I am a white woman.

[ScreamingMeemie]

I would never take it upon myself to tell another human being what they should or should not be offended by.

I should not tell an American Indian that they should not be offended by a sports mascot.

and I sure as hell should not tell an African American that:

Because I've never heard of it...
Because I like to eat it myself...
Because that's so 1930s/1940s...(it isn't by the way. It's alive and well on the T-shirt of one of my son's teammates)
Because it's "time to move on..."

they should not be offended by a chicken and watermelon lunch being used to celebrate Black History month.

I grew up in the North. My grandfather was as racist as they come, and I knew it my entire childhood. On his dresser? A black doll in a crocheted watermelon dress that my mother made him as a gift from me when I was 5 because I once asked him what a porch monkey was... Of course he didn't tell me because that wouldn't be right, and he knew it was wrong.

When he passed away in 2001, my grandmother (who thought it was okay to call people "coloreds" until I kept yelling at her for it...now it's simply "they&quot wanted to give me that horrendous little doll to "remember him by..." Seriously.

I am white, and I am offended by the use of watermelon and fried chicken to celebrate Black History month. That was, and remains, a forced stereotype depicting black people as lazy and lying around in the fields. To try and make that honorable is sick, especially in the face of so many telling us that it isn't.

It scares the hell out of me that people cannot (or choose not to) see that.

This exhibit is now open to everyone:

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Looks like it's open to the public now:

The new Jim Crow Museum is now open and is FREE to the public.

I am pleased to see this development. Many will benefit from seeing their exhibits.

Thank you for posting this...

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. Edited. Thanks CP.

[FrodosPet]

2. It sucks how beauty is turned ugly

Fried chicken and watermelon are two of the greatest, most delicious foods on this planet.

But the fact that such wonderful things are used by racists as an attack, rather than simply enjoyed, is another symptom of humanity's self loathing.

Yes, SELF-loathing.

I am convinced that most bigots hate themselves more than anything else. But that makes them feel bad, so they turn that venom outward. This, alas, is the only way for them to cope.

And because of this, something beautiful is turned into an ugly message.

[Cha]

18. Exactly, Frodo's..

Fuck stupid racists everywhere. They have a really huge problem.. and that is theirselves.

[Aerows]

21. Get out of my way when they are serving collard greens

I'll be the first in line because I love them.

[IrishAyes]

27. What's that expression? You won the internet today. Bravo!

[rrneck]

3. Speaking as a son of the south...

I'm offended by assholes, I don't care what terminology they use.

And the only proper way to eat chicken is fried.

[snooper2]

6. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that-

[rrneck]

9. Snoop, you know I respect you and all

but I got to have my way on this. Probably because I haven't had a decent fried chicken leg in about ten years. Yeah, I'm jonesin'. And don't even get me started on country ham.

[Cha]

19. Marinated in a beer bbq

sauce.

thanks for the pic, snoop, brings back good times!

[KittyWampus]

4. But you will attempt to tell other people what they should not talk about.

And to shut off conversations that attempt to bring in more context.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. No, I am telling you that you should not tell someone what is offensive to them when it affects them

and not you. There's a difference. Should we allow racists stereotypes on DU to make you happy? I don't think so. Sorry.

[KittyWampus]

7. Quote from Adrien Miller who wrote "Soul Food"

“More of us need to shed soul food’s negative associations,” Miller contends, “and learn its history, in order to appreciate it.”

I am interested in going beyond the repetition of ignorant, hateful stereotypes.

There is such a thing as soul food. It's interesting. It has a history.

I learned a whole bunch reading Mr. Miller's book. You could too.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. I am going to go with the guys I know. MrScorpio, M0rpheus, and others...

instead of, what was it you accused me of doing? Oh yes, "scouring the Internet" for words to back up your efforts to tell people that they cannot find something offensive. It is not my place to ever tell anyone how to feel. It shouldn't be anyone's place. I hope you understand that some day. You're not helping your position here.

On edit: I encourage you to spend some time here: http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/

[KittyWampus]

10. I'm not telling anyone how to feel. I am saying that Soul Food is well worthy of discussion.

It's an honorable topic.

Frankly, you and some others have put words in my mouth that I never uttered.

and it says more about you than me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. I think we are done here.

