Why are white men like Dunn so angry

[bigdarryl]

I can answer that three reasons the first is the election and reelection of Obama two right wing radio talk show host stirring the flames with there rhetoric three republicans with there coded racist talk. http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/02/did_white_male_insecurity_kill_jordan_davis.html?wpisrc=burger?wpisrc=mostpopular

[shenmue]

1. Of course

Dunn was said to be 'stunned.' He can't understand why everyone doesn't get drunk and shoot black kids.

[yeoman6987]

54. These types "Michael Dunn" are afraid...

These types "Michael Dunn" are afraid that America is not going the way they want it to. They see that minorities are being considered human and woman have left the kitchen. They are afraid that they may have to share a bathroom with a minority and that freaks them out. Seriously the nuttiest of them probably think as I have written. Most of the nutty white men want a 100 percent White World. Obviously it the White Men like the Michael Dunn's of the world who think this way.

[kelliekat44]

82. Not afraid. Just full of bitterness and hate. nt

[hlthe2b]

2. Yes, of course... Most would probably be "harmless" if RWers did not exploit their fear & anger

Or at least be isolated in their hate...

[JoePhilly]

3. Because minorities stole our PRECIOUS!!!!

Look .. I'm a white guy. And white guys run everything.

Well, not me actually. White guys are supposed to be running everything but for some reason, I'm not.

I struggle to get by.

Now, either I'm doing something wrong as a white guy ... OR, some one has taken what is rightfully mine.

It can't be my fault. That's impossible.

Fortunately, Fox news and the RW media knows exactly who it is who stole my PRECIOUS and who prevents me from being as successful as I should be.

It was minorities and women.

And it makes me angry.

[madashelltoo]

5. Oh, JoePhilly . . .

I'm in Philly too. I am a minority and a woman, but I don't have your Precious. As a matter of fact, none of my family or friends have it either. But, I promise to look for it, and if I find it, I'll give you a holla! Can't nothing be worse than losing your Precious.

[JoePhilly]

19. I grew up in Philly, but have not lived there in a while.

But I still get back from time to time. I see family, old friends.

I know white guys who think exactly the way I described it. In their 40s. Their life isn't going the way they expected. They were going to be rich. But they aren't. Never progressed at work. Divorced. Its got to be some one's fault.

Its certainly not that their partying caused them to miss too much work. Its not that they got caught cheating on their wife. Its not because they bought a speed boat they couldn't afford.

Some one else had to cause this situation.

And they blame you. Minorities got all the breaks that the white guys deserved. That's how lots of them see it.

[madashelltoo]

34. And, I was last hired first fired.

Win some lose some. My city is no different from others.

[SummerSnow]

8. Last time I saw the "Precious"

it was being tossed in the flames of Mt. Doom

[awoke_in_2003]

11. You've summed their thinking up well. nt

[pampango]

16. "either I'm doing something wrong as a white guy ... OR, some one has taken what is rightfully mine.

And I'm not doing anything wrong, so .... I want things to be like they were for my father and his father ..."

That's it in a nutshell, JoePhilly. Well said.

[JoePhilly]

20. I have a few old friends from high school ...

... and that's exactly how they think.

My other observation is that, if a white guy we knew growing up gets arrested, that's an isolated case. If its a black guy we knew, his behavior is indicative of blacks in general.

There's a white guy we knew in HS, got into drugs, borrowed money from lots of folks, never repaid them, forgets the loans exist, stole from friends, wrote bad checks, he got arrested and went to jail. His behavior is NOT indicative of any of us other white guys. Can't be.

But, there is also a black guy we knew from back then, he made basically the same set of mistakes. Ended up in jail. Well, "blacks are like that".

The funny thing is that we know more white guys who have been to jail. We grew up in North Philly, lots of drugs were available. Plenty of ways to get in trouble. Regardless of what color you were.

These guys hear about "white privilege" and they think "what white privilege? ... I didn't get any".

