Voters Blame Trade Agreements for Job Losses

[eridani]

And in this case, they're right

http://www.nationofchange.org/voters-blame-trade-agreements-job-losses-1393166248

A new Gallup poll shows that jobs and unemployment has risen to the No. 1 spot on the country’s “most important problem” list. At the same time another poll, this one of likely voters, confirms this and drills down to find that voters overwhelmingly see unfair trade agreements and outsourcing as a main cause of our job problem.

Among the poll’s findings:

•65 percent of voters consider outsourcing as the reason for a lack of new manufacturing jobs (70 percent of Democrats, 61 percent of independents and 65 percent of Republicans). Only 28 percent of voters cite a potential shortage of skilled workers for the lack of new manufacturing jobs in the U.S., and only 25 percent say it is too expensive to manufacture in America.
•60 percent of voters say the U.S. needs to “get tough” with countries like China (58 percent of Democrats and independents, 64 percent of Republicans).
•79 percent of voters blame trade agreements and unfair trade, and want enforcement, including 76-77 percent of GOP voters.
•84 percent of voters support a national manufacturing strategy to “make sure that economic, tax, education and trade policies in this country work together to help support manufacturing.” This includes 87 percent of Democrats, 82 percent of independents, and 82 percent of Republicans.
•80 percent of voters want strong “Buy American” policies in government spending, with 67 percent “strongly in favor.”

[djean111]

1. People who recognise this sort of thing can't, of course, vote against Obama.

They can, however, vote against DEMOCRATS.
This sort of thing will make fantastic campaign fodder.
Now, the Democrats are the party that proposed chained CPI and the TPP. All the convoluted smoke-blowing "explanations" won't make that go away.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. My brother, just about the lowest information non voting as you get, absolutely "KNOWS".....

.... Clinton fucked him and his union buddies with NAFTA.

Trying to explain the intricacies, I'm sure, didn't work on my brother. But I gave it a shot.

[bvar22]

32. President Obama himself has admitted that NAFTA fucked your brother and his buddies.

Maybe it is not your brother who needs to understand the "intricacies".

[Marr]

73. +1

[Maedhros]

41. Um.. but Clinton did fuck American workers with NAFTA.[n/t]

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. Duh. But that doesn't mean they should vote for Romney or Rubio or Christie.

I'm not excusing Clinton AT ALL. I dislike the "lesser of two evils" as much, if not more, than the next guy - and I know it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference anymore. But when some low information voter wants to place NAFTA all on Clinton, I will remind him it was the repiglickers who beat the fuck out of them - the conservadems just held their coats.

[Maedhros]

50. What frustrates the hell out of me

is that we have people like Clinton pushing NAFTA and GATT and Welfare Reform, and Obama pushing TPP and Chained CPI, yet when those nominally-Democratic low-information voters get pissed off about it and vote Republican it is the Liberal Left that gets blamed for the outcome because we have the temerity to demand that our leaders stop doing shit like that.

[Jack Rabbit]

53. Absolutely correct, it doesn't mean that at all

It means there is precious little difference between a Republican, who thinks politicians being corrupted by large campaign contributions from large corporations is how our political system is supposed to work, and a third-way Democrat, who thinks pretty much the same thing.

Of course, Democrats have the advantage on social issues. Here, Republicans are outright fascists who are presently dreaming up ways to keep women, young people and minorities from voting and bussing in Brown Shirts to disrupt public forums dedicated to solving problems concerning public health.

However, the plain truth of the matter is that income inequality will destroy America faster than anything else, and the establishmentarians in both major parties are aiding and abetting the robber barons rather than abating the crisis. It would take a police state to maintain that level of inequality. I find it ironic to allude to a famous phrase by a president of the recent past who is responsible for much of the current crisis, but a police state cannot be the shining city on the hill.

[dreamnightwind]

74. You got that right

You're dead on with what you say about income inequality, it's unsustainable without a police state, yet the policies of both parties make it worse, while also funding the growing police state.

I'd focus on getting private money out of elections. Other countries have done this, we need to make it happen here, it's seemingly impossible from where we are but it has to happen. MoveToAmend, RootStrikers, whatever, any better ideas?

