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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Battle Within the Democratic Party
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/the-battle-within-the-democratic-party/282235/***SNIP
The tangled legacy Obama will leave his party underlies many of the current disagreements raging within the Democratic coalition. The populist-centrist split, which revolves around how much taxes ought to rise on the wealthy and whether Social Security and Medicare benefits ought to be curtailed, is only the beginning. Education reform is another point of contention: Teachers unions loathe the pro-charter-school policies embraced by Obamas education department and many Democratic elites. Obamas tough approach to national security and civil liberties has alienated many of the progressives who supported him as an antiwar candidate in 2008; his abortive push for intervention in Syria began the slide in his approval rating that continues today. Environmentalists continue to pressure the administration not to approve the Keystone XL pipeline. Important Democratic constituencies such as Latinos and unions feel badly let down by the Obama presidency and are kept in the tent only by the conviction that Republicans are even worse.
Most Democrats assume that, given the electorates increasing diversity and Republican dysfunction, the party still has a winning handand they may be right. If Hillary Clinton seeks the partys nomination, she might go virtually unopposed, her effortless coronation obviating any divisive intra-party debates. So much for the great Democratic soul-searching.
Its the usual inside-the-Beltway panic by the Democrats, Howard Dean, the progressive former Vermont governor and former Democratic National Committee chairman, told me. My advice is to get a grip. Theres nothing voters dislike more than cowering. We should punch back.
The partys current doldrums, and the prospect of a spate of losses next year, have some party leaders warning Democrats not to get complacent. Even the most bullish Obama supporters acknowledge that the party cannot afford to take its current advantages for granted. I dont think we should move forward with a false sense of security that Republicans are so out of the mainstream that they could never win, Obama strategist David Axelrod told me. It behooves the Democratic Party to continue to advance new ideas.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Otherwise the party is just like the Republican one, recycling stale, proven nonworking ideas.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)you know, the ones that worked.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Last polling I checked showed that Hillary is viewed favorable by 80-90% of self identified Democrats.
There is no battle. There is wishful thinking in some corners for a battle by those who only hang out with likeminded people and think everyone thinks as they do. There is no battle in 2016 if Hillary runs.
FarPoint
(12,368 posts)It will indeed be Hillary for 2016. There may be some challengers....to keep things stimulated regarding attention and fundraising....otherwise...it will be Hillary.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Deal?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Your responses are always the same.
I wasnt saying Hillary was inevitable in 2006. I was supporting Obama. I was right then, and I am right now.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The fact that you're falling for it this time doesn't change history.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)#1 - There is no national figure who has nearly the gravitas Obama did at the same point in the campaign
#2 - Hillary now has experience at the national level in historically the second most powerful position in the government where in 2006 she was still a freshman senator.
#3 - 2006-2008 presented a contest of two potential firsts. First African American President vs First Woman President. In 2016 Hillary will have the "first" position all to herself. The idea of the first woman president will put tremendous energy behind her campaign as if it needed it.
You have an argument that is meant for 2006-2008 and you have not updated it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)#1: Obama was very much playing the role of the junior senator from IL. His only "national figure" element was the 2004 speech. You are conflating 2006 and 2008.
#2: Because Hillary didn't do anything before being a senator. .
Then there's the wee problem that your claim in #1 is that a freshman senator was a massive national figure. If being only a "freshman senator" was such a massive handicap, it would have been an equal problem for Obama. Heck, it would be a greater problem, because Clinton could spin her time as First Lady as experience. Meanwhile, Obama could only claim to have made a good speech.
#3: "First" doesn't win an election. If it did, Dukakis would have won - first female VP. So would a whole lot of other women and minorities who lost various elections. "First" as winning strategy is lazy media coverage. Reporters don't have to bother researching beyond the genetialia and skin tone of the winner to figure out why they won.
You have an argument that contradicts itself multiple times, and then treats elections as a reality TV show.
And it's the same inevitability argument that failed in 2008, with minor updates. Which in itself is really dumb - "This time it's inevitable! Just forget about the last time we declared it inevitable!"
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Kind of odd if they are so wonderful and overwhelming.....
rustbeltvoice
(430 posts)One of the nonsense lies that has too much currency in the country is the claim that the president or any other member of the Democracy is a far left liberal/socialist/communist. The Democracy of 1936 was more liberal than practically any elected or appointed member of the federal government.
n.b.: We should return to the ancient practice of calling the Democratic Party, the Democracy.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)...a word from a zombie asshole.
