Why do conservatives continue to deny there's a wage gap?

[redqueen]

As Equal Pay Act Turns 50, Conservative Media Continue Crusade Against Closing Gender Wage Gap

The Equal Pay Act was signed into law on June 10, 1963, by President Kennedy to prohibit wage discrimination based on sex. Fifty years later, as the issue of gender income inequality continues to affect America, conservative media figures have consistently tried to downplay and minimize these concerns.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/06/10/as-equal-pay-act-turns-50-conservative-media-co/194405

Obviously the effort to pretend it's not a problem resonates with many (men and women). How does this pay off with voters, though?

What kind of people find this denial of reality an attractive alternate reality?

Gender Wage Gap Remained At 77 Percent In 2012

On Tuesday, the Census Bureau released new numbers showing that the gender wage gap was 77 percent in 2012, meaning women make just 77 cents for each dollar a man makes. Median earnings for men working full-time were $49,400 while women’s were just $37,800. These numbers didn’t show any significant change from 2011 and there hasn’t been an increase since 2007.

While many factors go into the disparity between what men and women make, even accounting for factors such as job tenure, whether someone goes part-time, industry, occupation, race, and marital status can’t explain the gap. Women make less than men no matter what job they take, what industry they enter, or how much education they attain. They are paid less beginning with their first jobs out of college right up until they reach the highest ranks of their companies.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/17/2632621/gender-wage-gap/

There are people who push very hard to slice and dice the numbers to try to aid conservatives in promoting the idea that this isn't a problem.

I just wonder - why?

[Kingofalldems]

1. Because conservatives are dishonest.

After 40 yrs of following politics that is the thing that defines them to me.

[redqueen]

4. Usually there's a hook there, to attract voters.

I'm just not sure which voters agree with their take on this.

[hfojvt]

13. you don't think the 77 cents on the dollar is dishonest?

Why include that number in any discussion of a wage gap?

I think it is a nonsense number. So I will absolutely disagree that there is a 23% wage gap.

As for any other wage gap, I have worked perhaps twenty different jobs in my life and NEVER seen a wage gap.

Except maybe in the auto parts factory. Where they had men on the line, standing, hot, yanking springs out of forms, and then clamping new forms on a frame. I did that job for five days, and it was pretty brutal. i felt like I was getting the crap beat out of me. Not sure I ever would have gotten used to it. Fortunately at that time, my previous employer gave me a raise to woo me back.

Women, at that factory, on the other hand, were on "the floor". Sitting on stools, putting rubber stoppers on wires. I did that job for a day. Much easier than being on the line - and the pay was the same, even though the work was not.

I tend to think that the wage gap is mostly at the higher levels. Here is an example from a lawsuit against Wal-mart from 2001 "Women store managers, he found, made an average of $89,280 a year, $16,400 less than men."

First of all I would note that even THAT is NOT an even comparison. They make no adjustment at all for differences in the size of the stores or the amout of experience of the managers. Women there are making 84.5% of what men are making, but how do we know if the women's average years of experience is 7 and the men's is 10? Is it unfair if somebody with 70% of the experience gets paid 85%?

But the BIG thing to me is - the $90,000. In 2001, I was making $7.25 an hour as a no-benefits temp. Do you really expect me to hit the streets in protest so that people making $90,000 can make even MORE money? That simply does not seem like a huge problem from where I sit.

[El_Johns]

16. Low wage workers know there is no pay gap where they are. Those jobs and their pay rates are

rigidly controlled.

[Bradical79]

28. That's not always true.

At my store pay is pretty individualistic. We have individual employee reviews and you have to score satisfactory in all categories to get the minimum raise. If you score excellent by your manager you may get a larger raise. Most seem to start at around $8-9 an hour.

[bettyellen]

32. we get it, it's all about you.

[hfojvt]

33. is that what you get?

Or is that just all you've got?

Can't discuss facts, can't explain or defend your point of view?

Then why not just go straight to the personal attack?

Because it is clearly NOT about me. Like Regis, I am only one man. http://www.amazon.com/Only-One-Man-Regis-Philbin/dp/078688911X

In 2001, 40% of HOUSEHOLDS (sometimes with TWO incomes) made less than $40,000 a year. You think most of those households are all upset about some people who make $90,000 a year and think they should make more money?

And the 23% number is dishonest. It compares my sister to my brother-in-law. He makes more money that she does, even though she has a master's degree and he only has a bachelors.