[iamthebandfanman]

46. only the media

thinks bill Clinton was/is a liberal :p
republicans are good at name calling, and when they call someone a liberal (and in comparison to any of their views how could you not seem liberal from differing) it sticks.

there are a lot of other reasons beyond NAFTA that ole bill made sure he could never be thought of as a 'liberal' president (DOMA, DODT, Welfare reform 96, repeal of glass steagall.. just to name a few)...
we haven't had one of those since FDR sad to say.

[loudsue]

60. EXACTLY!! And anyone that read Obama's books before 2008 knew Joe Lieberman was his "mentor"

The corporations have the democratic party leadership so tightly in their grips that they will continue to push out the Howard Deans of the world, and welcome in the Clinton/Lieberman/Obama crowd.

I read Obama's books. I know all about the University of Chicago and their philosophies. I knew Obama was a conservative democrat. I don't think even Obama knew how much the masters control the presidency, however. That part, I think, was even more conservative than he has been comfortable with.

Just my opinion.

[grahamhgreen]

67. But Lieberman was the lone holdout against the public option! I

guess that is more evidence Obama was never for it....

[loudsue]

79. Rahm Emmanuel, I'm sure, counseled Obama to "consult" with the insurance companies first.

Like Lieberman, there were deep ties there.

[blkmusclmachine]

2. Int'l trade agreements are so maverICKY ~

[antigop]

3. I'm sure the Third Way sycophants will K&R this --- NOT! nt

[RoccoR5955]

4. Bring back tariffs!

Before WWI tariffs paid for EVERYTHING!
Bring them back.
If it costs a dollar to make a widget in the US, and it costs twenty cents to build it in China, put an eighty cent tariff on it!
THEN, and only then, will we see jobs coming back to the US!

[bkanderson76]

5. Simply Put

[wolfie001]

6. Even the Simpson's parodied Apple......

.....factories in China with the nets surrounding the building. Homer ended up jumping in it. Would've been funnier but sadly it's the truth and Jobs knew he was paying those fellow humans buckets filled with dirt.

[RoccoR5955]

29. It's not JUST Apple

ALL your electronics are made overseas in slave-labor factories.
Not just Jobs knew, but EACH and EVERY corporate executive knew, and still knows.

[wolfie001]

68. Yes you're 100% right!

[L0oniX]

23. Bring back FDR!

[pampango]

30. That wouldn't help. FDR campaigned against high tariffs, lowered them and

pushed postwar policies that made it difficult to bring them back.

[L0oniX]

35. Yeah well I think you know he got America working again ...so whatever.

[pampango]

40. Oh he definitely did that.

He just used other means to do it. As we should.

[Egalitarian Thug]

52. Notice how effectively they've turned protectionism into a dirty word?

If not to protect its citizens, what is the purpose of government?

[L0oniX]

65. Corporatist centrist reframing term "protectionism"

[sabrina 1]

69. Good idea, and stop giving subsidies and tax breaks to Corps that take jobs out of the

country. Any Corp that takes jobs out of the country and expects tax breaks, MUST abide by US labor laws, not they are so great, but Corps want NO labor laws which is why they go to third world countries where workers are treated as slave labor. If they get tax breaks they must pay foreign workers at least the equivalent of US minimum wage.

Of course this will never happen so long as Corps are buying politicians.

So we have to start by setting a standard for the people here first. NO votes for candidates who receive Corporate funding. Make Corporate Funding POISON for anyone seek election in this country even if we have to write in candidates. THEY worked hard and long, made concessions, did whatever they had to do in order to achieve the control they now have over our government.

But one thing is certain, we cannot keep doing what we have done up to now. It hasn't worked for the voters. A change in strategy is badly needed if we are ever to begin to turn all of this around.

[PearliePoo2]

7. From the linked article...

and here (IMO) is the money quote:

"A way to visualize the damage done by this trade deficit is to imagine what would happen to our economy if $500 billion of orders arrived right now at companies making and doing things in the U.S. The huge boom in the economy that would result from $500 billion of orders coming in represents the drain caused by $500 billion in orders going out instead."

