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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Rude Pundit: This Fuckin' Pope
The nice thing about being an atheist is that you can say things like "Your god blows beagles" and not worry about lightning strikes frying you or earthquakes swallowing you up. Sure, sure, you gotta know your audience and maybe not say it to certain people's faces because they are delusional enough to think a magical sky wizard has commanded them to kill anyone who suggests that he blows any kind of dog. Another thing about atheism is it means you don't really have to give a shit what some high muckety-muck in a tall hat or turban tells you about how to live your life.
But the Rude Pundit's not an idiot and he's not so narrow-minded as to dismiss the words of leaders of different faiths, especially when those words can have an enormous impact on the genuine sheep who make up the flock. Let's put it this way: if just a word or two from a Zombie King could make all the zombies in the zombie apocalypse stop eating people and instead start organic gardens and go vegan, that would be a net positive. Sure, the world is still overrun with rotting zombies, but at least they're not trying to gnaw on your guts.
So, yeah, the Rude Pundit's finding himself more and more jazzed by Pope Francis the more he reads the things this fuckin' guy says. Like check out this interview he did with the Italian newspaper from Turin, La Stampa, last week. It's got the usual shit you expect from a, you know, Pope. God's love, prayer, blah-blah-blah.
But Francis is willing to get in the trenches and duke it out on issues of economics and public policy, with one important difference from, say, John Paul II, which we'll get to in a minute. Here's Francis on hunger in the world: "If we work with humanitarian organisations and are able to agree all together not to waste food, sending it instead to those who need it, we could do so much to help solve the problem of hunger in the world."
On anus-lickers like Rush Limbaugh who call him "Marxist," Francis says, "The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I dont feel offended."
On the uproar over his attack on trickle-down economics: "There is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church. I wasnt speaking from a technical point of view, what I was trying to do was to give a picture of what is going on. The only specific quote I used was the one regarding the 'trickle-down theories' which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and social inclusiveness in the world. The promise was that when the glass was full, it would overflow, benefiting the poor. But what happens instead, is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger. Nothing ever comes out for the poor." (That's pretty much one of the most succinct, apt descriptions of the failure of American capitalism you're gonna read.)
On expanding the faith: "We must try to facilitate peoples faith, rather than control it. Last year in Argentina I condemned the attitude of some priests who did not baptise the children of unmarried mothers. This is a sick mentality." This led to a pretty amazing statement: "The exclusion of divorced people who contract a second marriage from communion is not a sanction. It is important to remember this." Conservative Catholic priests in the United States must have felt a kick in the taint. Francis says that he and the bishops will be dealing with questions of marriage and divorce in February.
On the relationship between the church and the political world: "Politics is noble; it is one of the highest forms of charity, as Paul VI used to say. We sully it when we mix it with business. The relationship between the Church and political power can also be corrupted if common good is not the only converging point."
Let's be clear here. Francis hasn't changed anything in any official sense yet. The Catholic Church still believes what it has believed about women, about abortion and contraception, about same sex marriage. And February's Synod might not change any of it. But here's the difference: while Francis did mention concern about "unborn children" in his Exhortation last month, it was in a larger context about the ravages of economic disparity. He wrote, " I)t is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?" Within the context of Catholicism, that's pretty much the equivalent of selling all your possessions and joining the Peace Corps.
Compare that to John Paul II, who was all about condemning people for abortion, contraception, euthanasia, cloning, and more.
There's the difference. It's emphasis. You may be anti-choice, but if you see the problem as poverty and the need for more support and compassion for women, then we have something to talk about. But if you're preaching "genocide" and other JPII bullshit, then you can go fuck yourself under your robe. And if you actually wanna go after the moneychangers and the rich? Dude, we have a lot to talk about.
Yeah, the Rude Pundit's still got the problems with Catholicism that he's always had. But Francis has fucked with Catholicism's priorities in a way that hasn't been seen in generations. And if, as expected, he changes doctrine in February, well, if someone tells over a billion zombies to start planting seeds, it could be quite a garden that is reaped.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Francis seems to apply thought and logic to the doctrine of the church, which puts it in a really good position to improve the world. Isn't that what religion SHOULD be for?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)K&R
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)it's really our (and the rude pundit's) progressiveness that matters here. We aren't going to agree with the Catholic church on much of anything, but that doesn't mean we make the perfect the enemy of the good. Progress is progress; even small steps forward are steps forward. I'm for it. And if such steps can happen on a mass scale, then whoa nelly, I'm really for it!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I would love to think that people would toss aside fairy tales- but if they can just start living up to their ideals, well, that is progress.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)...But what happens instead, is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger. Nothing ever comes out for the poor."
Wow! Dead on, and those are the Pope's words, not the Rude One's...!
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Within the context of Catholicism, that's pretty much the equivalent of selling all your possessions and joining the Peace Corps.
That's the issue right there I suspect - to many Catholicism is such a poisonous organization that it should be in the dustbin of history as soon as possible.
Bryant
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)But best not to dwell on it.
Bryant
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)it is important to point out--or at least fervently imagine-- how horrible everyone treats poor Catholics
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Did you read Demo_Chris's comments a little bit lower down?
