Woo advocate and fake doctor kills patients, finally is busted.

[Archae]

I hope no one here supports this murdering quack.

Dubious nutritionist arrested

Robert O. Young and an associate have been charged with conspiring to practice medicine without a license and multiple counts of grand theft. The San Diego District Attorney's press release stated that Young accepted patients, including some who were terminally ill , and temporarily housed them at his avocado ranch in Valley Center, California. The charges allege that the pair broke the law when they went beyond advocating dietary changes and administered intravenous treatments to patients, some of whom were terminally ill. KFMB San Diego has reported that the criminal complaint involves a dozen alleged victims, six of whom died. [Allyn R. Controversial alternative health provider charged. KFMB-TV, Jan 25, 2014] At his arraignment, Young pleaded not guilty and the judge set bail at $100,000 and ordered Young to stop treating patients at his ranch. Young, who represents himself as "Dr. Young," has a" Ph.D. from Clayton College of Natural Health, a nonaccredited correspondence school that closed in 2010 after Alabama began requiring accreditation for license renewal. The central premise of Young's approach—which lacks scientific support—is that health depends primarily on proper balance between an alkaline and acid cellular environment that can be optimized by dietary modification and taking supplements. (The degree of acidity or alkalinity of body fluids is expressed as "pH.&quot His best-selling book, The pH Miracle: Balance Your Diet, Reclaim Your Health, advises readers to check their pH, "cleanse" for several days, eat a vegetarian diet that emphasizes vegetables, and take various dietary supplements. The food recommendations are based on their supposed effect on body acidity and alkalinity and whether or not they contain "toxins. Like D'Adamo, he also sells a large line of supplements from his Web site. The San Diego Tribune has reported that before moving to California, Young had two brushes with the law in Utah.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/24544235/accused-fake-doctor-pleads-not-guilty-to-felony-charges

[SidDithers]

1. DU rec...

and a link to your thread about Robert O Young from earlier this month. Interesting to see who was defending him there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024279607

Sid

[CSStrowbridge]

18. This should be brought up...

This should be brought up every time anyone defends one of these fraudsters and murderers.

As I said before, the Progressive movement must be a fact-based movement. We can't let any perpetrators of fraud set up home in the Progressive movement.

[Archae]

34. Agree 100%.

We (I hope) 100% reject the birther claims.

Yet claims just as lacking in real evidence are still advocated for.

Every time I write about Oliver Stone being a hack, his cheerleaders jump all over me.

[frazzled]

2. But he had a Ph.D. from Clayton College of Natural Health

a non-accredited correspondence school. The Ph.D. is probably what gave him the "pH" idea (the "D" being for "diet," presumably).

[Half-Century Man]

9. Piled higher and Deeper

That educational tidbit I got from Robert Heinlien's "The Number of The Beast".

[whatchamacallit]

3. I'm curious, how did he kill them?

[Archae]

5. I know of one person who didn't use approved medicine...

Went to this fake "doctor" instead, and died of a treatable cancer.

[whatchamacallit]

7. His choice right?

[Archae]

10. Yeah, her choice...

To be cheated, giving money to a fake "doctor" and losing her life.

[liberal_at_heart]

11. I don't always agree with my father's beliefs but I do believe he has the freedom to

choose alternative medicine over traditional medicine. I wish my father would go to a traditional doctor more often. Ever since my mother died of cancer he has a severe mistrust of traditional doctors. He is also very poor and can't afford traditional medicine. Although I would like him to see a traditional doctor more often, he does have the freedom to choose the way he deals with his health.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. If it was "medicine" it wouldn't be "alternative".

[Scootaloo]

17. let me see if I can explain this...

You have some sort of medical condition. You go to a guy who says he can help you. he's got a PhD on the wall, the place sounds official, and well, you're a little desperate. This "docor" gives yo advice that doesn't actually help - in fact that advice actually ends up killing you.

Your fault? Nope, except inasmuch as you were desperate and maybe not the pinnacle of human wisdom - but how many people ARE? Gullibility should not be a death sentence.

No, the blame lies with the person in whose authority the deceased placed their health. By misrepresenting himself, falsifying credentials and giving malicious "medical advice," he caused the death of people who had placed their trust in him to do the exact opposite.

