How to torment telemarketers

[unhappycamper]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20140114,0,1753169.column



Readers had many ideas for taking revenge on robocall telemarketers. Above, workers at a call center in Bangalore, India, in 2005.

How to torment telemarketers
By David Lazarus
January 13, 2014, 4:52 p.m.

~snip~

Texas resident Mark Levitt said in the column that he routinely tries to tie up Rachel telemarketers for as long as possible by repeatedly feeding them bogus credit card numbers. The goal, he said, is to be such a pain in the neck that the marketing firm will remove him from its call list.

~snip~

Hugh Brown of Glendale said he tells the caller he needs to get a pen and paper, and he disappears for a bit. Then he says he needs to get his wallet from the other room and disappears again. Then he says it must be in the car, and so on.

~snip~

Ralph Schack of Rancho Palos Verdes tells telemarketers to hold on while he gets his wife. Then he goes about his business. Every so often, he returns to the line and says, "Didn't she pick up?" Then he goes about his business again.

~snip~

B.R. Lister said he worked as a police detective in Orange County for 25 years. He advises people to visit a sporting-goods store or boat dealership and pick up an air-horn canister.

[B Calm]

1. I have one of those air-horn canisters, I will try that!

[B Calm]

20. I have it right next to the phone!

[hfojvt]

48. I really don't like the air horn idea

I mean, at first, I was like "yeah". But really the real person on the other side is just some low paid worker trying to eke out a living. They have no control over what the company does.

[B Calm]

57. I don't care anymore.

[philosslayer]

232. How compassionate and progressive of you

Some minimum wage person just trying to make a living, and you want to blow an air horn in their ear? Why don't you just hang up instead of being a jerk?

[Th1onein]

251. Yes, how progressive. And someone posts this kind of crap about every other month on DU.

Why is it okay to hate these people who are only working for a living, just like most of us? Let me give you the excuse: The torturer is on the Do Not Call list! Forget the fact that the telemarketer doesn't have any control over who he/she calls. Then, the next excuse is that these people (broad brush) are all crooks.

It's the need to hate; that's why this crap is posted. NO excuse for it.

[B Calm]

261. When these assholes con artists who ignore the do not call list learn compassion, so

will I. The only jerk here is you!

[Th1onein]

302. These "assholes con artists" don't "ignore" the do not call list, don't you GET it?

They don't have access to it. The owners of the company do, and they don't bother to scrub the call lists they give their workers. These are WORKERS, just like me and you. You should have some compassion for them, and some decency.

[B Calm]

316. Oh I get it all right. So if you are the get away driver for

bank robbers, using your PC logic I should should show compassion because he was just doing what the robbers asked him to do.

[Th1onein]

326. You're painting with a broad brush there.

The telemarketers have NO WAY of checking whether the owners scrubbed the lists for the Do Not Calls. They are just doing their job. They're just workers, trying to earn a living, like the rest of us. They don't deserve your hate.

[B Calm]

327. Oh yea, they deserve my hate. A couple hours of calling

people on the DNC list and they are going to hear hate from people like me. That would be a huge clue they are doing something illegal!

[Th1onein]

331. Welcome to Ignore.

[B Calm]

334. LOL, a PC policeman puts me on ignore because I hate con artists. .

[pnwmom]

262. And some minimum wage person is finally trying to relax at home

but the phone keeps ringing over and over. Even if the machine picks it up, that's disruptive.

What gives these people the right to ignore the Federal do-not-call list? When they're told over and over that the person they called is on it and that they're breaking the law with their repeated calls?

[Atman]

291. She/he could easily just not answer the phone.

It is apparently more fun to f**k with people.

[FSogol]

61. Don't worry, it doesn't work. The person blowing the air horn will hear the

sound much louder than the person on the other end. There are limits to the sound built into the receiver. Don't believe me? Test it out.

[klook]

82. It gets quieter with each blast. After 20-30 times you don't hear it so much...

or anything else, for that matter.

[ArnoldLayne]

105. Your right it didn't sound loud. I would chuckle and one of the girls would ask

what did you get a Whistle Blower, I said no I got the Air Horn. She said she had 3 already and was called a slut 6 times in the first 2 hours. It's best to just say your not interested in a nice way and hang up. Don't let them keep talking. Just say like Caribou Barbie would say "Thanks but no thanks" That is how they would enter it into the computer, Not Interested, I know that's what I did.

[Atman]

141. Exactly. No law says you have to listen to a word they say.

I simply don't answer any call labeled "Unknown" or "No Caller ID." Or 800, 888 numbers. Telemarketers never use a caller ID. I have one friend who blocks his ID, and ironically enough, I answer his calls because he is the only person who shows up a "Blocked." Telemarketers show up as "Unknown" or "No Caller ID."

[B Calm]

280. That's all fine and dandy, now look at post 19!

[Atman]

286. It is illegal to call "late at night."

I believe the cut-off time is 8:00 pm (in the time-zone being called), although it might be 9:00 pm. They cannot start calling before 8:00 or 8:30 am. So, while I'd share your concern if it were valid, it is illegal conduct, and just like any other illegal conduct, there are remedies. No truck driver or shift worker is coming home at 1:00 am only to be woken up my a marketing call -- it is illegal. They don't want to do this, because then they can be fined and you'll just put them on the do-not-call list.

[B Calm]

288. whooosh, reading comprehension is not your strong point!

[Atman]

289. Actually, it is one of my strong points.

I'm sorry you disagree. There are laws. If someone is breaking a law (are they breaking into your house? Beating your dog?) call the authorities. Telemarketers cannot call before 8:30 am or after 9:00 pm. So your assertion that a trucker coming home at 2:00 am and being subjected to telemarketing calls is just ridiculous. A non sequitur. You made up a fantasy scenerio. I am free to point out your bullshit.

[B Calm]

292. Your so full of bullshit. Go back and reread the damn post I asked you

to read.

[Orrex]

293. I finally understand your screen name.

I couldn't quite figure it out at first, but now it makes total sense.

[B Calm]

294. Yep, it's something I keep telling myself when dealing with idiots.

[Atman]

295. I'd alert on you if I was one of these assholes that alrerted on people.

Perhaps I could suggest that you go back and read MY posts? Perhaps.

EDIT TO ADD: "B Calm." Really? How much of a joke is that?

[B Calm]

296. When someone insults me, I insult back!

[Atman]

297. That is very apparent.

Right or wrong.

[polly7]

217. Does it sound anything like that horn that begins the 'you've won a cruise' call?

I hate that thing.

[B Calm]

219. LOL

[Atman]

290. I just don't get why people still answer their phones!

It seems like a simple solution! Is there a caller ID? No? DON'T ANSWER IT! A friend, your mom, a hospital, the vet, ANYONE you want to actually talk to will have a caller ID or will leave a message. This is NOT rocket science...and I have three rocket scientists in my family. None of them answer unknown calls. Why do you?

[polly7]

303. Most times now I DON'T.

Not every unknown name/number is a telemarketer and often, for me ... is an important call. I don't have a message service on my phone and for a long time, did not have caller ID. My aunt, then my dad, became ill and I was afraid of missing even one call - besides, it's really none of your business. How's that for rocket science?

[Brickbat]

2. Good lord, who has that kind of time?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. Give the phone to a three year old. That's what we did last time during a birthday party.

[Le Taz Hot]

4. LOL!

That's perfect! Most three-year-olds are chatty as all get out. Cute but chatty.

[BarbaRosa]

52. A friend suggested giving the phone to a kid and say it's Santa.

[Major Nikon]

332. I used to do that when my kids were that age

When I got a call from a telemarketer, I'd hand the phone to them and say, "It's for you"

[dembotoz]

5. so the next time you get asked to volunteer at a candidates phone bank....

[lame54]

15. Make sure you casll during dinner...

no matter what they are selling - those calls suck

[Orrex]

6. These are great, because I'm sure that the call center employees need more bullshit in their jobs

I don't think that I've had an actual human telemarketer call me in more than 10 years, and the tactics described in the article will do nothing to deter a robo-caller.

I won't fault anyone for taking whatever steps they feel are appropriate, but having worked in call centers I simply don't have it in me to make the callers' jobs any more stressful.

[Trailrider1951]

18. I'm with you Orrex

A simple "No thank you, I'm not interested" and a hang up is sufficient.

I save the air horn for those assholes from the collection agency.

[Historic NY]

285. Doesn't work they call back every day....sometimes X3

believe me. I now tell them this call is logged for Federal Prosecution in the US court in White Plains. I have filed informations with the court on line. One telemarketer has multiple phones exchanges across the country.

Solar - Green energy - medical alerts - chimney cleaning - the list goes on. I do screw with the overseas boiler rooms.

[Gormy Cuss]

55. For those reasons I prefer robocalls.

I say really nasty stuff to the recording. I'd never treat a polite call center employee that way. The job sucks and most employees don't last long in it.

Now the occasional jerk call center employee is a different story.

[ArnoldLayne]

109. You are right they have a big turnover. About 6 months and they move on.

[FSogol]

62. +1. n/t

[B Calm]

65. You don't get those annoying calls wanting you to donate to the State Police?

[Nye Bevan]

98. Did you work for a company that instructed you to lie to people,

and attempt to get their credit card number so that your company could rip them off for several hundred dollars? Did your company spoof the caller ID so it looked like you were calling from South Dakota? There is a big difference between reputable companies and the kind of scum that we are discussing in this thread.

[Orrex]

102. If only there were a way to terminate the call.

If only.

[Nye Bevan]

175. I see you dodged the question. Please don't tell me that you worked for "Rachel" (nt)

[Egalitarian Thug]

311. What, no answer?

Why do I have no difficulty at all seeing you doing this?

And before you play the poor me card, I did this too, for several months. They lied to get me in the door, they lied about what the job was, they tried to steal from me every single payday, and I took the money. I worked against them every day, warned customers about the scam that was being run on them, gave them tips and resources to get off the lists, spent hours talking to lonely people, didn't sell shit until they had no choice but to fire me and pay the unemployment claim they seemed desperate to avoid.

[Orrex]

317. I should think the answer is obvious from the context

In short, no, I don't work for such a company, and frankly I am as skeptical of your account as I am of the other poster's tales of heroic phone pestering.

Why don't you name this dishonest company that you allege to have sabotaged? And what was the result when you reported them after your termination?

Since you freely declare that you were terminated for willful misconduct in the context of the job, I am also skeptical that you were able to get them to pay your unemployment.

If you admitted to your willful misconduct on your UC application, then the company shouldn't have had to pay you. If you didn't admit to it, then you engaged in fraud.

[Egalitarian Thug]

319. Well the first requrement would be to ask. The company is called Stream International and all they

do is contract to steal for Big Corporations through their call centers in the U.S., Canada, and India. Due to a series of crimes committed by a couple of Too Big to Prosecute parasites, I found myself in dire straights from 2007 until recently and had to take what I could get.

Your reading skills are every bit as sharp as your debating skills, I was not terminated for valid cause because, much to their disappointment, I know how to read and understand a contract. They contested the claim, but then sent a clueless twenty-something to the hearing with a script. The Judge was not impressed and I got my due.

[Egalitarian Thug]

320. And still no answer. n/t

[Orrex]

321. What question do you think I'm not answering?

I was asked if I work for companies that engage in the deceptive described by the noble phone pesterer, and I stated clearly that I do not. How is that not answering?