But gee, they aren't doing the same job and they don't have the same employer.

Another fine example is Wimbledon. Wimbledon finally made the prize money equal for the men's and women's singles tennis. The funny thing is that they didn't make the work equal. Men play best of five and women play best of three. Equal pay and unequal work. Advantage women.

Clearly though that is all about me, since I, myself, have won three Wimbledon titles in men's tennis.

Time for me to come clean. I'm really Ivan Lendl.

[bettyellen]

34. "facts" about my life, like your anecdotes are meaningless. it is not just wealthy women who are

being cheated, even though that's your hunch. Look up poverty statistics, for fucks sake, instead of taking wild guesses about who is really suffering in this economy.

Next you'll tell us Beyonce made more money than her husband - and someone will tell you, yet again, that this is irrelevant.

[hfojvt]

40. look them up?

You mean, like the wealth statistics I posted a while back? http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4233608

Poverty statistics aren't going to be much more relevant than Beyonce. That would just mean that there are some (maybe lots of) women who are either unemployed or have low wage jobs, like working at Wal-mart as a checker.

But THAT does not at all prove that a woman who works at Wal-mart as a checker makes less money than a man who works at Wal-mart as a checker.

And my "hunch" was an observation - having had a number of low wage jobs where there was ZERO gender gap. Because wages at the bottom are non-negotiable. They tell you what they pay and you can either take it or leave it.

[bettyellen]

42. INACCURATE guesses you posted about INHERITED wealth are relevant to wages? like the sad little

anecdotes you post, your estimations (and miscalculations) are completely irrelevant.

And the salary being "take it or leave it"- this is another BS myth you pulled out of your ass, BUT- buying into it, is probably the reason you earn so little. Usually they say that is a "woman's problem" -not negotiating hard enough.

Ironic, eh?

[Warren Stupidity]

2. They deny anything that contradicts free market fundamentalism.

[JaneyVee]

3. Denial of facts and evidence is kinda their 'thing'.

[bettyellen]

5. they like the idea of women being kept down, so make excuses to justify it…...

as do too many DUers.

[redqueen]

8. Yeah, that would be the most obvious explanation.

But as you know, most whose actions and words demonstrate such desires bend over backwards to hide the fact.

This seems kinda in-your-face, you know? They disguise anti-choice stuff as being for women's benefit using a bunch of bullshit.

But how could this possibly be disguised as being for women's benefit?

[rdharma]

6. Here's why!

?w=1028&h=890

[arely staircase]

36. that is perfect. nt

[rdharma]

37. It's sad.... but it's SO true! nt

[Cleita]

7. For the reason that they don't believe in a lot of things, like

Obamacare is really a conservative idea, that global climate change is real and that the world is round. They are intellectually dishonest and frankly stupid.

[redqueen]

9. Well their voters reflexively hate socialism, so that explains how they get votes by fighting

the ACA.

People's greed and selfishness is catered to with their anti-climate change propaganda.

I just can't figure out which segment of voters is being appealed to with these lies.

[Cleita]

11. Media brainwashing. I have friends and family constantly repeating media

disinformation and lies to me because our MSM is nothing but propaganda. But for busy people who rely on the radio during their daily commute for news and whatever cable channel is tuned in at the gym and other places they catch up on news with, all they are getting is RW propaganda. Not that many are like us who will look for and pay for alternate sources like news websites,MSNBC or Al Jazeera or get up at five in the morning to catch Amy goodman Steve Kornacki on the weekend.

In my day, I could catch news on the radio while driving to and from work and it was real news. When I got home I flipped on CBS which was free then over the rabbit ears and Dan Rather filled me in on the rest while I made dinner. During the day I read the LA times a credible paper with journalistic integrity during my breaks. I didn't have to jump through hoops just to try to be informed. If my left leaning acquaintances can't be informed, imagine when people who are racist, homophobic and sexist are told what they want to hear from so called journalists and pundits what the results are.

[hfojvt]

18. What lies?

Again, in my 52 years, I have not heard a lot of conservatives spend very much time denying a wage gap.

It's not something you hear a lot on the M$M.

The first place I ever heard about the wage gap, to my knowledge, was in B.C. comics - written by the very conservative Johhny Hart. That is, he did a comic strip claiming that there IS a wage gap.

I think there is far more media claiming that there IS a wage gap than there is claiming there is NOT.

[redqueen]

23. Did you click the media matters link?

I'm not going to cut and paste it for you. If you don't care enough to look at what you claim to know before expounding on it that's on you.

