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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsProsecutors: This wasn't the first blow-up for Florida theater shooter Curtis Reeves
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1(CNN) -- A few weeks before a texting dispute turned deadly inside a Florida theater, suspect Curtis Reeves had another run-in with a moviegoer, prosecutors said.
During Reeves' first court appearance on Tuesday, prosecutors said they had heard from another theater patron who said the 71-year-old former Tampa cop saw her texting and "glared at her the entire time throughout the movie" during a screening about three weeks ago.
When the woman got up to use the restroom, Reeves followed her and "made her very uncomfortable," prosecutors said.
CNN affiliate WTSP later identified the woman as Jamira Dixon of Wesley Chapel, the Tampa suburb where Monday's shooting took place.
snip
it isn't necessary to have a phone on at ALL times.
Up until the 1990s, most of humanity did just fine having phones that plugged into walls and no ability to send texts.
If it is that important, maybe people should go take care of that business BEFORE they go to the movies.
You cannot convince me that you absolutely MUST have a phone on at ALL times.
If it's about your kids, then go take care of your kids and rent a movie to watch with them.
I dunno, people have zero class or concept that there are other people in this world.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)FatBuddy
(376 posts)if I go into a movie theater, I power down the phone. That way I don't ruin anyone else's enjoyment and I can increase my own.
I thought he was attacked by someone at least 40 years younger than him?
I don't keep up with this stuff.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)You should probably post some pro Warren stuff so your cred doesn't fall below an eighth of a tank
FatBuddy
(376 posts)If you want to discuss ideas, that's fine.
If you want to make passive aggressive snipes about my low post count, I can't really do anything for you.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)I'm here to help you! But first.......
We have to make a Junk Food Sushi Cone!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)People texting while driving pisses me off, in a movie is perhaps a bit rude but it's not threatening someone's life.
Even TWD doesn't rise to the level of needing to be shot to death on the spot though I think.
Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)
Post removed
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)Nicely done! Death penalty for being an asshole!
FatBuddy
(376 posts)if you want to be a tough guy, you have to accept tough guy results.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)Death penalty for throwing popcorn in your world. OK.
If only the ex-cop had been armed with popcorn instead of a 38 all that would have happened is the minimum wage cleanup guys would have gotten butter on their shoes.
FatBuddy
(376 posts)all i am saying is that there are consequences to actions. You get what you give. If you assault people in public, don't be surprised at some point if someone shoots you.
IS THAT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND or are you all children?
I don't have a dog in this race, and I don't live for this stuff like some of you folks do.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)some degree of appropriateness. You suggest that--apparently--ANY consequence should be expected.
I suggest that consequences, even the expected version, should be appropriate to the situation.
And who is the child here?
riqster
(13,986 posts)The shooter went and got the usher. That is how you're supposed to do it. Appropriate.
Then he decided to kill the texter. Not in any way appropriate.
By the way-I have gone for ushers when other moviegoers have behaved inappropriately. If the usher did not address the situation, I went to the manager for a refund. Nobody died from my annoyance.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)you should expect that you may be shot!
This is how fucked up gunners and the gun culture has made us!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)It isn't even clear what happened with the popcorn. You picked a strange way to flame out.
Response to pintobean (Reply #32)
Post removed
RockaFowler
(7,429 posts)There has been nothing mentioned of poking
But I see that you love to support this gun-loving fool - wonder why??
pintobean
(18,101 posts)NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)while firing at her husband, is that also assault?
riqster
(13,986 posts)She had it coming for marrying that texting bastard. Consequences.
(Seriously: I can't believe anyone is really blaming the victim or defending the murderer. Much less both. Bizarre.)
billh58
(6,635 posts)defenders on DU, so this is not at all surprising. Welcome to the most armed and dangerous society in the "civilized" world.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Funny, you sound JUST LIKE someone else that posts here...my my my...no doubt you will be back, you gun humpers cannot STAND it when reality shines a light on people like yourself, so you come here...say some stupid shit...and get banned again and again!
Don't any of you realize how fucking stupid and pathetic you look making up lies to play CYA for a gun humping murderer?
Anyways...no doubt you will be back, your type are like moths to a flame...sad unthinking creatures that react reflexively to certain stimuli...kinda like an insect.