[PotatoChip]

43. Everything you have described in this thread reminds me so much

of what sociologist and author Michael Kimmel touches on in his book 'Angry White Men'. Here is a 10 minute portion of a longer interview he did for CSpan's 'Book Tv'. The guy is very engaging and funny which made the entire interview fly right by. It is not subject matter I had previously given much thought to, but ended up thoroughly enjoying.

For anyone interested in seeing the full interview, here is the link. It is about an hour long if you can spare the time: http://www.booktv.org/Watch/15151/After+Words+Michael+Kimmel+Angry+White+Men+American+Masculinity+at+the+End+of+an+Era+hosted+by+Hanna+Rosin+author+of+The+End+of+Men.aspx

On edit, bummer... It looks as though the YouTube video does not work. Oh well, sorry about that.

[Ilsa]

74. I think you nailed it.

They blame their lack of success, usually defined monetarily by them, on people of color, especially if there is a chance that a minority got a legal preference.

[TheKentuckian]

84. This I think is getting at it.

I do think they are also affected by a much more generalized fear of which the racism and bigotry are just symptoms of themselves. These folks aren't doing all the crazy prepping, gold hoarding, and yes the gun buying and focus just because they hate others.

[Whisp]

88. and the women are going after the rest!

what's a guy to do, mama never told me there'd be days like this.

[Blue_Tires]

4. Sadly too many people buy into the "guns = empowerment" mindset

As if having a gun at your disposal all of a sudden makes you a better/stronger/braver/smarter/sexier person than the unarmed, or automatically makes your side in an argument or dispute the "right" one...

And God help the poor fools who don't instantly grovel at your feet in deference to your ability to end their lives in a split-second...Don't they recognize WHO is in charge here??

[billh58]

59. +100

Well said, and entirely true.

[SummerSnow]

6. Those like Dunn..

feel they are losing their "America". Remember, "we want our country back"?

[etherealtruth]

7. I am not sure white men are any angrier than anybody else

... I think there is a societal mind set that says "They must have had a reason" ... vs the way some (racists) look at men of color (they look at them as if it HAD to be them, without provocation)

[TBF]

9. I think they see opportunities

evaporating and they are angry. It's hard to explain the idea of shifting job overseas and lifting up the standard of living in other places (that seems to be the best spin one can put on it) while jobs dwindle here. When people feel helpless and can't feed their families they lash out. They may or may not pick the right people to lash out at.

And FAUX news.

[butterfly77]

72. It use to be that they could blame..

Black people only, now they have their choice but for some reason they hate black people most of all. They blame all of the ills in society on black people when some of these same people are a contributing factor,last hired,first fired.

Now,they have their choice of who to blame but almost always they find a reason to blame blacks. They talk about education but I know many black people who are educated who still can't find work and they are the very people who descriminate against them,

[TBF]

73. Sadly it still seems to be

a big divide in this country doesn't it? Thankfully it seems that the younger people are less bigoted in general (supportive of gay marriage, races other than their own etc). Or maybe I am just hopeful? It is very sad.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. Now there's a stupid, racist, leading question.

What do you mean by "like Dunn"? What fraction of white men are you classing as "like Dunn"?

[SaltyBro]

12. Exactly

This is divisive and does nothing to help the situation.

[TorchTheWitch]

13. yup

You certainly never see any black men shooting and killing people. And all those white guys that are doing it certainly have no other reason other than they hate that Obama is black.


Just in the last couple of days I've seen several "Stupidest Post on DU Ever" OP's.

[morningfog]

18. I think the OP, ineloquently, is suggesting a different

motivation on the part of these killings by white men, where the victim is black. There does seem to be a racist/hate motivation in part. The hate is manifest as unreasonable fear that ends in a black man's death.

This is different than crimes of poverty and crimes of passion.

[lunasun]

85. +1 !! exactly

[Lost_Count]

23. +1

[gollygee]

38. White men like Dunn

is obviously about white people who see black people as threats in every situation and who get out of joint if black people don't submit to their will.

[uponit7771]

42. +1

[Donald Ian Rankin]

44. Except that that's almost certainly completely *unlike* Dunn.

There are men who fit that description, but most people, including most white racists, don't come near it.

[ieoeja]

60. ?!?

A = “rap crap”[font size=1]1[/font], “jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs"[font size=1]1[/font], “disrespected by a mouthy teenager”[font size=1]2[/font], “you’re not going to talk to me that way”[font size=1]2[/font].

B = "white people who see black people as threats[font size=1]1[/font] in every situation and who get out of joint if black people don't submit[font size=1]2[/font] to their will."

Donald Ian Rankin = "B is almost certainly completely *unlike* A"


Gotta say that conclusion strikes me as rather odd.

[BainsBane]

50. Racist, right.

Because the real oppression in the world is against white males, especially wealthy ones. If only Mitt had been born in Mexico, he would be president now. Life is so unfair.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

53. You have a complete non-sequitur there, I'm afraid.

Are you saying that the OP isn't racist (and also stupid and a leading question), or that even though it is it's morally wrong to point this out?

[BainsBane]

56. Yes, I most certainly am saying the OP is not racist

Moreover, I object to the right-wing version of racism you espouse. Racism is about power; it is about oppression of a subaltern group based on skin color. It does not include an observation of privilege or mentioning the fact that someone is white. This is supposed to be a liberal site. You may not realize it, but the notion that whites are subject to racism originated with White Supremacist groups. That it has now gone mainstream--well, to Fox News anyway--shows how far right the country has moved on these issues. You can choose not to buy into it.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

58. The word "racism" has nothing whatsoever to do with power.

Using the word "racism" to mean "racism", not "racism against powerless (i.e. non-white) people" is in no way right-wing or illiberal.

If you want to make up a new word to mean "racism against powerless (i.e. non-white) people" then by all means do so. But don't use this one, it already has a meaning, and it isn't that. And *certainly* don't get hot under the collar when people use the word to mean what it actually means, not what you want it to mean.

[ieoeja]

61. The OP is still not racist.

The OP is about racists like Dunn. Talking about why a racist is racist is racial, not racist.

Do you not see the difference between racial and racist? Or are you just pretending to be obtuse?

I've never really understood the latter, but I find certain ideological groups like that tactic. It's like they thought, "I know, I'll pretend to be too stupid to understand. Then I can say what I want, and everyone will listen to me because who doesn't listen to stupid people!"

[BainsBane]

62. It was everytihng to do with power

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Racism doesn't exist in a vacuum. You seem to think race and racism are coterminous. They are not. The concept of racism emerged as a means to justify slavery, to justify ideas that some were biologically inferior and therefore destined to serve. Ideas used to promote racial inferiority of blacks emerged at approximately the same time that racist ideas concerning Jews developed in Europe. Both were originated by dominant groups to justify oppression. Those are the origins, uses, and meaning of racism. The version you are articulating was first advanced by White Supremacists in the 1970s as an opposition to Civil Rights and Affirmative Action.

There is a great deal you can read on the history of racism and critical race theory to inform yourself. I suggest you start.

http://www.amazon.com/Racism-History-George-M-Fredrickson/dp/0691116520/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392754963&sr=8-1&keywords=racism+a+short+history

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=critical%20race%20thoery

[YoungDemCA]

66. Thanks for the informative links

Hopefully some readers will learn some more about the real history of racism and white supremacy, and how they are so intertwined.

[Skip Intro]

75. +1000. n/t

[CreekDog]

79. well i'm just thinking of one right now

not you. but maybe you're thinking of him now too.

[JHB]

14. I thought the interview of his former neighbors shed some light on him

As seen in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017175953

Arrogant, abusive, controlling, narcissistic, looked down on everybody. Add in racism so that someone even "lower" on his personal totem pole was talking back to him, and what he did was no surprise.

[Mr Dixon]

15. IMO

IMO Old angry white-men (OAW) are fearful due to changes that are more equal for all and not just them, the land around them is changing, minorities, women and LGBT communities are standing up to be heard and this strikes fear in OAW. Either you change with your environment or you become extinct.