[JDPriestly]

10. Excellent explanation.

Brilliant.

[Amonester]

63. And almost ALL the profits from such BOOM would end up in....

the same bank accounts.

Offshore.

Just like the last ones from the Great Recession (tm).

[pipoman]

8. a candidate and/or party

Will harness this and sweep some upcoming election. The labor party is dead. A new one will emerge with or without the DNC.

[JDPriestly]

11. Yes. We hoot and holler about the split in the Republican Party.

But those jobs that have been exported over the last 30 years. They were jobs that Democrats did. Those paychecks that are now being paid out in foreign companies. Those were American paychecks, and they were a lot bigger than the ones being paid in places like China today.

Of course Americans hate trade agreements. How could we like them.

The oligarchs or as they like to think of themselves, "the meritorious winners," sold out their country, their fellow countrymen and don't they feel proud of themselves every time a new trade agreement is rammed down the throats of the working people of America. Don't they feel proud?

[pipoman]

13. A lot of people abandoned the Democratic party

Over the years since the party abandoned labor...There is no difference in labor policy between the parties so they went to the party that feeds their other interests like religion, guns, and "family values".

[CANDO]

18. Bingo!

We have a winner!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

26. Or they were peeled off by same.

Chicken vs. egg but I tend to agree with you.

[jsr]

9. And they're correct.

[Mr Dixon]

12. IMO

These are the fruits of a cooperation controlled country; this is the way forward; a sound business practice asks anyone with a business degree. Let’s be clear, all CEO want more money, they are all squeezing the last drops of blood from the working poor, the endgame is simple every person that is not rich should be working in retail, landscaping or public service in-short minimum wage jobs, and all unions will be destroyed, That is the wet dreams of the rich. Mean while the public is stuck arguing over Guns, Gay marriage, police brutally and the injustice department. This is a classic shell game, the rich shuffle the card and the public picks wrong every time and this is all according to plan no conspiracy needed.

[Populist_Prole]

36. Your opinion is astute

This type of vulture capitalism is largely enabled by huge numbers of the working poor that bark up the wrong tree and blame the wrong people/groups.

[Mr Dixon]

39. AGREED

Thank you Sir

[Enthusiast]

14. It couldn't be more obvious. Like Chained CPI, trade agreements are electoral suicide.

Makes one a tad curious.

I lost two factory jobs due to permanent plant closings. Both were profitable operations. This was devastating to me and my family. Both plants had been in operation for more than 60 years at the time. Both factories changed over to munitions production during World War Two. Closing these factories was also very damaging to the local economy. The jobs have never been replaced.

These trade agreements have done immeasurable harm to the American worker. I do not care what the apologists say. Just look at the trade deficit.

Citizens of the Asian nations involved with the TPP have no purchasing power because they are living on near starvation wages. They cannot afford our products. But trade advocates do not care.

Advocates of these agreements have their highly paid sockpuppets to defend the indefensible. We will hear from them shortly.

[pampango]

31. "Apologist" and "highly paid sock puppet" checking in.

I do appreciate the effort to focus on history and evidence rather than calling posters' motives into question.

(BTW, where do I collect this "high pay" that someone owes me?)

[Egalitarian Thug]

38. You don't have to be paid to be wrong. Most of the suckers that have bought this line

are nothing more than just that, suckers.

Some are sociopaths that believe they will come out rich and have no concern for the price they will inflict on others in order to get theirs, but most are just the same unimaginative, incurious, sheeple that go through their lives waiting for someone to tell them what to do. At some point someone said do this and I will give you a little bit of money, and so there they are.

[pampango]

43. Now it's a choice between being a "sucker", "sociopath" and "unimaginative, incurious, sheeple"?

Advocating a "Canadian/European" approach to trade does not go over well. I should have been content with "apologist" and "highly paid socket puppet". That sounds more lucrative than being an "unimaginative, incurious, sheeple" who was told to "do this and I will give you a little bit of money" so here I am.

(I suppose I should ease up on the higher/progressive taxes, tighter regulations, stronger unions and well-funded safety net. That could be what is blowing my paycheck from the PTB.)