I'm no bug! Now watch me blow my nuts off!
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)That is a separate issue, of course.
Nobody should get shot for it, of course! But they should be thrown out of the theater without getting their money back.
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)Still rude, but not interrupting the movie yet?
And who the hell gets all murderously ragey for someone texting? Tell them to knock it off. If they don't, get a manager and/or a refund.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Same thing goes for talking during the movie.
If you can't immerse yourself in the experience of being at the movies, watch them at home.
Of course I do agree withe rest of your post and this is not a defense in the slighest of the murderer.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)I am stunned by the well sure killing the guy was wrong but that darned texting is annoying comments.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Time for the next big thing.
rickford66
(5,523 posts)A bit much I believe.
Response to rickford66 (Reply #3)
Post removed
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)NOBODY on the goddamned planet would be alive...
Get off your high horse...
Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #16)
Post removed
RockaFowler
(7,429 posts)Again I see the gun-crew blaming the victim
You do realize that someone is dead for TEXTING. He was TEXTING before the movie. The lights are still on in the theatre at that time. Who the hell was he bothering?? The shooter was a loose-cannon and the fact that you are blaming the person who died is abhorrent and reckless - just like the shooter!!!
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)After bankrupting his family with legal fees.
But that's just me.
Gothmog
(145,173 posts)This guy is going to do time unless he is found to be incompetent. There is pattern here and the judge has already denied bail for this idiot.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)After all, you are pissing assholish essence all over this thread.
Or does that not count because it's you and not some nameless stranger?
(And to the persons who are responding to the alert on this post, no I'm not really threatening him. I'm attempting to show where this utterly stupid philosophy leads)
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)malaise
(268,968 posts)Enough with the fugging guns already.
FatBuddy
(376 posts)I'm actually afraid that I would probably use it.
The only purpose of a gun is to kill things.
I don't want to kill things. I want to be a man of peace, through whom the milk of spiritual creaminess flows.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)FatBuddy
(376 posts)keep chugging along, champ!
And in a state where an individual has the right to carry a concealed weapon into a movie theater ... texters should expect to be shot to death.
We can only hope that the shooter's courage in exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and the right to watch a movie without the annoyance of nearby texters will mean more 'class' amongst all movie-goers in the future.
: :
FatBuddy
(376 posts)and the real world where grown ups live.
Grown ups put other first and think of other people's comfort before their own.
Grown ups don't throw popcorn at their elders.
Grown ups realize the world is filled with evil people, with stupid people, and evil stupid people.
Grown ups act accordingly.
You have to cover your own ass.
Sorry, that's just the way it is. WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.
mercuryblues
(14,531 posts)A man ran a stop sign if I hadn't noticed he would have t-boned me and totaled out my car...should I have shot him?
On Monday a red light malfunctioned and stayed red. Leaving me stuck in a line of traffic for 0 minutes...should I have shot it?
On Tuesday, I went to a store to order carpet, their printer wouldn't work and the guy was as slow as molasses...should I have shot him?
Life is full of little annoyances, if a person does not have the capacity to rationally deal with them, they should not be carrying a gun.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Seriously, I am shaking my head. What a big steaming pile.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)They do not tell strangers what to do in public places, they do not take it upon themselves to be hall-monitors, they do not act like officious jerks.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)The hall monitors got two of his posts hidden.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)I recommend termination with extreme prejudice.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)He's frozen from posting more crap until admin reviews his activity. I like this new feature.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Skinner's reason - Previously banned
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=309559&sub=trans
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Shame, I rather liked that last one, the fatbuddy's "assholish essence" statement was truly sublime.
Kudos to Skinner for a speedy dispatch.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)malaise
(268,968 posts)Gothmog
(145,173 posts)I am glad that the grownups are dealing with shooter in the proper manner. Charging the shooter with second degree murder is appropriate and is the denial of bail for the shooter. The shooter is the one with issues and the grownups in the system will deal with him.
Rex
(65,616 posts)SO what does that say about a person that shoots and kills another person over a text message? Don't worry, I know you cannot answer because you are a NRA troll that is banned, again.
When you come back, please let us know so we can pick right back up on this pathetic conversation you seem to be having with yourself!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I suppose it would make sense in Ayn Randland. After all it's all about the person whose rights are being infringed upon by that scum texter.
