General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNext, say goodbye to the waiters and waitresses
But service sector jobs should be OK, right? You still need people to serve other people, right?
About that:
Score one for the machines. On Tuesday, Applebees announced plans to install a tablet at every table in its 1,860 restaurants across the United States. Customers will be able to use the devices to order food, pay the bill, and ignore their dining companions by playing video games.
...
It mustn't be understated what is at stake here. There's a reason the big money boys want to cut "entitlements" so much. Under the current social and economic order, in 20 years or so there really won't be enough tax revenue from jobs to support the welfare state we have. And the welfare state we have won't be half as big as will be needed to take on the social need when the natural unemployment rate is 20%.
The big money boys can see where all of this is headed: either the developed world's middle classes start learning to live with a lot less, or their tax rates are going back up to Eisenhower levels. Or there will be a revolution and dramatic re-ordering of the social and economic contract.
The next few decades are going to be a very interesting time, particularly with climate change thrown into the mix. It's going to entail a dramatic battle of ideas between two very different solutions to a vexing problem complex human societies have never really faced before. In that battle, the neoliberal "New Democrats" aren't all that different from the hardcore conservatives. When you have 25% real unemployment/underemployment and massive climate disruption, all of a sudden a bunch of other issues that separate the corporate New Dems from the Bible-thumping Republicans start to become trivial by comparison.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/12/next-say-goodbye-to-waiters-and.html
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)enquire about its quality, clear their plates and refill their drinks?
Will never happen.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)for 12 hours shifts with no overtime & no benefits.
It not only can happen, it absolutely will happen. Did you miss this part?
Lindsay
(3,276 posts)when the food is ready for you to pick up from a service counter. You clear your own table. And if you don't clear the table, you'll be tazed as you try to leave the premises.
I am only kinda joking.
B2G
(9,766 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)This is a chain that is only one step above McDonalds in quality. Maybe they're fine with being only a half-step ahead of them.
Screw chains, go to mom-and-pop restaurants where you'll always be treated well when you become a regular. With me, that's often been as early as my second visit, because I usually engage the waitstaff and owner (if on premises) with conversation the first time out. The Applebee's server doesn't have time for that.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think a lot of the stuff at Crapplebee's is premade and nuked.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Nothing worse than talking to someone taking your order through the speaker, they invariably get it wrong.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)And I just have to say, that type of self serve system wouldn't work for Hooters ... it's the Hooters they come to ''enjoy'' not the food.
B2G
(9,766 posts)I am acquainted with the fine dining experience and Applebees ain't it.
I said it wouldn't work for fine dining, not that it might not suffice at Applebees.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Except for the part about being tazed. You're probably not far off, though!
matt819
(10,749 posts)The sensor will note that you didn't detour to the dish drop off and charge you additional as you exit.
jsr
(7,712 posts)JimboBillyBubbaBob
(1,389 posts)this is going to be a long feature.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)Three hour day, three day a week jobs that provide a decent standard of living. Also the flying cars.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)FSogol
(45,488 posts)probably helps up sale deserts, expensive drinks, etc. To read some culture changing, world destroying agenda into using a modern method to sell things seems odd.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)So there's definitely some numbers and trends to work with.
It's something that some people will gravitate towards using more than others when at the table. The kids were all over it, I was curious by my mother had zero interest in it.
This is another technology-panic moment for a lot of things.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Somebody still needs to deliver the food to the table. I'm sure the author of this opinion piece thought about that.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Consider that self-driving cars already exist, driving a car is a more complicated and far more critical task than delivering food to a table.
I grew up thinking of Star Trek flip communicators as Science Fiction, now I have something that looks a lot like it but also does video and a lot of other functions besides just talking to people in my junk drawer because it's obsolete.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)My daughter and I eat at a place in Crown Center (KC) and weight staff isn't needed for food delivery. Instead, they use model trains.
http://www.fritzskc.com/ It's always packed and the food, while greasy, isn't too bad as a once-in-a-while treat.