Bryant
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Catholicism's little-- ummm, issue -- around pedophilia. How dare he!
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)calimary
(81,238 posts)LOVE this part:
On the uproar over his attack on trickle-down economics: "There is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church. I wasnt speaking from a technical point of view, what I was trying to do was to give a picture of what is going on. The only specific quote I used was the one regarding the 'trickle-down theories' which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and social inclusiveness in the world. The promise was that when the glass was full, it would overflow, benefiting the poor. But what happens instead, is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger. Nothing ever comes out for the poor." (That's pretty much one of the most succinct, apt descriptions of the failure of American capitalism you're gonna read.)
LOVE this! That, singlehandedly, made me a HUGE fan of this Pope.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Speaking of such, has the rude one taken a jab at the other religion where they actually have done this to those who poke fun at their turbaned one? Maybe he could take some rude words to the ones who really do behead people and stone women and gays.
TBF
(32,057 posts)(1) I'd like a good and detailed explanation as to why Marxist theory is wrong.
(2) Are we still keeping women out of leadership roles in the church?
(3) Where are we on reparations for all the riches stolen through the years?
(4) Explain in detail what has been done to remove pedophiles from leadership roles in the church.
Until I can get satisfactory answers the jury on the new pope is still out ...
one Pope making nice doesn't impress me much.
rivegauche
(601 posts)Other faiths do, so the more progressive Xtians can leave if they want. But yeah, it would be great if Francis did somethng really meaningful to address the pedophilia crisis. He said that about Marxism because Marx famously said "religion is the opiate of the people".
Otherwise I agree with Rude Pundit, I'm a contented atheist but I like this guy Francis. The face of that faith has needed to be kinder and more CHRISTIAN for a long time.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)One of the things Marx definitely got right is that religion pacifies suffering poor people by promising them paradise in the afterlife (which convieniently can't be verified). Christianity is unambiguous on this.
Now let's just say for the sake of argument that you lived back in the stone age you wanted to create something to control the weak minded, keep them from rioting, and encourage them to march to their death in times of war or aggression, you'd be hard pressed to come up with something better than organized religion. The truly brilliant part about it is that it costs the upper classes absolutely nothing as all costs for administration are borne by the proles and all rewards are in the form of an IOU that you never have to pay.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...of the zombie horde metaphors.
(He's impressed in a purely relative sense)
TBF
(32,057 posts)I'm into reality. In my reality the church has some issues to address. Marxism is the least of it but I'd be happy to discuss with him how it would be preferable to capitalism.
Baitball Blogger
(46,704 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)But then, I think sheltering child rapists is a big deal and more important than making vague anti-poverty statements while wiping your ass with gold embroidered sparrow tails.
Gary 50
(381 posts)But I have good news for you. He gave up wiping his ass with gold embroidered sparrow tails and uses toilet paper like everyone else. Also, please point out an instance where this pope sheltered a child rapist. Don't point out where the Catholic church did that, point out where Pope Francis did it. I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic. I think this pope is the embodiment of Christ's teachings and it's been 2000 years coming. Hallelujah, praise the Lord (whether he exists or not).
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Tens of thousands of child rapists, literally tens of thousands and that's from the United States alone, and this evil fuck is concealing what the church knows and providing them with sanctuary and food and shelter and the chance to continue their mass raping adventures.
So really there is only one thing I want to hear from this monster: the names and all of the information about every single one of these rapists. Who, what, where, the names of everyone who knew and didn't go to the police, all of it.
Gary 50
(381 posts)It's a real stretch claiming he is actively sheltering child rapists. I seriously doubt he has spent two seconds of his life covering up or protecting any child rapist. It's just not the way he rolls. Calling him an evil fuck is more indicative of your mindset than his. I of course agree that raping children is an abomination and the churches past behavior of protecting the rapists is one of many abominations committed by the church but I place no blame on this pope for that. He is the best hope for making the church behave as Christ would have liked. However he is only the head of a giant bureaucracy so don't expect miracles. Jesus preached forgiveness. Try it. The secret is forgiving helps the forgiver. Keeping white hot hatred alive long term will kill you. Peace.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)But no, it is not a stretch to claim that the organization of which he is the head is ACTIVELY sheltering and assisting child rapists. It's not a stretch because it is 100% accurate. They have and are knowing sheltering tens of thousands of child rapists, and putting them in positions of authority where they can continue their crimes.
That's what they have always done, and it is what they continue to do today. And again, not a few bad apples, but tens of thousands of these monsters.
Jesus might preach forgiveness, not that I believe in that nonsense, but if so I suspect he would insist on justice first. Justice, as in the men who are responsible for the wholesale rape and torture and mutilation of hundreds-of-thousands of children be brought to justice, along with EVERYONE who knew about it and did nothing.
Once the Catholic church does that they can begin to talk to me about morality or whatever else they like, but until then they are the worst sort of filth. They are child RAPISTS, and there really is nothing lower than that.
I'm liking this Pope more and more.
The CCC
(463 posts)Blaming the religious Zombies for all the world ills is as useful as blaming the atheistic Zombies for the 20th Century. Pot meet kettle, and vice versa.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth