Hillary or Elizabeth?

[MannyGoldstein]

Following up on the results of: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4202593

65 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Hillary!
	6 (9%)
	Elizabeth!
	55 (85%)
	Same diff!
	0 (0%)
	Neither!
	4 (6%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[painesghost]

1. I voted Warren even though she would not be my first choice.

I'm more partial to Dean or Schweitzer. She is someone I could easily rally behind though. I will vote for Hillary if she is nominated, but can't bring myself to campaign for her.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. How about Dean/Warren or Warren/Dean?

That's my favorite fantasy choice. Dean was a governor ad DNC chair, knows how to run big things, has a good heart although he's a bit to the right - but trainable. Warren is... Warren.

[painesghost]

11. I'd be for that combo! n/t

I'd probably lean more Dean/Warren though.

[brooklynite]

75. Simpler solution...go with the candidate both Warren and Dean like

[MannyGoldstein]

83. Can you point to a link

Where Warren says she endorses Hillary?

Thanks.

[brooklynite]

90. Nobody's endorsed anybody at this point.

But if Warren asks someone else to run, I going to assume she's supportive of the campaign before I try to come up with a convoluted argument like "she just wants a wide-open primary".

[MannyGoldstein]

98. Can you point to a link where Warren's asked Hillary to run?

Thanks again.

[socialist_n_TN]

134. Why is that convoluted?...

I'm not sure of the reasoning about that. Just because you think someone should run if they want it, doesn't necessarily mean you are a rabid supporter.

I mean I (and the group I'm in) actually DID endorse Sawant, but that doesn't mean I agree with her "Trotskyism".

[JaneyVee]

2. 2014

[winter is coming]

3. Warren, or someone who shares her views. n/t

[Logical]

4. LOL, Hillary? Really? nt

[spanone]

6. repost in 2 years

[MannyGoldstein]

19. DU is consistently 2-3 years ahead of the Democratic Party in general

Which is why this poll is so interesting.

[sheshe2]

7. 2014!

GOTV2014!

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Have you sent a letter to the "Ready for Hillary" people?

They have a huge amount of money; perhaps it's better spent on winning 2014?

[sheshe2]

14. 2014...

Is my concern at the moment.

I will see who is running in 2016 when it happens! I will then make my decision, as of yet I have not.

Sorry to disappoint you Manny, I have not yet made up my mind.

GOTV 2014!

[MannyGoldstein]

17. So you're OK with the Ready for Hillary People hurling cash

at Hillary's candidacy today?

But the rest of us need a ruler across the knuckles?

[brooklynite]

77. Rest assure the RFH people are chipping in for 2014 as well...

...I know a lot of them. We're ponying up for House, Senate and Governor races. But we're also able to multi-task.

[MannyGoldstein]

112. I think we can *all* multitask

I don't get the "2014 only!" stuff. It seemed to me that if we wanted a non-Hillarian candidate, we'd need to start now.

Given the results of this poll... not so concerned anymore. I suspect the whole Party will feel this way in a year or two.

But I'm sure that we'll both keep plugging away.

[treestar]

56. Right she she!

President Obama has more than three years left! Imagine what he could do with a really D Congress.

[LittleBlue]

8. Elizabeth!

ABH all the way

[sheshe2]

9. 2014!

Vote as if your life depends on it, and it does!

GOTV 2014!

[Demo_Chris]

12. No to Hillary. Had enough of that crap. nt

[politichew]

13. Warren / De Blasio! nt

[markpkessinger]

144. Oh, no you don't!

We New Yorkers have waited for TWENTY-FOUR YEARS for a progressive mayor. Now that we have one, you're not going to take him from us that quickly!

[NoOneMan]

15. The Hilllary fan club hates seeing the truth

They think she is the only viable candidate to prevent Republicans from winning, yet in reality, she isn't liked nor trusted. humans have a tendency to assume their personal views are more common in a population than they really are

[MannyGoldstein]

16. This is an astonishing result

I would never have guessed that it would be this lopsided. Something very, very interesting is going on.

[NoOneMan]

21. Warren appears genuine, honest and organic

Compared to wooden, rehearsed and well funded. The country will fall in love with her, and would be very lucky if she decided to run (no matter what may come of it).

[KittyWampus]

22. delete- you aren't worth it.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. I was put on Earth to

test your impulse control.

[Capt. Obvious]

59. "yeah, my guess is a lot of people most likely have you on ignore to avoid OP's such as this."

That must be why Manny's threads consistantly hit the top of the Greatest Page.

