General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere's been a lot of talk here lately about "privilege", so it may be useful to define it ...
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)pocoloco
(3,180 posts)Dildo stopped a war!
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)There may areas where woman have privilege, just as there are areas where Black People or Native Americans or Hispanics, but in society as a whole, white males have the most privilege.
Don't they?
Bryant
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)You admit in your post that isn't the case. You appear to be trying to find an argument where there is none.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I expressed myself pretty badly up above, I have to admit. Within that limited space, it might be comfortable for a Black person and not comfortable for a white person - but obviously those examples aren't reflective of society as a whole. And all of the legal and societal mechanisms generally favor White males.
Bryant
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)its all about unearned benefits. Even in predominately Black areas/locations, Black folks hold any privilege over white folks.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)that you could liken to *not breaking the law, WTF?* and that all w/m privilege disappeared instantaneously, in a puff of smoke 30- 40 years ago, because laws. That is some clueless shit, right there.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)is that in both cases, white guys are feeling sorry for themselves for not having every advantage every moment of their lives. It is amazing to see them scramble desperately for examples of their oppression. Can't hang out in the ghetto, date the head cheerleader, and say "n****r" and "b***h" with impunity. I have heard all these examples of oppression cited here.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)and the subtext through all of it is they think they deserve more than the rest of us.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Imagine there is discovered a cure for blindness.
Using the responses around here to w/p, does anyone doubt the cure would be withheld the cure.
Would the withhold be done so that the blind would remain bind? No! That would just be the unfortunate effect.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)...than an atheist gay white transgendered male?
Conflating privileges makes the entire concept worthless for any meaningful discussion.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)worthy and meaningful. And these things that are not worthy or "meaningful" are inevitably, things they have no experience with, or concerns about. I can't count how many times men have walked in on feminist discussions here and made emphatic statements that were completely inaccurate. They have no history, knowledge or experience and yet feel comfortable setting women straight. It is embarrassing.
And that's how it works- you assume you know more, or your word games and semantics are more "meaningful" than others concerns. It's bullshit.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I don't take ownership of what any other man says anymore than I expect you to take ownership of everything all feminists say. Trying to put me in the boat with everything said by someone else is silly and pointless. It's pretty rare that I will claim that anything anyone says is "competely inaccurate". I'm not sure you can make the same claim. I have my opinions and you have yours. Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I'm wrong and vise versa. If you have something relevant to this conversation and specific that I've said that you want to contradict, then please offer it. Lumping me with whatever group you're trying to put me in with some abstract claim of bullshittery doesn't interest me.
I would like to see someone quantify male privilege and as yet I haven't seen anyone, self-described feminist or otherwise do so. White privilege is pretty easy to quantify with things like education, employment, life expectancy, health, crime, and justice. When most of those same metrics are applied to gender you find men getting the shit end of the stick. Furthermore when you apply those exact same metrics to men within a non-white class, you also find men predominately getting the shit end of the stick. At best gender privilege is a wash. So what does male privilege mean exactly? Experience or not I'm pretty sure the subject is not beyond the scope of reason regardless of what you suggest. If you can't quantify it in terms that clearly describe it (as is the case with white privilege) then basically all you have is your belief which is not much different than those who believe in a higher power. Regardless of how firm your convictions are, it does not make it so. All conflating various privileges does is wrap up those you may or may not be able to support in a nice wrapper for ones you can, presumably to make the former more palatable. I don't see how it offers anything useful to further the discussion of privilege of any type. YMMV.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and what is "worth discussing" here. Parse parse parse, instead of discuss. Because somehow life gave you the idea YOU set the standards.
Trust me I get it, and you are not the only one who frequently derails with nonsense about there not being "terms that clearly describe it". What a dodge.
Speaking of "belief"- those who share your views can fully admit men had privilege during the bulk of the 20th century but claim it all just vanished in a cloud of smoke when he equal pay act was passed or rowe v wade. And this from someone posing as an intellectual, yep. I'd say our mileage varies a fuck ton then, LOL. Because that shit is ridiculous. `
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I'm supposed to accept a set of abstract standards based on something I can't experience because I was born with a penis. That much I get. I can't say I'd give you much for it.
