The Time for Wealth Redistribution Is Now

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/economy/time-wealth-redistribution-now



The President’s speech yesterday on inequality avoided the “R” word. No politician wants to mention “redistribution” because it conjures up images of worthy “makers” forced to hand over hard-earned income to undeserving “takers.”

But as low-wage work proliferates in America, so-called takers are working as hard if not harder than anyone else, and often at more than one job.

Yet they’re still not making it because the twin forces of globalization and technological change have reduced their bargaining power and undermined their economic standing—while bestowing ever greater benefits on a comparative few with the right education and connections (and whose parents are often best able to secure these advantages for them).

Better education and training for those on the losing end is critically important, as will several of the other proposals the President listed. But they will only go so far.

The number of losers is growing so quickly, and so much of the economies’ winnings are going to a small group at the top—since the recovery began, 95 percent of the gains have gone to the richest 1 percent—that some direct redistribution of the gains is necessary.

[pampango]

1. Great article. Nice fine, xchrom.

Without some redistribution, the losers are likely to react in ways that could hurt the economy. They’ll demand protection from global markets they believe are taking away good jobs, and even from certain technological advances that threaten to displace them (rather than smash the machines, as did England’s 19th-century Luddites, they’ll seek regulations that preserve the old jobs).

Without some redistribution, our ever-increasing number of low-wage workers won’t have enough money to keep the economy going. (This is one reason why the current recovery has been so anemic.) And without some redistribution, America’s growing army of low-wage workers may fall prey to demagogues on the right or left who offer convenient scapegoats for their frustrations.

How to pay for this? By cutting subsidies and special tax breaks for the oil and gas industries, big agribusiness, military contractors, hedge-fund and private-equity partners, and Wall Street banks. And by capping individual tax deductions (deductions are the economic equivalent of government subsidies) for gold-plated health care plans, lavish business junkets and interest on giant mortgages.

In other words, we can finance much of this redistribution to the working poor by ending unnecessary redistributions to the wealthy.

In challenging times FDR was smart enough to know that demagogues would rise to offer "convenient scapegoats for their frustrations" ("protection from global markets" and "certain technological advances" among others - immigrants spring to mind). So far there is little sign that current politicians are up to that challenge.

[geckosfeet]

2. There is the education canard.... while it may be a factor in certain jobs positions,

Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2013, 09:01 AM - Edit history (1)

for most it is not.

Now, in 2013 on the cusp of 2014 we are one of the most highly educated societies in the world. To tell poor people who do not have two nickels to rub together that they must spend $20,000 a year for an education for four years is an insult. It is also an invitation to life long servitude and indebtedness. This canard plays into the hands of banks and lending institutions who make college loans that line the coffers of richest 1% even further.

Specialized training should be provided by the employer. Training programs for the kind of work that is so specialized that it would be virtually useless anywhere else should be provided and developed by the employer.

Low wage workers don't need more education - they need to be paid a living wage. They need the security of an income so that they can make decisions about going to school or getting some training.

[Chico Man]

5. While I agree in principle

Let's not ignore the fact that low wage workers are free to seek higher wages. Perhaps education would assist in this endeavor.

Also there is such a thing as "need based" financial aid - that is the lower the income, the lower the cost. For most minimum wage workers attending many colleges this means basically no student loans at graduation.

I'm not saying this is easy, or things don't need to change. I will say that success stories happen every day.

[geckosfeet]

8. Of course they are free to do what they want ---- "in principle".

[davidthegnome]

13. Are we?

Let me give you a brief summary of my situation - if you don't mind. I'm 29, living with my parents in Northern Maine, and I have lived and worked my whole life in small towns in an economically struggling area. Last year, for the first time in my life, I had the opportunity, and the good health to go to college. It was the first time in my life I had ever truly been hopeful and optimistic. In financial aid, I received tuition, plus two thousand dollars for books and all other expenses. This might have been okay if there had been jobs available at the time.

Most of us here have some idea how it is for your average, struggling college student. Ramen for dinner, ramen for breakfast, and yep, ramen for lunch, too. To commute, or to rent an apartment, or even to live on campus, requires a rather significant amount of money that someone who works for eight dollars an hour just doesn't have - this becomes even more desperate when businesses are closing and you're going to school in a very small city filled with desperate college kids. Priority. The system is organized in such a way (and rightly so) that the first available work study jobs and the most financial aid goes to those who must need it. Single mothers with children, two parent families that can't get by without help, those most in need are the first priority.