What planet do you come from btw?
FatBuddy
(376 posts)Cool posts bros!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)cool post
countingbluecars
(4,766 posts)for gun control.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)under a bridge I think I sense it in that one.
FatBuddy
(376 posts)PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)during previews before the movie starts? I believe this was the case. After previews you are told to power off...
FatBuddy
(376 posts)people are there to see the movie, not my device.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Paladin
(28,254 posts)Lex
(34,108 posts)either. So pathetic to focus on the phone for God's sake.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Shampoobra
(423 posts)It's difficult, when some guy is picking his nose, driving with his blinker on, or texting in a theater, to keep from pulling out your gun and just blasting the feckless motherfucker right into hell where he belongs.
But then I met Jesus, and He told me to stop killing people with zero class. He said that putting up with someone who wants to text during a movie's previews is simply my cross to bear. It's made me a better person.
jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)But I won't gun down a family over it.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Reeves was just itching, burning for his opportunity to "send a message" to society...
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)maybe some people need to wake up to the fact that a lot of people out there, for various reasons, are walking right on the edge and it doesn't necessarily take a lot to push them over the edge.
So if you deliberately do something that you (should) know aggravates *everybody* around you, (say, for example, texting during a movie so as to spoil the movie for everyone in your vicinity) don't be surprised when people are upset with you and some give you dirty looks. Just be grateful that none of them happens to be a nut with a gun and anger management or mental health issues. And if one of the people to whom you are being rude, inconsiderate and disrespectful turns out to be a nut with a gun, expect you may pay for your rude behavior with your life.
While I will tolerate rude behavior during the coming attractions, I'm personally done with the movie theater because of the rude assholes who deliberately ruin the movie for everybody who actually wants to watch it.
Obviously, the killer should get what's coming to him. But I do blame the victim for instigating the confrontation. Once somebody complained, no matter how irritating or unworthy he believed the complainant to be, he should have respected the request that he comply with the theater rules.
The fact is that he had the option to continue his texting -- outside the theatre -- instead of deliberately instigating a fight. Because, as written above, by the time somebody is old enough to be gainfully employed, a loving father, etc. etc. etc. they are old enough to have learned the above.
FatBuddy
(376 posts)Lex
(34,108 posts)Or "aggravated" by something someone does. That's a given. Always has been. This is not new.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I still have distinct memories of being able to go to a movie and watch the movie. There might be some whispering, then somebody would give the whisperers a look and they'd get the message. Everybody could watch the movie and enjoy it.
I stopped going to the movies about 10 years ago. I had waited for a big, period, epic type movie to come out so I could get "lost" in it. Part of escapism of being at the big screen, versus the little, at home screen. Well, after several years of waiting for that type, one finally came out. I didn't go to the opening because I figured it would be crowded and noisy. Instead, on a midweek matinee when the kids would be in school. Except a group of teens skipped school for the movies and then jumped up and ran up and down the aisles, rode down the bannister (ultimately breaking it) and interrupted and disrupted the movie at every, single climax point. They deliberately ruined the movie for everybody who had gone to actually watch it, for their own form of "entertainment."
It seems to me, the majority of people used to have show some basic consideration for others, in exchange for the same directed toward them. Now I would say the majority of people have zero consideration for others and seem surprised that there are others out there somewhere, whether they are texting at a meal, on a date, in the middle of a conversation, driving, walking down the street, or whatever.
There has been a distinct decline in simple decency, respect and courtesy toward others. I usually laugh when such narcissists are then surprised to occasionally get some blowback, except when it turns tragic. I do find it interesting how many people make their judgements on who engaged in the "worse" behavior. It is all just bullying others.
In this case, the ultimate victim instigated the situation by breaking a rule, which rule is intended to ensure that all moviegoers get equal access to the movie. Asked 3 times to follow the rule, the victim refused to comply. When the disrespected person left and returned, the victim further escalated the situation by asking the disrespected person if he'd gone to get management. And then further escalated the situation by throwing popcorn at the disrespected person.
I look at this situation and what is see is a stupid, rude bully who met up with an equally stupid, but armed bully who wasn't going to take being bullied any more.
A nonbully would have left the theater and texted his daughter outside the theater, both out of consideration of the other person's rights and out of consideration for his wife and daughter. A nonbully would have left the theater, asked for his money back for the ticket and tried again later or waited for it to come out on dvd.
