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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:39 AM Dec 2013

I Passed for White and Straight, Even Though I'm Not -- How Looks Hide My Identity

http://www.alternet.org/i-passed-white-and-straight-even-though-im-not-how-looks-hide-my-identity



I first became aware of my passing as a young child confronted with standardized testing. My second grade teacher had walked us through where to write our names in capital letters and what bubbles to fill in for our sex, our birth date and ethnicity. But in the days before “biracial” or “multiracial” or “choose two or more of the following,” I was confronted with rigid boxes of “white” or “black” – a space that my white father and black-Italian mother had navigated for some time.

But even at 8 years old, I knew I could mark “white” on the form without a teacher’s assistant telling me to do the form over with my No. 2 pencil. I could sometimes be “exotic” on the playground to the grown-ups who watched us for skinned knees and bad words. But with hair that had yet to curl and a white-sounding last name, I was at first glance – and many after – a dark-haired white girl with a white father who collected her after school.

That girl came with me to junior high and even high school. Even as my hair became wiry with puberty, the frizziness soon a universal topic in the girls’ bathroom as girls began their marriages to the straight iron, I became aware that I read no differently. Another curly-haired white girl who wished that her hair was straight.

School records could be curiously inconsistent, occasionally marking me as “white” and sometimes “other,” my recorded ethnicity changing year to year as I would pass and then suddenly not.
72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I Passed for White and Straight, Even Though I'm Not -- How Looks Hide My Identity (Original Post) xchrom Dec 2013 OP
I dream for the day madokie Dec 2013 #1
Having been searching for employment lately MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #7
But I would hope that you realize ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #35
Yeah and employers would know that too gollygee Dec 2013 #37
Only for EEO tracking purposes ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #41
Don't care, I choose not to identify. MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #46
Why deliberately handicap yourself? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #50
It's not a handicap. MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #51
Yes it is ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #52
Disclosing may give you a better case if there is actual discrimination going on. rucky Dec 2013 #62
Thanks Nitram Dec 2013 #2
The best answer DamnYankeeInHouston Dec 2013 #3
Disagree to an extent JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #5
I think some whites fear that they will be treated poorly alfredo Dec 2013 #6
Shows you where their hearts are at JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #9
Call it fear of karma. alfredo Dec 2013 #19
In the words of Momma 1SBM ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #36
My daughter, a teacher, was asked the other day if she was prejudiced Frustratedlady Dec 2013 #4
NAACP........keep it or kill it ? curious how you respond. NM_Birder Dec 2013 #8
What do you think? JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #10
I think the NAACP needs to go away. NM_Birder Dec 2013 #14
Do you mind me asking JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #16
By "one of you"...... NM_Birder Dec 2013 #27
It does JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #29
That was a disertation ? NM_Birder Dec 2013 #32
Nope JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #33
The "notion of 'inequality'" continues to be more than a notion. M0rpheus Dec 2013 #17
Then you just answered why the little race bubbles NEED to be filled out as mentioned in the OP. NM_Birder Dec 2013 #31
I hope I am misreading this ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #40
I assume nothing. M0rpheus Dec 2013 #44
Magnificent Number23 Dec 2013 #48
You need to read this post gollygee Dec 2013 #20
Because ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #38
"all help to keep the notion of "inequality" alive and well." because inequality is alive and well. seabeyond Dec 2013 #65
Very interesting you didn't mention the NRA. NCTraveler Dec 2013 #70
What bullshit. They exist because inequality is alive and well. It's not a "notion." marmar Dec 2013 #71
Inequality is more than just a "notion." (nt) Heidi Dec 2013 #72
Wow. That's a cryptic response. gollygee Dec 2013 #11
read above. NM_Birder Dec 2013 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Dec 2013 #58
Definitely read the poster's response JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #18
It's an argument that literally makes no sense. As if ignoring racism will somehow make it vanish. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #64
What kind of question is that? curious how you respond. Glassunion Dec 2013 #12
I can't answer that. LWolf Dec 2013 #13
as a subscriber to the Nation and Mother Jones and donor to PFAW hfojvt Dec 2013 #21
Colored people JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #22
my reaction wasn't as nice as your's -- so i refrained. nt xchrom Dec 2013 #23
Hey JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #24
not my normal term hfojvt Dec 2013 #28
You are correct JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #30
That remark takes me back to an episode of ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #42
was he actually robbed hfojvt Dec 2013 #53
I really don't recall ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #63
Lol! JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #60
I suspect ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #34
I didn't actually say it was a raced base decision hfojvt Dec 2013 #54
Maybe it was your sparkling personality, so often on display here for us at DU. nt. Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #45
say what? I am a nice guy, really. hfojvt Dec 2013 #56
So, let me see if I understand you correctly. Glassunion Dec 2013 #47
my personality is not broken hfojvt Dec 2013 #57
Then would you say that the problems was not so much the personality, Glassunion Dec 2013 #66
probably his supervisor had far more hiring authority hfojvt Dec 2013 #67
So a couple of African American men get a job and you don't gollygee Dec 2013 #68
I didn't say anything about the whole hfojvt Dec 2013 #69
"So I declined." Thank God. Number23 Dec 2013 #49
Well I am a patron here hfojvt Dec 2013 #55
When access to opportunity and power is race-neutral, then you might, might haele Dec 2013 #25
+100 JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #26
Well Put! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #43
So three out of four of your grandparents were white? pnwmom Dec 2013 #59
Pretending racism doesn't exist does no one any favors. Even white people, ultimately. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #61
Nicely written and appreciated. I understand completely. kelliekat44 Dec 2013 #39
 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
7. Having been searching for employment lately
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:22 AM
Dec 2013