You have no idea what my views are and seem perfectly content to lump me with others and pretend that amounts to some sort of contradiction. Sounds a lot like sexist stereotyping to me.
Just sayin'
Cheers!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)This rabbit hole gets funnier every time you dig a little more.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Speaking of rabbit holes and what not.
If all you want to do is trade barbs, this is getting banal rather quickly. All you are doing is wasting my time if not your own as I just really don't find you that entertaining.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)divine meaning in just about anything. It's all so abstract, it all just befuddles you. Good to know.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Ya just gotta believe.
I hear that quite a bit also in religious discussions also.
I take back what I said. You can be entertaining and should be commended for it.
Have a nice weekend.
Cheers!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)because woo ooo ooo, nothing is as it seems.... woo ooo ooo.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)i.e., Manifestation of Privilege
chervilant
(8,267 posts)(Giggle, snort, gasp!)
Thanks for the much needed levity this morning!
(BTW, rambling verbosity aside, it's quite simple really: being born WHITE with a PENIS affords you many privileges. I realize you're working hard to deny that reality, but at least you're being funny now.)
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)White, yes. Straight, yes. Christian, yes. Able-bodied, yes. Plumbing matches gender identity, yes. Gender it's a wash.
What's funny is those (like you) who are trying so hard to prove gender privilege can't manage to do so without conflating one of the others. The idea of privilege has no value whatsoever if your argument for it fails and if you can't quantify it, you've failed. If there's nothing quantified, there's nothing to correct. All those other privileges can be easily quantified. As yet I haven't seen anyone on DU do it for gender privilege or even so much as make an attempt. Instead they simply assume everyone has to believe in it. What they think they are accomplishing is anyone's guess. Evidently their sanctimoniousness manages to entertain themselves and provides the opportunity for silly text chuckles, so there's that I suppose.
Cheers!
chervilant
(8,267 posts)To expand your knowledge of gender inequality, try any of the following:
The Mermaid and the Minotaur (Dinnerstein)
Outrageous Acts and Every Day Rebellions (Steinem)
In a Different Voice (Gilligan)
Beyond Power (French)
and any number of other research that explains gender inequality.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)"concerns" about where "transgendered atheists" fit into the big picture. And Dutch Elms.
Come on now, no one could believe you actually give a shit.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)As if that's ever going to happen. Until then I'll just consider posts like these trollery and ignore them. Your banality has reached the limits of my amusement.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)You'd be contributing just as much here passed out at your keyboard as you do awake- contemplating how much privilege you Elm tree possesses.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Blah, Blah, Blah.
(Excuse me, I obviously mistook you for someone genuinely interested in research and critical thinking.)
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)However, you confuse privilege and gender inequality, then suggest I research an obviously one sided reading list as your proof of concept. Furthermore you now offer condescension in lieu of contradiction which doesn't inspire much interest in whatever critical thinking skills you possess.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)You hide it well.
(And, reposting that pyramid of your fave verbal gambits is just sad.)
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)But I value input that approaches the top and I haven't seen anything you've offered that breaks into the middle as yet. The pyramid is not mine and derives from an essay by Paul Graham. It is frequently referenced by those who actually do value critical thinking and good faith discussion. YMMV.
Cheers!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)game or trap- and complete waste of energy. Just like a thousand teenage trolls who paste MRA and Tea bagger crap and think they have "facts".
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So lecturing me on such things doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, especially teenage trollery which seems more than a bit like projection.
Just sayin'
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Another example of not getting it, making it all about them ("them" being straight white men), etc.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)There are different kids of privilege: race, class, gender, sexual orientation, etc. ..
As a white woman, I benefit from white privilege, even as I face sexism.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and as a straight, Black male, I benefit from male privilege, even as I face racism.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)how it plays out (for white folks that think they understand "privilege" than what it is.
The problem I have with this is it takes it from being an unearned grant to a class and makes it an individual thing.
