General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLet's state the friggin' obvious:
We are in this mess on account of our having bailed out the banks. (Sixteen trillions of dollars or more!) And not because of Social Security or "Welfare Entitlements."
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)De-Regulations.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)You seem to be citing a Ron Paul meme...
The GAO did figure out what the total would look like if you accounted for this churn of dollars. Thats in Table 9, which the Paul campaign did not cite. The grand total there is about $1.1 trillion which is a lot of money but much less than $15 trillion.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/09/ron-paul/did-fed-create-15-trillion-during-bailout-and-send/
And to add to this, it was that additional 1-2 trillion that kept the country from completely tanking.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)and how politifact is stating this is a revolving door situation. In fact,those experts say that some 4.7 trillions of dollars have never been repaid, and never will be repaid.
Politifact and its standing by the policies of RICO-guilty but never indicted Tim Geithner has set us up for this faux economy. And in this economy, Wall Street is doing spectacularly, even as the economy as a whole is being set up for yet another economic collapse.
And in setting us up for this, we are being told that "no one is at fault. That it's just that the nation is heading into uncharted economic territory wherein bank busts and bailout needs are normal, rather than once in a century events."
In other words, a nation does not "magically" arrive at having "new and uncharted territory" crop up. This is like a parent having a teenage kid and buying them the crack cocaine and then saying, "How can I help this situation?!? It is all new and uncharted territory for me as a parent!"
So with our nation being like that destructive crack-buying parent, or like a farmer who lets the foxes rule the hen house, we do see "uncharted territories and uncharted economic waters.) But that is the deliberate set up. For consider this, very importantly, between the late 1930's and the tail end of Clinton's Presidency, we have never before allowed our Rulers to enslave us by keeping the Glass Steagall style provisions off the books.
Ha d anyone in the USA, preferably the newly elected President, one Barack Obama, listened to Issa or Kucinuch as they addressed Paulson back in Fall of 2008, we could have, as nation followed the exact same procedures for restoring the economy as were followed by Congress and the President back at the time of the Savings and Loan fiasco. Those laws were in fact, still on the books.
But instead, Barack Obama colluded with Wall Street. He allowed Tim Geithner to take charge of everything, and Geithner pushed for two very destructive items:
One) Not to re-instate Glass Steagal, and
Two) To go head and Bailout the banks. And he deliberately did the Bailouts without any advantages to those providing the Bailout monies. Did you know that when this happened in Ireland, the government saw to it that the banks accepted that the under water mortgages would be secured by the Bailouts. But of course, over in Ireland, the government is afraid of its citizens, while here the citizenry is afraid of the government.
How do we know that a different matter of dealing with the crisis would work? Because the very independent minded, democracy lovers of Iceland have followed a different path and things are working out okay for them
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)Jesus, DU is going to shit.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Including Maxine Waters, hardly a Paul-ite, and Kucinich.
Also, William Black, who served on the board of a local Fed Reserve branch.
IF Ron Paul states the sun rises in the East, and I agree, what the heck does that indicate? Meanwhile some people would rather quibble about labels regarding idealogies while ignoring Truth.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Doesn't stop it from popping up around here like a demented mushroom, from time to time.
Rex
(65,616 posts)We got even worse into this mess, because of the TARP deal and our reversal of capitalism with 'too big to fail'. We will stay in this mess, until people finally throw aside 'trickle down' economics and stop letting Wall Street dictate what the nation is going to do politically.
I really don't want to hear any propaganda UNTIL they replace the 2 trillion 'borrowed' from SS to pay our bills!
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Same here.
it's about time to get our money back. I never wanted to contribute to any wars or banker bonuses anyway.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Aided by a SCOTUS overstepping its' bounds and issuing illegal immoral law creating rulings.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)The Senate, with every single Senator in office at the time voting for that "Bank reform" Act? And with Bill Clinton signing off on it.
OF course Clinton gets his $ 100k pr speech in front of th Coporate podiums, so I am not surprised that he did that. But it would have been nice if one other Senator had stood with Senator Dorgan (D- Nebraska) when he voted Nay on the "Bank Reform" measure.
Anyway economic expert William Black has been saying since Autumn 2008 how the Glass Steagall provisions being removed as needed banking regulations helped to cause the crisis, and he still says it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/conservatives-and-liberta_b_3632815.html
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)road to FASCISM. The war has been fought since the beginning of our country.
Look back to the attempted Coup after WW2.
I maintain that RayGun's economic voodoo is what got us here, repealing GS did contribute
(or enable) the latest banking frauds.
I maintain the roots are much deeper than that alone.
Lex
(34,108 posts)lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)owned the ball, the bat and the ball park for eight long years.
They lined their own pockets and said FU to everyone else.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)remains the same.
As midnight explained some time ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3466069
That being said, even under Reagan, we saw that when Malfeasance by Higher ups in the Food Chain at the Savings and Loans colluded to cause that crisis, neither Reagan or Bush Sr gave those dirty dawgs the keys to the kingdom. Instead a system of state chartered banks were approved, and monies sent to those regional banks. With regulations in place that allowed for those banks to exist, as long as they loaned out the monies out to Main Street. So the economic restructuring benefitted Main Street, and not just the investor class.
It is only under Obama that we have gone, and instead of following the S & L crisis wisdom, we have allowed the foxes to guard the hen house. (Not that a President McCain would have handled things differently. But a President Warren would!)
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)The bailing continues
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)not keep doing it. The American people on the whole are super-suckers.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Why, that'd be downright un-bipartisan!!!
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)"Blow Up" in terms of what the NSA considers to be at threat.
But heartily agree.
And the folks over at this Occupy UK website also agree:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Peoples-Bank-UK/368195866607009