General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRolling Stone: The High Cost of Cheap Meat
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You are a typical egg-laying chicken in America, and this is your life: Youre trapped in a cage with six to eight hens, each given less than a square foot of space to roost and sleep in. The cages rise five high and run thousands long in a warehouse without windows or skylights. You see and smell nothing from the moment of your birth but the shit coming down through the open slats of the battery cages above you. It coats your feathers and becomes a second skin; by the time youre plucked from your cage for slaughter, your bones and wings breaking in the grasp of harried workers, you look less like a hen than an oil-spill duck, blackened by years of droppings. Your eyes tear constantly from the fumes of your own urine, you wheeze and gasp like a retired miner, and youre beset every second of the waking day by mice and plaguelike clouds of flies. If youre a broiler chicken (raised specifically for meat), thanks to meat science and its chemical levers growth hormones, antibiotics and genetically engineered feed you weigh at least double what you would in the wild, but lack the muscle even to waddle, let alone fly. Like egg-laying hens your comrades in suffering you get sick young with late-life woes: heart disease, osteoporosis. Its frankly a mercy youll be dead and processed in 45 days, yanked from your floor pen and slaughtered. The egg-layers you leave behind will grind on for another two years or so (or until theyre spent and cant produce any more eggs), then theyre killed too.
Youre a typical milk cow in America, and this is your life. You are raised, like pigs, on a concrete slab in a stall barely bigger than your body. There, you never touch grass or see sun till the day youre herded to slaughter. A cocktail of drugs, combined with breeding decisions, has grossly distended the size of your udder such that youd trip over it if allowed to graze, which of course youre not. Your hooves have rotted black from standing in your own shit, your teats are scarred, swollen and leaking pus infected by mastitis and youre sick to the verge of total collapse from giving nearly 22,000 pounds of milk a year. (Thats more than double what your forebears produced just 40 years ago.) By the time theyve used you up (typically at four years of age), your bones are so brittle that they often snap beneath you and leave you unable to get off the ground on your own power.
Brittle bones arent the only reason cows become nonambulatory. A downer cow is an animal unable to stand on its own due to injury or illness; downers are deemed unfit by the federal government for human consumption. They are three times likelier to harbor a potentially deadly strain of E. coli, and at higher risk of carrying salmonella bacteria and transmitting bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, as its quaintly known. But before youre classified as a downer, Big Meat will use every trick up its wizards sleeve to keep you on your feet. Workers hit you in the eyes with a cattle prod, or in the groin, if you like that better; stick a fire hose down your throat to get you to stand, a ploy inspired by those who brought you Abu Ghraib; and, if all else fails, they hoist you with a forklift and load you onto a flatbed bound for slaughter.
<snip>
But Public Enemy Number One on Pacelles list are the dozen or so companies that gamed the system and usurped the means of production in America. Fifty years ago, before the coming of giants, this countrys cows, pigs and poultry were mostly raised outdoors and sold, for whatever the spot market bore, at livestock auctions for cash. Then Tyson, Perdue and others set about gobbling up feed lots, van lines, slaughterhouses and hatcheries, ran them, top-down, via corporate committees, and turned farmers into wage slaves on their lands, owners of nothing but the mortgages on their barns. With the craven consent of the Department of Agriculture (then, as now, a revolving door for executives in the big-farm sector), they devoured smaller companies, corraled much of the nations livestock and began treating animals as production units, not living, feeling creatures with basic rights. Their motto: maximum profit for minimum input, meaning far fewer workers tending vastly larger stocks, and animals confined in tight, dark spaces for the ease and convenience of staff.
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http://www.rollingstone.com/feature/belly-beast-meat-factory-farms-animal-activists
2naSalit
(86,822 posts)It complements the OP.
villager
(26,001 posts)...even among self-styled progressives...
G_j
(40,372 posts)safer and healthier....just sayin'
villager
(26,001 posts)....it would make a huge difference
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)That would help, too.
villager
(26,001 posts)....all of it important.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)as my wife and I do, and yet, there are certain members who condemn hunters.
I refuse to purchase that factory farmed, chemically laced meat, I much prefer to hunt my chemical free meat and we also donate meat to those less fortunate.
We donated an elk that my wife shot to the local homeless shelter and they were damned glad to accept the meat.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)I'm in Vegas, and the only animals here are cats and dogs stupid people have abandoned...far too many....
You'd have to be in fairly rural area, which you probably are.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)But I do work out of the Federal Bldg. on W. Lake Mead Blvd.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)Oscarmonster13
(209 posts)I have serious anxiety when I walk past the meat area of the store these days. It is almost like you can sense the trauma in the packages... I seriously cringe, and I am not one of those freaks that doesn't like a good steak either. (sorry if that offends)
Here's my question, how different or better are 'cage-free' - 'grass-fed' - 'free range' - 'no antibiotics' and otherwise organic meats? Am I just kidding myself when choosing these kinds of meats, or are the animals genuinely better off?
