Wisconsin bus driver punched by teen, throws back, gets fired

[jsr]

http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/city_releases_video_of_bus_attack_475590423.html

City releases video of bus attack
Published 2/11 at 5:32 p.m.
BY JANINE ANDERSON
[e-mail]

Kenosha Area Transit has released the two-minute video of bus driver Scott Wells being punched by a teenage passenger — and his response to the attack, which led to his firing.

Wells was picking up students at Tremper High School on Jan. 17 when a 15-year-old student came to the front of the bus and punched him twice in the face. Wells got up from his seat and went back after the teen, who has since turned 16.

They ended up on the floor of the bus, and Wells landed several punches. The bus crashed into several cars while the driver tussled with the student.

The boy’s mother asked police to press charges against Wells. He has not been charged, but he was let go from his employment with the city. Amalgamated Transit Union Local 998, which represents the city’s bus drivers, has filed a grievance over Wells’ firing, seeking his reinstatement.

[struggle4progress]

1. Dunno what I'd have done if driving. I hope I would have stopped the bus and called dispatch.

But I'm really not sure

Legally, I'd suspect the driver would have been on safer ground if he'd landed his own punches in immediate self-defense without walking away from the wheel: following the student back, and letting the bus continue to roll, might naturally be understood as endangering the safety of persons uninvolved and perhaps as continuing an altercation with a minor student beyond necessity

But getting punched in the face is no joke: beyond the pain and the natural adrenaline reaction, and beyond bruising or skin laceration or muscle damage or broken bones, one can have retinal tears, concussion, and possible permanent brain damage

[JJChambers]

119. Really people?

This driver is the victim of an unprovoked attack in which a young man is reigning blows down upon him. Your expectations of the driver in this situation are too high. Blame the victim much? Many of the posts in this thread REEK of victim blaming -- similar to the rape culture apologists who ask why the rape victim didn't do this or that or the other. Humans do not live their lives constantly prepared to be viciously assaulted.

NO ONE has one iota of blame here except for the vicious, violent attacker who started this. Well, maybe is mom does. But certainly not the bus driver.

Victim blaming on DU... PUKE

[rustydog]

128. And your innocent victim let an uncontrolled bus CRASH into several cars as he exacted revenge

The driver still had a responsibility to ensure the bus isn't a threat to the safety of the occupant and citizens on the roadway!

"Your honor, I had to evacuate the driver's seat to exact retaliation on the kid who punched me. I was too angry to stop the bus first, or put it in park and shut it down ! I'm the victim, not the people whose cars I damaged."

[JJChambers]

131. /sigh

It is unrealistic to expect the victim of an unprovoked, viscously violent attack to maintain the same level of control over the vehicle as normal. We don't blame rape victims who are overwhelmed or overpowered by their attackers to the point where they're unable to escape, or ones who freeze, or any other myriad reaction to being attacked. It's so easy to post what this bus driver SHOULD have done from the comfort of our luxurious leather chairs in the safety of our offices, but the reality is that there is only ONE person responsible for the entire chain of events: the violent hoodlum who attacked this bus driver. That violent hoodlum is responsible for all of it, including the crash.

I hope the bus driver sues the pants of that district and wins big. And I hope that the hoodlum spends the rest of his teen years incarcerated.

[cui bono]

139. Really? Yes. He should have put it in park then gone and restrained the punk.

What if the bus killed someone, which could have easily happened.

You don't just leave a bus careening down the road with no one in control.

[JJChambers]

142. Ideally, no, you don't:

But maybe you do if you're disoriented or stunned from an unprovoked violent attack. Stop victim blaming!

[cui bono]

159. I'm not victim blaming. I did see later how he was pulled from his seat.

I still think as a responsible driver the first thing he should have done was to regain control of the vehicle and stop it before dealing directly with the kid.

It's about his responsibility to the lives of the other kids on the bus. Has nothing to do with blaming the victim. Did I say the driver deserved to be punched? No, I did not.

[RKP5637]

157. ... me not being there, of course, but I think he should have first stopped the bus. He's

lucky he didn't kill a bunch of people, oncoming traffic, whatever. About throwing the punches, I don't blame him one bit, he was attacked.

[rudolph the red]

2. If he had put the bus in park before he went after the kid,

he'd probably still have his job.

[KurtNYC]

80. agree. it would seem the firing is more appropriate for hitting cars than hitting his attacker. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

97. exactly

[Brigid]

3. I wonder . . .

If the driver had had problems with this kid before.

[rudolph the red]

23. That is what set the kid off,

as the kid boards the bus, the driver says, "I've been waiting for you" and hands the kind some kind of infraction slip for a previous incident. They exchange a few few words and the kids sits down, but it's clear that they have a history.

[cui bono]

160. Well that's no justification for the kid acting irrationally.

Now he's going to get yet another infraction.

Having a history justifies nothing, especially when it's clearly an unruly kid and a person of authority over that kid.

[rudolph the red]

161. Totally agree, didn't mean to imply that his behavior was justified

[exboyfil]

4. He should be fired

Losing your temper as a bus driver and allowing the bus to wreck is unacceptable. On the other hand what if he had just done what was recommended by another poster, called dispatch to call the police? Would the kid have been charged with anything serious? If not then we have a real problem in our society After the bus crashed of course the kid would have the book thrown at him.