[winter is coming]

23. It's kind of late at night. Maybe the Hillary supporters aren't night owls. n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

38. Yeah-- over 50 people voted for Warren but...

thousands more just don't give a shit.

2014-- when we have to take back the House

[Gravitycollapse]

43. I think this is good evidence that DU is not necessarily a proper cross section of the electorate.

I doubt many outside of politically active leftist groups even know that Elizabeth Warren exists. In a contest where name recognition is unfortunately very important, I just don't think Warren could pull through. Granted, Obama wasn't exactly a household name before the 08 election cycle.

[MannyGoldstein]

53. I think that DU=Democratic Party

Only two years earlier.

The Third Way is finished.

The question to be answered is whether FDR Democrats can catch on with non-Democrats. I think we will.

[11 Bravo]

106. Manny, I have always found you to be politically perceptive (and funny as Hell)! But ...

if you believe that you, or I, or DU as a whole, is reflective of the Democratic Party at large, I may have to re-think at least one of those assessments.
Trust me, I wish you were right, but right now I'm just not seeing it.

[MannyGoldstein]

107. Did you read my message text?

We're a couple of years ahead of the rest of the party.

I think.

We'll see!

[Throd]

92. President Kucinich would disagree with you.

[Orsino]

69. Hardly.

Warren has been a DU favorite for quite a while, for saying things the big players and DLCers won't.

How could anyone not have foreseen this poll result?

[MannyGoldstein]

121. Well...

You're right!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251289203
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251294672
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251302259
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023378691
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023418580

But, when I posted my remark, it was running something like 75 to 1. The Clinton votes have come on strong since then.

[Orsino]

140. I guess the takeaway is:

We love Warren, but I guess we're gonna back Clinton anyway.

[Beacool]

70. Pot, meet the kettle.

She isn't liked nor trusted by who? The denizens of LW blogs? Despite all evidence to the contrary, they insist that her popularity is somehow non existent. Yet, she's ahead of her nearest potential rival (Biden) by 58%.

The LW Fan Club is the one who hates the truth.

Keep dreaming........

[NoOneMan]

72. This shows just how deeply people can fool themselves

The LW Fan Club is the one who hates the truth.

The poll results speak for themselves

[Beacool]

84. This site represents a minority within the party.

This place does not represent the real world.

[NoOneMan]

88. Yeah, that's why its being renamed Green Anarchy Underground!

DU has towed the line for Obama hand in hand with ordinary Democrats.

[11 Bravo]

109. FYI, it's "toed" the line. As in stood by it. We're not pulling it to another location.

[NoOneMan]

111. I know that!

I'm getting older and dumber. Thanks

[11 Bravo]

113. I don't doubt it, and I wasn't trying to be snarky. When I screw up ...

(and it seems to be happening more and more often) I hope someone points it out to me so I can stop doing it!

[winter is coming]

117. That would be the minority that is more likely to donate time and money and talk politics

with their friends than folks in the "real" world.

[Beacool]

119. Maybe so, but these creative posts don't reflect reality.

Last edited Fri Dec 20, 2013, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)

They only reflect what some of the denizens of DU feel, but not what the majority of Democrats are saying in poll after poll.

[winter is coming]

127. Three years before the election? It's a name-recognition contest.

Given how well her name is known, Hillary would be doomed if she weren't leading in those polls.

[brooklynite]

74. And the truth is...a group of liberal bloggers doesn't like her?

Bet she didn't see that coming.

[NoOneMan]

76. Oh, I thought that was her base, no?

Should we include right-wing bloggers too?

[brooklynite]

79. No, just pointing out the difference between the folks here...

...and ordinary Democratic voters who according to all polls strongly support her.

[NoOneMan]

82. Don't fool yourself into thinking DU is any exclusive and especially leftist group

It isn't special in any way from "ordinary Democratic voters" as far as ideology is concerned. If anything, DU posters may simply be more informed of news or informed at an earlier point in time.

More here may know of Elizabeth Warren. There is plenty of time for the ordinary Democratic voters to learn about her. It definitely seems there is significant reason to do so, based on this level of excitement.

[brooklynite]

89. Of course the reason NOT to do so is...she doesn't want to run.

Wouldn't you be better off finding a progressive who DOES want to run (I'm not sure Sanders falls into that category yet), rather than keep dreaming that Warren will change her mind?

[NoOneMan]

91. Hillary hasn't exactly declared to the world yet that she wants to run

Yet she is still the number 1 pick of 10% here. Give it up already! Focus on someone actually running already!