[llmart]

21. That's it in a nutshell.

JoePhilly explained it quite well also. White men (of a certain generation) have grown up with that sense of entitlement that they are on the top of the heat simply for being white and a man, but the times changed, others demanded they get the same playing field, minorities had to work twice as hard at whatever they did just to get on that playing field and when they did, old, white men felt that something was stolen from them. Also, as they aged they realized that their day in the sun so to speak was gone and not only did they have to share with the rest of society, now they had even lost their physical power.

As some would say "sucks to be them". LOL I would hate to spend the rest of my life in a constant state of fear and anger and misery.

[Mr Dixon]

24. AGREED

[Samantha]

69. I agree with your post except I do think that powerful Caucasian men fear becoming a minority

By 2050, the white man will be a minority, at least according to statistics I saw a few years ago. I don't think many who have a lot of power think they will be able to hold onto to it if they do not remain in the dominant nationality. They therefore oppose immigration, have started treating women as second-class citizens who are inferior to men and must be told what to do, African-Americans cannot vote because they will put people like Barack Hussein Obama in the White House, and most importantly, birth control should not be easily available and abortions should be banned. Caucasian women need to start popping out babies right and left and to keep the old white guys at the top of the heap.

Sam
(a Caucasian woman who believes progressive women should never have sex with Republicans!)

[llmart]

70. I thought they already were in the minority in this country...

but I could be wrong. I do know, having worked in a law school, that most of our students were women by a slight majority and the best students were usually the women. Same is true in med school, though I have no latest statistics.

As the old slogan goes "Never underestimate the power of a woman."

[Samantha]

71. I don't know what the current numbers are but I heard this 2050 quoted a few years ago

I am not sure I made myself clear -- you mention women -- but the statistic applied to Caucasians as the majority of citizens in this Country.

Sam

[demwing]

17. You want speculation?

Because unless there are murderous "white men like Dunn" on DU, speculation is all you'll get...

[madokie]

22. You got it

Some people who I used to be friends with I can't even talk to anymore due to the kind of shit you're alluding to here. It sucks that the likes of a pedophile along with assholes like mcPilotnot, grandtheftautoIssa and the rest of the racist bigots have turned this country on its head.

I had hopes of going out on a whole different note. In other words I'm an old Hippie who still is one, just don't smoke the devil weed anymore or dress like I used to, can't handle the long hair any longer so thats gone too but the heart is still there though, same place it always has been.

[Capt. Obvious]

25. Uh, they were angry long before that

I know Obama works in mysterious ways but he wasn't the big bang of racism.

[Rex]

26. White men like Dunn are incredibly lazy people intellectually.

They don't form their own opinion, react horribly in situations that require tact, somewhere along the line they lost their ability for critical thinking. NOW all they have are emotional outbursts like a child and pretty much what they should be thinking and believing - spoon fed to them like babies from insane people like Alex Jones, Glenn Beck and Socknews.

I hate to be mean about it, but they are the WORST kind of people to be stuck around in a crowd. They will ALWAYS cause problems and are in a large way THE problem with America and the reason why so many criminal scandals are forgotten or never even thought about.

But boy howdy talk about Obama and their guns and they go apeshit crazy! Some of them are really dangerous people, as can be seen by Dunn's murderous actions.

[upaloopa]

30. That sound like what Dunn said about Blacks

only 180 degrees out of phase?
Why is what you say any more worthy than what he said?
Are you making the world a better place too ?

[Romulox]

31. It's ham-handed satire, surely?

[Rex]

32. I'm sorry if my post hurt your feelings.

nt.

[upaloopa]

35. You didn't hurt my feelings. I just wonder why

here at DU it is ok to be bigoted toward some folks when what we are about is inclusion.
The angry white guy is a DU favorite.

[Rex]

40. Well there is no comparison, but sorry if I hurt your feelings anyway.

Sometimes it happens.

[upaloopa]

41. Why the hurt my feelings meme?

We don't agree here obviously. I think you are a bigot and you think I am hurt?

[gollygee]

37. OK let's compare

"black people"

and

"white people LIKE DUNN"

I see a clear difference.

[Rex]

39. Thank you, I thought the question so obviously ridiculous I thought it was a joke.

Looks like I touched on some nerves.