I was very comforted that the current trends on applications contain "I choose not to self identify" on race questions. In the past this was only sporadically a check-box, now it seems the norm. It give me a little hope that people are finally realizing race isn't a indicator of qualifications. Of course that isn't the same as changing personal racial bias in the interview room, but I am hoping more people are at least getting in the door.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
35. But I would hope that you realize ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:08 PM
Dec 2013

the vast majority of those opting out of that question are racial/ethnic minorities, as most white folks understand that the checking "white/Caucasian" box, is not a negative.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
37. Yeah and employers would know that too
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:14 PM
Dec 2013

Can employers even ask that question when someone is applying for a job?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
41. Only for EEO tracking purposes ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:29 PM
Dec 2013

and most store the information apart from the application, so (and in the hope) that the decision-making does not have access to the information.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
46. Don't care, I choose not to identify.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:13 PM
Dec 2013

So most white folks can do as they wish, I choose to be anonymous until it isn't

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
50. Why deliberately handicap yourself? ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:17 PM
Dec 2013

I guess that's a benefit of NOT having to constantly think about how our actions set up avoidable obstacles.

rucky

(35,211 posts)
62. Disclosing may give you a better case if there is actual discrimination going on.
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 07:51 AM
Dec 2013

It could also improve the chances of getting an interview for companies under EEOC scrutiny, or just knowing there needs to be more diversity in their culture.

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
5. Disagree to an extent
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:33 AM
Dec 2013

I'm forty- bi-racial - and had blonde hair as a kid . . . that fair. Like many bi-racial kids- we get a bit darker and curlier as we get older.

There are very concrete experiences that only a woman with my 'family dynamic' can HAVE experienced.

This woman's experience was probably very much like my paternal grandmother's experience - but she went out and found the darkest black man she could find to marry in 22. Her reasoning to do that was because of how she experienced the world in the deep South as a child in the turn of the last century.

My experiences born abroad, spending my formative years in the military culture in a foreign land - and my 'culture shock' even coming back to the North East in the late 1970's as a 4 (almost five) year old - are imprinted in me.


Yes - in an ideal world - it SHOULD be Human Race.

But in America - I don't have that luxury. I simply don't. And it's not my fault - or the fault of any minority Americans. The Dominant Culture must ALL change - and then we can. Until then - we can't have our voices or experiences down played. Because our voices speaking up and out - well that's what will make the dominant culture stand up and take notice of the 'card' they placed in the deck.

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
9. Shows you where their hearts are at
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:36 AM
Dec 2013

You know?

It's like the person who says: You better not cheat me!

The person who is fearful . . . does what they accuse or anticipate others of doing.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
36. In the words of Momma 1SBM ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:13 PM
Dec 2013

"One accuses another (without supporting facts) of what they can conceive themselves of doing."

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
4. My daughter, a teacher, was asked the other day if she was prejudiced
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:18 AM
Dec 2013

against blacks. I thought she gave an excellent answer.

"You know, I have many students per day, but I would have to stop and think which ones are black. Why do you ask?"

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
10. What do you think?
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:37 AM
Dec 2013

I don't know that the black American community is going to give that up. I still donate every year. SPLC, UNCF, and NACCP. . . every single year.

