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Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 03:40 PM Jan 2014

Scientific American: How Our Brains Turn Women Into Objects


Recent reports of a mountain lion or cougar stalking the campus of the University of Iowa prompted campus jokesters to tweet their surprise that Michelle Bachman was in town. A cougar, colloquially, is an attractive older woman who seeks out trysts with younger men, and to some, it seems that Bachmann fits the bill. This emphasis on appearance is nothing new for high-profile women who are anything but homely, and feminist scholars are quick to point out its potential detrimental effects on perceptions of female competence.

Of course, we don’t need to consider reactions to political candidates to understand this idea. There is a well-known tension between seeing someone as, and appreciating them for, a body as opposed to a mind. At least, that’s what parents tell their daughters when their school clothes veer too far towards the revealing.

Science has backed parents up on this. A recent study found that showing men pictures of sexualized women evokes less activity in areas of the brain responsible for mental state attribution—that is, the area of the brain that becomes active when we think we are looking at an entity capable of thought and planned action. Other studies have found similar results. When men see body shots of women as compared with face shots, they judge women to be less intelligent, likeable, ambitious and competent.

A new study by Kurt Gray and colleagues in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, however, suggests that this kind of objectification might not cause perceivers to see women as mindless bodies but instead cause a transformation in the kind of minds that they perceive.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-our-brains-turn-women-into-objects
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Scientific American: How Our Brains Turn Women Into Objects (Original Post) Katashi_itto Jan 2014 OP
This should be interesting. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #1
Actually I really have no opinion. But at the same time there was just so much being flung about Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #2
on a personal basis it depends if i see them as a viable sexual experience or not. loli phabay Jan 2014 #8
I look at things the same way too. It becomes dependent also if this is a professional or social Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #11
The research does not say brains turn women into objects BainsBane Jan 2014 #3
Does porn change the way women view men? davidn3600 Jan 2014 #15
The way our mass media works is a HUGE part of the problem. hunter Jan 2014 #4
I would point out I used the exact photo from scientific American Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #7
Yes, I looked at the article too. hunter Jan 2014 #9
Agree! Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #10
I think it goes back to gender roles davidn3600 Jan 2014 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #6
I don't think that's true at all. What goes on between consenting adults is none of my business... hunter Jan 2014 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #18
Our current mass market "consumer" society alienates people and mass media fills the void. hunter Jan 2014 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #20
It's human nature to belong to a class or tribe. hunter Jan 2014 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #27
The wild west women of my family determined that. hunter Jan 2014 #28
I'm not sure what it is you think you're bragging about, here, but good for you and your family! Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #29
I'm not bragging about nothing. hunter Jan 2014 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #31
I can still be critical of mass media. hunter Jan 2014 #32
You can, indeed. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #33
I am not wading into this Vietnam, but I predict 200 replies... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #12
i doubt you would get any odds if you tried laying a bet. loli phabay Jan 2014 #13
:) Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #14
Changes in context prompts changes in perception. rrneck Jan 2014 #17
Are you sure you're not confusing us with gorgons? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #21
? Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #22
Turning people into objects is a traditional attribute of gorgons, like Medusa. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #23
clever. loli phabay Jan 2014 #24
ahhh ok, nice one! Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #25

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
1. This should be interesting.
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 03:44 PM
Jan 2014

(I would use the popcorn smilie, but apparently that's unacceptable in threads about some topics.)

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
2. Actually I really have no opinion. But at the same time there was just so much being flung about
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 03:46 PM
Jan 2014

by several sides. So I dug up actual information.
I simply am examining how I view women on a personal basis.