Honestly, Applesbees could come up with any number of delivery methods in this manner.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)xmas74
(29,674 posts)We usually head up to Crown Center this time of year, just for the decorations. I know the kid will want to stop and eat.
It's not bad but man it can be greasy, especially the chili.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)Servers still come to see if the food is acceptable, refill drinks, etc.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)I usually see kids working.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I can check out quickly at the self check out in stores. it is nice to have something keep a running total for me and to tell me the price of things where there is no label. Plus I get to pack my self as I go along and no bread on the bottom of the bag.
We will still need beauticians and designers. I have to admit, the idea of having your body scanned into a machine and then having clothes made to order is tempting as well.
Look at it this way, they will still need people to chase down the dine and dash people. Or to fix wrong orders. and to return food under microwaved to the kitchen.
I already don't go to those restaurants, I tend to go to the family owned/run restaurants in my neighborhood. The food is better. I am lucky to live in an area with a lot of good chefs. Although I do go to one sushi buffet restaurants, but you can watch all the sushi being hand made, so that should make up for serving myself.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)I'm sorry but I cannot tip because I don't agree with your non-lifestyle and how you don't live life.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)pediatricmedic
(397 posts)http://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/home/feature_3d_food_prt.htm
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/thanksgiving-meal-future-test-tube-turkey-bug-casserole-3-d-2D11663526
I am confused as to whether this will be yummy or icky. Time will tell.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)People will drop them and beverages get dumped on them. Replacing them will cost a bundle and it seems like another avenue for identity theft.
unblock
(52,253 posts)the order-taking part of waitstaff's duties is not the biggest but is the most error-prone.
people probably would still want someone to make a recommendation or explain the dish.
plus, you need someone to bring the food, check up on the table, etc.
the real displacement would happen when they start using robot carts to deliver food to the table and so on.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)If implemented properly, a tablet based ordering system would have reviews, video, ingredients, and all sorts of other things to help you make up your mind. The sorting algorithm to make recommendations would be pretty simple to write too "Are you in the mood for a meat dish or a pasta dish?" "Meat? great! Any particular kind?" "Chicken? Good choice! We have a couple of great italian dishes and a chophouse style dish. Do you think you'd be interested in either of those?" "Italian? And you want to spend less than $15 on your plate? I'd recommend the Chicken Primavera, it comes with...."
I write computer software all day long. In the grand scheme of things, this would be a trivial application, and it would probably provide better information than most servers could. If it's tied into some sort of identity system, you could even use it to record a customers preferences to make even better recommendations next time.
unblock
(52,253 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)unblock
(52,253 posts)and *that's* the upside of tipping well and establishing a rapport.
we have a few regular restaurants and always request our favorite waitstaff. you have to constantly tip well, but it's well worth it even if you're doing purely for selfish reasons.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)These days you either toe the company line or you are outtathere.
unblock
(52,253 posts)they'd much rather serve the stale food to those merely passing through town.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)That may be true for small restaurants, but in chains like Applebees the waiters are unlikely to know anything about the "freshness" of the food in the kitchen. And they'll push whatever dishes their managers tell them to push.
Besides, people who are dining at Applebee's aren't exactly foodies who are going to get bent out of shape over two day old fish. It's a fair bet that everything Applebees sells was frozen anyway.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)If you can identify the user, the tablet could actually tailor its recommendations for repeat customers. By remembering whether they prefer beef or pasta, vegetarian dishes or steaks, spicy foods or bland, the tablet could be far more responsive and ALWAYS recommend a dish they'd like, without any prompting at all.
Navigational trees are a simple way to accomplish a simple task. Tag clouds or pseudo AI could be used too. There are lots of different ways to accomplish this.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Some supermarket chains are already using loyalty cards to craft different prices based on their knowledge of the buyer's shopping patterns. Some e-tailers also present different options based on what they know about the customer. Sometimes the known customer gets the better deal, sometimes it's the unknown one.
If tablets only present the same information to every customer, they're fairly benign. I do see it as a way customers will justify lower tips though since the servers will be less relevant.
mockmonkey
(2,820 posts)They'll use a drone.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Until Applebee's starts losing a dozen or more tablet computers every day to theft.