As far as words in mouths, look at your first post to me in this thread.

[M0rpheus]

29. Why would you choose today?

You piggybacked your OP on Mr. Scorpio's post, which was already a bit heated on the issue and chose to make the whole thing about fried chicken as a contribution to soul food.

Any other day, that topic minus a few problematic sentences would have been just fine. Today, it's dismissive and tone deaf. While that may not have been your intent (I have lots of doubt, there), that's what it was. The fact that you can't even acknowledge the offense in light of the heat you're getting speaks volumes to me.

[Major Nikon]

34. I think there's room for both perspectives

Some of these things are unquestionably used in horrible racist ways and people need to understand that. However, there's another thing to consider. People associate pizza with Italians. People associate hamburgers and hotdogs with Germans. People associate tortillas with South America. Certain breads, cheeses, and wines are associated with the French. Food is a huge part of culture and people also need to understand that much of what we consider American culture was actually given to us from West and South Africa via slave immigrants or other black immigrants, or were developed in America by black citizens. Fried chicken and watermelon are two of those things. There's many others like okra and black eyed peas. Other dishes and ingredients originated somewhere else but were developed and popularized by blacks. Texas BBQ was actually cultivated and refined in the black community by migrant farm workers and German butchers. Not all the history is good either. Refined sugar was given to us by mostly black slaves who were worked in horrible conditions often to their deaths. How many people know these things? I think everyone should. It shouldn't be something that divides us. It should be something that brings us together.

[kwassa]

11. You have yet to admit the racist connection.

[intheflow]

22. I suppose the meal would have been fine IF

the school included a lesson on the history of soul food and racist black stereotypes as they were serving it. It's fine for us, as adults, to discuss regional and cultural food rationally after the fact. But the meal alone, presented to children as "black history," devoid of deeper social context, passes along racist imagery and stereotypes. That's the difference, Kitty.

[IrishAyes]

28. Home run!

Although I personally salivate at the mere thought of fried chicken, watermelon, blackeyed peas, and cornbread - my mom was a transplanted southern belle - and I certainly love President Obama, in an imaginary world where he might come to dinner at my house, never in a thousand million years would any of those items be on the menu. Not that he might not actually like those foods himself, it would be a grievous offense on my part to serve them to him. Historical context. In this imaginary world, should he serve them to me at his home, no foul no harm. Again, historical context.

[Major Nikon]

36. I wish they would and perhaps they did, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't

As far as schools go, the role that food plays in culture is simply delegated to what's on the menu for lunch. They talk about famous people and their contributions which is great, but often overlooked is the everyday contributions from normal folks that shaped our culture one dinner table at a time. I think we need to have those kind of conversations rather than just telling people you can't do that, because if we allow the racists to control those messages then we've lost a significant part of our history by not telling the story the way it needs to be told.

[intheflow]

43. They definitely didn't at the time the food was served.

Maybe there's been some education afterwards, that would be good. But probably not since most people, never mind public schools, have no idea how to talk about race and prejudice at all, much less with children.

And you're right, it's a lost opportunity to not teach with food! I think about all the rich black culture that could be taught with food: soul food, cajun food, caribbean food, cuban food, Ethiopian food... and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. The idea that food's role in black - and American - history is limited only to a very narrow menu of Southern soul food ignores the diversity within the black population itself, and their diverse contributions to American cuisine. Might as well teach that all black people are the same. Don't get me started!!

[Deep13]

13. Apparently being a white guy is an open invitation...

...for other white people to start talking racist shit when none of "them" are around. "Hey, there are none of them (whoever) are around. You can say what you REALLY think!" And when I do, that person suddenly doesn't want to know what I think. Jesus, and they wonder why I would rather hang around with Arabs, black persons, radicals, and gays than with "my kind."

A Democratic politician, a small-county D.A., once told me that blacks ruin every neighborhood they move into. Another time, he said that an off-white kid we saw on the sidewalk (from the car) looked like an illegal immigrant. He said that a female lawyer we knew should not be so career-minded, because she would miss the time window for starting a family. He also said he would resign before recognizing gay marriage.

A Democratic campaign volunteer once told me that there were no Jews in the WTC on Sept. 11, 2001, because they had been warned to stay away.