You freely admit that you worked to undermine the company, and yet you claim that this wasn't willful misconduct? if they lied to you as you allege, then that's on them and you should have left as soon as you realized it. If they lied to you and you stayed to engage in sabotage, then you engaged in willful misconduct in the context of the job, and that's on you.

I am always skeptical of internet stories of heroic self-congratulation, especially when someone like you, with a well-established personality, claims to have acted in some heroic way directly contrary to that personality.

[Egalitarian Thug]

322. So I named the company and you're not interested anymore. You feel you are better qualified to

adjudicate my case than the judge whose job it was. And you finish off this masturbatory session with yet more ad hominem woven into an absurd not-quite-a-defense of a completely parasitic industry.

Do you really imagine that you fool anyone?

[Orrex]

323. If I come right out and call you a liar, then someone will hit the Alert button.

So instead I will say simply that I do not believe your self-contratulating heroic story as told.

You claim that Stream International exists solely to contract to steal for Big Corporations through their call centers in the U.S., Canada, and India. I don't believe you.

You claim that you were in dire strates from 2007 until recently due to the nefarious dealings of powers beyond your control. I don't believe you.


I'm under no obligation to respond to you as you insist. You accuse me of working for criminals, you attack my reading skills, and you attack my debating skills, and then you accuse me of engaging in ad hominem attacks. Do you read the shit that you write before you hit the Post my reply! button? Next, you'll probably cry that you're being alert-stalked.


Since you're so fond of crafting fantasy scenarios in which you play an important role, it's fitting that your thoughts would run immediately to masturbation.


You're welcome to persist in your public self-aggrandizement. You'll probably even convince yourself that your story is compelling or your arguments convincing, and more's the pity.

I'm done with your silliness.

[Egalitarian Thug]

324. You already have, several times and I couldn't care less. I do think that most DUers that might be

on any potential jury will not be fooled by your oh-so-clever subterfuge. But you have nothing to fear from me, I'm here for other reasons.

We've done this dance before and the only reason I engage with you at all is to let as many people as possible see you for what you are.

You don't have an argument or position, you strike poses in the desperate hope that someone will think you're worthwhile. You gang up with a tiny cadre to hassle and bully anyone that points out the bankruptcy of your views, or at least the views you espouse on this site.

And just as you have done all over this thread, when someone has the time and feels like wasting the effort to call you out on your crap, you change the subject, declare victory and run away.

Run Orrex, run!
&

[redqueen]

170. +1

[lapislzi]

7. This is one hell of a mean-spirited thread

Why would you hassle, annoy, or torment someone who was trying to do a job and earn a paycheck? I also find telemarketers incredibly annoying and bothersome. But...really? How would you like it? How much does it suck to have to deal with rude people all day long?

Caller ID, if you have it, is your friend. If it's a number you don't recognize, don't pick up the damn phone.

If I'm caught off guard and do pick up, I politely ask the marketer not to call again, to remove my name from the calling list, and to have a nice day. I simply talk over their blather and hang up.

How hard is that? How hard is it to just be nice? Don't use an elephant gun to swat a mosquito.

SMH.

[badtoworse]

8. That is what we do. If we don't recognize the number, we don't answer.

Much less stressful.

Caller ID has to be the greatest invention in the last 15 years or so. I'd have gone crazy without it.

[laundry_queen]

44. Sometimes you have to answer eventually

I find ignoring the call means they call over and over and over and over again.

Normally after telling them I'm not interested I say, "Please take me off your list." which, generally here by law means they have to not call you again. Doesn't always work, but it lets them know I'm aware of the law.

If it's a scam calling, then all bets are off. I yell at them that I know they are a scam and that I'm going to catch them and that I have traced them and that the cops on the way there right now. LOL. We've had so many of those calls lately. Everything from the old 'Microsoft is calling' to 'would you like a lower interest rate on your credit card? We just need your number...'. I HATE scammers.

[B Calm]

14. If you worked the midnight shift, you would know

in fact who is being mean spirited!

[pipi_k]

31. Not only that....

but I looked up what the hours are they can legally call. Generally they are between 8 AM and 9 PM.

The calls that really and truly piss me off are the ones that come AFTER dinner. Sometimes they wait until just a few minutes before 9 PM.

Now, anyone who has family and has made it clear to family that calling before 8 PM is a great idea unless it's an emergency might appreciate the range of emotions that flash through my brain when a call comes after 8 PM.

First two rings, before caller ID kicks in...rush of adrenaline...panic...OMG someone is hurt!!!

Caller ID shows number...relief it's not a family member, then a flash of anger at the caller for being the cause of heart pumping panic I really don't need to deal with.

So I pick up the phone and angrily ask the person do they know what the fuck time it is. OK, maybe they don't. Or they wouldn't, if they were calling my cellphone, which isn't the same area code as my home number. If they don't call after 10 PM, then there must be some device in place to let them know they can't legally do that. They should also not be able to call someone just a few minutes before 9 PM either.

Also what they need is some way of removing numbers from their database, or wherever the numbers are being generated, where nobody answers or the calls go to an answering machine time after time after time. I swear, Cardmember Svcs has called at least 30 times over the past couple of years informing me that this is my "last chance to take advantage of lower rates". I wish they would keep their promise and stop calling already.

Anyway, we hardly ever answer anymore, but I do often want to have some fun with the telemarketers:

"Good afternoon, Pixiefart Dildo Factory, how can I help you?"


Just to see what would happen

[enlightenment]

54. Growing up, our response to the persistent

sales calls (this was before telemarketing took off, so it was mostly local stores), was "Bob's mortuary - you stab 'um, we slab 'um". That worked until we tried it on my dad's mom, for fun. She had no sense of humor, that woman . . .

[pipi_k]

60. One of

my BILs used to do that too.

Every time someone called.

Of course, this was way before caller ID, so it got sort of dicey sometimes

[enlightenment]

66. True - we were taking our lives

(or, more accurately, our freedom from the dreaded "restriction&quot in our hands.



Today, I'm polite. Thank you, not interested, please remove me from your call list. Assuming a human is on the line. With the increase in robo-calls, hanging up is about all you can do.

[davidpdx]

313. I think that's damn funny

Sometimes when my wife calls me on the home phone I'll use one of those. I've also used little old lady voices (in Korean because my wife is Korean and I live in Korea). The last time she called I got her too. Her sense of humor is way different. I think that time she probably laughed, but usually I get a stern "that's not funny". I tell her she sounds like my mom.

[lapislzi]

147. Nobody important ever calls my land line

Family members know to use my cell. I'm also lucky (if you could call a Comcast customer "lucky&quot in that the VOIP caller ID pops up on the TV if the TV is on.

I realize that I'm pretty fortunate to have these conveniences. It is definitely a hassle to have to deflect unwanted callers, but I try to keep in mind that they are trying to do a job, as distasteful as that job may be to many. So I keep it quick and polite. Costs me nothing.

PS I like "Pixiefart Dildo Company," though!

[Lurker Deluxe]

73. I agree

I always politely say that I am not interested ... if they continue I respond with, "please don't make me be rude to you, I told you I was not interested".

That usually gets a thank you for your time and a disconnect.

If not, I hang up on them, which I consider to be rude.

[ronnie624]

85. Often, the name that appears on caller ID is deliberately misleading.

Also, I never get them at home, only at work, where not answering the phone is not an option, and the daily stream of calls from telemarketers causes me even more stress than the person on the other end of the line. If the telemarketer employee can't handle the "torment" associated with the job, then perhaps they should find another line of work.

[RebelOne]

143. Often I will receive calls with anonymous as the caller and anonymous as the location.

I will sometimes answer and tell them that I won't speak with anonymous callers and call back when they have a name.

[davidpdx]

314. That's a good one

I'm sure they hear it a lot. It's a lot milder of a complaint than most people have stated they make.

[ArnoldLayne]

114. There you go now your talking!! That's what I'm trying to tell everyone pretty much

what you said and I should know I was one.

[RebelOne]

133. I do not answer calls from numbers I do not know.

If the call is important, the caller can leave a message on my voice mail.

[7wo7rees]

246. It is mean-spirited, as is the article.

I've made my money over the phone for 25 years and there is no need for these tactics.

Learn to say "No thank you, and please take me off your list." Then go to your anger management class.

[Skittles]

301. I agree

I simply say, "I'm not interested; thank you" and hang up.

[PotatoChip]

9. I didn't go to the link but,

telemarketers would actually like the 2nd and 3rd ideas out of the 4 listed here. Unless of course they got caught and reprimanded for not disconnecting.

And the 4rth doesn't work because the software blocks such noises. It sounds on the telemarketer's end like a blank, silent moment.

I don't know about the 1rst, though... I've seen all but that one on DU before, and asked my nephew about them. He worked part time for a telemarketing company to help pay for college.

[nykym]

10. This is my all time favorite!

[riverwalker]

50. LOLOL!!! n/t

[KentuckyWoman]

274. That’s art.

laughed so much I snorted.

[Lancero]

11. Thats small stuff.

Want to see a pro? Look at this guy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23869462

[baldguy]

12. That's it - torture the low wage workers trying to feed their family & keep a roof over their heads

Way to make crappy jobs even crappier. Do you punch out the greeter at Walmart, too? Or knock over the person offering samples of the newest processed food at the supermarket? No, you don't. Because you're normally a compassionate human being who doesn't treat people like garbage. THAT'S WHAT THOSE OTHER PEOPLE DO!

Why is it OK - even encouraged - to treat people like garbage on the phone?

Just say "No, thank you," and hang up. Or just hang up.

[lame54]

17. the sample giver is giving you food...

the greeter is being friendly to a place that YOU went to

these people are not invited - yet here they are - disrupting your time

I get that you are trying to convince people to be nice - but these are terrible comparisons

[pipi_k]

58. In a way

this is how I see it, too.


Having a telephone shouldn't be reason for others to invade my personal space.

What was especially maddening was when we were paying for an unlisted, unpublished number. That means it's not in the phone book, and nobody can get it from caller assistance, either.

So we're paying for privacy, and STILL getting calls. I realize they're robo calls, but still...

Anyway, I got into a bit of a verbal scuffle one time with a telemarketer who believed that she had an absolute right to invade peoples' homes via their telephones. I don't even know what thought process goes into that sort of thing.

Much the same happened once when a door to door salesperson told me how wrong I was when I said that if I want to buy something, I will leave my home to get it (this was back before online ordering was common).

It's awfully hard to be pleasant to individuals like that...

[Nye Bevan]

33. These people are CRIMINALS. Violating the DNC list and cold-calling cellphones is a CRIME.

People who burglarize homes are also "trying to feed their family" and deserve about the same amount of sympathy.

[baldguy]

56. And I bet you moan & cry when you get crappy customer service from your cell provider too.

Here's a clue for you: THEY'RE THE SAME PEOPLE! Imagine a big room with hundreds of people with headsets & desktop workstations. On one side of the room is your customer service, on the other side are the telemarketers.

Cell providers don't do their own customer service; they contract it out to a third-party call center. That third party call center is then allowed to use that customer list to develop a telemarketing campaign for their other customers. That's how your cell phone company defines a "business relationship". A it's all legal.