B2G
(9,766 posts)pipi_k
(21,020 posts)install software that would interact with a security system a limited distance from each table. Sirens, buzzers, and bells that would go off if the tablet crossed over into unauthorized space...
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)A tablet to pop-up italian recommendations because that's what you ordered last week, so obviously you don't feel like chinese or 'murkin or 'not italian' today.
Sirens and alarms going off every 5 minutes.
Your spouse totally ignoring you because he or she is totally wrapped up in some mind-numbing video game.
What's not to love?
JVS
(61,935 posts)unblock
(52,253 posts)doesn't sound that difficult to protect against.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)The devices were fastened to the table. They weren't that big. The nice thing about this is you could order something without waiting for the waitress to check on you. You also could just summons the waitress.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)..and they perform a limited number of tasks.
..and the price of tablets is dropping at a rate where soon no one will get great profit out of swiping them.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)A few years back, some dopes in Milwaukee attempted to steal an ATM by tying a log chain around it and attaching the other end to their bumper.
Didn't end well for them.
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)And that is no servers, bartenders taking orders and serving food and doing dishes. I cannot tell you how many newer places have opened that have totally cut out the server in this fashion. The bartender does everything, including bussing, dishwashing and table delivery.... with a minimal staff in the kitchen.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)The Bar Rescue series will have lots of bars to get back on track if that happens a lot.
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)These bars are all very successful. They are teeeny weeny too usually... (Save on labor and rent you know) It is the casual dining market we are talking about here......Which is the fastest growing segment right now. The 20 taps and burger type places. No more job specific, the bartender does it all.... And the places are packed always. Order at the counter, and the bartender brings you your food and accoutrements. Then they buss and do the dishes.......
it really saves on the patron as well, who can cut the tip in a lot of cases (according to the bartenders) when there is copious amounts of beer and a meal involved. Instead of two 20% tips,(server and bartender) and added tax, together might be 15% and still be a pretty hefty tip because there really wasn't service. Of course the bartender doesn't have to share with anyone either so they can work fewer tables and make more ducats.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Been seeing places like that since I was a child. And I turn 52 next month.
Bartendar works alone at the closest place to my house, in fact. She has a rough go of it, too. Some places have a grill behind the bar. This place has a separate kitchen. So if she's got something cooking, she has to keep moving back and forth between the kitchen and the bar.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Ya know, one of those dreams that is mostly for dreaming.
Wife and I love eating at the bar. Service tends to be better, usually get a table faster, and there's frequently some good people watchin' to boot. I have an idea for a restaurant that is nothing but one long bar. Probably has some "shape" to it so there are "corners" where 4 people could "sit" with each other. Maybe some small "loops" where they sit across from each other with a "slot" between them to allow the server/bartender/busser to work. Has the added benefit of using table space a bit more efficiently. No more partys of 2 taking up a table for 4 and that kind of thing.
Probably wouldn't work, I have alot of business ideas that probably wouldn't work. But there are places where the bar is often hopping long after the restaurant is done.
K.O. Stradivarius
(115 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)the attractive food servers on the floor - and I don't mean that applies to everyone, but it is one reason that I personally enjoy eating out.
Take that small pleasure away, and you are reducing my enjoyment of the restaurant experience.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Custom designed to fit your particular tastes.
After that, they'll figure out a way that you won't even be needed to eat the food.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Or you could have thor or a giant praying mantis. I love this idea.
LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)kinda weird...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)fucking creeps and weirdos!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Apparently you have.
LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)I am not a baby.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)That must be why they don't let me out much.
LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)i.e., generally good looking people.
Come to think of it, in LA, it seems have of people throughout most industries are aspiring actors or actresses.
LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)Still. Kinda creepy.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)are those words a better description of what takes place?
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)However, I'm pretty sure you'll find attractive patrons to check out while eating.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Agatha Christie's Miss Marple mystery?