I have cut us down to a couple meatless nights a week, no problem. I still buy sliced lunchmeat, for the convenience, but for the bulk, our eggs and meats are mostly organic/cagefree/etc. For me it is a guilt thing, for sure. I hate the idea of the commercialized torture that goes on to feed the masses.
villager
(26,001 posts)If more people did the same, and even when buying meat, bought it from producers with more humane practices, it would still make a difference.
2naSalit
(86,822 posts)even if they are raised for slaughter in the end. I have a friend who refuses to buy/eat factory meat and only buys it from a local producer who practices an ethical slaughter, she says the karma that comes with the mass produced stuff ruins her food and passes into you and your spirit. I have always had a feeling that this was so... and I rarely eat meat at all.
Something to consider.
srican69
(1,426 posts)..would be too hard to go vegan.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)and it would be hard to give up milk, cheese and ice cream. I have tried soy ice cream, but nothing beats the real thing.
G_j
(40,372 posts)I truly believe that we take on that cruelty by participating in the factory farm system.
I think the callousness that it takes to ignore the suffering of the animals manifests on other levels, and contributes to a general lack of empathy.
Do we really want our children growing up thinking that certain kinds of cruelty are acceptable?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)it's supposed to be more humane. So the idea has been around for millennia.
arikara
(5,562 posts)We buy eggs, pork and chicken from farms we know, and our local grocery stocks premium range grown beef. Goat milk that says right on the bottle that the animals are free range. I just can't buy meat, eggs or milk from the big stores because it makes me sick to think how those poor animals suffer.
athena
(4,187 posts)Free-range means nothing. It's designed precisely to fool people into thinking they're doing something to prevent animal cruelty. When you buy a "free-range" egg, you're handing over your hard-earned money to a company that tortures animals to increase its profit by fractions of a penny per egg. Take a look at this:
http://livinghomegrown.com/2012/06/decoding-the-terms-cage-free-free-range-pasture-raised-eggs.html
or, better yet, do your own research. Call the company your "free-range" egg came from and ask them how much space each chicken had. Ask them whether their chickens actually spend any time outside the crowded warehouse. Ask them whether the chickens were debeaked. Ask them what happened to the male chicks.
ETA: I see that you were referring to "free-range" goat's milk. The same definition of "free range" is used, meaning the animal does not actually have to ever be outside to be considered "free range". Here is another link:
http://www.woodstocksanctuary.org/learn-3/the-humane-farming-myth/humane-free-range/
G_j
(40,372 posts)good folks!
arikara
(5,562 posts)And in fact I do know where the milk comes from. I make a point of knowing where my food comes from because I don't "believe" in cruelty to other beings.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)They are fresher and better tasting and you can ask and get a sense of how animals are treated.
Here is a list of the terms used on egg packaging
http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/facts/guide_egg_labels.html
A sample:
Free-Roaming: Also known as "free-range," the USDA has defined this claim for some poultry products, but there are no standards in "free-roaming" egg production. This essentially means the hens are cage-free. There is no third-party auditing.
Also, you could see if your city allows chickens and if so, find someone who has some or get your own.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Some grass-fed is really grass-finished.
What I found is that completely grassfed beef (you can order it from a farm) is far tastier and satisfying so you actually eat less of it. That offsets the higher cost. You can further cut costs by going in with another friend and purchasing a whole or half cow.
Eatwild.com is a great resource to locate truly good meat.
DeschutesRiver
(2,354 posts)Granted, during the winter months when the ground is covered by snow, we feed hay, which is either dried and baled grass or the legume alfalfa. And while I am not opposed to antibiotics if needed (if they are sick and I can alleviate their suffering, I will), not once has a single cow in over 10 years required them. The only unexpected deaths we've had here were not preventable by such things as the majority have been predator related, and the rest related to issues at or near birthing. It has been very few however. ETA- they get salt and mineral blocks as well.
Other than the starter herd, they have all been born here, and when we slaughter, it is done here as well with few exceptions (twice at the start before we found a mobile slaughter so that there would not be the stress of trailering the cow to another place). They graze hundreds of acres and water at springs. In the past we sold halves to friends if there is surplus.
Am in the process of finding a local source for chicken and eggs, or at least a source that I can verify their claims of how the animals are treated, fed, etc. Found a local pork source which I bought from and am monitoring for future use, and we fish, but poultry and eggs have been hit/miss in my area.
