Remember how folks blasted the Obama DOJ for failing to prosecute Wall Street?

[Cali_Democrat]

Does this count?

U.S. preparing civil charges against Citigroup, Merrill Lynch: sources

(Reuters) - The Justice Department is preparing to file civil fraud charges against Citigroup Inc and Bank of America's Merrill Lynch unit over their sale of flawed mortgage securities ahead of the financial crisis, according to people familiar with the probes.

Civil investigators have compiled evidence that allegedly shows that investors lost tens of billions of dollars after purchasing securities Citigroup had marketed as safe even though the bank had reason to believe otherwise, one person said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/17/us-usa-doj-banks-idUSBRE9BG1DG20131217

What about this?

Justice Department opens investigation into JP Morgan Chase manipulation of energy markets

(Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase & Co is being investigated by the U.S. Department of Justice for possible manipulation of energy markets following the company's settlement of civil allegations last month with a separate federal energy agency, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday, citing people familiar with the case.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/jpmorgan-chase-energy_n_3781836.html

And this....

JP Morgan Chase (the nation's largest bank) is being investigated by the DOJ over mortgages

JPMorgan Chase said Wednesday it's under federal criminal investigation over its sale of mortgage securities, potentially making the biggest U.S. bank by assets the first large financial institution to face criminal sanctions over securitization practices that contributed to the 2008 financial crisis.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/jpmorgan-doj-investigation_n_3721741.html

Oh...this too....

Bank Of America Goes To Trial Over Mortgage Fraud Charges

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bank of America Corp heads to trial this week over allegations its Countrywide unit approved deficient home loans in a process called "Hustle," defrauding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the U.S. government enterprises that underwrite mortgages.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/bank-of-america-mortgage-fraud-charges_n_3981355.html?utm_hp_ref=business

Sugar on top (from Treasury Dept):

JPMorgan blocked probe in Madoff case: government official

The U.S. Treasury Department's Office of the Inspector General was examining whether JPMorgan interfered with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency's attempts to probe the bank's relationship with Madoff, Rich Delmar, counsel to the inspector general, said in an email to Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-jpm-treasury-probe-idUSBRE9BF1F220131216

For good measure....

Bank of America loses Justice Department civil fraud suit

NEW YORK -- Bank of America has lost a major civil fraud case brought by the Justice Department, a major victory for the federal government as it continues to pursue cases stemming from the financial crisis.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/23/business/la-fi-mo--bank-of-america-loses-justice-department-civil-fraud-suit-20131023

More....

Wells Fargo fails to end U.S. mortgage fraud lawsuit

(Reuters) - A federal judge has rejected Wells Fargo & Co's bid to dismiss a U.S. government lawsuit accusing the nation's largest mortgage lender of fraud, a victory for federal investigators pursuing cases tied to the recent housing and financial crises.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/24/us-wellsfargo-lawsuit-mortgage-fraud-idUSBRE98N0WT20130924

[zappaman]

1. Nope!

And if Warren doesn't run, I won't vote and blah blah fucking blah.
IMPEACH!!!!!!!

[JaneyVee]

30. I can't stop watching.

[Orrex]

45. Those "Thanks Obama" gifs are my second favorite gif-type evah!

Crack me up every time!

[grahamhgreen]

52. Really? You just have to jump there first out of the shute, lol. Banksters Need Jail Time, agreed?

[zappaman]

58. BNJT! n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

132. Actually I disagree ...

what those convicted in these matters need is to paraphrase Eddie Murphy in Trading Places ... "the best way to get back at a rich man is to make him a poor man."

Putting banksters in prison, might make some feel better; but it wouldn't curb/deter the behavior of others ... taking their (and their immediate family's) wealth, barring them from the industry and strapping them with enough restitution fines, so as to grab future earnings, would ... since they are in it for the money.

[Ghost Dog]

159. Yes indeed. That would be very just.

People should be demanding this. At the international level.

[freebrew]

165. +1000

A nation is not the land occupied by its citizens; a nation is the citizen that occupies that land.

[PowerToThePeople]

167. REC. n/t

[stevenleser]

106. From the incomperable Jenna Marbles

[Grateful for Hope]

109. LOL!

Perfect!

[sabrina 1]

113. When are they going to jail?? They are being SUED for FRAUD?? Good thing they are not carpenters or

teachers, they would have been in jail long ago if they were guilty of fraud.

This is like the settlement they got away with to pay back the people whose homes they took illegally. My friend was one of the. She got a check for $800.00. She didn't cash it. Then they sent her a check for $3,000.00. I guess they are afraid she is going to sue them, they are correct. She hasn't cashed that either.

Too bad the defrauded people didn't get the same deal the Wall St Criminals got, or AT LEAST the value of their homes that were stolen and a little compensation for all the expenses they incurred as a result of that theft.

And people were cheering THAT agreement also, except for the defrauded homeowners who are still without their homes and insulting demand that they take the pittance they were sent in exchange for their homes.

Nothing to cheer about until we see some criminal charges.

But as Obama said, though how he would know this without an investigation is a mystery, 'the economic collapse was not caused by criminal activities, immoral yes, but criminal no'. I prefer for juries to draw these conclusions.

[1StrongBlackMan]

133. When did your friend lose her home ...

perhaps she could swear out a criminal complaint against the bank and its officers?

[sabrina 1]

135. She is suing Wells Fargo which is why she has not cashed their insulting check. I just read that

many others have not cashed theirs either. She lost her home in 2009 on Veteran's day. Her husband was a Vet so it was not a pleasant thing to receive it on that particular day.

WF refused to speak to her, and refused to provide information she requested, and the Law Mill that worked for them made fun of the people they were foreclosing on at their Halloween party that year. Eventually that Law Firm was put out of business, and their 'Halloween 'joke' mocking the homeless they created made it to the NY Times. They too had refused to return her calls. I imagine they are being sued by thousands of people also.

[1StrongBlackMan]

136. I guess my point is ...

isn't she doing exactly what the DoJ is being criticized for, pursuing a civil rather than criminal complaint?

[sabrina 1]

137. She reported them to the NY State Attorneys Office, Schneiderman. Where else do you report crimes of

fraud? Schneiderman was very interested and has been trying to prosecute these people. He was the ONLY Gov who held out on the agreement being pushed by the WH until he got assurances that taking those checks would not prevent people from taking civil action.

So yes, she did report them, criminally, and she is suing to try to get back what they stole from her. I guess you don't understand the financial stress placed on a widow with not much income when their home is taken from them. You seemed more interested in defending the governments lack of action on behalf of those who were cheated, than in the tragedies that resulted from the criminal actions of these Big Banks. That's too bad. My focus is on the poor people who lost everything. Politicians are fine financially and don't really need me to defend them or to feel sorry for them. I try to stay focused on the issues that affect ordinary people.

[1StrongBlackMan]

139. I asked a question ...

you are making all kinds a leaps as to my motives/intentions.

BTW ... I spent a life-time (10+ years) prosecuting just this kind of stuff. So, Yes. I understand the stress ...

[arthritisR_US]

149. I understand Sabrina's ire, the impression I got

from what you said was that civil is fine and anything else was pittance. Her friend and thousands others have been robbed and suffered so and the perpetrators still reside in their ivory towers drinking their Merlot. Working in the legal profession, does this not disgust you or anger you?

