NeoLiberal 3rd Way "Centrist" Economics explained by bvar22

[bvar22]

When the "Free Market" makes a mistake, a Giant Invisible Hand reaches down from the heavens,
[font size=3]and CORRECTS the Market ALL BY ITSELF!!![/font]

There is No NEED for Regulations or Government Intervention to Keep things Fair for consumers or The-Little-Guy.
There is NO NEED to protect Citizens, Consumers, Small Businesses, or The Environment.
There is NO NEED for Humans to get involved AT ALL,
because the Invisible Hand will DO all that for us!

In fact, ANY interference from Governments, Consumer Groups, Organized LABOR, Workers Rights, Humanitarian Groups, and ESPECIALLY those whiny assed Environmentalists only makes things WORSE.
The Invisible Hand Knows ALL, and works BEST all by himself,
so we have to be careful to NOT interfere,
or it will Piss Off the Invisible Hand.

That is WHY our Democratic Party Leadership is working on another BIG "Free Trade" Deal, and have Locked Out all representatives from Labor Rights, Human Rights, Consumer Rights, Citizens, and Environmental Protection Groups so they don't Piss Off the Invisible Hand.

[font size=1]but Shhhhhh! They want to keep it a SECRET so everybody will be surprised,
and the Invisible Hand will be happy!!!
So don't tell anyone.[/font]


[font size=3 color=white]...........[/font][font size=3]Graven Image on the Altar of Free Trade
[/font]




You will know them by their WORKS.

[cantbeserious]

1. The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us

eom

[TheKentuckian]

2. Not quite.

They believe in the regulations that help prop up and provide competitive advantage to existing industry. They believe in regulation to protect patents and destroy fair use.

They strongly favor government acting as the enforcement and protection arm of their squeeze for profit.

They don't believe the "invisible hand" fallacy, they deeply understand that only via government can their corporatist aims be forced on people after the shock and awe of the bullshit snow storm melt away and reality sets in. Even their vaunted market concepts would tell them to kick rocks after the hit parade of monumental failures but the sturdy walls of bureaucratic inertia, big piles of ca$h, and systemic capture push back hard on any and all efforts at correction beyond the most superficial level that can be spun to enough folks to prevent trash fires at the barricades.

I'm left little to no choice but to assume the whole game is intentional and malicious, rather even the credit of being blinded by phony ideology. They are hiding behind that deep disappointment to camouflage the even more despicable truth that they know it is all an extraction scam and are working in concert with the stupid dumb true believers to fuck us over for what they short sightedly see as their own class benefit.

There is never a shortage of excuses to do what is clearly understood to be detrimental before it is done in pursuit of absurdly idealistic aims from self proclaimed "pragmatists" and dogged pursuit of consistently unpopular policies by self labeled "Centrists".

These folks aren't merely wrong or wrongheaded, they are duplicitous and at least (if not actually driving the bus) complicit crooks.

[dougolat]

14. Corporations are chartered by our government, and operate under our laws:

so if they are misbehaving ( and of course they will try to cheat ) WHO'S fault is it?

[truedelphi]

32. Corporations do not operate under OUR

Laws, if by OUR laws you mran laws desired by a majority of the people.

Instead Corporations contribute billions and tens of billions of dollars of money to the One Big Party candidates, who upon election, then do the bidding of said Corporations.

[El_Johns]

38. "the whole game is intentional and malicious": INDEED.

[DhhD]

46. Ted Cruz-the openly admitted, "King", over both Religion and Corporatism, publicly speaks to bring

all the wealth of the World to him and his dominionism freak show agents of cultism love of money and sacrifice of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In my opinion, Ted stood on the Senate floor to glorify the sacrifice of loss of Health (he wants to add to his collection of Heads worn as a bridal).

Covenant of love of money and power, seems to me to be sidewinder Ted with the serpent (the two snakes), intertwined around a Hexagramic Pole, in worship of Luciferion Enlightenment.

[MisterP]

3. the technocrats replaced God with Man, the Austrians, the Market

it's theological wac-a-mole!

[AlbertCat]

7. replaced God with Man,

God ran the economy?

[zeemike]

4. Sounds like a job for the Invisible Hand Man...

You need to be straitened out bvar22

?1372010756

[BelgianMadCow]

5. *wide grin*

at that cartoon. As good a reason to rec the thread as the OP.

[bvar22]

6. Gotta Love the All Powerful Invisible Hand!

The Invisible Hand will save us ALL!
All HAIL the Invisible Hand!