When we get too old to raise our own herd, I likely will no longer eat meat. It is hard enough finding other sources who raise animals in a way of which I approve; at this point if all else fails, I can at least rely on me with respect to the beef we eat, and just eat that as my only protein if need be, along with copious amounts of local fruits, grains and veggies. I've seen much abuse that has upset me, which is an understatement, and I will not willingly or knowingly ever be a part of that again.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)are so much more delicious than that store bought crap.
mattclearing
(10,091 posts)Grass-fed, free-range, and antibiotic-free livestock may take more resources in terms of water and food, and produce more methane if they live longer, but they are less likely to create industrial waste in the form of sewage and such.
I think the animals are genuinely better off than they would be at a factory farm. However, if you consider the environmental cost of meat-eating vs. vegetarianism (without even broaching the topic of killing and mutilation), it's very difficult to justify. The amount of water that goes into a kg of beef as opposed to a kg of soy is crazy; a few estimates can be found here: http://www.gracelinks.org/blog/1143/beef-the-king-of-the-big-water-footprints
athena
(4,187 posts)It means merely that the animals have "access" to the outside. It doesn't mean they actually ever go outside. A "free-range" egg is just as factory-farmed as any other egg.
http://livinghomegrown.com/2012/06/decoding-the-terms-cage-free-free-range-pasture-raised-eggs.html
mattclearing
(10,091 posts)And I buy organic eggs (which are admittedly crazy expensive, but not as bad if you don't eat meat), but we were discussing the American market, so fair enough.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Unfortunately, the big corps are using those catchphrases because they know consumers are concerned about the health of their food and humane farming practices. Sadly, most of the big chains buy their "organic" and "free range" stuff from foreign countries and often skirt the rules as much as possible. Horizon Organic dairy products is a great example of scuzzy practice and fooling people with their organic certification then putting in fillers like guar gum and algae. Their cows are not grass fed, just fed "organic" feed (probably Chinese) which is not a ruminant diet and is the source of much of the infectious diseases we see in cows along with the deplorable living conditions. It's just tragic.
So the answer is, if you're buying from a big chain, chances are very likely they are buying from a BigAg company and if you knew the truth, you wouldn't be happy. Kroeger will not release where there Simple Organic brand comes from, not the country of origin or the conditions, nada. Tells you something. That "organic" soy bar you're eating, where did it come from and how much rainforest did they bulldoze for it?
So the answer for anyone who wants to eat ethically and organically is rather difficult. It does mean more work, but not necessarily more money.
Buy from a small farm. That is the answer really. Skip Whole Foods whenever possible. Their "organic" stuff comes from foreign countries, is old, and they charge silly prices. Plus their labor practices are shitty. I can't say we never shop there, but every time we do we always feel dumb because the stuff we get from the farm just blows it away.
Check out a CSA in your area and ask them about meat, milk and eggs. Check out http://www.eatwild.com/ to find one. If you are out in the boonies where most people complain you can only shop at WalMart, well, there is most likely a lot of farms near you. Take a weekend and drive around and you will be shocked at how many roadside signs there are for eggs and produce. People are keeping chickens now as part of urban farming. Go to farmers markets. And if you really want to save money and live in the city, go to the ones that are not in the wealthy neighborhoods. I live in SoCal and if you go to the Hollywood or Santa Monica large ones, you will pay more than top dollar. If you go to the smaller ones the rest of the week with the same exact stands, you are likely to pay about 2/3.
We have also moved away from just buying everything "organic" and really ask how it is raised. Organic certification is very expensive, too expensive for many small farms. Plus pastured or grass fed is even better than organic, so when I asked the farmer what he fed his chickens, and he shrugged and said, vegatables, seeds and bugs I knew I had scored. We buy flats of 20 and they are cheaper than the "organic" eggs at Kroeger and they have dark yolks and about 50% are double yolks. That's a happy hen.
Go in with your neighbors on buying a whole or half beef, pork, and lamb. It is grass fed and very well cared for living on a hill its whole life. We pay $3.25 per pound for beef--steaks, filet, roasts, ground beef. We actually have stopped ordering meat when we go to eat because our meat tastes SO much better, better than prime.
We go to the chicken farm to buy chicken and we got our turkey for Thanksgiving. When we brought it to our friend's house for dinner, they had never had a fresh turkey before and they said it was the best turkey they had ever eaten. Yes, more expensive than a Butterball.
Sorry for the long rant. This is something my husband and I both really care about and have been learning as we go along. While most people go to the movies for the weekend, we go to the farm for fun. I spend a lot more time shopping and cooking than I ever did, but I really love it so has become a passion. I just couldn't live with the way food is raised and the thought of eating it made me sick. I was a vegetarian for a decade and suffered many health problems because of it, when I switched my diet it all improved, so we have really worked at the ethical part.