[1StrongBlackMan]

153. Ahhh ...

Internet Rule #17: "Any statement, if unclear (or not), is to be interpreted in a manner to raise one's ire."

Yes ... it bothers me that justice is not being served, for the victims and the perpetrators.

[treestar]

118. haha

[Cali_Democrat]

119. Fucking Obama

[malaise]

2. Too many folks like fast food

when this was long slow cooking.

There will be justice.

[KittyWampus]

10. it's sort of a sick Catch 22- Feds bring bankers w/deep pockets to trial and it's hard to win

And should our Govt. lose, it ends up essentially making things worse.

[valerief]

3. And Goldman Sachs will end up with everyone's money. nt

[shraby]

4. People need to understand it takes time to build a case against these kinds of crimes. But when

the case is built, it will damn well do what it intends to do. Punish the perps.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine.

[winter is coming]

7. At the rate they're proceeding, the statue of limitations will expire.

Oops.

[Hotler]

59. "The wheels of justice grind slowly." On purpose and not this time.

They didn't need this much time IMO. The Wall St. crimes/fraud was right in front of a lot of people. Stories, books and movies have been made about the financial collapse that went down. Those fuckers on Wall St. knew within days they had fucked-up and were screwed
They sent in the cleaner from Goldman Sach's. Paulson got down on his knees in front of Pelosi and begged for a pass and a bailout or the whole world was going down.
Within the first 30 days of the Obama administration there should have been a shit-pot full of people in jail waiting to make bail and trial before a judge. Dick Cheney and Shrub and crew should have been arrested at the first inauguration for war crimes and Wall St. right after.
If anything comes of these cases it will all be Civil and not Criminal and what ever the penalty it will be small potatoes.
Those fuckers on Wall St. should have been treated like drug dealers. Their doors kicked open at 2:00 AM by Swat and they and their families hauled out in the streets and everything they owned confiscated.
I need to stop now, Thank you for letting me vent.

[treestar]

120. Now now now now

I've been told over and over how EASY it is and how clearly obvious the evidence is! We don't need no damn lawyers on this! Cake walk. In the park! Same for Bush and Cheney!

[winter is coming]

5. After five years, how many people have gone to jail? How many criminal charges have been made? n/t

[truedelphi]

9. Well stated questions.

And your questions should be followed by the question, "Versus how many people in the Big Banking Industry were appointed by Obama to continue the transfer of wealth from the middle and lower-incomed to the One Percent?"

[2naSalit]

34. and followed by

How many families and individuals' lives have been ruined by the scandalous operations of these banksters... many of whom are living on the streets and in shelters? And when are they going to give the money back and pay restitution to these people whose lives they've destroyed?

[certainot]

49. not to mention all those republicans he put in congress! thanks obama! he is clearly a greedy 1%er

trying to destroy the middle class and make us all poor so the billionaires will have more slaves to choose from. that's so clear.

[truedelphi]

57. Eighty percent of what any President accomplishes has to do with appointments.

No republicans I know of twisted his arm to make him appoint criminal Tim Geithner head up Treasury, or to re-appoint Ben Bernanke.

[certainot]

64. see my comment below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4197146

our politicians are only as strong as their support and the 'left' has completely ignored the right's best weapon the last 25 years.

it is unrealistic to expect much until the left starts taking rw radio seriously. until then the 'left' collectively cannot say it got or is getting its reps' backs.

the right's power and ability to force compromise is directly proportional to the left's ignore-ance of RW radio.

[certainot]

66. PS that includes the ability to get appointments past the republicans

all appointments, not just the ones that have to be approved (like the supremes, eliz warren, van jones, etc), are effected by the 1200 radio stations screaming outrage all day to 50 mil people a week.

at what point does it become impossible to get anything done, fighting those fights? that's been one of RW radios major effects. and in geithner's case the pres needed someone who new how the game worked.....

[truedelphi]

141. there were at least two women who knew as much as Geithner -

One being Liz Warren, the other whose name I can't remember. The latter was ousted from any role she may have played in seeing to it that regulations be put in place.

There were probably at least a dozen men who could have handled Treasury. And some of those men had helped during the times of the S & L Crisis, when the actions that were taken restored the economy without rewarding those players who had crashed the S & L's. Please Note: During S & L crisis, we didn't rob Main Street to provide for the criminals in financial institutions!

On account of Obama's complicity in allowing the crooks that ruled on Wall Street from early Nineties to the collapse in September 2008 to be recipients of his appointments, we now are headed for another collapse - without ever having a Middle Class recovery. The only question remaining is whether this collapse will occur next week, next year of six or seven years from now.

[davidpdx]

152. Remember though who signed the repeal of Glass/Steagal

It sure as hell wasn't Obama. That's the point and time things started to go downhill. It was a ticking time bomb. Clinton is one of those that fucked us. I supported him and most of his policies, but that was a huge mistake.

The problem is we have to get Glass/Steagal put back into law and break up the large companies to prevent another collapse.

[truedelphi]

158. That is a pretty weak defense of Obama. We would have GLASS STEAGAL put

Back in place, if Obama had appointed, say, William Black, or Brooksley Born (The woman whose name I couldn't remember yesterday.)

Instead he appointed arch criminal Geithner. In doing that, any hope of having Glaass Steagal resurrected was nil.

I think Obama pretty much promised Wall Street EVERYTHING the moment after he was elected. We know on account of the Nov 2008 Sixty Minutes Interview with the President Elect, that he fully approved of Paulson. Told me just about everything I needed to know.

[fbc]

42. +1

the correct answer to the question in the original post is "Nope!"

and the correct responses to these questions is "exactly!"

[Ghost Dog]

