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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSeems that ole' Putin is Protecting Ukraine from those neo-Nazis we've been hearing about
Or so he told Angela Merkel, to explain the "extraordinary situation" that forced Russian intervention. The Russian speaking, eastern populace of Ukraine needs protection from the constant neo-nazi threat and Russia has no choice but to move in to protect them.
That sounds to me like a weak pretext, even by the standard of weak pretexts.
(Story in LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014743429 )
See... this is why I take a lot of stuff with a grain of saltand especially overseas.
There are a lot of forces pushing certain narratives. Many of those narratives have some truth to them.
For instance, al queada types in Syria. Are they there? Yes. Resounding yes. How large a force are they in the aggregate armed opposition to Assad? Well... depends who you ask. 20%? 80%? Does anyone really know? Does anyone in the western press really know?
And do people with a story to tell have an interest in one narrative or another? Almost all of them would.
Do governments push certain views of that opposition? Yes.
Do multiple governments push differing self-interested narratives? YES! Everyone does it. Everyone is pushing their naratives all the time.
__________
Does Ukraine have ultra-nationalists (aka neo-Nazis). Yes.
Did they participate in some of the protest violence? Yes.
How big a political and cultural force are they in Ukraine? Hard to say... once we get away from true/false we are getting into narratives and value judgments.
Was some of the "Ukraine protest movement is largely ultra-nationalist" narrative fed out by parties favoring Russian interests, as a precursor to military involvement?
Yes. Of course. Why not? The Russian equivalents of the CIA and State Department are not rookies. Not all stories, but certainly some. There's no way around it. The same way that a lot of stories about Syria were to some degree driven by American interests. (And some driven by Russian interests, Saudi interests, Jordanian interests, Israeli interests...)
And none of that is to say that ultra-nationalists are not a substantial problem in Ukraine. If nothing else, with Crimea lopped off the nation the ultra-nationalists from the west will be a bigger percentage of the electorate.
But everyone has a viewpoint and starting assumptions, and almost everyone has an agenda, and major powers push this stuff.
So I am skeptical. About all sides.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Preferably ones that reinforce my existing worldviews and political inclinations. Get on that, please.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)And simple-minded troublemakers like Nuland spouting drivel like Kerry make the perfect foil for Putin's machinations.
JI7
(89,248 posts)and you call others simple minded when you make a comment like that about world conflicts.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)... has no business in Crimea. We had no business in Iraq. We had no business in Afghanistan.
There is not a military solution for every problem as Iraq and Afghanistan have shown clearly. There is nothing we could accomplish in Ukraine using military force that would not cost 10 times its value.
Enough already.
Not every problem is fixable, at all, and the ones that are, are not necessarily ones that you should fix.
Sometimes the smart thing to do is wait. Most of the time, the smart thing to do is wait.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But this is definitely Europe's business, and that makes it our business. That said, I am not advocating any action on the part of the U.S. at this time, but it's far too simplistic to say that this is none of our business.
-Laelth
Laelth
(32,017 posts)I honestly believe there's a grain of truth to Putin's claimed desire to protect ethnic Russians in the Ukraine from Ukrainian neo-nazis that we helped usher into power. I also believe said ethnic Russians could be in danger absent Russian intervention.
This is a very delicate matter, to be sure.
-Laelth
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)...oh wait.