When you're single and healthy, you rank somewhat lower down on the list. This was fine with me, I was young, strong, I had the ability to perform the tasks of most any simple job. Sadly, there simply were no simple jobs in that area - and as I couldn't afford a car, I had to walk everywhere I went - also, there is no system of public transportation in this area of northern Main.

To make a long, painful story shorter... I started that year with hope and optimism, I had spent my whole life struggling with severe post traumatic stress disorder, but somehow I became well enough, stable enough, for a time, to really try to move forward beyond minimum wage jobs and praying for a miracle.

I held on to that hope and worked my butt off in classes, I often was up until or 3 AM trying to puzzle out algebra homework, having been ten years out of school, it was really hard for me. With every passing month though, my parents were less able to help me manage my living expenses, and eventually I went hungry on many different occasions. Eventually I had to make do with 10 dollars a week for groceries. It can be done, yes, but I do not recommend it to anyone.

As my health suffered, so did my academic pursuits. I became overwhelmingly depressed and failed two of my second semester classes. So at the end of the year, I was placed on academic probation - could not receive financial aid for another semester - my first semester, I had earned a 3.4 GPA.

Now, the following year, I am in debt up to my eyeballs, the student loan collectors will not leave me alone, and I cannot afford to pay them with my eight dollar an hour job at a hotel in a different small town. I am just barely able to manage a car payment, car insurance, an gas, all while living with my parents who have been incredibly generous and supportive.

I've all but given up. Am I free to seek higher wages? Sure, but I do not have the freedom, the wealth, or the health to seek them anymore. A whole lot of us are just barely getting by, Chico Man. I do not share my story for sympathy, but in the hopes of empathy.

Things need to change - we cannot all become success stories without help. While there are success stories, how many people fall through the cracks? How many minds and hearts are broken by the system in place?

Frankly, I'm exhausted. I'm tired of busting my ass just to survive. The future looks bleak.

[Chico Man]

28. I'm sorry

I'm really truly sorry to hear of your plight. I hope things get better soon.

I would have expected there to be some meal plan included with your financial aid package.

Loans are difficult and not always necessary; the entrance interview clearly states that the loans are going to have to be paid back. Fortunately the federal government has many repayment plans to help you avoid default and the debt collector calls.. you can always apply for a forbearance, and in some cases even a forgiveness.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans

Life is often times about being exhausted and busting ass to survive, especially if you want to change it. Don't give up, and don't wait for someone else to change it for you.

[kelly1mm]

33. As a fellow rural area resident, I do understand your frustrations. It is not as

easy to just jump to another job when there really are not many jobs, even in good times. Also, the 'just move' suggestions seem equally unrealistic if you have no seed money (moving is not free) and/or have commitments to your area like child visitation, taking care of family or even just having a strong local social network.

No real suggestions, just wanted to let you know that I appreciated reading your story.

[geckosfeet]

37. "In principle" yes, of course you are free. As a practical matter - keep flippin those boigers at $8

They got you right where they want you.... education or not you are trapped.

Chico mans "you are free to get paid more" is nonsense on it's face. "In principle" sure, I can demand higher wages. Will I get it? Even with advanced degrees and experience? Not likely.

[Chico Man]

50. If you give up before you try

Then obviously the result is failure.

[geckosfeet]

51. Not speakng for my situation in particular. But my sense is that this

is the corporate message regarding minimum/low wage workers.

I did 't give up. And find that fortune indeed smiled upon me. But i do know that many thousands of workers have not been as fortunate.

[grasswire]

52. thank you for sharing your experience

The only remedy I can think of is to develop some kind of job of your own making that targets the rich tourism in northern Maine. Some kind of service, or craft, or art. You write well -- that's a good skill.

I have a young family member who also is in college with no work-study available, and no meal plan. Fortunately, he lives across the street from a bagel bakery and they have an unlocked dumpster.

[Eleanors38]

34. In Texas they call that "right to work."

Non-living wages is a stand alone problem. Education, expertise & skills should be rewarded, but the lowest-wage job should have a living wage floor. And workers should have a protected right to organize.

We start with food workers, succeed, and move from there.

[El_Johns]

40. Every society in history had some kind of mechanism to recruit exceptional people from the lower

classes. Even in Imperial China at the height of its decadence there were such "success stories".

But meaningless in the larger picture, just as they are today.