[warrant46]

33. Good Luck getting a jury to convict the driver of anything

The video of the thug 15 year old throwing a temper tantrum

It was deliberate unprovoked assault

The driver will get lots of $$$ from Kenosha transit for coddling this delinquent

Thank God for Unions

Union president defends bus driver’s actions in altercation

http://fox6now.com/2014/02/12/union-president-defends-bus-drivers-actions-in-altercation/

“When Scotty’s holding onto him and leaning forward, the student was able to easily pull him out of his seat. At that point, Scotty was moving – starting to move the bus forward, so Scotty had no opportunity at all at that point to stop that bus, because he was pulled out of his seat and then they fell in the aisle and then a fight pursued after that. They said it was improper conduct. They felt that he should have stopped the bus. We question at what point should he have stopped the bus? He was pulled out of his seat,” Bassler said.

[exboyfil]

81. I didn't say he should be charged

I said he should lose his job by not addressing his fundamental responsibility - the safety of the other passengers on the bus. If he put the bus in park and punched out the punk then I would have far more sympathy for him keeping his job. Reacting to an unprovoked attack is a different issue. In this case I would not charge him but you cannot claim it is self defense. If he had struck the kid and the kid hit his head and died?? That could be a different question.

EDIT
The kid had whatever beat down he got coming. After viewing another video it does appear the driver is pulled out of his seat by the kid when they fall down. He continues to pursue the kid once the kid retreats, and that is what cost him his job (he should have been worried first about putting the bus into park).

The kid should spend some serious time in confinement in my opinion.

[warrant46]

118. +1

[Eleanors38]

120. I tend to agree. The driver's first duty is safely securing the bus.

I'll wait for due process to work its will, and in fact it seems the LEOs have properly I.D'd the rank skidmark who committed the Felonious assault. His prosecution should send a message to his Parents.

[Le Taz Hot]

5. Well, I think we can see where the problem is here:

"The boy’s mother asked police to press charges against Wells . . ." Ah, another Snowflake who never ever does anything wrong and must be defended whether they're right or wrong. It's one of the reasons I would NEVER teach today. Too may "parents" believe their child would NEVER act out. Then they wonder why, 30 years later, they can't find a job, won't go to school and they're still living in mommy's basement.

[HappyMe]

6. I have to agree.

Makes me wonder if the kid figured he could punch the driver and get away with it, because he's a kid. I would bet that this isn't the first time the kid has punched somebody, and it's far from the last.

It was wrong of the bus drive to crash the bus.

[tblue37]

148. He has obviously caused trouble on the bus before, since he was given

a note suspending his bus pass for disciplinary reasons.

[Scuba]

7. Yeah, that line caused my stomach to flip-flop.

[kcr]

9. Or she's calling for charges to be pressed because they should

He endangered everyone on that bus.

[Le Taz Hot]

10. Or maybe snowflake should have just sat down,

shut up and enjoyed the ride and none of this would have happened in the first place. Nobody's excusing the bus driver but it's amazing how many "parents" can ONLY see the bus driver's actions and not snowflake's actions. This thread is bringing them out.

[kcr]

11. You don't know what "snowflake's" problem was

No one is excusing the bus driver? I'd say some sure seem to be. Certainly the ones blaming the mother for absolutely no reason. Funny how some people are more responsible for their actions than others.

[Le Taz Hot]

12. Please show me, on this thread,

where anyone defends the bus driver.

I'll wait.

[kcr]

15. Easy

"5. Well, I think we can see where the problem is here"

The bus driver got fired because the bus driver jumped out of his seat without stopping the bus to punch the kid back. His own fault.

[Le Taz Hot]

16. Oh, ffs!

Snowflake started this bullshit. And just to be clear for those who CHOOSE to be blind, I am not condoning the bus driver's actions. I find it interesting that the ONLY thing you to see is poor little snowflake as the only innocent, put-upon party here. If you have kids, here's hoping you have a large basement.

[kcr]

18. Not excusing the kid's behavior. Not one bit.

I don't see the kid as put upon at all. I see the mother as put upon with the comments, mainly. Why shouldn't she have a problem with the negligent acts of the bus driver? Every single parent of each and every kid on that bus should. Even the one who punched the bus driver. He doesn't deserve to die either. Nor do the drivers of other cars on the road, I might add.

[Le Taz Hot]

20. Yeah, and I"m sure she marched snowflake

down to the police station and turned his ass in. Not.

[kcr]

21. Yep. That's the problem right there. You have no clue about this mother at all.

Yet perfectly okay with judging her. But you do know that the bus driver, who left the seat of his bus while it was driving to deal with this kid, endangering the lives of who knows how many people, and yet you're okay with that. That is what is ridiculous to me.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. People have opinions.

Deal with it.

I'm done here.

[MillennialDem]

24. Sorry, but I calculate a 95% probability or better that the reason the mother wants to press

charges is because the driver hit her kid - not because the bus crashed.

[kcr]

26. Few parents would decline to press charges in this scenario

He left his seat while the bus was in drive. It crashed into cars. It's nuts to expect a parent not to think he should be charged.

[MillennialDem]

28. Again, the mother wants to do that because he hit her son, not because he left the

steering wheel and pedals and crashed.

And if you watch the video the "crash" into parked cars that takes place is mild/pathetic because the bus is moving so slowly - if anything he should be in trouble for endangering the people he hit or potentially hit in the cars that are a lot smaller than the bus...

[kcr]

31. You do not know that.

Everyone always assumes that misbehaving kids have these awful mothers who are horrible people. She must be the type of person who would only press charges not because she was concerned for the safety of her son and others, like most people, but just because she's petty. Because she has a son who would punch a bus driver. It's a bias people have to make them feel better about themselves and/or their own parenting skills if they're parents themselves. But it's bullshit because it isn't always the case. Sometimes good, decent people have kids who do bad things.

