Is compassion required to be a human being?

[oldhippie]

Or in other words, is compassion an innate characteristic of humans?

[Deep13]

1. of course it is.

normal emotion, which is what we call instincts when humans have them.

[Cleita]

2. No. If that were true, we wouldn't have psychopaths ergo sociopaths.

However, I believe compassion is essential to creating a functioning society.

[Scootaloo]

15. Actually both make a strong case otherwise

Sociopathy is a medical condition, the lack of empathy and compassion. it's considered a deviant state from the human norm. ergo, empathy and compassion are the norm for people, and it is the sociopath who is unwell

[Cleita]

16. Yeah, that's something to think about.

I would rather think that compassion is a human condition, but sometimes wonder especially in the attitude too many have about the treatment of lesser species as the fact their pain doesn't matter or even exist.

[Scootaloo]

18. Altruism is an conspecies trait, yeah

That is, it's innate, but expressed only towards your own kind "normally." The tricky part is where hte borders of "your own kind" lie. Most other animals that display altruism have a broad variety of it - vampire bats will share meals with any other bat in the colony, which cna be hundreds and hundreds of bats, while most canines keep their altruism to the immediate family - and are prone to kicking out ivergent-looking members of the family (melanistic wolves, for example) - there are also many cases of this trend being broken, though mainly from captivity ("animal odd couples," basically)

Humans are a social animal, evolved from social animals. we're innately altruistic. But like any other animal we come with "programming" (if you will) that can turn this altruism on or off, depending on circumstances like who would be on the receiving end of the altruism.

So humans are altruistic... but most of us still eat other animals. Humans are altruistivc, but there are still no shortage of bigots. Humans are altruistic, but selfishness is still rampant.

Sociopathy is the inability to feel compassion or empathy, it's where something is missing, whatever genes or brain structures are involved are different. Greed and hate however, are developed behaviors, which is something else wholly - thus a person can be a loving spuse and excellent parent to their children... and still think that lighting a cross on someone's front lawn is a good idea.

[liberal_at_heart]

3. Yes, compassion is innate. So is greed.

As much as we like to play the I'm the good guy, they're the bad guy scenario to make ourselves feel good, we all have the same characteristics. Some act on them differently, but if we took a close look at ourselves we would find behaviors in ourselves that are just like the bad guys we don't like. Same goes for the good characteristics such as compassion.

[ananda]

13. I don't think greed is innate.

I believe that it springs from oppression and great
fear of scarcity induced by oppressors.

[Fumesucker]

30. The great fear of scarity is induced by nature mostly

Staying consistently well fed is a recent innovation in human civilization and has not yet spread even to all of the USA, let alone the rest of the world.

[Squinch]

4. Nope. Lots of folks running around out there with none of it.

[gollygee]

5. No

See above reply about sociopaths. A human without a conscience is a sociopath, and a sociopath is a human.

[oldhippie]

7. Is a conscience the same as compassion? nt

[gollygee]

8. Compassion requires empathy

and I think empathy requires a conscience. Read "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout.

[Humanist_Activist]

19. That doesn't make it a norm though, indeed, sociopathy is generally regarded as pathological...

it can interfere, severely, with and being able to function in society, empathy and compassion, at least on some level, is required to be able to function as humans under most circumstances, otherwise we would have went extinct a long time ago.

[gollygee]

20. Yes but if you can be a human being and not have compassion

then having compassion is not an inherent part of being a human being.

[Humanist_Activist]

23. I don't see how that follows, I would view sociopathy as a type of disability...

people who have it lack empathy for others, they may be able to function, they may not, they are still human, but that doesn't mean that compassion isn't an inherent part of human nature. Just like the fact that blind people are still human doesn't mean that sight isn't an inherent part of us as a species.

[gollygee]

24. He asked if having compassion is an inherent part of being a human being

A human being with a disability is still a human being. Inherent means essential, necessary, permanent. Like being cold is an inherent part of being an ice cube. If it isn't cold, it isn't an ice cube. But you can be a human being and not have compassion, whether it's a part of human nature or not. That attribute is not an inherent part of being a human being.

This is all semantics. We're arguing over the word "inherent." There are people without compassion, therefore it is not an inherent part of being a human being. It is a part of human nature that most people have.

Edited to add that I see he didn't use the word "inherent" but he did ask if it is required to be a human being, which is what inherent means. If human beings exist without compassion, then compassion is not required to be a human being.