Your argument isn't with the people who call you, it's with the corporations who employ them.

The telemarketers who call you are not criminals. Treating them like they are is morally repugnant for anyone who claims to be a liberal.

[kristopher]

67. "Treating them like they are is morally repugnant "

No, it isn't.

The law was passed for very good reasons. Just because there are loopholes and a lack of enforcement mechanisms (thank you free market Repubs) doesn't mean those reasons disappear. When justice is thwarted, you should expect individual frustration to express itself via whatever avenue is available.

[baldguy]

79. Being frustrated gives you license to be an asshole? That's an excuse for a child.

[kristopher]

104. So the victim should be responsible for the feelings of the perpetrator?

How did you put it? Blaming the victim "is morally repugnant for anyone who claims to be a liberal."

[baldguy]

146. Keep track of what the premise is here: A caller engaging in a legal activity

Is being made subject to harassment by a deranged person answering the phone. And this harassment is being encouraged here! All the unreasoning hatred is being directed personally at the working-class people who staff these call centers instead of the corporations that employ them, the victim is the telemarketer who has done nothing other than dial a number in front of her. And a lot of the time they don't even do that. You don't want a solicitation? Fine. Answer the phone and say so. Then work to change the laws that allow these call centers to operate the way they do.

[Nye Bevan]

157. Spoofing the caller ID is not legal. Neither is lying and pretending that you represent Visa

or Mastercard. These people are criminals who are trying to steal credit card numbers and rip off vulnerable people.

[Orrex]

263. How do you identify these spoofing criminals precisely?

Or do you scream into the phone like a lunatic very time you answer? After all, the phone says that your grandma is calling, but you can never be too safe!

Also, please post the exact law that states that number-spoofing is illegal. Without even seeing that law, I can think of two or three easy ways around it that almost certainly aren't illegal.

[Nye Bevan]

266. "Caller ID spoofing now illegal in the US"

http://www.dailytech.com/Caller+ID+Spoofing+Now+Illegal+in+the+US/article18138.htm

And I am not sure where you get the "scream like a lunatic" thing. I have never done that in my life, even to the criminals.

As for how to know when it is spoofed, one way is to call the number back on another line during the call.

[Orrex]

272. I can't believe that anyone really spends as much time and effort on this as you do.

Anyway, here's how to get around it:

1. Have an unlisted or unidentified outbound number; any phone in the company that dials out will generate the same unlisted switchboard number.

2. Assign all outbound numbers to a subsidiary division with a confusing but not illegal name, such as "Credit Card Updates

3. Actually route the outbound calls through a legitimate business partner, so that "Acme Alzheimer Scam, Inc." shows up as "Acme Aluminum Siding Company, Inc."

4. Have a large number of legitimate but unidentified outbound numbers

The anti-spoofing law probably works very well at what it covers, but what it covers is just a tiny fraction of what actually goes on.
Just like your heroic phone-pestering scheme.

And here's a great suggestion: if an Alzhemer's patient is so vulnerable that any phone call could result in thousands of dollars in credit card fraud, perhaps that patient should have a caretaker with power of attorney. If you really want to help such people, then your efforts would be better spent in this fashion, rather than by hoping for the one-in-million chance to create a brief and insignificant nuisance for one agent at one company.

But if you're actually just looking for a chance to be a blowhard to someone on the phone who really won't care at all, then I say go for it.

[Nye Bevan]

276. So how many posts is that since your promised "last post" on this subject (post #195)?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4341932

What made you change your mind about that to the extent that you are continuing to post on this and are now concocting elaborate hypothetical 4-point schemes by which scammers could theoretically circumvent the anti-spoofing laws? You are certainly investing way more time and effort into this issue than I ever have.

[Orrex]

287. Three, including this one. I didn't expect your campaign of silliness to continue

As schemes go, it's not that elaborate, and I didn't "concoct" it at all; it's how businesses routinely operate, even 100% legitimate ones. I'm also not investing any time in this beyond addressing your preposterous misconceptions. I certainly don't waste a half an hour of my time on the phone trying to pretend that I'm costing an imaginary criminal real money.

This, too, proves that you don't understand what you're talking about, and I'm not the only one who's called you out for your silliness.

[kristopher]

192. You're the one that has lost track of the premise

We DID get a law passed. It worked for a while and then the loopholes and work-arounds were found. Compound that problem with a lack of enforcement mechanisms and you have an industry CLEARY operating outside the ethical boundaries set by society. IF you sign on to work for those folks, you have to expect the backlash.

Yes the workers are in the middle, but that doesn't get them off the hook any more than it would any other person engaged in unethical behavior that exploits people.

Have you *ever* met anyone that invited calls from telemarketers? They are invading a private space and that has consequences.

[B Calm]

198. +1 Couldn't agree more!

[lapislzi]

169. Do you yell at the lifeguard when the tide comes in?

The callers are given lists of numbers by their supervisors, who are probably given them by someone up the chain. Someone at a much higher pay grade decides to disregard the DNC lists. Not the poor person trying to earn a buck.

There are polite ways of expressing displeasure. "Please don't call here again." Hang up. Simple.

Do you have a "right" to hurl invective at a telemarketer? Sure you do, but, really. Is that who you are? Are you that petty? Would you do that if you were speaking to the person face to face, if they approached you on the street?

That's not to say that I'm not firm with these people. "I said NO. Please don't call here again or I will report you."

Peace to you.

[Atman]

204. The callers don't even have a list of numbers.

They just sit there with headphones on and a computer dials numbers off of a database. I doubt they honestly care whether or not anyone yells at them or hangs up on them...it's like thinking the Port-O-Potty guy gets upset because someone took a crap in the Port-O-Potty. It's what they're paid to do. Yell at them, hang up, whatever, the computer will just dial the next number.

.

[lapislzi]

238. When it's a human on the other end of the line, politeness is the decent thing to do.

If it's a robocall, all bets are off.

Maybe the callers are accustomed to being abused, but that doesn't mean *I* have to dish it out.

[davidpdx]

315. Yep

I've worked for a telemarketing company who had plenty of different clients. The employees have to go through training for each client as the scripts are different. Most of them were banks, but there were other clients as well. It's been so long I can't remember specifics (which is probably a good thing). Last I heard the company I worked for got bought out.

It's shitty work and I hated it. Did it for about six months and quit. I ended up going back to school to get my masters degree.

[NutmegYankee]

309. Car-jackers, Thieves, Muggers, Robbers, Telemarketers...

All just folks trying to make a living to feed their family and keep a roof over their heads. How dare we berate these criminal scum! It's like being told you should be polite with a robber and even offer him the change in your pocket.

[rurallib]

13. These folks are people also, trying to make a living

Just say no and hang up. Don't be a jerk.

[kristopher]

28. I can see that side of it; can you see the other side?

The employees of the telemarketing company are violating a very fundamental social norm revolving around beliefs about the sanctity of the home, privacy, the role of guests, and almost certainly several others. In fact, since the outrage at the intrusion was so great, we've passed a law against this and the telemarketers are now violating not just norms, but the law.

Can you think of instances where that type of behavior is looked at sympathetically because the person you interact with is just (to paraphrase) a poor schlep fronting for 'the bad guys'?

Let's go to an extreme to obtain some clarity.
If a soldier is ordered to kill innocent civilians, is the solder as guilty as the person issuing the order?

Let's step it down a bit.
If bank employees knowingly falsify mortgage documents at the behest of their employer, are they as guilty as the employer?

And a bit more.
If you are working in a convenience store, and the owner instructs you to place a couple of random items on the counter and "accidentally' ring those items up for every other customer (and the customer walks out without the items), is the cashier morally responsible?

All of those example have in common a coercive element. The soldier is bound by law to obey, and while the ability to reject and order exists, the repercussions are pretty drastic. The bank employees don't have that legal obligation to obey, but the threat of the loss of a steady job they probably have years invested in has spawned the term 'wage slave' for very valid reasons. And while the cashier at the convenience store probably isn't making a career of it, they are likely living hand to mouth on an insufficient paycheck that they can't do without.

How much slack do you cut them as individuals when they are caught in their illegal acts?

Since the telemarketers are violating the law and taking advantage of our inability to catch and hold them accountable, is it any wonder that people seek a way to exact their own form of justice?

But still it is as you say - they are just trying to make a living. But then again, all of those above are doing the same thing, are they less deserving of our sympathy?

Final thought - during Vietnam this was a popular saying, "What if they held a war and nobody showed up?"
Does improvement in society begin with each person applying morality over expediency?

Just some thoughts, no judgement rendered.

[PotatoChip]

29. How is the telemarketer not obeying the law? (nt)

[kristopher]

30. Unless you have an existing business relationship, telephone solicitation is illegal.

Haven't you heard of the "Do Not Call" registry?

[PotatoChip]

42. First, 'they' are not calling you.

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2014, 06:54 PM - Edit history (1)

The company's automatic dialer is. They (the telemarketers) have no control over what name pops up.

Second, when someone asks to be put on the Do Not Call registry, the telemarketer is required to read a scripted message that among other things says, (paraphrasing) 'Please be advised that we (the company) will have your name removed from our internal list no later then 31 days from this day as required by law'.

So if the automatic dialer reaches you again within less than 31 days the company is still following the law.

And finally, there are often branches of the company that you are doing business w/who are soliciting these calls. Aka as affiliates. You can opt out of solicitation from such affiliates through the privacy policies they send.

FWIW, I don't like getting telemarketing calls either, so I just hang up.

Post edited to reflect a change in FCC laws that allows a company 31 days to fulfill the client's DNC registry request.

[kristopher]

53. "They" are calling me.

"They" are the face of a company that is, using the most charitable interpretation possible, exploiting a series of very liberal interpretations of loopholes in order to circumvent the crystal clear intention of the law.

It really isn't morally defensible at any level. Participants can find ways to rationalize their behavior, but as my example point out, that kind of rationalization is possible even when the act engaged in is much, much more egregious. Such is the power of self delusion.

[PotatoChip]

59. And what would have been my nephew's motive

for 'exploiting you'. Or anyone for that matter? Certainly not big money. He was just a college kid earning a pittance above minimum wage to help pay his way through school.

And again, you do know that he was not physically calling you, right? My (or your) name pops up on his screen at which point, he goes into his scripted spiel...

What I find truly sad about this, is that it really isn't just a crappy job for college kids anymore. Increasingly, out of work, formerly middle class bread winning adults are finding themselves having to take jobs such as these.

Sad state of affairs.

[kristopher]

64. What is the motive for a soldier killing innocent civilians?

Or police brutality?

Where does the line get drawn for abdication of personal responsibility in order to get a paycheck?

[PotatoChip]

71. Are you seriously equating some random college kid working

a part time job at a call center w/cold blooded murderers?

[kristopher]

101. Are you seriously reading it that I did?

Or are you trying to score a cheap debating point?

What I wrote is related to my earlier post where I followed a common thread from an extreme to this issue in steps. I implicitly asked a question in that post that I repeated and you are trying to reframe.

Why no just engage honestly and try to answer the question - where does the line get drawn for someone to accept personal responsibility?

If you get 'ripped off' in a legal deal on a car, is the salesperson part of the wrong done to you?

If an HVAC mechanic sells you a furnace you don't need by inflating a cost estimate, is that OK?