[MillennialDem]

37. How come as far as know, 20 other parents aren't wanting to press charges?

[kcr]

42. They aren't?

The story doesn't say anything about them, but that doesn't mean others didn't.

[MillennialDem]

30. If you watch the video he had no choice but to fight back too. He didn't chase the teen down or

anything, the teen was never farther away from him than bad breath distance.

You make it sound like he left his seat to go chase the kid down.

[kcr]

32. I saw the video and I disagree.

He should have been fired. And if I were a parent I'd press charges too.

[MillennialDem]

35. Ok, how is the driver supposed to stop the vehicle while the kid is continuously

punching him, oh and not get knocked out? Also even if he could, is he still supposed to just keep taking punches from the teen?

Oh and the police (who have surely seen this video) didn't arrest the driver - but they did file FELONY charges against the teen.

[kcr]

40. He got up out of his seat and went down the isle delivering the beatdown

Not that under other circumstances that wouldn't be okay. But on a moving bus, when he's the driver?

[MillennialDem]

43. They fall/scuffle down the aisle as part of one continuous act (the fight). If you've

ever been in one, you end up in all kinds of different places. He did not once chase the kid down the aisle.

[kcr]

57. Whatever. But the addition of the fact he's a bus driver

who needs to maintain control of that moving vehicle is the reason he was fired. And calls for criminal charges aren't all that outrageous or unreasonable. If this were happening in a school hallway or a parking lot? Different story.

[tblue37]

155. There is a point at which the boy kicks the driver away and then runs to the back exit.

At THAT point the driver should have rushed to stop the bus, but instead he heads to the back to grab the kid again. Watch his body language. As he continues his tussle with the teen, there is a moment where he clearly *remembers* that the bus is not in park, so he turns and heads quickly back toward the front.

People assume we are always acting on conscious decisions, but in reality, much of what we do--and even much of what we think--is run by what some neuroscientists call "zombie programs" that do not reach the level of consciousness at all.

Under attack like that, the driver ceased to act consciously. His response to the attack, even the part where he pursues the little jerk, is reflexive, not conscious.

You can actually see the moment when he realizes consciously where he is and what is going on, including the fact that the bus is still moving.

Intense training replaces natural zombie programs with new habits, and if he had been trained (a lot, not just briefly) to react differently to such an attack, then he probably would have parked the bus automatically even while trying to defend against the attack.

But without such training, he simply responded automatically according to the subconscious program that was already there. He continues to pursue and fight with his attacker right up until the moment when conscious volition reasserts itself.

Because I am severely hearing impaired, I am extremely attentive to body language. Watch his pursuit of the teen. I bet that if you are watching for it, you *will* see what I see--i.e., the very moment when he becomes consciously aware that the bus is still moving and he has to do something about it.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

53. I don't know what video you were watching....

..... But that driver was repelling an immediate attack when he rose out of his seat. He didn't get up out of his seat to deliver a beat down - he was in the middle of a fight when he got out of his seat or was pulled out of the seat

It might help if you paid closer attention to the initial Sideview video.

The driver was responding to a violent attack on his person. As soon as possible fought the punk off he returned to his seat.

[kcr]

59. The video I was watching was of a bus driver and a driver's seat

Someone who needed to maintain control of a moving bus.

[MillennialDem]

63. Ok, let's get in your car and I'll punch you and pull you away from the wheel. I bet you can't

maintain control of the vehicle one bit.

[kcr]

65. Okay. Let's clime a burning tower and rescue a kitten!

Also has nothing to do with the story in the OP.

[Javaman]

67. The kid did not pull the driver away from the wheel.

it clearly states in the article that the driver went after the kid.

"Wells got up from his seat and went back after the teen,"

Stop it, okay?

[MillennialDem]

70. The ARTICLE states that? And articles are never wrong? Watch the damn video closely and

you can see whether the driver literally leaves the seat voluntarily or the kid pulls him out, it's clear that he's pulling on him well enough that there is NO WAY that driver is going to be able to maintain control of that bus.

[kcr]

72. Both the article and the video show the kid didn't pull him out of the seat. n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. I don't care what some idiot local reporter wrote or some company bureaucrat wrote.

Watch the video. Pay close attention to where the beginning of the fight is shown from the side view camera (over the drivers window). At :08 in the report video - rewind it several times and notice the driver is trying to fight in place and then gets pulled out of his seat all while the bus is already in motion

The way the article/report is written it sounds like the driver got hit once and then chased the kid down the aisle in retaliation. That's not even close to true.

Watch the freakin video. The bus starts moving and keeps movin during the initial attack as shown by the driver's window video. The attack was a fast and violent series of flailing punches from the side on a seated person.

[gasman09]

85. again the kid endangered everyone.....

by hitting the driver of the bus. He could have made the driver lose control injuring many people and not just those on the bus. Yes the bus driver shouldn't have done want he did but it was the kid that ultimately put everyone in danger by starting it!!!!!!!

[kcr]

88. And again. Not excusing the kid. He's been charged with a felony. As he should be.

No defense of what the kid did. None at all.

[warrant46]

36. The perp 15 year old is a thug and hoodlum

There is a prison cell waiting for him when he turns 17

[Politicalboi]

116. If it wasn't for their snowflake

The bus never would have crashed. I think passengers should sue the snowflakes family.

[gasman09]

83. But the kid hitting the bus driver.....

didn't endangered everyone on the bus!?!?!?!?!?!?

[kcr]

89. Did I say that?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?! n/t

[DragonBorn]

99. Did you even watch the video warren 46 posted?

Look at the beginning of the attack that is shown from the overhead cam from the drivers seat. This is shown over the news anchors shoulder, not the full screen view. The full screen view shown later on is misleading as it doesn't show the beginning of the attack, or why the driver got up.