[Egalitarian Thug]

44. No matter how you attempt to modulate your advocacy, regardless of all the jargon crafted

to imply subtle differences too obscure for the layman to comprehend, i the end it all comes down to global parasitism and your belief that it's a good idea.

[pampango]

47. Now Europeans, Canadians and I support "global parasitism"? They will be crushed, I'm sure. As am I.

Interesting that higher/progressive taxes, stricter regulations, stronger unions and a well-funded safety net have been reduced to mere "modulations" "too obscure for the layman to comprehend". You don't give the "layman" much credit. Nor do you seem to be aware of what policies progressive countries actually use to achieve their world-class equitable distributions of income. The "layman" in those countries is well aware of what policies support the "socialist" societies they live in.

[Egalitarian Thug]

48. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it."

But, thanks for keeping the OP kicked.

[abelenkpe]

15. It's not just manufacturing

Tech, animation, and VFX jobs have also been victims of offshoring. And those job losses have absolutely nothing to do with a lack of skilled labor.

[ctsnowman]

17. Exactly!

The lack of skilled labor line is just blaming the victims BS.

[jsr]

27. Yep. Key word: India.

[Phlem]

42. yep.

I've had to go "indie" with a couple buddies to continue what I do in video games. You used to work 60 hours a week for 40 hours of pay (yes, salaried) and I can't even imagine what it is now for the few people still in the industry. Good luck if your in your 50's. Oh and if you apply for a job here in the US, you know there's a couple hundred others applying for that same job too.

My job got shipped at the beginning of Bush's Presidency but I could see things happening when Clinton was in office.

Been a freelancer ever since and not doing well at all.

I hate free trade agreements, it's all bullshit.

-p

[ctsnowman]

16. K & R

[CANDO]

19. NAFTA

I still have conversations with conservatives who point out that it was Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA. Of course it then winds up being a circular argument as I point out that it (NAFTA) was generated by a Republican Congress.

[L0oniX]

22. So repukes made Bill sign off on it?

[pipoman]

28. Nonsense

It was almost completely bipartisan. I will not forget seeing dems and thugs standing on the same stage in a lovefest talking about how happy they were to come together and agree to authorize "fast track" authority for the president. No, it was as democratic as TPP is now. A disgrace to the former "labor party" it is. .

[CANDO]

71. Right you are, but my point being....

That for most everyday conservatives, they never acknowledge that these trade agreements have always been their darling babies. And yet they paint Bill Clinton as responsible for NAFTA, even though the majority of the votes for passage came from Republicans. In the House the Dems voted no 156-102 , andin the Senate Dem caucus it was closer, but still more voted nay than aye.

[pipoman]

76. Hair splitting

The labor party abandoned labor. We all should expect such things from the rethugs, we should expect Democrats to oppose things like this. ..no, it was the dems baby too and so is TPP.

[L0oniX]

20. Mr. No Shit Sherlock agrees. Hey Obama ...get a fucking clue.

TPP will hurt our chances come voting time ...duh!

[grahamhgreen]

33. Ya know, I liked the way you put that!!! +1

[EC]

21. Well, either I'm missing it or it's not there

No one said Trade Unions. I'm surprised that Republicans weren't saying trade unions broke the corps into moving.

[kath]

25. time to bring out the pitchforks and torches.

[BrotherIvan]

34. And yet those answering this poll will still shop for the cheapest price no matter what

Doesn't matter what class you're from (except the upper classes which buy based on status) consumers are so used to their slave-made goods--cheap crap that looks like it has a lot of bells and whistles. Doesn't matter that it may be made from something harmful. Doesn't matter that it will fall apart at the seams in a few months. They want a big, shiny package with the lowest sticker.

Trade agreements make it so easy to go overseas and with so much customer pressure for low prices, it's almost impossible not to. We have basically negative tariffs. I was sourcing some raw materials in Korea as it is nearly impossible to source many things in the US, and the agent was telling me the tariff for importing it. But, if the product is also manufactured in Korea and comes in as a finished good, there is no tax. So basically, it's a tax break for using foreign labor.