[Chico Man]

41. It's not about being recruited or being exceptional

This assumes you sit back and wait to be chosen, and if you are not it must be someone elses' fault.

This isn't major league baseball. You want $15 an hour? Go get it.

[El_Johns]

42. "Recruit" in the generic sense of "enlist" doesn't assume people sit back & wait.

Ambitious young men from the hinterlands spent a great deal of time preparing themselves for the Imperial exams & actively sought advancement in the system.


The imperial examination was a civil service examination system in Imperial China designed to select the best potential candidates to serve as administrative officials, for the purpose of recruiting them for the state's bureaucracy...

Theoretically testing and selecting candidates for merit, this system had a huge influence on both society and culture in Imperial China and was partly responsible for changes in the power balances of the Tang... and Song Dynasties...

At times, the result of the examination system was replacement of what had been relatively few aristocratic families with a more diffuse and populous class of typically rural-dwelling, landowning scholar-bureaucrats, organized into clans.

Established in 605 during the Sui Dynasty...The system continued with some modifications until its 1905 abolition under the Qing Dynasty...

Theoretically, any male adult in China, regardless of his wealth or social status, could become a high-ranking government official. Many individuals moved from a low social status to political prominence through success in imperial examination. Examples include Wang Anshi, who proposed reforms to make the exams more practical, and Zhu Xi, whose interpretations of the Four Classics became the orthodox Neo-Confucianism which dominated later dynasties...

The Confucian-based examinations meant that the local elites and ambitious would-be members of those elites across the whole of China were taught with similar values. Even though only a small fraction (about 5 percent) of those who attempted the examinations actually passed them and even fewer received titles, the hope of eventual success sustained their commitment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination


Social mobility research on the US says that it IS about the "exceptions," as only 35% of those born into the bottom 20% (economically) make it any further than the bottom 40%, with only 6% making it into the top 20% -- the only economic class in the US which holds any real wealth. This isn't too much better than the social mobility in Imperial China.


Research on American mobility published in 2006 and based on collecting data on the economic mobility of families across generations looked at the probability of reaching a particular income-distribution with regard to where their parents were ranked.

The study found that 42 percent of those whose parents were in the bottom quintile ended up in the bottom quintile themselves, 23 percent of them ended in the second quintile, 19 percent in the middle quintile, 11 percent in the fourth quintile and 6 percent in the top quintile.[23] These data indicate the difficulty of upward intergenerational mobility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility


The advance from minimum wage to $15/hour ($31K) is like advancing from field slave to house slave. $31K won't support a family with any degree of security & doesn't offer much chance to build any secure wealth. Half of Americans make $15/hour or less.

[Chico Man]

43. If you want to start a family

Might want to consider the cost of doing so.

[El_Johns]

44. Are you saying that half the population shouldn't reproduce because the system is set up so

that they make less than $30K?

[Chico Man]

45. If that's how the system is setup

Don't be surprised if you start a family and can't support it by working a minimum wage job.

That's acknowledging reality; that doesn't mean reality can't change. That's not something that is going to happen over night.

[El_Johns]

46. A few posts ago you were exhorting people to go out & get their $15/hour; now you're telling

them they can't reproduce.

I don't even understand why you went there.

The fact is that more than 7% of working age adults are unemployed (counting those who are homeless, on disability, long-term unemployed, etc.)

Combine that with the fact that the median wage for those who ARE employed is $27K & you have a situation where more than half the population, according to you, doesn't have enough income to be qualified to reproduce.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

Perhaps only the top 20% should be allowed to spawn, eh?

[Chico Man]

48. I never said they can't reproduce

I did say that they shouldn't be surprised about the consequences - at least in today's current economy.

Common sense goes a long way.

[nomorenomore08]

62. Yeah, who needs a living wage, right? These peasants should be *happy*

to make $8 an hour and live on food stamps! But you'd probably say they want a "handout" or something.

[Chico Man]

64. It is important

I value a living wage - anything that keeps me out of my parents basement. So to speak.

[Egalitarian Thug]

53. And are the still the exception. Just as a system that works 80% of the time,

fails 20% of the time and a complex society like ours' cannot survive when 1 in 5 of its members are deprived when the system is working.

You might want to re-thing this part as well: "Let's not ignore the fact that low wage workers are free to seek higher wages" as that is exactly the same logic that allowed Victorianism to flourish.
Compare your statement to this: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Being "free" to do something does not make that something likely or even possible.