160. Here's the latest list from our Stock Market Watch page:

Partial List of Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09
2/2/12 David Higgs and Salmaan Siddiqui, Credit Suisse, plead guilty to conspiracy involving valuation of MBS
3/6/12 Allen Stanford, former Caribbean billionaire and general schmuck, convicted on 13 of 14 counts in $2.2B Ponzi scheme, faces 20+ years in prison
6/4/12 Matthew Kluger, lawyer, sentenced to 12 years in prison, along with co-conspirator stock trader Garrett Bauer (9 years) and co-conspirator Kenneth Robinson (not yet sentenced) for 17 year insider trading scheme.
6/14/12 Allen Stanford sentenced to 110 years without parole.
6/15/12 Rajat Gupta, former Goldman Sachs director, found guilty of insider trading. Could face a decade in prison when sentenced later this year.
6/22/12 Timothy S. Durham, 49, former CEO of Fair Financial Company, convicted of one count conspiracy to commit wire and securities fraud, 10 counts of wire fraud, and one count of securities fraud.
6/22/12 James F. Cochran, 56, former chairman of the board of Fair, convicted of one count of conspiracy to commit wire and securities fraud, one count of securities fraud, and six counts of wire fraud.
6/22/12 Rick D. Snow, 48, former CFO of Fair, convicted of one count of conspiracy to commit wire and securities fraud, one count of securities fraud, and three counts of wire fraud.
7/13/12 Russell Wassendorf Sr., CEO of collapsed brokerage firm Peregrine Financial Group Inc. arrested and charged with lying to regulators after admitting to authorities he embezzled "millions of dollars" and forged bank statements for "nearly twenty years."
8/22/12 Doug Whitman, Whitman Capital LLC hedge fund founder, convicted of insider trading following a trial in which he spent more than two days on the stand telling jurors he was innocent
10/26/12 UPDATE: Former Goldman Sachs director Rajat Gupta sentenced to two years in federal prison. He will, of course, appeal. . .
11/20/12 Hedge fund manager Matthew Martoma charged with insider trading at SAC Capital Advisors, and prosecutors are looking at Martoma's boss, Steven Cohen, for possible involvement.
02/14/13 Gilbert Lopez, former chief accounting officer of Stanford Financial Group, and former controller Mark Kuhrt sentenced to 20 yrs in prison for their roles in Allen Sanford's $7.2 billion Ponzi scheme.
03/29/13 Michael Sternberg, portfolio mgr at SAC Capital, arrested in NYC, charged with conspiracy and securities fraud. Pled not guilty and freed on $3m bail.
04/04/13 Matthew Marshall Taylor,fmr Goldman Sachs trader arrested, charged by CFTC w/defrauding his employer on $8BN futures bet "by intentionally concealing the true huge size, as well as the risk and potential profits or losses associated."
04/04/13 Matthew Taylor admits guilt, makes plea bargain. Sentencing set for 26 June; faces up to 20 years in prison but will likely only see 3-4 years. Says, "I am truly sorry."
04/11/13 Ex-KPMG LLP partner Scott London charged by federal prosecutors w/passing inside tips to a friend in exchange for cash, jewelry, and concert tickets; expected to plead guilty in May.
08/01/13 Fabrice Tourré convicted on six counts of security fraud, including "aiding and abetting" his former employer, Goldman Sachs
08/14/13 Javier Martin-Artajo and Julien Grout charged with wire fraud, falsifying records, and conspiracy in connection with JP Morgan's "London Whale" trade.
08/19/13 Phillip A. Falcone, manager of hedge fund Harbinger Capital Partners, agrees to admit to "wrongdoing" in market manipulation. Will banned from securities industry for 5 years and pay $18MM in disgorgement and fines.
09/16/13 Javier Martin-Artajo and Julien Grout officially indicted on charges associated with "London Whale" trade.

- It does look like few end up in jail.

[winter is coming]

166. Looks like that's insider trading and fraud, not the 2008 meltdown, though. n/t

[former9thward]

6. All civil cases.

Nothing criminal.

[KittyWampus]

11. Too hard to get a conviction. Just like OJ.

[former9thward]

15. Well I agree although OJ may not be the best example.

There were a lot of different dynamics happening there. But companies of that size don't worry about civil cases that much. It is a cost of doing business.

[treestar]

122. Totally disagree

Ordinary types of cases, but not this stuff. And even so, they do a lot to attempt to avoid suits.

[winter is coming]

19. Incredibly difficult, when you don't even try.

I guess Iceland is populated by supermen, or something.

[sendero]

43. The excuse-making..

.. here is astounding. These crimes were blatant and trivial to prove. They didn't even get to a grand jury.

It's the MONEY. Dumbasses.

[KittyWampus]

85. AND, another fact-free pantload. Money wasn't appropriated for investigations, several attempts

at criminal investigations failed AND money was "clawed back".


"Money was also shorter than anticipated. While the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act had approved $165 million in new funds for the Justice Department, the Senate Appropriations Committee only approved $30 million."

the difference between myself and ideologues is I can be critical and disappointed w/how criminal cases were and are being handled by Government… but since I'm in the fact-based reality, I know more has gone on than those such as yourself will acknowledge.

[sendero]

90. Could you actually be SERIOUS?

... If someone robs a bank, "clawing back" is not the remedy. JAIL is. And clawing back.

[truedelphi]

146. Funny how Obama felt so comfortable this past summer

Utilizing the Bully pulpit provided by the Oval Office, to try and get us all inflamed for a war on Syria. And he bragged at the time that he could find money for it, too.

(Sigh) But somehow there is never a will, a way or the money to make the system work out very well for the ever dwindling Middle Class.

Or as Kurt Vonnegut once wrote:

"Thus did a handful of rapacious citizens come to control all that was worth controlling in America. Thus was the savage and stupid and entirely inappropriate... American class system created. Honest, industrious, peaceful citizens were classed as bloodsuckers, if they asked to be paid a living wage. And they saw that praise was reserved henceforth for those who devised means of getting paid enormously for committing crimes against which no laws had been passed. Thus the American dream turned belly up, turned green, bobbed to the scummy surface of cupidity unlimited, filled with gas, went bang in the noonday sun.” - Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater

[treestar]

123. It's too easy to judge others who do different jobs

When it comes to legal cases, way too easy. Too many people declare a job easy when they've never done it.

[sendero]

125. LOL...

.... but they never have a problem busting some hapless pot smoker. I've watched the justice system for a long time. It's always had problems but they are getting worse. And as for the banksters, it couldn't be more obvious the fix was in.

[treestar]

127. If you don't like pot being against that law that's one thing

Naturally it is much easier to have evidence for it than of fraud. Even the simplest fraud case can be tough to prove.

[KittyWampus]

84. I could post examples but ideologues are uninterested in actual facts

Well- here is one little tidbit for you ignore:

In late-November, 2009, the Justice Department lost its high-profile case against two Bear Stearns hedge-fund managers: a huge blow to morale.

[winter is coming]

102. Failing to prosecute the Wall Street banks is a much larger blow to morale.

There's no legal reason why a civil prosecution can't be pursued in parallel with a criminal one.

[Octafish]

107. + $16 Trillion Bernie Sanders audited

And they act like they never heard of William K. Black.

[BlueStreak]

130. Exactly. Slaps on the wrist

They steal 100 million and have to give back a $5 million fine while admitting no wrong-doing. This is good business.

[Scuba]

8. Let me know when Jamie Dimon is wearing an orange jumpsuit.

Only laserhaas is actually doing shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024167286

[Historic NY]

27. JP Morgan facing $2bn fine for involvement in Madoff ponzi scheme

JP Morgan Chase, the biggest bank in the US, is facing another multi-billion dollar fine, this time deriving from its involvement with notorious Ponzi scheme fraudster Bernard Madoff.

The bank has tentatively agreed to pay $2bn to settle allegations it failed to inform US authorities of the jailed fraudsters suspicious activity, according to people familiar with negotiations. A settlement deal with the Justice Department could come as early as next week. The bank declined to comment.

The agreement would be the second time in a month that JP Morgan has been forced to acknowledge wrongdoing. On November 19 the bank paid a record $13bn to settle charges that it routinely bundled poor quality home loans into securities that were billed as high-quality to investors. That settlement too required the bank to own up to wrongdoing, something Wall Street has fought against for fear of triggering more shareholder lawsuits.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/12/jpmorgan-facing-2bn-fine-madoff-involvement

[Scuba]

29. And the only one in jail is Madoff, who stole from the 1%.

If I can steal $100 billion and pay a $13 B fine, I'm way ahead of the game, ready for round two.

[frylock]

63. 2B to JP Morgan is like me wiping my ass with a 5 dollar bill..

whoop-de-fucking-doo.