I wonder if any of these voters in the poll know this. They think of manufacturing of large, industrial goods, but it is happening in every single industry in the country. CONSUMERS HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS. If consumers put a premium on Made in the USA, all the manufacturing would come back here. Corps follow the money. If it became a fad and people were willing to pay the upcharge for American labor, corps would do it.

But yuppies are willing to eat their "organic" food from South America and Asia, wear "eco" clothing from India and Pakistan, dress their children in "organic cotton" from Vietnam and Malaysia made by other children, all while paying a premium for the eco label, but not for the labor. Poor consumers shop by price, but how many times have you seen cartloads of stuff being wheeled out of WalMart and filling the trunk of the car? All that stuff is made by slave labor and that's why it's so cheap you can afford a cartload. People have no idea the cost difference on consumer goods for Made in the USA, but they also do not understand the difference in quality. We can blame the corps all we want, but if people keep buying their crap, why would they stop?

[druidity33]

75. Very Salient points Brother...

time to go back to Victory Gardens and maybe
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle... or MAKE DO.

[TygrBright]

37. We did last time, too. Google "NAFTA." Made about half a shit's worth of difference. n/t

[iamthebandfanman]

45. "Bill to Repeal NAFTA Stalled in the House"

from 2011



http://economyincrisis.org/content/bill-repeal-nafta-stalled-house

[B Calm]

77. Republicans blame democrats for NAFTA, but

when given the opportunity to repeal. . .

NAFTA has always been a republican brain storm, they need to step up and own it!

[OnionPatch]

51. This just goes to show how bought and paid for our govt. is.

When that many people are against NAFTA type trade agreements but they get pushed through anyway, when our current trade agreements can't even get the smallest tweaks to make things more fair, we know we're screwed.

[cprise]

54. K&R

[woo me with science]

55. K&R Great thread.

[ProSense]

56. Good poll, and

the fact sheet is well done: http://americanmanufacturing.org/files/AAM_Poll2014_FactSheet.pdf

[colsohlibgal]

57. Crazy Old Ross Perot Was Right

And it's been one big giant sucking sound since as the jobs get vacuumed away.

[Enthusiast]

58. Voters are 100% correct.

Voters that have been the actual victims of free trade agreements are pretty hard to convince that free trade agreements are in their best interest.

Again, promoting free trade is electoral suicide. Although having a divided congress serves the interests of the elite so.......

Give it some thought. Sockpuppets already have the script so no thought is necessary.

[Populist_Prole]

61. Yeah, and you know what really burns my ass?

How patronizing and absolutely insulting those wonks that continue to push this kind of garbage are. I mean, it's been known for decades FTAs are poison for the 99 percent and every successive on gets worse and worse - And yet: They trot out the same canards as if it were the first time we've ever heard of them....as if we are all John Dimwit III.

[Enthusiast]

62. And all the while the media acts as if the TPP doesn't even exist.

So much for freedom and democracy.

[MisterP]

70. if they keep it up people will start distrsuting those who talk down to them constanly!

[rhett o rick]

59. If we lose big in 2014 this is the reason. Not Ralph Nader or some other lame excuse.

Democrats are not fighting hard for American jobs. Hello! The Administrations number one priority will kill American jobs or at least that's what the voting public believes.

[BrotherIvan]

78. What the cheering squad fails to understand is that people already know

People know that no one is fighting for them (with a few exceptions), that the game is rigged against them. I have never seen so much despair in this country. Obama won because of his promise of "change"--one word: change--because that encapsulates what people so desperately want. To get back on the right track somehow, not be told to eat our peas and cheer. It was as cynical a sales pitch as I have ever seen.

Democrats win because Republicans are so bad. I know many people who were very dispirited and weren't going to vote, but reconsidered when Rmoney won the nomination. It seems like no coincidence that the Republicans, crafty cage fighters, could only put forward the clown car of idiots. They are getting everything they want from a Democratic president. Now that Democrats are breaking away from the TPP, the Republicans are siding with Obama. It's so damn obvious what the plan for the country is.