This special little snowflake did not punch the bus driver twice and run away at which point the bus driver decides oh hey the bus is still moving but let me just chase after this poor misunderstood teenager and attack him.

No the thug attacked the bus driver while the bus is in motion and only lands two punches because the driver starts to defend himself. The teen starts viciously punching the driver and the driver is then forced to defend himself which means getting out of a seated position. The teen kept attacking, he did not stop at any point. Have you even been in a physical fight? Do you think a seated position is an optimal position to defend yourself from a violent person?

Please enlighten the board on what should be done when you are violently attacked? Keep your hands on the steering wheel and hope the next punch doesn't knock you unconscious? If anyone should be charged its this thug, he endangered everyone on board that bus. The driver was trying to reassert control over someone viciously attacking him.

If you want to try a experiment have a friend start punching you in the head as hard as they can while you are sitting in your kitchen and tell us how to defend yourself in that position. Why don't you tell us how that goes? Why do you choose to place blame on an innocent person defending themselves from a violent criminal? Shouldn't the blame be placed solely on the criminal?

[kcr]

101. Sure did. I've watched it several times now.

Thug. That's all I need to see to know what kind of person I'm having a conversation with.

But anyway. Bus! Bus driver! Driving a bus! Bus drivers should stop driving a bus before they do anything else. End of story. I note that is missing in your proposed experiment.

[DragonBorn]

106. Ha ha my word choice upsets you?

I wonder why you have such an exception to the word thug, and have such a issue with an innocent person defending themselves from a violent attack. That tells me enough about the person I'm having a conversation with.

I see you glossed over my two questions, because you know you can't answer them.

"Please enlighten the board on what should be done when you are violently attacked? Keep your hands on the steering wheel and hope the next punch doesn't knock you unconscious?"

I'll ask another question that you will ignore. At what point did this thug stop his attack on the driver? It was one continuous attack where the driver had to respond or risk being knocked out or worse. You make it seem like the poor misunderstood teen gave the bus driver two love taps then ran to the back of the bus and then this violent manic of a bus driver decide to chase him back there for no reason while the bus was in motion.

No Mr. Thug gave the bus driver no choice but to respond there and then or risk being knocked out, which could have been much, much worse if his foot would have gotten jammed into the gas pedal. Then you really would have had an out of control bus.

If you can answer those questions we can have an honest discussion, if you can't I'll know why.

[kcr]

107. I know I can't answer them?

Not really. It's pretty easy to answer why a bus driver shouldn't walk away from the drivers seat when they need to drive a bus. Doesn't get much easier. If I were driving a bus and someone punches me? Step one? Put the parking break on. Because no matter what else happens, no matter what else the guy who punched me does? The bus crashing can burn us all to death. See? Easy.

I'm not even a little bit surprised you wonder why thug is such an offensive word. Shocking.

[DragonBorn]

111. I dont find thug to be offensive. You seemed to take offense to it.

Ok so its not that you can't answer, you just won't answer. Keep on glossing. Its ok, I'm done discussing something with someone who can't even feign that they will answer a legitimate question.

Funny how also someone throwing punches at the your head will make you forget to do things you'd never do. Such as putting on a parking break. Ask anyone who has ever been in a street fight how clearly they where thinking after they got punched in the nose, especially is it was unprovoked with no warning; because I'd bet money you never have been.

The bus crashing can burn us all to death. See? Easy.

This little tidbit speaks a lot. A bus going at about 5mph has the chance of exploding if it hits something? I think your basing all this on a view of the world the movies, video games, and the media give you. You can sustain multiple punches to the head at random, while thinking clearly, and vehicles explode when ever they strike anything.

Its not like the first punch could have knocked this guy out or even the second. Its also not like he had a clear shot to the guys temple, which if hit has never killed anyone in history. Fights are like video games and this bus driver still had half of health bar and he reacted like he was actually in danger!!!

[kcr]

112. Street fight. In a street. Not on a bus. See the difference?

If you're genuinely interested in why thug is offensive, there are ways to find out. The internet is a vast, bountiful place full of information. if you're not interested, then my explaining it to you will not be a productive conversation. I suspect the latter, and I don't feel like wasting my time.

[DragonBorn]

114. Hahahaha my word choice is the best rebuttal you can offer?

You obviously have never been in a violent encounter and you should be glad. They aren't fun. But it would be great if you didn't throw uninformed opinions around in a thread where you had no personal or practical experience. Cocked haymakers at a head pose no immediate danger, and buses going 5mph explode when they hit a parked car.

Its an excellent debating tactic to pick apart word choice such as thug, and street fight and not actually address any pertinent point I brought up. Its ok, other posters who read this thread will notice your obvious dodges.

Because street fight only refers to fights that happen on a street, that's not a descriptive word to illustrate the lack of rules, or the danger. A street fight and an organized fight (boxing, MMA) are two completely different beasts. I've been in both types of fights and let me tell you an organized fight is a breeze compared to a street fight even if the opponent is better trained in the organized fight simply because there are no rules and you have no idea of the intension of a person in a street fight (or should I have said bus fight)!

What is thug insensitive to criminals now? Should I use law abiding challenged individuals? Would that make you feel better? I'll never understand people who get upset when a law abiding person defends themselves from criminals that violently attack them.

[kcr]

115. No, my point had nothing to do with your word choice

only to do with it not being on a bus, involving a bus driver driving a bus. Nothing more. And one doesn't have to have experience to know that's a bad idea. A bus moving without a driver in the seat is bad, bad, bad. There's a video that shows what happened. It's clear that he should have put the bus in park before he left the seat. It's easy for anyone with two eyes and a functioning brain to see this, whatever experiences in life they've had.

