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Let's state the friggin' obvious: (Original Post) truedelphi Dec 2013 OP
Which mess? eom yawnmaster Dec 2013 #1
Don't forget mstinamotorcity2 Dec 2013 #2
When did we spend $16 trillion to bail the banks out?? madinmaryland Dec 2013 #3
Experts in the know have correctly attacked politifact truedelphi Dec 2013 #5
You're standing with Ron Paul in attacking Obama over this? Believing his lies? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #8
What? Many people are saying what I am. truedelphi Dec 2013 #16
Yeah, that 16 Trillion thing has been widely and resoundingly debunked. Thank You. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #10
We are in this mess, because the banks practiced corporate maleficence. Rex Dec 2013 #4
Same here, Rex. truedelphi Dec 2013 #6
same here onethatcares Dec 2013 #9
We are in this mess because of 30 years of Republican adherence to the "free Market Religion". Vincardog Dec 2013 #7
So our economic mess had nothing at all to do with Glass Steagall being removed by truedelphi Dec 2013 #11
It depends on which mess you want to talk about. Repealing Glass Steagall was another step down the Vincardog Dec 2013 #14
TWO unpaid-for WARS didn't help. nt Lex Dec 2013 #12
+ 1. n/t truedelphi Dec 2013 #15
We are in this mess because the GOP ... lpbk2713 Dec 2013 #13
Well, the terminology has been changed, but the principle truedelphi Dec 2013 #19
85 billion a month Boom Sound 416 Dec 2013 #17
I am betting we will bail out the banks again just prior to 2016. It worked so well why rhett o rick Dec 2013 #18
I certainly wouldn't bet against your notion. n/t truedelphi Dec 2013 #22
Don't blow up Obama's "Grand Bargain" scheme w/the insane GOP hell-bent on nuking the Middle Class.. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #20
Not sure it's wise to ue the expression truedelphi Dec 2013 #21

madinmaryland

(64,931 posts)
3. When did we spend $16 trillion to bail the banks out??
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:09 PM
Dec 2013

You seem to be citing a Ron Paul meme...

Two big missing pieces put the accuracy of Paul’s statement on very shaky ground. It’s incorrect to say the Fed created $16 trillion because that’s a running total of lending, and the running total ignores a key reality. The dollars in those loan programs went out and came back in through a revolving door. Orice Williams Brown, managing director financial markets at the GAO, gives as an example a bank borrowing $10 billion at night, repaying it the next morning and then borrowing it again in the evening. The running tally would count that as $20 billion borrowed. "But if you look at it, it’s the same $10 billion dollars," Brown said.

The GAO did figure out what the total would look like if you accounted for this churn of dollars. That’s in Table 9, which the Paul campaign did not cite. The grand total there is about $1.1 trillion which is a lot of money but much less than $15 trillion.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/09/ron-paul/did-fed-create-15-trillion-during-bailout-and-send/

And to add to this, it was that additional 1-2 trillion that kept the country from completely tanking.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
5. Experts in the know have correctly attacked politifact
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:27 PM
Dec 2013

and how politifact is stating this is a revolving door situation. In fact,those experts say that some 4.7 trillions of dollars have never been repaid, and never will be repaid.

Politifact and its standing by the policies of RICO-guilty but never indicted Tim Geithner has set us up for this faux economy. And in this economy, Wall Street is doing spectacularly, even as the economy as a whole is being set up for yet another economic collapse.

And in setting us up for this, we are being told that "no one is at fault. That it's just that the nation is heading into uncharted economic territory wherein bank busts and bailout needs are normal, rather than once in a century events."


In other words, a nation does not "magically" arrive at having "new and uncharted territory" crop up. This is like a parent having a teenage kid and buying them the crack cocaine and then saying, "How can I help this situation?!? It is all new and uncharted territory for me as a parent!"

So with our nation being like that destructive crack-buying parent, or like a farmer who lets the foxes rule the hen house, we do see "uncharted territories and uncharted economic waters.) But that is the deliberate set up. For consider this, very importantly, between the late 1930's and the tail end of Clinton's Presidency, we have never before allowed our Rulers to enslave us by keeping the Glass Steagall style provisions off the books.

Ha d anyone in the USA, preferably the newly elected President, one Barack Obama, listened to Issa or Kucinuch as they addressed Paulson back in Fall of 2008, we could have, as nation followed the exact same procedures for restoring the economy as were followed by Congress and the President back at the time of the Savings and Loan fiasco. Those laws were in fact, still on the books.