[Curmudgeoness]

64. The numbers of GOP and Independent voters

who are on board with this is significant. I am surprised.....and I see this as a way to get many of those voters to vote for Democrats IF we really would do something about it.

[Romulox]

66. Americans also love their Hyundais and Toyotas. Basically, they're idiots.

You can't have free trade for manufactured goods, and protectionism for IT jobs. It's dumb.

[Populist_Prole]

72. Spot on post

You hit on an ugly point not enough talk about:

"You can't have free trade for manufactured goods, and protectionism for IT jobs"

It's a completely social class based meme of basically picking winners. Manufacturing gets thrown under the bus, while paper pushers suddenly become economic nationalists when it comes to finance, "intellectual property" and the like.

[Savannahmann]

80. But many "foreign" cars are made in America

Starting with the plant that's been in the news quite often, Volkswagen in Tennessee. They build the Passat model there, and Volkswagen has announced it is planning on spending $5 Billion to increase their share in the North American Market. Right now they're number three, they hope to be number one.

Toyota has a plant in Texas, and one in Indiana. Kia has a plant in Georgia, which is a nice change since Ford shut down their plant in Georgia. BMW has a plant in South Carolina. Honda Accord, 80% built in America, which is more than most of the cars the "american" companies offer.

Should I go on? These are not merely assembly plants either, many of the components of those cars are "American" made. The Toyota Sienna van I bought (Built in Indiana) is 75% American made. The Kia Sorento is 60% made in America, roughly the same percentage as a Ford F-150 pick up truck.

Merely going by the name of the car is not a good way to determine where the vehicle was built. The Ford Transit van for example, is not built in America, well that's not entirely true. 10% of it is. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/MadeInAmerica/page/made-america-car-american-made-13795239

The Ford Fusion with it's european styling appears to be leading a resurgance in Detroit. I admit it's a pretty good car, and it should be since it was built in the most modern factory Ford owns, the one in Mexico. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermosillo_Stamping_%26_Assembly

One of the many reasons I bought the Toyota Sienna van was because it was built in Indiana. Add to that quality product, long life expectancy, reliability, efficiency, and we'll throw in comfort for shits and giggles. I only wish I'd sprung for the handicapped access package, but wishes and fishes and all that sort of thing. http://toyotamobility.com/

American made isn't Ford, GM, or Chrystler any more. It hasn't been for a long time. But knee jerk reactions always call them "American" brands while ignoring the cars that are actually built in the country. I've never understood that, because it demonstrates the massivly ill informed population that is reacting to the name, instead of the facts.

[Romulox]

81. H1B IT workers also work in America. So your point falls flat.

Are we worried about what country work is done in, or whether cheap labor undercuts US workers?

If it's the former, then where is there room to whine about H1B IT workers? If it's the latter, non-unionized auto plants aren't much defense. Either way, the idea that service jobs can (or should) be protected from cheap international competition in a way that manufacturing jobs are not is a fantasy, as we are seeing.

[Savannahmann]

82. I spoke of cars because I am interested and informed.

One of those interests is Le Mans. The race lasts for 24 hours and during each lap the cars accelerate to 200 MPH and and break for a low of 50 MPH. The stresses on car and driver are unimaginable for most of us. Each year new technology is developed and deployed. Each team works to improve on the year before. You learn from your own experience and what your competition is doing.

My point in bringing up the "Foreign" cars built in America was I thought fairly obvious. If Toyota, Volkswagen, Honda, BMW, and all the others are able to manufacture a car in this country profitably why can't Ford and GM? We have a lot to learn from VW and their plant in Chattanooga. The environmental innovations are cutting edge and revolutionary. Denouncing them because they are German is at best foolish. Sure I'd like to see them go union, but does that deminished the quality, the environmental advances? Must we throw the baby out with the bath water?

I want to learn from the best, and improve upon it. I want to see what is possible, and the push it further. If VW can do it, anyone can. So why aren't we? That was and is the point. What can we learn, and how can we improve?

[Romulox]

83. Sure, speak of cars. But also speak of the engineers who design them. "Foreign" workers

are very much part of this conversation.

The rest of your comments "Denouncing them because they are German..." (who did that?) don't seem to be responsive to anything I've written here.

