Condemned man's last words as he died by lethal injection: "I feel my whole body burning"

[Redfairen]

The final words of two condemned men have placed Oklahoma at the forefront of the national debate over capital punishment and the constitutionality of the drugs used in lethal injections.

On Jan. 9, Michael Lee Wilson, 38, was put to death for participating in the 1995 murder of Tulsa store clerk Richard Yost. Shortly after the drugs began to flow into Wilson's body, he expressed love to his family and the world. After a short pause he gave his final words: “I feel my whole body burning.” Seconds later he was dead.

On Jan. 23, Kenneth Eugene Hogan said he had a metallic taste in his mouth as he was executed for stabbing to death a college student in Oklahoma City.

Could the statements by Wilson and Hogan indicate a problem with the three-drug cocktail used to carry out executions in Oklahoma and other states, or violate constitutional protection against cruel or unusual punishment?

http://m.newsok.com/condemned-mans-last-words-lead-to-questions-about-lethal-injection-cocktail-in-oklahoma-u.s./article/3932043

[xfundy]

1. I will admit I'm conflicted on cases like this

On the one hand, people who kill others usually show no remorse or concern for the amount of pain they inflict or how much the victims suffer, how excruciatingly, or for how long.

On the other hand, I can't help but think we lower ourselves to their depravity if we make their final moments alive gruesome, over-long, and exquisitely painful.

Part of me says, "hell, yes, his victim suffered, he should suffer likewise." But another part says torturing these bastards does nothing to address or ameliorate the original wrong and in fact creates even more suffering, and should be handled as efficiently as turning on a garbage disposal or an electric mosquito killer.

[leftyohiolib]

5. i believe it does address it, we dont

need this murdering animal in our society or locked up in a cage for the rest of his life (which could be called cruel ) and now we don't.

[Recursion]

36. We have an (odd to me) requirement that the convicted must understand what is being done to him

and why. IIRC it came up with a prisoner who was mentally competent during the crime and trial but suffered a brain injury in prison. A court ruled he couldn't be executed because he would have to be able to understand what was being done and why.

There's surely a philosophical principle underlying that, but damned if I can find it.

[enlightenment]

154. Punitive justice.

The condemned cannot just pay for their crime - they have to suffer for it, too. Mental anguish, at the very least. If we could get away with burying people in sand and stoning them to death, we probably would do it. Or drawing and quartering - there's a nice, lingering painful death to make the aggrieved citizenry feel like they got their money's worth.

I used to think that executions should be televised with mandatory viewing, because I mistaken believed that it would convince others of why the death penalty is 100% the opposite of civilized behavior. I no longer believe that it would be a good idea - too many people would enjoy watching someone die. We're a sick society.

[MMcGuire]

131. "I will admit I'm conflicted on cases like this"

I'm not capital punishment is wrong, nothing has changed my mind about that.

[OriginalGeek]

180. Welcome to DU sir!

I agree. I'm not conflicted at all. No death penalty ever. At all. Period.

[MMcGuire]

190. Back from a welcome break

but ta anyhow

[WillowTree]

2. Maybe it's just me, but I see a significant difference between.......

.......“I feel my whole body burning” and something to the effect of "I have a metallic taste in my mouth". The second statement would seem to me to be kind of a lame argument for "cruel and unusual", particularly in consideration of the fact that Kenneth Hogan stabbed his 21 year-old victim more than 25 times in the back, neck and chest.

Not saying that I think the execution should inflict the same suffering as the crime (if we justify capital punishment at all, of course), but considering what he did to that young woman and the pain and terror she must have endured in her final moments, I'm having trouble working up bitter tears over a momentary metallic taste in the mouth. I think I'd leave that one out when arguing against lethal injection.

[leftyohiolib]

3. “I feel my whole body burning.” yea cause you're on your way to hell

[NuclearDem]

15. Well, aren't you just a tough guy.

[leftyohiolib]

51. you know what i'm not ..... a murderer

so much compassion for a killer and none for me. fucked up priorities

[malaise]

54. Of course you are

Whenever you agree that the state can kill on your behalf, you too are a murderer who wants to murder the murderer. What you rarely think about is what happens when they discover that they killed the wrong person - it happens way more often than you may care to know about -but then it was someone else's relative - not yours.

I will never ever support capital punishment.

[ann---]

57. I am with you 100000%

[leftyohiolib]

68. the 1st sentence is about the dumbest thing ive heard complete total bullshit. im no more guilty

than you are over the stuff your state does or your father or anyone else. i didnt vote for a dp. i didnt get him there he put himself there and he was not innocent. here was his roll in the murder of the clerk.
Security video footage showed Wilson smiling and helping customers at the cash register while Yost was beaten to death with a baseball bat in the back of the store.
oh btw he was married and had 2children
so spare he guilt trip baloney
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/01/09/Oklahoma-executes-convenience-store-killer/UPI-48581389319376/#ixzz2svyfEKuR

[Orrex]

97. If you celebrate the execution as you are doing...

you forefeit the moral authority to carry out that execution, even by proxy.


I have never heard a pro-death-penalty argument that didn't boil down to some kind of bullshit economic justification (e.g., "it's cheaper than housing them for 40 years&quot or some kind of bullshlt revenge fantasy (e.g., "He deserved to die because of what he did.&quot That latter bullshit argument is the one that you're making, by the way.

I understand the vengeance angle, and if someone killed one of my family members I would personally beat the murderer to death with my fists or whatever weapon I can find. However, I don't presume to have moral authority to end another's life simply because I feel that they "deserve" it.

Capital punishment is state-sanctioned, premeditated killing, and it is inconsistent with progressive thinking.

[proudretiredvet]

153. But they are not.

I understand not putting a person to death simply because you feel it should be done. But that is not what is happening here. A jury and a judge reached that conclusion after viewing all of the facts. As far as I know there has never been a legal execution because one common citizen believed that person should be put to death.
I do support capital punishment. There are some truly evil people on this earth who need to be eliminated.

[Major Nikon]

208. A judge and jury also reached the conclusion that Cameron Todd Willingham needed to be eliminated

...after viewing all the "facts".

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann

"...truly evil people on this earth who need to be eliminated"

What is this need you speak of?

Vengeance seems to be the only need fulfilled by the death penalty. It serves no benefit to society and is actually detrimental. Our justice system is also very far from perfect, so by supporting the death penalty, you are also supporting the inevitable innocent people who can and will be put to death right along with the guilty. You are also supporting a system that applies the ultimate punishment disparately depending on race and gender.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

161. +10000000000000000

[NuclearDem]

69. Who the hell is showing compassion for this guy?

Not willing to have pain inflicted on a prisoner at the hands of our government isn't sympathizing with criminals.

It's what the civilized world does. You're free to join it any time now.

[leftyohiolib]

74. this is compassion

Not willing to have pain inflicted on a prisoner at the hands of our government isn't sympathizing with criminals.
they didnt excute HIM with a basball bat.

the victim was married and had 2children

in a civalized world store clerks wouldnt be beaten to death with baseball bats, no wars no need for prisons. we dont live in a civilized world oh we like to pretend we're civilized and some people are and some arent but as a world we are not.

[NuclearDem]

77. So fucking what?

Their brutality doesn't justify brutality on our part.

