Electric car owner charged with stealing 5 cents worth of juice

[n2doc]

CHAMBLEE, Ga. -- One Saturday in November, Kaveh Kamooneh drove his Nissan Leaf to Chamblee Middle School, where his 11-year-old son was playing tennis.

Kamooneh had taken the liberty of charging the electric car with an exterior outlet at the school. Within minutes of plugging in the car, he says a Chamblee police officer appeared.

"He said that he was going to charge me with theft by taking because I was taking power, electricity from the school," Kamooneh said.

Kamooneh says he had charged his car for 20 minutes, drawing about a nickel's worth of juice. Don Francis of Clean Cities Atlanta, an electric vehicle advocacy group, says the estimate of 5 cents is accurate.

more

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/314666/3/Electric-car-owner-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice

[ProdigalJunkMail]

1. so you believe you should be able to pull up anywhere

and charge your car? someone could just pull up in YOUR driveway, find an outlet, and plug in?

now, should they have asked him to unplug first before calling the cops? probably... but given the violent reactions some people have to being told they cannot do things...

sP

[n2doc]

2. How about a frickin warning?

You must love the police state.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. did you not read that i think they should have asked?

nah... guess you missed that part...

sP

[joeglow3]

5. I don't have a problem with the outcome

If someone doesn't know it is unethical to just plug your shit into someone's outlet, they probably need a slap in the face to teach them right and wrong.

[MADem]

28. Naaaah. Sorry. Should stores have to put up "Don't steal the merchandise" signs?

This person knew better. That's theft by taking.

Should he go to jail? No. Pay a fine. Don't do it anymore.

It's not "love the police state" to object to people stealing things that do not belong to them, and to suggest it is, is bullshit.

[HappyMe]

3. Technically he was stealing.

They could have just warned the guy.

I think that this will become more and more of a problem. He should have charged it up at home.

[loli phabay]

6. not sure of the local ordinances here, but in some places there is no discretion allowed

When it comes to stealing or damaging county/city property.

[HappyMe]

8. Yeah, I'm not sure what the ordinances here are either.

Maybe the cops had no choice but to charge the guy.

It was a crappy thing for the guy to do. Instead of an environmental wonder boy, he just looks like a cheap asshat.

[loli phabay]

10. yup tjere are lots of rules when it comes to schools, probuably they have a rule that teachers cant

Confront parents etc in their parking lots but have to call law enforcement due to the danger ofbescalation as well.

[HappyMe]

13. I agree.

Why take the chance that the guy would go off on them, and the situation gets out of hand.

[MADem]

29. +++++++1! nt

[karadax]

7. Now if it was a cellphone instead of a car would the cop have cared ?

Big car plugged in = big power drain. It's assumed by most that it costs a lot to charge one up. Maybe the cop assumed this as well. Not the case at all.

Not a lot of people know the ins and outs of electric cars. I calculated it out to be about $20 bucks a month on average in Texas at $.068 per kilowatt hour.

[maxsolomon]

30. I have used outlets in public parks to charge my cell phone

I assumed it was illegal, because this is America, and nothing is free.

[zbdent]

9. Wonder how many people have kids who use the school grounds

that do not attend that school ...

wouldn't that be theft, too?

[loli phabay]

11. probuably not, different rules apply to juveniles than adults.

[yesphan]

15. Recall the woman who

enrolled her child in a different school district than she resided ?

http://madamenoire.com/142012/homeless-mother-gets-12-years-for-stealing-education/

[zbdent]

21. There was one in the Akron area ...

which got jail time for same thing ... enrolling her kid in a school that she was not a resident of the district ...

[berni_mccoy]

12. If it's not a designated public station, I ask for permission before charging

I have a plug-in electric and I always ask before charging it.

[Jesus Malverde]

31. What kind of range are you getting and model.

I'm jealous...

[Archaic]

39. I'm not Berni, but I'll answer for me.

Chevy Volt, 40 mile range electric when it's cold. 50 when it's not.

