General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt turns out Fox really isn't a danger to American political life
or our democracy. Thanks to consumers of rape porn, I've learned that media has no impact on one's consciousness, no matter how much time someone spends watching it. Therefore all the worrying about Fox News contaminating the minds of American voters cannot be true. Whether one watches PBS, Democracy Now, MSNBC or Fox, it apparently doesn't matter. There is a firm wall between media and reality. So no more worrying about the fairness doctrine. We can breath a sigh of relief.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)man. wont that make parenting easy. good to know none of society has an effect on us at all.
brilliant.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Or to tell us if it is only porn from which the brain entirely impervious.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)or similar in their capacity to influence society.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and sure enough. lmfao. that is exactly it.
bah hahahah
too too too rich
rrneck
(17,671 posts)and literalists cause a lot of trouble because of their failure to acknowledge that fact.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)And if you treat Fox et al as literally true, that would be a problem. Of course, since Fox et al tout themselves as journalists and purveyors of facts, which can be assumed to be literally true, then you're going to have a bit of a problem with reality. Now, assuming a fictional presentation of certain sexual practices is literally true would put one's position in relationship to reality on the wrong side of the same veracity line as well, wouldn't it?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Rape porn marketed as actual rape? People are watching it believing that, or at least hoping that, there is an actual rape being documented on the tape, because it is a marketing tool to call it real rape.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)that is intended to mimic but not reproduce actual occurrences.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Or it might actually be rape as that is what the claim is. Why would it claim to be rape if it isn't? Why would that be a selling point?
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Because some people get off on that shit. Some people like to jump motorcycles. Other people like to watch people jump motorcycles.
If it's actually rape it's evidence of a crime and that crime should be prosecuted. The question to ask at that point is the same question that should be asked of all sexual activity and depictions thereof - was it consensual? If the answer is yes it wasn't rape. Documentation of that consensual activity and eligibility of participation should be required.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is that what you are saying?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Just as people can watch The Blair Witch Project while thinking it's real, but they can't watch the actual filmed murder of people.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)If it isn't actual rape it shouldn't be trying to pass itself off as it. And only a sick fuck wants to watch people actually and truly get raped. That is just a plain old fact.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)But if nobody actually got raped, there is nothing to prosecute. Fiction is free to pass itself off as anything it wants.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and there is a sticker on it saying it is a real rape, then there is something to prosecute. So the UK created a law that they can prosecute that, and people said that it is an infringement upon someone's rights. That's what started this discussion.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)If the latter, there is nothing to prosecute.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)Somebody in another thread claimed experience in the porn business. They claimed you could tell the difference between real and fake stuff.
What's to keep producers of the fake stuff from mimicking the real stuff to make it seem more "authentic" and "forbidden"? It's just a question of cinematography.
xulamaude
(847 posts)and only mimics reality?
rrneck
(17,671 posts)The mix of opinion and news along with manipulative graphics makes it more fiction than journalism in my mind. Granted, I haven't seen much of it, and I don't plan to. But the last time I saw it I was appalled.
xulamaude
(847 posts)a whole lot of people genuinely believe what FN is selling and they are real people who vote and pay taxes and other 'good american' things.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)But it's not new. Bullshit is as old as communication. I think education is the best fix.
xulamaude
(847 posts)that just because some people 'can' tell the difference (or think they can) many others do/can/will not because it's what they want to hear, see and believe just like rape porn.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Neither is kinky.
ETA
I don't think we can build a bubble around people to protect them from themselves.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)Fine by me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)on us as people. it is a stupid ass position. and it is dishonest.
others may want other stuff. i want honesty.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)And it does have an effect.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)That bad fiction is bad? That bad fiction has an impact on people? Of course it does. We don't know how much of an affect it has. We don't know if it results in any behavior at all. We don't know how to censor fiction equitably or effectively.
At some point the discussion has to become something more that the caterwauling of moral outrage.
xulamaude
(847 posts)I think we should protect people who are unable to protect themselves and to keep them from having to do things they would rather not.
But that's what makes me dreamer.
(gotta go do some stuff - thanks for the exchange.)
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Have a good day.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)and bill it as such, seemingly because that is what viewers want to believe. In many ways, it is more real than Fox. Pornography depicts rape and sometimes stages real rape. Those are experiences millions of women and men have gone through. I did a Google search under rape porn and the top results I turned up were "Indian gang rape," "drunk girl rape," and "military women raped." They are clearly appealing to those turned on by reported cases of actual rape.
The premise that rape porn has no influence on rape or society in general is founded on the notion that what one watches in no way influences him. If that is so, it should apply to any and all media.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)There has to be a connection to reality because without the context of reality it wouldn't work.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)are not allowed to be bothered that men are getting off on what real rape is..... you know, what the rape victim actually experienced, cause it is fiction?
wowser
xulamaude
(847 posts)that the bible is fiction but that hasn't stopped it (and those who believe in its authenticity) from damaging/ending millions or even billions of real people's lives.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)You know, biblical literalism and the whole Inquisition Copernicus thing...
You are aware of Christian Dominionists in this country, are you not?
xulamaude
(847 posts)because CDs are just one faction of folks hanging out under the patriarchal umbrella.
These are (obviously?) the kinds of things I like to be knowledgeable about. Thanks for the link though.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)but we can't legislate a protective bubble for them.
And veterans should avoid screenings of Saving Private Ryan if they suffer PTSD.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is rape.
that is what we are talking. and when you cant wiggles yourself out of that one, the go to is.... no law, no ban. wtfever.
address the issue. if a man thinks it is rape and gets off on it, it is him getting off on real rape, even if it is not. so men are getting off on rape. that simple. that is DISGUSTING
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Oh, you're afraid I'll try to wiggle out of acknowledging your emotional response? Is that why we're here, to validate our feelings? Okay, I think it's sick. Feel better?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)fuckin for real?
rrneck
(17,671 posts)I love a good pun.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)fiction that the person believes is real
rrneck
(17,671 posts)everything we perceive with our five senses has an effect on us, as everything we perceive in ourselves.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)There is real rape filmed and sold as pornography all the time. So quite obviously it works.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Real rape is not fiction, it's a crime and the video is evidence of such.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Additionally, no small number of pron workers are enslaved, therefore any sex they engage in is rape since they have not consented. Your assertion that real rape would not work is the genre is demonstrably false.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)What's your point?
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Thus the cross communication.
The argument that something does not affect behavior because it is "fiction" does not hold water. 1) Porn is not billed as fiction. It is advertised as real and can also be real. 2) If fiction were so irrelevant to our lives and had so little influence, why would we read literature? Why would play writes and poets write? Clearly, art has an impact on the human imagination. You seem to think news does, yet have decided porn is somehow immune. It makes no sense. Whatever one spends a significant amount of time watching or doing is going to influence how they see the world.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)As to the other, actually no. I have said more than once that porn has an impact. Everything that touches our five senses has an impact as well as the chemical stew in our skulls. The problem is that the nature and extent of that impact is impossible to measure.
As I recall, the first post I made regarding this issue was, "You can't regulate fiction."
lame54
(35,287 posts)tblue37
(65,340 posts)TV and radio ads!
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Our minds take in no external influences whatsoever, so what is it that advertisers have been spending money on?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,455 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)threads on the subject? There have been MANY.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)I was thinking of making some of these on the side Thursday. Ham and turkey breast in the smoker is #1 priority but if I don't have to keep running in and out these look fun!
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)according to my communication classes. The media can generally tell people what to think about, but it cannot generally tell people how to think. Not only this, but if a person identifies with one political position, then facts and stories that contradict this position will most likely cause the person to double down on the originally held belief.
If you watch Fox News for an hour a day, you won't become a conservative because of it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)that women are there to serve, arent the men already conditioned to take this crap and internalize it just like the fox news watcher that is repug and their want to believe this crap is simply being fed.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Rape porn doesn't turn peaceful men who like women into rapists. Those men don't watch rape porn in the first place. Those who do are already disposed to rape. They wouldn't watch rape porn in the first place if they didn't find violation of women erotic. The porn normalizes rape, breaks down their inhibitions, over time it no longer satisfies their desires, and eventually some turn to rape.
Just like watching Fox news makes people more likely to vote Republican. A sold Democrat won't watch much Fox to begin with, but someone disposed to that view point will, and their political views will change over time.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Foxnews tells lies all day long, you cannot really compare a company that lies to someone watching rape porn all day long. Your apples to oranges ratio is way off.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)It is merely fiction, which is why, they insist, it has absolutely no influence on anyone who watches it.
Rex
(65,616 posts)needs to seek professional help. My question to them is, how do you know you are watching 'rape porn' and not an actual rape video?
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I think you realize my point was to highlight one glaring fallacy in their justification of rape porn.
As for your question about whether or not its actual rape: they don't really care. The response is "rape is already illegal." They feel no responsibility not to financially subsidize it. Additionally, if they are so intent that the whole genre is about fantasy, why would they watch porn billed as real rape? Why do so many pornographers insist it is real?
Rex
(65,616 posts)We have huge instiutions (porn is just as big as religion imo) that chose to ignore the obvious. Rape is not about sex, but now thanks to 'rape porn'...it is. Just don't agree with the premise. Never will.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I am always glad to talk with like minded people!
Rape, like global child slavery/prostitution is just as real and in your face as hunger and war. People can ignore these atrocities behind their monitor and sitting in their comfy chair all they want to YET nobody - NOBODY - should enable the notion that rape and sex can be compatible. It is like saying war and peace are compatible. They are not and never will be. Don't do it, it is a losing argument.
Very illuminating thread BB. I am glad not everyone here is shunned into silence about rape culture.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)It's next to impossible to silence me.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)is meaningless since media cannot influence how people think.