Is there any way to conduct a civil war without "killing your own people"?

[Smarmie Doofus]

I keep hearing this in relation to Assad ( and before, famously, in relation to Saddam).

But didn't Lincoln "kill his own people"?

DU Historians: enlighten us please. It's been a long time since I read about the American war of secession in some detail , but I'm pretty sure "killing your own people" was the general idea.

I just came from a political event where this phraseology was being thrown around casually in relation to ( and of course as a rationale to intervene in ) Syria.

The new thing tonite was: using starvation as a tactic. Assad does that, apparently.

But...... wasn't that pretty much a stated war aim of the Union in the 1860's? Blockade, torching the fields etc.?

Or maybe I just got that idea fromClark Gable and Vivian Leigh.

Anyway... was Lincoln really that GOOD..... and is Assad really that BAD?

I started to look up civilian deaths in the Civil War but didn't find much. Apparently not much attention paid to documenting that in those days. Too bad.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

1. Well, HEY! That makes it a-ok! Never mind the Syrians started out like the Ukrainians in Kiev today

They were peacefully demonstrating against Assad's repressive, autocratic regime and then he wantonly fired upon his own people. The U.S. and others kid if flinched. Managing a transition of governments in Egypt, Libya, and other countries is one thing....but Syria and Iran are large, regionally powerful countries backed by Russian influence.

Anyway, even in war there are certain practices and behaviors that are against international law and constitute war crimes. I believe it is some of these practices being called out.

And, no, most of the killing in the U.S. Civil War was soldier vs. soldier--not civilian population.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. libya is a mess and egypt is back to square one and the opposition in syria stinks of al qaida

we never had a good option in Syria, but we propped up a doomed bloody insurgency anyway. In the process we re-destabilized Iraq. Oh and we restored Russia as a player in the region. On the other hand, unless we fuck it up, normalization with Iran with resolution of the nuclear weapons problem is possible.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

4. the scenario you described is far superior to doing nothing.

Russia has been a major player in the region for a long time--it just became more evident as the Syria thing started boiling.

Please provide evidence that the Syrian conflict is what led to uptick in bombings and other violence in Iraq.

[cheapdate]

2. How well you think Bashar al-Assad compares to Abraham Lincoln in terms of human decency

is completely a matter of perspective. From my perspective, it's not even close. Lincoln is the better man.

Lincoln went to war to hold a nation together.
Assad went to war to remain in power.

Lincoln was fired upon first by Confederates at Fort Sumter.
Assad responded with lethal violence to widespread popular demonstrations against his 30 year rule.

The character of the assaults upon densely populated areas by Assad's forces is simply a higher level of savage than those carried out on southern cities by forces under Lincoln's command.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I believe this is Atlanta

You be the judge.

For the record, Sherman's Campaign to the Sea was pure hell, by design.

That said, the difference is in the goals of the war. But civil wars, by their very nature ARE brutal.

[tblue37]

6. Well, we starved the Iraqis of food and medicine

when sanctions were imposed on Iraq after Gulf War I, so apparently starving civilians, including children, is still considered an acceptable US tactic.

IOW, I see your point, though (on edit) cheapdate sure has a major point, too!

[sarisataka]

7. Short answer-

no

Then again there is nothing civil about any war

[Common Sense Party]

8. Is there any such thing as a "civil" war?

Necessary wars, perhaps, but never really civil.

[Javaman]

9. I must not think bad thoughts...

the civil wars and the uncivilized wars
conflagrations leap out of every poor furnace
the food cooks poorly and everyone goes hungry
from then on it's
dog eat dog, dog eat body, and body eat dog
I can't go down there, I can't understand it
I'm a no good coward
and an american too, a north american that is
not a south or a central or a native american
oh, I must not think bad thoughts



Until the people of any nation are listened to with respect and their concerns taken with serious thought, there will always be uncivilized wars.