[Eleanors38]

121. The driver's responsibility for securing the bus is to be determined...

The descriptor of the attacker has been determined: Thug™.

[kcr]

123. Another shocker n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

133. "The bus crashing can burn us all to death". Let's get real here why don't we.

The bus was traveling 2 or 3 MPH and had a minor fender bender with a couple cars in a parking lot.

It's not like the bus was traversing mountainous roads at 50 MPH.

Since the driver was the victim of an unprovoked violent attack, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in his calculation to defend himself from violent attack versus maintain both hands on the wheel.

My responses if attacked will depend on the situation whether I'm flying a plane (I'm a private pilot), driving 70 MPH on the highway, or driving 2 MPH in a parking lot.


Send the bill for the banged up fenders to the kid's mommy.

[kcr]

134. Yes, let's get real

And live in the world where it isn't okay for a bus driver to leave the driver seat and let the bus go. You're seriously going to argue that it was only 2 or 3 miles per hour? That it wasn't possible for it to go faster? There were cars for barriers? He could absolutely rely on them stopping the bus! That's some seriously creative arguments, I'll give points for style.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

135. At least my argument is grounded in the reality of what really happened.

Your hypothetical "crash and burn" is laughable on it's face.

Here. Let me turn it up to 11 on the stupid meter so my argument will feel more at home with your hypothetical:

I think the bus driver is a hero. That kid could very well have been a junior Timothy McVeigh in the making. For all we know, the kid was attempting to seize control of the bus and suicide crash it in to the nearest federal building.

I think the driver should be given The Medal of Freedom by The President in a ceremony on The White House.

[kcr]

136. The argument it was okay for the bus driver to do what he did

Is not grounded in any reality. The argument that if one is driving a bus, they shouldn't leave it without putting it in park because it could crash and burn is laughable? Yeah. Not reality. Just because it didn't result in tragedy doesn't excuse what he did. The notion we can only judge what he did if they had all ended up dead is laughable.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

137. Can you remind me again what the final result was?

Do you have and photos of the burned out bus? They weren't posted with the article.

Are all the passengers still in ICU or did they get sent to the step-down unit?

Thanks in advance.

[kcr]

138. Hey, bus drivers!

Feel free to text while driving! Leave your seats altogether! Because if no one ends up dead, and the bus is intact, no problemo! According to Hassin Bin Sober logic anyway.

Well, I choose to live in reality. I want the bus drivers preferring to put the bus into park first being the absolute first priority. And that's not laughable.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

141. LOL because texting and driving is the same as defending yourself from a violent attack.

WTF kind of texts do you send and receive??????

If I were you, I would change my cell number.

[kcr]

143. No.

Although your stance on texting while driving also explains a lot. You think there's an acceptable level of texting while driving? Sometimes all it takes is a few words to cause a deadly accident. Anyway. The point is, it doesn't matter that the bus didn't end up a flaming crumpled mess with dead bodies. I'm sorry you didn't get your flaming wreckage that would impress you enough to allow your approval for judgment.

I'll try again. See. When driving a bus, or any vehicle. It might just only go 2 miles an hour. Or, it might not! Buses go faster, see? Just because there wasn't a flaming fatal accident doesn't mean it was okay for the driver to do what he did. For example, people are charged with DUI even if there's no accident. Is it making sense, now?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

144. Derp derp texting DUI crash crash flaming dead bodies derp derp.

Send the bill for the minor fender benders to the kid's mom.

Does that make sense?

[kcr]

145. Yep

I've got you. No one died, so it doesn't matter. Thank god you're not in charge of making laws. That's all I've got to say.

[840high]

90. ....^

[one_voice]

96. I agree...

use to be kids were afraid of their parents when they acted out in school, now the teachers hear shit from parents.

I know someone that defends her 17 year old daughter cussing out teachers whenever she damn well pleases. She says the teachers need to show her (the daughter) respect if they want respect.

I'm not 'friends' with her I know her through someone. She brought it up in front of me once, I was shocked. I wouldn't go home if I cussed out a teacher.

[arely staircase]

127. I do teach today and your broad brush assessment of kids and their parents

is remarkably accurate. The fact is the my child is perfect and I am not going to stand for it parents are probably only about ten percent of the whole. But they suck all the oxygen out of the room and set the standard. I have had parents tell me to my face that their child absolutely did not do the thing I watched them do with my own eyes while the parents were on the other side of town. And you can't say hey lady fuck you though you really want to.

[kcr]

140. Or it's possible you remember those parents

Because parents like that are going to stick in your mind, and understandably so. You'll forget the ones quietly struggling.

[arely staircase]

146. that ten percent are the ones that school administrators live in terror of

they are basically bullies. But 90 percent of parents are not like that. and yes you remember the bullies.

[kcr]

149. I don't doubt that

But it doesn't prove that parents of teens like the ones in the OP should be automatically assumed to be bad people. We shouldn't automatically judge the mother. In fact, it's this tendency that compounds the problem. It's hard enough to get any support when your child isn't "normal". I'm not just talking about behavior issues, i'm talking about anything. Issues of stigma are a real problem. It isn't just bad parenting that leads to issues that might cause the teen to do what he did.

[arely staircase]

151. well as for the woman in the OP

I think we can draw conclusions aboout her based on her own behavior - calling for criminal charges against the driver for hitting her son after said son initiated the violence. But I agree with your general rule of not automatically judging parents based on the behavior of their offspring. I have had students who were awesome self motivated little scholars whose siblings were holy terrors who never did homework and disrupted my class. Same parents same household and just a couple of yeare apart.

