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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFlorida Cop Arrested For Wearing ‘Anonymous’ Mask Warns ‘There’s A War Coming’
By Scott Kaufman
Friday, December 6, 2013 16:01 EST
The police officer arrested for refusing to remove his Anonymous mask at an anti-Obamacare rally gave an interview to Red Pill Philosophy and WeAreChange in which he said that theres a war coming and its time to fight.
Ericson Harrell wore the Guy Fawkes mask, he said, because its a symbol of protest.
I always keep my mask in my truck, my cape in the truck, the flag in truck and everything, he said. So I put on the mask and the cape, grabbed the flag, and I stood on the corner.
Eventually a female police officer confronted him, at which point he asserted my right to free speech, and tried to convince the officer that the anti-masking statute didnt apply to him, because that statute was not put into place for peaceful protests, not for figures just standing on the side of the road trying to express their first amendment rights.
After her supervisor showed up, he was arrested for refusing to remove his mask or identify himself.
MORE...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/06/florida-cop-arrested-for-wearing-anonymous-mask-warns-theres-a-war-coming/
BeyondGeography
(39,370 posts)Poor guy.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)He keeps a mask, a cape, and a flag in the car
ummm ok yea you
You never know when looting will break out, don't want to be without you mask and cape. and the flag of course is for legally claiming the newly found property as your own
pangaia
(24,324 posts)THAT is repubs biggest problem.
The truth has been right in front of us, so big we couldn't see it.
They need to get laid. Using birth control of their choice, of course, so they don't reproduce.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)After all, that would only compound the problem for everyone concerned
Response to Heather MC (Reply #3)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Any blood that is shed will be on THEIR hands!
This police officer should be removed from duty immediately - he is clearly unstable.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The "beyond right wing" fringe media, the conspiracy sites, and the Paulbot Brigade are having a field day with this.
I think the guy is off the rails, as well.
lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)And he sure as hell doesn't belong in law enforcement.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Just sayin'
rug
(82,333 posts)Paladin
(28,254 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)It's not usually right-wing cops wearing them.
painesghost
(91 posts)I second that. I'd really need to know all the details, but just wearing a mask at a political rally shouldn't be a crime. It be like outlawing the wearing of the Burqa at political rallies which I can see some rightwing nut using this incident to push for.
MADem
(135,425 posts)like Halloween. NYC is one large city that has a "no mask" law in place.
Masks are common in commission of robberies, you see.
The origin of anti-mask laws in some parts of the country have to do with the KKK.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)One is that the RW seems to be trying to rip the symbol off from the LW. Two is that cops shouldn't be blabering about revolution. They have a first amendment right to do so but they don't have a first amendment right to be cops. Sort of like that chief of police shooting guns and fantasizing about killing his "libtard" enemies on youtube. He has an absolute right to say those things but no inalienable right to be chief of police.
MADem
(135,425 posts)like that mask are Rand Paul/Ayn Rand/libertarian assholes. It's all about the "revolution" with them, and their "freedom" to not have to give a shit about people in need of a social safety net, not adherence to a left wing philosophy.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)I thinks the Guy Faulks mask crowd is sort of where the rw libertarian weirdo meets the lw anarchist weirdo on the political continuum.
MADem
(135,425 posts)idealism.
RC
(25,592 posts)DLC, 3rd Way, DINO's New Democrats and anyone else that thinks they are Democrats because they voted for someone with a (D) by their name.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)giving a single shit about anyone else. They tend to not vote for anyone, they just criticize those who do.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Wasn't he a religious terrorist?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)That's essentially the reason.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Wintour introduced Fawkes to Robert Catesby, who planned to assassinate King James I and restore a Catholic monarch to the throne. The plotters secured the lease to an undercroft beneath the House of Lords, and Fawkes was placed in charge of the gunpowder they stockpiled there. Prompted by the receipt of an anonymous letter, the authorities searched Westminster Palace during the early hours of 5 November, and found Fawkes guarding the explosives. Over the next few days, he was questioned and tortured, and eventually he broke. Immediately before his execution on 31 January, Fawkes jumped from the scaffold where he was to be hanged and broke his neck, thus avoiding the agony of the mutilation that followed.
Fawkes became synonymous with the Gunpowder Plot, the failure of which has been commemorated in England since 5 November 1605. His effigy is traditionally burned on a bonfire, commonly accompanied by a firework display.
............
Ava Gadro
(36 posts)Not a good symbol imo. Let the wingnuts have him.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)that glorified a religious nutter. people that wear that mask in VAST majority have no idea who he was or what he stood for or what he was trying to do when captured.
if it's in a history book, nobody knows anything about it. bastardize a story for a MOVIE with a popular starlet in it and all of a sudden everyone's an expert... of the fiction.
sP
demwing
(16,916 posts)We all think our own smell fresh and sweet, while those we disagree with stink like rotten meat.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)if it's in a history book, nobody knows anything about it. bastardize a story for a MOVIE with a popular starlet in it and all of a sudden everyone's an expert... of the fiction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta
On Guy Fawkes Night in 1997 London, a young woman, Evey Hammond, who is walking to a friends house, comes across two men who are actually members of the state secret police, called "the Finger." Preparing to rape and kill her, the Fingermen are dispatched by V, a cloaked anarchist wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, who remotely detonates explosives at the Houses of Parliament before bringing Evey to his contraband-filled underground lair, the "Shadow Gallery". Evey tells V her life story, which reveals that a global nuclear war in the late 1980s has since triggered the rise of England's fascist, white supremacist government, Norsefire.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)so yes, the mask is worn because of the movie... not the comic.
sP
MADem
(135,425 posts)comic book...and of course, the comic book referenced an historical figure -- even fewer are aware of what he was all about, I would wager.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)What I know is what my own lying eyes have told me--that the mask, which is licensed by Warner Brothers, Inc., was rarely if ever seen before the V for Vendetta film (a Warner Brothers production) came out.
