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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 07:36 AM Feb 2014

Is the Next Big Economic Bubble About to Pop?

http://www.alternet.org/economy/about-burst-next-big-economic-bubble



***SNIP

The current levels of share prices are extraordinary considering the U.K. economy has not yet recovered the ground lost since the 2008 crash; per capita income in the U.K. today is still lower than it was in 2007. And let us not forget that share prices back in 2007 were themselves definitely in bubble territory of the first order.

The situation is even more worrying in the U.S. In March 2013, the Standard & Poor 500 stock market index reached the highest ever level, surpassing the 2007 peak (which was higher than the peak during the dotcom boom), despite the fact that the country's per capita income had not yet recovered to its 2007 level. Since then, the index has risen about 20 percent, although the U.S. per capita income has not increased even by two percent during the same period. This is definitely the biggest stock market bubble in modern history.

Even more extraordinary than the inflated prices is that, unlike in the two previous share price booms, no one is offering a plausible narrative explaining why the evidently unsustainable levels of share prices are actually justified.

During the dotcom bubble, the predominant view was that the new information technology was about to completely revolutionise our economies for good. Given this, it was argued, stock markets would keep rising (possibly forever) and reach unprecedented levels. The title of the book, Dow 36,000: The New Strategy for Profiting from the Coming Rise in the Stock Market, published in the autumn of 1999 when the Dow Jones index was not even 10,000, very well sums up the spirit of the time.
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KansDem

(28,498 posts)
2. There is a $1.2 quadrillion derivatives market...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:01 AM
Feb 2014

...that's 20 times the size of the world economy.

Big Risk: $1.2 Quadrillion Derivatives Market Dwarfs World GDP

One of the biggest risks to the world's financial health is the $1.2 quadrillion derivatives market. It's complex, it's unregulated, and it ought to be of concern to world leaders that its notional value is 20 times the size of the world economy. But traders rule the roost -- and as much as risk managers and regulators might want to limit that risk, they lack the power or knowledge to do so.

A quadrillion is a big number: 1,000 times a trillion. Yet according to one of the world's leading derivatives experts, Paul Wilmott, who holds a doctorate in applied mathematics from Oxford University (and whose speaking voice sounds eerily like John Lennon's), $1.2 quadrillion is the so-called notional value of the worldwide derivatives market. To put that in perspective, the world's annual gross domestic product is between $50 trillion and $60 trillion.

--more--
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/09/risk-quadrillion-derivatives-market-gdp/


Economics isn't my forte isn't this setting the stage for disaster?

spinbaby

(15,089 posts)
3. The last collapse was scary
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:16 AM
Feb 2014

It's bizarre that we're depending on what is essentially a giant casino for our retirement.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
4. I wish
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:33 AM
Feb 2014

I wish Alternet would tell us why we should give this author an ounce of attention. I was ready to dismiss it as more fear mongering, but I said, no-no, perhaps this is one of those times when Alternet might actually be reporting something.
Ha-Joon Chang teaches economics at Cambridge University. He has a Phd.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
5. Ha Joon Chang is a good guy.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:39 AM
Feb 2014

He wrote Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism, which examines how damaging free market "solutions" have been in terms of economic development and worker progress.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
13. That's what I saw, too, but I had to look for it by following multiple links
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 01:47 PM
Feb 2014

Alternet should print something with the article to indicate why this particular author would know what he is talking about. It's one of the reasons why many people will dismiss Alternet stories as fringe.

mopinko

(70,090 posts)
6. s & p 500 measures damn little
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 09:52 AM
Feb 2014

they pick their winners and replace their losers with impunity.
means nothing.

 

greiner3

(5,214 posts)
8. Can anyone say Irrational Exuberance?
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:32 AM
Feb 2014

I just started to cash out my Roth Ira stocks and will be 90% cash after one more 1% market gain.

If the crash happens before then, I'll still be 75% cash.

johnlal

(990 posts)
10. Executive Compensation
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:41 AM
Feb 2014

After cutting everything to the bone, cutting labor salaries and benefits, cutting quality of goods, lowering standards of services, outsourcing everything to a cheaper labor force, lobbying for "tort reform" and lower taxes--- after everything is cut down to where it hurts, they will find that the only place left to cut is executive compensation. First they will lay off their nephews and their girlfriends' husbands who form a cadre of "Vice presidents" in do-nothing jobs given as favors. But then it will come down to CEO's and Presidents. And the corporation will wonder why they are paying 100 million dollars for a job that could be done for 400,000.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
11. This is good for us investors, thanks to dollar cost averaging....
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:43 AM
Feb 2014

we just ride the ups and downs and will always end up ahead. Sounds like a great buying opportunity on teh horizon!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
12. In the late '80s, my family returned to the US after living overseas for a number of years.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 11:33 AM
Feb 2014

I got a job in a small office and, in discussions with an older immigrant woman accountant, I realized that, in order to take advantage of a tax deduction, she was borrowing money and writing off the interest from her taxes. I was horrified. I had just moved back from a country that encouraged everyone, especially working people, to save. In fact that country, instead of giving a monetary incentive to borrow, gave one to save, even to small savers. Made sense to me. That woman was basically borrowing money against her retirement and her house. How stupid can you get?