 

NM_Birder

(1,591 posts)
14. I think the NAACP needs to go away.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:16 PM
Dec 2013

Just like poling data like X% of blacks think.....X% of whites think and X% of Hispanics think.......needs to stop.

The Black Caucus, the NAACP, Hispano Chamber of Commerce and so on........all help to keep the notion of "inequality" alive and well.

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
16. Do you mind me asking
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:35 PM
Dec 2013

Because you stated this -

The Black Caucus, the NAACP, Hispano Chamber of Commerce and so on........all help to keep the notion of "inequality" alive and well.



As a minority (I'm assuming you are one of us) - do you TRULY believe that we (minorities) put those race cards in the deck?

The we are the Powers That Be ANNNND we are the Dominant Cultural force that is most visible and prevalent in America?
 

NM_Birder

(1,591 posts)
27. By "one of you"......
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:19 PM
Dec 2013

Are you asking me to tell you what race I am, and if so what difference does it make ? One parent born in Clayton New Mexico, one parent born in New Iberia Louisiana could be anything huh?. Race will always be a factor, so long as race matters to some people.

Your last sentence hurt my head trying to read it, you were too anxious to put one race above others, .....point proven.

All those silly white people got no culture ? -or- what exactly did you try to say ? When "the white race" is longer the majority population, what do you want to be labeled as ?

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
29. It does
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:29 PM
Dec 2013

My race is well - all over the place.

But I know when dealing with certain people in the dominant culture in America - they want to peg me into a specific one. They have no idea what my mother looks like. They have no idea what my husband looks like. And it wouldn't matter anyways to them - because well - they did the pegging.

That said - I've experienced America in a very specific way which well - colors my world view.

Re Last sentence - It's something my mother has impressed on us (a 67 year old caucasian woman) - and well - it's true.

The Dominant Culture in America is that of white descendents of Europeans. Their ancestors (mine TOO ) put the race card in the deck by policy, beliefs, and behavior. Those policies, beliefs, and behaviors are still in existence today - the minority populations merely react to it. Everyone teaches (I hope) their children to be respectful - yet cautious of the authorities. However, I'm certain my nephews had a stern talking to by their father, my father, their mother, grandmother, etc. etc. about how they specifically must interact with the police.

It's not their fault (my nephews). They didn't do it. They didn't make that police man/woman believe what that police man/woman believes. But they must adjust to that reality in order to survive that person working on behalf of the dominant culture's belief system. Yes I wrote, "survive".

That's just one example - but it's one of many. I certainly hope at DU I don't need to give a full dissertation on the state of race in America. I shouldn't have to that at this site.

 

NM_Birder

(1,591 posts)
32. That was a disertation ?
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:48 PM
Dec 2013

no ...no you shouldn't write one. I got asked, so ....."which one of us are you"

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
33. Nope
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:11 PM
Dec 2013
I don't want to give one either.

And here is my precise c/p statement -

As a minority (I'm assuming you are one of us) - do you TRULY believe that we (minorities) put those race cards in the deck?

The we are the Powers That Be ANNNND we are the Dominant Cultural force that is most visible and prevalent in America?



I never said which one of us are you.

I'm mixed raced - direct product of a black/white marriage that was till death do us part. . . I'm currently married to a man off the plane from Italy.

Perhaps I interpreted what you wrote upthread wong - I'm always interested when I hear/read - Actually it was black folks and their organizations that created the system.

It's such a 180 from what many black Americans have experienced - I.E. I'm personally shocked when I find out I have had that much power and was responsible for the formation of black organizations, HBC's, etc. etc. I mean - I haven't even been on this earth for 40 years - so it alway shocks me when I find out I'm responsible. I didn't know I put the race card in the deck.

That's all.

But I thank you for educating me on that.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
17. The "notion of 'inequality'" continues to be more than a notion.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:36 PM
Dec 2013

Currently, there's no upside to eliminating such groups past making the majority comfortable.

Once being a person of color is no longer stigmatized/considered a determining factor of "failure", then maybe the NAACP can consider it's mission accomplished and fold.

There may come a day when organizations formed as a reaction to inequality are no longer needed, but it ain't today.

 

NM_Birder

(1,591 posts)
31. Then you just answered why the little race bubbles NEED to be filled out as mentioned in the OP.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:31 PM
Dec 2013

Minority status requires assistance in todays America is bullshit, and I hate that, "A person of color" is it too much to just be called "a person".