Now you can make of that what you will. Or you can read this full history, provided courtesy of our pals at Wikipedia, where they say pretty much the same thing I am saying:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_mask
Since the release in 2006 of the film V for Vendetta, the use of stylised "Guy Fawkes" masks, with moustache and pointed beard, has become widespread internationally among groups protesting against politicians, banks and financial institutions. The masks both conceal the identity and protect the face of individuals and demonstrate their commitment to a shared cause.[9][10]
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)If I wait long enough you can post it again.
MADem
(135,425 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... you're giving the Authoritarians A Sadz that will quickly turn to A Madz.
They absolutely HATE anything adopted by the 99%.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The only people thrilled about the "adoption" of a symbol manufactured for the benefit of the profit margin of Warner Brothers, Incorporated are the shareholders of that stock.
But hey...fight the power, at $10.52 plus shipping, on sale!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121085117456?lpid=82
I guess no one wants to pay $24.95 for the things, anymore!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)May they all get exactly what they deserve.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Only the young believe they are immortal.
That the stupidest comeback I've read all week.
Congrats, you're #1.
MADem
(135,425 posts)A bit revealing, that remark.
I regarded it as a conversation--you were looking for a contest, I guess.
Well, gee, you can be "the winner" if you'd like. No skin off my nose.
At the end of the day, though, ya can't take it with you, no matter if you're a materialist, or not. Yelling at me and calling my observations "stupid" won't change that.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... what you are has been "revealed" around here a long time ago.
MADem
(135,425 posts)to public office.
In that regard I find myself in complete accord with the goals of this website.
And if we're to get all up in this "revealing" game, your ugly little post--which I will memorialize here for posterity--seems to imply that being a Democrat who likes to see Democrats elected to public office is a bad thing--isn't that curious?
99Forever
139. Speaking of "revealing"...
View profile
... what you are has been "revealed" around here a long time ago.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Not "memorialize"!1!!!11!!11!1!1
Have you no mercy?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Do go on. Let it all out, now--don't hold back!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... is watching the Turd Way and all of it's minions circle the bowl. Enjoy the ride.
MADem
(135,425 posts)What clever repartee! Turds circling the bowl!
I hope you didn't strain yourself too much coming up with that one!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Hmmmmmm?
MADem
(135,425 posts)All I ever see from you is bashing of Democrats. Oh, and petty little personal insults, like the ones you have been tossing at me in this thread.
You never talk about that campaign you volunteered for, or that rally for a Dem that you went to, or that contribution you made to a re-election campaign, or that GOTV work you did.
All I've ever seen from you could best be described as whinging. And that's on a good day.
You have a disruptive, petulant nature, and your pathetic little "poop referenced" insults are childish, as well.
And you wonder why you get Dangerfielded?
It will be interesting to see if you're able to keep a civil tongue in your head once the 2016 election season gets underway, assuming you stick around to drop your pearls of wisdom hither and yon.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... is that you'll support anyone that says they are a "Democrat," I actually require them to BE Democrats.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Barack Obama. I GOTV for them too--what do you do, save whinge on the internet at people who do actual work to get Democrats elected?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)As such,I've had my fill of your DINO nonsense. You're gone, permanently. Bub bye.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Come on back when you can tell me which Democrats you helped get elected to public office, now, you hear?
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)joshcryer
(62,270 posts)The comic is better than the movie though though the movie was faithful to the story.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Makes me more of an expert.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Just replace whatever character isn't working in the link with the HTML code (note once you press "preview" or "post" it goes away in the edit / text box, you have to do it right before posting and if you edit you have to put them back in).
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)that is why i picked the movie as the starting point...
sP
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and yeah... the comic had such A HUGE following before the movie that EVERYONE was wearing that stupid mask. Sorry you don't like the timeline...
sP
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Funny, you mentioning timeline.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)as to when the V mask took off in popularity? hmmmm...
sP
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)comic from the 80's and movie from 2005... masks become popular in 2008 with protestors who know little of and care less for history... sound like my timeline bears out but you probably still don't like it.
sP
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)but bereft of anything useful as is the par for your responses in this thread. as you have nothing to add, good day.
sP
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Six or eight people, Housh reckons, hashed out a press release. It read like the script to a movie trailer, so somebody proposed turning it into a video, combing Archive.org to dig up images of rolling clouds and ominous background music available under a Creative Commons license. They kept fiddling with the ending of the script, using Anonymous-associated phrases already in circulation. Another contributor proposed a conclusion: We are Anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive, we do not forget. Pause. Expect us.
Everyone in the channel erupts, Housh recalls. Like Oh my god. Youve done it. You have done it! We win this game. The script was fed into AT&T text-to-speech software, and became the videos creepy voice-over. Next the group created a Web site. For a logo, they considered imagery that had been floating around 4Chan and elsewhere, including the headless suit-man. SomeoneHoush says the person wishes to remain anonymoussuggested imposing that image over a U.N.-style globe logo. Then a question mark was added where the figures head should be. In what seems like a missed opportunity, the Anonymous logo did not appear anywhere in the video. We werent branding experts or anything, Housh explains.
Fair enough, but the video really is a fine bit of propagandawith 4.6 million YouTube viewsmixing the snotty but intimidating hacker gang vibe with rhetoric that not only transcended the nihilistic, but sounded rather righteous. Excited by their surprisingly large audience, participants in Anonymous anti-Scientology efforts decided to organize in-person protestsa challenge, since they were already being accused of various illegal activities. (The Church of Scientology eventually outed Housh, and pressed a variety of criminal charges against him; those were ultimately settled pretrial, but today he describes himself as an internet activist who observes Anonymousnot a member.)