[Phlem]

78. wow I guess you don't know everything at all!

Nice try.

-p

[HangOnKids]

82. Indeed!

[djean111]

12. Civil fraud - only penalties they can certainly afford to pay.

No jail time.

[TroglodyteScholar]

13. Too little.

Seen what's been happening in Iceland for the past few years?

[tazkcmo]

14. No, it doesn't count

No jail time. Fines that are a mere fraction of the illegal gain.

[sendero]

44. People that...

... just don't want to get it won't get it. Fines mean nothing to these folks. It doesn't come from their pockets.

The willful stupidity is saddening.

[dickthegrouch]

16. Easier convictions are the root of this

"Preponderance of evidence" vs "No reasonable doubt" makes civil cases easier to resolve. However the penalties tend to be less. I think restitution should be required to each and every family harmed. If someone lost their house to foreclosure they should be reimbursed for the full value of their equity PLUS the value of their mortgage at the time. The banks should have to fund that out of bonus pools, shareholder equity and capital. No consumer charges to offset their perfidy.

Yes, my suggested punishments might well cripple a few banks, that's the whole point.

[winter is coming]

41. It's not an either/or decision. The DOJ could have pursued both criminal and civil charges. n/t

[KittyWampus]

87. They did. You go through this thread full of fail.

[rhett o rick]

17. Before I go crazy-excited I will wait until the sentencing stage.

BoA and UBS have gotten off paying fines of approx 10% (60% for JP Morgan) of their fraudulent earnings with the added agreement that they wont have to admit any "wrongdoing". Not a bad "working model."

[JEB]

20. Yeah, it's like tipping your server...

in this case the government serving the banksters.

[rhett o rick]

24. John Stewart said it's giving the government their cut. nm

[JEB]

67. Pretty damn close to absolutely correct.

[KeepItReal]

18. JPMorgan can deduct big chunk of $13 billion deal

Here's why: Many of the costs associated with corporate legal cases are treated as deductible under the tax code, in much the same way that a company's wages or equipment expenses are. That means JPMorgan will be able to reduce its tax bill because of many of the settlement payments that it must make.

"In 1969, Congress decided that allowing companies to deduct fines and similar penalties frustrated public policy, so it disallowed deductions for these payments -- and, separately, disallowed deductions for antitrust damages, illegal bribes, and kickbacks," Rosenthal said.

The U.S. Department of Justice, which negotiated the deal with JPMorgan, said the bank will pay $2 billion as a "civil penalty" to settle certain legal claims.

And it's JPMorgan's understanding that the $2 billion is not deductible, the bank's chief financial officer said on an analyst call Tuesday.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/19/news/companies/jpmorgan-doj-deal/

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Get back to me when the the jail time is handed out. Don't bother if fines are all that ensues.

So the companies will pay fines to the government. Tell me how this is justice for the people who got fucked by these criminals who will see not a DAY of jail?

Excuse me if I don't join you on the roof singing the praise...

[bvar22]

22. WooHoo!! Justice is HERE!!!

When do we get to see Perp Walks by the Big Guys?

When do we get our money back?

[ProSense]

23. Actually,

"Does this count? "

...no. Nothing counts, not the reports in the OP or these:

Former BofA Exec Indicted For Fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002990749

Former Chief Investment Officer of Stanford Financial Group Pleads Guilty to Obstruction of Justice
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/2012/12-crm-785.html

Former Corporate Chairman of Consulting Firm and Board Director Rajat Gupta Found Guilty of Insider Trading in Manhattan Federal Court
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/NYS-120615.html

Hedge Fund Founder Raj Rajaratnam Sentenced in Manhattan Federal Court to 11 Years in Prison for Insider Trading Crimes
http://www.stopfraud.gov/news/news-10132011.html

CEO and Head Trader of Bankrupt Sentinel Management Indicted in Chicago in Alleged $500 Million Fraud Scheme Prior to Firm’s 2007 Collapse
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/ILN-120601.html

Yahoo! Executive and California Hedge Fund Portfolio Manager Plead Guilty in New York for Insider Trading
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/NYS-120521.html

Three Former Financial Services Executives Convicted for Roles in Conspiracies Involving Investment Contracts for the Proceeds of Municipal Bonds
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/2012/12-at-620.html

Former Chairman of Taylor, Bean & Whitaker Sentenced to 30 Years in Prison and Ordered to Forfeit $38.5 Million
http://www.stopfraud.gov/news/news-06302011-2.html
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/2012/12-crm-342.html

Former Chief Financial Officer of Taylor, Bean & Whitaker Pleads Guilty to Fraud Scheme
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/2012/12-crm-342.html

Seattle Investment Fund Founder Sentenced to 18 Years in Prison for Ponzi Scheme and Bankruptcy Fraud
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/WAW-120210.html

Former Hedge Fund Managing Director Sentenced to 20 Years for Defrauding 900 Investors in $294 Million Scheme
http://www.stopfraud.gov/iso/opa/stopfraud/ILN-111117.html

[Cali_Democrat]

25. THAT DOESN'T COUNT DAMMIT!!!

IT NEVER COUNTS!!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. +1000

[sagat]

46. The chronically-sore are impervious to facts.

[KittyWampus]

88. the more technical term is "ideologue". I've learned to use it here on DU when it applies rather

than insults. Especially since I was getting alert trolled so often.

[babylonsister]

56. Whoa!!!!

[NuclearDem]

62. Yeah, none of those had anything to do with the subprime mortgage/financial crisis.

Those are a bunch of Ponzi schemes, insider trading, and fraud. Not the near collapse of the economy and evicting thousands from their homes.

Again, wake me Jamie Dimon is in handcuffs.

[joshcryer]

92. The mortgage fraud was weirdly legal and legal at the same time.

That's the problem.

And the people doing the illegal shit?

Hundreds of thousands of agents being part of the robosigning debacle (which is really what caused artificial housing bubble to begin with, derivatives had little to do with it).

They were given amnesty because 1) they were regular citizens following the orders of the corporations and 2) they were acting legally in some states but illegally in other states. Under the equal protection of the law it stands to reason that they weren't aware of what was going on.

Now the bosses who told their agents to do robosigning? They should be prosecuted. And that is difficult to do because you have to prove that they knew the robosigning was illegal across state lines. At least Obama vetoed the attempts to make it entirely legal. So there is still hope some will be prosecuted.

It's unlikely to be a top level CEO though because they keep enough obfuscation between themselves and the workers as to be basically immune from prosecution. That sucks, but we have trial by jury in the US. What we need is an AG that has actual ethics and prosecutes anyway because the AG has discretion to prosecute even if the evidence is very iffy. An AG that interviews everyone in an entire company, spends 5 years investigating each and every big bank, spends billions if need be.

[Octafish]

164. Thank you.

Never let the truth get in the way of good propaganda.

[JackRiddler]

65. No, a list of cases doesn't count.

Cumulative reality says otherwise. Here is a chart of criminal prosecutions for banking frauds:



It's a big country. There's always some insider trading case. It is completely misleading to include examples like the Stanford guy, Madoff or Raj Rajaratnam as though prosecution of these common middle-level criminals (by Wall Street standards, that is what they are) who generally failed before they were exposed represents a prosecution of Wall Street for the millennial frauds of 2002-2007.