Personally, I have zero tolerance for bullying. Young bully had no manners because he's learned he can get his own way by being a bully. Well it's too bad his parents didn't bother to teach him basic manners when he was still young enough to learn them from his parents, because then he would still be alive. Now he's dead, and his wife and daughter are mourning. Old bully will probably be doing some jail time and then off to nursing home.
Bullies. They shit on everything.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Tip: "These kids today" have always not had sufficient deference to their elders and have always been rude. Even when you were "These kids today".
You just don't remember it that way, because you remember such incidents as "just having fun at the movies". You weren't thinking about the others in the theater, so you don't remember the others in the theater.
Nope, this was during the previews. It's generally considered "OK" to talk, text and otherwise be disruptive until the movie actually starts.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)He was 40ish and a father. I did not, nor have I ever, said he should have been shot. I do believe he should have known better. He behaved like a bully. He met an armed bully. The inevitable resulted.
He could have told the old man he'll be finished texting before the movie starts. He could have apologized for disturbing the old man and finished his texting outside the theater and still returned in time to watch the movie.
Instead, he refused to give up his right to text whenever and whereever no matter what. Well, he got no matter what.
I'm not saying the old man was right. I'm not saying the old man was justified. I'm not saying the old man shouldn't be in jail.
I am saying the young man was stupid, disrespectful, rude and bullying in his behavior. Act like a bully, and sooner or later you will meet up with a bigger bully, or a bully with a gang, or, as in this case, a bully with a gun.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And your entire thesis is this person died because he was not as polite to his elders as 'back in your day'.
(Which, btw, is false. You were rude as a kid. But you don't remember that way because you were in your own world. Like all kids are.)
Must bow down to the elders!!!!!!!!
Sarcasm aside, you are ignoring the problem where people have been talking during the previews for generations. The fact that this "talking" now includes an electronic device does not change this.
I'm not saying the old man was right. I'm not saying the old man was justified
Actually, you are.
You are attempting to shift the blame onto the victim. Which is why you keep calling the victim a bully. You are trying to make this entire incident his fault. If only he had bowed and desperately apologized to the 71-year-old, then he wouldn't have been shot.
What he actually did is no different than people talking during the ads and previews back before cell phones existed. And that happened all the time. Because it's never been considered rude, since they are just advertisements. The 71-year-old had an irrational hatred for "the kids today with their texting at the movies" and decided he had enough. That does not mean the victim was a bully.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)in nearly 50 years of going to the movies.
And it was an example of why I don't go to movies any more and what the old man could have chosen (just don't go) instead of choosing to be the biggest bully in the theater.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)could have just as easily de-escalated the situation. He chose instead, confrontation, for no good reason and he paid a heavy price. His wife and daughter will pay as well.
No amount of absolving him from blame will undo the simple fact that had he not chosen to confront a nut with a gun, he would still be here.
Lex
(34,108 posts)Who? It was the old guy, that's who.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Number a: the "kids today don't act like they ought" idea isn't new. Socrates wrote on that topic millennia ago.
Letter 2: who's the bigger bully, the texter or the shooter? And which one created the greater disturbance?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)very small men.
It's a point that bullies always seems to forget, or maybe never get. They always think they're the biggest bully on the block. The fact is you never know when you might meet up with a bigger bully.
So the younger bully met up with a bigger bully. He had multiple opportunities to de-escalate the situation and be the "bigger man." Instead, he actively chose to escalate it and try to be the bigger bully. That's the risk you take when choosing to be a bully. One day you meet up with a bigger bully and then your bullying days are over, in this case for good.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)We may start by observing calmly that texting in a theater is not bullying, by any current definition of the term agreed to by more than two or three people.
Your take on the situation assumes two things which cannot safely be assumed: first, that the man who commenced the confrontation had some right to begin it, and that he did so in a polite and respectable manner. Given that the man has a previous record of engaging in altercations with persons over this, in this theater, which has produced such creepy behavior as following a woman to the ladies room to continue his harassment, and given further that he was armed and willing to kill, as demonstrated by the event itself, it seems highly unlikely he broached the subject in a polite manner. It is far more likely he confronted the younger man in an aggressive manner. When confronted by a stranger in a belligerent manner, a person is well within their rights to react with anything from 'shut up, leave me alone' to 'fuck off, dude'.