[kcr]

153. It doesn't say the charges were for hitting her son

If she wants specific charges only because he hit her son, and not from anything else then yes, she's being ridiculous. But charges against him are not an outrageous claim. I happen to think they're warranted myself. I don't think she should have to abstain from calling for them just because her son was the one who initiated the incident. He's being charged for what he did. Her position that he should also be charged for endangering her son and everyone else on the bus is not unreasonable, and its not evidence that she's a bad person/bad parent. And none of this excuses what her son did. Absolutely not acceptable and charges against him are warranted.

[arely staircase]

156. I got the impression it was for hittng her son

If there is an argument to be made that charges are warranted against the bus driver she is not the one who should be making it. Her kid was the proximate cause of everything that went down on that bus whether the driver erred in his reaction to it. Everything from the ass kicking the kid got to the bent fenders were set in motion when he decided to assault the bus driver.

[kcr]

158. It's not an unreasonable argument to say she shouldn't be the one

but I maintain it isn't evidence she's the lousy person some make her out to be. Every single parent of every kid on there would be justified in calling for them. And she's a parent, too. Her kid did something wrong, but it's still her kid and that bus driver endangered everyone on that bus with his actions. SHe's dealing with the fact that her kid did this and with the whole horrible situation.

[arely staircase]

162. the whole thing

has certainly been one of those DU moments. Very high passion over, in the general scheme of things, an absolutely trvial matter to all but those involved.

[ananda]

8. He should have stopped the bus then and there...

... called the cops... and waited.

[B Calm]

13. Why did the kid sucker punch the bus driver? This fad of

just going up to unexpected victims and hitting them has to end. Punishing the victim is not the answer!

[Lurks Often]

14. Driver should have called the police and pressed charges

I hope the bus driver gets a lawyer and sues the crap out of the parent(s) of the little monster who punched him.

[Javaman]

17. Wait, what? "The bus crashed into several cars"

The guy got up to punch the kid while the bus was still moving???

[kcr]

19. No. He's a hero!

For punching a special snowflake kid!

[Le Taz Hot]

45. Said no one. Ever.

[kcr]

47. ...

10. Or maybe snowflake should have just sat down,

shut up and enjoyed the ride and none of this would have happened in the first place. Nobody's excusing the bus driver but it's amazing how many "parents" can ONLY see the bus driver's actions and not snowflake's actions. This thread is bringing them out.

[Le Taz Hot]

48. I'm sorry,

do you see the word "hero?" If so, you might want to seek medical attention.

[kcr]

55. And I'm sorry

but are you seeing where anyone is discounting what kid did? Both parties are at fault, and did wrong. Clearly. Man, you sure can dish it out with the hyperbole, but you can't take it.

[Le Taz Hot]

58. So, the answer is "no."

[kcr]

64. No...

You didn't literally use the word hero. Otherwise I stand by everything I've said.

[HappyMe]

49. That is pretty much what the dumbass kid should have done.

There's no fucking excuse for what that kid did.

[kcr]

71. No excuse for what the kid did

and he's being charged with a felony. But what the bus driver did? Much worse. And he's not even being charged. This is really the true outrage, here.

[HappyMe]

74. I'm not outraged.

I suppose the driver should have put it in park before he punched the little asshole.

[kcr]

75. Yes, he should.

Then there wouldn't even be a story for everyone else to have a fit over.

[HappyMe]

76. If the little asshole had not punched the driver -

then there wouldn't be a story.

[kcr]

77. I know. If a butterfly had never flapped its wings across the ocean

then the hurricane wouldn't have happened. But shit happens. It doesn't mean you get to leave your bus seat and endanger everyone.

[MillennialDem]

50. Kid is charged with two felonies, driver is not charged with anything. Hopefully he

gets bank from the city/county in a lawsuit.

[kcr]

69. Why on earth should the driver get anything?

Yes, the kid is charged with felonies and rightly so. Which is why I don't understand the outrage by some in this thread to portray him as such an entitled snowflake. He's getting the treatment he deserves already. The bus driver is getting off relatively easy for what he's done.

[reformist2]

27. Yeah, the OP conveniently left out that part in the title, lol - he deserved to be fired.

[MillennialDem]

38. Watch the video. He got up to defend himself because the kid was continuously

punching him. Is he supposed to just sit there and take punches?

Also you know that whole fight or flight thing kicks in too...

[Javaman]

54. so, let me get this straight...

He got punched and kicked (past tense. that's important here) "Wells got up from his seat and went back after the teen,"

He chose to get up out of the seat, while the bus is still moving!

Rather than be an adult and, you know, stop the bus. Or even better, not beat on the kid.

They ended up on the floor of the bus, and Wells landed several punches. The bus crashed into several cars while the driver tussled with the student.

His action totally disregards the fact that he's putting the lives of all the other kids on the bus in danger by not stopping the bus first.

But heck, it's more important to act like a fool, much like the moronic 15 year old student, than it is to be a responcible adult.

Okay then.

[MillennialDem]

56. Well, let's see you try to CONTROL and DRIVE and STOP a bus while I pull you

away from the wheel and punch you. I don't care how big and bad you think you are, but I bet you can't. And I'm a woman too

And by PAST TENSE you mean 0.005 seconds, OK LOL. It was present tense if you watch the damn video.

[Javaman]

61. really? really?

you are excusing the actions of a bus driver allowing his bus to go out out of control?

the kid is a moron and has been charged.

an adult would have dealt with the situation like an adult and not by puttin other peoples lives in danger.

what if that out of control bus hit someone on the street? then what? the kid was to blame? I don't think so.