No one has been indicted for the subprime securities, ratings and derivatives frauds that caused the 2007-2009 crash.

Criminal cases are essential, as only these will deter future criminals. Civil penalties are paid by the institutions and usually (even when huge) represent a fraction of the actual damage done. A business expense. A symbolic sop for the likes of you to list as though it represents standing up to Wall Street.

None of the major Wall Street banks should even exist. They would have gone down like dominoes, due to their own frauds conducted under the game to which they had written the rules. They were collectively rescued by the Fed and TARP bailouts, thus rewarded for crimes. The system remains as unstable as ever.

[winter is coming]

70. ^^ Thread win.

[pkdu]

76. You hand out thread wins without source /link? Nt

[Bobbie Jo]

95. That's how they roll....

Fox "News" has nothing on this crew.

[winter is coming]

105. Yup. It's got as much substance as the OP, and doesn't proceed from the default

assumption that defending the actions of the Obama Administration at all costs is the Prime Directive.

The DOJ hasn't filed criminal charges against the big banks, and they're not likely to. Let's not inflate the civil prosecutions into something they're not. They don't begin to be a deterrent to further behavior, nor do they represent a hardship for the people who tanked our economy.

[pkdu]

154. Right.Sure it has. Zero versus Four sources...nt

[ProSense]

91. I know. It "doesn't count." Also,

I've seen that chart many times before. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002990749#post4

I'll repost my response here...

Not only does the chart you posted shows that prosecutions started dropping after the repeal of Glass-Steagall, it also shows prosecutions, not convictions. It's also not conclusive because it doesn't state what specifically it includes and appears to be related to bank fraud. Here's the reference:

This category can refer to crimes committed both within and against banks. Defendants include bank executives who mislead regulators, mortgage brokers who falsify loan documents, and consumers who write bad checks. (Here are some recent cases of bank fraud prosecutions.)

Goldman Sachs is not a bank. Still, even if it is bank fraud, it does offer more evidence of Bush's "abysmal" record, as these prosecutions dropped significantly during his Presidency.

The following is from the Financial Institution Fraud and Failure Reports for each fiscal year.



http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fiff_00-01




http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fiff-2002

(b): Types of Subjects Convicted in FIF Cases During FY 2007*
SUBJECT TYPE NUMBER OF SUBJECTS
Legal Alien 8
Illegal Alien 20
All Other Subjects 1,038
Bank Officer 88
Bank Employee 179
International or National Union Officer 1
President 1
Business Manager 2
Office Manager 2
Financial Secretary 1
Federal Employee - GS 12 & Below 1
State - All Others 1
Local Law Enforcement Officer 1
City Councilman 1
Possible Terrorist Member or Sympathizer 1
Company or Corporation 7
Local - All Others 2
Total 1,354

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fiff_06-07/fiff_06-07



http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fiff_06-07/fiff_06-07

Given yhe above charts and the break out for 2007, it appears that most of the convictions were not bank executives. In fact, the majority were bank "outsiders," likely meaning more bad-check writers and document falsifiers.

Also, bank fraud is separate from corporate fraud, mortgage fraud, and securities and commodities fraud.

The following is from the Financial Crimes Report to the Public for each fiscal year:
(Note: The 2005 report does not break out securities and commodities fraud. The 2010-2011 report is the only one that breaks out financial institution fraud. All reports show corporate fraud and mortgage fraud.)

Through Fiscal Year 2005, cases pursued by the FBI resulted in 497 indictments and 317 convictions of corporate criminals. Numerous cases are pending plea agreements and trials. From July 1, 2002 through March 31, 2005, accomplishments regarding Corporate Fraud cases were as follows: $2.2 billion in Restitutions, $34.6 million in Recoveries, $79.1 million in Fines, and $27.9 million in Seizures. As Corporate Fraud statistical accomplishments were not provided before July 1, 2002, the following statistical accomplishments are reflective of this time frame through Second Quarter, Fiscal Year 2005.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2005/fcs_2005#CORPORATE

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2005/fcs_2005#MORTGAGE

_________

During FY 2006, the FBI investigated 490 Corporate Fraud cases resulting in 171 indictments and 124 convictions of corporate criminals. Numerous cases are pending plea agreements and trials. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in FY 2006 for Corporate Fraud: $1.2 billion in Restitutions, $41.5 million in Recoveries, $14.2 million in Fines, and $62.6 million in Seizures. The chart below is reflective of the number of pending cases from FY 2002 through FY 2006.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2006

During FY 2006, the FBI investigated 1165 cases of Securities and Commodities fraud and recorded 302 indictments and 164 convictions. Many of these Securities Fraud cases are pending plea agreements or trials. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in FY 2006 for Securities and Commodities Fraud: $1.9 billion in Restitutions, $20.6 million in Recoveries, $80.7 million in Fines, and $62.7 million in Seizures. The chart below is reflective of the number of pending cases from FY 2002 through FY 2006.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2006/financial-crimes-report-to-the-public-fiscal-year-2006#Securities

Through FY 2006, 818 cases investigated by the FBI resulted in 263 indictments and 204 convictions of Mortgage Fraud criminals. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in FY 2006 for Mortgage Fraud: $388.9 million in Restitutions, $1.4 million in Recoveries, and $231 million in Fines. The chart below is reflective of the number of pending cases from FY 2003 through FY 2006.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2006/financial-crimes-report-to-the-public-fiscal-year-2006#Mortgage

___________

Through FY 2007, cases pursued by the FBI resulted in 183 indictments and 173 convictions of corporate criminals. Numerous cases are pending plea agreements and trials. During Fiscal Year 2007, the FBI secured $12.6 billion in restitution orders and $38.6 million in fines from corporate criminals. The chart below reflects corporate fraud pending cases from Fiscal Year 2003 through Fiscal Year 2007 as follows: Fiscal Year 2003 - 279 cases; Fiscal Year 2004 - 332; Fiscal Year 2005 - 423; Fiscal Year 2006 - 486; and Fiscal Year 2008 - 529 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2007/fcr_2007#corporate

As of the end of Fiscal Year 2007, the FBI was investigating 1,217 cases of securities and commodities fraud and had already recorded 320 indictments and 289 convictions. Additional notable accomplishments in Fiscal Year 2007 include: $1.7 billion in restitution orders; $24 million in recoveries; and $202.7 million in fines. The chart below reflects securities and commodities fraud pending cases from Fiscal Year 2003 through Fiscal Year 2007 as follows: Fiscal Year 2003 - 937 cases; Fiscal Year 2004 - 987cases; Fiscal Year 2005 - 1,139 cases; Fiscal Year 2006 - 1,165 cases; and Fiscal Year 2007 - 1,217 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2007/fcr_2007#securities

Through Fiscal Year 2007, 1,204 cases resulted in 321 indictments and 260 convictions of mortgage fraud criminals. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in Fiscal Year 2007 for mortgage fraud: $595.9 million in restitutions, $21.8 million in recoveries, and $1.7 in fines. The chart below reflects mortgage fraud pending cases from Fiscal Year 2003 through Fiscal Year 2007 as follows: Fiscal Year 2003 - 436 cases; Fiscal Year 2004 - 534 cases; Fiscal Year 2005 - 721 cases; Fiscal Year 2006 - 818 cases; and Fiscal Year 2007 - 1,204 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2007/fcr_2007#mortgage