But instead, Barack Obama colluded with Wall Street. He allowed Tim Geithner to take charge of everything, and Geithner pushed for two very destructive items:

One) Not to re-instate Glass Steagal, and
Two) To go head and Bailout the banks. And he deliberately did the Bailouts without any advantages to those providing the Bailout monies. Did you know that when this happened in Ireland, the government saw to it that the banks accepted that the under water mortgages would be secured by the Bailouts. But of course, over in Ireland, the government is afraid of its citizens, while here the citizenry is afraid of the government.

How do we know that a different matter of dealing with the crisis would work? Because the very independent minded, democracy lovers of Iceland have followed a different path and things are working out okay for them

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
8. You're standing with Ron Paul in attacking Obama over this? Believing his lies?
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:34 PM
Dec 2013

Jesus, DU is going to shit.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
16. What? Many people are saying what I am.
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 08:13 PM
Dec 2013

Including Maxine Waters, hardly a Paul-ite, and Kucinich.

Also, William Black, who served on the board of a local Fed Reserve branch.

IF Ron Paul states the sun rises in the East, and I agree, what the heck does that indicate? Meanwhile some people would rather quibble about labels regarding idealogies while ignoring Truth.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
10. Yeah, that 16 Trillion thing has been widely and resoundingly debunked. Thank You.
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:35 PM
Dec 2013

Doesn't stop it from popping up around here like a demented mushroom, from time to time.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
4. We are in this mess, because the banks practiced corporate maleficence.
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:12 PM
Dec 2013

We got even worse into this mess, because of the TARP deal and our reversal of capitalism with 'too big to fail'. We will stay in this mess, until people finally throw aside 'trickle down' economics and stop letting Wall Street dictate what the nation is going to do politically.

I really don't want to hear any propaganda UNTIL they replace the 2 trillion 'borrowed' from SS to pay our bills!

onethatcares

(16,167 posts)
9. same here
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:34 PM
Dec 2013

it's about time to get our money back. I never wanted to contribute to any wars or banker bonuses anyway.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
7. We are in this mess because of 30 years of Republican adherence to the "free Market Religion".
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:30 PM
Dec 2013

Aided by a SCOTUS overstepping its' bounds and issuing illegal immoral law creating rulings.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
11. So our economic mess had nothing at all to do with Glass Steagall being removed by
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:53 PM
Dec 2013

The Senate, with every single Senator in office at the time voting for that "Bank reform" Act? And with Bill Clinton signing off on it.

OF course Clinton gets his $ 100k pr speech in front of th Coporate podiums, so I am not surprised that he did that. But it would have been nice if one other Senator had stood with Senator Dorgan (D- Nebraska) when he voted Nay on the "Bank Reform" measure.

Anyway economic expert William Black has been saying since Autumn 2008 how the Glass Steagall provisions being removed as needed banking regulations helped to cause the crisis, and he still says it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/conservatives-and-liberta_b_3632815.html

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
14. It depends on which mess you want to talk about. Repealing Glass Steagall was another step down the
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 08:01 PM
Dec 2013

road to FASCISM. The war has been fought since the beginning of our country.
Look back to the attempted Coup after WW2.
I maintain that RayGun's economic voodoo is what got us here, repealing GS did contribute
(or enable) the latest banking frauds.
I maintain the roots are much deeper than that alone.

lpbk2713

(42,757 posts)
13. We are in this mess because the GOP ...
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:58 PM
Dec 2013



owned the ball, the bat and the ball park for eight long years.

They lined their own pockets and said FU to everyone else.


truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
19. Well, the terminology has been changed, but the principle
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 09:31 PM
Dec 2013

remains the same.

As midnight explained some time ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3466069

That being said, even under Reagan, we saw that when Malfeasance by Higher ups in the Food Chain at the Savings and Loans colluded to cause that crisis, neither Reagan or Bush Sr gave those dirty dawgs the keys to the kingdom. Instead a system of state chartered banks were approved, and monies sent to those regional banks. With regulations in place that allowed for those banks to exist, as long as they loaned out the monies out to Main Street. So the economic restructuring benefitted Main Street, and not just the investor class.

It is only under Obama that we have gone, and instead of following the S & L crisis wisdom, we have allowed the foxes to guard the hen house. (Not that a President McCain would have handled things differently. But a President Warren would!)

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
18. I am betting we will bail out the banks again just prior to 2016. It worked so well why
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 09:04 PM
Dec 2013

not keep doing it. The American people on the whole are super-suckers.

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
20. Don't blow up Obama's "Grand Bargain" scheme w/the insane GOP hell-bent on nuking the Middle Class..
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 09:48 PM
Dec 2013

Why, that'd be downright un-bipartisan!!!

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
21. Not sure it's wise to ue the expression
Mon Dec 9, 2013, 11:41 PM
Dec 2013

"Blow Up" in terms of what the NSA considers to be at threat.

But heartily agree.

And the folks over at this Occupy UK website also agree:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Peoples-Bank-UK/368195866607009

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