Lifetime mpg is 218 since I can charge frequently, and my drives are usually short.

I've bought gas six times since August 2013, and have nearly 12000 miles.

[Jesus Malverde]

40. If your running low on juice does the motor kick in and charge the batts

like the prius?

[Archaic]

42. The motor never touches the wheels.

It only charges the battery and you continue to drive electric.

So it's not like the normal Prius that is able to be electric sometimes. The Volt is electric at all times, so I can do 85mph without the engine kicking in. Then after I've exhausted the battery, it turns on the engine to keep the battery charged. But that's very rare for me. I have to do a 90 mile round trip to my sister's place to use gas. Otherwise, I'm always electric.

[jmowreader]

61. Is there a function where you can choose to start the engine yourself?

The Volt seems like the perfect Western Electric Car - because of the engine you can go pretty much anywhere you want, and out here there are very long gaps between outlets. But I would want to be able to run the engine for a few minutes before a long trip so I'd be sure it would start. Can you push a button somewhere for engine start, or are you limited to having to go out and drive on the freeway for an hour until it starts on its own?

[Archaic]

62. Yes, it wasn't on the 2011/2012 but is now.

It's called Hold mode.

So when I drive 30 miles north, I'll stay electric in town, hit Hold for the interstate where it's 40+mpg, then hit electric again when I get to the offramp.

Round trip gets me about 60-70 mpg depending on wind, how much you have to speed, how much time spent at 25 mph.

[Orrex]

14. I'm of two minds about this

I mean, yeah, he stole the electricity, but I would certainly have done the same without thinking twice about it, so I can hardly condemn him. At the same time, if it was only $0.05, why didn't he charge at home?

On the other hand, how much gas did the cop use in driving there?

[FSogol]

34. Our schools already have limited budgets. Do we really need the school budget to be used

so some privileged yuppie prick can recharge his toy? He's getting exactly what he deserves.

[Orrex]

37. That's a great point

loli phabay also made a good point that there may be special rules regarding abuse of school resources.

I still have to admit that I likely would have done the same thing, though I disclaim that I wouldn't run to the local media to cry about it if I were caught.

[LanternWaste]

43. Yours is indeed, the face of America.

"rivileged yuppie prick can recharge his toy? He's getting exactly what he deserves...."

Yours is indeed, the face of the new America.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. And it's double butt ugly.

[FSogol]

52. Why? Because I side with the community school? This isn't a poor person warming his supper with

school electricity, it is someone who feels entitled to take community resources for his own needs. What if they caught him siphoning gas from the school's generator for his car? Would you still feel the same because he only took a little?

[NiteOwll]

16. We have become so greedy...

He was a parent there at a school event, not a random guy looking for something to steal. All this for 5 cents. How long does a middle school tennis practice last anyway? Even if he charged it for an hour, as he said, it would have only cost 9 cents.

I wonder if teachers or staff ever charge their cell phones at the school? Is that stealing? Or how about using too many paper towels in the restroom? Or making a personal call from a school phone? I feel safer knowing that this guy was off the streets for 15 hours.

[gvstn]

17. I can understand everyone's stance in this situation but don't understand why it had to end in court

I don't want to bash the police but I think some common sense community policing could have made this go away without a charge being levied. The school probably had a policy about not confronting people but once the police arrived this could have been handled better. I'm curious if the guy was so reasonable as the video portrays or if there is more to the story. Seems to me an apology at the time would have sufficed for all involved.

My mom uses an electric scooter and one model used to suddenly lose its charge without warning. We often had to plug in at a mall or restaurant but always asked permission. It was never an issue with anyone we asked. This should have ended with a warning and explanation of why the school was uncomfortable with someone attaching wires to their building which is probably the case. Not really about theft of electricity.

.

[loli phabay]

18. as i stated above there may be a no discretion policy in regards to county/city property

Same as if you as an individual were the victim and wanted to have charges of larceny pressed, then the officer cant just walk away if he has probable cause and a victim wanting charges.