[brooklynite]

125. Ah, but here's the difference...

Neither Clinton or Warren has announced they're running. But.....

Clinton says she's thinking about it. Warren says she DOES NOT WANT TO RUN.

Supporters of Clinton are raising serious money and organizing thousands of volunteers to step in if she DOES decide to run. Supporters of Warren are...posting messages here saying they hope she'll change her mind.

[Beacool]

136. I honestly don't think that Liz Warren will run.

The kind of money needed to run a presidential campaign nowadays is tremendous (about a billion dollars). For me the most telling factor that she was serious about not running came when her biggest money man told prospective donors (who had contacted him after the article in New Republic appeared) that she had no intention to run. It makes perfect sense to me. She never has been in elected office and she may feel that she found a perfect niche where she can make a difference.

[Chan790]

132. The same as 2008.

Ordinary Democratic voters who according to all polls strongly supported her...until they were given a choice.

I think Manny's right...2 years from now, we'll be talking about the second Hillary collapse.

[LuvLoogie]

18. Pointless poll. They aren't running against each other, and...

...95% of those who would vote for one would vote for the other.

[scheming daemons]

54. this

[99Forever]

129. Says who?

Got ANY proof of that bullshit claim?

Post it.

[Cali_Democrat]

20. If I had to choose between the two at this point

I'd go for Warren.

I doubt very many DUers would choose Hillary over her.

[Nye Bevan]

24. What a strange poll, given that they have both said they are not running.

I mean, it's just about in the realms of possibility that one of these two might change her mind and decide to run. But both? Inconceivable.

[MannyGoldstein]

25. You may say I'm a dreamer.... nt

[Aerows]

32. And you are not the only one ... n/t

[daleanime]

34. I hope some day you'll join us....

[Aerows]

36. And the world will live as one :) n/t

[daleanime]

39. And with that beautiful hope...

its off to bed I go.

[Aerows]

41. Pleasant dreams, daleanime :)

may they all be beautiful and full of hope, peace and joy.

[treestar]

57. It's so far away that those who will be running in the primaries

are probably going to be people no one imagines now.

[LeftyMom]

26. Of the two I'd go with Warren by a mile,

although the little bit I've heard about her and foreign policy didn't seem promising. Still couldn't be worse than Hillary on that front.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

45. What foreign policy of Hillary's? Cozying up to foreign dictators who institute abusive policies against women?

I'll take Warren any day, someone who will stand up for women and the downtrodden all over the world.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Hillary. LOL...nt.

[Jesus Malverde]

29. Yo Manny

Thanks for keeping your eye on the ball while we're off duck hunting..

[Aerows]

30. Warren

No further questions, and not because she is a woman. Unless it was Warren or Sanders. Then it would be a Sanders/Warren ticket, but they can't because the are from the same state, so it's back to the drawing board.

Either Sanders or Warren.

Did you mention Hillary?



Oh.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Same state of mind, perhaps

But not the same state.

We're in a death match with VT over who gets to be the most Liberal state.

[Aerows]

33. Oh God, you are right

that was a stupid thing of me to say/think.

Then Sanders VT/Warren MA it is, for me. (I'm an idiot and forgot who was from where in New England). I'm from so far South we think Pennsylvania is part of New England.

[JDPriestly]

44. Are you forgetting California and Oregon, two very liberal states.

[MannyGoldstein]

63. Yeah, you could make an argument for them too.

CA and MA are probably the butt of most jokes in this regard.

[fbc]

35. Glad to see Hillary supporters aren't as numerous as many threads indicate.

[Beacool]

71. Maybe not on DU, but in the real world we are in the millions.

[fadedrose]

37. I think the polls run by the media are fixed...

HC can't be so far ahead that they say she is unbeatable...

She wouldn't win a vote in DU to be host of a group unless it's her own...

[Aerows]

40. I'm not voting for her

We need someone else. Martin O'Malley is a great place to start. I like him. And if we are reaching, hell, Wendy Davis. I like her more.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

46. Yes, like MOM too. Doing great things for Maryland. Future star!

[Aerows]

42. Warren/Davis

has a nice ring to it.

[Enthusiast]

47. The official narrative is deeply wounded.

The establishment will not tolerate such insolence.

[joshcryer]

48. She's the only one who so far can challenge her.

Unfortunately.

And Clinton destroys her in polls.

Hope Warren runs. Not sure I could fight harder for a candidate.