Let me ask you the same question I asked above. When "the white race" is no longer the majority population, what will everyone else be ?

"Black, and formerly a minority" "Hispanic, formerly known as a minority" ?

You are assuming I'm white aren't you ? be honest.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
40. I hope I am misreading this ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:27 PM
Dec 2013
Minority status requires assistance in todays America is bullshit, and I hate that, "A person of color" is it too much to just be called "a person".


"Minority status" will require assistance so long as folks think that the idea of racism in today's America is bullsh!t.

Let me ask you the same question I asked above. When "the white race" is no longer the majority population, what will everyone else be ?

"Black, and formerly a minority" "Hispanic, formerly known as a minority" ?


You didn't direct the question to me; but I will hazard an answer ...

I will ALWAYS be a Black man, proud of my unique heritage.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
44. I assume nothing.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:53 PM
Dec 2013

Mostly because I don't really care that much, and the internet has taught me that anyone can be behind that keyboard. My answer is the same regardless of your ethnicity.

I've chosen to take people at face value, rather than make assumptions, pending further evidence. As a result, I've made some really good friends/contacts but, I've also been burned badly.

I'd love to just be "A Person". To myself, I am just that. Outside of my self-perception, it's considerably different in the real world. The onus is not on me to change how people perceive me, when I do nothing to engender a negative response past existing. It's not my assumptions that are the problem.

There may come a day when organizations formed as a reaction to inequality are no longer needed, but it ain't today.

The groups are not the problem. They weren't 50 years ago and, they aren't today. The inequality those groups result from is still the problem. When you count all the intersections from there, it's an even bigger one. Would you argue that groups that serve LGBT, or women also be eliminated as obsolete?

Should it come to pass that I'm no longer a minority, then I'll be me (as I always am, to myself). If asked, I'll still Identify as a black man as, that is a part of who I am.
I don't long for a world of varying shades of beige. Homogeneity, is not the answer.
I long for a world where my particular shade of brown provides me with no assumptions on my intelligence, responsibility or, criminality.

When that occurs, I'll call up GWB and ask if he's still using that "Mission Accomplished" sign.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
48. Magnificent
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:54 PM
Dec 2013
I long for a world where my particular shade of brown provides me with no assumptions on my intelligence, responsibility or, criminality.

Oh my God, do I long for the same.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
38. Because ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:15 PM
Dec 2013

when we get rid of the Black Caucus, the NAACP, Hispano Chamber of Commerce and so on........ racism will go away. Right?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
65. "all help to keep the notion of "inequality" alive and well." because inequality is alive and well.
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 10:25 AM
Dec 2013

that is a real .... duh

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
70. Very interesting you didn't mention the NRA.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:38 AM
Dec 2013

You just want to do away with organizations fighting for civil rights and minorities. No mention of the NRA who are fighting against minorities every day. Plenty of other organizations you could have mentioned.

Response to NM_Birder (Reply #15)

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
18. Definitely read the poster's response
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:36 PM
Dec 2013

Very interesting take on who put the race card in the American deck . . .

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
13. I can't answer that.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 11:58 AM
Dec 2013

I'm white. To "keep it or kill it" has to be up to the people of color the NAACP represents, and whether or not they still feel the need for that representation.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
21. as a subscriber to the Nation and Mother Jones and donor to PFAW
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:31 PM
Dec 2013

Apparently my name and address were put on a list. So I was invited by mail to join the NAACP. Since I had recently been beaten out for a job by two black people, both of whom seemed less qualified than I was, it seemed from where I sat that colored people were advancing just fine already.

Maybe it was time for people to advance because of the content of their character instead of the color of their skin. So I declined.

Also got many solicitations for the SPLC. Almost donated to get a biography of Morris Dees, but other online research made me wonder if that organization was a scam. Hard to know what to believe on the internet, but he was reported to be worth $2.9 million in 1979 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1817&dat=19790926&id=7kggAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2p4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6786,5749028
and he gets a salary of over $200,000 a year.

So really did he need a piece of my $13,000 annual income?

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
22. Colored people
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:38 PM
Dec 2013

Uh -

Sorry - just not used to reading or hearing it unless it's from an uneducated person over the age of 80.

I always thought it was funny (thinking back to reruns of all in the family - A.B. used it) -

Like what? My mother has no color? Is that why she's out there baking with baby oil? But my father does - so he wears a hat?

It's not easy being mixed race!