The need to remain anonymous at live protests led the group to adopt its now-familiar mask depicting a highly stylized visage of Guy Fawkes, an early-17th-Century British figure who was executed following a foiled plot to assassinate King James I. Though Brits have long used effigies of Fawkes in their Guy Fawkes Night celebrations, this particular, cartoonish representation comes from the 1980s comic-book series, V for Vendetta: A vigilante character wore such a mask while overthrowing a totalitarian British government in an imagined dystopian future. In 2006, the series became a film. Also in 2006, the mask began to appear in a popular 4Chan meme called Epic Fail Guy. According to Housh, the suggestion to use the Fawkes mask as protest gear was almost immediate. But some Anons werent convinced that the Fawkes mask was right, so they made a short list of alternatives: a Batman mask, classic masquerade masks, a few others. Then we called comics and costume shops, all over the world, Housh says, checking availability and price, and the V mask won out: Its available, its cheap, and its in every city. (The actual Fawkes had nothing to do with it, for us, Housh says.)
An unexpected windfall for Warner Brothers, Incorporated!
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)in a long time.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Ironically the wearers, if they're buying the WB and not a "knock off" are paying the WB royalties.
I'm saying though that those familiar with the mask, particularly those on the left and in Occupy, tend to wear it as a representation of V, the comic. Most would recognize the irony of wearing a mask popularized in the mainstream, characterizing a politically neutral revenge seeking character, representing left-wing ideals.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)the comic must have also done little to promote the historical Guy Fawkes. it is comical, if you'll excuse the pun, that the historical person would NOT be chosen as a symbol...
i would still wager that the VAST VAST majority of those wearing them are simply doing so for reasons that even they would normally protest against as you point out.
sP
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)The symbolism had nothing to do with promoting Guy Fawkes' views.
Think of it more as if it was in the US he'd have don'd an Uncle Sam Mask.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)Fawkes was a religious nutter and terrorist. he got caught... he was dealt with in pretty heinous fashion. they still burn him in effigy to this day. the people who wear the mask don't identify with anything he stood for. and if they KNEW what he stood for i think they would be less likely to don the mask...
sP
villager
(26,001 posts)...shadow, as the creators found a way to use a once disregarded medium, "comics," to make salient political and social satires, of the kind films and TV weren't doing.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)mass adoption of the V mask... without the movie it would have never happened.
oh well...
sP
villager
(26,001 posts)Which hasom the comic, which in turn based it on historical Guy Fawkes design.
And the comic probably wouldn't have happened except for the rightward drift of the west, since then.
Which has, of course, only gotten worse
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)novels that were known to some as the authors first presented them many more came to know the filmed versions. This is true of say, Shakespeare's Henry the Fifth as well. The films got a wider audience than Will did at the Globe.
The origin of materials from an adapted piece is the source material, not the adaptation. Without the movie, the adoption of the mask would not have happened may be true, but far more true is the fact that without the comic there would not have been any movie of the story using the mask, which was drawn in the comic as it is designed in the film.......
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)my previous comment stands... i don't know why it is so hard for people to accept that the MOVIE is the reason for that laughable mask regardless of the ORIGIN of the mask... 99% of the people who put that damned thing on have no idea the history...
sP
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I knew gay people wearing pink triangles in the 80s. I wonder how those who were required to wear them, under very different circumstances, would feel about that?
Where new meanings arise, sometimes the subversion or conversion of old iconography paves the way.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)seriously
MADem
(135,425 posts)actually digging down to the root of the symbolism!
Those masks have made WB a pretty penny! They own the rights to that particular image!
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)Georgia for sure, have statutes prohibiting wearing masks in public. I understand it to be in response to the Klan.
I don't know if it's ever been challenged.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)We live in a corporate surveillance state where dissenters are identified and surveilled, and facial recognition software will be an increasing part of that. Can't have inconvenient citizens wearing masks.
To the corporate One Percent, citizens exercising their Constitutional rights are the enemy.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I had the sudden thought, though that you can probably fake out FR sw with the right kind of makeup job.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)Evolution of abuse of a once justifiable concept. You're quite correct, the Surveillance Society is monstrous and dystopian.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)In Canada: Bill C-309, which bans the wearing of masks during a riot or other unlawful assembly became law on June 19, 2013. Those convicted of it face up to 10 years in prison. Determining whats an unlawful assembly nowadays is become awfully fast and loose.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)These are the people we're supposed to believe because, "we have more in common than we have differences".
Politics is not a team sport.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)876.12 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on public way. No person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing any mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter upon, or be or appear upon any lane, walk, alley, street, road, highway, or other public way in this state.
876.13 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on public property. No person or persons shall in this state, while wearing any mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter upon, or be, or appear upon or within the public property of any municipality or county of the state.
876.14 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on property of another. No person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing a mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, demand entrance or admission or enter or come upon or into the premises, enclosure, or house of any other person in any municipality or county of this state.
876.15 Wearing mask, hood, or other device at demonstration or meeting. No person or persons over 16 years of age, shall, while wearing a mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, hold any manner of meeting, make any demonstration upon the private property of another unless such person or persons shall have first obtained from the owner or occupier of the property his or her written permission to so do.
876.155 Applicability; ss. 876.12-876.15. The provisions of ss. 876.12-876.15 apply only if the person was wearing the mask, hood, or other device:
(1) With the intent to deprive any person or class of persons of the equal protection of the laws or of equal privileges and immunities under the laws or for the purpose of preventing the constituted authorities of this state or any subdivision thereof from, or hindering them in, giving or securing to all persons within this state the equal protection of the laws;
(2) With the intent, by force or threat of force, to injure, intimidate, or interfere with any person because of the persons exercise of any right secured by federal, state, or local law or to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from exercising any right secured by federal, state, or local law;
(3) With the intent to intimidate, threaten, abuse, or harass any other person; or
(4) While she or he was engaged in conduct that could reasonably lead to the institution of a civil or criminal proceeding against her or him, with the intent of avoiding identification in such a proceeding.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)and you know it.
The purpose is to identify inconvenient citizens who dare protest the corporate state.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)I agree that great effort is made to ensure protestors are identified, but I don't think this is one of those cases.