[Chico Man]

55. "Being 'free' to do something does not make that something likely or even possible."

"Being 'free' to do something does not make that something likely or even possible."

I'm trying to wrap my head around this statement. I'm trying to consider alternatives - but that doesn't sound right - at all.

Fundamentally we need to be free to work hard (within the law) and build wealth as a result (if so desired). We need a system that provides enough structure to make that possible, while also providing a safety net for those that truly need it. For those that don't really care, I don't really know. Set them up in some government construed role? If they care enough to participate.

Of course this is a continually waxing and waning balancing act in a participatory democracy. Every day the system works and the system fails. We haven't yet been able to scientifically classify, categorize, and predict the behavior of human societies - there is a good deal of chance involved as a result. Guess it's all part of the human condition. Frankly, I like it better that way.

[Egalitarian Thug]

56. Of course you do, you won (or at least believe you won). The winners always like the game,

the losers never do, the point I was trying to make is that is the game is unsustainable. The Big Winner, or casino model is a great way to bring the suckers into the game, but it requires a strong and steady stream of new suckers coming in and losing in order to keep going. Do you think a state government would last if the lottery was the only source of income allowed to that state?

The Anatole France quotation demonstrates the cynical indifference of both his and our times toward the losers.

[Chico Man]

57. What kind of game allows players to make up their own rules?

Or what "winning" means? Or what brings them happiness?

The wildcard present in our current society is that everyone is free to define their own measure of success - hence that pyramid comes tumbling down. There is no common thread. It's not a casino model. No one is forced to participate or achieve the same ends.

[Egalitarian Thug]

58. Possibly the silliest thing I'll read today.

I'm sorry you don't want a discussion, the mistake was mine.
Buh-by

[Chico Man]

59. "Whatever makes you happy"

[nomorenomore08]

60. Free to seek higher wages? In what "libertarian" fantasy world?

[Chico Man]

61. Like, you know

Find a better paying job?

If it's that important, seems like a noble pursuit.

Or just sit around angry and complain about the man all day. If that's what is important, by all means, go for it. No one is stopping you.

[nomorenomore08]

63. And if there *are* no better paying jobs? And what jobs there are don't pay enough to live on?

Tough shit, right? The unworthy and their offspring can just starve under a bridge, I guess...

[Chico Man]

65. Seems like plenty of work to be done to me

Opportunity hides in the unlikeliest of places.

[nomorenomore08]

66. What we need is an equivalent to the WPA back in the 30's. Put unemployed people to work

in jobs that pay decently and benefit the rest of us. But we also need to drastically increase (by several dollars an hour, probably over a few years) the minimum wage.

And frankly, in the context of the contemporary American economy, a lot of your posts read like silly platitudes.

[Chico Man]

68. Yeah

I should be more angry and toe the line like everyone else here. Here here to wealth distribution! But let's not have a conversation about it!

What do you suggest everyone work on in this grand reinvention of depression era economic revival?

[nomorenomore08]

69. Just that some of your "prescriptions" are unrealistic, especially nowadays, that's all.

I want to work for a living. So do the vast majority of people - the number of true "freeloaders" is quite low, I can reassure you. But good-paying jobs, and in a lot of places jobs period, have all but disappeared. What the hell are people supposed to do, other than live on government assistance - which is not a way many people actually want to live, especially since said benefits barely pay enough to survive on.

[MFrohike]

67. Prove it

Feel free to prove how most minimum-wage workers, which will include a horde of middle-class teenagers, will graduate with no debt. I am most interested to hear this story.

[Chico Man]

70. First of all

I'm not certain "most" minimum wage workers are interested. For those that truly are:

1) don't start a family. (Yet )
2) manage your money and time very carefully
3) don't use credit cards
4) don't assume you have to take out student loans
5) apply to a wide range of schools
6) show a lot of passion and interest in the world
7) be honest
8) go in and talk with financial aid. Lay out your story, lay out your case.
9) show how you are going to make a difference in the world

You'd be surprised at how receptive both schools and employers are to those that have the confidence and wherewithal to sell themselves in a good light.

And if you want a guarantee?

Go into teaching. There is loan forgiveness.

Go into the military. There is the GI bill.

[MFrohike]

72. A suggestion

"Also there is such a thing as "need based" financial aid - that is the lower the income, the lower the cost. For most minimum wage workers attending many colleges this means basically no student loans at graduation."