[Populist_Prole]

64. Analyzing it, that's what it really boils down to

At least in the case of some people I know personally. Unfortunately, two of the worst are long time friends of mine and sometimes I can't stand to be around them anymore since they went from normal centrists and became angry white conservatives. They're not stupid, are at least of average intelligence, but mentally lazy to the point they're always barking up the wrong tree and getting angry at the wrong people/groups/blocs.

It's almost as if they do this deliberately because of the righteous feeling it gives them to be mad as hell about whatever. Thinking the issue through would not only show them they were wrong, but deprive them of a fire-in-the-belly righteous indignation; the sort a loud bellicose drunk would have.

Your last sentence made me chuckle. They've turned into first class gun humpers. They know damned well the 1 percenters are ripping off the whole country but they're single issue gun voters and they sure do go apeshit whenever talk of the president comes up. They're political arguments are just talking-points salad and they get it wrong every time, and so their last comeback is always about the same thing: guns, and the paranoia thereof.

It HAS to be laziness, since nothing shy of a chemical imbalance or head injury can make a normal person become just plain stupid.

[Rex]

68. Growing up in south Texas, many many neighbors were about 3 screws away from being a Dunn.

Short of like you said, chemical imbalance - normal people just get mad and walk away.

[snooper2]

27. When you say "white men like Dunn", I assume you mean aging and overweight

He worked off and on for his daddy's company his whole life-

Is pretty overweight,

and basically kind of a loser-



I guess white men like that would be angry---

[upaloopa]

28. Why is anyone angry?

There are a lot of angry folks posting on this board.
I see that they don't like the way a certain group thinks or acts.
It isn't just white guys. Though it is fun to join in the innuendo and camaraderie of being DU PC.

[Squinch]

29. Well... sometimes bonobos can be quite aggressive, so...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I think it is rank terror at the loss of their unearned privileges. If they can't tell themselves they are innately superior to those who they used to be able to subjugate, they come to see that there is no other aspect of their personalities that makes them feel worthy.

[Sissyk]

33. Some people are just really angry.

Some people are just really racist. Some people are just really angry and really racist. Dunn fits both.

Heck, last week (maybe two now) a man in my state sent a package to his in-laws with a bomb inside. Killed them both. Makes not a bit of sense to me. His wife's mother and father!! That takes a tremendous amount of hate, along with other problems.

[gollygee]

36. Interesting article in this DU thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4519558

here's the article: http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/our-legal-system-capable-defending-black-life-against-irrational-white-fears-jordan

On the stand, Dunn framed his irrationality as something heroic: a grown man demanding respect, refusing to be disrespected and using deadly force. In recognizing this moment as the manifestation of untreated trauma, what Dunn demanded - and expected - was submission. Black males were supposed to submit to his demands, his white male authority. When mainstream media holds on to the "what do we tell our black boys about how to behave" narrative, it sanctions Dunn's focus on black boys' behaviors as opposed to his own totally irrational and criminal aggression.

These are our politics of emotionality: the failure to deal with "post traumatic master syndrome" - white men's expectations that black male bodies must submit to their authority, without question or challenge and that their feelings and opinions must be central to how black male bodies navigate the world. It is that cancer that moves unchecked via prosecution and defenses in Florida courtrooms turning them into hostile spaces for black male victims of white fear, rage and hatred. Evidence of racial prejudice - though clear via Dunn's prison letters - failed to make it to the jury.

[Starry Messenger]

45. Sadly, someone alerted on your OP.

Luckily, they won't be able to alert again for 24 hours:

Why are white men like Dunn so angry
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024516762

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Why are black men so angry? It's that Hesse Jackson !"

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:46 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To the alerter: False equivalence. When you can show a history of institutionalized racism against whites, get back to me. "Reverse racism" ("they do it, too&quot is a BS talking point first floated by rush limbaugh, white supremacists and white nationalists to appeal to the prejudice of those who are looking for a scapegoat to blame for the inequality in the world (or the US) and to make sure those institutions in which the power actually resides, are held blameless.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Please refrain from fuckwitted alerts.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see nothing wrong with this post. OP has a good question.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Is that you, Skip Intro? I like creekjegg.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Geez it was an observation of Dunn's racism.