ETA: After watching the video, I don't think he had a sign saying that a war is coming, so maybe section 4 applies, but that one is wafer thin.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)"take off the mask" and identify would be a lawful order
doesn't mean he couldn't put it back on
onenote
(42,700 posts)The Supreme Court has made it clear one doesn't have to identify oneself to the police unless there is a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. One can't circumvent that test by making the maintenance of one's anonymity itself a criminal act. You still need the reasonable suspicion of an intent to intimidate or engage in imminent criminal activity. Neither of which is present in a case where a lone individual engages in a politically themed protest wearing a Guy Fawkes mask.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)So you're wrong.
onenote
(42,700 posts)There are two relevant Florida statutes:
One is the "stop and frisk" law: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0900-0999/0901/Sections/0901.151.html
The other is the anti-mask law:http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html#FLORIDA
As required by Supreme Court precedent, both of these laws require the police to have reasonable suspicion that the person they are arresting was engaging in behavior intended to intimidate or otherwise was engaging in or about to engage in a criminal act. A single individual wearing a mask and engaging in a peaceful protest does not create the threshold predicate for the application of either of these laws, both under the plain text of those laws and as a matter of constitutional law.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)so the corporate state can identify and arrest them! Many people simply pretend never to have heard of Secret Directive Z! They are liars! Everybody knows about Secret Directive Z!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)It's pretty obvious that struggle4progress is right - it was an anti-KKK law. Your claim that its 'purpose now' is to stop people protesting the ACA is just your point of view, and irrelevant to the police officer.
Section 155 seems to say that he should have been allowed to continue protesting the ACA, to me. The reports don't sound like he was doing about covered in the 4 cases given.
Hekate
(90,674 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)Apparently introduced after the constitutionality of 12-15 (plus 16, which gives exemptions for masks of Halloween, necessary gas masks, and so on) was challenged in 1980:
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19801469393So2d1076_11314
I found that in a discussion from 2008 - precisely about the first major use of Guy Fawkes masks in Anonymous v. Scientology: https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/florida-and-other-states-mask-law-a-legal-perspective.194/
I'd say the police officer can say none of the 4 listed situations applies to him, so he should not have been forced to take off the mask.
On edit: re-reading the article, I notice he was also "charged with obstruction of traffic". That might make all the difference - if he was on the road interfering with traffic, rather than on the sidewalk, they may have had a valid reason to arrest him, which would then include the removal of the mask.
icymist
(15,888 posts)It has become old and already done.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Can't have inconvenient citizens going unidentified.
Protesting, after all, is no longer a First Amendment right, but a sign of potential terrorism against the Corporate State.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Even tho this idiot clearly has no clue what the Guy Fawkes mask symbolizes, how very ugly authoritarian of a law does it have to be before some of the sheeple around here understand that it's ALL part of the fascist agenda to silence ANY protest from We the People.
Even stupid people have rights.
snot
(10,524 posts)We should be arrested for committing crimes, not criminalizing what might be, but usually isn't, a pre-crime.
Occupiers were videotaped by police in the city where I live, so that in subsequent demonstrations, the police could target and pre-emptively arrest those that seemed most effective.
THAT is the real reason for the anti-mask statutes, i.m.h.o.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)onenote
(42,700 posts)Anti-masking laws are not something that I find worthy of applause. I doubt many DUers would be saluting the professionalism of a police officer that arrested any of these people.
Onedit: not sure if the image is showing. Its a photo of an Occupy Phoenix rally with several of the demonstrators wearing Guy Fawkes' masks.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)onenote
(42,700 posts)But there is no constitutional justification for criminalizing masks at a peaceful protest.
Would you support a law that made it illegal for you to hide your true identify on a website forum?
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)onenote
(42,700 posts)By being narrowly drawn, the law might survive constitutional challenge. But that makes the cop that demanded he take off his mask a bad cop, not a good cop.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)A good defense attorney would tear the prosecutor a new body orifice
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)I was a little hasty in my assessment.
Even if the police do a capable thorough job of investigation, interviews and writing the details, there are always loose ends that complicate the case.
There are always 2 sides to every story. Even if one side is lame !!
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)independently written pieces on a "story" like this, I may find enough details to be able to form a defensible opinion about what happened; but when there are only a handful of reports, it's much harder to find important details. Derivative reporting, based by stitching together other reports, is quite common, but it frequently introduces additional errors, and when a story "goes viral" the number of "reports," that contain pure fiction cut and paste from other erroneous "reports," grows enormously
At present, I'm still not sure whether the arrest was motivated by a violation of the Florida mask law, by a failure of the man to self-identify to police when asked, or by his interference with traffic. I have seen all these mentioned in one news report or other. Since reporters are paid to fill column-inches at a certain rate with certain deadlines, it would (of course) be unfair of me to criticize the early reports for leaving unanswered questions that might occur to readers later; but it also seems to me unreasonable to reach conclusions only from the early reports (because they are incomplete) or from highly-derivative later reports (because they might be filled errors uncritically cut and paste from other reports)
I currently have no idea whether one side or the other here is "lame." I'm personally not incredibly impressed by someone who fulminates vaguely while wearing a mask and cape and carrying a gun; and given the regular news stories here in the US about the wackos who decide random murder of strangers is the perfect solution for whatever-it-is-that-bothers-them, I'm not shocked and horrified that the police thought it a good idea to chat with him and find out who he was. To form an opinion about whether the arrest was justified or not, I'd want to know reliable details: if (as you suggest) the case is really lame, the DA won't prosecute, because the DA doesn't want to walk into court with a lame case and get the hairy eyeball from a judge who says Um, this is a really lame case! and tosses it immediately
Hekate
(90,674 posts)Even DUers can be shockingly ignorant of historical context sometimes.
onenote
(42,700 posts)That's the relevant context.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)(4) is especially broad since violating it is simply failing to identify by ... removing the mask.
"engaged in conduct that could reasonably lead to the institution of a civil or criminal proceeding against her or him"
"You failed to remove the mask and identify with a lawful identify order."
(3) is a bit more tricky, "a war is coming" depends on the context and tone, video would make it easier to try in court
Cops do not fuck around with failure to identify that is their holy grail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
onenote
(42,700 posts)Applying it that way would be struck down instantaneously since it is the equivalent of making it a crime simply to wear a mask. And despite what some on this thread may think, the Supreme Court held that is unconstitutional.