There was only one 'bully' involved here, and that is the man who began the confrontation by bearding a stranger, and ended it by shooting his chosen victim at point blank range in the chest.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)may or may not have been bullying, depending on his tone of voice and choise of words, but certainly not polite or considerate of others. And yes, if you are in a movie theater and somebody is engaging in disruptive activity that is against the rules, you certainly do have a right to ask them to stop doing that behavior.
Getting up from your seat and confronting the elderly man after he returned to the theater, demanding to know if he'd complained to management, was bullying. The elderly man had every right to leave the theater and return. And since the texter was breaking rules, management had every right to ask him to stop if they chose to. Why go confront the elderly man about it?
I have no idea what "bearding a stranger" means. Why do you call me sir? I am female.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)There is absolutely no reason to think this was the case, and given what is known of his behavior, both before this incident, and in its later stages, every reason to suppose he behaved in a belligerent and aggressive manner.
If he began the confrontation in an aggressive and belligerent manner, he had no reason to expect any but a belligerent response.
The only known 'bullying' here was engaged in by the killer.
'Elderly man', by the way, cuts no ice with me whatever; I am no spring chicken myself, and am of the view that, if anything, older men ought to hold themselves to a higher standard of behavior than is allowed for the young....
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)The elderly man approached the younger man and either requested 3 times that he stop texting in the theater. Regardless of whether he polited requested it or was snarly and just nasty (iirc each "request" became louder and more insistant, so the 3rd time was a "demand" :
1. The younger man could have apologized for disturbing the elderly man and assured him he would stop before the movie began. That would have been a polite response. He chose not to.
2. The younger man could have stopped texting. That would have been a polite response. He chose not to.
3. The younger man could have left the theater and finished his texting there. That would have been a plite response. He chose not to.
He had 3 opportunities to de-escalate the situation and 3 different possible ways to de-escalate. He chose, each time, to refuse the elderly man's simple request. Was he in his legal right to stay and text? Yes. Was it socially acceptable behavior? The way I was raised, it was rude. Was it smart? Considering the outcome, no.
Then the elderly man left the theater. He returned a few minutes later. The young man had 2 options at this point:
1. he could have remained in his seat and ignored the elderly man. That would have been the polite response. he chose not to.
2. he could go confront the elderly man and initiate an argument. That is what he chose to do. Was it legal for him to approach this strange man and demand to know if he'd gone to management? Yes. Was it polite? no Was it smart? considering the outcome, no.
The elderly man replied that he had been to management to complain. The young man had many options at this point:
1. he could have returned to his seat and minded his own business; since management hadn't come back with the elderly man, he was presumably free to continue texting. That would have been the polite response. He chose not to.
2. he could remain where he was and start arguing with the man, even though management hadn't come back with the elderly man. That is what he chose. Was that legal? Yes. Was that the polite choice? no, it was rude. Was it smart? Not considering the outcome
3. He could, of all things, have thrown his popcorn at the man. That is what he chose to do. Was it legal to do? I guess so; I don't know anything about any laws regarding popcorn throwing. Was it polite? No, it was extremely rude. Was it smart? considering the outcome, no.
IOW, he was approached by an elderly stranger with a reasonable request given the public situation; he chose to be rude and disrespectful. The elderly stranger left and returned. The young man initiated the second contact, getting up from his seat, confronting the elderly man who was acting within his legal rights to talk to the managers, arguing with him about the elderly man daring to go to management, and then throwing things at him.
I have never stated that the elderly man will not deserve whatever he gets for shooting an unarmed man over texting, because he does deserve what is coming to him. I do state the the younger man acted like a bully from the beginning, and sooner or later bullies find themselves facing bigger bullies.
I'm not in a court of law. I'm in general society. And in a social setting, if you treat people the way you'd like to be treated, you usually get better results than if you choose to be confrontational and insist on your right to do whatever you feel like whenever you feel like regardless of how much it may happen to inconvenience others.
It would have cost him nothing to have been accomodating to the elderly mans whim.
Failing that, it would have cost him nothing to have simply refrained from approaching and confronting the elderly man who was exercising his right to leave the theater and return to it.