[gvstn]

19. I agree that a policy or attitude caused the situation.

I'm just not sure who is at fault. Either the guy was an entitled jerk or the school/police were jerk(s). I'm betting on the guy not being very reasonable at the time. I mentioned the police could have been more community policing minded because I think this is the type of situation where charges are not really warranted unless someone is being totally unreasonable. There is obviously a law under which this guy is being charged and the officer is correct he violated that law but I am saying I think this type of situation could have been diffused if the parties had wanted it to be.

[kelly1mm]

20. How could anyone even think it would be acceptable to plug into an outlet that is

not yours and/or not designated as some type of public charging station? Do they think it is OK to plug into their neighbors garage outlet? What about going across the street and picking pears from the neighbors tree? WTF?

[Ed Suspicious]

32. No, but I never thought twice about charging my phone at school or in an outlet a my local pizza

joint. Just never crossed my mind that anyone would care.

[WinkyDink]

22. It isn't the $ amount that is the point, so let's just drop that line. It is this man's feeling he

is ENTITLED to the electricity.

Like trespassers "just cutting through" one's yard.

Like the Manson killers "just getting a drink" at a (lucky) person's backyard spigot.

Like......get it?

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. Stealing $.05 of electricity is like being a member of the Manson family?

Kind of a Godwin there.

It's a small problem, which suggests small solutions.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. In my area, a 110v outlet can deliver about $0.10 of electricity per hour.

The water fountain is a bigger money loser.

All of the solutions I can think of to such a tiny problem cost far more than the problem itself.

Unplug the car if he doesn't have permission. Obtaining permission in exchange for a $5 donation to the ASB is probably a good deal for all involved.

[dembotoz]

25. so if i plug in my laptop while using wifi at mickey d's i am stealing

ahhh it is always fun when technology surpasses legality.

i do wonder if he pulled this everyday

[n2doc]

26. well, if you charge your personal cellphone at work, you are stealing

I wonder how much taxpayer money this is all going to cost in the end, as compared to a verbal warning by the cop not to do it again.

[FSogol]

36. That's only stealing if your company has a policy against it.

Public and private are different issues.

[City Lights]

27. 15 hours of jail time for stealing .05 worth of electricity.

Oh how I wish the fucking crooks on Wall Street would have been jailed 15 hours for every .05 they stole!

[customerserviceguy]

38. I'd settle

for fifteen minutes for each five dollars they stole!

[SoCalDem]

33. Facilities with "outdoor electric outlets"

need to lock them up, and spare the cities the expense of having police intervention.. problem solved

5 cents is small change, but if they do not want people helping themselves the their electricity, they need to make it impossible to do so..

[Hassin Bin Sober]

65. You're a going to catch shit for that but an interesting question is in play here...

... that won't sit well with the law and order black and white folks.

The days of plug in portable devices, gadgets, and cars are here.

Owners/managers of outlets in publicly accessible areas where people are invited to be will need to be a little more specific in how they want the outlets used. Especially if they intend to prosecute. Signage will work and so will locks.

Without knowing where the outlet in question was placed in relation to the car/parking lot I can't really argue the specifics of this case.

But I think we can safely assume this guy didn't break and enter or trespass to access the plug. I think we can safely assume he was in an area accessible by people legally permitted on the premises.

Was the outlet directly in front of the parking spot?

Could an argument be made there is implied permission to use an electrical outlet accessible to invited users of the facilities? I doubt anyone here will argue for prosecution of the same father plugging his phone in to an outlet in the lobby of the gymnasium. If not - why not? Remember, a theft is a theft.

People are making analogies of taking merchandise - that analogy doesn't apply when you consider taking something that was clearly meant for sale. Nor does the analogy about trespassing uninvited private property to take electric.

There should be a lot more leeway for dealing with people invited to a publicly accessible faculty.

Absent any signage, locks or prior warnings, I think the people responsible should drop the charges. that would start with the school authorities and then the prosecutor, if it gets that far. The last resort should be the court/jury.