And (3) doesn't apply for the simple fact that he didn't say that to the policewoman who demanded he take off the mask; he said that in an interview given after his arrest.
Frankly, even if had been carrying a sign with that message, it would not have met the standard for applying the anti mask statute. A single person wearing a mask and holding a sign with a political message does not give rise to a reasonable suspicion that the intent is to intimidate or that criminal activity that threatens harm to others is imminent.
The Supreme Court has made clear that the First Amendment protects the right to communicate anonymously. "Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation and their ideas from suppression at the hand of an intolerant society." McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission, 514 U.S. 334, 357 (1995).
Like most rights, however, the right to anonymity is not absolute.
Notably, in 1968, the Supreme Court held on the basis of the Fourteenth Amendment right against self-incriminationthat the police may not demand that someone disclose their identity absent a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous (1) intended to conceal his identity, and (2) either intended to threaten, intimidate, or provoke the apprehension of violence, or acted with reckless disregard for the consequences of his conduct or a heedless indifference to the rights and safety of others, with reasonable foresight that injury would probably result."
This standard is commonly used in assessing, and has been added to, anti mask laws.
Laws exactly like the Florida law were used against Occupy protesters in a number of states. While the case as to whether the laws are constitutional as applied against a group wearing hoods that identify them as members of the Klan is a close call, a single individual, protesting a particular statute while wearing a guy fawkes mask is not. (Neither should it be a crime to wear a mask, such as a mask of Ronald Reagan or George Bush), while participating in a political protest. The purpose of wearing the mask in those types of cases is itself an expressive act, not primarily the hiding of one's identity. But hiding one's identity also can be a protected purpose because without anonymity, speech can be chilled. Protesters against oppressive regimes often wear masks for exactly that reason.
This guy arguably had both directly expressive reasons for wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and an indirect (protection of his identity out of fear of reprisals for having spoken out).
My bet is that the charges against him are dropped.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Of course the charges against him will be dropped.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)so perhaps (4) applies to him.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)-- Don McLean
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)I hope his insurance covers mental health issues.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)"They call him Anti-Obamacare Guy. He's my hero!"
"Oh waitaminute, I know who it is. That's Officer Harrell's truck over there."
MADem
(135,425 posts)Cha
(297,196 posts)Or not.
nyquil_man
(1,443 posts)that's all that matters.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)A cop should know that rule and comply. Probably didn't want to be identified as a police officer but then he should have taken off the mask and/or gone home. Oh, well.
onenote
(42,700 posts)reveal his identity?
The Constitution should protect one's right to engage in protected speech anonymously, just as it allows us to post here anonymously.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&issue_id=42007&category_ID=3
Or you can fight it and say they have no right but I am guessing a judge will say it is reasonable: http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/
My personal take is that you have to give a police officer your name--they will get it anyway if you push the point.
onenote
(42,700 posts)demanding that you identify yourself violates the Fourth Amendment, and in some circumstances (such as where you are engaging in protected speech) violates the First Amendment.
We should not be applauding the actions of the cop that demanded that someone engaging in peaceful protest reveal their identity any more than we would applaud a judge for ordering DU to disclose the actual names of every poster.
randome
(34,845 posts)There is a reason these laws were put into place.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]
onenote
(42,700 posts)After all, when the parade ends, you could rob a store.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Mardi Gras, Halloween or other organized, celebratory events.
If you're walking down the street with a mask on, you're going to attract some attention. If you're parading down the street in an organized group to the sound of music and cheering crowds, that is an entirely different circumstance and tone.
onenote
(42,700 posts)you're not intimidating anyone or doing anything to create a reasonable suspicion of criminality.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It suggests that the sign holder might be a participant in that war, and passers-by are potentially 'collateral damage.'
Some weirdo with a mask and a cape with such a sign would intimidate me, and I'd be concerned that the person had an interest in lighting off said war--I'd give that person a wide berth.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)You poor thing.
Anyway, "there's a war coming" is just what he said in the website interview afterwards. At the time of arrest, he was carrying an upside down US flag.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Onenote brought up the "sign" scenario and I was responding to that. We were speaking of hypothetical situations where people might be masked (parades, etc.). This guy wasn't carrying a sign, nor was he participating in a parade--but, you see, it's possible to speak hypothetically when people have a civil conversation. You might try it sometime.
But the bottom line is this, since you seem to have a focus on facts--FL has a "no mask" law. The police officer was within her rights to take issue with the guy. If you look at post 27, it's pretty clear that FL has good reason for such a law.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)"93. I'm sure if we wait long enough, you'll give us your view of it."
"113. Yes, those 'evil' authoritarians...!"
etc.
"There's a war coming" doesn't suggest the person with the sign is going to start it, any more than "the end is nigh" suggests the guy with the sign is about to bring down fire and brimstone.
I was civil. It's possible to be civil and laugh at a post.
The 'no mask' law requires a suspicion of hiding their identity while being liable to civil or criminal proceedings. Now, I have since noticed (and no-one else in this thread mentioned it before me) that he was also charged with obstruction of traffic, so it is possible after all that there was a valid reason for invoking the 'no mask' law; but this 'pretty clear' reason didn't seem to have been articulated by anyone, to me, since everyone was talking about a protest, without saying there could be obstruction of traffic involved.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You weren't civil--you were snarky. You have some sort of bug up your ass when it comes to me, for some reason--you're rarely if ever civil when I encounter you. Not quite seething but decidedly inhospitable. Not sure why, that's your issue.
Back to the point. FL is also a stop and frisk state.
The cop was within her rights to question the guy-the fact that the suspect was also a cop means that he should have known better.
And you have a nice day, too.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)Maybe you find me uncivil and snarky because you yourself are frequently snarky and uncivil. Volleys, as you say, are often returned.