And as long as we have people like you out for blood and revenge, we will never be a truly civilized world.

[leftyohiolib]

83. out for blood?, that was the murderers not me. i would rather everyone get along. like rodney king

btw what the state did wasnt brutal but i guess you dont see it that way here's brutal

A security camera captured Wilson smiling and helping customers at the cash register while Yost was beaten to death with a baseball bat in the back of the store

Hogan kicked down the door to the bathroom and Lisa ran out to the front door, yelling for help. Hogan kicked the front door shut and threatened to tell Lisa’s family about an abortion she had before she got married if she did not stop yelling. According to Hogan, Lisa then “got a wild look in her eye,” running to the kitchen and returning with a knife. Lisa allegedly attempted to stab Hogan, which he blocked but injured his hand. Lisa ran and grabbed another knife.
Hogan said he was scared Lisa was going to try and tell police that he raped her, so he chased her with the knife, stabbing her numerous times. After stabbing Lisa, Hogan arranged the room to make it look like a fight had taken place between Lisa and an intruder. He then cleaned his wounds and left the house, heading for an emergency room to treat his cuts.
At the emergency room, employees who interacted with Hogan said that he gave two different stories on how he obtained his injuries. They also indicated that Hogan appeared nervous, but well-oriented and did not appear to be under the influence of any drugs.
Around 8:15 pm, Lisa’s husband, George, returned home to find his wife’s body. Lisa had received 25 stab wounds and her throat was slit to her larynx.


your prioritites are misguided

[NuclearDem]

100. And your priorities are just plain evil.

You're justifying sinking further and further to that level of brutality.

Justice is supposed to be about isolating dangerous people and habilitating the ones we can, not bloodlust and revenge. It's why the victims of crimes don't get to hand down the sentences.

[leftyohiolib]

113. your problem is with the state not me

this criminal brought it upon himself, the state handed out the result of his actions and then carried it out. i had nothing to do with it. i just dont have the problem with it that you do nor do i believe what the state did is on the same level as what he did. the state reacted to his actions, he knew the consequences and that didnt deter him. you dont like the death penalty go bark at the state.

[NuclearDem]

114. Oh my problem is with both.

The state for carrying out such a barbaric practice, and you for your blatant bloodlust.

[leftyohiolib]

119. im done with you and your name calling -

a barbaric practice for a barbaric person if you call that bloodlust then so be it

[LanternWaste]

146. Much as your priorities seem to inflate revenge over that of justice...

Much as your priorities seem to inflate revenge over that of justice (six of one, half a dozen of the other).

(Although I imagine an imaginative and creative rationalization to illustrate otherwise will be forthcoming...)

[leftyohiolib]

150. nope im done . we feel differently you call it whatever makes you feel better.

i believe if you take a life you dont get to keep yours. i take no joy in his execution nor do i lust for blood. i wish jails were unneccessary and im not going to keep bickering over this

[Major Nikon]

219. This is a list of the civilized countries which still have the death penalty

.

[leftyohiolib]

225. that's using your definition of civilized. my definition inculdes the us

[Major Nikon]

234. You can also include Saudi Arabia, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan

China, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Pakistan, Yemen, and a few others if you like. Meanwhile the rest of the fully civilized world has done away with the death penalty.

So perhaps the US and all those other 3rd rate despotic shitholes have it right and the rest of the non-barbaric free world has it wrong. Somehow I don't think so. YMMV.

[leftyohiolib]

235. total bs -

we have snow, the north pole has snow, that doesnt make us the north pole. i believe we can have the dp and still be civilized. take your pretzel logic elsewhere

[Major Nikon]

236. Basic literacy...

civ·i·lized/ˈsɪvəˌlaɪzd/ Show Spelled [siv-uh-lahyzd]
adjective
1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.

"i believe we can have the dp and still be civilized."
"pretzel logic"

Brilliant!

[leftyohiolib]

237. is this all about you having the last word ? i think the dp is human and i dont see anything in

your definition regarding the death penalty we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
adjective
civilized
4.
easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered:

[Fantastic Anarchist]

160. So, let's have the state be the arbiter of who it murders, is that what you're saying?

Your term "compassion" is a red herring.

The state can legally commit homicide for the criminal offense of ... homicide. See the logic there?

[leftyohiolib]

191. someone needs to set punishment as long as people commit crimes

the state legally terminates someone who commits homicide. from dictionary.com homicide: the killing of one human being by another. the state is not a human being and therefore can not commit murder.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

193. Um, I hate to break it to you ...

... but someone is administering the cocktail, bud.

[leftyohiolib]

205. then call the police and have him arrested

[Fantastic Anarchist]

223. That was my point. Woosh.

[leftyohiolib]

226. so did you call the police?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

241. No.

[OriginalGeek]

181. None for you?

if it helps, I wouldn't want you to be executed either.

[leftyohiolib]

238. you wont find me killing anyone either because there is a death penalty

[OriginalGeek]

243. Well, if that's the only reason....

lol

[Gravitycollapse]

24. That's cold, even by cold standards. With just a tinge of tyrannical religiosity.

[leftyohiolib]

75. no, cold is beating a store clerk to death with a baseball bat making his wife a widow and his

kids fatherless. i'd say that's cold wouldnt u?

[LeftyMom]

45. You're a terrible person.

Go ahead and alert but you need to know that.

You're awful and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[leftyohiolib]

50. you ought to aim your hate at the murderer . as for being ashamed maybe u should look in the miror

[LeftyMom]

78. Are you drunk?

[leftyohiolib]

81. nope why ?

[LeftyMom]

82. Because I was hoping for your sake you had an excuse. nt

[leftyohiolib]

84. i dont need one. i didnt commit the crime i didnt hand or carry out the sentence

[LeftyMom]

87. Your sense of ethics matches your skills at language.

[leftyohiolib]

122. yea youre just so superior arent you

[Fantastic Anarchist]

163. Morally and ethically, yes.

[L0oniX]

108. You have equalled yourself to the person by insulting them back IMO.

[yodermon]

48. Wow you're a lefty AND a lib. fascinating. nt.

[leftyohiolib]

53. what do the names have to do with what i said. i cant be a liberal and think a murderer is

going to hell (assuming it exists )?

[cui bono]

127. Maybe they're "graded" on a curve in Ohio?

[Soundman]

60. You know it's threads like these that demonstrate to me

How democrats can continuously grasp defeat from the hands of victory and why we need to treat the far left with the same sort of weird curiosity we do the far right. I'm not necesarily pro death, but I have come to realize some are without redemption. Evil is evil and can't be cured. I'm not talking about the the guy that robbed a store and in a minute of panic made a huge mistake. I'm talking about the evil fucks that walk among us. If you feel an ounce of compassion for those sorts you should really spend some time reflecting on your values. You can't give hope to the eternally hopeless and you can't instill a respect for life into those who will never have any. Gacy comes to mind as one of the few I'm speaking of.

[leftyohiolib]

72. i know, he and his 2 buddies commit murder, i make a comment regard the execution

and I am the bad guy.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

165. No one is bringing up compassion.

As I see it, there are four moral and ethical issues here:

A) Assuming that the condemned is in fact guilty of the offense of which he/she is being executed, is it morally right for the state to murder, in a premeditated fashion, the guilty?