[davidpdx]

49. Right now neither

Though I'd lean toward Warren. We've been having this same tired old debate on DU for months now.

As I've said before, I maybe willing to wait longer into the actual primary cycle to support someone then I did back in 2008 election when I supported Obama a full year and a half before the GE.

[Scuba]

50. This isn't hard ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4202095

[joshcryer]

51. If Warren runs she will have my full support.

Clinton cannot go uncontested.

[Laelth]

52. k&r for Elizabeth Warren. n/t

-Laelth

[treestar]

55. 2014

Quit trying to divide Democrats over an election three years away. It is not primary season.

[MannyGoldstein]

58. Have you contacted the Ready for Hillary! people?

I'm sure they'd like to hear that they shouldn't be spending millions on their efforts.

As to dividing Democrats... Based on the results of this thread, it looks like there's great unity.

[treestar]

61. It's still three years away and Hillary has not declared

Those people are wasting their time.

[Iggo]

60. 2014.

[xchrom]

62. elizabeth. nt

[NuclearDem]

64. Elizabeth. No more Third Way bullshit.

[CFLDem]

65. Hillary brings Bill

No one can match that. Warren would be good for VP though.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. Well, that's OK...probably all the possible candidates have unsavory baggage besides Hillary.

[fbc]

66. K&R

[Orsino]

68. Well, given that Warren has ruled out running...

...that leaves us with Secretary Inevitable Dynasty.

She might well be Obama's third term, but given an electorate crying for progressive relief, she might dare to do more.

Warren? We need her in government, the higher up the better.

[MannyGoldstein]

81. So has Hillary

Several times.

[Beacool]

86. You know perfectly well that this week she told Barbara Walters that she's thinking about it.

Stop playing coy.

[MannyGoldstein]

100. Hmmm. So Hillary might change her mind, but Warren won't?

Interesting.

[Beacool]

120. Warren has been a senator for barely 10 months and never been in elected office.

There will be several people running, but I bet that one of them is not going to be Liz Warren.

[MannyGoldstein]

122. I guess there's no precedent for a first-term Senator running

You win, then.

[Beacool]

123. That's not a good analogy.

Obama had been a state senator for some years before running. Besides, this is not 2008. Lightning doesn't strike twice. In 2008 any Democrat would have won the WH after the Bush years, the wars and the economic downturn. We will have the reverse situation in 2016, since it's the Democrats who are now in power. Whether we will keep the WH will depend on the economic situation at the time and how well the ACA is working by then.

[MannyGoldstein]

137. One great thing in Warren's favor is that

she doesn't have the Third-Way baggage. She can credibly speak about change. She's actually effected quite a bit of change.

The economy cannot improve in any real way until we end the bipartisan love of austerity. What's a Third-Way candidate going to say: "Vote for me, I'll continue the same policies but this time it will work"? Doesn't seem like a winning pitch.

[Orsino]

141. Fuck, yeah.

One of the things I liked most about Obama was his lack of Washington experience. We know what that does to people.

[brooklynite]

73. Tick, tick tick...

Another week gone by...and you're no closer to having an actual effort to get Warren to change her mind, or to get a real progressive into the race than you were before.

But online polls are always fun.

[MannyGoldstein]

80. Hillary's said she's not running in 2016

Several times.

Any particular reason why you failed to mention *that*?

[JoePhilly]

94. Maybe because she said this the other day ...

In a Wednesday interview with ABC's Barbara Walters, who named the former first lady the "Most Fascinating Person of 2013," Clinton said she hadn't yet made up her mind on a presidential run. She assured Walters her announcement would come soon.

"Obviously, I will look carefully at what I think I can do and make that decision sometime next year," Clinton said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/hillary-clinton-2016-decision_n_4470539.html

That's definitely not a NO.

In fact, it sort of fits the pattern of some one who is not ready to announce just yet, but who does not want the donors who are currently giving money to her support groups to stop doing so.

Warren has actually said NO at a point in time at which it would impact early donors and support groups from setting up shop in caucus states.

[MannyGoldstein]

97. So Warren's "no" counts, but Hillary's doesn't?

Because Hillary then said "maybe"?

Interesting.

[JoePhilly]

101. Let me know when Warren says "maybe" ... lol.

[MannyGoldstein]

103. So Hillary running was laughable until 48 hours ago, then it wasn't.

Got it, Chief.

[JoePhilly]

104. Your desperation is what's laughable.

You've spent 2 days saying Hillary said she wasn't running even though she said she might.

I am enjoying your politically naive act.