Not to mention why are cops showing up and arresting people for petty crimes? Would a summons suffice? Of course it would. But that's a different issue.

[struggle4progress]

35. Instead of whining that he only took $0.05 worth of electricity, the fellow ought to get a lawyer

who knows his stuff and can work out a quick settlement, whereby (say) he apologizes to the school district and donates a few hundred bucks to the school library

There's no reason the school should allow everybody who wants some electricity to plug into an outlet

[Archaic]

41. Thanks for posting that, it's revealed a ton about the commenters here.

We have to get over this us vs. them thing. We're all in this together, and railing on somebody because they driving a $40,000 car makes them rich is missing the point.


I drive a plug-in electric. I've used less than 50 gallons in 18 months to go 12000 miles. I thought that was a good thing.

I don't have kids, but pay property taxes to fund the schools. But apparently if I were to plug in at a school while I was there for a meeting, I'd be some yuppie thief. I should have just stuck to the "efficient" cars they sell now that are getting 30mpg instead of 200+. Yay pollution and foreign entanglements!

[snooper2]

44. want something even better!

Get the new 2014 Dodge Ram 1500!

240HP, 420 lbs torque direct injection V6 Diesel

28MPG Highway!

Motor Trend Truck of the YEAR!

[Archaic]

46. That's awesome for a truck.

I just wish we could peel off a few of the people who drive trucks that never tow, never carry stuff, never go offroad.

I work with a bunch of people that could get to work in a Smart car 345 days a year. But they drive truck-a-saurus all year, and complain about gas prices.

I'm very happy to see Detroit working on more efficient engines and getting them into the fleet. But I'd love to see the commercials bragging about 32mpg end. I want them to feel shame for 4-door sedans that get below 50mpg in 2013.

[Sgent]

50. I'm seeing a lot

of 2 car homes now having at least one of them be a small car and 1 truck.

I currently need a truck about 10-15 times a year, and just borrow one from family / friends. That being said, if I didn't have one easily available, I would consider getting one as my next car rather than the small cars I'm looking at.

[Archaic]

57. Unfortunately where I am, it's usually big truck, big suv.

The charger where I work is regularly (like 3 days a week) blocked by an Escalade "Hybrid."

The other days where somebody beats her to the spot, she is conveniently handicapped and has a tag. So she either is, or isn't. Not both, when the parking lot changes.

I think it would be nice if some of the people that use a truck less than once a month would just rent one instead of spending all that money, pollution throughout the year to make up for it.

[jmowreader]

64. Speaking of Smart cars...

I was driving between Dallas and Fort Worth in an 18-wheeler one fine early morning when some bonehead in a Smart car decided to pass me...the guy cut in so close I couldn't see the whole car, and there he stayed. If any cop saw me and him after the pass I would have been cited for following too closely so I backed out of the gas enough to let this guy get quite a ways ahead. It's good the car was Smart because the driver didn't appear to be.

Safety lesson for today: It requires 350 feet to stop a semi from 60mph if the driver is absolutely alert. Your car with a typical driver driving normally needs 180-200 feet. If you do something as stupid as our Smart driver, and you keep doing it, eventually it will kill you.

[Archaic]

66. No doubt.

The car doesn't make a driver anymore of a jerk than they are before they get in.

It's popular to bash Porsche or Hummer drivers. But it's not the vehicle's fault that a jerk picked it to drive.

The license says that somebody is theoretically capable of driving properly, but not that they will.

[FSogol]

54. I drive a gas powered Jeep. Can I help myself to the schools generator fuel tank the next time I am

at a meeting since I pay taxes?

[Archaic]

58. Is the gas generator fuel tank in the front of the building with multiple hookups?

Or is it locked up behind?

I'm talking about a socket here. One that people use to plug in all kinds of stuff, every day.

I get the point. I don't get the outrage.