[Warpy]

6. I think it can be taught or destroyed

so no, it's not innate, sad to say. It's taught by parents who want a civilized world. It's destroyed by parents who want a dog-eat-dog world of bullies and victims.

[RobertEarl]

9. Just for hippies

A real hippie would not have to even question the matter.

[oldhippie]

11. Hey Buddy! How ya doin'?

A real hippie would not have to even question the matter.

Well, I did. And there seems to be some differences of opinion as to the answer.

Isn't there a glowing starfish somewhere calling you?

[RobertEarl]

14. Since you aked: Starfish

Hippies care about the environment. Real hippies anyway

Fukushima-related radioactive materials measured across entire Northern Hemisphere

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110407121343.htm

""Since the double disaster of the 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami that affected hundreds of thousands of people and seriously damaged the Fukushima Daichi power plant in Japan on 11 March 2011, minute traces of radioactive emissions from Fukushima have spread across the entire Northern Hemisphere. A monitoring network designed to detect signs of nuclear explosions picked up these traces from the stricken power plant. To date, more than 30 radionuclide stations that are part of the International Monitoring System have provided information on the spread of radioactive particles and noble gases from the Fukushima accident.""

*************************

Point being it is adding up, this radiation

There is more and more of it in the oceans. Some previous wasting could have been because of Chernobyl and weapon testing. Pretty much anywhere in the N. Hemisphere. Those deposits could be contributors. The DoE report below details that they still find traces in the sea life from Alaska tests.

Now we have Fukushima. Not only did it make deposits via air transport, but it now has been found in the NW pacific as described in another link below.

It is adding up. Spreading. The whole N. Pacific is now contaminated. Not making this up, it is all real science as linked below in follow up replies of mine.

*********************
In this report from the DOE, US government, it is described why they test for radioisotopes, where they test, when they test and some test findings. Note the excerpted listing for plutonium found in the mussels that were tested. This finding confirms the idea that plutonium can be passed up the food chain to the starfish.

http://www.lm.doe.gov/Amchitka/Sites.aspx

Title: Department of Energy: Biological Monitoring at Amchitka Appears to Show Impacts from Fukushima Dai-ichi Incident.

The U.S. Department of Energy Office Legacy Management (LM) has a long-term stewardship mission to protect human health and the environment from the legacy of underground nuclear testing conducted at Amchitka Island, Alaska, from 1965 to 1971. Atmospheric monitoring in the United States showed elevated cesium activities shortly after the nuclear incident. LM scientists anticipated that atmospheric transport of cesium would potentially increase the cesium activities in the 2011 biological samples collected near Amchitka. Because cesium-134 has a relatively short half-life of 2 years and indicates leakage from a nuclear reactor, it is a clear indicator of a recent nuclear accident.

Because the Amchitka 2011 sampling event occurred soon after the Fukushima nuclear accident, the biota impacted by atmospheric precipitation showed the greatest impact (e.g., species that live in freshwater or shallow ocean waters) when compared to marine biota living in deeper water. This is because ocean currents are a slower transport process than wind currents. LM scientists anticipate that the marine biota will show the impacts of Fukushima during the next sampling event, currently scheduled to occur in 2016.

(One snip from report about the amounts found pg 226)

* Plutonium-239 — 4.194 pCi/kg Horse Mussel tissue

******************

Starfish facts


Diet of the starfish >> source wikipedia

Most species are generalist predators, eating microalgae, sponges, bivalves, snails and other small animals. Some species are detritivores, eating decomposing organic material and faecal matter. The crown-of-thorns starfish consumes coral polyps. The processes of feeding and capture may be aided by special parts; Pisaster brevispinus, the short-spined pisaster from the West Coast of America, can use a set of specialized tube feet to dig itself deep into the soft substrate to extract prey (usually clams). Grasping the shellfish, the starfish slowly pries open the prey's shell by wearing out its abductor muscle, and then inserts its inverted stomach into the crack to digest the soft tissues. The gap between the valves need only be a fraction of a millimeter wide for the stomach to gain entry.