He made stupid, rude, inconsiderate choices and paid with his life. You shouldn't pay with your life for being stupid or rude, but it is also true in a social setting that if you insist on confrontation and your right to do whatever you want whenever you want to whomever you want, you may meet a bigger bully than you are..
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)He had every opportunity to de-escalate, to leave things lie, to keep things peaceable.
He did not.
He began belligerently, continued in the same vein, and finally pulled out a gun and killed an unarmed man.
He chose to do every single step he took on his course to extinguishing a human life, for something that would not justify swatting a fly.
He shot the man because he wanted to see him die.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Martin was considered the aggressor in the second confrontation, despite the fact that Zimmerman had initiated the overall situation. They were legally considered 2 separate incidents because of the short time when Martin had disappeared.
Given that precedent, in this situation, there are 2 separate incidents separated by a brief span of time. The old man initiated the 1st confrontation and then left the scene and later returned. But the young man initiated the 2nd incident by leaving his seat and deliberately confronting the old man.
It takes two to tango, and in this instance they were *both* behaving badly. It's just that one was armed and took it to the further degree of wrong.
Nothing I have written exonerates the old man from his being guilty of murder nor have I implied that anywhere.
But just because one man's behavior was totally and completely wrong, both legally *and* socially, does not mean the other man's behavior was totally and completely right and acceptable. The young man owns his own behavior.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)You are defending the killing of man for engaging in a conversation with his three year old daughter.
You are, indeed, flat out saying the man deserved to be shot.
Only one person has any degree of fault here: the man with the gun.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)as I wrote earlier, I am not writing from a legal standpoint. But according to Florida law, there were 2 separate confrontations and it doesn't matter who initiated the first one; whereas it may matter who initiated the one that ended in murder. I consider the 70 year old guilty of murder, even though the 40 year old initiated the second confrontation that ended in his being murdered. But I don't believe the 40 year old confronted him in self-defense. I think he did so to be a bully.
I consider Zimmerman guilty of murder, not only because I don't believe his story but because even if Martin did initiate the 2nd confrontation, based on personal experience in being stalked, followed and harassed, any assault he may have made was self defense.
I do believe that from a societal standpoint, that is from a "how to play nicely with others" standpoint, the 40 year old owns his own behavior.
I don't believe wasn't murdered for texting his daughter (and whether she was 3 years old or 30 is frankly irrelevent, albeit 3 years old makes for a more emotional plea).
He was murdered for engaging in a totally unnecessary and preventable confrontation with a stranger who also happened to be a gun nut, and helping to escalate that confrontation. Had he not gotten up from his seat and confronted a nut with a gun, he would still be here.
I find it interesting that you fault the one for approaching a stranger and daring to ask or demand that he stop texting, but you don't fault another person for approaching a stranger and asking and then demanding whether he just went to complain to the manager. I say they were *both* equally wrong for confronting a stranger and making demands instead of polite requests and then giving it up. I say had the younger man not chosen to start the second confrontation, he would still be here today. Instead, he is dead. And the man who killed him, regardless of who started any confrontations, is guilty of murder.
Let me put it this way. If you believe the young man was free of blame, by all means confront strangers who have behaved badly toward you in the past and demand to know whatever of them. Throw food on them too. And live (or die) with the consequences. They will be legally and morally responsible for their part. That doesn't mean you don't own your part of your own death. You are morally responsible to protect yourself. He had a responsibility to himself, his wife and his 3 year old daughter to protect himself. He abdicated in that responsibility in a totally avoidable confrontation with a gun nut.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)If, as you have finally been driven to state, you consider the man with the gun guilty of murder, then any question of blame assigned to any other person becomes irrelevant. Murder is unjustified and unjustifiable killing, one for which the killer alone is to blame.
The fact is that a man with a gun commenced an altercation with a man who was engaged in a conversation with his three year old daughter, and ended that altercation by killing the man, with a gunshot at point blank range.
No one else is responsible for the killer's pulling the trigger.
He did it, and no one else.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)You are talking about who is legally responsible for shooting who. We agree there.
I am talking about behavior in society. How people treat each other. Both are guilty of behaving badly. One is guilty of murder.
I have no more time for this because, as I have written above, we are talking about 2 different things. Good day, sir.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)We are talking about the shooting to death of one man by another.