Talking to farmers, you realize you that livestock is part of farming. You must have animals as part of the system or substitute with loads of pesticides. Being vegetarian does not let you off the hook for creating loads of suffering. Monocrops that vegetarians and vegans favor are the worst for the soil such as soy, wheat and corn. And I also didn't think ethical food was a yuppie thing and didn't feel right when people just threw money at it and drove their SUV or Prius to Whole Foods and that was that. I guess I figured it was my duty to put thought and care into all the resources and calories and lives that I as a human consume. And I hate being greenwashed. But the one thing I know is that farming is by its very nature a small scale thing. Once you try to make it big, it messes everything up and they have to add in all the nasty stuff, so going to the source is always the best way. Hope this helps as it's just my experience and we're always learning.
Oscarmonster13
(209 posts)I live in a remote rural area, no access to farms, at least not for 6 mos out of the year due to snow. We have grocery outlet and raleys, safeway, that's it. I try to pick the least offensive items and grocery outlet often has a lot of organic stuff, it is surprising. I don't do organic milk because it is too hard to find good stuff and it costs twice as much...oh, and we are on a fixed income and food stamps.
even so, food stamps are no accepted at the ONE real health food store in town, don;t think they qualify, not enough animal products sold (irony)
oh, and while foodstamps are supposedly a dept of agriculture supplementray program, they are also not accepted at the farmers market (more irony)
so, here I am, admittedly wanting to NOT engage in the purchase and consumption of trauma-based foods...but also in a food-poor area/situation
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I will admit that in California we are spoiled by the weather and access to lots of farms. It's too bad to hear that foodstamps are not accepted at farmer's markets because signs at all of our markets here say they are worth double which is a good thing. It sounds like you are trying though and that is a great thing.
athena
(4,187 posts)I suggest you do your own research rather than believe what some random person online says. To start, take a look at these pages:
Decoding the Terms: Cage Free, Free Range & Pasture Raised Eggs
Exposing the "Cage-Free" Myth
If you want to reduce animal suffering along with your environmental footprint, switch to a plant-based diet. It's not as difficult as some people on DU would have you believe. My husband and I switched last February and have never looked back.
P.S. If you don't feel you can make the switch overnight, start with plant-based Mondays. Buy some vegan cookbooks and start using them. Mediterranean Vegan Kitchen, Vegan Italiano, and Everyday Vegan are all excellent.
polichick
(37,152 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)...that clearly marks us as a people. Alas.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)...on this particular issue....
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Opps, wrong link (above), instead: http://www.cornucopia.org/organic-egg-scorecard/ which I read about in the context of this RECENT ALERT, http://www.cornucopia.org/food-safety/
villager
(26,001 posts)Then again, I rarely use eggs any more, usually having tofu scrambles with my morning potatoes, and even using it for the "custard" part of seasonal pumpkin pie...
mudstump
(342 posts)of living creatures. After I accidentally watched an undercover video of a slaughterhouse I stopped. I now eat Tofurky products and love them. Had a great tofurky roast with stuffing for Thanksgiving. If you need the texture of meat occasionally as I do...there are more and more great products made from soy that are tasty and good.
Don't support the cruelty....stop buying meat.
athena
(4,187 posts)For me, the turning point was watching "Vegucated".
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)dhill926
(16,370 posts)And Diet for a New America was written how long ago?
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)http://ahappyfarm.com/ - Chicken / Duck - A beautiful 23 minute ride up the Delaware River
We also are have local organic delivery, so we get produce / milk / honey / coffee / pork delivered to the house each Friday. - https://tristate.doortodoororganics.com/about/farmers
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Meat, eggs, cheese, milk, animal proteins of all sorts ... are all detrimental to our health.
I picture the people who think it tastes good in the same way I picture teabaggers: with their hands planted firmly over their ears, eyes closed and chanting "lalalalalalala" so as not to hear the evidence refuting their position.
Pus, stress and artificial hormones, antibiotics ... mmm mmm delish. Eat up!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)without that real cowtitty milk!"
Even on a progressive board it's a deliberate sort of cognitive dissonance. People who rail against cruelty to SOME animals desperately defend cruelty against OTHER animals all in the name of flavor.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Thanks for getting it Codeine.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)The business of cheap meat is a horror show and if we dare mention that, we're accused of preaching or judging people for eating meat.
Consider reading Patterson's "Eternal Treblinka" on this. (And please, no tirades about how insensitive peta is in comparing eating meat to the Holocaust with that campaign; the analogy comes from Isaac Bashevis Singer.)
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)I can't afford to replace my car. I can totally afford to buy beans and produce. So can you.
It's literally putting one's money where one's mouth is....
CFLDem
(2,083 posts)as artificial meat will largely replace traditional meat inside of a generation.