[mbperrin]

8. This is why Adam Smith thought that business people should not even be invited to social events.

His observation in 1776 was that the moment two or more business owners get together, they begin to plan how best to defraud their customers.

I believe it.

[Enthusiast]

9. K&R! How could anyone besides Third Wayers disagree with this? Deserves hundreds of recommendations.

Way to go, bvar22!

[blue14u]

26. Sadly the Turd Wayers

will find a way to argue and disagree with anything

rational and reasonable.. They always do, for fear of loosing

a dime.

[Curmudgeoness]

10. Until that invisible hand reached down and slaps the shit out of them,

I ain't buying it.

It seems odd to me that so many of these "invisible hand" people work so hard to "help" God, by using artificial insemination when God obviously did not want them to have kids, or make sure that Israel succeeds so that the Second Coming can occur, but think that people who are opposed to them should not do anything to help God since he works best by himself. So to all you peons----STFU!

[99Forever]

11. Yep.

Lots of the current administration LOVES getting stroked by The Invisible Hand.

[gulliver]

12. Lacks any reference to Republicans. Attacks Democrats.

I'm actually for a highly progressive economy where the government ensures not only employment but freedom from poverty and healthcare fears. But this OP is against that. By attacking only Democrats it attempts to diminish the power of Democrats. That kind of thinking gave us George W. Bush in 2000. It's abject Naderism.

[bvar22]

13. No.

The Republicans are NOT negotiating the two NEW "Free Trade Deals",
or asking for Fast Track authority to get it passed before anyone notices.
The Obama Administration IS,
and THAT is what this post is about.

Obama selects former Monsanto lobbyist to be his TPP chief agriculture negotiator
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662210

Study: "Trade" Deal Would Mean a Pay Cut for 90% of U.S. Workers
http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2013/09/the-verdict-is-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-a-sweeping-free-trade-deal-under-negotiation-with-11-pacific-rim-coun.html


This is NOT a case where "Republican Obstructionism" is a valid argument.
It is a pity you are so blinded by your partisan rose colored glasses that you can not see the truth.

[ProSense]

16. Well.

"The Republicans are NOT negotiating the two NEW "Free Trade Deals",
or asking for Fast Track authority to get it passed before anyone notices.
The Obama Administration IS,
and THAT is what this post is about."

...if that's what the OP is about, much of it is a misrepresentation. From the OP:

"There is No NEED for Regulations or Government Intervention to Keep things Fair for consumers or The-Little-Guy.
There is NO NEED to protect Citizens, Consumers, Small Businesses, or The Environment."

From the CFPB to Wall Street reform, that simply doesn't apply.

Elizabeth Warren:

<...>

When I worked to set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, I pushed hard for steps that would increase transparency in the marketplace. The crisis began one lousy mortgage at a time, and there is a lot we must do to make sure there are never again so many lousy mortgages .

CFPB made some important steps in the right direction, and I think we’re a lot safer than we were .

There is no question that Dodd-Frank was a strong bill—the strongest in three generations. I didn’t have a chance to vote for it because I wasn’t yet in the Senate, but if I could have, I would have voted for it twice.

Even so, the law is not perfect. And so it’s important to ask: Where are we now, five years after the crisis hit and three years after Dodd-Frank?

<...>

Powerful interests will fight to hang on to every benefit and subsidy they now enjoy. Even after exploiting consumers, larding their books with excessive risk, and making bad bets that brought down the economy and forced taxpayer bailouts, the big Wall Street banks are not chastened .

They have fought to delay and hamstring the implementation of financial reform, and they will continue to fight every inch of the way .

That’s the battlefield. That’s what we’re up against. But David beat Goliath with the establishment of CFPB and, just a few months ago, with the confirmation of Rich Cordray .

David beat Goliath with the passage of Dodd-Frank. We did that together – Americans for Financial Reform, the Roosevelt Institute, and so many of you in this room. I am confident David can beat Goliath on Too Big to Fail. We just have to pick up the slingshot again .

Thank you .

http://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/AFR%20Roosevelt%20Institute%20Speech%202013-11-12.pdf

SEC Will Require Companies To Report CEO-To-Worker Pay Ratios
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023694931

Regulators Finalize Stricter Volcker Rule - Reuters/HuffPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024158305

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau gets busy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023372682

NLRB to Prosecute Wal-Mart For Violating Workers’ Rights (updated)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024053560

[bvar22]

18. Oh Pro... that bit of misdirection is beneath even you.

Still laughing that you would invoke Elizabeth Warren to support the "Free Market" "Free Trade" history of the Obama Administration.