"The cop was within her rights to question the guy" - that does not, on its own, mean she had the right to tell him to take off his mask, or arrest him for wearing it, without suspicion of other law breaking - as that section 155 makes clear (as I've noted elsewhere, that was inserted into the law after the Florida Supreme Court found sections 12-16 unconstitutional, on their own).
MADem
(135,425 posts)I see continues to bear fruit, but whatever.
She DID have the right to make him identify himself, and so long as we're quoting statutes, here are a pair for you:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html
Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this section if the law enforcement officer did not comply with this procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person is true and, if believed by the officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0900-0999/0901/Sections/0901.151.html
Unless you are the police officer and have the ability to get inside her head, you can't speak to what made her believe that this fellow may have been up to no good.
Again, bottom line--she was acting within the law of the state of FL.
onenote
(42,700 posts)That was a statement he made after he was confronted by the cop.
I marched against the War in Vietnam with signs calling for revolution. Thank goodness you weren't around to call the cops on me for posing a threat to public safety.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I didn't wear a mask though--and neither did you. Those things weren't in fashion four+ decades ago.
Though those days were turbulent they had a very different vibe than today. Demonstrations today aren't the same as back then--there was much more marching (no wonder people were thinner). Sit ins were one thing, but people didn't do as much "standing around protesting" as they do now.
This circumstance is a more difficult prospect for LE, particularly with the rise of incidents we as a nation are reluctant to call terrorism, but instead refer to as "bombings." LE is alert to these sorts of things, as they should be.
Bottom line: The cop was within her rights to ask for Guy Fawkes to identify himself. Like it or not, stop and frisk IS the law in FL. Under that alone she had room to maneuver, and the masked protester, as a cop, should have known that and not even pushed that button. The fact that he didn't know the law, or didn't care, suggests that he doesn't belong on the police force.
onenote
(42,700 posts)Stop and Frisk IS the law in Florida and the law is quite clear:
(2) Whenever any law enforcement officer of this state encounters any person under circumstances which reasonably indicate that such person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a violation of the criminal laws of this state or the criminal ordinances of any municipality or county, the officer may temporarily detain such person for the purpose of ascertaining the identity of the person temporarily detained and the circumstances surrounding the persons presence abroad which led the officer to believe that the person had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a criminal offense.
What circumstances reasonably indicated that Guy Fawkes had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a violation of the criminal laws of Florida?
There may be good reasons for the cop with the mask not being a cop. But there also good reasons why the cop that made this arrest shouldn't be a cop.
Edit: To the extent the protester was actually impeding traffic, then the cop might have a legal case. And the facts surrounding how he allegedly impeded traffic have not been reported. However, based on my experience, if someone is impeding traffic, the first thing a cop does is ask the person to stop and if they do, then typically that's the end of the story. This cop wasn't worried about traffic, imo. This cop just wanted to jerk this guy around.
MADem
(135,425 posts)what caused her to reasonably infer that this guy might be trouble. You just cannot make that determination. You also don't "know" that she "just wanted to jerk this guy around." In my experience, the police who like to jerk people around are more likely to be male.
You were not there. You did not observe his behavior, his manner, his demeanor. She was there and she did make these observations, and she used her best judgment. She gets paid to use that judgment, and the fellow in the mask, being a cop himself, should have known that.
Further, I don't think it is typical for a person to impede traffic wearing a mask and holding an upside-down flag close to a demonstration. I rather doubt that the police encounter that particular scenario on the average day.
In any event, he's on "paid administrative leave." I think he might want to start thinking about a new line of work:
He told police he was protesting Obamacare, but still he "was asked several times to remove his mask and produce some form of identification or tell us his name," according to the incident report. "He refused each time."
The incident report does not say whether any other protesters were there during the incident. Harrell wouldn't tell police who he was, "stating his anonymity was his cause, thus the mask. ... He stated the mask was used by movement groups around the world for protest," the police report said.
He only identified himself saying, "I'm a cop, I'm a cop," once police found his .40 caliber pistol in his right waistband and ordered him not to make any sudden movements.
He was charged with obstruction of traffic, and wearing a hood or mask on a street, the report said. Though taken into custody, he wasn't jailed: He instead was given a notice to appear in court, records show.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-11-29/news/fl-plantation-police-arrest-20131129_1_mask-trash-bin-police-officer
This guy is being touted far and wide across the anti-Obama/anti-ACA/Paulbot blogosphere. I don't think all that cheerleading is going to help him overmuch.
onenote
(42,700 posts)you would have sided with the cops because, apparently, cops are entitled to the benefit of the doubt. Interesting.
No, I wasn't there. Neither was you. But there is nothing in the incident report that suggests that the cop had any business starting the confrontation by asking the protester to remove his mask and/or identify himself
I don't agree with the protesting cop's politics in any way shape or form. But too many posters on DU have a situational view of the First Amendment and Fifth Amendment. If they agree with a person's political views, then actions by the authorities are viewed with great suspicion. If they disagree with a person's political views, then they really don't give a crap about whether his or her rights were violated.
MADem
(135,425 posts)First you make a statement, unsupported by facts, and then you pronounce your unsupported statement "Interesting."
So you're the type of person who likes to serve as judge, jury and executioner.
Interesting!
So you don't feel a need to ask the defendant anything before you pronounce your sentence.
Interesting!
The law was on that policewoman's side. That might be problematic for YOU, because you have a desire to substitute YOUR judgment for that of the policewoman, but I believe that you don't have the situational knowledge --and certainly not the authority-- to do that.
And that is what's really interesting, here!
I"m particularly sweet on the First Amendment and the Fifth Amendment.
I'm not nearly as sweet when it comes to cops interfering with the exercise of those rights.
I'm sure you're sweet too, just not about the same things as me.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You have opinions--you have opinions about the protester, you have some very negative opinions about the policewoman you don't even know, but what you don't have is any facts.