[arely staircase]

38. media hegemony causes a large segment of the lower classes to adopt the values of the ruling class

some of it is or course prejudice against gays, brown people, etc. but the anti-socialist business just comes from adopting what they hear repeated day in and day out.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. Thanks for the link.

According to the link you provided, between 1983 and 2003, different choices explain a 23% wage gap. (see page 29)

I'm not working very hard to slice and dice numbers. Just reading the links you provided.

According to the other link you provided, as much as 6% can't be explained by those factors. (This time it's on page 1)

A 22% gap would require a massive effort to correct. Luckily, that's hyperbolic bullshit. A 6% gap is easier to fix.

[Sgent]

29. Good catch

another article (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1182859) seems to indicate that there is a pay gap of about 9.5% for mid-career academic physicians.

BTW -- the above article is the best one I've ever seen in terms of controlling for outside factors due to how they selected their cohorts and the rigor put into the analysis, combined with the relatively flat trajectory's of physician specialists careers'.

[RC]

12. Equal pay for equal work is something I can get behind.

Also living wages for jobs, especially for jobs that used to pay a living wage, but do not now.
And full time jobs, instead of part time jobs, to avoid paying any benefits.

[Cleita]

14. I think all jobs have value and should pay enough to keep a person, fed

housed and happy. The garbage man's eight hours of work a day is no less valuable than the CEOs.

[etherealtruth]

31. Exactly ... if we all had PhDs in physics

... we would still need our trash picked up, our cars repaired ... our snow plowed.

Honest work is honest work

[Zorra]

15. Because, uh, sexism. nt

[salin]

17. Decades of propaganda - that higher wages mean fewer jobs

mixed with increasing degrees of economic insecurity and looking for explanations that don't disprove life-long beliefs in the goodness of "the American way" (hard work = economic improvement of self and family).

For decades (through the propaganda) there have been moving targets per scapegoating - offered up to folks who spend most of their time living/surviving - not paying close attention to news and events. Thus the scapegoat excuse of the day/era gets internalized because the fear rooted in the economic insecurity hasn't gone away.

I believe that the natural inclination to hold ones' beliefs (ala the American Dream) as solid - rather than have yet another major domain of one's belief system thrown into uncertainty - is placated by the scapegoat excuse of the day. Thus accepted, and thus perpetuated rather than critically viewed and bravely discarded - with a willingness to question ones' life-long beliefs and sense of security in those beliefs.

YMMV.

Peace, salin

[JustAnotherGen]

30. This is it

And in those decades the standard of living has decreased drmatically.

[TheKentuckian]

19. Probably as to avoid becoming a commercial against their own bullshit policies.

They can't just admit what they are doing, even faux and hate radio blasting on 50,000 watt blowtorches is going to sell that shit to enough folks to win anything almost anywhere.

No matter how disconnected with reality they must maintain the pretense that the desired end is broad prosperity, meritocracy, opportunity for all that wish to avail themselves of them, and individual freedom.

[flvegan]

20. Because the majority of them are idiots. n/t

[redqueen]

25. This particular type of idiocy is attractive to a certain type of voter.

Is it just pure sexism? That's what I'm wondering, really.

None of the other reasons explain it as well.

[on point]

21. They would have to admit their economics model and ideology is wrong.

Their entire worldview is wrong, but to admit that would mean their heads might explode.

Better to live in a fantasy

[pampango]

22. Admitting it would create pressure for liberal legislation. n/ t

[redqueen]

24. That makes perfect sense.

I suspect, though, that the hook for voters is the plain old, regular, old-fashioned, in-your-face sexism.

[SummerSnow]

26. Rethuglies deny everything.

Its their motto

[Orsino]

27. First stage of grief and of legislation.

Until they admit the existence of a thing, then admit that it is a problem, then that a solution exists that isn't even worse, they don't have to do anything.

[arely staircase]

35. I don't think they so much deny as deny its importance.

I take their position as a not so thinly veiled, "well you losers should just get better jobs."

[redqueen]

39. Yep, I agree..

which only reaffirms that it's red meat for sexist voters.

[davidn3600]

41. They don't really deny it...they just don't care

A lot of conservatives don't even really see a problem with the gap. Equal pay and an expectation for a woman to work is a threat to their traditional family model.

[bettyellen]

43. they do deny it, as do some here. denials and rationalizations in every thread.