I don't get the alert.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Poster does not say 'ALL white men'. Some men, like Dunn, ARE angry and for the reasons poster says (plus fear, of course.)

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[sufrommich]

48. Puke. I hope the admins note who

the alerter was.

[Starry Messenger]

49. I hope so too. nt.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. See this should be brought

To admin's attention. This was a totally abusive use of the jury system here. The brat that alerted ought to be given a month or two of sitting in the corner.

[Starry Messenger]

65. I think the admins get all of the alerts sent to them automatically now.

I'm stunned someone thought that could get past a jury here. Or maybe not...

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. ROFL at Juror #4

Ping!

[Rex]

57. Ugly, but predictable.

Some here cannot stand to talk about 'angry white men' syndrome, cannot guess as to why.

[Cali_Democrat]

86. Juror #4!!!

[AverageJoe90]

46. Part of the reason, to be truthful, is simply because.....

Honestly, they are beginning to losing sight of the illusion of so-called "privilege" that the .01% once presented to them, once upon a time. And realizing that painful truth, that this peculiar illusion is slipping away is making many of them very, very angry. They don't want to accept that it was all a lie, that they're not truly all that "speshul" in the eyes of the .01%. Instead of accepting the truth, they are now ever increasingly taking their anger out on People of Color, women, LGBT persons(of both genders!), and anyone else that they see as a supposed "threat". And the .01% are all too happy to use these racists, these reactionaries, etc. as the "running dogs" as it were, against the disadvantaged, and those of us who stand with them.

[Initech]

47. I'm guessing they scored low on South Park's TMI index.

[DonCoquixote]

52. Because America used to defer to them

They were the default setting for anything good, which meant that their mediocrity could be ignored, and the excellence of others ignored. Now, that is challenged, because even the plutocrats are finding this illusion too expensive to maintain.

[get the red out]

63. Right wing media

So long as RW media offers cheer-leading services to hatred, no one has to look within themselves or inspect (and cast aside) any negative responses they have to a changing world. This is certainly no excuse for murder, but I believe it makes these murders easier for certain people to commit.

[LittleBlue]

67. I'm sure there are plenty of angry people who don't shoot into cars

It's when you combine angry with crazy that you get results like this.

[winter is coming]

76. They are unable/unwilling to remove their fear goggles. n/t

[valerief]

77. Because he's dumb as a stump. Stupidity can be very frustrating when you

can't control everything in your environment.

It's like being a billionaire.

[Agnosticsherbet]

78. They are angry because they world htey thought existed was destoryed when someone not white was

elected. It is as if they woke up and the sky was pink poke-a-dots, chickens spoke Italian, and cats and dogs debated Plato's Republic.

Everything changed, and they have not recovered.

[Nye Bevan]

80. Because of people using "there" instead of "their"?

I'm white and that absolutely makes my blood boil.

[bravenak]

83. Lol!

I'm sure that's what it is. And the auto correct on their iPads auto replace words and replace them with words that don't fit the sentence. Makes them look like drunk texters.

[truebluegreen]

81. Middle-aged (white) guys;

their lives have not turned out the way they planned/were told they would; SOMEBODY is to blame and OF COURSE it has to be somebody ELSE.

Bear in mind that these peoples' lives have been lived in a declining and now collapsing society/system. Their parents--however they voted!--were able to make their own and their families' lives better. That is no longer true, and hasn't been for 35 or 40 years. In the typical conservative mind-set, this has to be due to Enemy Action, and in typical conservative fashion, they have accepted a convenient scapegoat.

Of Course it has to be because Somebody Else is getting something they are not. Unfortunately, their aim is poor (after being deliberately mis-directed). It must be black people/brown people/layabouts/hippies/commies/whatever/SomebodyElse.

Perpetual victims, they are also perpetual patsies.

[bettyellen]

87. ask one of these angry white DUers.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024531063