B) How can the state be 100% sure that everyone (not anyone) it executes is in fact guilty of the crime of which he/she is being executed (murdered with knowledge aforethought).

C) Is the death penalty applied equally to all condemned person regardless of socio-economic background, race, status, etc.?

D) Does the death penalty act as a deterrent even if A, B, and C are satisfied 100% ?

If there is a tinge of doubt with any of the above, then the logical conclusion is that the death penalty is not a just solution in our criminal justice system.

[Chan790]

183. I can answer those.

A.) No. Opinion

B.) They can't. The Troy Davis and Cameron Todd Willingham cases definitively prove that. There is little basis now, after the fact of their executions, to believe either man was anything but innocent. Fact

C.) No. It is disproportionately applied to minorities, males, the mentally-infirm, people for whom English is a non-fluent second language and those who cannot participate in their own defenses for a variety of reasons. This bias persists even in cases of nearly-identical crimes. Fact

D.) No. Execution has been repeatedly shown to have no deterrent value whatsoever. It neither reduces crime, nor dissuades the most-egregious crimes. Fact

I agree with you. There is no just execution in our legal system.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

188. Thank you.

I doubt anyone can argue all four points with absolute fact that the death penalty is just. But everyone can cite facts for each of those points that it is unjust.

I appreciate your response.

[Soundman]

218. Whatever,

You could actually answer what I wrote, or just use what I wrote to insert your carefully prepared talking point.

And you will NEVER know how many lives have been saved by the death penalty because those who haven't murdered aren't necesarily going to tell the truth or be polled. So all you really have are the words of murderers. And the manipulation of data to back up a theory.

State sanctioned murder is a slippery slope though, I will cede that.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

224. You can't analyze data for events that haven't happened.

And if we can somehow be prescient about all the dangers that face us, why live life at all?

[warrant46]

63. This would satisfy the most hard hearted among us if it was on Tee Vee

[Puzzledtraveller]

71. I hear that

actions have consequences

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Prefacing this by saying I am against the death penalty.

Last edited Mon Feb 10, 2014, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

However, when I was in the hospital the potassium they gave me to raise my levels made my body burn, and the dye injected for scans often causes a metallic taste in the mouth. I am only adding this as a comment that this will quite possibly not change the minds of those blood-thirsty eye-for-an-eye types... if they've ever been in the hospital.

[KansDem]

89. Years ago I worked as a hospital orderly in an radiology department

I transported patients to and from the department and developed x-ray pictures.

It wasn't uncommon for patients having arteriograms, angiograms, and the like to express displeasure when the die was injected and x-ray pictures taken. They often complained--loudly at times--of the "burning" they felt in their bodies.

Although the end result was advantageous for the patient--their films gave the doctors and radiologists helpful information for diagnosis and treatment--I couldn't help but feel bad about their pain and suffering.

[Ilsa]

126. I took IV medication for ten days that burned

My veins, finally infiltrating them, causing my IV to be moved about six times. This man's pain was short-lived.

[davidn3600]

6. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

[arthritisR_US]

7. As an enlightened society we need to be better than this otherwise we are just sinking into

the abyss of the murderers, jmo.

[JCMach1]

8. Medicalizing executions are NOT more humane

they just APPEAR that way...

[Th1onein]

9. We are supposed to be better than them. And yet we lower ourselves to their level.

We are just as coldly and unfeelingly killing them as they killed their victims. It's wrong. Period.

[Lost_Count]

64. I'll give you that one....

There are a myriad of ways to insure that death is instantaneous and painless, however they aren't very "pretty."

[Egalitarian Thug]

10. Barbaric and wrong, The civilized world decided this some time ago.

& R

[Fantastic Anarchist]

167. As usual, we're late to the ballgame. nt

[tritsofme]

11. Lifelong solitary confinement, zero human contact. That is my alternative to capital punishment.

I did support the DP for many years, but I think this is a better solution.

[cbdo2007]

13. You think that is less "cruel and unusal" than just killing them?

40 years trapped in a box with no human contact??? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[MillennialDem]

28. At least it does give the ability to correct a false conviction. I think solitary is also

cruel and unusual (as is the death penalty), but I do support life in prison with no parole (outside of exonerating evidence that comes to light, of course).

While I think life in prison with no parole is excessive as well, I do think the safety aspect absolutely must be weighed and some people are too dangerous to be let out of prison.

[leftyohiolib]

76. there was no false conviction here

[MillennialDem]

88. I'm not familiar with this particular case. The only time I would be for the death penalty is if

the condemned admits it publicly. DNA, signed confessions in front of police etc are too subject to possible tamper for my taste.

[leftyohiolib]

91. one confessed he other was on a store surveillance camera

Hogan eventually confessed to police about the murder on February 3, 1988. Additionally, evidence collected from the crime and evidence gathered from Hogan’s house made him a likely suspect. Hogan’s wife told police that he asked her to lie and say that he was home all day on January 28 and that he injured his hand while working in the garage.

mr wilson


Wilson worked at the store with Yost, 30, and later told police that he and three other men had planned the crime weeks in advance. The men dragged Yost to the back of the store, handcuffed him and bound his ankles, evidence showed.
A security camera captured Wilson smiling and helping customers at the cash register while Yost was beaten to death with a baseball bat in the back of the store.

[MillennialDem]

92. Still not good enough. Especially 20 something year old video evidence. If the condemned admits it

(not one of his partners) then give him the needle or noose or whatever else you want to use. If not just lock him up because I don't trust the police enough to take my life.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

168. We're not talking about just this incident.

We're talking about the death penalty in general.

[tritsofme]

59. No, that is why I think it is superior to "just killing them"

If a wrongful conviction is suffered, he can be released, otherwise it is fitting punishment. Death is the easy way out.

[Chan790]

187. Unusual is a matter of precedent.

As there are currently individuals that serve exactly that--life sentences in solitary with no possibility of parole...it would not be found unusual in any court in the US.

Is it cruel? Probably not. Not compared with execution. Further, it has the added benefit of being reversible upon exoneration. You can't unexecute someone. It is more cruel than giving them a lolly-pop and stern talking to. I'd say that degree of criminality warrants that degree of sentencing harshness.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

14. Solitary confinement is inhumane.

People can go crazy if left in such confinement for long.

[NuclearDem]

16. Solitary confinement for more than a few months is torture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. That also fails the test of cruel and unusual

As you will drive them crazy.

Life in prison, sure. Psychiatric torture, no

[tritsofme]

206. I disagree. I think it is fitting punishment.

Murder should have severe consequences.

[nadinbrzezinski]

207. An eye for an eye, will leave everybody blind

and torture is cruel and unusual punishment is against the Constitution, whether you agree or disagree is immaterial, that is the standard of law.

[tritsofme]

210. You speak as though this is settled law. It certainly is not.

Unless you have a seat on the Supreme Court that I was not aware of, what you think is no more immaterial than I.

And solitary confinement as punishment for murder, is by definition not "eye for an eye" justice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

211. So torture is legal is in the Constitution?

That is news to me.

The standard of law RIGHT NOW is that it is not. I am working with that present right now.