______________

Through FY 2008, cases pursued by the FBI resulted in 158 indictments and 132 convictions of corporate criminals. Numerous cases are pending plea agreements and trials. During FY 2008, the FBI secured $8.1 billion in restitution orders and $199 million in fines from corporate criminals. The chart below reflects corporate fraud pending cases from FY 2004 through FY 2008 as follows: FY 2004—332 cases; FY 2005—423; FY 2006—486; FY 2007—529; and FY 2008—545 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2008/financial-crimes-report-to-the-public#corporate

As of the end of FY 2008, the FBI was investigating 1,210 cases of securities and commodities fraud and had already recorded 357 indictments and 296 convictions. Additional notable accomplishments in FY 2008 include: $3.1 billion in restitution orders; $43.6 million in recoveries; $151.4 million in fines and $84.2 million in seizures. The chart below reflects securities and commodities fraud pending cases from FY 2004 through FY 2008 as follows: FY 2004—987cases; FY 2005—1,139 cases; FY 2006—1,165 cases; FY 2007—1,217 cases and FY 2008—1,210 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2008/financial-crimes-report-to-the-public#securities

Through FY 2008, 1,644 cases resulted in 560 indictments and 338 convictions of mortgage fraud criminals. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in FY 2008 for mortgage fraud: $1.1 billion in restitutions, $3.3 million in recoveries, $3.1 million in fines, and 68 seizures valued at $476.7 million. The chart below reflects mortgage fraud pending cases from FY 2004 through FY 2008 as follows: FY 2004—534 cases; FY 2005—721 cases; FY 2006—818 cases; FY 2007—1,204 cases; and FY 2008—1,644 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2008/financial-crimes-report-to-the-public#mortgage

____________

Through FY 2009, cases pursued by the FBI resulted in 153 indictments/informations and 156 convictions of corporate criminals. Numerous cases are pending plea agreements and trials. During FY 2009, the FBI secured $6.1 billion in restitution orders and $5.4 million in fines from corporate criminals. The chart below reflects corporate fraud pending cases from FY 2005 through FY 2009 as follows: FY 2005— 423 cases; FY 2006—486 cases; FY 2007—529 cases; FY 2008—545 cases; and FY 2009—592 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2009/financial-crimes-report-2009

As of the end of FY 2009, the FBI was investigating 1,510 cases of securities and commodities fraud and had already recorded 412 indictments/informations and 306 convictions. Additional notable accomplishments in FY 2009 include: $8.1 billion in restitution orders; $63.4 million in recoveries; $12.8 million in fines; and $126 million in seizures. The chart below reflects securities and commodities fraud pending cases from FY 2005 through FY 2009 as follows: FY 2005—1,139 cases; FY 2006—1,165 cases; FY 2007—1,217 cases; FY 2008—1,210 cases; and FY 2009— 1,510 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2009/financial-crimes-report-2009#securities

Through FY 2009, 2,794 cases resulted in 822 indictments and 494 convictions of mortgage fraud criminals. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in FY 2009 for mortgage fraud: $2.5 billion in restitutions, $7.5 million in recoveries, and $58.4 million in fines; 128 seizures valued at $5.06 million and 226 criminal indicted assets valued at $510.1 million. The chart below reflects mortgage fraud pending cases from FY 2005 through FY 2009 as follows: FY 2005—721 cases; FY 2006—818 cases; FY 2007—1,204 cases; FY 2008—1,644 cases; and FY 2009—2,794 cases.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2009/financial-crimes-report-2009#mortgage

_____________

During FY 2011, cases pursued by the FBI resulted in 242 indictments/informations and 241 convictions of corporate criminals. Numerous cases are pending plea agreements and trials. During FY 2011, the FBI secured $2.4 billion in restitution orders and $16.1 million in fines from corporate criminals. The chart below reflects corporate fraud pending cases from FY 2007 through FY 2011.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011#Corporate

As of the end of FY 2011, the FBI was investigating 1,846 cases of securities and commodities fraud and had recorded 520 indictments/informations and 394 convictions against this criminal threat. Additional notable accomplishments in FY 2011 include: $8.8 billion in restitution orders; $36 million in recoveries; $113 million in fines; and $751 million in forfeitures. The chart below reflects securities and commodities fraud pending cases from FY 2007 through FY 2011.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011#Securities

During FY 2011, cases pursued by the FBI resulted in 521 informations and indictments, and 429 convictions of FIF criminals. The following are notable statistical accomplishments in FY 2011 for FIF: $1.38 billion in restitutions; $116.3 million in fines; and seizures valued at $15.7 million. The chart below reflects pending FIF cases from FY 2007 through FY 2011.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011#Financial-ins

Through FY 2011, FBI investigations resulted in 1,223 informations and indictments and 1,082 convictions of mortgage fraud criminals. The following notable statistical accomplishments are reflective in FY 2011 for mortgage fraud: $1.38 billion in restitutions; $116.3 million in fines; seizures valued at $15.7 million; and $7.33 million in forfeitures.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011/financial-crimes-report-2010-2011#Mortgage

Pending cases are important because they can still result in convictions.


President Obama’s Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force STRIKES AGAIN! $200 Million Fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002844790

[joshcryer]

94. As usual the GOP gets a pass.

Don't let it bug you too much.

[SidDithers]

98. Thread win...

Sid

[joshcryer]

93. The fraud became legal.

So there's that.

Change the laws that make it legal.

[Ghost Dog]

161. All good points. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

77. Yes, but you must remember, Obama just had his 5th year in the WH and it was his worst.

Because that is the meme the mainstream media wants to push, not bankers going to jail or banks paying humongous fines.

[treestar]

124. not good enough!!!!!

What about Bush and Cheney! !!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jtuck004]

26. So big contrtibutors to the Democratic Party get a civil slap on the wrist and 5+ million FAMILIES

are thrown into the street in foreclosure, millions of people permanently lose their jobs, and we live through 5 years of increasing poverty for working people and increasing wealth for a small, well-connected minority, and the country is taught that crime really can pay, up to and including record profits in 2013, depending on who you get to save you from pitchfork wielding mobs...

"Obama to Bankers: I’m Standing ‘Between You and the Pitchforks" here.

It doesn't even start adding up.

[Egalitarian Thug]

31. Oh yes, the prospect of maybe having to pay 10% of what they stole is simply terrifying them.

Puh-lease...

[TheKentuckian]

32. So? What comes of that save some token fine that fucks at CNBC will cry about as the largest fine?

Meanwhile, us peons get locked up, strip searched, and lose our jobs for spitting on a sidewalk.

Holler back when they start measuring orange jumpsuits.

[Tx4obama]

35. See Comment #23

[dreamnightwind]

142. Actually see post #26

If you can see the forest not just the trees, that post you are referring to (#23) is a joke, and the joke is on us.

[politichew]

33. Not one of these headlines would be generated under a GOP president.

President Obama is not there to carry out revenge fantasies for radicals.

He is doing what he can.