You weren't there. You are assuming 'facts' that are not in evidence, here. You are constructing a scenario to suit your own personal outrage, and I regret to say I just don't find your arguments at all compelling. I have to believe that the policewoman has a better handle on what happened with that guy than you do (since, well, she was actually THERE and made the arrest), your protestations about the Constitution notwithstanding.
onenote
(42,700 posts)for first approaching this protester had been met. The circumstantial evidence suggests strongly that it hadn't been.
For instance, there is no indication that the cop was so concerned about an obstruction of traffic that she asked the protester to move or to stop holding the upside down where it might distract drivers. All that has been reported by those who have seen the incident report (and neither you nor I have seen it) is that the cop approached the protester and asked him to remove his mask and identify himself. If that's all there is -- a guy protesting with an upside down flag and a mask, then the cop had no basis, under the constitution or the relevant Florida statutes, to ask the protester to do anything. And the protester was exercising his right not to comply with the cop's demand.
Maybe something will come out that will establish a predicate basis for the cop approaching the protester in the first place. At the moment, however, all we have is your assumption (based on nothing more than blind faith) that the cop must have had a good reason and my assumption (based on the absence of any evidence to the contrary) that she did not have a good reason.
MADem
(135,425 posts)incomplete news article--that suggests the standard has NOT been met.
See how that works?
At this point in time, if I'm to back an argument for one POV or another, I think I'll take the word of the policewoman, a LE professional, who affected the arrest, not the insistence of someone on the internet who avers that something nefarious might have happened, in his opinion, just because, well, maybe, a big fat guess.
You cannot "prove" her judgment was faulty, no matter how much you try. She is paid to make those decisions--you're not.
onenote
(42,700 posts)I think the burden of proof should be on the cop and, therefore, the absence of any reported facts that would justify the cop approaching the protester causes me to lean in the direction that there are not such facts. You, on the other hand, apparently view the burden as being on those who question whether the cop had justification and assume, without any evidence, that the cop's burden was met.
Cops screw up. Really, it happens. Indeed, during the Occupy protests, a guy wearing a mask at an Occupy protest was arrested. And then the charges were dropped. Similarly, several women in New York protesting about Pussy Riot were arrested for covering their faces. And the charge was dropped.
Anti-mask and stop and frisk laws have been narrowed by the courts precisely because law enforcement doesn't like anonymity and tends not to respect the rights of individuals to maintain their anonymity and not identify themselves to the authorities where there is no justification for doing so.
MADem
(135,425 posts)She doesn't need your opinion, or anyone else's. She is a law enforcement professional, and her judgment and experience are determiners. The fact that the supervisor of old Guy Fawkes took his badge and police ID suggests that the PD agrees with her judgment in this regard.
Amazing how, after Mister Mask was stopped, and frisked, and his gun was found under his cape, in his waistband, that his first recourse was to scream "I'm a cop!"
When officers discovered he was carrying a .40 caliber pistol in his waistband, he relinquished some of his anonymity by informing them Im a cop, Im a cop.
He was ordered not to make any sudden movements, then charged with obstruction of traffic and wearing a hood or mask on a street. Florida has a statute which originated with the states attempt to criminalize the Ku Klux Klan without violating the Constitutional guarantee to free assembly or ruining Halloween that states that (n)o person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing any mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter upon, or be or appear upon any lane, walk, alley, street, road, highway, or other public way in this state.
Harrell was not taken into custody, but issued a summons to appear in court. His superior in the Plantation Police Department collected his badge and police identification on Sunday, but as of this moment his current employment status is unknown.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/02/florida-cop-arrested-for-wearing-anonymous-mask-at-obamacare-protest/
onenote
(42,700 posts)For example, I'm sure the cop that made the arrest in the following case also was relying on his or her "judgment." It just wasn't good judgment.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/charges-dropped-against-water-gun-attacker-598732
MADem
(135,425 posts)The supervisor of Guy Fawkes agrees with the policewoman. Mr. Mask doesn't have a badge or an ID on him anymore.
Also, he didn't hesitate to identify himself at his previous protest--funny how he got all up in his own "anonymity" when asked by this woman to ID himself...I guess it depends who's asking, or something?
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-12-06/news/fl-cop-protest-mask-anonymous-20131203_1_anti-mask-law-police-officer-paid-leave
According to the police report, Sunrise police said he told them "he was not happy what was being done in Washington by our government. ... Ericson advised he is trying to open America's eyes to the reality of what is going on in the U.S.A."
But in Sunrise, according to the police report, Harrell identified himself to Sunrise police when he was asked.
He needs a new line of work.
onenote
(42,700 posts)And you still haven't pointed to any known facts that would justify even asking him to disclose his identity or remove his mask. All you have is your blind faith that the cop must have, in her "judgment" a justifiable basis for suspecting that a criminal act was about to be committed or that the protest was intended to intimidate.
The fact that someone waives their first and fifth amendment rights on one occasion doesn't mean that they're gone forever. '
As for needing a new line of work -- he's on paid administrative leave, no decision has been made whether to pursue the arrest or drop the charges, and based on the article you linked to, it seems more likely than not that in the end the charges will be dropped because, as in other like cases, the arrest doesn't measure up to the constitutionally required standard.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)during Dubya's (second?) term.
They ruled that you do.
onenote
(42,700 posts)You are, I believe, referring to the 2004 Hiibel decision, wherein the Supreme Court narrowly (5-4 with the usual suspects in the majority) upheld a Nevada "stop and identify" law over objections that it violated the the right against self incrimination. Critical to the outcome of that case was the fact that the law in question
applied only under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Thank you for giving me the name so I could read up on it.
It also upheld that his 4th Amendment rights were not violated.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Pretty easy to understand the mask law.
He keeps a cape in his truck! Oy.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)up by hate radio and the likes of Fox News - If you have people thinking that the liberals are the equivalent of Hitler and Mao and the country is rapidly descending into socialist tyranny under Sharia Law - they start believing their own rhetoric and responding like true patriots really would respond if it was true that liberals are the equivalent of Hitler and Mao. If you sincerely believed that - what would you do?
sendero
(28,552 posts)... there may be a war coming but it is not the war this tool thinks it will be.
gerogie2
(450 posts)And the Federal courts have upheld the laws. You have the right to publish anonymously, but you can't protest anonymously. The main reason is because of the KKK, but also to help prevent criminals that may riot at a protest from hiding their identity.
onenote
(42,700 posts)The Georgia law discussed at your link, as interpreted by the Georgia Supreme Court "only prevents masked appearance in public under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable apprehension of intimidation, threats or impending violence." See State v. Miller, 260 Ga. 669 (1990).