Does it make an unethical act OK because someone makes a living by engaging in that act?

If society give you no recourse to address the wrong, what should someone do?

[PotatoChip]

117. Yes, I am reading it that way.

I have been straight forward, and to the point through-out this entire conversation, imo. If you feel as if I have not been, or unreasonable in some other way, then why continue trying to engage a response?

[kristopher]

194. Then you need to reread what I've written.

What I find most interesting in this particular exchange is how hard you are working to avoid addressing the clear ethical problem that is present.
I once worked at a job for a number of years that stoked a strong awareness of the ethics of personal responsibility involved in earning a living. I acted on my conscience and paid a stiff financial penalty for doing it; but I've never regretted it. So I think I have a good grasp of how we can deceive ourselves and find excuses for doing things we know are wrong - and I also know that if more of us act on what we know to be right and wrong, the world will be a better place.
So ask yourself why you have avoided the question I've posed to you. You don't need to answer me, but it might be worth your time to think about it in the future.

Take care.

[PotatoChip]

200. Can you explain what the clear ethical problem is then?

It is not at all clear to me what is unethical about earning money for college, as long is one is not behaving unethically to do it.

But I'd be interested to hear what you think is unethical about being a pion worker for a call center is. I think that is where the miscommunication came in. I failed to see that ethics is what you were referring to.

You started out saying it was illegal, so I somehow missed the switch to unethical, I guess. Mea Culpa

[oldhippie]

199. But you never answered the question posed ....

I wonder why that is?

No need to answer me. I understand.

[PotatoChip]

202. What question? (nt)

[oldhippie]

208. These questions .....

... posed several times.

Where does the line get drawn for abdication of personal responsibility in order to get a paycheck?

Why no just engage honestly and try to answer the question - where does the line get drawn for someone to accept personal responsibility?

Reading comprehension.

[PotatoChip]

218. Ok then.

Where does the line get drawn for abdication of personal responsibility in order to get a paycheck?

The line gets drawn when an employee is asked to perform their work in an illegal or unethical way. One should never compromise their integrity for a job.

Why no just engage honestly and try to answer the question - where does the line get drawn for someone to accept personal responsibility?

One has personal responsibility for their actions and must own up to them when they've said or done something wrong. That would be a beginning. But this is too broad of a question to answer in full.

As an aside: How is the Turtle shooting going these days?

[oldhippie]

225. Turtle shooting?

What? I don't shoot animals.

[PotatoChip]

241. Sorry. I had you mixed up w/someone else.

Just looked it up.

[Nye Bevan]

36. They are CRIMINALS. They deserve zero sympathy.

"Just hanging up" frees up more of their time to rip off other people. The more of their time you take up, the fewer naive and old folks they will be able to rip off.

[PasadenaTrudy]

16. Just don't answer the phone

or hang up. If I see a strange # from some city/state where I don't know anyone, I decline the call. I know it's different with a landline, but I ditched that years ago. Less stress now

[B Calm]

19. Imagine you worked all night, came home,

had a bite to eat and then went to sleep. Deep into your sleep approx. 2 hrs after going to bed you are rudely awaken by some telemarketer who is worried about your credit rating. You asks politely not to call this number and hang up. Then you go back to bed and roll around for several hours and then finally give up and get up. At midnight your back on your job and around 5 in the morning you nod off just for a few minutes. The boss catches you and you're called in the office and given a verbal warning. When you get home, you head straight to bed and 2 hrs into your sleep someone calls again who is worried about your credit rating.

Now imagine the guy is a truck driver and falls asleep at his job. That family he ran over at 5 in the morning might be somebody you know.

[PADemD]

21. The ringer on my bedroom phone is turned off.

No more wrong number phone calls at 2 a.m.

[Cairycat]

22. I call BS on this

telemarketers are limited to normal business hours, i.e. 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. This rules out your scenario of coming home late or being awakened early by such a call. See http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0198-telemarketing-sales-rule .

Telemarketers are just working people. No need to be rude. Don't answer, hang up. No need for mean tricks.

[Fumesucker]

24. Reading is fundamental

First phrase in the post you are responding to.

"Imagine you worked all night"

[Mariana]

115. It's amazing how many people

simply do not comprehend that some people work nights, and that those people have to sleep in the daytime.

[B Calm]

148. Then they wonder why truck drivers fall asleep at the wheel and

run over families on vacation.

[PADemD]

25. He's probably working third shift and sleeping during the day.

Depending on the company, third shift may end at 7:30 a.m.

[B Calm]

27. The normal business hrs for someone working the graveyard shift is Midnight to 8 AM

So I call BS right back at ya! You ask these assholes politely to not call you and does that put an end to it? HELL NO it doesn't! THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE BEING RUDE!

[Beaverhausen]

32. Turn your ringer off

[B Calm]

37. No, I rather blow a fucking Air Horn into the phone! I've had it with

these assholes! Family and friends know when it's safe to call. If I would get a call during the day I would think it's an emergency. My wife might of had a heart attack at work. So why in hell would I let the telemarketers win and turn my ringer off?

[Beaverhausen]

69. have you registered for the "do not call" list?

if so, you really shouldn't be getting any unsolicited calls.

My husband is a nurse so I understand about working night shifts.

[Nye Bevan]

95. These criminal scum completely ignore the DNC list (nt)

[B Calm]

145. Uh, yes. . That don't stop these assholes!

[Carolina]

188. doesn't work

they manage to slip through anyway. The tactic of late is private name/private number!

[B Calm]

190. Best suggestion on the entire thread!

[MattBaggins]

209. LoL. No one honors that list anymore

They laugh and hangup on you as you ask to speak to their supervisor.

[Nye Bevan]

222. Reputable companies do. But not the criminal scum of "Cardholder Services" and their ilk (nt)

[Beaverhausen]

230. I don't get any of these calls

the only calls I get are from political orgs that I already donate to or that I support.

[Nye Bevan]

39. They are CRIMINALS who are attempting to rip people off,

illegally violating the DNC list, spoofing their caller ID, and cold-calling cellphones illegally. The more "mean tricks" people play on them, the fewer suckers they will be able to rip off.

[PasadenaTrudy]

47. I set my phone

to Do Not Disturb at night. It's on, but I'm not alerted to calls or texts. When I had a landline, I didn't have the phone in the bedroom.

[Fozzledick]

158. BINGO!

I lost all respect and consideration for telemarketers when I worked the night shift and needed all the uninterrupted daytime sleep I could get.

[jsr]

23. Just let them talk to the table/counter

[Barack_America]

26. I don't always answer the phone, but when I do.....

...I say, "sorry, not interested" and hang-up.

[sufrommich]

34. Nobody grows up hoping to be a telemarketer.

That's what I try to remember when I get those calls.Somebody had to take this miserable job and probably doesn't like doing it anymore that I like the call. I just politely say "not interested,thanks" and hang up. It's like tormenting a grocery clerk because you aren't happy with the cost of groceries,you're aiming at the wrong person.

[Nye Bevan]

45. The difference is, the grocery clerk is a legitimate worker, but these telemarketers are criminals,

at least the ones who violate the DNC list, cold-call cellphones, and spoof their caller ID so it looks like they are calling from Montana or Wyoming. Burglarizing houses is a pretty "miserable job" too but I would not be polite if I found someone in my house attempting to rob me.

[sufrommich]

49. Yes, those minimun wage workers

at the telemarketing companies are really there because they're evil and enjoy it immensely. They probably stomp puppies while reading Mein Kamph too.Not really,they're just desperate for a job and working for shitty companies.

[Nye Bevan]

74. Not just "shitty companies". "Criminal" companies.

Yes, people are desperate for jobs, but no, they should not turn to crime as a result. These people LIE. They pretend to represent the credit card companies. They pretend to know that I have an "excellent payment history" when they don't know SQUAT about me, except that they called my number at random and want to get my CC number so they can rip me off for a few hundred dollars.

I have ZERO sympathy for these lying, cheating, lawbreaking SCUM.

[reflection]

189. Hold on.

Are you telling me there's a job out there that will allow me to stomp puppies and read 'Mein Kampf'? I'm quitting this shitty job right now and looking for THAT one.

[ArnoldLayne]

35. I worked as a Telemarketer for awhile that stuff

Never bothered us. Actually it was kind of funny. We had horn blowers, toilet flushers, whistle blowing and the cussing people. Made sure they would get a call back later or undecided at the moment. The nice and polite people we chose the option not interested or do not call back.

[Iggo]

40. ^^^ This.

[Nye Bevan]

41. Did you work for a reputable company that respected the DNC list, did not spoof caller ID,

and was actually selling a legitimate product as opposed to trying to rip people off? Because the callers we are discussing in this thread do not fall into this category.

[Beaverhausen]

72. well who are we talking about?

The only 'telemarketer' call I get anymore are from political organizations to which I have donated money in the past.

That is legal.

Fortunately I have caller ID so I don't answer if I don't recognize the number or if the caller ID is blocked.

[Nye Bevan]

84. If "Cardholder Services" rings no bells for you, you are very, very lucky.

The political organizations can legally call people (even people on the Federal DNC) until you ask them not to. These people I ask politely to take me off their list. Charities too.

The subject of this thread is the "Rachel from Card Services" type of call where they randomly call numbers, illegally ignore the Federal and state DNC lists, illegally cold call cellphones, lie to people by pretending to represent Visa and Mastercard, pretend to know your payment history, and whose ultimate goal is to get your real CC number so they can rip you off for a few hundred bucks.

[Brettongarcia]

282. I second that one. I was called HUNDREDS of times by these guys; and nothing stopped them

By the way, I spend some time tracking them down; and put my findings on the internet. My number #1 suspects, were the major banks and issued credit cards. Once a year they send you a required form from "Cardmember services," where you are allowed to opt out of some - but not all - sales calls from your bank, and "associates" or "affiliates." Who try to sell you lower rates on your credit card debt, especially.

I think that what is happening in the call from Rachael or "Heather" is that banks are trying to consolidate your credit card debt, and pay it off with a bank loan, at a (for a while) lower interest rate. In this way, they lower your payments allegedly - and they take business away from the Credit Card companies, and move it into their bank.

This COULD be legitimate. But it turns out that the sales "affiliates" (or "associates"?), are high pressure, illegal a'holes. They change numbers and even company names, dozens of times, to evade detection by legal authority.

Rumor is though that "Heather" at least, was busted.

In the meantime? The best move is for us to start a class action suit against probably the banks; say tens of millions of dollars for their turning our phone numbers over to "associates" or "affiliates" who use very illegal methods.

[ArnoldLayne]

89. Yes they were reputable. I was on strike at the Steel Mill I worked at. I did telemarketing for 4

months. We tried to sell Caller ID for US West, credit cards for MBNA and long distance for Quest Communications. It was a pain but better then delivering heavy furniture for Value City for 2 months at 41 years of age. Plus 75% of the workforce were young women in their late 20's and 30's all sitting beside you, exactly what you see on that photo and across from you. I was not married at the time so I would say it was not all that bad.

[Nye Bevan]

91. OK, that is not the kind of telemarketer that is the subject of this thread.

We are talking about criminals who spoof caller ID, don't respect any DNC lists, don't maintain their own DNC list, illegally cold-call cellphones, and tell any lies they can (about representing Visa and Mastercard for example) in pursuit of their goal of getting your credit card number so they can steal hundreds of dollars from you.