*****************
Ecological impact of starfish >>>> source wikipedia

Starfish devouring mussel
Pisaster ochraceus consuming a mussel in central California

Starfish are keystone species in their respective marine communities. Their relatively large sizes, diverse diets and ability to adapt to different environments makes them ecologically important. The term "keystone species" was in fact first used by Robert Paine in 1966 to describe a starfish, Pisaster ochraceus. When studying the low intertidal coasts of Washington state, Paine found that predation by P. ochraceus was a major factor in the diversity of species. Experimental removals of this top predator from a stretch of shoreline resulted in lower species diversity and the eventual domination of Mytilus mussels, which were able to outcompete other organisms for space and resources. Similar results were found in a 1971 study of Stichaster australis on the intertidal coast of the South Island of New Zealand. S. australis was found to have removed most of a batch of transplanted mussels within two or three months of their placement, while in an area from which S. australis had been removed, the mussels increased in number dramatically, overwhelming the area and threatening biodiversity.



Survival of ocean warming and ph change for mussels

A 2009 study found that P. ochraceus is unlikely to be affected by ocean acidification as severely as other marine animals with calcareous skeletons. In other groups, structures made of calcium carbonate are vulnerable to dissolution when the pH is lowered. Researchers found that when P. ochraceus were exposed to 21 °C (70 °F) and 770 ppm carbon dioxide (beyond rises expected in the next century), they were relatively unaffected. Their survivability is likely due to the nodular nature of their skeletons, which are able to compensate for a shortage of carbonate by growing more fleshy tissue.


******************

Links and other sources

Lead Researcher: Fukushima pollution may be causing sea star epidemic on West Coast — Sea urchins, sea cucumbers also affected — “Something’s making them susceptible”… “It’s unlike anything we’ve seen”… “Populations go locally extinct overnight, literally”
http://enenews.com/lead-researcher-fukushima-pollution-a-cause-of-epidemic-wiping-out-starfish-along-west-coast-sea-urchins-and-sea-cucumbers-also-affected-something-is-making-them-susceptible-infection-it

Experts: Fukushima can’t be excluded as factor in sea stars turning to goo along West Coast; It hasn’t been ruled out — They’re “particularly proficient” at absorbing radioisotopes; 1,000 times more plutonium than fish
http://enenews.com/colonies-of-starfish-turning-to-mush-disintegrating-into-white-goo-experts-we-cant-exclude-fukushima-radiation-it-hasnt-been-ruled-out-starfish-particularly-proficient-at-absorbing-ra


*************************

Newest report of Fukushima contamination in the Pacific

This report describes how radionuclides from Fukushima were found in the water offshore in the Pacific. The report is the first to detail this fact. It goes on to say that the contamination is due to reach shore this year. And that much more sampling must be done.

http://www.pices.int/publications/presentations/PICES-2013/2013-MEQ/MEQ-1700-Smith.pdf

*************
At this site is a request for funding for more pacific research of Fukushima contamination:
http://phys.org/news/2014-01-radioactive-ocean.html

***********************

From a counter opinion site

At the following link from Deep Sea News, in the comments section, one commenter offered up some good suggestions to the scientists there.

http://deepseanews.com/2013/12/three-reasons-why-fukushima-radiation-has-nothing-to-do-with-starfish-wasting-syndrome/

*****************Quote:

Epidemiologically, are not the factors you have raised direct evidence of the impact of potassium/caesium and Calcium/Strontium ionic replacement? Four points:

1. Perhaps more so than any other sea creature, K and Ca are the critical minerals for starfish. Starfish have complex K and Ca exchange, uptake and shedding mechanisms.

2. Sr and Cs are notorious Ca and K emulators respectively.

3. A single Sr90 or Cs137 atom resident in a starfish for a few days would release enough energy to create soft tissue trauma (mutative effects inclusive). Biological response? Uptake K to attempt a heal, and more K to attempt to shed the damaged arm. Effect? More potential Cs and Sr intake. What happens when the starfish gets multiplicitous shed messages from 10-20 atomic trauma centres throughout its whole body? It melts.

3. Sr and Cs are found in trace levels in every one of the places that SWS is now occuring, and have been for a number of years now. This is as a direct consequence of the US Government nuclear policies, and its shoddy and slipshod waste management practices. Sure, Fukushima is a slow moving toxic tidal wave, and you haven’t even started to see the true effects. But the killer genie was out of the bottle years ago.

4. Go and run some tests. Get relatively pure water from the deep South Pacific, and healthy starfish from the same region. Put a sick starfish in with the healthy ones. Then try adding some radioactive isotopes at trace levels. Break the story.