[FSogol]

59. Not outraged at all. Trying to have a discussion. Had he plugged his cell phone

in or boom box, I doubt the police would have said anything*. Charging his car is not something the school system should be responsible for. He's taking resources away from the school. The police were right to make him stop. An arrest seems silly, unless he refused to stop, but I suspect the court will sort it out.

Some schools have fuel dispensers for the buses, if they forgot to lock it, I can take the gas, right?

* Depending on the PD.

[joeybee12]

45. Thank God he didn't take a drink of water out of a fountain while it was charging!

That could have brought it up to seven cents! Thank God there will thousands of dollars spent charging and trying this guy to get that fucking nickel back!

[LanternWaste]

47. Kafka would see this as an extension of his works...

Kafka would see this as an extension of his own written works...

It's much like The Trial, except that Rabinsteiner, Kullich and Kaminer are posters rationalizing the sentencing rather than bank employees in the novel. Or maybe Hugo's Inspector Javert, who sees a twenty year sentence for the theft of a loaf of bread as both just and righteous.

We have our own little Inspector Javert's here. That's adorable!!!

[Starry Messenger]

49. I feel there are many elements missing from this story.

I'm the first one to leap when there is a theft of public resources, especially at a public school, but this doesn't seem to rise to the level of graft that, oh, charter school operators, have executed on a large scale.

I would never think twice about plugging something in somewhere. I would assume that if there was a problem with it, there would be a locked cover on the outlet.

[PoliticAverse]

51. Isn't this the type of case that gets dismissed by a Judge with a "don't do that again...

without getting permission first". ?

[FSogol]

55. Of course. But this is a wonderful opportunity for DUers to play, "I'm more liberal than you" and

bash the police.

[Old and In the Way]

53. Wonder what the costs are to taxpayers to ticket and process this?

Since we don't have an infrastructure of pay for juice charging stations, perhaps we can get Big Oil to help defray these LE administrative costs. Afterall, it's in their interests to make electric energy use a criminal offense. And drinking water/bathroom facilities...don't get me started on these kind of theft crimes!

I hope no one here ever recharges their phones in a public place!

[petronius]

56. It's a good thing the cop didn't see him take a sip from the drinking fountain

and drop some trash in the nearby bin - he could have racked up his 3-strikes right then and there...

[left on green only]

60. To My Way Of Thinking He Was Utilizing A Public Facility

If he had taken a big gulp of water from the school's drinking fountain, would his "crime" have been any less? What if he had used the water in the fountain to top off the radiator in his gas gulping, air polluting SUV? Are there those who would crucify him for that as well?

If he had plugged into the power at a private residence, without permission from the owner, it would have been a different story, but this was a public facility and he was, through the payment of his taxes, already paying for a portion of the power that he used.

If the school had been private, and his child was a registered student for whom he was paying tuition to attend, then I think he was entitled to use the power without any question whatsoever.

[RC]

63. Reading down through the posts on this thread, I can see that DU has a bunch of

3rd Way, DLC, DINO, New Democrats, conservative liberals and whatever other names closet Republicans go by now.

The worst that should have happened is for the police to tell him to unplug his car and not do that again. End of problem.
But like someone else said, this is Amerika. Ya gotta disparage those better (read more well off) than you, for behaving as you can't.


Edited to add:
I concur. left on green only has a reasonable explanation.

[Motown_Johnny]

67. If this is stealing then so is drinking from a fountain in the school's hallway

This is insane.


If they don't want people plugging into their exterior outlets then they can put them on switches and turn them off when not needed.

[jmowreader]

68. Reading the whole article may prove informative

The officer, his marked patrol vehicle and the electric vehicle were all in clear view of the tennis courts. Eventually, a man on the courts told the officer that the man playing tennis with him owned the vehicle. The officer went to the courts and interviewed the vehicle owner. The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door. The officer told him that was not true and that the vehicle and existing damage was already on his vehicles video camera from when he drove up.

...

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

69. It sure does. I don't know if I missed all the extra detail or it was updated.

But the additional detail sheds a whole new light.

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. +1 Context is king. n/t