Would any liberal defend an Olympics in 1988 Pretoria or Johannesburg?

[dsc]

Somehow I doubt it. I think comparisons to 36 Berlin are premature and I hope they stay that way, but a comparison to 1988 Johannesburg seem pretty spot on.

[quinnox]

1. I'm glad to see someone note the ridiculousness of the hyperbole of comparing

Putin to Hitler. It is getting pretty hysterical out there.

[dsc]

2. The fact is he is similar to what Hitler was in 36 in many important ways

the question is will Putin or his successor in 2017 be similar to Hitler in 39? We don't know if he will. I suspect he won't have actual concentration camps but I do think he will have some pretty awful prisons and some pretty brutal takedowns of gays.

[quinnox]

3. Well, at least he isn't trying to conquer Europe, kill millions, and starting a World War

I hope that won't change either now or in the immediate future, I'm pretty sure it won't. But here's hoping!

[JI7]

4. that's a shitty ass standard to live by, the fact is that he couldn't do all of that now

because the world has changed.

but his own people are ones who suffer and that's what the issue is.

[quinnox]

5. Sure he could

Russia has a gigantic military. Nukes, tanks, high tech fighter jets, advanced weaponry of all kinds, etc. If Putin was a mad man, he could easily start World War III.

[JI7]

9. he could start it but he wont win

but regardless of that his own people are still suffering.

[quinnox]

11. Well, let's hope we never have to find out. Russia is still ranked as #2 in the world for military

strength. It still even tops China. Only the USA is higher ranked.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

[TheMathieu]

10. Yep.

I fear for what will happen to LGBTs once Sochi is in the rear view mirror.

We all should.

[go west young man]

19. And some pretty great gay bars.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/sochi-olympics-anti-gay-laws-mayak-bar-sochi

[Rex]

6. I am boycotting this one.

No thanks, Putin can go fuck himself.

[Exultant Democracy]

7. As a black person watching Carl Lewis and Ben Johnson kick ass in Johannesburg would have been sweet

Boycotts only hurt the athletes in the end.

[go west young man]

20. Someone who gets it.

It's about standing up not rolling over and crying foul.

[TheMathieu]

8. No one worthy of the label. nt

[Igel]

12. They wouldn't have been planned there in the first place.

Once planned, though, they'd have gone on. Provided that all member countries' athletes were permitted to play on an even footing.

The 1980 boycott was fairly controversial. The Olympics are a kind of peace movement, fraternal organizations competing in athletics instead of on the battlefield. So when the host country invaded another country, this was rather a direct challenge to the Olympics' core goals, not a late external addition to or repurposing of the Olympic goals.

Provided that gay athletes are permitted to participate in a safe environment and on an even keel, Russia's attitude may be contemptible but the charter's upheld. It's no worse than letting Qatar participate after discriminating against Jewish athletes. Both are discrimination, but if Russia doesn't actually do anything bad (or through intentional negligence allows something bad to happen) neither is "affecting the Olympics".

Worse was when the Lebanese judo team refused to practice in the same area as Israeli athletes at the last Olympics. That was overt discrimination that affected the Olympics, albeit in a minor way. It was countenanced and enabled by many, even though the majority, IIRC, condemned it.

[dsc]

13. Of course they wouldn't

heck African nations boycotted in 76 over New Zealand, whose rugby team had played in South Africa, not being kicked out of the Olympics.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

14. Not even remotely in the same category

[dsc]

15. really

I think the comparison is quite fair. The government in Russia is literally about to take the children of gays away.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. What is the acceptable level of state sponsored persecution?/nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. while i dont think apartheid and what is happening in Russia is exactly the same at all

i think the sentiments behind oppression are similar. Should we tolerate laws that openly oppress a stigmatized group? Probably not.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. I don't think that the comparison is wholly apt, but I may yet be proved wrong.

I suspect that South Africa in 1988 would have, if not barred black athletes and black spectators, made life so difficult for them as to be tantamount to it.

It has been claimed in advance that, while Russia may persecute its own gay citizens, in will not interfere with gay people attending the games. If that turns out to be true, I don't think a comparison to apartheid is wholly fair.