If you wish to live in a country where torture is legal, well then, it is not a country I wish to live in. I think I will pick up my tent and move somewhere else. Yes, it is that simple. Having seen the effects of torture, Sir you have no fracking clue what you speak off. Your vision becomes true, I am moving away from these borders.

There are a few countries that do practice it, you might want to apply to move there by the way.

[tritsofme]

212. Show me where solitary confinement has been ruled unconstitutional, thanks.

Words are not yours to define.

I have no problem giving a murderer a lifetime alone to think about what they've done. Not torture, but fitting punishment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

213. Show me where torture has been ruled constitutional

and solitary confinement is under debate right now due to the psychiatric effects.

By the way, those calling it torture are far more qualified than you.

http://ccrjustice.org/solitary-factsheet

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=161137

It is, have a good life in ignore. I will not bother with somebody with the blood lust you have shown. Have a good life, goodbye

[tritsofme]

214. Definitely one of the strangest exchanges I've encoutered in 10 years on DU.

I had no idea that real world alternatives to capital punishment had become a matter of controversy. Strange times.

[NuclearDem]

216. I don't know where you get off thinking depriving someone of mental stimulus and social contact

For years or decades is a fitting punishment. It's psychological torture.

[tritsofme]

227. Where do killers get off thinking when they murder?

Punishment should be proportional to the crime.

I did not think this was a controversial notion.

The punishment for murder should be very severe, and I felt for a long time that aside from the obvious concerns of executing an innocent man, that capital punishment is an easy way out for murderers.

They should spend the rest of their lives thinking about what they have done.

The hell of lifelong solitary confinement might be a consequence to consider before deciding taking the life of another.

[Iggo]

95. Solitary confinement with zero human contact is torture.

[cbdo2007]

12. So the complaint is that he had to feel pain for 10 seconds?

Who gives a flying fuck? That's less cruel and unusual than life imprisonment. People have been killed for their crimes since the beginning of humanity on Earth. Now it takes a whole 10 painful seconds...I can't believe anyone actually takes 10 seconds of their time thinking this is "cruel and unusual". lol

If the problem is 10 seconds of pain, just give them anesthesia and put them to sleep. Then give them the lethal injection. Problem solved.

Look, if you're against the death penalty, fine...I don't have a problem with that, if you're honest and just have a moral problem with it, we're going to agree to disagree no matter what anybody says, but to be against it for such a stupid reason as that they had to feel 10 seconds of pain, then that's just ridiculous.

[HipChick]

17. How long where his victims in pain for?

or are they not around to tell?

[NuclearDem]

19. "If the problem is 10 seconds of pain, just give them anesthesia and put them to sleep."

Do you know anything about lethal injection?

Pentobarbital is the drug used to do just that. The Dutch company that makes it now refuses to have it used in capital punishment, so supplies are running out in the US.

Which is just another damn reason we need to abolish the practice.

[JI7]

22. because we should not set our standards according to what the worst do ? and yes, it is cruel

and unusual. i often don't feel any sympathy for those who get the death penalty but i can still see it is wrong.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

169. ^^^This^^^

This point seems to be missed by a few in this thread.

[Logical]

43. You are pro DP. nt

[cbdo2007]

67. Absolutely!

Love punishing people for their crimes!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

96. See, therein lies the problem.

People who profess enjoyment over inflicting punishment are what one commonly refers to as sadists.


So you are a sadist?

[cbdo2007]

103. Lol

My enjoyment does not come from "inflicting" the punishment, rather that there is a punishment that fits the crime.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

116. So how does the death penalty fit the crime? nt

[cbdo2007]

117. death for death

sounds fair to me!

[Heywood J]

120. So what's your stance on drones that take out

funeral parties? Or when a warrant is executed on the wrong house and grandpa dies? What about for corporate negligence?

I foresee a lot of bodies on the deck if you're in charge.

[cbdo2007]

136. So because I am for killing people who have been convicted...

without a shadow of a doubt, I'm all of a sudden for killing innocent people all the time everywhere??

Lol, nice deflection. That's quite a leap you're making!

[RedCappedBandit]

166. There is no such thing as without a shadow of a doubt

Nonetheless, even if there were such a case, the precedent is thus set for other cases. Death of innocents is the inevitable result of the DP.

[cbdo2007]

173. lol

[RedCappedBandit]

178. Prove me wrong. nt

[cbdo2007]

182. LOL even more

If you don't think anyone is guilty of murder beyond a shadow of a doubt (even people who have confessed apparently?)....there's nothing anybody could say to prove you wrong.

Congrats on always being right! Life must be grand for you in your world.

[RedCappedBandit]

199. You accuse me of thinking I'm always right

when my argument is that we can never be certain that we're right.

Doesn't make much sense.

You're clearly uninformed. Confessions can be coerced or fabricated for other reasons. Humans err. We can never be certain allowing the DP will not result in the murder of innocents.

[cbdo2007]

200. lol

just lol

[RedCappedBandit]

215. Well, you've established that you can't form a response.

Good job.

[cbdo2007]

222. You can't communicate with a brick wall.

So what's the point of trying?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

132. But that just means more dead people.

It doesn't bring the murdered person back to life. So there's no real closure for the victim's family.

I don't know why we even pretend to try that the death penalty provides closure when there's nothing that can really bring closure in that situation.

[cbdo2007]

138. You lost me....

Life imprisonment and the death penalty are the same thing. Your argument seems to be more of one you argue before the murder than after it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

140. Umm...no, life imprisonment and the death penalty are *not* the same thing.

One involves actively and prematurely ending the life of a human being already in custody. The other involves keeping a person in custody throughout the course of his natural life.

How are those the same thing?

[cbdo2007]

142. One is death by force, one is death by time. Both are death.

People who are anti-death penalty somehow think they are above "causing death". Like you have evolved to the point that you respect life so much that you could never imagine prematurly ending someone's life for any reason. lol

Fact of the matter is that there are a large number of murder cases that are irrefutable and the person shouldn't be allowed a chance at Earthly retribution. They know the consequences going in, and they decide they are willing to take that chance. Even their family has cut off contact and dreads the slight chance they are released because they are scared of them and know they might show up at their door someday. In these cases, for everyone involved, I think it is absolutely appropriate to speed up their time of death.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

144. The state has no business in speeding up the death of anyone not an imminent threat to life.

I get life imprisonment. I understand that there are some people who are a danger to public society and shouldn't be allowed to be free.

But I never, ever will get the death penalty. They are locked up. They will never get the opportunity to go out in public as free individuals as long as they live. We are already protected.

So why do we feel we need to then kill them, to send the message that killing is wrong? It's lunacy.

Lol.

[cbdo2007]

147. Didn't I call this precisely wheN I posted my original response to the OP....

I said we would just agree to disagree about the death penalty as a whole, I was open from the get go....

but we will always have the death penalty in our society. It will never go away in our lifetimes in the USA....so back to the point of the OP, let's say the Colorado theater shooter gets the death penalty and he has to experience 10 seconds of pain before he actually dies....is this 10 seconds something we should get worked up about or just let it be? I'm ok with 10 seconds of pain for him.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

148. Thankfully it's gone away in several states recently.

And in almost all other developed countries, spare a few. You know, Iran, China, North Korea and the like.

