Fox News: Obama used wounded soldier as a prop & human shield

[geek tragedy]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/the-five-obama-used-wounded-soldier-as-human-shield-against-criticism/

Gutfeld took things much further saying, “This heroic man was somewhat disconnected from the limp litany of grad school garbage that came before, and it felt like it was placed at the end of the speech to armor against scrutiny.” He added, “Everyone walks away thinking about this amazing hero and not how lame the president’s speech was.”

“It was really moving at the end, but I felt like I was being used,” Gutfeld said.

Summing up Gutfeld’s point, Andrea Tantaros said, “It sounds like you feel like Cory was being used as a human shield from criticism.”

The Five seems to be echoing criticisms heard elsewhere on the Internet.

[hrmjustin]

1. Gutfeld is a loathsome individual.

He can not possibly know shat a hero like this man is thinking.

[geek tragedy]

2. I wish he was a uniquely loathsome, irrational person nt

[hrmjustin]

4. I wish that it was only him as well but.... n/t.

[brush]

30. Yeah, right? Because we had a couple of those uniquely loathsome threads . . .

right here on DU a couple nights ago.

Wonder if that's where he got it?

[Cha]

196. "uniquely loathsome".. Not a bad description

of said threads. Particularly Propagandized. Singularly Similar to the foxhole on Bullshit Mountain.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Faux Newz has been reading DU

Fuck.

[geek tragedy]

6. No, The Five was much more respectful of President Obama

than the Greatest List is.

[DURHAM D]

10. So true.

[BlueCaliDem]

143. Unfortunately, so true. eom

[Electric Monk]

8. Might as well include links to the threads that you're referring to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4405271
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4414439

[geek tragedy]

9. everyone's already seen the leftwing version of this talking point

I guess those folks need to tone down their hatred of Obama if they're gonna match Fox News's dedication to fairness and balance

I mean, no one on the Five thought to say that President Obama "made me sick to my soul."

[PowerToThePeople]

33. Of course no one from fox was sickened to their soul

Because what was done at the SOTU is exactly what any Republican would do. The only reason they attack, is for their dislike of Obama.

[geek tragedy]

39. No, actually that's not what any Republican would have done.

And, the emotional, personal dislike for Obama was much more evident in the DU commentary than it was on the Fox News segment.

[PowerToThePeople]

56. I voted twice for him

Canvassed for him. Donated many times (and still do) for him.

People are not infallible. I understand that he is trying to keep it (the country) together. I understand that much of what this country stands for is complete shit, and that there is so much momentum built up down the road to hell, that is very hard to do the right thing any more. This is especially true in a Public representative. But, because we have so much shitty momentum built up, it is ever more important for the people that have the power to do the right thing, to slow down all that is extremely fucked up with us, to do it. Not to go up in front of the world and say, "sometimes we make mistakes."

[geek tragedy]

60. did you watch the part where he vigorously denounced efforts

to undermine his diplomacy with Iran, and said we need to get rid of our "permanent war footing?"

Trust me, if one is going to use a prop to promote the glories of war, one doesn't use a guy who got catastrophically wounded on his 10th deployment.

[sheshe2]

126. Makes you wonder just how many of the commenters

actually watched SOTU, geek tragedy.

I watched it twice.

Thanks for your OP!

[OilemFirchen]

73. You donate to a man who sickens your soul?

Holy shit, that's twisted.

[ProSense]

77. LOL!

[Union Scribe]

82. Welcome back to DU!

Amazing all these reawakened posters rousing at the same time to hop into a huge GD brawl, and all on the same side. Surely all a coincidence!

[geek tragedy]

92. Having half the site talking about Obama in the same manner as does

Sarah Palin will have that effect.

Well, Palin's a little less emotional than some folks . . .

[AgingAmerican]

98. So Sarah Palin, in your view

is better than half of the folks on DU?

[geek tragedy]

101. No, her ideas are heinous, she's just less generally hateful

of the President.

She's never called him despicable or claimed he "made me sick to my soul."

But, she has offered President Obama free lessons on leadership on blog posts.

[AgingAmerican]

137. So, she hates Obama

Less than half the DU?

Riiiiiiiighhhhht! And ice is warm.

[geek tragedy]

161. She never claimed that Obama made her sick to her soul.

Quite honestly, she probably has no strong feelings on the President whatsoever. Her entire persona is a schtick.

[AgingAmerican]

188. She has said many, many things MUCH worse that that

And she means all of it.

But in your eyes, Sarah Palin is just an innocent sparkly eyed girl who could never say such things and actually mean them, unlike those horrible Democrats who voted for Obama twice in addition to pounding on doors for , and donating money to, Obama? Because they dare criticize him? Really, you actually believe this?

[geek tragedy]

189. Palin is the least respectable public figure in the USA. nt

[AgingAmerican]

190. Yet in your mind

She is better than half of DU?

[geek tragedy]

191. Not better, just less emotionally invested in hating the President. nt

[AgingAmerican]

192. Riiiiiight

Suuuuuure she is....

[geek tragedy]

193. Her rhetoric is less hateful.

[AgingAmerican]

194. The only hate floating around here

...isn't coming from those who criticize Obama.

[OilemFirchen]

93. I beg your pardon?

I've been here a dozen years and contributed consistently. Who the fuck are you?

[arely staircase]

153. and on the same but slightly modified to appeal to the left talking points as Fox News. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

132. The man does not

sicken my soul. There are some actions which he has played a part in, either by his own choice or following the advice of his advisors, that have sickened my soul.