You are bending over backwards to claim that the man who was killed is in large part to blame for the actions of the man who shot him to death.
It is not a supportable position, indeed, it is a reprehensible and disgusting position, given the actual course of events, as known from public reports.
A man possessing a gun began an altercation with a man who was engaged in a conversation with his three year old daughter. The man possessing a gun did not like how the man who was conversing with his three year old daughter reacted to being accosted and corrected. The man possessing a gun proceeded to shoot to death the man who had been conversing with his three year old daughter at point blank range.
The man possessing the gun, who set the thing in motion, who first accosted and took it upon himself to correct the behavior of a stranger, is the only person whose behavior crossed any sort of civil line here. He should have stayed in his seat and kept his mouth shut and his nose out of other people's business.
The likely fact of the matter, given known previous behavior of the man with the gun, is that he went out of his way to confront others over trivialities, and was looking for an opportunity to kill someone.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)the retired LEO came back after he went to a theater representative to complain. If he hadn't wanted the situation to escalate, he could have, should have found another seat.
This was a man whose profession in life was dealing with people. He was the elder, he should have set the example.
Where do our young people learn this? Why do they have no manners? Why do they have no consideration for others? We don't need to look any further than the mirror for those answers.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)But somebody freakin' needs to. And 40 years old is plenty old enough to know better, just as 70 is.
Again, nothing I am writing exonerates the 70 year old from being guilty of murder. The only thing that could end up getting him off is if he's in dementia, in which case what the eff is he doing with a gun (but maybe that's Florida). But just because he is 100% guilty of murder does not mean that the 40 year old man doesn't own responsibility for his own behavior.
The 40 year old man in his prime did not need to get up and confront the 70 year old when he returned. If he had stayed in his seat and ignored the 70 year old, maybe the 70 year old would have quietly sat down and shut up. Maybe management told the 70 year old that texting during previews is allowed and they'd check back in when the movie started and intervene then if necessary...we don't know and neither did the 40 year old.
And as I wrote above, one thing we learned about Florida law in the Zimmerman case is that even when the time span separating them is very short, 2 meetings are considered 2 separate incidents. Given that precedent, legally the 40 year old man initiated the 2nd confrontation.
riqster
(13,986 posts)You see, the texter was texting during the previews. It is permissible to text during previews. So he was obeying the rules. Which means he did nothing wrong. Which means he was not bullying.
With that said, the rest of your argument fails.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)So technically he was not obeying the rules.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Yes, the message appears earlier, so the moviegoers have time to comply, but the rule applies during the flick.
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)was texting, not talking, during previews.
He may have been rude to the shooter, but.... seriously?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)He was initially rude.
Later he chose to get up out of his seat and confront the old man. For all he knew, the old man may have headed out to pee, but he confronted him about it why? Seriously, why? What need did he have of knowing where the old man had been? What difference did it make to him?
Paladin
(28,254 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Not everyone has the same standards of etiquette, and something you may think is a perfectly acceptable social norm (or at the worst a minor faux pas) is going to be the most rude, vile, uncivilized act in recorded history to *someone*...
But that's besides the point -- The early reports show the shooter's mentality was already a primed fuse looking for his "spark" -- I promise you if it wasn't the texting, it would have been someone bumping into him without saying "excuse me" or someone not holding the door for a lady or *SOMETHING*....
Shampoobra
(423 posts)He was texting during the previews, by the way. The commercials.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)The man was TEXTING during the movie previews.
There are a zillion things someone could do to annoy people and NONE OF THEM WOULD DESERVE TO BE SHOT.
Your analysis that the man texting instigated the situation and should have been more mannerly which ultimately lead to a shooting is incomprehensible to me.I have been irritated a lot and have never had an urge to SHOOT somebody.
Put the blame where it belongs: ON THE SHOOTER!
If he hadn't shot somebody that time, he would have shot somebody later.
You must think the confused girl who wandered up to a house for help deserved to be shot because she was rattling the door. The shooter did not have to go outside. He could have waited on the police. But nooooo! He has to shoot.
It's beyond time we stop focusing just on the behavior of those who cause a problem and start looking hard at those who feel it's okay to shoot somebody about texting or whatever. As long as we make ANY excuse for shooting somebody when life and limb are not in imminent peril, we just add to the righteousness of the shooters and their backers.
