は、地域産業にその2~4倍の影響を及ぼす
http://iwj.co.jp/wj/open/archives/88807