Those are your words from your first post. You made a clear and unambiguous claim that most, in your own words, minimum wage workers could graduate from college debt-free or nearly so. I asked you to prove that claim. In response, you've given me platitudes and vague advice. The advice isn't that good, either. Loan forgiveness wouldn't help your claim of "basically no student loans at graduation." Talk with financial aid? I have to wonder if you ever did that. They check what federal/state meets your eligibility and tell you good luck on finding other sources of aid. Passion and interest in the world? What does that even mean? Show how you'll make a difference? Perhaps you have a concrete way of showing exactly what that means.

You made a definite claim. I asked for proof, by which I meant definite evidence. If I'd asked for proof of gravity, you could have dropped a book to prove your claim. Your reply is not that. Your reply is more like telling me that if I try to talk to gravity and make it understand what a special snowflake I am, somehow I will understand the principles of it. If what I've said is not yet clear, I will make one last attempt. Lay out an actual case of how someone could graduate from college, which I assumes means 4 year degree, either debt-free or nearly so, we'll say within $5000, by the time they graduate. That is what it means to prove your case.

[Chico Man]

74. Sigh

Definitive proof? Go to Princeton. There are no student loans. Based on your demeanor I doubt you would get in. They are interested in those wanting to make a difference in the world, irregardless of economic background. You just come across as whiny.

Here is your proof. Now if only Princeton would accept everyone irregardless of EVERYTHING. Just accept everyone. Is that the kind of world you are seeking?

http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/whats_great/

[MFrohike]

75. Try again

If you don't want to be held to account for your statements, don't make them. As for whether or not I'd be accepted, I don't think you really should pontificate on that when you end your sentences with prepositions and use fake words like irregardless.

Oh, the fact that one school offers a loan-free education does not prove your point of most minimum wage workers. You could have pointed to Davidson in NC just as easily as a school that offers its graduates a debt-free graduation. The fact that there are a few exceptions does not help your argument in the least. Proof would show me how millions of students at hundreds or thousands of schools could take advantage of programs or scholarships to graduate with low or no debt. As I stated before, you made the claim. Don't cry to me that you can't back up your talk.

As for your comment at the kind of world I'm seeking, that was really cute. I like how you moved the goalposts from a failure to prove a point to a subtle claim that I want everyone to have everything without working for anything. Clearly the fact that I'd like kids who graduate college or grad school not to have a mortgage on their back means that I want to make everything easy for everybody. Yeesh.

[Chico Man]

76. There are always exceptions

We live in a world of exceptions. Everyone can apply, no matter where you came from. If you do a really good job explaining your case, you may just be given a once in a lifetime opportunity.

There all all kinds of opportunities. Set aside the whining and complaining and help people find them. They aren't going to magically appear at their doorstep.

As far as being held accountable, I stand by everything I've written here the past 12 years, autocorrected or not.

[MFrohike]

77. I'm stumped

I'm unable to decide whether you're willfully blind to what I've said in response to your claim or if you really don't understand what I've written. Of course, I could be failing to communicate effectively. Perhaps I haven't been clear enough with my posts. I honestly don't know and that stumps me.

Lottery winners are exceptions. Only idiots mistake them for the rule. Your problem is that you claimed the exceptions ARE the rule. If you'd like to walk back that claim, I have no problem with that. If you want to keep avoiding the subject by bringing up hypotheticals that don't apply to what YOU said, that's fine too. Either way, your lack of ability to address your own points is your problem, not mine.

Oh, the bit about how I should stop whining is priceless. You know, I should have added another possibility to the first paragraph of this post. It's entirely possible that I've fallen for a terrible attempt at trolling.

[Chico Man]

78. Perhaps it's because you make no sense

You are defending something you can't efficiently describe from basic common sense. It's a lose lose.

You also never clearly articulated just what it was that I said that makes you so angry.

I think it was the fact that there are many ways to make it through school without burying oneself in debt?

The other way is to consider education an investment that may just be worth a loan or two. If you ever happen to go through a divorce you'll learn that a degree can never be taken away from you. Food for thought .

Now, as far as being held accountable for writing on this board. I came into this discussion because the OP stated that "minimum wage workers work harder than non minimum wage workers". I think that is a statement that needs some of your special brand of accountability policing.

[MFrohike]

79. Thanks for clarifying

It's reading comprehension plus an inability to recognize it. Thanks.

[Chico Man]

80. You mean like this?

You quoted me as saying this

"most minimum-wage workers, which will include a horde of middle-class teenagers, will graduate with no debt."

When I actually said this:

"Also there is such a thing as "need based" financial aid - that is the lower the income, the lower the cost. For most minimum wage workers attending many colleges this means basically no student loans at graduation."

You took great liberty in your interpretation. I'll attribute that to lack of comprehension skills, since we have resorted to childish personal attacks.

Nice work in accomplishing nothing.

[MFrohike]

81. No

That's really I have except for one little observation. If your character or self-worth is rooted in your reading comprehension, that's pretty weird. If that didn't make sense to you, just reflect on how your reading comprehension is a measure of your character or value as a person.

[Chico Man]

82. Huh?

[MFrohike]

83. You are awesome

When I said your reading comprehension was not working, it wasn't a personal attack. I didn't attack your character or value as a person. I just said you clearly had a problem with reading comprehension in this thread. It's always possible you equate self-worth with reading comprehension. If so, I find that weird. I'm not sure how to make it more clear, so I hope that helps.

As for the rest, it was kind of funny for a while. It's too bad nothing lasts.

[mike_c]

27. and yet my own experience contradicts this....

I was poor and uneducated by any standard-- no high school diploma, mostly menial work until I was 30 or so. Low wage jobs carrying heavy things, for the most part. Then I reassessed, returned to school for ten years (and took on the debt). The difference in my life has been amazing. I have had a great career in academic science and I've certainly joined the middle class that, although certainly not what it was in my parents' generation, is a whole lot better than the trajectory I was on before going to school. The second half of my life has been much better than the first, and I attribute that almost entirely to education. I'd still be carrying heavy things for a living if not for higher ed. I count that as definite progress.

[geckosfeet]

38. Good for you. Glad you were able to get ahead.

I too have an advanced degree and a comfy lifestyle.

Not that it helps the low wage chronically underemployed in our society all that much. It has benefited the bankers and financial institutions that sell college tuition loans to a much greater degree.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. 'Your Greed is hurting the economy"

[merrily]

15. Raising the minimum wage is needed, but only a temporary and

incomplete fix.

(Yes, I know I am responding to a cartoon--which is cute--but I wanted to make the point.)


The minimum wage goes up, but then so do prices and therefore the cost of living. Before long, purchasing power is back to where it was in 1975 again.

For one thing, we have to stop giving away the nation's money, breathable air, potable water, airwaves and other natural resources to the rich for nothing or way too little.

And we have to raise taxes, starting with FICA.

[Egalitarian Thug]

54. I agree. Just feel it's important for you to realize that the

minimum wage causes inflation argument is entirely fallacious and in fact, when the numbers are examined without the agenda, every time the minimum wage is raised it has correlated to a rise in the overall economy with no inflation at all. Thom Hartmann has gathered tons of info on this myth.

[gtar100]

23. That cartoon isn't far from reality.

[stillwaiting]

4. A Time to Change the Direction of Wealth Redistribution

Wealth Redistribution has been occurring quite rapidly over the past 3 to 4 decades.

It is time to change the direction in which it is occurring.

Failure to do so means the destruction of the American way of life as the middle and working classes continue to slip into poverty, and our poverty classes swell in ranks at the same time that conservatives are attempting to destroy our social safety nets.

I'm not a huge fan of only using the term "wealth redistribution" when referring to shifting resources down the economic pyramid. It plays in to the blindness and naiveté of conservative "thought".

[cascadiance]

36. I was going to say this... Wealth redistribution HAS ALREADY BEEN HAPPENING for decades

It's just been going the wrong direction which has created this mess. We need to REVERSE the direction it's been going to RESTORE BALANCE to our economy and people's lives. We need to emphasize this in case the wingnuts try to make "redistribution" a bad word echoing the Koch brothers message machine. We have to emphasize that we need to restore the 99%'s wealth that has been stolen from them over the years by those who have had the control of redistributing it to themselves for way too long now.

[Chico Man]

6. But as low-wage work proliferates in America

"But as low-wage work proliferates in America, so-called takers are working as hard if not harder than anyone else, and often at more than one job."

That's not objective reporting, that's clearly biased.

If only all that hard work were directed at finding a higher wage job..

[Puzzledtraveller]

11. +1

[merrily]

16. If only some of that hard work were directed at creating higher wage jobs in the US.

People don't work two or three low wage jobs rather than one decent-paying job because of lack of effort in job seeking.

[Chico Man]

24. The whole premise is flawed

I guarantee you the individual working the HARDEST to find a higher wage job in the US (yes #1 out of 80 million minimum wage workers) is going to succeed in that quest.

Yes, this sounds ridiculous and obvious, about as ridiculous as the OP.

[merrily]

39. We disagree.

So, no, your premise doesn't sound obvious at all. It sounds unrealistic.

As far as your guaranty, what value should I place on an online guaranty from someone posting under a screen name? Not exactly persuasive.

[Chico Man]

71. Wow

That's pretty absurd. Why debate on an online message board then? Did you even read what I wrote? Let's talk about the message then.

[TBF]

7. Easy fix - put the capital gains tax back to the same

as income. That was the big change that allowed investors to make so much money off their accounts.

Second fix - raise minimum wage.

[abelenkpe]

17. I'd add

Stop rewarding companies for off shoring good paying jobs and instead reward them for keeping jobs in country.

[TBF]

30. Also a good idea. nt

[Blus4u]

9. Hear, Hear for the concrete suggestions...

Excellent post with some concrete suggestions posed for a change. (Should have known it was Robert Reich).

My greatest fear is that, without political recourse, we will get to the point when hopelessness and circumstance eventually forces this to be taken to the streets and we will witness and endure the "head-cracking" such as never seen before in this country or any other, given the current militarization of our 'civil' law enforcement authorities.

Similar thread but without any good suggestions:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024147858



Peace

[Coyotl]

10. The time for wealth redistribution is long past. I was on board in 1970.

I though the distribution of wealth in the USA was atrocious in 1970!

[Starry Messenger]

12. K&R

[merrily]

14. Wealth redistribution has been going on forever--in the direction of

the powerful and the rich.

They have been winning class warfare milennia before everyone else caught on that there was such as thing as class warfare.

(Thank you Occupy Wall Street, for informing so many.)

[ctsnowman]

18. X 1000

[Dustlawyer]

19. The place to start is at the root of the problem. Why do the politicians protect the wealthy?

Because they provide the money to keep the pols in office! We have to march, protest, write letters and find candidates who will force Publicly Funded Elections. We will not get the big changes we need without making the 1st big change of getting the money out of politics. Our Representatives will be OURS again if we can do this. They will then have to listen to the people and not the corporations. Bust up the banking and media conglomerates and get rid of the oligopolies!

[davidthegnome]

20. Redistribution...

No politician wants to mention it because it scares the hell out of them. Most of our politicians ARE the 1%. They are living in an all expenses paid, high salary, awesome benefits world that most of us can only dream of wistfully. For all this, they still cannot function well. Government shut down, cuts across the board on the way for those in need, trade agreements written by the 1%, for the 1%. Politicians like Rand Paul who worship the wealthy because they "create jobs", never mind the fact that the jobs created are minimum wage and don't offer benefits. Never mind the people who will never be able to afford high education, who can't even dream of a middle class existence.

Pull yourself up by your boot straps, work 60-100 hours a week and save, and maybe you too can retire by the time you're 90. Unless you have children, or you get sick, or your home is foreclosed on, or you lose your job/s....

Deserving, undeserving, who decides these things? Some politician in a committee? Job creators like the Koch Brothers, like Mitt Romney, like my own millionaire boss who is stripping benefits from his employees so he can cruise exotic locations another time or three before he has to tighten his belt and maybe sell one of his hotels.

No. The wealthy aren't going to change, or promote change, or do a damned thing, unless we force the issue - and how do we force it? The Citizens United Ruling lists democracy for sale to the highest bidder. Politicians are kissing more ass than ever before - more rich ass, it's better powdered, you know, and might get them enough campaign dollars for their next run, in which they will promise so much, and deliver so little.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a supporter of violent revolution, but I suspect that if we laid down in front of corporate trucks, they'd simply keep on driving and a great many judges would rule no foul - damned hippies should've moved!

There is a slight percentage of the wealthy and ultra wealthy that favor liberal policy and progressive change, but they are greatly in the minority - and if the system in place promotes the expansion of their wealth and advantage, perhaps they will not try so hard to create change.