So, I became very interested in how economics works. But I had no academic background, so I read all kinds of books on what led to the Great Depression.

Of course, the books have different theories. My own conclusion was that the biggest problem was the disparity in wealth between rich and poor, rich and what passed for middle class.

When a few, we call them the oligarchs sometimes, gobble up a very great proportion of the money and products and services produced in the economy, they cannot spend it all on personal consumption. So they invest.

And today, the super-rich don't want to have to sit at their computers and watch stocks go up and down all day, not unless they are nouveau riche who happen to work in investments. So the super rich hire investment counselors and invest through things like hedge funds, etc. They are investing money in companies in which they have no personal stake other than friendships maybe with other investors or the management. They don't have a lot of personal sweat and tears in the companies in which they invest. The companies ship a lot of the work overseas, so the big investors just rely on the money their money makes. And also, a lot of these very wealthy people inherited their money. It may be managed by a trust or by some relative's choice of investment counselors, brokers or hedge funds.

So the money of the super-rich gets handled like a toy by someone who stands to gain, perhaps, based on the number of transactions that are performed. That encourages selling and buying stocks. And of course if you want to keep your job and you are the person or company advising someone wealthy but not that much of an investor himself, you want to show a profit. So there is a lot of incentive to try to push the stock market up whether the level of the stock market has any relation to the health of the economy or not.

Too much of a nation's income in the hands of too few leads to a very valuable and volatile stock market and a lousy economy for everyone. Sooner or later the fact becomes obvious that the stock market is just high because a lot of people are getting high on trading stocks does not indicate a healthy economy. Quite the contrary.

I don't need to state the corollary -- that a stock market that is extremely high when wages are low and the real unemployment rate, not the prettified government one, still pretty high will mean that consumer demand for goods is low. The stock market at that point, and we are quite possibly there now, is likely to bust any time.

I note that Obama is suggesting a big stimulus program involving developing infrastructure. Maybe he is trying to stave off another bust. Bush did that by pushing the housing market. We went bust anyway. That is not the answer. You have to increase the share of income that the very wealthy pay in taxes and then distribute that in a more balanced way in the economy.

When in an economy, the rich grab a huge, huge share of the wealth, it is like a person who eats only sweet or fatty foods, no or very few vegetables, meats, fish, fruits, eggs or cereals that aren't sweet. The body is likely to become very unhealthy. Sooner or later, the unbalanced diet will push the body out of balance. High cholestral, obesity, some types of diabetes and skeletal problems can result. That should be easily understood. You cannot build a house so that the base is the peak of a triangle and the roof is the base of the triangle -- like an upside down triangle. That is because the house will be top-heavy and prone to tip over. That is what we have now in our economy. Most of the money is flowing to the roof, the penthouse of our economy. It is getting too heavy to be held up by its narrow base. We will either tip over or just stagnate.

I'm not calling for socialism because I think that is a better system than capitalism. No. I don't think that, and that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the fact that when the rich get such a large portion of a nation's wealth that all they can do with it is invest it in things that cannot produce marketable products or services because 80% of the population has incomes so low that they cannot buy the products and services produced with the money of th every rich, the economy just gets sick.

Disparity in wealth is our biggest economic problem. And the biggest reason that we don't do anything about it is because we are frightened to death of the word, "socialism." That is stupid because it isn't about a choice between capitalism and socialism. It is a matter of making a wise decision to get our economy back into something approaching a balance between supply and demand. Right now, we have too much supply capacity (not actual supply but the capacity to create supply, in other words too much money floating around Wall Street) and not enough demand (too little money floating around on Main Street).

Raising the minimum wage, increasing the real tax rates on the rich, imposing tariffs on certain imports and other actions would help get us back into balance.

That's my opinion.

 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
14. If the above scenario happens - Then We Go Iceland
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 03:13 PM
Feb 2014

Screw 'em! Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can holler pitchforks and all that, but Non-Chicago School Economics PhD's, Masters, etc. should show up in the Halls of Congress, taking them our legislatures by the hand, shut the door (sorta, we need some transparency - Daily Working Papers, okay, sounds good), sit them down and tell them it is a New Day in the U.S. and the adults are now in charge. Race the other side to do this. You know they're prepared.

No more - you cannot get one person making less than $100k (benefit of the doubt) who would agree on allow the current paradigm to continue as is if another Melt Down happens.

We do not give a flying rat's ass who is sitting the POTUS' chair. Talk down who's fault it is politically but talk up the real people behind this - the derivatives market and Wall Street. If we have to Occupy every MSM station in the U.S., so be it. THEN we turn to the politicians.

Initech

(100,068 posts)
15. We need to completely tear down our whole economic system and start from scratch.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 03:16 PM
Feb 2014

Whatever we got now, it ain't working, and it continues to get worse and worse.

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