A white, straight, male retains his privilege in this society, even as he abhors, even works to end, racism, homophobia and genderism.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)in light of the many denials of such privilege by many members of this site.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)It is enforced.
ChazII
(6,204 posts)and by that I mean their face is not disfigured in some manner. I wonder how many here have been called freak or monster when they are at a restaurant or out shopping.
Yes, this is probably lower on the scale than male vs female as well as skin color but using the definition above most DUers are facially privilege.
http://www.heartsandminds.org/self/links/facialdisfigurement.htm
This link shows how NF disfigures the body and NFers are not privilege but because it is not a problem to others personally people do not see how they are privileged.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0SO8xKjpetSDkgARTJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0c2FxYXU4BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1NNRTM5OF8x?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-901-s&va=neurofibromatosis+type+1
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)ChazII
(6,204 posts)place to place it but I was using the definition as describe on the OT's photo. Personally, my son and and many of my friends with Neurofibromatosis would disagree.
I appreciate your comment as it gives a good insight on the issue.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)disagree with the OP's definition of privilege?
Anyway, I'm glad you and your son has such a good support system in your friends. I only know a little of NF, but it sounds like it can be difficult to deal with.
ChazII
(6,204 posts)I agree with both. If one does not see the problem because they do not face it or have family/friends that deal with it then yes, it is a privilege. Being asked to leave public swimming pools or move to a different part of a restaurant because other patrons have told management we are causing them to lose their appetites is hurtful. Luckily there are those in my NF cyber family who have management stand up for us and tell those patrons that we will not be moved
The Oxford English Dictionary traces the world ableism back to 1981; likely the word was in use amongst activists before then.
[< ABLE adj. + -ISM suffix, after RACISM n., SEXISM n.2, etc. Compare ABLEIST adj., and also earlier ABLED adj. 2, ABLED n.]
orig. U.S.
Discrimination in favour of able-bodied people; prejudice against or disregard of the needs of disabled people.
In regards to this definition often employers believe that because we look different we can't do jobs. As referenced before there have been documented cases where the wait staff and some managers have been dismissed because patrons did not care for their looks and were also afraid of 'catching' the bumps/growths from the NF person.
In some cases modifications need to be made. An example would be a position that would require most of the time being on one's feet. A cashier could have a chair or others more frequent breaks to rest their back.
Cinnabonbon, thank you very much for your understanding. NF presents itself in so many ways that even the medical community is confused. Very often the patient has to teach the doctor about this genetic disorder.
Long story short, I agree with both views depending on how one wants to debate the state. Yes, I am being wish washy but thank you, again for your understanding.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)I agree with your first paragraph. One side of being privileged is having the luxury to be blissfully ignorant about how unfairly people are treated, because it doesn't happen to someone they know. I mean, why should it cross a person's mind to seek out knowledge about something they doesn't even know exist? It's when people tell them that it exists that it's important for them to listen.
I think you can argue that NF can fall under both, too! It simply depend on your point of view. But even so, ableism and the more specific definition you used earlier have the same goal in common. I think there might be a possibility to find very good allies on the ableism movement if you'd ever need it. There's more about ableism vs disablism vs lookism on wiki, if you're curious. (I personally have a hard time telling them apart sometimes.)
Anyhow, when it comes to talk about who is privileged in society and who isn't, what it boils down to is trying to put words to a certain oppression. People with NF and similar conditions have historically been treated like second class citizens, right? Hell, I think that the US had "ugly laws" for a long time that said that people with disfigurements weren't allowed in public. So no matter how you spin it, I think you can safely say that people who aren't conventionally attractive or suffer from something like this is definitely treated differently in society. Most of the reasons for that is because people are ignorant about the condition, I think. That's where some of the stereotypes come from too. Like the one that implies that people with certain issues can't do a job, which is clearly based on bullsh*t.
Thank you for the interesting discussion, Chaz. I am always interested in knowing more. It sucks that it's hard to find doctors who are up to date on the condition. I am sad to say that it's not uncommon to have ignorant doctors. My mother has a rather rare problem too, and whenever she needs to go to her doctor, she feels like she has to 'educate' him instead of him doing his research first. Very annoying!