***********************

The ocean ecologists are alarmed

Here is a link to a research study concerning the starfish.

http://www.eeb.ucsc.edu/pacificrockyintertidal/data-products/sea-star-wasting/

[oldhippie]

25. Sorry I asked .....

.

[RobertEarl]

28. Sure

Too much info?

The facts are startling. It is a sad situation what we are doing to the innocent creatures we share the planet with. Takes heart to give a damn, eh?

[uppityperson]

10. Not to be a himan being, only to be a humane being. eom

[YarnAddict]

12. Obviously not

People who lack compassion are dysfunctional, but they are still human.

[billh58]

17. I believe that human compassion

is relative to a particular set of circumstances. We are prone to be compassionate toward those weaker than us, but not so much with perceived bullies and aggressors. As stated elsewhere in this thread, those who prey on the weak and defenseless are anti-social and "not normal," but they remain "human."

In the end, it all goes back to knowing the difference between right and wrong, and that can be highly subjective for some.

[Aerows]

21. No, but it sure helps. n/t

[Armstead]

22. Obviously not

The world would, be a very different place if it were.

[bemildred]

26. We are socialized according to the society we live in.

It is the first thing a child must learn, how society expects it to act. That can be compassionate, or not. Boys are often taught to suppress compassion. Women are supposed to emphasize it.

This socialization may fail, if the child is not properly cared for. And people are often lousy parents.

And some people just have more natural inclinations in one direction or the other. Empathy is tied to structures in the brain, and these may vary. Those structures seem to be of recent origin, possibly developed as we became more intensely social, and a good reading of the mood of our fellows became more essential.

[2naSalit]

27. No

Human is a species, a biological determination.

Compassion is a socialization skill learned (although it can be a natural attribute or trait rather than learned but is considered one required for acceptance) from being among others of the species and within a group who recognizes this concept as a component of the "social contract" agreed upon by the members of a social group to determine how they will behave toward and among each other.

[Initech]

29. Compassion certainly isn't required to be a republican, or a member of the upper 1%.

[Yavin4]

31. See the film, "12 Years A Slave" for your answer.

And understand, that the people who remained silent and did little or nothing are just as to blame as the people who committed the atrocities.

[WillyT]

32. Yes... If You Want To Be A Humane Being...

[rrneck]

33. No and yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

Theory of mind is a theory insofar as the mind is not directly observable.[1] The presumption that others have a mind is termed a theory of mind because each human can only intuit the existence of his/her own mind through introspection, and no one has direct access to the mind of another. It is typically assumed that others have minds by analogy with one's own, and based on the reciprocal nature of social interaction, as observed in joint attention,[4] the functional use of language,[5] and understanding of others' emotions and actions.[6] Having a theory of mind allows one to attribute thoughts, desires, and intentions to others, to predict or explain their actions, and to posit their intentions. As originally defined, it enables one to understand that mental states can be the cause of—and thus be used to explain and predict—others' behavior.[1] Being able to attribute mental states to others and understanding them as causes of behavior implies, in part, that one must be able to conceive of the mind as a "generator of representations".[7][8] If a person does not have a complete theory of mind it may be a sign of cognitive or developmental impairment.

Theory of mind appears to be an innate potential ability in humans, but one requiring social and other experience over many years to bring to fruition. Different people may develop more, or less, effective theories of mind. Empathy is a related concept, meaning experiential recognition and understanding the states of mind, including beliefs, desires and particularly emotions of others, often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes". Recent neuro ethological studies of animal behaviour suggest that even rodents may exhibit ethical or empathic abilities.[9] Neo-Piagetian theories of cognitive development maintain that theory of mind is a byproduct of a broader hypercognitive ability of the human mind to register, monitor, and represent its own functioning.[10]

Research on theory of mind, in human and animal, adults and children, normally and atypically developing, has grown rapidly in the 35 years since Premack and Woodruff's paper, "Does the chimpanzee have a theory of mind?".[1] The emerging field of social neuroscience has also begun to address this debate, by imaging humans while performing tasks demanding the understanding of an intention, belief or other mental state.

An alternative account of theory of mind is given within operant psychology and provides significant empirical evidence for a functional account of both perspective taking and empathy. The most developed operant approach is founded on research on derived relational responding and is subsumed within what is called, "Relational Frame Theory". According to this view empathy and perspective taking comprise a complex set of derived relational abilities based on learning to discriminate and verbally respond to ever more complex relations between self, others, place, and time, and the transformation of function through established relations.