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
30. You are correct
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:30 PM
Dec 2013


We have a history you and me. . . so I'll leave it at that. My best wishes on your journey through this world.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
42. That remark takes me back to an episode of ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:35 PM
Dec 2013
Sanford and Son.

Fred had been robbed and a Black cop and white cop were sent to check out the scene.

The white cop asked Fred: "Was the perp colored?"

And Fred answered, "Yeah ... white."

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
53. was he actually robbed
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 02:49 AM
Dec 2013

or was that the episode where he pretended to be robbed because he had broken his son's collectibles while cleaning them? Because I vaguely remember a re-run I saw a few months ago.

JustAnotherGen

(32,011 posts)
60. Lol!
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 06:47 AM
Dec 2013


Off topic - if you've never seen The Chappelle show - try and catch it in old reruns on the Comedy channel. Paul Mooney - friends with and a writer for Richard Pryor appears on and wrote for Chappelle - he also wrote for Sandford and Son. He had a book come out two years ago - "Black Is The New White" - if I recall correctly - he wrote that episode/line.

ONLY Mooney could make that observation! Same man that said he never "knew" racism (he's in his early 70's now to put a time reference on it) until his family left Louisiana when he was a kid - and moved to Southern California in the 1950's. And he is scathing to Liberal thought and so-called bastions in that book. Just scathing - yet accurate.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
34. I suspect ...
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:51 PM
Dec 2013
Since I had recently been beaten out for a job by two black people, both of whom seemed less qualified than I was, it seemed from where I sat that colored people were advancing just fine already.


your getting picked over had little, if anything, to do with your competition being Black. But I wonder ... what are your thoughts when you lose out to a couple of, seemingly, lesser qualified white male candidates?

See the stinkin' in your thinkin'?

Here let me spell it out for you ... seemingly lesser qualified Black candidate picked = race-based decision; seemingly lesser qualified white male candidate picked = Crickets? ... a bad break? ... just the general unfairness of life? ... maybe, they had something about them you seemingly could not/did not see?

... And please don't tell me you have never lost a job opportunity to a seemingly lesser qualified white male!

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
54. I didn't actually say it was a raced base decision
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 03:05 AM
Dec 2013

I don't believe it was. 1) both of those guys looked good on paper, ten years experience and such 2) both of them were clearly bigger and stronger than me.

It was only when I worked side by side with them, that they seemed far less qualified.

The point was, whether the decision was race based or not (and I am conceding that it was not) those black men WERE advancing while I, myself, remained stuck working a part-time job.

But yes, this did represent a fairly unique event in my work life, where I got to see and work with the person who got the job instead of me. Now, I could point to the Kraft plant where I worked many years as a temp while a couple other white guys got hired (and fired), but a) it was not nearly so direct. Kraft would generally hire five or six at a time, so was there really ONE who beat me out? and b) other than Dennis, I did not really work directly with any of the others, and even Dennis was working in other areas that I was not.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
47. So, let me see if I understand you correctly.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:34 PM
Dec 2013
"as a subscriber to the Nation and Mother Jones and donor to PFAW"

- I'm glad you included your "I'm not racist resume"

"Since I had recently been beaten out for a job by two black people, both of whom seemed less qualified than I was, it seemed from where I sat that colored people were advancing just fine already."

- But then you make a comment that could be taken as racist. But thankfully you supplied your credentials.

So, two black men "seemed" less qualified than you. How exactly did you measure their qualifications? Funny thing about jobs, is that they are not all just about qualifications. As a person going through the hiring process right now, I think of many things when choosing a candidate. Only one of which is their qualifications. The rest range from, how well do I get along with them in the interview, are they taking me seriously, what is their job history, how well would they get along with the other folks on my team, etc... I've recently turned down an experienced, skilled person because of their attitude and how we interacted during the interview. I'm considering another candidate, who does have less experience and skills, however, due to their willingness to learn, and how I feel that this individual would be a positive addition to my team, I am considering them for the position. I can teach you skills, I can send you to school, I can help you get experience, I can't fix your personality.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
57. my personality is not broken
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 03:30 AM
Dec 2013

thank you very much.

I judged their qualifications by working beside them. Then too, there was the fact that both of them eventually got fired and I finally got the job.

I was already on the job as a part-timer, trying for a full time job.

I did finally realize though that my supervisor always went to war against whoever had that full time job. He saw them as a threat.