[Savannahmann]

86. Seriously? All of that and you grasp at the "Engineering" straw?

Fine, let's look at some of that shall we? I know of a couple off the top of my head. The Toyota Tacoma pick up truck built in Texas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tacoma#First_generation_.281995.E2.80.932004.29

Design work was done at Calty Design Research in California from 1990 to late 1992, when Kevin Hunter's final design was chosen and frozen for production in 1993. Patents for the production design were filed in Japan in April 1993 and October 28, 1993 in the United States.[2][3]

Now I admit there are folks in Georgia who consider some states including California a foreign country. I am not one of them. I got a big laugh out of the New Mexico screw up at the Atlanta Olympics for example. http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-01/sports/sp-41795_1_summer-olympics-ticket

So that truck was designed, and built in America. Does that make it American Made?

It's a shame that Honda isn't putting money in R and D in America. Oh wait, they are. http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=200707063450

TORRANCE, Calif., March 27, 2006 - Honda broke ground today on a new $15 million Acura Design Center, the latest expansion of Honda's product design and development capabilities in North America. The Acura Design Center, scheduled to open in summer 2007, will play a critical role in the development of new concepts and designs that will lead directly to future Acura products developed in North America. The facility will be located adjacent to Honda R&D America's existing Los Angeles Center, which will continue to research and design future Honda products.

My point and question stand. If those companies and many others can do it, why can't the traditional American companies?

[FreeJoe]

84. Trade is a good thing

It mutually benefits both parties to the trade. Virtually every mainstream economist agrees that interntional trade is a good thing.

That doesn't mean that every trade agreement is good. Many focus as much on corporate and market protection as they do on increasing trade.

That also doesn't mean that everyone benefits from more trade. The nation overall benefits when its people are free to trade with people in other nations. Care must be taken to make sure that those benefits are distributed fairly.

We complain when people ignore overwhelming scientific concensus on issues like evolution and global warming, but then too many of us oppose equally settle issues like the benefit of international trade. We shouldn't be fighting trade. We should be shaping trade agreements to better distribute the gains of trade and help those individuals hurt by it.

I know this isn't a popular opinion here, but it is what it is. My nomex is on.

[pampango]

85. Nice post, FreeJoe. "Care must be taken to make sure that those benefits are distributed fairly."

The nation overall benefits when its people are free to trade with people in other nations. Care must be taken to make sure that those benefits are distributed fairly.

We complain when people ignore overwhelming scientific concensus on issues like evolution and global warming, but then too many of us oppose equally settle issues like the benefit of international trade. We shouldn't be fighting trade.

Care should be taken that the benefits of all economic activity, including trade, are distributed fairly.

To my mind the same mechanisms that "distribute fairly" the benefits of the economy as a whole - progressive taxes, strong unions, strict regulations and a well-funded safety net - will "fairly distribute" the benefits of trade, too. (If we had no trade, those would be necessary to achieve an equitable distribution of economic benefits. With them we can achieve a more equitable society and the benefits of trade will be shared fairly, too.)

All the developed countries in the world have a more equitable distribution of income than we do in the US. And trade is a much bigger part of the economy in each of these countries. They realize the "benefit of international trade" so they do a lot of it. And they make sure that those benefits are widely shared.

[eridani]

87. The notion that TPP has something to do with trade is a bunch of bullshit

Only 5 of its 29 articles deal with trade. The others deal with establishing corporate dictatorship over elected governments.

[pampango]

88. Some of the confusion comes from references to the TPP as "NAFTA on steroids" or NAFTA II when

NAFTA was all about trade and the TPP is, as you say, primarily about other things.

You get people posting against the TPP as if it were primarily a trade agreement. "Look what happened with NAFTA", "another free trade agreement", etc.

Then you get folks defending trade even though that's not what the TPP is mainly about.

[eridani]

89. NAFTA fucked over the 99% in all of North America

The 1% were very happy, though.

[pampango]

90. And NAFTA was a trade agreement and the TPP, as you pointed out, is largely not.

The notion that TPP has something to do with trade is a bunch of bullshit.