[ArnoldLayne]

124. Oh ok I see what you mean. We were being monitored by QA at random anyways. But no

nothing illegal and no lying at all, just trying to get by until our Steel Strike was over.

[MattBaggins]

211. So you chose to work the dickiest job you could

and chose to be an even greater dick about it and think it's funny?

You're the reason i have no respect for them and feel they should be publicly shamed for being telemarketers.

[Egnever]

299. Exactly!

This guy admits he was an asshole and ignored the DNC list and his co employees did the same and laughed about it. But they are poor workers so we should be nice to them.

FUCK THAT!

[Holly_Hobby]

38. I say, "Hello?"

When they start their spiel, I answer in Polish swear words (cuz my Polish grandparents always swore in Polish) and my only language is English. They give up quickly and hang up.

[El_Johns]

43. Why would I want to "torment" low wage workers.

[Nye Bevan]

46. Because they are CRIMINALS. They violate the DNC list, they cold-call cellphones which is illegal,

and they spoof their caller ID, all while trying to rip off elderly or naive people. Maybe if enough people "torment" these criminals they will decide to pursue legitimate employment.

[El_Johns]

51. The workers aren't the criminals.

"No thank you" & hang up works just fine.

[Nye Bevan]

70. Actually it doesn't. You think these criminals go to the trouble of maintaining their own DNC list,

when they don't even obey the Federal one? They just call numbers at random.

[El_Johns]

250. The workers don't choose which numbers to call. They're automatic dialed for them. The company

sets that up.

[OldEurope]

75. That works for you and me, but

my elderly mother, who has Alzheimer's, was repeatedly talked into some strange and expensive contracts. And I had a strong feeling that the employees knew exactly what they did. This was not only annoying, this was criminal.

Meanwhile, according to EU laws, such contracts are invalid unless confirmed in written form, so she is on the safe side now.

[Nye Bevan]

77. And the more people like me who deliberately waste these criminals' time,

the less time they will have to rip off Alzheimer's sufferers.

[baldguy]

81. That's just it - They're not criminals & you're not wasting ther time.

Being a childish asshole may give you some short-term juvenile satisfaction, but it does nothing to further your goals.

[Nye Bevan]

87. The more of their time I waste, the less time they have to rip off Alzheimer's sufferers,

as well as the elderly and the naive.

[Orrex]

106. Do you really see such petty trickery as some sort of noble campaign?

Golly--I wish that I could have such a grand view of my own mundane diversions.

At best, you are wasting a few minutes of a few workers' time. If you think that such foolish efforts act as any sort of deterrent or have any sort of impact on their bottom line, then you have a wildly over-inflated opinion of your own significance.

[Nye Bevan]

112. Again. The time they spend on the phone with me is time that they are not ripping people off (nt)

[Orrex]

116. The time that they spend on the phone with you is measured in scant minutes

Assuming that they are in fact criminals abusing Alzheimer's patients, then your schemes will at best delay the hypothetical ripoff that you imagine, and it won't delay it by much.

Your approach to this tells me that you have no idea how an outbound call center works.


You're welcome to continue in your misguided efforts, of course, but in the grand scheme you are wasting much more of your own time than theirs.

[Nye Bevan]

119. Judging by this thread, I am not the only person who wastes their time.

The more people who waste their time, the less profitable their criminal scams become and the fewer people they are able to target. Ideally, enough people would waste their time that they decide that being scammers is not worth it and pursue a legitimate business venture.

[Orrex]

132. Yeah, probably not.

Again, assuming that they are indeed criminal scams, then you'd need to mobilize an absolutely enormous team of dedicated time-wasters tasked with magnanimously standing by on the wildly unlikely event that they do in fact get that call. You're talking about thousands upon thousands upon thousands of person-hours wasted in hope of causing one allegedly fraudulent agency to be delayed by a few minutes.

Your efforts, even if coordinated with the half dozen eager participants on this thread, are preposterously ineffective. If those companies even notice that you exist--which is doubtful--you'll be an amusing footnote at the end of an otherwise uninterrupted day of outbound calls.


Keep at it, if it makes you feel better, but don't kid yourself into thinking that it's making any difference at all to these hypothetical companies.

[Nye Bevan]

134. Google it. There are many people out there doing the same thing.

Who knows how many vulnerable people have been saved from being scammed?

[Orrex]

138. Probably close to zero.

There are many people out there doing the same thing.

You realize that we're talking about hundreds of millions of potentially targeted phone numbers, right?

Assuming that these scams exist and persist in spite of your ludicrously herculean efforts, one can only conclude that your dabbling has no meaningful effect upon the bottom line.


Again, don't kid yourself. Or continue kidding yourself. It makes no difference to me or to the companies that you claim are criminal.

[Nye Bevan]

139. Yeah....

https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=telemarketer+revenge&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGLL_enUS399US400&ie=UTF-8

[Orrex]

150. Well, three things.

1. Those results are meaningless. They're a list of so-called ways to annoy telemarkets, rather than any indication that such foolish tactics have any impact.

2. Your link didn't give much if any evidence of an conspiracy of evil, phone-spoofing Alzheimer's abusers, so the stated goal of your campaign seems all the more preposterous.

3. Even if you had a statistically meaningful chance of having any impact at all (which you don't), then your nonsensical ploy would still fail because anyone who works on phones for a living is well-armored against such silliness.

[Nye Bevan]

153. Check out post 75 in this thread for an example of an Alzheimer's sufferer being ripped off.

And if I can keep them on the phone for 20-30 minutes without any intention of ever letting them rip me off, they are not quite so "well-armored" as they would like to be.

[Orrex]

162. Look, I hate to break this to you, but you really have no sense of how things work.

Even if you "make a telemarketer cry," which I doubt, then there will be a whole room full of teammates ready to call.

Your delusion is that your 20-30 minutes spent on the phone will prevent the Alzheimer's patient from receiving a call. Even if you waste your own time in that fashion, the person in the next cube will happily call the patient instead. Your effort is meaningless.

And you're also deluding yourself if you think that you can meaningfully keep a caller on the line for half an hour. There are ways of ending such calls, and you seem also to think that the callers are idiots with no experience at this game.


I can see that it's important to you to feel important, and you might in fact be important in some way.
But your weird, misguided and futile phone campaign ain't it.

[Nye Bevan]

165. Oh, I have kept them on the phone for half an hour.

It's not that difficult when they think that they have someone naive or vulnerable on the phone who they can rip off. And these people are working for a finite, fixed amount of time; the more people waste their time, the fewer vulnerable people they will be able to victimize. I am not sure how that is so difficult to understand.

[Orrex]

179. It's not hard to understand at all, so I'm amazed that you don't understand it.

You didn't keep them on the line for half an hour. They stayed on the line for half an hour.
They realized that they had a rube on the line and realized also that it would spare them from having to make their next call. If anything, you were doing them a favor even as you kidded yourself into thinking that you're having an impact. This is the part about you not understanding how things work.

the more people waste their time, the fewer vulnerable people they will be able to victimize.

I know that you believe that, but that's also the part about you not understanding how things work.

If these criminal enterprises exist as you imagine them to exist, then they already have more potential victims in the queue than they can handle. Your petty delay is just that: a petty delay. Even if you stop Caller A from reaching a supposed victim, Caller B in the adjacent cube will call the victim instead.

You aren't "stopping" anything. You're a tiny speedbump in one lane of a thousand-lane highway.

[Nye Bevan]

183. "More potential victims than they can handle". Bingo.

In other words, they do not have the resources to target every potential victim. The more of their time gets wasted, the more potential victims don't get scammed by them. And I know you keep talking about a second scammer in the next cube, but the total amount of calling time is still finite. Let's say that there are 5 scammers in 5 adjacent cubes, each working an 8 hour shift. That's a total of 40 scamming hours available. If me and say four or five other people each waste 30 minutes of scamming time, then their scamming hours have been reduced from 40 to 37. And yes, people will still get ripped off by these criminals, but fewer of them.

[Orrex]

195. But your efforts are still meaningless

If these vast criminal enterprises exist as you describe, then they already account for jokers trying to gum up the works. At best, you have an infinitessimal chance of creating a slight delay. If that's how you want to spend your time, then go for it.

And the funny part is you will never know even if your efforts had any impact at all. All you can do is recognize that you have almost no chance of making a dent and then kid yourself into thinking you made a difference.

There are better windmills to tilt at.


This will be my last post on this subject because you simply don't understand, you are unwilling to understand, and you are proud of not understanding. So be it.

[Nye Bevan]

197. Very reminiscent of the "my vote won't make a difference" arguments.

Why should I bother voting when there is an infinitesimal chance of my vote making a difference? And if I happen to not have anything better to do and a criminal scammer happens to call, why not at least temporarily halt his scammy criminal activities?

[Orrex]

215. Okay, I lied. *This* will be my last post on the subject.

Lest someone accidentally think that your analogy made any sense.

Very reminiscent of the "my vote won't make a difference" arguments.

Why should I bother voting when there is an infinitesimal chance of my vote making a difference?

That analogy is invalid because a large number of voters have a tiny number of candidate choices and will participate collectively in a 50/50 decision (in the case of a presidential election, for instance). In your heroic phone scheme, a tiny number of voters face an astronomical number of permutations with an infinitessimal chance of participating in any one outcome. You have no way to control the content, timing, or impact of the calls.

Your analogy would work only if each of the 200 million voters were voting randomly for randomly-selected anonymous candidates and without ever learning the results.

And if I happen to not have anything better to do and a criminal scammer happens to call, why not at least temporarily halt his scammy criminal activities?

You are of course free to spend your time that way if you wish, but you're deluding yourself if you think that you're having more than an infinitessimal impact.

[Nye Bevan]

220. The point is that while each individual participant has a small effect on the larger outcome,

many individuals acting together can have a significant effect. Whether you're talking about voters deciding an election or people deciding to act against scammy criminal telemarketers and screw up the economics of their business model.

[ArnoldLayne]

244. Just say NOT INTERESTED and hang up. This is about the 10th time I have said this but Noooo!!

No one wants to listen.

[Egnever]

300. They arent?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4340467

This guy admits when he got someone mad about them calling he would mark them down to be called back. Then he and his pals would laugh about it.

They are the criminals every bit as much as the company itself.

You want to sign up for telemarketing work where you call people and bug them you shouldn't be the least bit surprised when people are rude to you.

[El_Johns]

305. Any evidence that is the norm in the industry? Because if not, I can make the same charge that

nurses, for example, are criminals -- since there have been cases where nurses purposefully killed people or infected them with HIV, etc.

But I'm sure you'll be very effective smearing workers rather than the corporations that set the policy and the legislators that make the policies legal.

[ProfessorGAC]

78. Agency Law Would Suggest Otherwise

Smith and Roberson's Business Law, by Mann and Roberts. Part III, chapters 19 and 20.
GAC

[Nye Bevan]

90. "Caller ID spoofing now illegal in the US"

http://www.dailytech.com/Caller+ID+Spoofing+Now+Illegal+in+the+US/article18138.htm

[L0oniX]

63. Federal "do not call" list is your friend. Register your phone number.

[kristopher]

68. The DNC registry is toothless.

It is fast becoming worthless.