What a team.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
66. Then would you say that the problems was not so much the personality,
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 10:46 AM
Dec 2013

skills, or race of the other two, and yourself. But more of an issue with the hiring supervisor?

I have worked for similar managers that went to "war" with their direct reports. The dude would seemingly hire folks that he would have the easiest time intimidating and controlling.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
67. probably his supervisor had far more hiring authority
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 02:35 PM
Dec 2013

but I never said the hiring was based on race. My point was that black men were already advancing while I was being left behind, so I had no interest in helping to support a National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

That's kind of the trouble when you live in a society that does not have enough good jobs, enough full time jobs for everybody. When some people advance that means other people get left behind.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
68. So a couple of African American men get a job and you don't
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 02:39 PM
Dec 2013

And that leads you to believe that as a whole, African American are doing better than white people and no longer need the NAACP?

It almost sounds like you wouldn't believe race didn't play a part unless no people of color at all got hired before you. That the only way it could be race neutral is if you got hired first.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
69. I didn't say anything about the whole
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 03:47 PM
Dec 2013

and I didn't say that race played a part. I have specifically said several times that it did not.

My point was that here I was a 41 year old white guy with two college degrees working as a part-time janitor and apparently unable to even advance to the awesome status of full time janitor.

So why should I help colored people to advance when I, myself, am stuck at the bottom?

It was at that point though, while sweeping the gym and raging about my life, that I decided to give up. To admit that it was over. I was never going to get a good job. I was never going to get married or have a family. I had gone up to the plate and taken my swings, but that was that. Mighty Casey had struck out.

Well, at least I went down swinging.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
49. "So I declined." Thank God.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:57 PM
Dec 2013

I was terrified that you were going to say that you accepted. But I should have known better, right?

haele

(12,692 posts)
25. When access to opportunity and power is race-neutral, then you might, might
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 02:59 PM
Dec 2013

have a reason to bring up that question.

We are currently in the phase where race and prejudice is being discussed and recognized, not that "the problem is fixed". Just because there are more "black people" in power, or who have made a lot of money, does not mean that the promise land has been reached.
There are also more blacks in prison, and blacks are being profiled, stopped, frisked, and suspected in greater numbers than previously - just as they are beginning to step out into the greater public instead of being relegated to red-lined neighborhoods and segregated out of sunset towns and do not have the same perception of social worth that those who have lived within the existing society of those communities receive on a daily basis. The newcomer is "the other", the red-headed stepchild, the bumpkin who is a leach diminishing local resources because they have "a different culture they don't want to change to fit in", or "their families haven't paid their dues like the generations living there before them" or some other such nonsense. While under the law, race relations have gotten better -but socially in some areas, it is getting worse as some people who already have privilege are afraid of losing their own status or money if they are forced "to share".

The classic race problem is still opportunity for advancement or positions. Nobody wants to think they didn't have enough skills and "lost" in a competition for a job or a school slot where there are a large number of applicants, including minority representatives, competing for the same position. So if the minority gets the work, it's assumed that it's gotta be because of "race" or "quotas" - "you're just as (or maybe more) qualified as that other guy, but they got picked because they looked different than you" - instead accepting that it was a weighed business or educational decision that always has a lot of other factors involved than just race or quotas.
In my experience, unless it's a completely blind hire or advancement, when someone in a "majority" racial or gender class is "passed over" for a position and a minority gets the job, that person rarely ever questions their own status or capabilities - or the organization that made the final decision - because the minority sticks out like a sore thumb, no matter how qualified they are. It's gotta be the race (or gender, or religion), because that's the "only difference".

There is still a great prejudice - a pre-judging - based on race, color, and class, both within American society and within the black community itself, as the black middle class is disappearing at a greater rate than the white middle class. The pendulums of reaction and backlash need to be addressed and mitigated before you can say "NAACP - keep it or kill it?"

The NAACP will either evolve or disappear naturally as the issues of race equality, opportunity, and accessibility evolve themselves.

Haele

pnwmom

(109,023 posts)
59. So three out of four of your grandparents were white?
Fri Dec 13, 2013, 06:12 AM
Dec 2013

Since there wasn't a box for "multi racial," it would seem to make sense that you checked "white."

What I never understood was the idea that a "drop of black blood" magically turned a person black.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
39. Nicely written and appreciated. I understand completely.
Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:26 PM
Dec 2013

It breaks some people's heart when they find out I am not Hispanic, Asian, or even Philippine.

I see how differently other members of my family are treated when we are out together.

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