Our populace is too damn tired. We're struggling with two or three jobs, endless debt, a failing infrastructure, a tea party congress and a Supreme Court that should not be trusted to tie their own shoes, let alone make rulings that are vital to our Nation. Meanwhile, charter schools to de-fund and divide our public education are all the rage, celebrity nonsense fills the media, food stamps are being cut while the price of food goes up...

Sure, it's time for redistribution. Past time. It's not going to happen though. There is no force here that can force the issue.

[TBF]

31. "It's not going to happen though."

Well it may not happen on a bourgeoisie message board but it will happen. I don't know how bad it will get (but as I watch the union busting, low wages, and austerity measures continue I fear it will get pretty bad). At some point though enough people will get to the point where they have very little or nothing to lose.

[TacoD]

47. Bourgeoisie message board...oh snap! (nt)

[Eleanors38]

35. When did unions thrive? The Depression. It'll happen.

[gtar100]

21. What do rich people know about hard earned income?

"Hard earned" is when you actually *work* and your body and mind know it and what is earned isn't excessive and isn't from screwing other people over. Using trickery and deceit to get money isn't working hard, it's theft.

[Moostache]

22. Fuck the "makers"...that whole meme must DIE!

The fact of the matter is that the longer we allow people to trot out the tired nonsense of "makers" and "takers" the more it becomes acceptable in the minds of too many people. The "makers" are good at one thing and one thing only - extracting their wealth from the lives and labors of others. I am constantly forced to think of investment bankers, venture capitalists and billion-dollar-a-year hedge fund managers (also known as "bookies" in another time and place). These professions give us a large percentage of the 1%. These are NOT "makers" in any sense of the word.

They do not create, they destroy.
They do not build, they raze.
They do not help, they harm.
They do not bring anything useful into existence, they take remuneration disproportionally to their true value.

Fire fighters, teachers, sanitation workers, nurses, and many, many, many more professions and people are FAR more vital to a healthy and functioning society than these parasitic leeches. And yet, they set the agenda for the nation. They steer the ship of commerce in ways that tip the game HEAVILY in their favor and in ways that allow them to horde their ill-gotten gains and "wealth".

True wealth is NOT something that is earned or retained or held by an individual. True wealth is what a person gives back to the world and the ways they impact lives beyond their own or their immediate family's lives to actually make a difference that they lived at all. The advancement of human knowledge, the prevention or alleviation of suffering, even the act of making another sentient being smile and enjoy their life just a little bit more for the brief seconds they may encounter you...THESE things are true wealth and make far more difference in the overall health of society than another Bentley in the garage of your sixth McMansion in another tax-haven location.

The top 1% at one time were taxed in the 90% range and the overall economy was more stable and more equitable and more dynamic than the current mess. The data is clear and is diametrically opposed to the meme of "takers" ruining everything. Its the "makers" - as currently defined - that are the problem. Instead of allowing these people to "give" (ie. BUY) to political causes, its time to simply return their ill gotten gains to the public domain and utilize the fruits of the economic system to improve the human condition for ALL citizens instead of the 1% and their progeny.

21st century America is the equivalent of a shipwrecked community that has access to enough food to feed and support 99 of them, yet 1 person holds the key to unlocking the food supply for all and instead of releasing it, uses it as a weapon to force 9 other people to help suppress the other 90. Subsistence level amounts of food are allowed to make it out, but the largess that could make life for the entire community more bearable and even more idyllic is held in bins to rot rather than to allow that because it would harm the power of the 1. Its not a perfect analogy, but its a lot closer to reality than the idiotic "takers-v-makers" nonsense...

Didn't mean to get off on a rant there, but I'm just so sickened by the popular mess I see every day that I can't take it any more!

[hunter]

25. I think the uber-wealthy class ought to be taxed out of existence.

Make taxes so progressive that NOBODY makes more than a certain multiple of minimum wage, probably a multiple less than twenty... And some of our uber-wealthy class ought to be in prison.

Yeah, I know it's a utopian fantasy, but it's my model for supporting progressive taxation, and rejecting regressive taxation.

The very wealthy enjoy all the benefits of this society, while the poor suffer the wretched abusiveness of it.

[jsr]

29. Same with the "job creators" meme. It's blatant bullshit.

[mike_c]

26. some torches and pitchforks, too....

eom

[Cleita]

32. Robert Reich has it right.

Now to get our lawmakers to pay attention to him.

[marmar]

49. k/r

[reformist2]

73. Seems to me the so-called "makers" don't work as hard as the rest of us...

Redistribution is sounding better and better every day!