Still, There are things he has done which I do approve of. I was not able to say that about the last President or the puke who ran against him in 2012.

[grasswire]

152. you are defending Republicans now?

And FOX too?

Sick.

[AgingAmerican]

42. I haven't seen it

Could you post it please?

[Cali_Democrat]

100. Here's one DU post that refers to "props"...written after Obama's SOTU on Tuesday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024411497

[AgingAmerican]

138. There is no hate in that OP

You are being over-dramatic.

[morningfog]

168. They see any and all criticism as "hate."

It is easier to dismiss that way.

[PowerToThePeople]

200. Truth. n/t

[Hekate]

179. Well, there's the grandaddy of them all, so to speak

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024405271

[Cha]

174. the profiteering

"leftwing version".

"sick to my soul" .. leave that to the drama junkies. fox needs a lesson or two from the Click-meister.

[arely staircase]

142. yeah, "fuck" nt

[Mojorabbit]

204. If so I hope they keep reading

There is a lot of good info here.

[Cali_Democrat]

205. They're just going pick up on the anti-Obama posts....

...and blast them across their airwaves

You think Faux Newz will pick up on anything else?

[nyquil_man]

5. Maybe the President should have gone down to the WWII memorial

and delivered a hack speech instead.

[geek tragedy]

7. People like it as long as wounded vets are used as props for the right talking

points.

[tanyev]

11. Hey, Gutfeld, what did you think of this moment? Hmm?

[world wide wally]

12. I'm wondering if MSNBC has apologized for this yet

[geek tragedy]

13. Well, the half of DU that agrees with Fox News about Obama didn't.

Apparently liberals only apologize for hating on Republicans instead of on other liberals and Democrats.

[lpbk2713]

14. But ... but ... I thought they liked presidents who used soldiers as props.

[geek tragedy]

16. they do, when a President actually does so, if that president does

so to promote war.

[PowerToThePeople]

45. Is that the fake turkey? n/t

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bushs-baghdad-bird-a-decoration/

[lpbk2713]

63. Yes

And a fake turkey was a perfect metaphor for Smirky's presidency.

[Aldo Leopold]

139. Sweet! Lols.

[louis-t]

74. I was actually the discoverer of the fake turkey!

I based it on the ease with which the phony bush maneuvered it (min. 20 lbs. plus decorations). Now they say it was a real turkey but not meant for eating.

Takes me back to my newbie days.

[snooper2]

15. far left, far right, everyone thinks they don't touch LOL

paging Derp!

[Octafish]

17. So what? Bush lied America into war with Fox's help.

Blame Rupert Murdoch, along with Cheney and the rest of the BFEE.

[sabrina 1]

18. Here we go again.

Is this the old 'Hitler loved dogs. You love dogs. See the connection?' routine again?

Just a word of advice, that never works when someone is correct about something. It doesn't much matter what anyone else says or thinks and that is FACT not a 'let me see if I can use something terrible to compare this too'.

Btw, what do you think of all these terrible wars? Not sure you've ever taken a stand on the issue one way or the other.

[geek tragedy]

20. hey, if you agree with half of DU that Fox News understated just how evil

Obama and his speech were, more power too you.

For the record, I think we need to get out of Afghanistan, I always opposed Iraq, and I think avoiding war with Iran is the single most important thing we as a country can do right now.

[sabrina 1]

25. Twisting words doesn't work either, just so y0u know. I prefer plain speaking. So let me

be clear. I agree with Will Pitt regarding the use of the troops and always did. Certainly we ALL railed against it when Bush did it. I despise Fox and everyone on it and in fact have not watched that disgusting propaganda outlet for so long I wouldn't recognize any of them.

So here's how I look at them doing a complete turnaround after being the biggest spokespeople for the criminal enterprise of war mongers that lied us into war. I don't give a tinker's curse what they say because they don't exist to me. Why you feel the need to drag their garbage over here is anyone's guess.

I opposed Afghanistan, knew they were going there because they ALWAYS planned to get their access to the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan. I opposed the Iraq invasion and every other violent act perpetrated against anyone by the neocons and their enablers, AND STILL DO.

Fuck Fox Propaganda! Why do YOU give them any credit is my question?

[geek tragedy]

40. I don't give Fox or those who share their general mentality any credit. nt

[sabrina 1]

80. Well that was my point, 'Fox or those who share their general menatality' I don't even

GO there because I know that not a single word I would hear there would mean anything. Why do you go there? Remember how they hated Occupy Wall Street and a few DUers were practically quoting them here on OWS. I believe I tried to advise them back then to change their sources.

That's the thing about them and Fox and their ilk, you don't HAVE to go there, someone or other always brings their talking points to us and they are so easy to recognize.

My advice to you would be to change your sources, but that's up to you.

[geek tragedy]

86. I wasn't the one who read off the same page of talking points as Fox News. nt

[sabrina 1]

106. Who 'read off the same page of talking points as Fox News'?

[geek tragedy]

108. the people who agreed with Fox that Obama was cynically exploiting

the wounded vet for propaganda purposes.

[sabrina 1]

110. Please name these people 'who agreed with Fox' or you are lying, as far as I am concerned.

[geek tragedy]

113. do you disagree that Obama was cynically exploiting that soldier and using

him as a prop?

[sabrina 1]

121. You have made a vile accusation against DUers.

You stated that DUers are collaborating with Fox by REPEATING their talking points. Now either back it up or apoligize.

Who are these DUers who deliberately went to Fox saw their talking points and then repeated them here. And don't even try to deflect from that question. DU is sick to death of this kind of deception. Either provide your proof or do not respond to me. I don't deal in deception.

