Energy source Poll. please give your input.

[darkangel218]

11 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	We should switch to Solar and Wind , Biomass and Biofuel as soon as possible.
	7 (64%)
	Keep Nuclear and/or Coal industry.
	3 (27%)
	1 (9%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[kristopher]

1. This poll doesn't provide a realistic picture of the alternatives.

Renewables encompass a wider array of technologies than just wind and solar. There are also several hydro technologies, biomass, biofuels, and three distinct contributing geothermal technologies.

[darkangel218]

3. Youre right.

Sorry. I will change it.

[intaglio]

2. If you gave the real options then your "poll" might be worth something

Firstly, renewables are not just "wind and solar"; there's hot rock, large scale hydro-electric, small scale hydro, on shore wind, off shore wind, PV solar, concentrator solar, tidal and wave.

Try
1) Move to renewable sources only as rapidly as possible by reducing consumption
2) Move to renewables as major sources but keep some nuclear and fossil fuel
3) Integrate renewables but keep nuclear and fossil as the major sources
4) Renewables will alway be more expensive stick with nuclear and fossil fuels

[darkangel218]

4. Good points.

My speech professor sounded like you. Try .. and this... And this! Lol sorry!!

[darkangel218]

7. No offence, i apreciate all the help. I wasnt born here.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. Renewables won't always be more expensive

So much for "real options". Switching ASAP is the only reasonable choice on that poll (even if some of the phrasing could be improved).


http://www.cleanenergyauthority.com/solar-energy-news/solar-global-grid-parity-by-2020-111513



^snip^



Solar photovoltaic installations will be cost-competitive with more traditional electricity sources by 2020, according to a report released earlier this week.

Navigant Research, a firm dedicated to researching emerging technology markets for investors, recently released its Solar PV Market Forecast. The report explores the increasing affordability of solar as well as the expiring incentives and subsidies globally.

The market has been around long enough and seen enough growth that researchers now have the data and tools to accurately forecast its growth, Navigant asserts.

“Following years of solar PV module oversupply and unsustainable, often artificially low pricing, 2013 is expected to be the year that the global solar PV market begins to stabilize,” according to the executive summary.

[intaglio]

25. I was not saying they are

I was offering suggestions for a more informative poll.

[Motown_Johnny]

27. not trying to pick a fight here.. but....

Your 4th choice says "always be more expensive".

I was simply trying to inform you, and any other readers, that it is not reasonable to assume that they will always be more expensive.

[intaglio]

34. A poll can be skewed by not including options you do not agree with

like "more expensive".

And anyway I was only offering suggestions to the OP.

My personal views have been expressed elsewhere but to save you the trouble of searching I'll make it clear that I have always supported renewables and in the past couple of years moved from my original position that nuclear kettles would assist.

[solarhydrocan]

5. solar + hydrogen

If a few billion dollars blown on the Middle East wars (>$2,000 per second) was spent on Hydrogen storage tech we'd already be independent

[badtoworse]

13. Hydrogen is not an easy fuel to handle

It is prone to leaks, highly flammable and burns with an invisible flame. I like the idea of converting solar energy into a transportation fuel, but I don't think it would be safe to use, especially if the public were to dispense it into their vehicles as we currently do with gasoline.

[solarhydrocan]

14. the guy in the video fuels his car with it

he's using 6Li (lithium-6) H (hydride) for storage and he gets ~400 miles from the tanks you see in the still shot.

EDIT to add: BMW has a hydrogen car now, so does Honda

The future is closer than you think.

The BMW Hydrogen 7 is the world's first production-ready hydrogen vehicle. It's already proving itself in the real world too: we're putting 100 of them to the test as loan cars for leading figures from the worlds of culture, politics, business and the media, including Oscar-winning film director Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck and Erich Sixt, chairman of rental car company Sixt AG.



Real-world experience shows that switching to hydrogen can go hand in hand with the comfort, dynamics and safety you'd expect from a BMW.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/efficient_dynamics/phase_2/clean_energy/bmw_hydrogen_7.html

I repeat:

If a few billion dollars blown on the Middle East wars (>$2,000 per second) was spent on Hydrogen storage tech we'd already be independent

Water is (almost) everywhere- h20
Split the oxygen from the hydrogen in a garage with a battery-hooked to solar
put the gas in a tank

Some R+D would be able to solve this if the US wasn't spending all the time and brains on drones and spying

Former Area 51 employee Bob Lazar is interviewed by Visual Effects Supervisor Jon Farhat. In this video, they discuss what H1 (hydrogen) is, how it is created and it's potential in the automotive sector. In addition, Bob show us he has his own particle accelerator which he uses to create 6Li (lithium-6) H (hydride) for H1 storage.