 

loli phabay

(5,580 posts)
8. on a personal basis it depends if i see them as a viable sexual experience or not.
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 06:22 PM
Jan 2014

for the former the criteria is much stricter. so my starting point is there and if they are outside the parameters then i look at them differently.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
11. I look at things the same way too. It becomes dependent also if this is a professional or social
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jan 2014

relationship

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
3. The research does not say brains turn women into objects
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 03:52 PM
Jan 2014

that's complete bullshit. This is the abstract of the article in which the researchers publish their findings:


According to models of objectification, viewing someone as a body induces de-mentalization, stripping
away their psychological traits. Here evidence is presented for an alternative account, where a body focus
does not diminish the attribution of all mental capacities but, instead, leads perceivers to infer a different
kind of mind. Drawing on the distinction in mind perception between agency and experience, it is found
that focusing on someone’s body reduces perceptions of agency (self-control and action) but increases
perceptions of experience (emotion and sensation). These effects were found when comparing targets
represented by both revealing versus nonrevealing pictures (Experiments 1, 3, and 4) or by simply
directing attention toward physical characteristics (Experiment 2). The effect of a body focus on mind
perception also influenced moral intuitions, with those represented as a body seen to be less morally
responsible (i.e., lesser moral agents) but more sensitive to harm (i.e., greater moral patients; Experiments
5 and 6). These effects suggest that a body focus does not cause objectification per se but, instead, leads
to a redistribution of perceived mind.
Keywords: morality, dehumanization, pornography, dualism, sexism


http://www.mpm.umd.edu/Gray,%20Knobe,%20Sheskin,%20Bloom%20&%20Barrett.%20(in%20press).%20Objectification.pdf

What this shows is exactly what some members here have argued against in the past couple of months: that view pictures of bodies increases the tendency of men to see women as objects, that exposure to porn decreases their sense that women have agency.
It shows how commercial images of bodies reconfigures the mind in ways that lead men to devalue women (see them as "less morally responsible.&quot

From the article the OP links to: A new study by Kurt Gray and colleagues in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, however, suggests that this kind of objectification might not cause perceivers to see women as mindless bodies but instead cause a transformation in the kind of minds that they perceive.

Research into mind perception has found two dimensions along which we tend to categorize others: agency (the capacity to act, plan) and experience (the capacity to feel emotions). A robot, for example, is high on the dimension of agency but low in experience. It can think, but it can’t feel. When we see flesh, on the other hand, we tend to see experience but not agency—an entity capable of pleasure and pain but not necessarily the sharpest or most useful tool in the shed.

So, objectification might not lead to perceptions of women as inanimate objects but as different kinds of humans—ones that are capable of feeling but not thinking. To test this hypothesis Gray et al. presented participants with images of individuals and varied the amount of flesh shown in the pictures (the amount of “body focus”). In line with their hypothesis, seeing full bodies, as compared to just faces, caused ratings of agency to diminish but ratings of experience to increase. The same was true when naked bodies were compared with clothed bodies. Indeed, as the sexual suggestiveness of the images increased, perceptions of agency decreased and perceptions of experience increased accordingly.


Porn and other images of women remap the brain. It changes how the viewers see the object of their lust.
 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
15. Does porn change the way women view men?
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 06:59 PM
Jan 2014

If a man takes his clothes off in front of a woman, does she see him as less intelligent and less competent? Is that image "remapping" her brain?

There are studies that suggest 40% of internet porn is watched by women, either watching by themselves or with a partner.

hunter

(38,311 posts)
4. The way our mass media works is a HUGE part of the problem.
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 05:11 PM
Jan 2014

Images of "sexy" made-up photoshopped women are used to sell stuff. Hell, look at the plastic looking woman you put in this post. Who really looks like that? Nobody. And the current fashions in make-up, hair, photoshopping, clothing, and even nudity change too, in an ever-shifting impossible "standard" of "beauty" that damages the self-esteem of girls who will never look like that, and warps the sex drives of adolescent (and sadly, fully adult...) boys in ways that are demeaning to women in general.

I can respect the effort that goes into achieving a certain look, but I don't like the way it's used to sell stuff, even in the case of an article like this.

I'm fortunate to have grown up in a matriarchal family of strong assertive athletic women, and I'll be honest, my own kids grew up in such a family. Any male who didn't respect women, or who looked upon women as "objects" was in deep, deep trouble.

Teaching one's self to see all people as people first, and to see the beauty in all people, is not impossible.