[geek tragedy]

128. You didn't answer the question. nt

[sabrina 1]

184. Mission Accomplished. You lied about DUers and you did it deliberately.

Thanks for admitting it at least.

Now I can finally leave this garbage thread, thankfully.

[geek tragedy]

185. Yes, you're afraid to answer the question

so away you go.

[proudretiredvet]

133. prop to reality gap

He can stand this hero in front of the millions who watched but his allowing the benefits of retired vets to be lowered is the telling fact here. We need to get by the noise and look at what has been done.

[LordGlenconner]

27. "That never works when someone is correct about something"

The fact that he was either correct, or incorrect, seems more like opinion to me.

In other words, just because you say Obama was wrong to recognize Sgt. Remsburg doesn't mean it was wrong.

Or to put it another way:

[sabrina 1]

37. Well, put it this way. Every time I saw soldiers brought to the SOTU since the beginning

of the criminal invasions we got lied into I opposed it vehemently and so did EVERY DEMOCRAT I ever knew.

Here's how I would like to see soldiers at the SOTU. I would like to see a contingency of those brave souls who came back after realizing how they were lied to and formed organizations such as 'The Iraq Veterans Against the War' be given a place to tell the people why we need to end all these invasions NOW. You know, some TRUTH rather than appeal to the emotions of the people who are torn about these wars, wanting to support the troops, but hating the wars, by calliing their service fighting for our 'freedoms'. Nothing could be further from the truth. They were NOT fighting for our freedoms. They were fighting for corporations and MANY OF THE KNOW THIS. So let's hear from the men and women who put their lives on the line for a lie.

Because that way this country might not be so willing to do it again.

I will always oppose the glorification of war.

[LordGlenconner]

61. But doesn't Sgt. Remsburg's face reveal some of that truth?

He's pretty messed up no thanks to 10 deployments. Seems to me that his mere appearance is rather profound when it comes to assessing the human cost of war.

Not speaking to you directly, but I see the objection to Obama recognizing him as almost exclusively based on politics. In other words, if you like Obama you don't have a problem with what he did. If you don't like Obama, well of course you had a problem with what he did.

And yes, I know that's simply my opinion.

Anyway, I appreciate your response. It was clear and concise and most importantly it made me think.

Take care.

[sabrina 1]

83. Unless that point was made clearly, NO. What it does is make the public feel they HAVE to

support the wars because 'look at the sacrifices others are making for OUR FREEDOMS'. Which is what the president said, that 'America's freedoms don't come easy' absolutely combining the wounded soldier with 'fighting for our freedoms'.

The Iraq War wasn't about our freedoms, yet that was the impression most people came away with. That soldier was wounded fighting for our freedoms. It's despicable frankly.

[geek tragedy]

94. so you agree with Fox News that Obama was exploiting the soldier to score

propaganda points then.

[sabrina 1]

109. I would quit while I was this far behind, if I were you. But I'm not you and have never called

out a DUer on this forum, ESPECIALLY using Fox to do so, accused them of 'reading off a Fox script' in an OP. Shameful, really. And perhaps, I'll have to check, against the rules here.

Why didn't you just write Will Pitt is working for Fox in the OP?? Too scared? Or maybe because it's not true and lying about other DUers is likely to get your OP hidden? At least if you're going to do it, have the guts to be forthright about it. I have zero respect for people who are too scared to say what they think but try to say it in a sneaky way.

Just put Will Pitt's name in your OP and I would probably at least respect you for having the courage to say OUTRIGHT what you are implying in a disgustingly cowardly way.

[geek tragedy]

111. I posted a statement of Fox making some excrable comments about the President.

It is not my fault that people had made similar comments here.

[Whisp]

115. gawd, sabrina, you are not a stupid person

give it up.

I am embarrassed for you.

[sabrina 1]

119. Thank you, I am not a stupid person which is why I know when someone is calling out a

DUer but is hoping to do it in a sneaky way. You are not a stupid person either so I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I am embarrassed for the OP frankly.

[stevenleser]

97. Nope. What I objected to was use of soldiers to deflect criticism from an illegal war of aggression

There was none of that with Obama's SOTU speech

[sabrina 1]

114. Was the Iraq War part of the struggle for America's freedom?

[stevenleser]

127. Nope, but he hid himself and his illegal war behind the soldiers. nt

[Whisp]

95. Is that the Big Derpowski?

Nah, Jeff Bridges was actually a cool character in that movie. He would never go off on a shitstorm of hate like The Big Derpowski did.

[SidDithers]

130. The Big Derpowski is a fucking awesone nickname...

Sid

[dionysus]

159. oh shit!!!

[geek tragedy]

163. You gotta trademark that. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

171. The streak continues....

Told ya..........you're on a roll.

[arely staircase]

154. fox news talking point is

Obama used a soldier as a prop.

Is Fox Newx right?

I say fuck fox news talking points.

[sabrina 1]

182. Why are you watching Fox? Most Democrats here have been boycotting that propaganda

machine for years. Is that where you go to look for talking points? Shame on you for supporting that lying Right Wing excuse for a 'news' organiztion. Giving them ratings are you? Shameful, really, I thought people here knew better.

[arely staircase]

183. I read about it on DU.

Don't watch Fox News, Russia today or other such shameful propaganda.

[Egnever]

19. DERP

[spanone]

21. fuck fox...the anti-democratic made up news network

[msanthrope]

22. FUCK!!! Somebody at Fox must read DU. nt

[AgingAmerican]

23. Gutfeld?

The snot nosed 50 year old Republican frat boy?