ChazII
(6,204 posts)a new term: lookism. That is one I have not heard of before. Thank you for this discussion and teaching me as well.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)to introduce me to more links about NF. Thank you. I'll make sure to read more about it, so I can be an ally if needed. I think the best way to battle society's harmful treatment is to be educate ourselves about what is happening.
Anyway, I enjoyed our discussion!
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)It angers and saddens me to hear you and those you love have been treated so cruelly.
ChazII
(6,204 posts)for your empathy and understanding.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)A privilege is a right or service that you receive that most people don't.
KG
(28,751 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)you know what is not a problem to me personally?
Getting busted for smoking pot.
I guess I must have "non-pothead privilege" or something.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)nonsense that is not even remotely related to the issue. "Non-pothead privlege"? Seriously, do you think anyone gives a shit?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)a) it is ridiculous to call non-pot smokers "privileged".
b) if you wanted to do something about unjust drug laws, you would not go around talking about "non potsmoking privilege".
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)just STFU about the societal issues that relate to those laws?
Nope, and no way. What total pretzel logic, LOL.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)His argument was that the fact that somewhere there exist black people with more money than him (like Beyoncé or Oprah) that means there is no such thing as white privilege, or at least it doesn't apply to him.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)^I guess this means nothing, right?
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I was summarizing what I recall the other poster saying in the past.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)I was just trying to add on to your point, since you mentioned Beyonce and Oprah.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)that being comfy in the ghetto and using the word n****r are privileges. Yeah. People here actually spew this crap.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)he said that his sister(s) and sister-in-law(s) are doing better than him and his brothers ... I recall this because it all came flooding back to me when rand paul made the same argument (in his republican?/libertarian? response to the SOTU Address).
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)since our economy changed and men can no longer ALWAYS out earn women with more skills and talent, they are deeply resented. And held up as proof there is no income inequality anymore.
Because women who work harder to prepare for the job market should somehow be compensated the same as men who have ignored employment trends, and assumed they'd be able to rely on the advantages of being physically stronger. Women never had that as a fallback position. If we skipped out on school, we had waiting on tables, and living on the edge of poverty if we did not have a reliable partner to help out. Women have realized these are not great options in the long term.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)I also agree with the posters up-thread that point out that just because someone acknowledges your plight doesn't mean you are any less privileged.
So far people in the thread have mentioned race and gender as points of privilege and the lack there of depending on your status. I will add mine:
Being an adoptee. Most non-adoptees take for granted that they can fill out their family medical history when they visits the doctor. This information is important for a physician when giving medical care: when should a woman begin mammograms, when medications should be avoided because of kidney disease in the family, and the list goes on.
Adult adoptees in most states are legally kept from their own original birth certificates. For some adoptees (mostly older) this means that they can not get state identification, which also means that for some of those they cannot vote. Being kept from your own identification means that we are forever treated as a child. I cannot tell you how degrading this is.
Many, if not most adoptees long to research their genealogy, follow their family tree to explore the long ago history of their ancestors.
So yes, I am well versed in those with privilege believing that these are not important issues. And for those who have taken the time to understand these issues, I ask that you demand better for us.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)seveneyes
(4,631 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Whether race, class, gender, sexual orientation, etc. . It is "given" by society in which we live and the ways in which some are rewarded and others discriminated against. No individual "gives" it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)how'd that work exactly for women and black men born as chattel?
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Privilege exists only when society/people give certain groups/people privilege. Sure, someone can be born into the molds that define those that receive said privilege. The word to focus on is "give". It's the people/society that give or allow the privilege(s).
No tomes or secrets involved.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)not sure how why you would assume it - in the context of a political website, and not some personal empowerment one- has much to do with individuals giving it. context is helpful.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)If we had a society without a hierarchy, without a construct that props one group up at the expense of another. If we made a fair society from scratch, differences might not be recognized as flaws or privileges. Maybe. It would be interesting to see if humans would be able to live without a power structure like that, or if we'd turn everything into complete chaos.