[whatchamacallit]

20. Not defending this quack

If he misrepresented himself, made fraudulent claims, and acted with negligence or malice, he deserves what he gets. But IMO if people decide they'd rather take their chances with an alternative or experimental treatment than get cut, nuked, and poisoned - and maybe still die - that's still their choice.

[Scootaloo]

22. However the people passing it off as medicine should still be held accountable

Yes, there is some expectation of sense from the patient / customer, but there should be a greater expectation that the service provider is on the up-and-up and capable of actually delivering what they say they deliver - in this case medical treatment for health issues.

Yes, I should shop around to find a good mechanic for my car. But I should be able to expect that a mechanic shop I go to that says it can fix my car can and will actually do so, right? That if you have the business, you can deliver hte goods promised by that business. or, at the very least, to be told up front if the service I seek can't be found there.

[MineralMan]

37. A person can choose anything. That's a right.

However, a quack who convinces someone to choose a worthless treatment plan is liable for encouraging that choice. This particular quack is about to be tried for criminal acts.

A lot of people with a terminal disease choose not to be treated with chemotherapy, radiation, or other medical treatments. They do so, after being advised by a physician and making their own decision. The quack who has been charged here with a crime went further. He claimed that a worthless treatment would help the person recover. It would not. It could not, because it is not based on fact. The treatment was a scam, designed to line this "practitioner's" pockets and not to treat or cure the person's disease.

So, who is at fault? Not the person who made the choice. The fault lies with the fraudulent quack, who encouraged the patient to take a treatment which could not help.

In the case of the medical doctor who proposes chemotherapy or radiation to a cancer patient, he can present information about probably prognoses, based on the use of such therapies with the type of cancer that the patient has. He can also, and will, tell the patient what the treatment will be and what side effects it will cause, along with the probability of success and remission or cure. That's science-based medicine. With that information in hand, the patient can make an informed decision. Some will choose to have the treatment. Some percentage of those will have their life extended, have a remission, or even be cured of the disease. The person who chooses not to be treated will probably die of the disease in due time. But, that's an informed choice.

In the case of the quack, the patient makes a misinformed choice. That is criminal.

[Stargazer09]

52. Thank you

That was a very well-written response.

[Marr]

42. Isn't that the right-wing response to big business abuses?

'If people don't like their children eating lead paint, they'll eventually stop buying those toys'.

That's not choice-- it's predation.

[MattBaggins]

43. A lesson woosters need to learn

Fraud will not be tolerated

[Mariana]

8. I'd like to know that, too.

The article doesn't mention any murder or manslaughter charges, or anything like that. If the people who died under his care were the same ones who had terminal illnesses, then of course he didn't kill them.

Of course, if he was defrauding people, he does belong in prison.

[Renew Deal]

4. What is "woo" and how does it apply to this thread?

[Archae]

6. Woo is quackery.

I describe it face to face to people twirling my finger at my head and saying "Woo..."

[KT2000]

13. is it possible

for you to have these discussions without using the word woo?

The word usage is very subjective.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Not in reference to this subject matter, no.

If ANY of that shit could be PROVEN to work, it would actually just be called 'medicine'.

[KT2000]

29. the point is to discuss

not name-call.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. I always love how the exhortations to 'honesty' or 'civil discussion' target one side.

If I make a claim about a medical 'thing', I expect to be called upon to demonstrate or otherwise prove the mechanism by which the claim is predicated upon.

When Person A holds forth claim B without proof, and expects others to accept it first, before proving it, they may be fairly dismissed.

[snooper2]

49. I know, because "natural medicine" sounds much more edgy and deep than what it really is

what it really is being,

[KT2000]

50. therapies have names

woo is a word used by people expressing opinions, not facts.
Conservatives regard climate change as woo- therefore they don't have to know or discuss the facts.
Some on this board are engaging in the same type of behavior.

[snooper2]

51. your linkage between comparing people here using WOOO to being just like

teabaggers is pretty weak...


Good attempt, it's been tried before but it's kind of fail FYI

[jeff47]

19. Pseudoscience

From Wikipedia:

A synonym used by skeptics to designate pseudoscience, magical thinking, or quackery, the coining of the term often being attributed to James Randi.