[geek tragedy]

26. there have been a lot worse, more hysterical reactions to the SOTU speech.

Sad to say.

[AgingAmerican]

31. Yeah?

Worse than 'The Five'?

[Union Scribe]

24. .

"Take THAT people on DU I don't agree with! You're just like Fox News der!"

By the way, the part you quoted doesn't sound anything like Pitt's criticism that drew all those recs, mine included. I get you're pissed off but this sort of tactic is stupid and beneath you.

[sabrina 1]

29. Very transparent isn't it? If I wanted to make a point against someone else's view, the LAST place

I would go for inspiration would be Faux, the propaganda machine that every decent American boycotted long ago rather than give them even one view.

[geek tragedy]

35. Well, given that a bunch of y'all agree with Fox News on this point . . . nt

[sabrina 1]

58. Given that this is the best you can do to try to make some point, use Fox as

a backup? Seems you don't have much of an argument to make. I'd say you'd be better off making your own argument against whatever you don't agree with. But it was your choice to give views to Fox, not that many here probably clicked a foul Fox link. To each their own. Otoh, if Faux has finally seen the light, that would be great because they used to be the biggest cheerleaders for USING the troops. However, I doubt it ...

Did you agree with them when they cheered using the troops at the SOTU? I remember how outraged people used to be here about that. Glad to see most haven't changed.

[OilemFirchen]

91. There is no link to Fox anywhere in the OP.

You DID read the OP, yes?

[Union Scribe]

43. Yes. The thing that gets me

is that they always bring over this crazy RW shit to try to smear us with, and it's like, why are they reading and watching all this RW stuff? I'd never know about most of these supposed RWers who agree with us (and they don't of course, they have to thoroughly mischaracterize posters to get that tar to stick) if it weren't for them crawling around conservative media. It makes me wonder why they're so up on everything the right is saying.

[geek tragedy]

51. Mediaite highlights all kinds of stuff--usually to make fun of it.

Sorry that you can't join us in scorning Fox News for that deranged bit of commentary, due to your agreement with it.

[Union Scribe]

53. Tell me, exactly, what parts I agree with.

Come on, mind reader. You want to cram words in my mouth, at least tell me which ones you're using.

[geek tragedy]

65. that Obama was cynically using the soldier to deflect criticism/recognition

of the failures of his own policies.

That was Pitt's entire point in both whinefests, and that was Gutfield's as well.

[Union Scribe]

75. Nope.

That isn't my opinion, and it doesn't seem to be Pitt's either. His reaction was horror at the awfulness of a warlike collection of leaders golf clapping for one of its maimed victims like that's not insanely inappropriate. Note that Pitt talks about the last 13 years, well beyond Obama's term, and about a war-ruined country. Obama was just the delivery mechanism for a terrible "passion play" this nation puts on by "honoring" such heroes with the occasional speech versus our track record of carelessly sacrificing their lives for no good reason.

But tell me more about my beliefs. Please proceed.

[geek tragedy]

84. You are blatantly mischaracterizing what Pitt wrote. He directly accused

the President of exploiting the soldier, in extremely lurid, hateful terms.

For him, it was all about hating on Obama.

Quotes:

He stood that soldier up at the end, the man with the blasted head and the scarred life, with the visible dent in his skull, who will never ever be even remotely close to the same again because of the ten deployments we sent him off to so someone he'll never meet can make a lot of money, and gave that man his reward: a standing ovation from the worst roomful of people on the skin of the Earth...

...followed by this burbled bit of spitup pabulum: "Sometimes we make mistakes."

WOW DUDE. DEEP.

Yeah. That happened. On national television.

That guy deserves better than a star turn in the parliament of whores, he deserves better than "Oops" from his Commander in Chief, and speaking of the boss, that guy deserves better than to be a prop in a passion play about how everything is awesome, and the last 13 years never happened.

I am sure the to-the-knife Obama defenders out there will seethe and howl upon reading this. Whatever, man. That was one of the more despicable displays I have ever had the misfortune to witness. He had the opportunity to do more than use a blasted, shattered soldier as a prop in a ZOMG HOW AWESOME IS AMERICA I MEAN TOTALLY montage, to maybe bring home some truths about actions and consequences...and he went for the easy applause line and the "Awwwww" moment.

You say "Awwwww" at puppies and babies. You don't say "Awwww" at soldiers victimized by ruined policy deployed by a ruined country...and if you have half a conscience, you make note of that on the largest stage with the biggest microphone in the world.

Another missed opportunity in what has become a truly impressive string of missed opportunities. Yeah, the SOTU is a show. That does not mean it has to be utterly meaningless, and it certainly does not mean that it has to be grossly exploitative.
Maybe I'll feel different tomorrow upon review. I doubt it. I am sick to my stomach.

And then the double down (note that the metaphor of sugar and poison is EXACTLY what Fox said)

Cory Remsburg rose up before that parliament of whores, disfigured, maimed for life, and was duly recognized for his service and devotion to country. He received a deafening ovation from a room filled with the worst people in the country, many of whom voted over and over again to send him back to war ten times over, who cheered so loudly to cover over their shame...including the president himself, whose Afghanistan "surge" played its own part in putting Cory Remsburg in the path of the bomb that left him barely able to stand, blind in one eye, and forever damaged.

The President of the United States made no mention of the insanity of any soldier having to endure ten deployments, made no mention of the concept of actions and consequences, even as he stood before the loudest microphone on the planet. Perhaps he and his people thought the face of Cory Remsburg said it for him, and if so, that is another sorry example of the eleventy-dimension chess being played by an administration which is trying to run a country that only knows, politically, how to play checkers.