[Nye Bevan]

76. The criminal lying scum simply ignore the DNC list. Also, they illegally cold-call cellphones.

And they spoof their caller ID so you can't tell where they are calling from.

[baldguy]

172. If they're calling your cell phone, then your cell phone provider sold it to them.

Or someone you've done business with sold it to them.

You really have no clue how these things work. Do you?

[Nye Bevan]

173. No. They simply call random numbers without caring what kind of phone it is.

You think lying, caller-ID-spoofing criminals would really pay good money to a cellphone provider for a list of numbers when they can have their computer auto-dial hundreds of randomly generated numbers per minute and get flagged when someone picks one of these calls up?

Here's a link to the FCC site so that you can learn about how these things work:

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/unwanted-telephone-marketing-calls

Automatic Telephone Dialing Systems and Artificial or Prerecorded Voice Calls

The FCC has specific rules for automatic telephone dialing systems, also known as “autodialers.” These devices can be particularly annoying and generate many consumer complaints. The rules regarding automatically dialed and prerecorded calls apply whether or not you have registered your home phone number(s) on the national Do-Not-Call list.

Autodialers can produce, store and dial telephone numbers using a random or sequential number generator. They often place artificial (computerized) or prerecorded voice calls. The use of autodialers, including predictive dialers, often results in abandoned calls – hang-ups or “dead air.”

[baldguy]

177. Like I said, you have no clue how these things work.

You're referencing the annoyance of autodialers and robocallers leaving prerecorded messages while you advocate harassing real, live human beings.

[B Calm]

178. Most of those autodialers and robocallers at the end of their message ask you to push 1 or 2,

then when they answer you blast them with an air horn!

[Nye Bevan]

181. Again, I have extensive experience in this.

You press "1" when the autodialer calls you, to speak to a live person. You then pretend to be interested in their scam and waste their time for as long as possible which means that they have less time available to scam genuinely vulnerable people.

[OregonBlue]

80. My son, who is bi-polar, worked as a telemarketer because it was the only job he could get.

He was given a list of numbers to call by the company he worked for. It was an awful job and I talked him into quitting because he came home so depressed every day. People were so rude (understandably, I hate them too) but he was just trying to make a buck.

Remember, these people are just trying to make a living. Be polite. Tell them to take you off their list. Tell them not to call you again.

If they keep calling, tell them you want to speak to their supervisor!!

[Nye Bevan]

93. The criminals that we are talking about in this thread will simply hang up and ignore your request,

and next time their random dialer happens to pick your number, they will call again. And when they luck out and get someone stupid, old, or suffering from Alzheimer's on the phone, they will rip them off for hundreds of dollars.

[Fozzledick]

83. Memorize and recite the following script:

We never respond to telemarketing for any reason. We consider it an unacceptable nuisance. Please remove us from your list and do not call again.

Adjust wording and tone of voice as needed according to how offensive the call is. Reasonable charities get a polite and almost apologetic tone, obnoxious scammers get an angry but disciplined "Remove us from your list and DO NOT CALL AGAIN!"

[baldguy]

86. But behaving like a giggling 5th grader feels SO MUCH better!

[Fozzledick]

111. That's fine if you have the time and patience for it.

When I'm in the mood to play with an obvious scammer I just keep interrupting their script with endless questions: Who are you? Is that your real name? Why are you calling me? How did you get this number? Where are you located? Why would I want that? Why doesn't that make any sense?

[Nye Bevan]

88. They will simply hang up, ignore everything you said,

and next time their random call dialer happens to pick your number you will get another call.

[Fozzledick]

97. I find it actually works pretty well with a live person

and requires a minimum of effort and emotional reaction.

Robocalls are another matter.

[Nye Bevan]

99. If it is a reputable company it should work.

But if you are on the Federal DNC list (or if they are cold-calling a cellphone) they are already breaking the law (unless they are a political organization or a charity or possibly some other nonprofit entity) and such a lawbreaking company is very unlikely to respect your request.

[Fozzledick]

103. Actually they usually get discouraged once it's clear I'm not buying it.

Repeat callers get a brisk "Why are you calling me again? I told you before to take me off your list!" and that usually does it.

[Nye Bevan]

113. Their random robo-dialer *will* call you again (nt)

[baldguy]

149. Which means your juvenile tactics have failed.

Meanwhile you've made the life of the young, single mother trying to get by (who make up the majority of the staff for these call centers) just that much more miserable. If that make you happy, you're not a Democrat.

[Nye Bevan]

151. No. All the time they spent talking to me they were not ripping off an Alzheimer's sufferer (nt)

[baldguy]

164. Characterizing every call center worker as "ripping off an Alzheimer's sufferer" is insanity.

And those call centers will always exist as long as they are profitable for the corporations that employ them - and they will be as long as the general public has personal phones.

Admit it: you're a sadistic child.

[Nye Bevan]

167. Not "every call center worker". Just the "Rachel from Card Services" type criminals (nt)

[baldguy]

191. You're characterizing every call center worker as a criminal, subject to vile treatment

Nowhere in the OP, in any of your replies, or any of the links you've provided do you show any distinction between those you call "criminals" and any of the other call center workers, nor do you present any indication on how such a label is determined.

If you met them on the street, would you shoot them?

[Nye Bevan]

196. I'm sorry if I did not make it clear that I do not have a problem with legitimate telemarketers.

I'm fine with companies that respect the federal and state DNC lists (as well as charities and political organizations which are exempt), maintain their own DNC lists and respect DNC requests, and do not spoof caller ID. When charities or political organizations call me I am very polite and simply ask them to remove me from their list, which they generally do.

What I hate are the DNC-ignoring, caller-ID-spoofing, lying criminals who attempt to get credit card numbers through deception so that they can rip people off. As for your "would you shoot them" question, my answer is "no", but I would love to see these scum face the appropriate criminal and civil penalties for their actions.

[B Calm]

171. Respectful Call Centers do not call you if you're on the do not call list.

[baldguy]

174. Harrassing a telemarketer doesn't get you on a DNC list.

and the DNCR doesn't cover businesses you have a previous relationship with. That's where a great majority of the call lists come from - previous business relationships.

[B Calm]

154. Now your calling people who hate telemarketers not democrats! OMG

[baldguy]

159. People who hate low-wage workers because they're low-wage workers are not Democrats.

The Democratic Party supports justice for workers, not harassment of them.

[B Calm]

163. Have you ever wanted to say to someone, who makes you the judge?

[Nye Bevan]

160. Not an uncommon tactic on DU. "No *real* Democrat would disagree with my point!" (nt)

[B Calm]

166. LOL +1

[godevil10]

92. Sometimes I answer in a very

feeble, weak voice and say, "Are you the one who is supposed to bring me my medicine," that's usually the end of the phonecon.

[IDemo]

94. Attempt to sell them your new book "How to Succeed at Telemarketing" n/t

[raccoon]

96. If you're getting your kicks doing childish tricks to low-wage workers, you need to get a life. nt

[Nye Bevan]

100. Not so much "getting kicks" as "wasting their time so they have less time to rip people off".

If they spend 20 minutes talking to me that's 20 less minutes of their time to attempt to rip off old people and Alzheimer's sufferers.

[dipsydoodle]

107. Just used to say :

"I'm busy - give me your home phone number and I'll call you"

[Lint Head]

108. I answer by speaking in a phony foriegn language. Gibberish from the country of Gib.

I have had some very interesting experiences doing that. It's hard to keep my composure. One caller actually started to chant a phrase over and over as if I had said something evil. When I would talk in a Gibberish tone, as if to question why he was chanting, the chant would get louder as if to ward off the evil phrase. I did not have my recorder running. Wish I had. It would be a You Tube classic by now.

[Fozzledick]

140. The Necronomicon has some interesting curses in ancient Sumarian...

Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:20 AM - Edit history (1)

[steve2470]

229. ok you have me cracking up !!!!!

Funniest thing I've seen on DU in months ! Thank you !

[Atman]

110. I got rid of my land line almost ten years ago...no telemarketers.

The only people who call my phone now are the Democrats since I donated to Obama! LOL!

[Nye Bevan]

128. "Card services" calls cellphones with impunity. You are very lucky (nt)

[MineralMan]

118. Who has time for that?

I check the Caller ID. If it's a toll-free number, I just let it ring. If I don't recognize the number, I'll pick up. The moment I know it's a telemarketer, I simply hang up without saying anything more.

I wouldn't waste my time pranking those people. In the first place, they're working. In the second, it's a waste of my own time.

Just don't answer or just hang up. It's so simple.

[Nye Bevan]

121. Often I don't, but when I am doing something like the exercise bike,

or idly surfing DU, I am perfectly capable of multitasking to annoy these criminals and reduce the number of vulnerable people they can target. I have done it so many times I even have a fake Mastercard number memorized, and a couple of 1-800 sex lines to give them when they ask for the customer service number on the back of the card so that they can call to access my account.

[ScreamingMeemie]

120. As a young single mom, I worked telephones for market research for 3 years...

No, I wasn't a CRIMINAL... I was trying to feed my daughter.
No, I wasn't calling after 9 p.m... I was trying to clothe my daughter.
No, I wasn't calling just to irritate you... I was trying to keep a roof over our heads.

It was my 2nd job (of 3, because I was "uniquely American to quote GWB). It kept us above water, and I appreciate the respondents who were always kind to me.

To spend this kind of time to torment a person who is working for little to nothing, says more about the respondent than the supposed "CRIMINAL," who doesn't own the company at all and is possibly trying to squeeze in yet another link of the chain to make the ends meet.

Ringers can be turned off.

[Nye Bevan]

123. But you were working for a legitimate company, not "Rachel from Card Services".

Your employer did not disregard the Federal or state do-not-call lists.

When someone asked you not to call them you respected this and put them on your internal do-not-call list.

You were not instructed to lie to people (about representing Visa or Mastercard for example) so that you could try to get them to reveal their credit card number so that your employer could rip them off.

Your employer did not spoof the caller ID so it looked like you were calling from Wyoming or North Dakota.

Your employer was not a criminal, and neither were you. We are talking about criminal scammers who break the law, lie outright, and cheat elderly and vulnerable people out of their savings.

[ScreamingMeemie]

125. I have yet to receive a call like that ever.

I answer the phone with each call, and I have never been "scammed." I see a lot of people displaying all sorts of idiotic and immature behavior toward legitimate phone calls which far outweigh the "illegitimate."

[Nye Bevan]

126. You are incredibly lucky. You should be very thankful (nt)

[ScreamingMeemie]

127. I like to think I'm incredibly mature (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

129. Judging by your DU persona, you are indeed extremely mature.

One of the most mature posters on DU, even. I am not sure, however, if this somehow enables you to escape "Rachel from Card Services" random robo-dialers.

[Blue Diadem]

182. We very seldom get legitimate telemarketer calls

The scamming calls run in spurts, from several a day for a week or so then nothing for a while. "Rachel from card services" was a big one for years, every time they've been stopped legally, they re-invent themselves. Now all they say is "this is your last chance, to speak with a live representative press # . " The Microsoft/Windows tech scam is another one. "your computer is sending us errors" while they attempt to convince you to allow them access to your computer and give them money to fix it. Last one I had was another "tech" who said my windows license had expired and I needed to buy another one.
You're lucky you don't get those. I've had them as early as 5:30 in the morning and as late as 10:00pm.