[MillennialDem]

66. Let's get in your car and I'll punch you and pull you away from the wheel and see if you

can maintain control of said car.

Lose lose situation for the driver. Not fight back = crash. Fight back = crash. PERIOD.

[Javaman]

68. as I responded to your duplicate assertion above...

the bus driver was not pulled from the seat.

he got up and went after the kid.

it clearly states that in the article.

stop it, okay?

[gasman09]

87. And you believe everything you read. lol

[OnlinePoker]

91. No, but I believe my eyes.

The bus isn't moving until the kid hits the driver. The driver then gets the kid in a headlock and gets out of his seat and the bus starts moving when (I'm assuming) his foot comes off the brake. He then pounds the kid 3 or 4 times. The kid then kicks the driver off of him and jumps and runs back towards the back exit. Instead of getting back in his seat to take control of the bus, the driver gets up and walks back to hit and confront the the kid again. This is where it went from being a defensive fight to one of the driver being the aggressor.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1147394/watch-bus-driver-fights-teen-passenger-while-bus-rolls-along/

[Javaman]

93. +1 nt

[arely staircase]

163. if the bus had hit someone the kid very well could be seen as the proximate cause of the person's

injuries. He set the whole chain of events in motion whether there was shared negligence on the bus driver's behalf. But I don't think you can sue a minor.

[MillennialDem]

25. On the other hand if he took out a gun and shot the kid to death (even if the bus crashed)

the NRA would be rushing to defend him, along with the gungeoners and others.

[Eleanors38]

122. Why are you obsessed with gunz?

[cherokeeprogressive]

152. GDS (Gun Derangement Syndrome)... Some people just can't shake it.

It drives them crazy, eats them from the inside, consumes them; even though their chance of getting shot is roughly the same as getting hit by lightning on a sunny day.

[Iggo]

29. Wisconsin bus driver leaves seat of moving school bus to punch minor, gets fired.

Fixed.

[MillennialDem]

39. WI bus driver stands up while teen is holding and punching him. FIXED

[PowerToThePeople]

34. Kid is at fault

Was it a school bus or a city transit bus? Does not look like any school bus I am familiar with. And people were putting change in for the ride. Weird.

Guy should have stopped the bus and put on the break, but I can understand just getting up to defend yourself.

I would have opened the door and pushed the little shit out of the bus.

[surrealAmerican]

78. It was apparently a city transit bus, not a school bus ...

... and I think that is part of the problem. The driver was not trained to deal with unruly teens, and there was no "bus monitor" or other trained person available to deal with disciplinary issues. By high-school age, kids should know how to conduct themselves on public transportation, but they don't always.

[PowerToThePeople]

79. Is the kid in juvenile lockup for assault?

Should be.

[dickensknitter]

82. There are no school buses in this town.

Yes, it's city transit. I just moved into the larger area and it boggles my mind that city has no school buses. They added extra lines or routes to city transit and did away with them I guess. I'd never heard of a town without school buses. It struck me as weird. But where I'm originally from there isn't much public transit at all so they have school buses. Anybody know if they used to have a fleet, then got rid of them? When? What were the arguments for doing so?
I've been curious about it.

[MineralMan]

41. Well, he should have stopped the bus before leaving

his seat, I'd think. Beyond that, I have no comment.

[badtoworse]

44. He should have put the bus in Park and then beat the shit out of that teen

[Boom Sound 416]

46. Hard to judge someone harshly in the sich.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. That fool left the wheel to throw punches?

No wonder he was fired.

[MillennialDem]

52. Watch the video, the kid is pulling him away from the wheel AND punching him.

[Catherine Vincent]

62. Thanks

Can't watch it now but I'll check it out later.

[OnlinePoker]

92. See my post #91

The kid threw the first 2 punches but never grabbed the driver until the driver got him in a headlock.

[Distant Quasar]

60. Yeah, fire the bus driver, because you'd definitely have reacted so much better in his situation

And "react" is the key word here. This young creep started punching him in the face for no apparent reason... I seriously doubt they covered this in his training.

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. I misunderstood the OP. This guy wasn't a school bus driver.

He didn't put the transit bus in park because he was dragged from the drivers seat by his assailant.

The kid should go to jail.

[exboyfil]

86. Hope they do more to this kid than

the three that attacked a 13 year old boy on a school bus in Florida. They stole from him and broke his arm. They got probation, community service, and drug testing - as a matter of fact I think the school district let them back into school.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2407792/Florida-teens-Joshua-Reddin-Julian-McKnight-Lloyd-Khemradj-given-indefinite-probation-sentences.html

[Donald Ian Rankin]

94. Damn right they should fire him, and possibly jail him as well.

Fighting a 15-year-old is one thing.

Fighting a 15-year-old *while responsible for a moving bus*, even a slowly-moving one, is quite another.

Most of this thread seems to be focussing on the less serious side of the issue. That bus could very easily have killed someone, but he just wanders back to pursue the boy and continue the fight without bothering to try to stop it. If he'd stopped the bus at the first possible opportunity, and then gone back to continue the fight, then there might have been a case for him keeping his job.

I can see arguments for or against charging him with assault - it was very clearly the 15-year-old who attacked him, not vice versa, and although he clearly pursues him after he's backed off and attacks him in return, you could argue that he might have thought the boy would attack him again. *But he should have stopped the bus first*. I think the case for charging him with reckless endangerment of human life is much stronger.

[DragonBorn]

100. I posted the same responce upthread to someone else

Did you even watch the video warren 46 posted? Or just going off a headline?