But right now we don't have a fair society. We have an old system and ingrown hierarchies that are hard to shake, and that effects people even before they're born ( white wealthy people have the chance to get better health care and eat better, giving their baby a better chance at being grown healthy, etc etc.) It is so ingrown and normalized that it's practically invisible to some, because it's just "normal", you know? People are born into the structure, but they may not realize that it's a power structure that is less dangerous to them than it is to people without their privilege.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)this little old "white" fella ain't so "privileged", huh?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Quitting smoking.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Having to go to the Vet.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)making sure the limo driver is available to take me to court- on my charges of DUI, blocking off a residential street for 4 AM drag racing, and abandoning my pet monkey in Germany.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Ergo, Privilege.
Actually, Nickelback is sort of a problem.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Monkey pancakes, liver spots, termites at my summer home, and vacuum cleaner salesmen.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)absolutely zero danger of that happening.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It's not very common around here, but we had a bad season last year and lots of people in the area lost cedar elms which are native to Texas.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Tragic, the loss of some of those beautiful old trees.
However, my point I suppose is that it's not a personal existential threat to me, me not being an elm tree.
And as such it qualifies as a form of "privilege" as per the definition in the OP.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Now my Texas ash is a different story.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I think that's complete nonsense as a definition, I'm afraid.
Plenty of extremely privileged people don't think like that at all.
Plenty of people who think like that are not privileged.
So as a definition it's completely useless.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)I'm white in America. This brings me most of the advantages available on the planet. Just in America... No one asks me for my long form birth certificate. No one questions my citizenship ever. I'm only marginally concerned about being tazed to death at a traffic stop. I could go on with these types of things for days.
Not only that but simply being an American gives me countless advantages as an inhabitant of this planet. Our political process can be a problem but this is no North Korea or Saudi Arabia. Simply being lucky enough to be born in a western culture is being born on 3rd base already.
My privilege is there regardless of the fact I am well aware of the myriad ways my peers work to keep advantages for themselves and away from other groups. My privilege is there regardless of the fact I have spent a lifetime fighting my own peers over this.
Perhaps your saying is accurate for the tea party goons ..... but it's not true in general.
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)I get the idea of privilege on one level it's better to be born a straight white male because of issues faced by women, the glbt community, individuals of other races, and those who are born to the wrong gender . But here's where things kind of get hazy for me. Is privilege an absolute always. I mean I was born a straight white male but I have an eye disease that's causing me to lose my vision and I will be completely blind in a few years in fact I lost my job recently mostly cause of that. I have some mental health issues that have put a stigma on me amongst people that have been around me. Also I have alot of scars all over my body that make strangers shun me I've seen people pull they're children away from me because of the way I look. So to me personally it would seem I'd rather have been born anyone or anything else. I also don't think anyone would feel it would be better to be me. So that's where my issues with privilege start to materialize I know to a certain extent being a male I'll make more money than a female. But there's also studies that show the disfigured and disabled get paid less and are picked less for promotions than those who are able bodied and more normal looking for lack of a better term.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)if you were black, instead of white (in your same circumstances) you'd more likely to have less opportunity and "good connections" , less pay, worse public transit services and more enviornmental pollution, and a much better chance of getting arrested when you didn't deserve it.
If you were a woman in your same circumstances, you'd more likely be paid less, have a greater chance of trying to raise a a baby alone and plunged into poverty, have a greater chance at being abused or beaten by your partner, and have a lot fewer opportunities for jobs.
Conversely, if you were healthy, had great opportunities, and "normal looking"- you'd be doing (on average) much better than black men or the majority of women who share those same attributes. Safer, better compensated, and with much less risk of plunging into poverty overnight due to incarceration or pregnancy. The only thing up for debate really, is how much better off.
Hope that helped, and wishing you the best.
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)working person in the nation. All of us!
It would be easier to raise a family if both men and women routinely took 1/2 of the maternity leave- and would remove an excuse to underpay women and strengthen family bonds, reducing the pressure of sole breadwinner on men. It would be better for all of us if there were no failing schools perpetuating poverty and violence, or toxic dumps in any populated areas- impoverished or not.