As for your question, no I would not be okay with 10 seconds for James Holmes. Nor am I okay with a quick, painless death for him either.

[cbdo2007]

149. Right....well hypothetically I'm not ok with him killing all those people.

This seems to be the problem with DU nowadays, is you can't just have a discussion with someone about a concrete topic, because all they want to do is argue hypotheticals on a handful of black and white issues.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

158. Are you saying I'm okay with James Holmes killing those people?

What exactly are you saying?

You're the one who brought in the hypothetical about Holmes, not me.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

175. Nothing but death is absolute (and ironically, this statement)

But we live in a nuanced world where, I'm afraid, we sometimes have to deal with hypotheticals to be able make reasonable decisions.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

171. So you live in Biblical Times.

Got it.

[Logical]

118. LOL, bet you are a great person. Look up the innocence project and let me....

know if you want me to explain it to you.

Disgusting.

[cbdo2007]

139. Yep, you are absolutely right....everyone convicted of murder is innocent.

Good luck with that viewpoint!! lol, let's just let all the criminals back out on the streets and have a thousand appeals each.

[Logical]

151. You are too clueless on this topic to have an intelligent.....

Discussion with.
Look at the countries who support the death penalty, I imagine you embrace a lot of their traits.

[cbdo2007]

156. Yep, they follow our liberal, democratic ideals very closely.

You are very observant oh wise one! lol

[Logical]

204. Really, which countries? We can compare! n-t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

186. Some are.

Can you live with that?

[jeff47]

203. So it's OK to occasionally execute innocent people then?

Hey, we got it right most of the time!! That's good enough to keep killing people!!

[treestar]

61. If you are for it, it should still be done humanely

How much pain is OK with you? Maybe there is not enough? Maybe we could go back to hanging, drawing and quartering.

They are being punished with death - that isn't bad enough? Some pain in the process is part of the desired punishment?

[cbdo2007]

66. 10 seconds of pain is plenty humane.

Yet still there are people here complaining because someone who killed someone else with utter disregard to their pain, and the pain they've inflicted on the friends and family of the person they killed. 10 seconds....yep, plenty worth it. We've got much bigger fish to fry in the country than worrying about 10 seconds of pain for someone who doesn't care about anyone else's pain.

[treestar]

70. If the point is to get revenge on them for the killing they did

why shouldn't the means of death be much worse? Why is 10 seconds enough?

[cbdo2007]

93. Has nothing to do with revenge, has to do with punishment.

Whatever method gets the job done is fine with me - hanging, guillotine, poison, electric chair, whatever.

It's ridiculous to put time frames on it and say "well, the pain must last between 10 seconds to 4 minutes, but shall not exceed 4 minutes and 1 second."

Sorry but all solutions are not black and white.

[treestar]

109. It should be equal though

not happenstance. The general idea seems to be to eliminate the suffering, even though the person is a murderer. That's just how society has rolled. Or we'd still do hanging.

[Logical]

152. All people like you want revenge. Nothing else! nt

[Rex]

159. Who gives a fuck? Jesus would.

You don't give a fuck, your right.

[cbdo2007]

174. Oh Lord, we're bringing Jesus into the discussion....on DU?!?! lol

[backscatter712]

18. I'm against the death penalty, but if it had to be done, call Anton Chigurh.

Say what you will about the gruesomeness of using a cattle gun, but at least it's quick.

[Gravitycollapse]

27. The movie dramatizes the killing power of cattle guns. It often doesn't kill the animal.

It merely knocks it unconscious (or damages parts of the brain that control voluntary movement). So, if you're idea of a more efficient form of killing human beings is shooting a bolt into their brain, you should probably consider review and revision.

[backscatter712]

239. I suppose you'd better bleed the convict out quick...

...and make sure he's skinned and the good cuts of meat are taken before he comes to.

(I know, I'm taking the short bus to Hell for this!)

[PlanetaryOrbit]

20. Why couldn't an overdose of anesthesia be used as the execution method?

Wouldn't that be virtually painless and still achieve the same end?

[NuclearDem]

21. Some states do that.

But it's getting harder to come by the anesthetics. Some are just in short supply, and the company that makes pentobarbital actually refuses to allow it to be used in executions.

[Sheepshank]

155. hospitals are full of anesthetics...heck, the dentist has them.

I don't understand the "in short supply" talk? Is there only one available in the whole wide world and the country that makes has stopped providing them?

[BlueStreak]

41. WHy is this so hard? When animals are euthanized

the generally do it is two steps. The first step is a standard anesthetic, which shouldn't have any pain. We do thousands of operations every day and the patients never say "I feel my whole body burning" before they are knocked out.

The second stage, after the animal is unconscious is to do an overdoes that will stop the heart.

If we can do that for our animals, surely we can do that for state executions.

[NuclearDem]

65. That's exactly how lethal injection is supposed to be carried out.

An anesthetic to put them unconscious, a paralytic agent, and then potassium chloride to stop the heart.

[BlueStreak]

98. Why do we keep hearing about problems with this?

You don't need exotic drugs or procedures to do this humanely.

How many people are put unconscious every single day in hospitals all across the country without any of them saying "I felt like every part of my body was burning?"

I believe it boils down to a bunch of sick MFers who really want to put at least a little torture into the mix.

[NuclearDem]

99. There's no universal drug cocktail. Different states do it differently.

The anesthetics are also getting harder to come by. The Dutch manufacturer of pentobarbital now refuses to sell its product to states that may use it for lethal injection.

And since there is no universal system in place, different states experiment with different drugs. And in some cases it leads to completely unnecessary anguish inflicted on the prisoner.

[BlueStreak]

110. That's an excuse, not an answer

Last edited Tue Feb 11, 2014, 12:30 AM - Edit history (1)

There are 20,000,000 surgeries using general anesthesia in the US every year.

For the ~40 murders performed every year by Texas and the other outlaw states, why can't we at least require they hire a professional anesthesiologist to make sure the person to be executed is unconscious. We actually know how to make people unconscious.

Goddamned barbarians.

[Heywood J]

121. "Do no harm."

That's usually the reason professionals aren't involved.

[BlueStreak]

125. What am I missing here?

How is it we can successfully put 55,000 people under every single day in this country, but we can't seem to do that reliably for 40 state executions each year?

Putting the condemned under general anesthetic and then shooting him in the head would be more humane than what we are doing today.

==

On edit, Upon thinking more about your comment, I think you are suggesting that no medical doctor could participate in a state killing because of the ethical requirements of that profession. It still seems that there must be a way to accomplish this. The state could make it legal for a paramedic executioner to apply the same general anesthetic that a proper anesthesiologist would use. They are already administering IV drugs. Why not use the general anesthetic that is successfully used 55,000 times a day in this country?

[Heywood J]

129. There are ways that require no medical professional to breach ethics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_asphyxiation#Capital_punishment

[BlueStreak]

134. I am sorry. I am still not getting it.

Snuffing a person by starving them for oxygen doesn't seem humane at all. My question is why would we not simply administer a general anesthetic, as we do 50,000 times a day in hospitals is every part of this country? Once the condemned is under general anesthetic, any method of killing the patient is equally humane, it seems to me. Dagger to the heart? Candlestick to the noggin? What difference does it make once the patient is sedated.