[ErikJ]

12. Woo is only good for Prevention, NOT curing.

[Archae]

14. It's only good for the quack's wallet.

[ErikJ]

16. Vegetarian diet and pH levels can be helpful in preventing. But ridiculous for curing.

[longship]

21. Citation please.

The claim re: vegetarian diet and ph sounds like woo-woo to me.

Apparently the dead people who followed his quackery thought so, too. In spite of his ph miracle claims.

So it always is with quacks.

Throw the book at him and then throw away the key.

[SoapBox]

24. I can't help but think of those that stopped or did not take meds

for their HIV/AIDS. Those that were convinced that the same kind of stuff this creep was pushing, would save them and instead they ended up dead.

It's sad that people are so gullible.

[longship]

25. Typical, and yes, sad.

This guy should be locked away for life.

[freshwest]

15. So he hired doctors and nurses to give WHAT intranvenously? And it KILLED them? n/t

[SoapBox]

23. The guy is skeezy.

And it's shocking looking at the comments supporting this not-a-medical-doctor.

[Vashta Nerada]

28. Throw the book at him.

He deserves to rot in prison.

How many people are going to defend him now?

[SunSeeker]

30. A creep who got rich exploiting ill, desperate people, while doing nothing for them.

Kind of like our health insurance companies.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. The "Homeopathic Medical Community"

Sort of like the Board of "Creation Scientists".

[Archae]

33. This is really a dangerous woo advocate...

Since his advocacy effects official government policies.

Leonard Horowitz

"Scientists ignore him; if they debate him, it will build him up as an evangelical huckster. The only people who love him are talk show hosts and the good people who are so paranoid that they will believe anything that supports their deranged thought processes." --an admirer

Leonard Horowitz is a former dentist, anti-vaxxer, promoter of various "natural cures," and self-publisher of books and pamphlets expressing such unfounded beliefs as that the AIDS and Ebola epidemics were intentionally caused by the U.S. government. These and other claims made by Horowitz have influenced some black leaders into boycotting vaccination programs.*

Horowitz recently told Al-Jazeera that H1N1 vaccines would cause sterility, as part of a plan of "pangenocide" against Muslims. In a press release describing his belief that the H1N1 vaccine would cause sterility, Horowitz added this "note to journalists":

Dr. Horowitz is advancing Healthy World Organization (HWO), a natural alternative to the UN's World Health Organization. Information about HWO is available at: HealthyWorldOrganization.org. For more information about the dangers of flu vaccinations, see Dr. Horowitz's comprehensive website FLUscam.com. Dr. Horowitz endorses natural alternatives to vaccines including covalently-bonded silver hydrosols, alkalizing water, and vitamins C and D. See FLU "TO Dos" and OxySilver.com.

His company mission statement for OxySilver might nauseate the unspiritual or the clearheaded:

"To celebrate the manifestation of Divinity in biology, health science, and emerging biospiritual technologies, and through our loving service, deliver the most advanced knowledge and equipment for personal and planetary purification, physical salvation, and spiritual evolution."

In addition to his HWO, FLUscam, and Oxysilver websites, Horowitz also promotes his fantasies on at least two other sites: tetrahedron.org and drlenhorowitz.com. He describes himself as "Humanitarian, Clinician, Prophet, Scholar and Natural Healer." Some might add Charlatan to this list, but that would be too kind. Horowitz promotes himself as "Dr." Horowitz on his websites and in his many health-related books. He has no formal medical training, but it has been reported that he has a master's degree in public health from Harvard University.*

http://www.skepdic.com/horowitz.html

[haele]

35. California certifies Naturalpath MDs all the time. They have to have gone to a real medical school.

Which means a doctor practicing Naturalpathy (or Acupuncture, or and of the other alternative medical therapies) needs to have to actually know, anatomy, biology (and botany/pharmacology) and have actually studied the difference between correlation and causation when dealing with medical issues, therapies, and cures.

Medical practice needs to be scientific - patients are trusting you with their wellbeing and lives, and your objective is to provide an actual result which has objective physical evidence. Following the scientific method does not mean searching Web MD or gathering a bunch of old science and medical books and finding like passages to justify whatever associative/commutative theory of medicine you are currently pushing. When you're acting as a MD, or providing medicine, you have to know what you are doing and how to recognize if your product is causing adverse reactions in a patient, and you need to be able to diagnose accurately when presented with a situation of "cause and effect". And one is supposed to avoid "doing harm" in the process - even if they can't fix the problem, a medical practitioner is supposed to attempt to make things better, not worse.