[zeemike]

40. Bernie Madoff was.

But he stole from the rich so that is different.
But it is not a revenge fantasies to want justice for the millions of ordinary not rich people who were stolen from...and justice means punishment and restitution not a fine paid to the government and the perps to walk free to pray on them again.

[MyNameGoesHere]

36. Lovely. However.

This country has been left with too many hollow victories. I start by the scene of Nixon leaving the White house in a helicopter with that shit eating peace sign. Reagan admitting he broke the lie and AW shucks we're sorry. Now don't get confused here and jump the guillotine. I don't mean Obama needs to get prosecuted. However, Corporations are not faces, regardless of what mitt says. I don't get any sense of evil being prosecuted by some lengthy court room drama that ends in some 100 page decision.

What would give me confidence and restore my faith a little, is a constant frog march of the leaders that caused this. And seeing a judge sentence one of these rat bastards to many years being televised would give me wood. Nothing else is even close.

[Ace Acme]

37. The Natives are Getting Restless

That's the only explanation I've got for this sudden busting out of the appearances of
progress all over, starting with throwing out the filibuster (which they could have done
years ago).

I'll believe it when I see results. Investigations? I've seen investigations before.

[hobbit709]

38. I'll believe it when they actually serve time.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

39. It seems that the economy was a priority up until now. It makes sense to wait.

At the time, it was maddening as hell. But I think I understand the need to wait.

[winter is coming]

47. So, the DOJ could do nothing because the banksters had a gun to our heads?

Nothing's been done to take that gun away, as near as I can tell. No meaningful curbs on the sort of behavior that led to the crash have been enacted. This is a flurry of faux accountability, to make it look as if something has been done. The end result will be nothing more than fines the perpetrators can easily afford.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

80. The fallout would have put us most definitely into a deeper recession.

Just the mere idea of big wigs getting punished would have been the kind of alert that the media would have driven and our 401K's would have been worthless.

I'm fairly certain that is a big factor in this. It explains why they are doing it now and piecemeal.

[winter is coming]

103. I'm fairly certain that that's a big excuse to do nothing of substance,

and by doing nothing of substance we enable the banks to do the same thing all over again.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

112. so, that explains . . .

. . . why the DOJ is going after them now? My reasoning makes some sense.

[winter is coming]

140. The DOJ's "going after them now" is a civil case. If they get a conviction, the fine will sound

like a tremendous amount of money to us, but for the corporation fined, it will be a drop in the bucket. It's like when Exxon gets what sounds like a crippling fine, and then you find out that ginormous fine is two months' worth of their profits.

No doubt any organization that's convicted and fined will complain about their dire injury, much like an NBA player pretending to have been fouled, but it's all for show.

[1000words]

48. Hope you didn't spend too much time putting this one together

"Falling short" doesn't even begin to describe the fail.

[SomethingFishy]

50. Victory!

Pensions returned. 401K's recovered. Homes given back to the people they were STOLEN from, Tarp funds that went to million dollar bonuses given back!!!

Woo hoo break out the champaign!

[Luminous Animal]

51. Do you know how meaningless these civil suits are? They'll cut a deal, get the tax write off

and continue on their merry way screwing us over because the playing field went from a 90 yard advantage to the 1% to a 85% advantage to the 1%.

The justice department isn't pursuing justice, they are cutting deals.

[tkmorris]

61. You are exactly correct of course

That is a point which has been made more than once in this thread, though it is getting completely ignored by those pushing the opposite narrative.

[1000words]

68. Perhaps they're bogged down in semantics

Those legal words can be confusing.

[joshcryer]

96. I think you can do it, but you need to spend millions if not a billion or more.

These CEOs are really disconnected from the lower level illegalities that were actually happening (see: robosigning).

You need to investigate every bank, or securities agency, go from the top to the bottom, audit entire records. It would be extremely expensive, perhaps the most expensive investigation in history.

Remember how Kenn Starr investigated the Clintons to the tune of $80 million. That has to be done again.

The US is a democracy with trial by jury. If you want a conviction you can't just say "hey, that guy was the head of the company, he committed fraud." You have to prove the connection between the fraud and the actions of the CEO. And remember, this will be a guy with lawyers who will throw a wrench into the whole procedural process. We're talking probably a decade of delays alone on it.

It's a crazy commitment to be sure and any new AG could just throw it out because it's too hard. That's what living in a plutocracy is like.

[dreamnightwind]

143. It's far more expensive to not do it

The real expense, and the real reason it won't happen, is that few elected office holders want their party to lose the massive campaign contributions they get from the financial sector, which would give an advantage to the other party.

The pivot that needs to happen is for our party to realize that real power comes from supporting the interests of the electorate. Instead they are appeasing and deferring to the corporations that are screwing everyone over in order to raise campaign contributions from said corporations so our party can pay for ad-buys from other similarly invested media corporations in order to sell the electorate on supporting the lessor of two evils.

Throw off the chains of corporate money, they have left our party morally bankrupt and representing the corporations not the people.

There are people like William Black around today who would love to do this. Hell, William Black himself is still around and very capable.

And it needn't be just about nailing the CEO. If the CEO has sufficiently obfuscated their connection to wrong-doing, you take out whatever isn't nailed down and leave them CEO of a bankrupt or non-existent corporation. It's about systemic correction, and without an effective prosecutorial surge, armed with and using tools like the corporate death penalty, clawbacks with punitive damages penalties, and real and hard jail time for the people who engineered this, they'll happily continue this profitable game into the next crisis. So far it has been incredibly profitable for them, we have to change that or die trying.

[Hekate]

53. Thank you, Cali Democrat, thank you

[Aerows]

54. Call me when Lloyd Blankfein and Jimmy Dimon

aren't just in the jail, but under it. Throw in Timothy Geitner and Paulsen, and I might let them all out on their 90th birthday if they make it that long.

[lostincalifornia]

55. we don't need evidence to make a case, just go off without purpose, it is far easier to piss an moan

[certainot]

60. casual or recent observers of politics might be naive enough to think obama was going to charge into

the white billionaires' house and kick ass

just throw out all the fundy and fascist military brass and those fundy christian college and RW think tank lawyers that bush/rove filled the military and DOJ with- just throw em all out!!!

while we let 1200 of the loudest radio stations in the world take free pot shots at obama all day, with our state funded college team mascots stickered all over their megaphones.

so we let them scream our sisters are sluts and brothers are thieves and our ideas are treasonous and the dems and president are trying to destroy america- with no response, and then wonder why our politicians don't stick their necks out far enough.

har de har har

[cherokeeprogressive]

69. I'll take that word salad with Bleu Cheese please, and fresh ground pepper.

Maybe you aren't aware of this... but President Obama doesn't prosecute crimes, and the DOJ is supposed to be independent of political influence. And you can take the "RW think tank lawyers that bush rove filled the... DOJ with" and put it where the sun don't shine because they ALL work for Eric Holder. You are aware of that, right?

[rhett o rick]

71. They cant make up their minds if Obama is responsible or not for anything.

He appointed Penny Pritzker and to me that's enough to tell me where he stands.

[certainot]

74. see below

[certainot]

72. sure.....