We are introduced to a character who is a business tycoon; he's on the phone, barking at someone, and his secretary walks in to give him a cup of tea. As she puts it down next to him, he pinches her ass gleefully. It's a trite cliche - the leering Benny Hill old man and the young, buxom blonde, bubble-butt bimbo getting her butt and boobs pinched.
So, long-winded way of saying that I hardly think admiring servers is weird.
Johonny
(20,851 posts)and it kind of failed. No one paid for the games (Who doesn't have a smart phone filled with games?). People wanted to split bills, order off menu, order specialty drinks... frankly it didn't work well and people didn't use them. People want service and will tip to have good service.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)A few early bumps in the road?
Johonny
(20,851 posts)People that pay $ will expect service. Places like Applebees will become more like fast food places. I mean if McDonalds replaced the guy at the register with a machine and credit card reader would people notice much drop in service. Medium end places I've been to that tried it quickly went back to normal service. People didn't use it. It is all how you want to imagine your business. Some places don't mind appearing and feeling fast foods. Some places market themselves as a restaurant.
Retrograde
(10,137 posts)For you young whippersnappers, Automat was a chain of proto fast food restaurants, mainly in big cities. They had a wall with little compartments each displaying one of the various foods offered: if you saw something you liked, you put your nickels in, opened the door for that slot, and took it. Back then, you needed humans to make the food and keep the compartments stocked, but I'm sure the PTB will find a way to automate that.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)what most younger folks know as vending machines are small.. automats were like cafeterias
They were all over big cities back in the day
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)And vending machines are one of the reasons they're not around any more. That and McDonald's.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)the Horn and Hardart automat in downtown Philadelphia. I thought it was a lot of fun to pick out my food.
cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)They are all over Amsterdam.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Tourist guidebooks warn you away from them. I much prefer the brown cafes. And the "coffee" houses.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)we can do it
(12,189 posts)bluedigger
(17,086 posts)But then, I avoid places like Applebee's, if I can. If they want to be a high end McDonald's, I'm okay with that.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)On the other hand, if one enjoys eating over cooked cardboard with sauce......
Blue Owl
(50,427 posts)Service with a mechanical indifference...
Dash87
(3,220 posts)It's unfortunate that jobs are lost, but technology also creates jobs. Not using new technology because it will replace a human is backwards and the height of foolishness.
While it may seem bad in the short term, in the long term this is how technological progress happens and our quality of life improves. Things like this cut costs and improve businesses' ability to operate. As the technology becomes inexpensive, they make starting a small business easier. This is turn replaces the lost jobs and makes even more jobs.
Why have waiters and waitresses when you can have machines do it better? Why not send those waiters and waitresses to school and get them high paying jobs (like working on robots, computers, etc.)?
In the short term, won't this also make it easier for the wait staff? They won't have to run over and check on customers every 5 minutes. At the moment, this seems like more of a job aid than anything.
LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)CFLDem
(2,083 posts)liskddksil
(2,753 posts)First there's scant evidence that the number of jobs being lost to automation are being replaced by higher-order jobs. Not everyone is wired to be a programmer, so the less service jobs out there leads to more poverty, unrest, etc.
Second with less face-to-face contact with other humans, opportunities for social trust are lost. For example, in this year's GSS social trust indicators have greatly declined. This social capital is so important for Democratic society and when it wanes it is not good.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)We shipped out our manufacturing to china, mexico and elsewhere. The damage is done. That we're quibbling over jobs that rely on the kindness of strangers (tips) as opposed to talking about what it will take to get real jobs back in america shows how far we have declined.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)Get rid of email...it puts mail carriers out of work.
Get rid of direct dialing on telephones...it puts switchboard operators out of work.
Get rid of the Internet altogether...it puts librarians out of work.
And on and on.
With every new invention and innovation comes the cries from a few that people will be put out of work. Yes, industries and jobs are made obsolete with inventions. But new ones are created at the same time.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)A high paying job working on robots and computers? Why have people do that when you can have a machine do it better?
I guess the ultimate goal would be a completely automated world where humans are left to do nothing but create art or something. But then why have people doing that if you could make a machine that could do it better?
Why not cut down all the trees and build a robotic tree of some sort that could do the job of a tree better? Why not build a better robotic fish so that we can pollute whatever stream, lake, or ocean we want? Why not get rid of all organic life and replace it with machinery? Nothing would get sick. Nothing would get hurt. Nothing would die. Nothing could do it better.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)Having tablets at restaurant tables = value adding. Making robot fish or metal trees= pointless and generates no value.
If we could have robots autonomously building and maintaining other robots, that would be even better. Efficiency improves the quality of living for all.
liskddksil
(2,753 posts)I believe doing meaningful work and activities with other real life people creates a higher quality of life. People staring at screens all day probably doesn't, as it makes us talk to each other less. In turn we trust each other less (per the latest General Social Survey). In turn our collective social capital that brings about an informed and active citizenry and functioning government is frayed.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Where does your line end? If the highly skilled and well paying jobs that will be created by sending former waiters and waitresses to school ended up being building metal trees to replace normal trees, would you do it?
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)going to stop advancing just because we decide not to take every available opportunity to fuck workers over.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I know the theory is that we can automate all these tedious jobs and the humans can move on to just doing the "important" or "high-paying" jobs.
It's not working like that in practice anymore. For example, the plan was the people who lost their factory job to automated manufacturing would re-train and get some sort of "high-tech" job to replace it. And get better pay to boot!
Unfortunately, there were not enough "high-tech" jobs to replace all of those manufacturing jobs. And automation did not create a large enough swath of high-tech jobs. So most of those factory workers stumbled around into whatever work they could find in the service industry, that paid much worse.
The problem is that automation replaces more labor than it produces. It always has. For a time, that was fine because we were limited by labor capacity - inventing the Combine harvester moved a ton of farm labor into the cities, where they could find work because there was unmet demand for labor.
But we've reached the point where we are not strongly constrained by labor any more. So automating more stuff doesn't increase total output, it starts idling labor.
We're going to have to start changing things to deal with that. What specifically changes will depend on who's steering. Big business wants to drive us all down to serfdom, creating the "Hunger Games" world.
But there are alternatives - what if 32/hours a week became what was considered a full-time job, with hourly pay going up such that take-home remained the same? (ex. $10/hr becomes $12.50/hr). Means more people working to produce the same output, because there's one less day of output per person. And those people would have more free time during which to consume goods and services, creating more jobs.
Essentially, we need to avoid the dystopian hellscape by increasing leisure time. Which means we need to stop letting big business steer, as they have for the last 30ish years.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)for the sake of technological progress. It went from "alright, I'll chip away at this arrowhead, and it'll make my life a little easier", to, "ok, umm, why do we need you here again, and what are we paying you for?"
phantom power
(25,966 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)They already have replaced food with cardboard.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)LionsTigersRedWings
(108 posts)the article states that customers are going to ignore their dining companions by playing video games.
How stupid do you have to be to think that shit doesn't already happen!!!
It's called smart phones stupid! People don't need to use the tablet that they order food from to play video games, we have cell phones for that!
stupid article.
paulkienitz
(1,296 posts)and as far as I've seen, it hasn't yet had very much impact on the amount of work done by wait staff, except maybe at payment time.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)good waitress with repeat customers. they started cutting her hours and changed her shift because she was making to much money. so she quit and found a waitress job at a local greek steak house. the place is always busy and the food is excellent. today i drove by the the place she used to work...a few cars in the lot but the buffalo wings parking lot was packed.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)or more. It's a train place where you order over the phone and then a train brings your food.
Don't see what the big deal is. Should I boycott the train place too?
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)The "ignore their dining companions" comment is just asinine -- smart phones and personal gaming systems have allowed for this for years.
I'd be all for the table systems reducing servers to food runners if, in exchange, they'd get a living wage and not have to depend on tips.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Oh noes!!! All the jobz are gone now!!!
This article reeks of speculation which is then propped into a giant straw-man hyperbole laced rant about the loss of jobs.
indie9197
(509 posts)for posting the receipt from that pastor that stiffed her on the tip????