6Li is used to store hydrogen safely and efficiently. It is also one of the key components in making a thermal-nuclear weapon, but by itself is not dangerous. Because of crony capitalism and ignorant politicians, the US government has banned 6Li and the buying and selling of it. However, the making of 6Li H yourself with your own particle accelerator IS NOT!

Bob uses solar panels to power an H1 generator which produces H1 from H2O (water). For the safe and efficient storage of the dangerous H1, 6Li H must be created with a particle accelerator and used for H1 storage in high compression tanks. With the H1 generator, H1 is forced into the 6Li H tanks through the syringe compression process.

Bob is the owner of of United Nuclear Scientific and Switch2Hydrogen. Jon is the owner of ODEMAX and director of this video.

If we can fly 2 men to the moon we can figure out how to store hydrogen.

And it's everywhere water is.

[badtoworse]

15. You evidently know a lot more about it than I do

My experience with hydrogen is with its use as a coolant in large electrical generators (GE Frame 7FA turbine generators). Hydrogen gas performs much better than air in that application. I'm sure you know the difficulties and precautions applicable to handling hydrogen as H2 - it is dangerous.

I'm unfamiliar with the technology you referenced, but it would be great if it can do what you say at reasonable cost.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. Electrolysis is not energy efficient.

It is a good way to store extra energy so that it is not wasted, but not a reasonable primary energy source.


It will always take more energy to produce the hydrogen than you will get out of it. In rough numbers, you get back about 75% of the energy used. So ~25% is lost, just to store that energy as Hydrogen. If you are going to still use batteries to power electric vehicles, then the extra step of making hydrogen makes little to no sense. If you are going to power the vehicles with hydrogen directly it does make a bit more sense.

Unfortunately, natural gas works just as well as pure hydrogen for this purpose. It is also less expensive and easier to produce. Sure, you can extract the hydrogen from the natural gas, but that makes no sense either. You are just adding a step (again) and releasing the carbon into the atmosphere at a production site somewhere instead of in the vehicle.

[solarhydrocan]

30. It costs nothing but the initial investment to produce hydrogen

from solar.



Electrolysis can be free.

[Motown_Johnny]

42. If you put 100 KWh in, you get maybe 75 KWh out

You use electricity to separate out hydrogen and use that hydrogen to produce electricity.

That process reduces the net amount of electricity you have.


That also raises the costs, nothing is free.

[RKP5637]

6. Yep, we need to switch to better more eco-friendly energy sources. n/t

[badtoworse]

8. What about natural gas? This poll is meaningless without showing it as an option.

[darkangel218]

9. I dont agree with fracking.

Do you?

[badtoworse]

12. Very much so, but what difference does that make?

Whether you like it or not, fracking is here to stay. Our use of natural gas as a fuel to generate power has increased substantially in the last 5 years and natural gas combined cycles are replacing most of the retiring coal fired capacity. All the forecasts I've seen project substantially increased use of gas for the next 25 years.

Sorry, but your poll is ridiculous if you leave out natural gas.

[Motown_Johnny]

18. It may not be here to stay.

Earthquakes have been caused by it. Ground water has been contaminated by it. Farmers have been outbid for water rights due to it.


It is here now, but that does not mean it will always be here.

[badtoworse]

23. It's highly unlikely that fracking will stop anytime soon

A substantial portion of our energy future is built around fracking and virtually every forecast I've seen projects substantial increases in natural gas usage for at least the next 25 years.

[Motown_Johnny]

28. I agree, it won't be soon

But projections have solar energy being cost competitive with non-renewable sources (presumably natural gas included) in 2020.


Projections also have the (I hate these terms but they are the ones that are used) white vote falling below 2/3 of the electorate in 2020.


It will be nearly impossible for the (R)s to continue as a national party beyond that point unless they somehow increase their percentage of the non-white vote.

I hope that once these two changes occur, almost simultaneously, that a real energy policy will emerge and Fracking will be greatly curtailed if not phased out.

[badtoworse]

29. What makes you think a Democratic majority would end fracking?

Lots of Democrats come from oil and gas producing states. Not only that, but the prospect of reducing our trade imbalance by exporting LNG would have appeal on both sides of the aisle.

As far as solar being cost competitive, it likely will be at some point. Cost, however, is not the onmly consideration. Without major breakthroughs in energy storage, grid stability will be a concern as larger and larger amounts of uncontrolled generation are connected to the grid.

[Motown_Johnny]

43. I think that environmental and health concerns will factor in.

There are hidden costs to burning fossil fuels. Once the price per KWh cost is similar then those hidden costs will actually make fossil fuels more expensive.


As I mentioned above, farmers are being outbid for water rights just so energy companies can frak. Ground water is being polluted from this fraking liquid and earthquakes are being caused because you are displacing a gas with a liquid (not to mention climate change and air pollution).