Why does it seem that the DLC-types are more excited about this so-called "battle." In fact, it almost seems that they're the ones pushing it. They launched the attacks on Elizabeth Warren.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)No more wars or free trade deals.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)BS in.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)all access points. But today, social media renders them impotent. If Warren wanted to put up a run for the White House, she could, and no "party leader' could stop her. I am now in Hillary Clinton's camp, but if Clinton doesn't run, I want to see Warren as our standard bearer. Either would make a wonderful President, I lean toward Clinton because the "pillow talk" that she can gain from Bill Clinton would be invaluable to her and the country, it helps that he has been there and understand the pitfalls.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)It behooves the Democratic Party to continue to advance new ideas" he's talking about more of the same centrist corporate-cozy bullshit the Democratic Party Bosses are currently engaging in.
How about going back to the old ideas which worked just fine for 40 years -- being a voice for the poor and the middle class. There's a thought.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)If the country stays out of wars, there is more money to do other things, like fund education and infrastructure repair.
The conditions of the future won't be like those of the past, anyone who think they will is dealing in delusion. Our nation used to be the pre-eminent manufacturer in the world, those days are gone and will never come back. Why should a citizen of Vietnam, China, India, ect, expect to live a lesser life than we expect to live? Young people born today will face completion for jobs and wealth from young children that are born in other countries.
Income inequality will be a big problem for all countries. The issue facing democracies will be how to close income inequality gaps and provide a good standard of living for all their citizens. The rich absolutely must be willing to do their part in that effort, but the less fortunate also must utilize the added income coming to them in the most efficient manner. Governments must spend every dollar in the wisest, most efficient manner.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The answer is not some military need or social catastrophe which must be addressed with the U.S. military. The answer is because the MIC makes humongous contributions directly to candidates and millions through PACs. There's a price that must be paid when you are accepting unlimited funds from the corporations, namely, you gotta dance with them that brung ya.
You speak about manufacturing. Why did manufacturing leave the U.S.? NAFTA. A Republican idea that was adapted by President Clinton. Corporations are now not only free to, but are given TAX CREDITS to ship jobs overseas wherein there is no minimum wage, no age limits to the workers, no workers rights and no environmental protection laws. That all became possible from a Third-Way "Democratic" president.
Lastly, you speak of income inequality. The Democratic Party began diassociating itself with the unions a long time ago. President Obama has carried on from the Bush administration as a champion of charter schools, school vouchers and pretty much abandoned the teachers' unions. The TPP will complete dismantling what's left of the American worker (among MANY other things) and this president, along with the virtually anointed Democratic nominee for 2016 are it's champions.
The conditions of the future are VERY MUCH like the past. We've had these periods in our own history wherein the wealthy were accorded unlimited privilege in finance, in law and in legislation. We've broken that stranglehold before and we can break it again. What we DON'T do is try to make nice with the same entities that put us here in the first place. What we do is unite and elect representatives who represent us and not the corporations which means no more Third-Way DINO's. All that does is continue the status quo. Well, guess what? The status quo isn't working for 99% of us. So we need to do something else and that something else is to go back to what worked -- fighting for the 99%.
Proud Public Servant
(2,097 posts)First-world tax rates, support for unions, broad public subsidies for higher education -- just three of the "old ideas" that made postwar America a prosperous society that could pass on an even better life to its children.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)No, they won because people were sick of trickle-down and Reaganomics way back in 1992. That said, the Democratic Party didn't give the voters what they wanted. Out of fear of the shadow of Ronald Reagan, many Democrats have (for years) continued Reagan's policies. That trend, mercifully, appears to be waning.
-Laelth
Proud Public Servant
(2,097 posts)They also won because the GOP managed to demonize the very term "liberal" -- and (per Dr. Dean) we didn't punch back hard enough (in part because our "brethren" in the DLC weren't punching back at all).
Laelth
(32,017 posts)The right controls the media. The left is silenced. I refuse to blame liberals for that. I do, however, blame Democratic collaborators.
-Laelth
spanone
(135,832 posts)kentuck
(111,095 posts)What battle??
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)Quote from article:
" Centrists fear that liberals will drive the party out of the American mainstream with their talk of income redistribution and political correctness."
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Why, just look at how massive the blue dog coalition is in Congress now!!!
(For those unaware, the blue dogs were pretty much annihilated, while the "crazy liberals" did fine.)
KoKo
(84,711 posts)msongs
(67,405 posts)rustbeltvoice
(430 posts)In 1964 Barry Goldwater was considered, and shown to be, too extreme of a conservative. Read and think about that for a moment.
To-day Barry Goldwater, if he was allowed to be a public Republican, would be the most liberal Republican.
Now look at the population of the nation in 1964, and to-day.
Why should the Democratic Party want to appeal to to to-day's Republican?
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Even the pollsters quoted within the article agree that most Democrats are on the same page as Warren.
Fucking stupid. The GOP are the ones trying to rebrand. The business centers of power are in a full force struggle to rip the levers of the party back away from the suicide bombers like Ted Cruz.