My mother told me that an Obama executive policy concerning unemployment comp was not designed to help me, because I'm not Black. She has also had many choice remarks about the numerous Puerto Rican people who live in her area.

Apparently, it is okay to tell me hateful black jokes because the person telling it did not use the word "n****r." Also, prefacing a remark with, "I know how this will sound, but..." and then proceeding to tell me in coarse language that a black woman is an ATM is not actually racist. Again, didn't use the N-word.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. The "This is going to sound soooo racist, but..."

kills me every time. If it sounds racist, it is racist.

[Deep13]

23. One time only I heard that preface and it was actually a legitimate point.

It had to do with the influence of the Israeli lobby in Washington, but not Jews generally. Every other time, yeah, that's exactly how it sounds.

[MrScorpio]

14. Lead by example

That's always the best

[steve2470]

16. I'm a white man...

and I completely agree with you.

[scarletwoman]

20. Thank you. I am a white woman, too, born and raised in Minnesota in a family of Norwegians.

"Roundheads"

I've known about those fried chicken and watermelon stereotypes since I was a kid, and I've never in my life set foot in the South. Didn't need to, because just like with your grandfather, racism has always been pervasive throughout the whole country.

But I grew up with very liberal parents, who absolutely forbade any sort of racist talk in their presence. They were way ahead of their time, since I grew up in the 50s.

It just saddens me that there are so many supposed "liberals" on DU who can't seem to get - or refuse to get - what Mr. Scorpio and others are saying about how racist stereotyping works. It's as if they refuse to believe that they don't already know it all, so they don't want to listen.

Thank you for this thread.

[JAbuchan08]

24. It's too bad that they had to ruin what would otherwise be a delicious meal of tasty foods

by serving it in February and calling it a celebration of black history month, thereby rendering them racist.

[IrishAyes]

31. Too many people have an unerring instinct to ruin everything they touch. Stupid jerks.

But when they claim not to be racists, we have to believe them, don't we? Don't we???

Another infamous preface: "I'm not a racist, but - " which always proves the point that they are. They protesteth too much.

[cyberswede]

25. To wit:

This negative stereotype is as old as the hills. I've been aware of this since I was a kid. Are there people claiming that the fried chicken/watermelon thing isn't offensive?





...ad nauseum.

[IrishAyes]

26. How about the recent trend toward plantation weddings? Damn Paula Deen!

[murielm99]

30. There is a guy in my community who

is a proud Klan member. I am told that the people at his workplace give him a wide berth. I know he collects racist toys and memorabilia. It is his hobby. His boys grew up to be disgusting little skinheads.

The trouble is, most people are not this openly hateful. It is the subtle racism that we have to watch for, in ourselves and others.

[IrishAyes]

32. There was some white supremacist in Riverside CA whose little boy shot daddy dead,

Apparently on purpose. Chickens come home to roost, don't they?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. Depends on how you are raised...

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=22+Annapolis+Ave,+Battle+Creek,+MI+49037&aq=&sll=42.317701,-85.201228&sspn=0.012249,0.028367&vpsrc=0&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=22+Annapolis+Ave,+Battle+Creek,+Michigan+49037&ll=42.31767,-85.201228&spn=0.012249,0.028367&z=16&iwloc

Go to street view.

Check out the house with the purple trim and in particular, the kiddy pool.

[murielm99]

37. Got it.

I had to zoom in to see the blacks and whites socializing together.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. That's the way I spent my "Wonder Years"....

Battle Creek has a proud history.

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. As long as you don't tell this descendant of Native Americans he SHOULD be offended by a team name,

we're good.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. I can Crow about it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. Sioux me for believing there are more important things to be concerned about.

[Enthusiast]

40. I'm with you, ScreamingMeemie.

I'm white and I also recognize this.

[TBF]

42. The "other" scares people -

as a white woman growing up in the midwest (I'm late 40s now - probably your age) I heard all the stereotypes. Against Jews, blacks, hell - the Lutherans and Methodists didn't like Catholics very much either. It was all very mean-spirited and very common in casual conversation.

I am hoping the internet will have the force to change some of these insular feelings and expose people to others so they aren't so scared. Because that is where these comments come from - fear of things they don't understand.