You KNOW she stands with ME,
and opposes the Obama Administrations efforts for MORE "Free Trade".
How did you imagine you would get away with THAT?
LOL.

Warren on Trans-Pacific Partnership: If people knew what was going on, they would stop it
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/19/warren-on-trans-pacific-partnership-if-people-knew-what-was-going-on-they-would-stop-it/

Elizabeth Warren Opposes Obama's Nominee for Trade Representative
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/video-elizabeth-warren-opposes-obamas-nominee-trade-representative

Elizabeth Warren Speaks Out Against The President’s Trans-Pacific “Free Trade” Agreement
As more and more people across the United States find out about the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), we’re beginning to see a growing opposition to not only the President’s latest pet project, but his economy-killing, corporatist trade agenda in general.

Not only are people upset about President Obama and others in control keeping the details of the TPP a secret, but President Obama’s declaration that he’s willing to use fast-track authority have many up in arms, including Senator Elizabeth Warren.

http://economyincrisis.org/content/elizabeth-warren-speaks-out-against-the-presidents-trans-pacific-free-trade-agreement

Elizabeth Warren Free Trade Letter Calls For Trans-Pacific Partnership Transparency

Labor unions, public health advocates and environmental groups have long decried so-called free trade policies for undermining important regulations in the pursuit of corporate profits. The letter signals that Warren's tough stance on bank regulation extends to other major consumer and public interest matters.

What the public does know about the TPP has been learned through leaked documents. According to those documents, the Obama administration is seeking to grant corporations the ability to directly challenge regulations in countries involved in the talks -- a political power that was typically reserved for sovereign nations until the 1990s. Obama opposed such policies as a presidential candidate in 2008. The leaked intellectual property chapter of the deal includes provisions that would increase the costs of life-saving medicines in poor countries.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/13/elizabeth-warren-free-trade-letter_n_3431118.html

Warren has been a constant thorn in the side of the Obama White House on Economic Policy.

Thanks for the entertainment!

[ProSense]

19. Your comment is say anything

"Oh Pro... that bit of misdirection is beneath even you."

I mean, is that supposed to be serious?

"Still laughing that you would invoke Elizabeth Warren to support the 'Free Market' 'Free Trade' history of the Obama Administration."

I did no such thing, but apparently you have no actual response to my real point.

[bvar22]

21. Your comment is pure projection,

..a favorite of conservatives everywhere.

I have stayed ON POINT on the new Free Trade Deals.
YOU have resorted to red herrings, word salads, and diversionary BS.

YOU are the one who brought up Warren.
Why bring up Warren at all?
She SUPPORTS my position.
Not Yours.

[ProSense]

22. Still

"Your comment is pure projection, a favorite of conservatives everywhere.

Pros gotta do what Pros gotta do. "

...no valid response, huh?

I suppose when that happens, the go-to is: I'm more progressive than you, neener neener, and silly innuendo.

Hey, but if pretending to be progressive via misrepresenting stuff makes you happy, knock yourself out.

[bvar22]

24. Help us all out here Pro.

Where do YOU stand with these new "Free Trade" deals?

Do you stand with the 2008 Obama?

OR,
Do you stand with 2013 Obama who no longer believes that representatives of LABOR, Environmental Rights, and Human Rights don't need to be included in the negotiations,
or that the American Public needs to be informed about the content of the new "deals"?

Why don't you tell us where YOU stand,
instead of tap dancing,
throwing out unsubstantiated accusations,
attacking the messenger,
desperately trying to change the subject,
and hoping that nobody at DU is clever enough to see through your diversions.

Ball is in your court,
and this ain't Dodge Ball.

[ProSense]

25. Still,

"Ball is in your court,
and this ain't Dodge Ball."

...attempting to deflect?

My original point (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024177156#post16) was clear.

Now, after your attempt to also misrepresent my point and your snide remarks, you're trying to deflect via more snide remarks and projection?

I suppose you believe that's clever, but it's actually a big FAIL.

[bvar22]

30. Annnndddd.....Pro Doubles Down, and goes with...

..I don't think the members and readers of DU are smart enough to see through my dodges, distractions, diversions, smoke screens, spurious Blue Links, and Attacks on the Messenger.