[certainot]

73. PS let me put it this way

you're going after the biggest names on wall street, working for the richest people on earth, against the best lawyers money can buy, and you're using maybe a few hundred staff in several departments and you know 10% of them think the president is a kenyan marxist and maybe the antichrist and 1/2 might consider job offers from the heritage foundation or fifty other RW stink tanks and maybe even the perps themselves.

you think that's going to happen in a year?

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. Try five years.

[certainot]

108. that sounds more like it (keeping fingers crossed)

[rhett o rick]

114. Let me put it this way. I dont think it will happen at all. I think there will be some

smoke and mirrors and petty fines and in the end nothing substantial. It is extremely naive not to recognize that The Powers To Be own most of our politicians. I think Pres Obama's heart isnt into it based on his appointments. I could give you the list but I think Penny Pritzker pretty much sums it up in a name.

We are in a class war and if Obama is fighting for our side (financially he belongs to the 1% club) he isnt fighting very hard.

[warrant46]

89. Eric Holder is very timid around the 1% and their agents

In fact he has no spine, it was removed a long time ago

He will have no legacy but derision from many who voted for his boss. I fact if his boss had a spine he would have fired this shirker a long time ago

[rhett o rick]

116. And that's your rationalization for sticking with the status quo? You will love Clinton as presiden

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2013, 09:15 PM - Edit history (1)

And you will be singing the same song you sing above.

I work at a foodbank and believe me we can not survive eight more years of your rationalizations.

People are literally dying in the streets. We recently had one of our clients come in with a walker. When asked what happened he said he lives in a tent and was careless and got frostbite on his foot. His diabetes didnt help the healing process. The status quo wont cut it.

[certainot]

144. and it will get worse if liberals and thinking americans and dems continue to ignore what's been

kicking their ass for 25 years.

[rhett o rick]

145. I absolutely agree. We must elect progressives. No more DLC Democrats. nm

[certainot]

147. RW radio stations are very well coordinated on the state level by the local/state RW stink tanks and

GOP.

they get to trash progressives and liberals (from megaphones stickered with state college sports team logos to give them community standing) and progressives have no clue except in a general way.

progressive orgs and the dem party don't know what's blasted toward their candidates because they don't listen to it and can't read it. the think tanks can schedule topics and timing and get paid callers to prompt the talkers and lie and distort with passive reaction from the local talker. they will use those stations locally the way they do nationally- to minimize liberals advancing, attack them, distort issues, and generally make sure we are fucked. the dem party has no idea until it's all over the place and 'true' and it's too late.

that dems don't realize it and strategize and evaluate as if talk radio is just fox's little brother has been the biggest political mistake in history considering time lost on global warming.

warren and sanders would be more like the norm if our progressive orgs stopped wasting volunteer time and donations merely because they have to play catch up - because they have no reaction to RW radio.

[AgingAmerican]

79. Criminal charges?

Now they get frog marched off to jail....right?

[Whisp]

81. K&R

but but but I thought Obama was a Wall Streeter who got elected especially to protect the Sachs and Morgans.



yay! I knew something would be done, but it takes a lot of time to make a case of this magnitude.

Instant gratification kids are too used to problems being solved in a one hour tv show.

[LittleBlue]

83. Oh wow, corporations will pay a fine. Probably with money the

taxpayers gifted to them

Nice try

[Cha]

86. Thank you for this information, Cali_Dem~

You're a treasure

[JoePhilly]

97. The folks who are always complaining will simply deploy this ...

[99Forever]

99. This claptrap propaganda bullshit...

... doesn't even rate a response.

Some fucking people will buy anything.

[TBF]

100. Thank you for collecting all of these in one place -

many times folks have no idea things are actually going on behind the scenes.

[MannyGoldstein]

101. Elizabeth Warren: Damaging the Democratic Brand

Elizabeth Warren: Damaging the Democratic Brand

Excerpts:

[msanthrope]

104. That chart got it's ass kicked upthread. By posting it, you suggest that you either didn't bother

to read the thread (the responses of your fellow DUers) ,or you failed to comprehend the ass-kicking.

Both seem like fail.

[treestar]

126. I don't see what Warren has to do with it

Even if President, the DOJ would still have to be able to get enough evidence for individual cases.

[librechik]

110. Gosh all these prosecutions and yet not a single high-level bankster in jail

The weakness of laws against the banksters crimes/transgressions is the real problem. And the solution lies with Congress.

[Cali_Democrat]

115. That's not true

See the post upthread by ProSense. There are banksters in jail.

[librechik]

134. yeh, mostly low level patsies.

Call me when they put Jamie Dimon on trial--and win.

[Cali_Democrat]

138. Raj Rajaratnam was a low level guy?

Not true at all! He was the hedge fund manager. He founded the company.

The guy at BofA headed the derivatives desk and was an executive.

The other was a Yahoo executive.

Another was a portfolio manager.

Another was a CEO.

Yet another was a financial services exec.

Another founded a fund.

Another was a managing director of a fund.

These aren't low level patsies.

[Romulox]

156. Raj Rajaratnam was not prosecuted for fraud relating to the 2008 financial collapse. nt

[Mosaic]

111. As usual

We are a bit ahead of the curve here on DU. Eventually things catch up with a lot our concerns and efforts to inform the public.

[treestar]

117. bbbbbbbbut corportists!!!!!!!

Cheney! Bush! Benghazi!

[Capt. Obvious]

121. RELEASE THE BOG!

[rhett o rick]

148. Scary. nm

[Cleita]

128. I'll rejoice when I see the whole banking system returned to the way it ran

before 1970 and all the present Wall Street billionaire bankers are in prison and made to turn their ill gotten billions into the Treasury. It can pay for that national debt the Repubs are always screaming about. Better than that, I would like to see laws passed that all banks run by either states or credit unions. The gamblers can do it separately in brokerage houses like they used to and without our hard earned savings and mortgages in their hands.

[Th1onein]

129. Aren't these CIVIL cases, though?

Which ones are criminal prosecutions? Or have the Statute of Limitations run on the criminal cases? And, if so, why did they let the Statute expire on them?

[snot]

131. Proof's in the pudding. After the S&L scandals, by this time, hundreds had been jailed,

and hundreds of institutions dissolved.

This time around, by now, I think you can count the number of convictions on two hands and they're mostly small-fry.

Then, there's the fact that many prosecutions will soon be blocked, if they aren't already, because the statutes of limitations are running out . . . see, e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1116&pid=44772

or http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024065884

not to mention http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022734035 .

[JoeyT]

150. Let the wrist slapping commence!

I'm sure the very thought of a fine that's a fraction of a percentage of what they stole utterly terrifies them.

I'm sure all the people that saw their lives annihilated by bankster fuckery are tickled pink by the "Thanks Obama!" gifs. I'm sure that's almost as good as seeing the people that ruined your life for a buck punished in a meaningful manner.

[great white snark]

151. Even with these facts "Obama luvs da banks" will still be their go-to meme.

If it doesn't hold true they lose a huge source for outrage and insults.

[Romulox]

155. One gets the impression that the OP doesn't understand the headlines she links. "Civil..." nt

[radhika]

157. I'll cheer when I hear they file criminal charges, not just civil......n/t

[lonestarnot]

162. !

[Romulox]

163. So...ZERO criminal charges for any of the banksters involved in the 2008 meltdown...