No such circumstances were present with regard to the guy fawkes mask-wearing protester.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)the guy's an idiot.
I say let him wear his mask and spout his nonsense if it makes him happy.
However, when he calls himself a "soldier" and say "there's a war coming" that does set off some alarm bells particularly coming from a police officer.
And I just wonder how he'd feel if there was a counter-protest with a group of people ranged against him, wearing masks. I think we can start to understand why the law was put in place.
I also disagree that wearing a mask is the same as posting on a message board because it's not physical. A big group of people wearing masks can be physically intimidating.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)Says it all to me. Sorry Floridians, but my grandfather left the state in 1916 at age 16 because of the racism. Never again, in his 89 years, did he return or even talk about the state. Seems not much has changed, sadly.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Especially in central and north FL.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)it would say the same about the Florida cops that arrested him as it does about the Florida cop that was arrested, right?
Baitball Blogger
(46,703 posts)StrictlyRockers
(3,855 posts)Because ACA? Because freedom? Because demographics changes? Because he feels askerd? Because black people?
What's his angle on this coming war? Is he an agitator for civil war? Do these deep-South dim-bulbs never learn?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Sick fucks.
JimboBillyBubbaBob
(1,389 posts)but how can a right wing protester be allowed to appropriate such a symbol, screw him and the cape he rode in with.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)how so many here have made the determination that the protester is a wingnut. He doesn't even elaborate on his ideological reasoning. Socialists are generally opposed to compulsory purchases of goods and services for profit.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)By Lisa J. Huriash, Staff Writer
5:21 p.m. EST, November 29, 2013
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)I haven't seen where he has addressed exactly what it is about the ACA that motivates him to protest it.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)or a tweet on his Twitter. That's how it generally works. I highly recommend this film to you if any of this comes as news. It illustrates how it all worked in a 1963 operation that included an assassination:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_%28film%29
MADem
(135,425 posts)Now, if you'd like, you can see it on YOUTUBE!
Riveting production, I must say--great cast as well.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Great music too. Thanks MADem, this is one of the best!
p.s. To access English subtitles, press the "CC" button to the left of the resolution button (where it says 360p).
MADem
(135,425 posts)In an artsy-fartsy theater on the other side of the Charles!
It still sticks with me, though--it's one of the best films ever made, I think!
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)against Obamacare: a week later, nobody knows exactly what he thinks, except he's armed, wears a mask and cape, warns of war and says it's time to fight, as a protest against Obamacare
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2013, 11:35 AM - Edit history (3)
(I hate that name. I hear far too many wingnuts spit it out with contempt.)
Neither does he say anything about it in his own recording. In the interview, he says he was simply "exercising his first amendment right".
As for being armed, being a police officer in Florida, he is entitled to carry a handgun just about anywhere. Are you really going to challenge his right to be armed? That would be strange, considering what Ive seen you post on that particular issue.
You mention his mask and cape, as if that was some kind of indictment, but there is nothing odd about using props and costumes when protesting. Liberals and progressives do it all the time.
?w=466
His use of the word "war" could be metaphorical. He doesn't rant and rave about it or anything. He mentioned it once. It's difficult to tell what he means by it. Our society is always waging "war" on something, so his use of the term doesn't seem all that unusual, considering the limited amount of information here and the lack of any elaboration of his political views. This all has an air of selective editing about it. It's rather strange.
Your post is loaded with several assumptions about the man, with absolutely nothing to support them.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)By Lisa J. Huriash, Staff Writer
5:21 p.m. EST, November 29, 2013
... While Harrell was arrested in Plantation, he didn't run into any trouble when he protested peacefully in August in Sunrise for an hour and a half and then went home, records show. According to the police report, Sunrise police said he told them "he was not happy what was being done in Washington by our government. ... Ericson advised he is trying to open America's eyes to the reality of what is going on in the U.S.A." But in Sunrise, according to the police report, Harrell identified himself to Sunrise police when he was asked ...
Arrest of South Florida officer brings attention to anti-mask law
By Lisa J. Huriash, Sun Sentinel
5:13 p.m. EST, December 6, 2013
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)There are no quotes from him about "Obamacare", so in reality, it isn't really clear what he was protesting.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)salin
(48,955 posts)He doesn't join the anti-Obamacare protest, he stands apart from them and does his thing. Perhaps he was offering a counter position/message? I listened for a POV - and didn't hear it. I feel like I am missing something.
salin
(48,955 posts)that says that he said he was protesting Obamacare.
It wasn't clear from his video/interview.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)and just likes the idea of protesting. Maybe that's why he wears the Guy Fawkes mask because it is a symbol of protest that doesn't have a fixed meaning.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)This might be a one-off, but it probably isn't. It sounds more like something that's been around a long time, namely managed protests à la Operation Ajax in 1953. In other words those short-haired rock throwers behind the Time-Warner licensed masks aren't always what Time-Warner and the rest of the breathless press would have us believe they are, for example in this helpful 2011 Occupy primer supplied by you guessed it, Time-Warner:
http://subscription-assets.time.com/prod/assets/themes/magazines/SUBS/templates/velocity/site/td-whatisoccupy/lp.html
catbyte
(34,376 posts)randr
(12,412 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,339 posts)isn't that a mask?
MADem
(135,425 posts)In Pakistan, they wear tight yellow pants, moustaches, and carry big sticks. That doesn't translate to other jurisdictions, necessarily.
I don't think the police officer was wearing a mask when she arrested this guy.
The Masked Wonder did have a weapon in his waistband, though.
He was quick to identify himself as a cop once that was discovered.