There are times when real leaders have to say things out loud into microphones, even when those things are so obvious that they bleed on the pavement. What happened to Cory Remsburg was wrong. It was, in fact, a crime, a long act of profiteering that has fed tens of thousands of men and women like him into the meat grinder, to be spat out into a VA system that is utterly overwhelmed and paralyzed before the avalanche of bodies it is tasked to help.

Instead, Mr. Obama said this: "My fellow Americans, men and women like Cory remind us that America has never come easy. Our freedom, our democracy, has never been easy. Sometimes we stumble; we make mistakes; we get frustrated or discouraged. But for more than two hundred years, we have put those things aside and placed our collective shoulder to the wheel of progress..."

We have put those things aside? Cory Remsburg, and the tens of thousands of soldiers who share his damage, cannot put those things aside. Mr. Obama turned that soldier's plight into a pep rally for the country that fed him to the bomb that almost killed him. "Sometimes we stumble; we make mistakes" was the only apology that ravaged Ranger got from his Commander in Chief. He deserved far more than that, as do all the men and women not lucky enough to get applause from Congress on television.

It is easy peasy for politicians to talk about putting difficult issues "aside," out of mind, away. That's the bread and butter of the Teflon not-my-problem political hack. Leaders, real leaders, address those difficult issues head-on. They challenge we the people to take them head-on, as well, and that is how we heal and rise and move on. That did not happen on Tuesday night. Again.

If you ask the right people, they'll tell you it was a great speech.

Ask me, and I'll tell you I saw a man talk like an Occupy protester while promoting the same tired, failed economic principles that spawned our yawning inequality in the first place. I saw a man talk like a Greenpeace activist while promoting or ignoring the dirtiest fuel industries in the business. I saw a man honor a ten-times-deployed wounded veteran with an "Oops." I saw a man talking very eloquently out of both sides of his mouth, again, and it made me sick in my soul. "Between the idea and the reality," said a poet, "falls the Shadow."

It's the sugar that makes the poison taste sweet.

It wasn't about the scenery, it was about how evil and disgusting and dishonest Obama was for recognizing that soldier without giving the speech that Lord Commander Pitt had decreed he should give.

It was more deranged than anything Stockman Cruz & Co. produced.

[OilemFirchen]

105. I don't read Pitt's diatribes...

having had the misfortune of skimming through his book.

Did he actually accuse someone else of hackery?

[geek tragedy]

117. he said that a real leader would have said what Will Pitt wanted said

at the SOTU, and that the failure of the President to say what Will Pitt would have said "made me sick to my soul."

[OilemFirchen]

134. Yeah, well...

I didn't actually need another reason to avoid his missives, but I'll add it to the list.

Thanks.

[Union Scribe]

87. I'll be back later

to hear more about my opinions as revealed by you. Do me a favor though, when you next put words in my mouth, wash them. The last bunch tasted distinctly of sour grapes and bullshit.

[geek tragedy]

99. when you are able to articulate your disagreement with at least parts of what Pitt wrote, go

right ahead.

But, if you're going to endorse the contents, you endorse the contents, regardless of the spin you choose to put on them

[BlueCaliDem]

148. Bingo.

Oh how those usual suspects just dance around having to fess up that they're no different than Fox "News" Channel around here - because it serves their purpose of attacking President Obama, one of the many things they have in common with all of Fox "News" Channel talking heads

[DisgustipatedinCA]

158. Don't bother with these ridiculous people. They're of no value.

People who are politically to the right of me don't get to compare me with Fox News. Those people are ideologically much closer to Fox News than I am, but most are far too f***ing stupid to understand the inherent hypocrisy in their utterances. Still, the point stands, whether they're able to understand it or not.

[Union Scribe]

64. ...guess you're too busy stirring shit

to back any of it up eh?

[geek tragedy]

71. Here's the original whine:

I am sure the to-the-knife Obama defenders out there will seethe and howl upon reading this. Whatever, man. That was one of the more despicable displays I have ever had the misfortune to witness. He had the opportunity to do more than use a blasted, shattered soldier as a prop in a ZOMG HOW AWESOME IS AMERICA I MEAN TOTALLY montage, to maybe bring home some truths about actions and consequences...and he went for the easy applause line and the "Awwwww" moment.

You say "Awwwww" at puppies and babies. You don't say "Awwww" at soldiers victimized by ruined policy deployed by a ruined country...and if you have half a conscience, you make note of that on the largest stage with the biggest microphone in the world.

Another missed opportunity in what has become a truly impressive string of missed opportunities. Yeah, the SOTU is a show. That does not mean it has to be utterly meaningless, and it certainly does not mean that it has to be grossly exploitative.

Maybe I'll feel different tomorrow upon review. I doubt it. I am sick to my stomach.

Hey, if you want to support this kind of glandular ODS, that's on you.

[Union Scribe]

79. Judging by your tactics

in disingenuous debate, together with all of the personal attacks against Pitt himself, I think he was rather prescient about the "to-the-knife Obama defenders."

There may be ODS, but the sufferers don't seem to be the ones you're thinking.

[geek tragedy]

89. Hey, misrepresent what Pitt wrote all you want. he said Obama's speech made him "sick to my soul"

while calling Obama out as an exploitative, cowardly liar.

So, you can disclaim the personal hatred of Obama it contained if you want. But please don't pretend Pitt can, because he's about as credible on Obama right now as Sarah Palin is.

[geek tragedy]

34. No, the Fox News criticism is much more rational and less hateful of the President.

I didn't hear Gutfield whining about how Barack Obama "made me sick to my soul."