Movies and television would be a lot better too if producers chose people more for their acting abilities and not for their physical appearances. A movie or television show with excellent actors is timeless, a movie or television show where (the women especially) were chosen primarily because they met the current "standards" of beauty or fit a certain stereotype, not for their acting abilities, these shows go stale very quickly.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
7. I would point out I used the exact photo from scientific American
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 06:07 PM
Jan 2014

Nothing in the article was altered putting it here.

hunter

(38,311 posts)
9. Yes, I looked at the article too.
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 06:24 PM
Jan 2014

It makes sense to post it here too, but it's also demonstrates how these sorts of images propagate throughout our culture.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
5. I think it goes back to gender roles
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 05:31 PM
Jan 2014

Men focus on women's physical appearance the same way women tend to focus on a man's stability and confidence. Why? Because it's how we fit into our gender roles. It goes back to the roots of patriarchy.

Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

hunter

(38,311 posts)
16. I don't think that's true at all. What goes on between consenting adults is none of my business...
Thu Jan 9, 2014, 01:52 AM
Jan 2014

... so long as nobody is exploited or abused.

I'd advise my own kids, nephews, and nieces against certain sorts of relationships, but safe sex is something we teach early in our family. By the time a kid is interested in sex and has the opportunity, clandestine or not, there are no mysteries, no accidents.

I'm not going to tell an 18+ year old what kind of sex they should and shouldn't enjoy. By the time they leave for college I trust they know everything they need to know to protect themselves from hazardous sexual relationships.

I don't remember not knowing where babies came from or that people enjoyed sex. My dad's an artist, my mom's his muse. My mom was also a telephone hotline crisis counselor. My mom has heard EVERYTHING. Her childhood daycare providers were hookers, and her mom and dad were hard drinking, hard partying shipyard welders during World War II. Her dad once took her to meet " target="_blank">Sally Rand and my mom got to hang out backstage with the rest of the ladies.

Good sex education protected me from creepy child-molesting adults. As a kid I escaped without harm two encounters like that. My knowledge about sex probably acted as a kind of force field against creeps who manipulate kids. There was no fear, shame, guilt, or ignorance in me that would have caused me to keep any secrets for a child molester. I'd have told my parents and then someone in our family would have removed the molester from free society, one way or another. (The berserker genes are strong in my family which is why we must be pacifists, striving to work within the law and order of a peaceful society.)

As a teen my mom was considering life as a nun but she encountered a creepy leering priest and decided to find a husband and have a lot of kids instead. Which she did. The sacrament of marriage and all...

I'm sometimes astonished by what people find sexually attractive. I myself do not understand BDSM, high heel shoes, lipstick, or shaving anything, especially delicate parts. I can't remember the last time I touched a razor, I'd have to go through our photo albums. Early 'nineties maybe, and it was probably for some job where I was expected to wear a necktie and shined shoes no good for running too. (The world of commerce is a freakish place.)

But that's neither here no there. Mass-media "standards of beauty" have never been my own. If others appreciate them fine. But everyone ought to have the opportunity to find their own place and not be part of mass media dictated crowd that is often hostile and demeaning to women.

When Star Trek, the original series came out I had a very serious crush on Nyota Uhura. It was not something I could talk about among my Ivory Soap white school peers. Uhura knew electronics!

Imagine my disappointment when I got to college as an engineering major and there would be two women in the class, one who didn't find me attractive, and one I'd fought with.

So I changed my major to biology. By the late 'seventies the women already outnumbered the men in that major at my college. When my wife and I got married we were both biology teachers.

All of this is why I am extremely critical of mass-media. It's a terrible place for a kid to learn about sex. The "real world" of humanity is a much richer place. Mass media disconnects people from that. The flood of images is unreal.

Response to hunter (Reply #16)

hunter

(38,311 posts)
19. Our current mass market "consumer" society alienates people and mass media fills the void.
Thu Jan 9, 2014, 01:57 PM
Jan 2014

I've no doubts at all about that.

Fashion, even fashion in pornography, is driven by large corporations that strive to sell the most stuff to the most people.