The powers that be set it up as a struggle against the races, or against men- when we shld be coming together and pushing back- demanding more of them. They love it when we can't see beyond our noses to the big picture, or are so desperate that we have no ability to struggle beyond the day to day survival mode, They push govt failure on us till we become totally complacent about it, and we tend to forget they are picking our pockets every moment they can. And that we all deserve better,
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)As far as the powers that be they need to keep us fighting otherwise we'd come for them.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)croppy down". God help the PTB if lasting peace ever broke out.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Thank you.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 2, 2014, 08:24 PM - Edit history (1)
I sometimes feel like I lose a few IQ points just reading some of this nonsense.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)All the usual glib deniers...
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)What are we talking about here? There is a difference IMHO between discrimination and privilege. In all of the animal kingdom, and we are part of that, privileges exist. The black widow spider after being fertilized will kill her mate most of the time. The song birds are mostly male. Homo Sapiens is as much of a tribal animal as chimpanzees. The medicine man has been given his"privilege" by the tribe, until he does not perform his duties according to the rules. The elders rule generally until the youngsters rebel. The job of governor was given to CC by the voters, until he loses it due to maleficence (hopefully very soon). MLK became the leader for justice,because the black people gave him their"vote", and he was willing to take that risk. Whether there is a ruling class or not is more or less up to the people in their groups, tribes or nations. It is discrimination which is the true evil in my eyes, and that depends on education as well as laws. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)it's often not recognized because people want to believe they earned everything they have. and it's difficult to prove a negative- anecdotally. but there are documented unfair hiring practices, etc. that show just as worthy others get routinely passed over, or underpaid because of skin color or sex. I think it bothers people because they think being aware is about guilt, it's really about checking to see if this is going on around you, and working to be more inclusive- and less tolerant of those marginalizing others.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Does not all this come down rather to discrimination? Just thinking back in history. The Cars in Russia were the rulers- and coming with privileges- took their risks. Well, 1917 proved that they could not keep it going. Again, I believe that laws and education (and the passing the baton from one generation to another changes peoples minds. If, for instance, women in our country would vote to the greatest extent for a Congress friendly to their demands, a lot of different laws would be passed. Yes, I think that the media would not cooperate, and that is the most troubling part of the equation. Still, to me, discrimination only last as long as the public will allow them to exist, and in spite of all at my old age I keep hoping. Thank you for responding in such a nice way.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and not just good laws- but better ones, that are actually enforced. right now we let everything private regulate itself, god knows what these corporations are doing. more watch dog media- I wish that would be our new version of reality TV!
that's my christmas wish list!
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)My point is that you may remove privileges by whatever means, but to remove discrimination is a longer and much harder road. Just look at the former Jugoslavia and its 3 different cultures.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)education is key. as is a healthy economy where wealth is more fairly distributed. when the rich business owners skim too much off the top- they create poverty and stress on the lower classes that tends to make them care more about saving their own ass f- and less about fair and non discriminatory laws and workplace practices.
westerebus
(2,976 posts)That is the privilege.
If you add male to WP it changes to not having to be aware of discrimination of minorities and women.
Which extends the scope of the privilege.
To take it one step further, straight white male privilege means not having to be aware of the discrimination of minorities, women and the GLBT community.
Which extends the privilege to ignoring the majority of those who post here.
The top of the scale would add rich to swmp where by 99% of the population is ignored.
I personally haven't encounter any of the 1% here on DU.
For that matter, with the exception of a few trolls, I haven't found a person who supports discrimination based on race, color, gender, sexual orientation, or belief here on DU.
Your experience may not be the same as mine.
You may not agree with me on how I define SWMP.
My preference is to support those who would support me. I'm selfish in that regard. In a political system that depends on division and discrimination and injustice, what choice do I have other than to protect what I value?
I value equality. I value human rights.
We as a Nation are no where close to where we ought to be.
Thanks for listening.