[Union Scribe]

44. I could be wrong.

It could totally not be beneath you.

[geek tragedy]

54. hey, being more over the top in Obamahating than Fox News is certainly

something I consider beneath me.

[Cali_Democrat]

36. People compare Obama to Republicans all the time...I doubt you object to that

So when certain DUers act like Republicans, there's nothing wrong with calling it out.

It works both ways.

[morningfog]

170. That is where you are so wrong.

It is embarrassing how Obama's most vocal supporters and advocates on DU always make any criticism of his policies or tactics personal against DUers. It is intellectual laziness and bizarre. Debate the issues, make the case for the positions and policies you support. When you accuse DUers of hate, of being like republicans, or all the other tired bullshit, you just look like you can't move your argument forward on the merits.

Criticism of the President is nothing at all like "calling out a DUer."

[morningfog]

169. What in the world gives you the idea that this is beneath that poster?

This is typical level.

[ProSense]

32. How is it that there are no

"broken clock" comments in this thread?

[geek tragedy]

46. Looking in the mirror and seeing Greg Gutfield must not be very pleasant.

Not so unpleasant that it makes people sick to their souls, but . ..

[Cha]

177. If they're even capable

of making the connection. I only see a budding pretzel factory.

[Cha]

167. ...

Brawawawawaawaaaaaa! You're in top for winner of this thread.. I dunno I haven't read them all yet.

[JI7]

38. there are certain types that view some people as things

some who claim to be on the left seem to think veterans should always be miserable and available for them to point to about how horrible the war was . these vets are not allowed to go on with their life and be happy because they think it would take away from their "anti war" stand. because it's more about how right they were than improving things.

people who can only think in black/white .

wingnuts who refuse to view soldiers beyond the "USA USA" bs. hide the coffins, talk tough about war while ignoring vets who come home and need help. attack them the way they did with Kerry.

in both of these cases they treat this man who i believe is in his 30s as if he is a small child . Obama and Remsburg have met multiple times from around the time Obama first became President. anyone who regularly has watched the SOTU knows certain people are always given recognition.

[Fumesucker]

49. Both sides do it..

I read some variation of that here on DU just about daily.

If you want the M$M to stop saying that lie you have to stop saying it yourself.

Be the change you wish to see.

[JI7]

52. i don't believe some who claim to be on the left really are

[Fumesucker]

59. How peculiar, neither do I

And I suspect our lists of suspects would not coincide all that well.

Graham4Anything, LoZoccolo, OperationMindCrime, You Better Believe It.

All those turned out to be trolls and they don't have much in common.

[JI7]

62. i'm not just talking about DU members, and i never saw any of those as being on the left

[Fumesucker]

68. Two of them were quite popular with the claque

And two of them were quite unpopular with the same group.

Go figure.

[JI7]

72. it was only one who kept getting a bunch of responses and recs for his bs

[Fumesucker]

81. Nope, two of them did

LoZoccolo and You Better Believe It

LZ was amazingly good at being divisive with minimal input. BBI was a bit more obvious with their trolling.

[geek tragedy]

102. BBI wasn't so obvious that more than half the site caught on. nt

[Fumesucker]

103. Oddly enough far fewer caught on to LZ, that poster was only obvious to a few of us

K&R If You Love Obama!

[geek tragedy]

104. honestly, I don't think I even paid attention to LZ.

BBI was much more entertaining.

Now, G4E was a much more accomplished troll than LZ. Some of what they posted was performance art.

"Do you stand with Rand or with Hillary?"

[Fumesucker]

112. No, LZ was a Zen master of trolling, a few carefullly chosen words for maximum effect

Comparing LZ to G4A is like a Hokusai vs a Jackson Pollock. One is neat, contained and consciously stylistic, the other looks like an explosion in a paint store.

[geek tragedy]

116. I've always been more of a Scorsese than a Godard fan. nt

[ProSense]

85. My favorite

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100251866

[BlueCaliDem]

149. And he got 103 RECS, too!

I've never seen a single post that was positive about President Obama or FLOTUS get that many recs around here.

Makes one wonder...

[geek tragedy]

164. Darcy Richardson's campaign only got 64 recs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=80304

[Cha]

172. Good post, JI7.. thanks.

[Fumesucker]

41. If you agree with any conservative ever about anything you buy the whole conservative line

Do you really want to go down that route?

For the record, I haven't expressed an opinion either way on the subject of the soldier. I'm really conflicted about the whole thing, rather like a lot of issues I see discussed here.

[geek tragedy]

47. No, they just agree with Fox News on how evil it was for Obama to

single that soldier out for praise in his speech.

Obviously, they think Obama is evil for different ideological reasons, but the Manichean thinking is very similar.

[Fumesucker]

55. I thought Dubya was and is evil (for varying values of "evil")

And Cheney for even more values of that word.

Does that make my thinking Manichean?

[geek tragedy]

57. killing a million Iraqis and torturing people is evil.

upsetting progressives in a speech is not evil.

the key to Manciheanism isn't positing the existence of evil, but seeing everything through that kind of prism

[Fumesucker]

66. Obama plays his cards shrewdly and close to his chest

It leaves a great deal of room for speculation as to what he actually thinks.

An information vacuum will be filled with speculation, it's axiomatic among humans, not all of that speculation will be positive. People gossip and gossip always grows in the telling.

DU would have loathed Dubya putting a wounded vet on stage, not everyone has gotten past the horror of knowing the disaster was coming in Iraq and being totally helpless to stop it.