I think another 6-8 years of this will help sway public opinion, assuming the profits no longer have such an overwhelming influence.

[Puzzledtraveller]

10. I think the ".........." option provides the greater promise for sustainable energy.

[el_bryanto]

11. I'm sure I won't be the only person to say this but Nuclear and Coal are not synonymous

The best way would be to suggest what our strategy should be by ordering the various options - but that is not possible iwthout a pretty sophisticated polling tool.

Another question is do we need to get used to using 1/2 to 1/3 of the energy we are using right now in the US.

Bryant

[darkangel218]

21. We defenitly can and should use less energy.

What's wrong with using a candle late in the evening. I grew up doing my homework on an oil lamp.

Or the lanterns who are motioned powered.

Use electrical only if absolutely necessary.

[Javaman]

19. I have a 1310 sq ft house for just me and my gf...

we have solar.

we currently have a $395 energy credit.

our "extra" energy gets distrubed to our immediate neighbors...at a charge by the city, of course.

[darkangel218]

20. +1 million

I wish people would finally understand how effective Solar power is.

Thank you for doing what you're doing.

[FarCenter]

22. You have a very long way to go to replace 86.15 out of 95.1 Quads of annual usage.

90.5% of US energy usage is nuclear and fossil fuels. Biomass is mostly waste forest products burned by paper mills and cogeneration plants. The next largest source of renewable energy is hydroelectric, but people don't want more rivers dammed.

[solarhydrocan]

31. We could try

like Germany @ 50 north latitude

Germany is the world's top photovoltaics (PV) installer, with a solar PV capacity of 35.308 gigawatts (GW) at the end of October 2013. The German new solar PV installations increased by about 7.6 GW in 2012, and solar PV provided 18 TWh (billion kilowatt-hours) of electricity in 2011, about 3% of total electricity. Some market analysts expect this could reach 25 percent by 2050. Germany has a goal of producing 35% of electricity from renewable sources by 2020 and 100% by 2050.

Large PV power plants in Germany include Senftenberg Solarpark, Finsterwalde Solar Park, Lieberose Photovoltaic Park, Strasskirchen Solar Park, Waldpolenz Solar Park, and Köthen Solar Park.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany

Right now drones and big bank bailouts and 24/7/365 spying are Washington DC priorities.

[FarCenter]

32. US total electrical generation currently is over 1000 GW, about 30 times German solar.

And note that even with more solar for electrical generation, it doesn't affect the use of fossil fuels for industrial and transportation applications, which are the largest consumers of energy.

[solarhydrocan]

36. size of land in sq miles of US: 3,536,290

size of land in sq miles of Germany: 134,623

People seem to always be able to come up with a million reasons why ideas are silly. It's quite a shift from the Kennedy mindset of going to the moon in a decade.

The American people deserve to be dependent on foreign oil, fracking and risky leaky nuclear fission reactors. Because the big warning sounded in the early '70s and since then nothing has been done at all. Neither the (R)'s or the (D)'s have done a GD thing.

And how much energy is spent and has been spent on conquering lands 8000 miles away? Global warming? What a joke. The US military contributes more in 5 minutes to any warming than the entire nation does driving cars and leaving lights on for weeks.

The naysayers and the do nothings have ruled for at least 40 years too long. It's way past time to think outside the boxes and do something. Maybe pull some scientists off the latest drone projects, or repurpose the brains that build huge data centres for an org that spies on the world.

[FarCenter]

44. I'm fine with thinking outside the box -- I've done a lot of it in my career.

Just be sure your out-of-the box solutions are consistent with physics, chemistry, and economics.

[snooper2]

24. Bad Poll, where is the option to invest 100 billion into FUSION POWER!

It's coming...

Bet your ass...Fusion is the way of the future! Once we harness the energy of stars things will change on a massive scale-

[Laelth]

26. I don't care for this poll.

I say keep and expand nuclear, eliminate coal (if we can), continue to support solar (in some areas it works), and eliminate wind (a complete boondoggle).

How's that for a nuanced response?

-Laelth

[sakabatou]

33. In the future, I'm sure fusion will pick up

[Warren DeMontague]

35. I voted for blank

read: Fusion.

[BainsBane]

37. You are tempting me

Note that I am exercising great restraint.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. You do know the rule, though

When someone puts it in the zone, there is almost a moral obligation to swing.

[BainsBane]

39. Since you insist

Let me help you fill in the blanks

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Harumph Harumph Harumph

That's it, I'm not sharing my discovery with YOUUU!!

[BainsBane]

41. That's over my head anyway

I can handle eating the toast. The vectors, fogetabout it. The real question is, does it work on dogs?