[MannyGoldstein]

105. Sorry, I'm a little confused here. Help me out.

When does it count that a politician says they're not running, and when doesn't it count?

You're a very smart person and you "get" these things - I'm not so blessed and could appreciate a little help.

Thanks!

[JoePhilly]

108. I like this new "Politically Naive Manny" persona.

I'm guessing it gives you a way to still believe that Hillary won't run, and that Warren will.

And please, I'm sure you've watched plenty of politicians play the "guess if I'm running" game.

They start out with "No, not running". And many never leave that place.

But some, slowly shift. "It's unlikely", "Its not something I think about"

Then .. "I'll make that decision down the road."

So on. They hedge right up until they are ready to announce.

So far, Warren is still at "Not running", and Hillary has recently jumped to "I'll make that decision some time next year."

Hillary is thinking about it, and she's letting her donors know it. Warren, not so much.

So please, keep this new persona around ... he's hilarious.

[MannyGoldstein]

115. It's a vehicle for pointing out hypocrisy nt

[Liberalynn]

78. Elizabeth

is my first choice.

[SidDithers]

85. Kucinich!...nt

Sid

[Beacool]

87. Meanwhile, in the real world..........

With eyes on Hillary Clinton, Democrats fight to maintain digital edge

President Barack Obama’s team of 20-something data gurus gave him a major edge in 2008 and 2012 — and now they’re among the leading players in a quiet struggle for control of the Democratic data market in 2016.

The biggest prize, both symbolically and financially, is a spot on the growing team surrounding Obama’s 2008 rival: Hillary Clinton.

The 2016 presidential campaign will be Big Data’s biggest proving ground yet. Expect the savviest campaigns and their techies to surpass Obama’s vaunted 2012 effort, where data and analytics influenced everything from which fundraising emails went where and which ads aired when on different cable stations, to which doors got knocked and what the volunteer said when they opened.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/2016-digital-campaign-101180.html

[spin]

93. No more Clintons and no more Bushes. (n/t)

[Scurrilous]

95. Biden/ProSense

A Joe, a Pro, 2016.

[closeupready]

102. That would also be a fine ticket, IMO.

[ProSense]

118. Not unless

it's for Pres/VP of anonymous posters on the Internets.

Still, thanks.

[ProSense]

116. .

[Rowdyboy]

96. Elizabeth Warren says what she means and means what she says. She doesn't play coy

She isn't a typical politician. That's why I respect her so much. She isn't running for president no matter hard people try to delude themselves into believing otherwise. To imply that she's toying with us belittles her.

Hilary Clinton is going to run for president. Therefore, of the two, I vote for Hillary. Throw in Brian Schweitzer, Martin O'Malley and Sherrod Brown who actually might run and my answer might be different. But between a candidate who will run and a candidate who won't I'd prefer the one who will.

[arely staircase]

99. hillary or elizabeth regarding what? nt

[longship]

110. ...

[Beacool]

124. It's going to be a looooong three years...........

[longship]

131. And Warren has already said multiple times that she will fulfill her commitment to MA in the Senate!

And Hillary has said multiple times that she has not decided.

But that will not stop the DUlusionists who post dozens of these threads each week.

Meanwhile, Nov 2014 looms.

I will predict that they will be a Warren/Hillary poll posted here about 11PM on election night 2014, before results are final. Funny thing is that many DUers will still bother to vote.

Oh boy!

[Beacool]

133. 2014 won't be funny.

There are some Democratic senators who are in trouble. It won't matter much if we get a Democrat in the WH in 2016 if the Republicans control Congress. In the meantime, there are many threads on this type. They are not helpful. They only serve the purpose to irritate and divide.

[dipsydoodle]

114. No way will Hillary ever be Queen in the UK.

[Reformed Bully]

126. 2016 Obama - Biden

Michelle & Jill

[99Forever]

128. Not even close.

I won't vote for any Turd Way, Corporatist, DINO ever again, ESPECIALLY Hillary Clinton.

[bigwillq]

130. Warren (nt)

[JI7]

135. i would like WArren but this poll means Hillary will probably easily win the nomination

[blue14u]

138. What about a

write in vote for Warren? Is that possible?

btw, love this poll...

[LuvLoogie]

139. Some of you guys sound like drunken redneck gear heads arguing Chevy vs Mopar

[yuiyoshida]

142. I always liked

Barbara Boxer..



Since its pretty sure Elizabeth refuses to run..

[pnwmom]

143. Do you have any idea how little any tiny self-selected poll means? n/t