[geek tragedy]

69. Sure, because we hated Dubya personally and inexorably. He hated everything he did.

The wounded vet reactions reveal a lot more about the people writing them than they do about the actual speech.

Rorschach test.

[Fumesucker]

96. That's true of any writing, yours and mine alike

Getting yourself out of your writing is hard or maybe impossible, I know I can't do it completely.

I think I have an understanding of both sides here at least a bit. I have my personal prejudices of course but I do try to see beyond them when I can and sometimes I feel like I succeed at it.

I wrote earlier about this subject on another thread that the long and sordid history of using wounded vets inclines people to see this as yet another example of just using a vet as a propaganda tool.

Why you expect people who have resisted some really intense propaganda in order to remain liberal to all of a sudden embrace stuff they hated not really that long ago just because it's a different person doing it I'm having a hard time comprehending.

Just because some people can do an ideological 180 on a dime and give nine cents change doesn't mean everyone else is so morally flexible also.

[geek tragedy]

107. oh, vets have been political footballs for a long time in this country.

not gonna disagree with that.

but, for a Democratic Preznit there's no sweet spot between "not recognizing our troops and valuing their contribution" and "exploiting them for jingoistic purposes." In this case, Obama got it from both ends, though no one representing a politically relevant constituency complained,

He's a grown man, comes with the territory.

There's some lack of self-awareness in the critics, though--criticizing him for allegely treating the soldier as a 'prop' and then turning around and critcizing him for not using him as a prop for an anti-war message.

the fact that the President has met the guy three times in person makes it a much different story than if the political operation had scouted up and down for a guy like that to use.

[Fumesucker]

120. I would have been disappointed if no one had complained about it

Do you really want to see the Democrats act just like the Republicans did for eight years with Dubya?

Godalmighty I hated that smug and sneering defense of all things Bushie with the heat of ten trillion lightning bugs.

Are you a parent by any chance? One of the hardest lessons I had to learn when I became a parent was being consistent, that was hard for me.

[geek tragedy]

129. No, too high strung and fond of traveling nt

[TheMathieu]

50. Like the way the far left trashes President Obama and reject Hillary Clinton when they do?

Or is that different?

[Fumesucker]

78. Welcome to the DU!

Stick around, you'll see a great deal of mud slinging from every side of this here circular spherical firing squad we all know and love as GD.

You have actually beamed into the middle a years long 24/7/365 food fight, all is by no means as it might appear at first blush.

[SidDithers]

48. DU rec...

Nailed it through the whole thread, geek.

Sid

[Captain Stern]

67. No surprise. That's pretty much how they roll.

If Obama acknowledges his appreciation of the military, he's pandering. If he doesn't, he's not appreciative of our military.

[FSogol]

70. K&R. Sounds familiar. n/t

[great white snark]

76. They have The Five and we have the 150 to 225.

Depending on how many Obama haters are online.

[geek tragedy]

90. 326 recommenders for the original hatefest nt

[OilemFirchen]

123. That's pretty much the whole barrel, yes?

About .002% of DU's total membership.

[Cha]

175. Yep.. this

place is crawling with them.

Feels so good to be in the minority on this board anyway. Good to be in the majority as far as those who support President Obama.



snip//

"The media loves to repeat the theme that Americans hate politicians, including President Obama. So they buried the news that people watching President Obama's State of the Union address had an overwhelmingly positive response. A CNN instant poll showed that 76% of viewers liked the speech, but their article covering that fact was mostly negative to match the negative media narrative. And that's the supposedly "mainstream" media, not even the ridiculously anti-Obama right-wingers such as Fox News and talk radio."

http://realamericanliberal.blogspot.com/2014/01/76-of-viewers-like-sotu-speech.html

[Whisp]

88. We got our practice in defending against this fucking shit, right here on DU

the local hero story of what a rotten and heartless s.o.b. Obama is.

I'm almost ready to laugh this off, but not quite. the massive stupidity is still too fresh.

[ProSense]

122. The OP sentiment is defending "DU values."

Yikes!

[Whisp]

125. made me think of how Republicans keep repeating that 'family values'

line of bullshit lies.

I think we got a Freudian.

[Jefferson23]

118. Fox are very sick people...sick, sick sick. n/t

[Whisp]

124. We who were disgusted by the Fox way of thinking are being called dumb.

But then, if you're smart, you read the damned speech in detail...and if you did, like as not you have some serious questions to ask.


double down

[Cha]

173. "dumb"? If that isn't

projecting I don't know what is.

This isn't the first time divisive shit like this has come down the pike and it won't be the last.

[LanternWaste]

131. I think the two sets of criticism are wholly separate concepts.

I think DUers who criticize Pres Obama for the melodramatic use of a sympathetic character are doing it from conviction and from belief. I also think the reason the GOP/Fox news criticism of it is predicated on one and only one agenda-- criticism of Pres Obama for its own sake. I think the two sets of criticism are wholly separate concepts.

Stalin once said, "the fascist government of Germany must be destroyed. Destroyed at all cost. Destroyed without mercy." I agree with his sentiment, though I can say with certainty that we did not in fact, read this as a bullet point handed out to us to say on cue-- to imply that as such would be I think, at best, disingenuous. Himmler wrote of the 'Big Lie'. It would be dishonest of me to say I disagree with him on its effectiveness. But I'm neither Stalin nor Himmler.