Regarding ethics, it seems to me the anesthesiologist could be involved to administer the general anesthetic and to certify that the patient is unconscious, and then leave the room while the state does the deed. That is probably a borderline case ethically. But what are the ethics of allowing the state to torture people as they are killing them?

Why is this so hard?

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. Because no medical professional with ethics would do that.

This includes paramedics. For the record, states use medics in the death chamber. For some odd reason these guys have a hell of a time working outside the prison system. I know I would not want that person as a partner.

What I think you are wrestling with is the idea that at it's heart the death penalty is primitive and really unnecessary. In my view it's time this country abandons it en-toto. Eye for an eye makes everybody blind

[BlueStreak]

162. Well, OK. Why can't the medics use the same anesthetic that is used in hospitals?

Why can't the procedure begin with a reliable general anesthetic? Why does any state need to look for exotic drugs. We knock patients out 50,000 times a day and I bet none of them ever mentions that their body felt like it was on fire. You just go to sleep.

[nadinbrzezinski]

179. Becuase it is not in their scope of practice

medics still work under the license of the medical director for the local county. The medical director approves what drugs medics can give in the field. The field, strangely I know, includes the death chamber. So if medics give something NOT in the approved list, they are actually freelancing. Another reason to reject that medic as a partner. I do not want a freelancer working by my side.

The few states where the medics do this, they are, by strange quirk of the law NOT working for the medical director at that moment. Some lawyers have even argiued they are practicing medicine without a license. I happen to agree by the way. Then there is the do no harm in the code of ethics that does transfer to medics.

The big exception to this are FEDERAL jails, where medics are in FEDERAL land, and not working under the license of the local EMS medical director. I do notice though that you do not want to face this little fact, the death penalty is primitive and at this point really not needed, not just on ethical grounds. It is quite cheaper to try these guys (mostly guys) where there is no death penalty involved. Death penalty cases average two million. It is also cheaper to keep them in prison than in the death row. So just on those grounds, for fiscal conservatives it should be a no brainer.

So really, the only reason we still have it is revenge. A mature legal system (which the American legal system mostly is not) is not into revenge.

[BlueStreak]

194. I agree any execution is a barbaric way for any society tro behave. I'm agin it. But

if we are going to do it, why do we have so much trouble with doing it in a humane way? Why to the executioners claim that it is difficult to get drugs that would be humane when we do that 50,000 times every day in hospitals?

I know you tried to give me a technical answer to that question, and I appreciate that. But it sounds like hogwash to me (the system's hogwash, not yours). If we actually wanted to do it humanely, we could begin this afternoon. There is no chemical reason or product availability reason why we cannot do that, as far as I can see. Only political reasons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

195. Because the company that produces fenobarbital is NOT selling it to the Prison system

it is that simple. They cannot get the drugs on the open market. The providers stopped selling it to the states where we still practice this on ethical grounds. So they are reduced to essentially experimenting with human beings trying to find replacements.

If we are to have it, my view, move it out of the death chamber, into the open, and have open executions. Chose your poison, and televise them. The reason why it moved behind the walls is simple. In order to preserve it, they had to hide it. The support for it was sinking in the 1920s when state after state moved it behind prison walls, due to a few botched horrific executions.

I will not be too shocked if the next step is to remove witnesses from death chambers. These reports are not helping the cause.

[Heywood J]

246. It has to do with what triggers the human body to breathe.

Technically speaking, humans have no sensors for lack of oxygen (only a buildup of CO2), so the presence of an inert gas doesn't cause any breathing disturbances. It happens hundreds of times a year in industrial accidents, where people enter confined spaces or toxic atmospheres without respirators and just die without knowing what's happening.

It also happens, albeit much slower, when planes don't pressurize after taking off. Helios Airways flight 522 was a solid example of that. Nobody realized what was happening.

[davidn3600]

42. Many drug companies refuse to sell the drugs to the prisons

Many drug companies say they dont want their products being used to kill people. They say it violates their code of ethics.

Also finding medical professionals willing to administer such drugs is also difficult to find and expensive to pay for.

[Gravitycollapse]

23. Having a metallic or funny taste in your mouth after IV injection is common.

I've experienced it several times from various drugs.

[Recursion]

25. I don't support capital punishment, but I think the Soviet way was better

Shoot them with a large-caliber pistol in the back of the head. Stop pretending this is a medical procedure.

Or, if you must, go back to the firing squad. To my knowledge there's never been a botched execution with either method.

[Gravitycollapse]

29. Seriously? You've never heard of a botched execution by firing squad?

Literally all you had to do before making such a ridiculous claim was google it. Have you never heard of executioners finding victims alive after being fired upon and then shooting them in the back of the head with their service pistols?

The immediate effectiveness of a firing squad depends on the ability of the rifle cartridge being used to destroy the central nervous system, the heart or induce hydrostatic shock. If you don't hit the head or the heart, or very close to it, the victim can take minutes or even hours to die.

[Recursion]

31. I've only heard of that for mass executions

Not in single executions. I can't find one on google. Got a pointer?

But, anyways, that's why I said the Soviet strategy was the "best".

[MillennialDem]

34. Yep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Wilkerson

[Recursion]

37. Thanks. Soviet method it is. (nt)

[MillennialDem]

30. Sure is possible to survive firing squad. Unlikely but possible. Many WW2 videos show

bullet to the back of the head after firing squad. Also, a small number of holocaust survivors did survive firing squads as well, including by playing dead.

If you're going to do it, go all the way and use a guillotine. It's about as fast as possible and failure proof.

[Recursion]

32. Yes, it happens with mass executions

But we don't do mass executions here. 12 rifles, 11 of them loaded, at one person is pretty hard to mess up.

[MillennialDem]

35. Still possible. And doesn't address my question of why not use a guillotine at that point?

[Recursion]

38. That's another idea

If we're going to do capital punishment, I don't like this sanitized pseudo-medical attempt to avoid admitting what we're actually doing.

Though I think there's some concern that the brain remains conscious for "too long" after the decapitation.

[MillennialDem]

39. Brain can remain conscious for even longer with firing squad / soviet method.

[Gravitycollapse]

40. The electric chair is the most efficient way of rendering brain death.

Takes just a fraction of a second to completely short circuit the nervous system and then only a little bit longer to guarantee it never turns back on again.

The problem is no method of execution is without concern.

[Recursion]

44. Looking at this from a Kohlberg standpoint...

... I still have to go with the pistol to the back of the head (even if it fails, remediation should be pretty quick). It also has the larger and to me important virtue of not in any way attempting to hide what the state is actually doing.

I also wouldn't do them in the middle of the night, though I don't think publicizing/televising them is at all a good idea.

[Gravitycollapse]

46. I think the answer to all of this is to realize the disgusting nature of capital punishment.

And to stop using it.

[Recursion]

47. I'm totally with you there

I think it has absolutely no place in civilian criminal procedure. But I worry the "sanitized" way we try to do it both makes it less repugnant and so less easy to end (yes, I know, that's ultimately the same as the Bolshevik argument) while inadvertently causing more of the suffering the sanitizing was supposed to prevent.