What's "in" yesterday is "out" tomorrow. Buy more stuff.

Some people will always be too far outside the mainstream in the "look" they find attractive to be influenced by fashion mass-media, but yes, people who want to "fit in" will pay close attention to fashion and they will buy stuff to achieve the current look, even harmful things like fad diets or foot-deforming shoes.

Everyone ought to think a bit about the origins of the "look" they find sexually attractive.

I've examined the origins of the look I find attractive, and yes, it probably was programmed into me by the community I existed in, a community that was largely oblivious to mass-media fashion. I met my dates on the university crew team, during long term rough camping digging-in-the-dirt scientific field work, and in science, medical, or computer labs. It was also a community of random jump-in-a-lake-river-ocean casual nudity. Maybe as a consequence of that exposure the women in Playboy magazine simply looked strange to me. Hugh Hefner's "turn-ons" had little in common with my own. But his magazine certainly did "program" a lot of people and caused some harm to young women who were never going to look like that.

I'd say the same about the Maxim, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit, Cosmo, and other mass-media of today. It's not that they avoid unattractive people, they are in fact selling a "standard" of attractiveness along with a whole lot of consumer goods and services.

Response to hunter (Reply #19)

hunter

(38,311 posts)
26. It's human nature to belong to a class or tribe.
Thu Jan 9, 2014, 08:08 PM
Jan 2014

"Flappers" was definitely a mass media thing. My great aunt was working in Hollywood at the time.

Mass media plays on this human nature, using it as a market tool.

I imagine you are very selective in your own use of media and don't say crass things about women. The typical youtube or porn site commenter, not so much...

Mass media is not driven by culture these days, Mass media is our culture. The only progress we've made is that people who don't fit into the common culture can more easily find or create their own niches of culture. But the malleable young person isn't going to find those right away. They'll be directed into a Victoria's Secret Macho Frat Boy world.

Go to youtube, search for something like "sexy swimsuit" and then tell me you disagree...


Response to hunter (Reply #26)

hunter

(38,311 posts)
28. The wild west women of my family determined that.
Thu Jan 9, 2014, 10:06 PM
Jan 2014

This is my nicest, least threatening, great grandma and the only one I never met:



She could write and shoot better than me and stare a mean horse or nasty man down. Situations I run away from. Especially mean horses. Mean horses frighten me. I have psychic scars. Several nieces carry on the family tradition, same with my wife. The boys in our family tend to pay more attention to art and machines.

My dad's an artist. His dad was a rocket scientist. My grandpa knew titanium. He was an engineer for the Apollo project, probably his proudest achievement. Some of his metalwork is in the Smithsonian. During War II he was the handsome captain who could get scientific and celebrity misfits deemed essential to the war effort out of jail. A driver, a big black car with flags, an impeccable Army Air Force uniform... these always impressed the local authorities and there would be nothing in the newspaper about it.

I've got a sister who is a firefighter and paramedic. She nearly made an Olympic team. She writes better than me too. And was an NBA basketball "girl" as a side job. Mass media "hot" in pictures only. Btoo man-scary for mass media celebrity.

My wife is a powerful woman too.

There is no precise yardstick.

Lust may be the first spark, but being the gentleman or gentlewoman and establishing a relationship is the next step.

Trapped by or servicing a perpetual state of mass-media driven lust is not a nice world to live in.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
29. I'm not sure what it is you think you're bragging about, here, but good for you and your family!
Thu Jan 9, 2014, 10:17 PM
Jan 2014

Yet you haven't clarified any of your assertions, such as they are.


Trapped by or servicing a perpetual state of mass-media driven lust is not a nice world to live in.


And neenershnucking constantly in a furious orange state of flammerhatzitudinous warblegunkdom is pretty hargumble, too.

Response to hunter (Reply #30)

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
12. I am not wading into this Vietnam, but I predict 200 replies...
Wed Jan 8, 2014, 06:37 PM
Jan 2014

Easy. Grabbing popcorn and a fire extinguisher.

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