Thousands of people have died as result of this continuing conflict. Tens of thousands. Factors of that number are wounded and maimed. Though we understand that many people saw the solder's appearance as a face of the horrors or war, or the face of sacrifice, we must also understand that many other people believe that a State of the Union address should stand on its own-- no props, no background music, no light and sound show. That anything above and beyond that reduces the message itself to mere melodrama. And that any glorification of war, regardless of how subtle or how relevant, contains more darkness than it does light.

[Electric Monk]

144. I think you've hit the nail on the head, but that won't stop today's Two Minutes Hate. nt

[yowzayowzayowza]

165. That'd be a nano penny nail.

The GOP/Fox news criticism certainly originates both "from conviction and from belief" as well as "criticism of Pres Obama for its own sake."

What a freaken lameo rationalization. "...two sets of criticism are wholly separate concepts."

[Cha]

176. As in freakin human pretzel calbibre, yowzayowzayowza..

[yowzayowzayowza]

186. Hey ya, Cha.

Some things never change in these environs.

[Cha]

187. Hell to The NO X times

CLICKS MUST BE GENERATED even if it's Found in a Fox-Faux Hole on Bullshit Mountain.

Jon Stewart Absolutely Demolishes Fox News’ ‘Sh*t-Eating’ Shutdown Coverage

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-absolutely-destoys-fox-news-sht-eating-shutdown-coverage/

"Chaos on Bullshit Mountain": Jon Stewart Lampoons Fox News Response to Romney Videos

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/daily-show-jon-stewart-fox-news-bullshit-mountain-romney-secret-video

yowza@3~

[geek tragedy]

162. Those who oppose melodrama do not say that the President

makes them sick to their soul.

[rocktivity]

135. Shame on you, Mr. President!

rocktivity

[MineralMan]

136. How quaint.

Politics does, indeed, make strange bedfellows, it seems. A full circle the Worm Ouroboros makes.

[arely staircase]

140. the message discipline is impressive

They are all hitting the same talking points.

[Aldo Leopold]

141. Sounds familiar, doesn't it.

Same message. Only the dialect differs.

[DevonRex]

145. Seems strange to me that the African American

President of the United States, Barack Obama, cannot honor a wounded warrior who has served his nation FAR beyond the call of duty without being called all sorts of names that amount to the n-word, really. I mean what else is it, when EVERY OTHER FUCKING PRESIDENT HONORS PEOPLE, INCLUDING VETERANS, AT THE SOTU AND IT IS FINE BUT WHEN THE BLACK GUY DOES IT IT'S SUDDENLY SICKENING OR A SHIELD???? This is MY OPINION and by God I have a fucking right to it. I even have a right to say it, just as the people who are "sickened" that President Obama dared to show the stark reality of war on your TVs have a right to say that.

Personally, I'd think people would want MORE reality shown. But hey, go back to Bush fantasy land and Mission Accomplished if you want. And Fox News.

[cry baby]

146. At least 327 DUers agree.

Edited to add that I think that line of thinking is so sad and cynical.

[weissmam]

147. Bottom line

If you ask the Ranger that was involved he would say that he was honored to be there and honored to serve his country , the military isn't perfect far from it, but it was the first organization to integrate and the first organization to recognize LBGT. That being said the only opinion that matter is the Soldier that was there , everybody elses opinion doesn't count!

[Jamaal510]

150. FOX News and (part of) DU finally agree on something. eom

[bravenak]

151. Sounds like DU yesterday.

I knew this would happen.

[William769]

155. Kick & recommended.

[greatauntoftriplets]

180. I'm splitting my sides at the irony of the OP!

[William769]

181. It took me a minute but I figured out your comment.

[greatauntoftriplets]

199. Sorry about that!

But seriously, it's comedy gold!

[gordianot]

156. I have as much regard for Gutfield as the others who made similar arguments regarding this soldier.

They should be saluted and more importantly cared for in every need for the rest of their lives. Cory is no longer a sheild but an obligation of those he served.

I am old enough to remember visiting World War I soldiers with my Grandfather still hospitalized from gas attacks, alive in the 1950's. Remembering those brave souls makes me tear up.

[BlueCaliDem]

157. Kick and recommended!

The eerie similarities between DU's ObamaHaters and Fox "News" Channel ObamaHaters can't be pointed out enough, GT.

Hate makes for strange bedfellows...

[Cha]

166. Fox news.. garbage in Garbage out. It's all fucking bullshit that only faux/limbaugh,

propaganda types would glom on to.. oh wait. It's contagious and anybody can pick that shit outta the air.

Did Gutfield get sick in his soul, too? His gut? What!? I'm Not going to CLICK o to the Trolling For CLICKS CLUB.

Who cares if they're echoing ignorant shit? It just highlights how ignorant minds think alike.

[morningfog]

178. They have the exact opposite reaction than me.

I liked the rest of the speech, hated the use of the soldier.

[Rex]

195. Same here.

nt.

[Cha]

197. But, were they "sick in their soul"? Otherwise it's not

quite enough fucking drama.

[SunsetDreams]

198. Oh good grief

[yellowcanine]

201. Should make this clear that this was the Facile Five. Then we could ignore it.

[Arkana]

202. Hello pot. This is kettle. You're black.

[Whisp]

203. You want to hear something worse?

Here is a much more respectful way to treat soldiers other than propgandize them. Profit from them!

1. Create a firestorm of controversy, knowing that there is a certain segment that is guaranteed to approve no matter how rw the story is.

2. Wait a while and do a Part 2 follow up when the audience is still warm, but don't show the entire Part 2 - plant juicy parts and provide a link to read the rest.

I wonder how many pieces of silver that was worth.

A Fistful of Clickies:

[arely staircase]

206. then enjoy the ego boosting

I stand with ..... threads.