[Heywood J]

123. In practice, however, it's a human barbeque.

If you like, here's something you may find interesting:
www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/broadband/tx/executions/thoughts/
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/tvandradioblog/2008/jan/16/lastnightstvhorizonhowto
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506383/How-Michael-Portillo-left-seconds-death-investigated-science-killing.html

He voted for the death penalty in the 1980s. Then he voted against it in the 1990s - but not because of a fundamental change of view. There was a spate of miscarriages of justice, and he doesn't want to see innocent people being killed. In principle, he's in favour, but would like to see it done more humanely.

Another is offered by Burl Cain, who recounts how he always holds the condemned man's hand and asks him if he has any final, private words.

The warden tells Portillo: "I always hope to hear someone ask for forgiveness and say they want Jesus Christ to reach out and take them through the gates of Heaven.

"One man said he did indeed have some last words. I put my ear close to his mouth and he whispered: Tell my lawyer he's fired.'"

It's on Youtube as well.

[backscatter712]

240. As long as the sponge is wet...

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. So was hanging and the guillotine.

The electric chair, the gas chamber, lethal injection? Not so much. The American way: better death through technology.

[hrmjustin]

26. The death penalty is wrong and should be abolished.

[flvegan]

33. So? That's how revenge works out sometimes. Revenge is all the death penalty is.

The fulfillment of egos for idiots that don't know what punishment is. All they know is that in their little brain, someone is dead. And they cheer it, good for them! Nothing else matters.

It's almost too stupid for words, but yet, here I am.

[ladjf]

52. Capital punishment is barbaric and should be abolished. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

55. We are a sick society

That's all.

[ann---]

58. Yes, we are

states that still allow the death penalty are no better than the third-world countries they hate.

[ann---]

56. The death penalty is

barbaric - period. Only savage countries still allow it.

[Tom Ripley]

62. I am anti-death penalty, but I don't put much stock in the words of murderers

It's not as if they are morally or ethically incapable of lying

[HappyMe]

73. Yup.

I wonder any time one of these stories comes out why exactly should I give a damn what the murderer's last words are.

[seveneyes]

79. Could stabbing to death a college student in Oklahoma City

be considered a cruel or unusual act by a human?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

192. Yes, but I hope you're not saying that you want us to be like them. n/t

[seveneyes]

196. Not at all

In fact, I am very much against the DP. Killers of innocent people should be locked away for life, so they can never do it again.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

198. Okay, I misunderstood you.

I agree with you.

[leftyohiolib]

80. he's what these charmers did

Hogan said he was scared Lisa was going to try and tell police that he raped her, so he chased her with the knife, stabbing her numerous times. After stabbing Lisa, Hogan arranged the room to make it look like a fight had taken place between Lisa and an intruder. He then cleaned his wounds and left the house, heading for an emergency room to treat his cuts.
At the emergency room, employees who interacted with Hogan said that he gave two different stories on how he obtained his injuries. They also indicated that Hogan appeared nervous, but well-oriented and did not appear to be under the influence of any drugs.
Around 8:15 pm, Lisa’s husband, George, returned home to find his wife’s body. Lisa had received 25 stab wounds and her throat was slit to her larynx.

mr wilson
A security camera captured Wilson smiling and helping customers at the cash register while Yost was beaten to death with a baseball bat in the back of the store

[Warpy]

85. If primitive states absolutely must kill people

I don't know why they don't put them under with a benzodiazepine like Valium or Versed. I've had those and Valium especially made me so goofy high that if somebody had poured gasoline on me and lit a match, I'd have giggled at them. Versed just knocked me out for a few minutes.

There are drugs out there other than bathtub pentothal that will do the job of putting them so far under they won't care what happens next.

That's if primitive states lust for revenge so strongly they must murder people.

[dembotoz]

90. i was under the impression that we were supposed to demonstrate a higher level of humanity than

those being executed

guess i was wrong

[Iggo]

94. I have a feeling it's working exactly as intended.

[Elmergantry]

101. I think the executed convict got the better end of the deal

compared to his victim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. I got the feeling you do not understand

the Constitutional prohibition against unusual or cruel punishment.

[Iggo]

106. I think you're missing the point.

[Rex]

102. Sounds like he was reporting on the feeling of dying right

before the brain died. The 'fire' sensation was probably his body dying before the brain could.

[Adsos Letter]

128. Some kind of system-wide neuropathy?

I have neuropathy in my feet from diabetes. Burns like hell at times.

[Rex]

157. Yes kinda. The brain was alive long enough to feel the body dying all at once.

He lived long enough to report the sensation. For the people saying he probably made it up, why? He had nothing to gain or lose by saying what he felt in the last seconds of his life.

[dembotoz]

104. i am amused to see the blood lust along with the little ads to buy valentine hearts

its rather sad actually

[Iggo]

112. Sweet, right?

[dembotoz]

141. yeah sweet

so to punish someone for murder

we commit murder

[L0oniX]

107. Wouldn't a heroin over dose be more humane? For that matter...

what do they use for cats and dogs that makes it humane for them?

[Iggo]

111. Yes it would.

But it's not enough for the punishment fetishists to just have them killed. They also gotta suffer.

[L0oniX]

115. Either that or drug corps are pushing for expensive execution chems.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

133. Or here's a better idea:

Just get rid of the whole bloody, useless institution all together.

It's not a deterrent, it doesn't bring true closure, and executing those already incarcerated doesn't protect society. So what is it good for?

[L0oniX]

137. I am against capital punishment.

[pintobean]

124. It still seems better than the chair or the gas chamber.

But, if they're going to do this, they need to find something completely painless.

[EvilAL]

130. Good riddance..

[Fantastic Anarchist]

197. How quaint. n/t

[EvilAL]

245. Indeed. n/t

[NCTraveler]

135. State sanctioned murder is cruel and unusual punishment.

Who gives a shit about the burning or taste in mouth. Seriously. The whole focus needs to be on the states authority to kill. These arguments are crap. So, if the state finds a way to do it with no pain or discomfort, it is ok. The argument they are making is not what it should be. Hey assholes, stop arguing that it is the method that is wrong when it is simply the act itself that is wrong. Killing someone is cruel and unusual punishment, the method used is just a part of what should already be an unacceptable process.

[FarCenter]

143. Why would we believe criminals who are being executed?

[RedCappedBandit]

164. Support the death penalty and you support killing innocents.

When you give the state the power of execution, innocent people can and will fall into the crosshairs. This is the inevitable result of people's support of such policies.

[HoustonDave]

170. It isn't punishment, it's self protection

No matter what, there is only ONE way ever found throughout history of separating the worst criminals from society so they can never, ever, commit more crimes. Life in prison can be escaped (and is, with fairly great regularity!) but no executed criminal has ever come back and committed more crimes. DP isn't punishment and sure isn't rehabilitation (except in the sense that the executee is terminally reformed.) I don't favor it when there is seriously disputable evidence like sole witnesses, but when someone indisputably committed a heinous crime such as described here...no matter what method is used, it will not last as long as it probably did for the victim and any momentary burning sensation, metallic taste, or pain, is just part of the process.

[nadinbrzezinski]

185. So what happens when we innevitably

and we have, execute an innocent person? Just the cost of doing business? Right?

Also out of a supermax lifers only leave when they are dead from natural causes. It is also cheaper. And if by mistake they were wrongfully convicted, they can still leave alive.