[Nye Bevan]

184. Anyone on the DNC list *never* gets a "legitimate" telemarketer call,

except for charities and political organizations. And these latter two are generally good about placing you on their internal DNC, and there is no reason not to be polite to them. If you are on the DNC, however, and someone cold-calls you who is not a charity or political organization, you can proceed from the outset under the assumption that you are being targeted by criminals (especially when the caller ID is spoofed, which is usually the case).

[Blue Diadem]

203. Good to know the DNC list works.

I just wish something could be done to the scammers. It's difficult to block calls when they keep changing their number.

[Nye Bevan]

205. They have (illegal) caller ID spoofers

that generate totally random numbers for your caller ID. Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota..... you name it.

[SeattleVet]

258. ^^^^^^ THIS!!!! ^^^^^^^^

Since I am on the DNC list, the ONLY calls (other than the exempt charities, polling, and political calls - but they have their OWN set of rules to follow) that we get are the illegally calling scammers. They are already breaking the law; they don't care about the DNC list. The legitimate telemarketers *follow* the law and filter their number lists through the DNS list every 30 days, as required by law. The crooks call at random.

People need to understand this. These callers are all criminals. The last one that got through to me started complaining about the language I was using in describing their ancestry, current familial sexual relationships, and the sorry state of their genitalia. I offered to transfer the call to the police department if they wanted to make a formal complaint against me. For some unknown reason they declined.

Yes, there are legitimate telemarketers; they are still usually bottom-feeding companies exploiting their sub-minimum wage workers, but I never hear from them because they don't start out by breaking the law to try to reach me.

[William769]

122. Telemarketer Revenge

[murray hill farm]

130. Just call the Do Not Call list and add your phone number.

It really does work...and will stop the calls. It takes about 30 seconds for the call and must be made on the phone that you want to place on the list. The number is [phone].

[Nye Bevan]

136. The scammers being discussed here are criminals who totally disregard the DNC,

and also break the law by cold-calling cellphones and spoofing caller ID.

The Federal DNC is good advice however, as it will at least stop reputable companies from cold-calling.

[NCTraveler]

131. These people are doing a job.

Probably not their first choice of employment. It is often a very stressful job. Why fuck with them? Maybe these people are getting so many calls because one of the metrics the center uses is how long the person stayed on the phone.

[Nye Bevan]

137. The callers being discussed here lie to people and attempt to get their credit card number

in order to rip them off. Their caller ID is spoofed and they ignore the Do Not Call list. They deserve to have their time wasted to reduce the number of vulnerable folks they can rip off.

[NCTraveler]

144. Much of what you say is not found in the article.

These are actions that you think would make someone a night in shining armor for the "vulnerable folks they can rip off".

"They deserve to have their time wasted to reduce the number of vulnerable folks they can rip off."

[Nye Bevan]

155. See the second paragraph which mentions "Rachel from Cardholder Services".

This is the prototype of the scamming, lying, DNC-ignoring, caller ID-spoofing, type of criminal that is the subject of this thread.

[NCTraveler]

161. It is very clear that this is meant to be an indictment on all telemarketers.

That is obvious.

[Nye Bevan]

168. I certainly don't indict all telemarketers.

Charities, for example, are exempt from the Federal DNC list. When a charity calls me I politely ask them to put me on their internal DNC list; by law, they have to do this, and they generally respect my request.

[CBGLuthier]

135. I would not abuse an ordinary TM, but when that little bastard calls saying he is from Microsoft

and my computer is sending odd information over the internet I call him every name I can think of for daring to assume I am stupid enough to believe his dribble.

Fuck the scammers. if I could kill them by pushing *86 I would do it without hesitation.

[Nye Bevan]

142. Oh, I have never got one of those calls but I would *so* waste the guy's time.

"Oh really... a virus? So what does that do? What is that? Let me just reboot my computer.... OK.... still rebooting..... still rebooting..... oh hold on, someone's at the door, but PLEASE hold on I am SO worried about that virus......"

[Fozzledick]

187. Those are the ones I've been getting lately, from "the technical support department"

Trying to trick me into letting them load a Trojan malware downloader onto my computer and then sell me more malware to supposedly clean it off.

Those people are criminal scum and deserve no consideration whatsoever.

For awhile I amused myself by stringing them along with endless questions about what they wanted to do and why, but eventually that got tiresome and I'd just tell them to go fuck themselves. That actually ended the calls.

[SeattleVet]

259. I just tell those 'tech support' scammers that I have "national security information"

on my system and will have to transfer their call to the local police department for permission to make any changes. They never want to tell their story to the police, and usually hang up right away. I had one woman *begging* me not to get the police involved. I told her that if she ever called again the call was going directly to the local precinct.

[pipi_k]

275. I think this is where

the confusion/misunderstandings come in when people are talking about telemarketers vs solicitors.

Some of them are selling real, actual products...not trying to scam people. The calls are annoying, but at least they're not like the solicitors/criminals out to scam money from the naive or unwary.

Those, IMO, are the ones who absolutely deserve whatever nastiness people want to throw at them. I really can't see how most of them wouldn't know that what they're doing is absolute scumbaggery. Would they fall for their own lines? Probably not.

Anyway, I once had one of those little assholes call me, also, to say that my Windows program was malfunctioning. I said, "Oh, really? What version of Windows am I using right now?" **Silence** So I repeated myself. To which the shithead said, "Oh, my!!" and then hung up on me.

Oh really...he knows my MS Windows is malfunctioning, but can't tell me which version I'm using? Piss off.


In addition, there are the lowest of scumbags...at the very bottom of the scumbag barrel...the ones who call the elderly to say that a grandchild is in a foreign country, has been robbed, and needs money to get home...please send money to me through Western Union...wah wah wah!

I'm waiting for the day we ever get one of these calls...one way of flushing these pigs out is to start talking about fictional relatives..."Oh my...did you call Uncle _____ (nobody by that name in the family)?" or, "How much do you think it will cost to get back home to ______ (where the "grandkid" doesn't even live)?"

that's when the "grandkid" gets a super high-power whistle blasted into his ear and good riddance.

[Arkansas Granny]

152. Telemarketing is not a job that most people take by choice. There's no need to get ugly

with someone who's just working for a living. If you get a call from a telemarketer, just say not interested and hang up.

[B Calm]

156. I like you Arkansas Granny, but have you ever worked the midnight shift?

[Arkansas Granny]

212. I worked and raised 4 kids by myself. Does that equal a 24 hour shift?

[B Calm]

216. Then you know what it's like to have someone call you and wake up the baby!

[Whisp]

176. why would I want to torment someone who already has a shity job?

that's arrogant and snobbish and to all those that take glee in this, I hope one day you have that shitty, low paying job and get tormented yourself.

geeze.

[Carolina]

185. the calls are an intrusive

nuisance.

I am annoyed by those who solicit my home without regard for my circumstances: illness, or caring for an elderly relative, or a tending a sleeping/napping grandbaby.

If I want a service or product, I will seek it. PERIOD

I am sorry some people have to do this kind of work, but anyone in telemarketing in the 21st century should know that the calls they make are as annoying to the recipients as gnats, fleas and mosquitoes, etc. Accordingly, the can expect to be treated as such pests.

[Carolina]

180. Calls from unknown

name/unknown number, from any 800 or toll free number, or from private name/private number go unanswered, the answering machine takes care of them. However, when such calls come at 8:00 AM on a weekend or holiday or after 8:00 PM any day, I don't wait for the 4 rings 'til the machine intervenes. I pick up, then hang up. No hello; no thank you, but I'm not interested; no nothing... Pick up, hang up. I don't want to talk to these people and their calls are intrusive, especially early morning and late evening.

When my beagle was still living, I'd do a trick to encourage his beagle howl (love that sound; miss it and him) then put the answered phone by his muzzle.

I used to get a lot of solicitation calls, but with the pick up/hang up technique, they have become few and far between.

[GoCubsGo]

233. Caller ID is one of mankind's greatest inventions.

I haven't done the pick up/hang up thing, but I think I may start. There's a local "unknown" that has been calling lately, and hangs up just as my answering machine message completes. This has been happening almost daily.

Getting an unpublished phone number helps, as well.

[zappaman]

186. I like to get flirty with them

regardless if they are a man or woman.
"What's your name? You sound hot? Are you single?"
Always fun!

[ArnoldLayne]

201. Oh yea I got that too. I am straight but I had Men and Women trying to hit on me.

[ArnoldLayne]

193. kick

[tazkcmo]

206. Don't be an ass

Just hang up.

[ArnoldLayne]

210. I've been trying to tell everyone that for 4 hours but no one will listen.

[B Calm]

214. The only ass, is the one doing the calling! These no good bastards

are all con artists! If they want to open up a respectful business on a street corner, or on the internet and advertise without invading my privacy, I'm all for it. If I want their product, I'll go to them!

[tazkcmo]

227. What ever gets you through the day.

Invading your privacy by calling you? So, I'm a no good bastard, con artist? AS is Xerox? Motorola? Ford? All companies I have done telemarketing for. People that need to abuse other folks that are dong these jobs are the petty, small minded, ignorant and insecure asses.

[B Calm]

234. That's the problem, some have to sleep through the day!

These crooks you're defending are breaking US Law.

[tazkcmo]

235. Which law?

Wait, am I the bastard con artist or is it the corporations that hire me? I'm pretty sure you called me the con artist bastard. I also worked nights but never belittled somebody for not knowing that I worked nights. How are they supposed to know? I guess what's important is for you to get to demean a stranger so you can have that satisfying, smug feeling.

Which law? The law that says we can only call from 8 am to 9 pm local time and not at all on Sunday?
have you contacted your state AG? Or have you been too busy cussing out some poor working stiff that's just trying to get their rent paid so you feel all superior?

[B Calm]

237. Do you ignore the do not call list?

That's who I'm talking about!

[tazkcmo]

239. So did you contact your state

AG? No? Instead, you take it out on the working stiff that has zip to do with compiling the list or anything to do with assigning callers to particular lists or areas. Maybe you should try to B Calm and ask to speak to their supervisor? B Calm and file complaints with you state AG? B Calm and NOT abuse the the marketer who is a human being after all.

Don't bother responding. I'm going to B Calm and put you on ignore because you have no empathy towards your fellow human being and I refuse to let you puke all over me. Congratulations, you're my first.

[B Calm]

240. LOL

[tazkcmo]

226. So easy to feel superior

Person just trying to pay the rent. So, not only do they have to endure a job they'd rather not be doing, they have to put up with snotty, petty, immature, small, a-holes that must make themselves feel better by abusing a total stranger. The a-hole is the one that treats another person like trash because they had the temerity to call them and ask if they want to buy something.

[Ian David]

207. If you don't want what they're selling, use it as an opportunity to get something that YOU want...

...



Phone sex.

[ArnoldLayne]

213. Plus you are not tormenting them at all. Another call comes in via a computer and you are forgotten

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

about like last weeks newspaper.

[Nye Bevan]

221. Oh, I have made some of them *furious*.

One of them actually made a point of calling me back later in the day to berate me. Of course I asked her to hold and gently placed the phone on the table to waste her time some more until she hung up.