The headline should be A man was SHOT AND KILLED for texting. Texting isn't the issue. The issue is those people who feel that guns are the first answer to everything.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Response to warrior1 (Original post)
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Lex
(34,108 posts)So pathetic that people focus on the phone. Who cares if he "had a beef" with the texting?
As I said in another thread; if Reeves put a bullet into a crying baby (or it's parents) instead, how many people would still try to defend this?
Response to Lex (Reply #40)
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Lex
(34,108 posts)is "well let's see what she did to provoke him into beating the hell out of her." Seems like the same kind of 'logic' to me.
Response to Lex (Reply #52)
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exboyfil
(17,862 posts)who got injured by the bullet that killed her husband.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)You are arguing in favor of shooting a man dead while he is in conversation with his three-year old daughter.
It is a despicable and repellent spectacle.
Response to The Magistrate (Reply #72)
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The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)You are engaged in defending the killing of a man while he was engaged in a conversation with his three year old daughter, and in fact, killing him because he was engaged in a conversation with his three year old daughter.
It does not surprise me that you try and squirt some squid's ink when what you are doing is stated in plain English, but while you thus show you are not wholly without shame, you do reveal to all that you are sufficiently shameless to try and continue in the foul enterprise you have embarked on....
Response to The Magistrate (Reply #80)
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hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)You are engaged in defending the killing of a man because he was engaged in a conversation with his three year old daughter.
It is a disgusting and repellent spectacle.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)He provoked a confrontation over texting, and escalated the confrontation he provoked to killing a man.
That is the whole picture.
riqster
(13,986 posts)That goes into my toolbox.
Ahpook
(2,750 posts)If he was screaming in his phone during the movie would that even constitute a murder? Get him kicked out and everyone goes home.
I've been threatened recently by an elderly gentleman while cycling. I was taking a break on a bridge that over looked a river and was approached by a man. He said he was going to shoot me if he ever saw me throw another bottle in the river. No bottle was thrown, I even showed him my bottle I carry on the bike.
There is no talking to these fucking people. They have one thing on their mind...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)A simple question for you:
Carrying a gadget that texts into a movie theatre...
or packing a device that blows bloody holes thru people into a movie theatre?
polichick
(37,152 posts)On edit: Guess I should say ANOTHER stalker.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Guess I should say ANOTHER stalker, with an itchy trigger finger
polichick
(37,152 posts)Tikki
(14,557 posts)Tikki
Lex
(34,108 posts)doing a quick text to say "I'm at the movies and out of pocket for a while" to kids or parents or whatever.
Baitball Blogger
(46,703 posts)Sounds like he stalked her. Was he hoping to provoke her?
Where have I seen that pattern before?
lunasun
(21,646 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Obviously, she was not texting next to him then. Would he follow a texter OUTSIDE the threatre also? So the person could not leave, move, or stop if he had seen them texting?
Sounds to me that is ex-cop had mental issues, and was just ready to explode given the wrong circumstances. Nothing to do really with texters, rude people, etc., but someone who was a loose cannon ready to kill. Think about what MOVIE he was at.
Does everyone in society have to walk around on pins and needles because in this armed society because you never know when something you do is going to piss off somebody carrying a gun and they could shoot you?
I guess old fashioned fist fights are now a thing of the past? Solve your arguments with guns? Like in the Wild West?
Gothmog
(145,173 posts)I would not be surprise to see a mental exam ordered by the court for this shooter
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)Yeah people texting and using cell phones in theaters is annoying but in this case it looks as if this guy goes to theaters looking for trouble and carrying a gun. He deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail.
riqster
(13,986 posts)And the man got what he was looking for.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Must have been a huge letdown for his authoritarian ego after he retired and people would tell him to fuck off and mind his own business when he stuck his nose in theirs.
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)atreides1
(16,076 posts)+1,000,000,000
lunasun
(21,646 posts)malaise
(268,968 posts)Looks like he was missing his power trip
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)He was once a police captain don'tcha know. Like Judge Dredd says "I am da law!" That's where his head was at.
malaise
(268,968 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)The kind that are advertised on tv all the time?
I know the link between testosterone and aggression is debated... just wondering.