[kestrel91316]

172. Lethal injection can be done humanely. We euthanize animals humanely all the time.

Properly placed IV catheter.

IV anesthetic so the patient is UNCONSCIOUS.

IV injection of overdose of pentobarbital plus whatever else they want to add to increase the kick/stop the heart.

Finis. No suffering.

[nadinbrzezinski]

189. The problem is they are not getting Fenobarbital

the companies are refusing to sell it on ethical grounds. I happen to agree.

[Sunlei]

176. pentobarbital shouldn't do that, should not need any other drugs. enough pento alone will kill

Though I am totally against the death penality.

Maybe they got sold the animal euthanasia 'pink stuff' without the pink warning color. Ask a Vet, they know they have to inject very slow or else there is a reaction.

The USA has painted themselves in a corner with human quality drugs, they exclude buys from most other countries.

Why don't they just hand the man an overdose of heroin and let him self-suicide? or drain out all his blood in a bucket and he will fall asleep.

[backscatter712]

242. With this execution, they didn't use pentobarbitol.

The state ran out, and the manufacturer refused to sell them more for the purpose of executions.

So they tried a different drug cocktail, which didn't work very well.

[gopiscrap]

177. Not good, I have always been against the death penalty

cases like this just reinforce it.

[timweidman]

184. have no sympathy for this type of murder

A little pain is nothing considering the pain they have caused. I do however think the process is flawed and has too much potential for an innocent person to be condemned. Only the most heinous crimes should be dp cases. And both of these particuler cases fit.

[RedstDem]

201. why not go old school

and just shoot em up with heroin?

[PeteSelman]

202. I'm sorry but I don't really care.

Fuck these guys. Seriously. Bring back the headsman if everyone is so concerned about these drugs. They're only around because people complained about other methods. A sharp axe is quick and painless as are a bullet to the back of the head or hanging if done right. I'll bet the families of the victims don't care if they felt pain. Probably think they should have felt more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

209. Cruel and Unusual punishment is against the US Constitution

and not all families want an execution. I bet you did not know that.

Moreover, the axe is not painless. It is one of the most brutal methods of execution around. But I guess you would not mind drawn and quartered either.

It is time, not that I expect this country to do it, to grow up. Life in prison is also cheaper, and by the way, if we do make a mistake as a society, and we have. there is a chance for the falsely convicted to walk out. We have actually executed people who were NOT guilty, is that the cost of doing business? Sick.

[PeteSelman]

228. A few points of contention.

I don't think a quick, clean execution is cruel and/or unusual.

The death penalty is written right into the constitution. It's the only criminal punishment in there.

A good sharp axe and a clean severing is not in any way similar to drawing and quartering someone. That's ridiculous. Done properly, you feel nothing.

Of course I know some people do not want the perps executed. Their wishes should also be considered. Why would you think I didn't know that?

Capital punishment is only more expensive because of the endless appeals process that patently guilty people take advantage of. Now, that isn't to say I'm against appeals if there is any chance a person may not be guilty. If it isn't clearly cut and dried that a person committed the murder/violent rape/treason or whatever the capital charge is (I know violent rape isn't a capital offense but it should be) then life in prison is fine until the guilt or innocence can be determined matter of factly.

In no doubt about it cases such as with the Boston bomber, the asshole that shot up the movie theater last year, crimes caught on video and the like, they should just take you out back and hang you after sentencing. That's fair to society.

I also think it's time to grow up and realize that there are some crimes so heinous that anything short of death is an injustice. Where's the justice for the civilian woman that works in a prison and is raped and murdered by someone already doing life? You going to add another life sentence? So what, there's no punishment at all in a case like that. If what needed to be done was done originally, something like that can never[\i] happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

230. In this thinking the US is alone among advanced ecnomies

I also think it's time to grow up and realize that there are some crimes so heinous that anything short of death is an injustice. Where's the justice for the civilian woman that works in a prison and is raped and murdered by someone already doing life? You going to add another life sentence? So what, there's no punishment at all in a case like that. If what needed to be done was done originally, something like that can never happen.

We are in extremely good company, with places like China. Be proud. USA, USA, USA.

By the way, I noticed you avoided we have executed innocent people. As I thought, that is just the cost of doing business. We live in a very sick society.

[PeteSelman]

244. No I didn't.

I was very clear on who should be executed and under which circumstances.

I'm sorry but it's simply ridiculous to equate us to China or Iran because we have this one thing in common. And though we have mistakenly put innocent people to death before, that doesn't mean we shouldn't execute the absolutely guilty.

I don't see why the one should equate to the other in either circumstance.

[NuclearDem]

217. That's why the victims of crimes aren't handing down the verdicts.

We're supposed to have an impartial system.

[PeteSelman]

220. I have no problem with an impartial jury system.

I don't think I indicated otherwise.

I do think the victim's people should be considered when the sentence is handed down. It often is.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

221. You know those "families of the victims" you claim to care so much about?

Once the murderer is executed, guess what?

Their loved one is still dead.

It could be the most gruesome, disgusting, horrifically painful execution ever, and guess what?

Their loved one is still dead.

And they know it. And they know nothing will ever take away that pain. Not a needle. Not a noose. Not a bullet or a sharp axe.

There are some things in life that you will simple never, ever get over, and the untimely death of a loved one is one of those things.

So let's cut the crap and stop pretending that offering up the life of the perpetrator is in any way an act of "justice" or a way to get "closure" for the victim's family. Because clearly it's not.

It's an exercise in futility and bloodlust.

[PeteSelman]

229. No one ever said it would bring a person back.

But it can make you feel a little better. And moreover it's justice for society. Some people just need to go. Many of these assholes go on the be prison predators, making people's lives miserable to the end of their days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

231. You do know that many families

have been interviewed not just after executions, years later, and they have told researchers that the closure they expected never came? It is a false promise.

And it is an expensive exercise to boot.

Now I have wasted enough time with you too. Welcome to my ignore list. I cannot stand this ignorant bloodlust.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

232. How is it justice for society?

What is accomplished by the death penalty that cannot be accomplished with life imprisonment?

And how does making someone "feel a little bit better" justify the mortgaging of a state's ethics and morals when it sanctions the killing of someone who is not an imminent threat to anyone?

[magical thyme]

233. "You could hear this torture this man's going through and it just really sticks with you."

The gruesome crime still haunts retired Tulsa police detective Mike Huff.

"This is one you can't forget," said Huff. "You could hear this torture this man's going through and it just really sticks with you."

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/michael-lee-wilson-convicted-of-1995-murder-of-richard-yost-in-tulsa-set-to-die-thursday

Richard Yost was 30 years old, married with 2 small children. The 4 of them handcuffed him, dragged him into the back, and beat him 54 times with an aluminum baseball bat.

The video didn't show the crime, but you could hear "the pinging of the bat and the screaming."

Yost begged for mercy. Wilson knew Yost; they were co-workers.

Wilson put on his uniform and served customers to prevent suspician, while his co-worker Richard Yost lay dying in the cooler in a pool of his blood and milk.

In his apology, Wilson claimed he was young and "foolish." Foolish? Really? Like a "foolish prank?"

Sorry, I have no pity for his few seconds of a burning sensation.