[ArnoldLayne]

247. That was wrong. If a supervisor heard that

They would have been sent home.

[Nye Bevan]

249. You're thinking in terms of normal reputable companies,

with procedures, rules, regulations, supervisors and management. These scammy little boiler rooms are not like that at all.

[liberal_at_heart]

223. trashing thread.

[B Calm]

224. LOL

[TeamPooka]

228. K&R!

[GoCubsGo]

231. I prefer Caller ID

If I don't recognize the number, I let my answering machine handle it.

[ArnoldLayne]

245. There you go that's the ticket

[Boom Sound 416]

236. Yeah screw 'em

For trying to have an honest job and for calling me after I purchase their employers' products.

I absolutely feel the way to remove my name from an automated contact generator is to poorly treat someone who had nothing to do with it.

[yurbud]

242. as soon as I figure out they're selling something, I say I'm not interested and hang up

without waiting for their response.

One way they "torment" people is playing on their manners: we feel bad about hanging up before the other person says good-bye.

I don't.

[ArnoldLayne]

248. Yes the best thing to is say thanks not interested

Then hang up.

[raven mad]

243. If it's a human call, my husband always speaks to them.

In Klingon. Seriously, he is one helluva Trekkie!

I simply don't answer any non-local number that is "blocked" or "unknown".

Edited because I type faster than my keyboard can handle!

[Taitertots]

252. Someone needs to write the troll app for phones. Generic comments everytime the caller stops talking

"Please tell me about that offer again"
"I would like a discount, please put your supervisor on the line"
"I'm sorry I forgot your name, please tell it to me again"

[MurrayDelph]

253. To the people who say

they aren't breaking the law, the auto-dialer is, think of it this way:

Driving isn't necessarily against the law. Being paid to drive isn't necessarily against the law. But if you're driving the getaway car your argument that you were only the driver doing an honest job ain't gonna carry much weight.

[B Calm]

260. The du political correctness police will go out

of their way and defend these con artists who ignore the do not call list.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

254. what a perfectly shitty thing to do to someone.

[Nye Bevan]

269. YES. Ignoring the DNC list, spoofing caller ID, and lying to try to get credit card numbers

so that you can scam people is indeed a perfectly shitty thing to do.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

270. That is their problem. Your actions are your issue. Don't lay your shit on me, dude.

[TlalocW]

255. Google is your friend

When I get a call from a number out of my area code, I Google it very quickly. If it's a telemarketer, normally one of the first results returned will tell you the offer/scam associated with the number so I'll pick up and offer it to them before they can say anything.

Last time I did it, it was someone "from" Microsoft calling me to tell me there was a virus on my computer so I told them I was from Microsoft, and we had detected a virus on their computer, and I was going to need to walk them through a procedure to get rid of it. Ten second pause on the other line before they said, "Thank you for your time," and hung up on me.

So because I was really concerned, I called them back 5 times until they finally blocked my number.

TlalocW

[MurrayDelph]

257. I think the next time one of these guys from "Microsoft" calls

I'm going to respond with "you sound really cute. What are you wearing?"

[TlalocW]

271. I had a friend do something like that

In the days of dial-up, he got a call from Sprint wanting him to switch over, and he made himself out to be interested yet hesitant so he started listing all the things he got with his current provider and asking if Sprint could provide that. He basically trained the operator to quickly say yes. So after asking about phone and internet bundling, one monthly bill, etc. (yes, yes, yes), he asked, "What about the 50 cents a minute phone sex?"
"Yes, we have... Excuse me?"
"Does Sprint offer the 50 cents a minute phone sex like my current provider?"
* silence *
"So... what are you wearing?"
*hangup*

TlalocW

[Kablooie]

256. Simply put this song on as a loop and leave the room.

[Puglover]

264. Why torment someone just doing their job?

I simply say, "Opps, just headed out the door on the way to work!" The end.

[B Calm]

265. Doing their job by ignoring DNC list and scamming you, you're

being funny, right?

[Puglover]

268. No it's not my job to "torment" anyone or anthing.

But hey if that does it for you, more power to you!

[B Calm]

273. The only ones doing the tormenting are the assholes doing the calling!

Egads

[Puglover]

281. Yes because turning my head

and checking out the caller ID and not answering is torment beyond description.

Egads right back atcha.

Have a nice day.

[B Calm]

283. Look at post 19

my god!

[Puglover]

284. Yeah so?

I did shift work for 30 years.

I didn't need a degree in rocket science to know that MY schedule (while on midnights) was not the norm and to turn off the ringers on the phone in the bedroom.

Again "My God! back atcha.

Reading through this moronic thread I see you hate telemarketers. Good great. Don Quixote tilted at windmills. Good for him. Torment them and by all means have fun with it! I'd go to the mat to defend your right to torment them any way you want to torment them.

Is that good enough?

I'm typing on my Ipad and I am at my home in Ecuador. Ipad is working my nerves and it is paradise outside today.

So if you don't mind. Adios!

[JPZenger]

267. Before you get them really angry, consider that many are state prison inmates

Many states have allowed telemarketing companies to operate inside their prisons, using inmates. Just keep that in mind before you get a telemarketer really really angry at you.

"...OK, Mister John Smith of 222 Oak Street... nice airhorn you had there.... I'll be out in 3 months.... let's see, I can take a bus from the prison...."

[Egalitarian Thug]

312. Oh my, the check kiter might get angry at me!

Do you really think that that poor guy gives half a shit about you, this call, or how you responded?

Quit being a terrified sucker.

[Zorra]

277. Telemarketing is a rude and unwarranted invasion of privacy for profit, and should be illegal. nt

[Nye Bevan]

278. What the "Rachel from Card Services" type scammers do *is* illegal.

They illegally spoof the caller ID to make it look like they are calling from somewhere else. They ignore the Federal and State DNC lists. They illegally cold-call cellphones (which is always illegal irrespective of whether you are on the DNC list). They lie to people and pretend that they represent Visa or Mastercard. They attempt to get people to reveal their credit card numbers so they can steal money from them.

The problem is that it is very difficult for law enforcement to find these criminal scum (which is obviously why they spoof the caller ID). Pretty much the only recourse we have is to waste these people's time so that they have less time available to scam naive or vulnerable people.

[El_Johns]

306. Yeah, right. I'm sure that your harrassment of minimum wage workers was what did the trick.

Or maybe it's just easier & more fun to mess with minimum wage workers than do something productive.

Remember "Rachel from Card Services" -- that phone call you'd receive at all hours promising to lower your credit card's interest rate?

She's hanging up her headphones.

The Mianos and their companies, which were based in Port Saint Lucie, Fla., face a judgement of $9.2 million unless they transfer all of their assets, including a 2007 Mercedes Benz, a 2012 Infiniti QX56, a 2009 Hyundai Sonata and two boats worth a combined $65,000.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2013/07/ftc_disconnects_rachel_from_ca.html

[Swede Atlanta]

279. Get caller ID

I have my VOIP phone settings to not even let anonymous calls come through so the phone never rings.

For the rest if I don't recognize the phone number or the name I don't answer. Yes it is annoying to have 2-3 calls come in some evenings right at dinner time but I realize the person on the other end of the phone is doing this to provide for themselves or their families. While I am on the DNC list I still get calls and on the few occasions I tell them that they usually give me the line that I must have opted in through some purchase, etc. They cannot, of course, identify who that someone or business was.

If I realize I have gotten repeated calls from the same number I will call the number back. Generally they have an option to remove your number from their list. If they don't then their number is saved into my phone's blocked list or will go to the settings on my VOIP and put it there. It is better to get it on the VOIP service because then the phone never rings. If you just do it in your phone it usually rings once and then shows "blocked caller".

While some of the scenarios in the OP may sound funny they are very childish. None of this has any appreciable financial impact on the companies behind the calls because they are usually paying someone in a foreign country pennies to make the calls.

If I could figure out a way to financially harm the companies behind the calls I would do it. But I can't so I navigate this as well as I can without showing disrespect to another human being.

[curlyred]

304. If you don't recognize the number, don't pick up

If you do recognize the number, call back.

How hard can this be?

[NutmegYankee]

310. Why should I have to do that in the first place?

It's MY phone. I shouldn't have to dodge certain callers on it.

It's pretty God damned simple - Don't call me for marketing!

How hard can this be?

[crash101]

307. I make them wait...

I have a whistle next to the phone. When I receive a call, here's one favorite I like to do: say, "I'm really interested, but someone's at the door, will you excuse me a minute?" and then just leave the phone off the hook and go do something else. I get back after 30 minutes. By then, they're already tired of waiting and hang up.

[crash101]

308. I have ways to annoy nuisance callers, thanks to Callercenter!

I got the tip from http://www.callercenter.com/articles/14waystoannoytelemarketers.html and getting telemarketing calls isn't as annoying anymore.

[treestar]

318. I just tell them I don't buy anything over the phone

Which is true. I would never feel comfortable spending money on anything I had not planned on and only heard about by a random phone call. To me it is strange that telemarketing is worth paying someone to do.

[LWolf]

325. There should be no reason to torment them.

A real right to privacy would mean that nobody can call your phone unless you've given them advance permission to do so, and in the case of businesses, permission to call about WHAT.

Who pays for phone service because other people have a right to intrude into your home or private life?

[B Calm]

329. Wow that's a sexist thing to say!

[chknltl]

330. What I find interesting is....

'Arnold Layne' is the title of an old Pink Floyd song. The Arnold Layne in the song was not 'man enough' to buy ladies under garments openly but instead stole them from neighborhood clotheslines. The song goes on to suggest that Arnold Layne liked dressing up in the stolen ladies apparel and was eventually busted for thievery.

[flvegan]

333. Wow. What a suck-ass way to live.

And an air-horn canister? Good grounds to get named in a lawsuit, moron.

I can't tell if this is blatant racism or just being a shitty person in general.

[ileus]

335. When my kids were younger I'd hand them the phone.

These days we do have a land line for the innerwebs but there's no phone connected.

[pipi_k]

336. Going to resurrect

this thread for a rant...


Last week a call came in, identified on the Caller ID as coming from my little rural town. In fact, it was almost identical in every way to MY phone number except for the very last digit.

It was that damned "card services" shit again. I googled the phone number and found that the owner of that number lives less than two miles from my house. I thought, OMG...is he being that much of an asshole???

Until it hits me. The telemarketers are scamming with actual phone numbers, probably chosen for each city under the premise that if it's a number similar to our own, we'll be more likely to answer it.

OK so I stopped thinking our neighbor is an asshole.

Just about ten minutes ago that number called again. Same card services bullshit. I don't answer.

Then I wonder, OMG...I wonder what information someone could get if a telemarketer used MY number?

I google my phone number. Holy shit. First result is Mr Pipi's name and our address!!!

So. If some asswipe telemarketer ever decides to fake my phone number and the person on the receiving end of the call gets really pissed off and googles it, MY address will show up. If he's not particularly bright, he may not realize it's a fake, and decide to make nasty phone calls to us. Or, if really a jackass about it, decide to inflict mayhem on my house or something. Yeah I'm in the woods, but it's easy to find using Google Maps.

I know this is likely not the fault of the individual people calling, but the fault of the companies themselves.

Fuckers.

I hate them.