It is crystal clear to anybody reading this thread that you have no intention of discussing the OP, or offering anything close to a valid, cogent rebuttal of the issues and policies targeted in the OP.

...but even I have to admit that desperately clutching at Elizabeth Warren was BOLD, but not very smart, since she agrees with me.
Anyone reading this thread can easily verify that.
I guess you are again betting that nobody bothers to read your Blue Links.
I give points for BOLD,
but you should know better than to try that BS with me.

Since it is so clear that you have no intention to offer anything close to a valid rebuttal,
I will leave with this:

The GOAL is not to convince anyone of anything

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801


It is to thoroughly hijack, pollute and therefore eliminate public spaces where real discussion and organization can occur. Occupy is disbanded with clubs and pepper spray. Dissent and organization online are disrupted with surveillance and propaganda.

It is no accident that propaganda brigades post new threads on discussion boards far out of proportion to their presence in the community, and that they nearly *always* demand the last word in any interchange.

The goal is to disrupt the important public space for liberal thought, discussion, and organization that these boards offer, and to keep the participants busy instead batting off the corporate lies and talking points.

woo me with science Sun Jul 28, 2013

Its been fun,
and thanks for the kicks,
but it IS Saturday Night,
and some of us have lives.

[ProSense]

31. Really?

"It is crystal clear to anybody reading this thread that you have no intention of discussing the OP, or offering anything close to a valid, cogent rebuttal of the issues and policies targeted in the OP."

Point about the OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024177156#post16

It's "crystal clear" to me that you're hiding behind others and a lot of deflection from that point.

"but even I have to admit that desperately clutching at Elizabeth Warren was BOLD, but not very smart, since she agrees with me."

Elizabeth Warren:

"There is no question that Dodd-Frank was a strong bill—the strongest in three generations."

"I couldn't be more pleased that Rich Cordray will finally get the vote that he deserves. This is a historic day for working families! "

It's good to know that "she agrees" with you.

[Phlem]

35. Sorry you have to deal with stupid shit from nonsense.

Cause it will never change. Some people wear a cross on a chain around their neck and others hang a picture of Obama.



-p

[ProSense]

40. Sorry that some people think facts are "stupid shit from nonsense."

"Cause it will never change. Some people wear a cross on a chain around their neck and others hang a picture of Obama."

Speaking of "stupid shit from nonsense."

I mean, some people seem to think that their insults are gems, when it's just "stupid shit."

[rhett o rick]

36. He asked where you stand like he doesnt know that you stand with Pres Obama.

That makes your life easy.

[ProSense]

41. Are you saying it was as stupid question? n/t

[rhett o rick]

56. No I am not saying that at all. It was a rhetorical question. Everyone knows where you stand.

We cant question our authoritarian leaders. They will take care of us.

Eight more years of Wall Street rule (HRC) will finish off the middle class.

[truedelphi]

33. ProSense, and I consider having to say this beneath even me,

Bvar's post was SATIRICAL. A Parody.

Etc.

Are you one of those people who thinks that based on his usual statements, Stephen Colbert is A Republican?

[rhett o rick]

37. You are slipping. You think you can just throw some links at the wall and maybe some will stick.

Do you support the TPP? If so, explain why and "because Obama does" isnt acceptable.

[ProSense]

42. I can do whatever the hell I want to.

How's that? I don't have to answer stupid questions from people say stuff like: "You are slipping."

[madinmaryland]

47. Do you support the Trans Pacific Partnership? And if so, why.

[pampango]

53. It does have chapters on labor rights and the environment which NAFTA did not have.

And many have wanted a renegotiation of NAFTA for that reason.

How strong and enforceable they are remains to be seen. The forces of 'national sovereignty' that don't want anyone influencing our they treat their workers and pollute their environment will work hard to defeat the TPP if the labor and environment provisions look strong and enforceable.

The only argument for the TPP will be if those provisions are strong. Otherwise, it should be defeated and trade will continue under the rules of the WTO and the FTA's we already have with many of those countries.

[rhett o rick]

54. But of course you can. I wouldnt have it any other way. But I do want to comment on

those here that are indignant about questions about their principles or particular stances on issues. The common response is something like, "I dont have to tell you where I stand on the TPP." Of course they dont, but why not? My guess is that they are waiting to see which way the wind is blowing.

"You are slipping," was meant as a derogatory comment, I only meant this post wasnt up to your usual high standards.

In any case Pro, have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. And I mean it in a good way.