"Look at the beginning of the attack that is shown from the overhead cam from the drivers seat. This is shown over the news anchors shoulder, not the full screen view. The full screen view shown later on is misleading as it doesn't show the beginning of the attack, or why the driver got up.

This special little snowflake did not punch the bus driver twice and run away at which point the bus driver decides oh hey the bus is still moving but let me just chase after this poor misunderstood teenager and attack him.

No the thug attacked the bus driver while the bus is in motion and only lands two punches because the driver starts to defend himself. The teen starts viciously punching the driver and the driver is then forced to defend himself which means getting out of a seated position. The teen kept attacking, he did not stop at any point. Have you even been in a physical fight? Do you think a seated position is an optimal position to defend yourself from a violent person?

Please enlighten the board on what should be done when you are violently attacked? Keep your hands on the steering wheel and hope the next punch doesn't knock you unconscious? If anyone should be charged its this thug, he endangered everyone on board that bus. The driver was trying to reassert control over someone viciously attacking him.

If you want to try a experiment have a friend start punching you in the head as hard as they can while you are sitting in your kitchen and tell us how to defend yourself in that position. Why don't you tell us how that goes? Why do you choose to place blame on an innocent person defending themselves from a violent criminal? Shouldn't the blame be placed solely on the criminal? "

[Donald Ian Rankin]

103. Watch the video yourself - all of it.

The teen attacks the driver, and then tries to get away, and the driver pursues him back into his seat, leaving the bus moving.

[DragonBorn]

117. No.

You and I are watching different videos or your mistaken.

Look at the view from overhead the drivers seat. The fight is one continuous assault. The teen did not ever stop striking or attempting to strike the bus driver.

The teen gets shoved back by the driver. He doesn't try to leave. I don't even know what you watched.

[BlueCheese]

95. Both people wrong.

The kid, obviously.

But the driver leaving the wheel of a moving bus? Really? Geez.

[geek tragedy]

98. had he parked the bus before pounding on the snot-nosed punk, no charges or even wrongdoing

but, the whole part about crashing the bus is gonna leave a mark

[DragonBorn]

102. Everyone talking trash about this bus driver

Obviously has never been in a fight in their lives, or didn't watch the video.

If you've never been in a fight, or don't know anything about fighting, you really shouldn't be criticizing other people without having ANY type of knowledge base.

You people sound like repukes who know nothing about climate change stating it isn't possible because it was called global warming and now its cold.

[siligut]

104. You really don't need to know much more than reality to know to put the bus in park

That should be instinct by now.

[DragonBorn]

108. When?

While Mr. Upstanding Youth was punching him in the side of the head? It's also funny how you loose focus when someone starts punching you upside the head as hard as they can.

The teen was throwing fully cocked back haymakers at this guys head, if he would have connected with his temple the driver could have easily died.

[siligut]

110. The bus driver lost track of his first priority

The safety of his passengers. initially I agree, he had to react, but he stayed longer than he needed to with the boy.

[penultimate]

105. So wait, this idiot just let the bus keep on rolling and didn't bother to stop?

He shouldn't be driving a bus just because of that. I find it rather annoying that the mother of the boy wants charges pressed against him though... If I had a kid and he did that, I would be upset with my kid, not the bus driver... At least not for the punches. I'd be pissed at the bus driver for not stopping the bus first.

[obxhead]

113. Good.

He should have stopped the bus and had the kid arrested.

An ADULT responding to violence with violence is wrong.

I honestly feel both parties should be charged.

[Eleanors38]

124. I'll let the investigation run its course, but your definition of ADULT

is wanting. If someone younger than me attacks me violently, he WILL receive violent self-defense.

Your peculiar attachment of the word "adult" to your choice of actions when attacked does not add moral credence to those actions.

[obxhead]

129. It stopped being self defense when he followed the child to the back of the bus.

At that point it was aggressive retribution.

I stand by my opinion, they both deserve charges in this incident, and it's good that this violent adult no longer drives children to and from school anymore.

[Eleanors38]

164. We'll see. My notion of self-defense has small bearing on life-status.

[obxhead]

165. Actually it has no bearing on age.

It does however have to do with the level of the threat.

Once the child had disengaged from the fight and moved to the back of the bus the adult pursued him to continue the fight. He was no longer defending himself, he was the aggressor.

The driver should face charges based solely on his actions of aggression.

As an adult, he should have known better.

[Eleanors38]

166. Still not determined as to the driver's culpability and

How a "reasonable person" would define that. Said another way, fight-or-flight instints are often cleared up by notions of who struck the first blow.

[arely staircase]

126. I haven't even read any of the other comments here

But I am guessing sides have been taken and whether you are pro punched bus driver or anti is self defining and just in case nobody else has said it Edward Snowden

[DemocratSinceBirth]

130. He would have been fine if he stopped the bus first.

No matter what a driver does he can not relinquish control of his vehicle when it's moving . That's pretty basic...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

132. Let's be real here. The bus never got over 2 or 3 MPH and had a minor fender bender ...

... with a couple cars in a parking lot.

It's not like the bus was traversing mountainous roads at 50 MPH.

Since the driver was the victim of an unprovoked violent attack, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in his calculation to defend himself from violent attack versus maintain both hands on the wheel.

My responses if attacked will depend on the situation whether I'm flying a plane, driving 70 MPH on the highway, or 2 MPH in a parking lot.


Send the bill for the banged up fenders to the kid's mommy.

[RKP5637]

154. In Florida, it seems, no problem. He could've slipped out his gun CW and killed him, kicked him

to the side and finished the bus route.