Mr. Young is a con-man, or if he actually believes his majikal theories of medicine and how the body works, he's a delusional fool. Forsooth - Know'st thou that tis Bodily Humores out of alignment that causes human dis-ease?
That's why practicing without a license is so damaging to a community and should get a butt-load of prison time when people are hurt.

Haele

[SidDithers]

38. If you're thinking of a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (N.D), there's no MD requirement...

some naturopaths do also go to medical school, but it's not a requirement to become an N.D. One can earn an N.D. with nothing more than a 3 or 4 year bachelor degree as a prerequisite.

I have no idea what a Naturalpath MD is.

Sid

[haele]

39. Sorry, I meant regular Md's that include Naturopathic medicine. I've met a few licenced.

While their Naturopathic medical practice usually consists of preventative rather than curative (primarily diet and excessive) sort of medicine, the few licensed Md's who are also Naturopaths I've met also incorporate regular "go to a lab for blood-work, see the specialist and/or get the prescription made by Bayer or Lilly at Walgreen's" medicine when there is evidence that something is going wrong that diet and exercise can't fix. They're legit enough to work at Kaiser and a few of the other local hospitals, and they're in a couple regular (Aetna, Blue Cross, United, Tricare and Medicare) networks - because while there's that "touch of woo", there's also a lot of science and tests in their practice.

I've also met an ND who works in sports medicine practice a dietitian, a couple therapists and a couple specialist Md's.

That's really quite different than Homeopathic and Crystal Chakkra practitioners who are pretty much closer to storefront hypnotherapists than they are to someone who spent eight years studying medicine and two to four years as an intern.

Haele

[MattBaggins]

46. MD's who practice naturopathy

are the one's who barely scraped by.

[MineralMan]

36. Thanks for posting this. Quackery Kills!

What is sad that he was able to continue "practicing" his quackery without being shut down.

[Sheepshank]

40. Last name Young and he hails from Utah.......?

Old Bringham Young would be so comfortable in the land of the well connected rip off artists....also the documented Mecca for Pyramid schemes.

[Jefferson23]

41. Are You With Me, Doctor Wu?

Are you with me Doctor Wu
Are you really just a shadow
Of the man that I once knew
Are you crazy are you high
Or just an ordinary guy
Have you done all you can do
Are you with me Doctor................

snip*the pair broke the law when they went beyond advocating dietary changes and administered intravenous treatments to patients, some of whom were terminally ill.

Arrested, good!

K&R

[etherealtruth]

44. These charlatans need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law

Preying on the desperate and dispirited in and of itself is despicable ... carrying it to the point folk die is CRIMINAL

Edit: I simply can no longer spell ...Charlatons----> CHARLATANS

[Rex]

45. 'Controversial alternative health provider charged' - something wrong with the article title?

Funny how you complain about disingenuous people, and then go about doing the exact same thing with your title. I guess pushing FUD is okay, but woo is not.

Why do a handful of people on this board do just that? Makes it hard to believe anything they post imo.

[Archae]

47. Whatever "FUD" is...

The news article calls him "controversial."

I call him a fake.

And he is a fake.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

55. At least Archae hasn't killed anyone.

[SidDithers]

48. Kick...

'Cause this thread needs a pic of the cancer quack in prison garb.



Sid

[randr]

53. Meanwhile back at the rancho AMA

Not a single person was harmed or killed by conventional medical treatments.

[tridim]

54. First visit, thirty-eight bucks.

Sometimes I think these idiots are paid by big pharma to spread FUD about real alternative medicines. I don't know anyone who would trust that quack, he's like a strawman.

[Archae]

56. Oh right, he's "part of the conspiracy..."

No.
Young is a con man pretending to be a doctor.
For the most basic of reasons, to make money.

There's no "Big Pharma Conspiracy."

"Alternative" medicine is a scam. Always was, always will be.

And what the heck is "FUD?"

[tridim]

57. Got it, I'll put you in the close-minded-and-ignorant category.

Thanks for playing, and enjoy your corporate meds!