[Egalitarian Thug]

55. The old link-to-a-link-to-a-link-to-an-article-that-says-the-opposite-of-what-she-says-it-says

strategy. After wasting my time in following the nonsense to its conclusion half a dozen times, I found it consistent enough to automatically discard anything she posts, without any worry that I'd miss some real information.

[gulliver]

17. Yes.

And I wasn't talking about Republican obstructionism but your general rant against what amounts to laissez-faire. You know, with the picture of the Wall Street bull. The one that doesn't say anything about Republicans being the party of the following...

When the "Free Market" makes a mistake, a Giant Invisible Hand reaches down from the heavens,
and CORRECTS the Market ALL BY ITSELF!!!

There is No NEED for Regulations or Government Intervention to Keep things Fair for consumers or The-Little-Guy.
There is NO NEED to protect Citizens, Consumers, Small Businesses, or The Environment.
There is NO NEED for Humans to get involved AT ALL,
because the Invisible Hand will DO all that for us!

Moreover, it is just simply preposterous that any deal would be made that would cause a "pay cut for 90% of Workers." Things that are too bad to be true have a way of being untrue. I have no problem believing Obama is watching out for workers.

[Marr]

20. If you're willing to excuse politicians who are pushing for the TPP, you are *not* for a

"highly progressive economy". You may think it's a nice idea, but it is clearly not a priority.

[reACTIONary]

48. +10 - I'm for a highly progressive FAIR / FREE market. The US is dependant...

...on world trade and better off for it. We must be engaged in the world and use our strengths to our advantage in it... and to the mutual advantage of our trading partners.

[Jefferson23]

15. May the Giant Invisible Hand, always be with you.

K&R

[n2doc]

23. Not exactly

Government should serve the almighty corporation.

Government's purpose is to increase private corporation profits, even if Government has to borrow money to do so.

Government should make regulations that support monopolies and ensure cash flows forever

Police and military are there to ensure corporate profits and to expand profit areas, including eliminating competitors.

IN RETURN, CORPORATIONS AGREE TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS TO ENSURE THE CONTINUED ELECTION OF COMPLIANT POLITICIANS.


THERE IS NO INVISIBLE HAND.

[bvar22]

28. Sorry, Virginia.

There is no such thing as "Free Trade".
There is no such thing as "Free Markets".
There is no giant Invisible Hand that comes down from heaven and protects Consumers,
Citizens,
American Workers,
and the Environment.

Those are all lies made up by the RICH
and sold to Gullible Americans by smooth talking politicians,
so that "they" could get More Money.

Ross was Right

Ross was right about jobs returning to America,
[font size=3]AFTER wages and benefits had fallen to 3rd World levels.[/font]


Yes.
Ross was right,
but Bill was smoooooth.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. It is truly a giant hand job to create an economy such as ours!

Marvelous explanation, my Third-Way brother!

Regards,

TWM

[idwiyo]

29. K&R

[djean111]

34. Damn. I just realized we will be subjected to a LOT of BS about how GREAT the TPP is.

Maybe the TPP is being done in secret and Obama is trying to rush it through before 2014 elections. Because we are expected to fuss a bit, and then go back to our regularly scheduled Progressive-bashing.

[Doctor_J]

44. Just like how the propaganda for Heritage Care flooded DU

and continues to actually. The far right has taken over DU under the guise of "I support the president, and if you don't you're a racist".

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

39. Kick.

[Doctor_J]

43. K/R. I already KNOW the Repukes want to screw and eventually kill me. It kills me that the

Turd Way Dems do too. My party is supposed to protect me from the Repukes. But the president has shown himself to be a Republican, and a liar to boot. He and the rest of the DINOs will get their wish next year when the Repukes win the Senate, so they can enact their far right agenda with cover.

[L0oniX]

45. So then ...there never was a need to bail out Wallstreet. Let free market forces take care of it.

[grahamhgreen]

49. Oh, it's a hand! I thought it was an invisible FINGER!

[reACTIONary]

50. Nothing to justify the hype, positive or negative....

The big talk about TPP isn’t that silly. But my starting point for things like this is that most conventional barriers to trade — tariffs, import quotas, and so on — are already quite low, so that it’s hard to get big effects out of lowering them still further....

OK, I don’t want to be too dismissive. But so far, I haven’t seen anything to justify the hype, positive or negative.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/12/tpp/

[Laelth]

51. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t

-Laelth

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. It's the Democratic brand of Trickle Down.

[woo me with science]

57. K&R