CIA spied on computers of Senators to find out what they were putting in report on CIA torture.

[Ichingcarpenter]

WASHINGTON — The CIA Inspector General’s Office has asked the Justice Department to investigate allegations of malfeasance at the spy agency in connection with a yet-to-be released Senate Intelligence Committee report into the CIA’s secret detention and interrogation program, McClatchy has learned.

The criminal referral may be related to what several knowledgeable people said was CIA monitoring of computers used by Senate aides to prepare the study. The monitoring may have violated an agreement between the committee and the agency.

The development marks an unprecedented breakdown in relations between the CIA and its congressional overseers amid an extraordinary closed-door battle over the 6,300-page report on the agency’s use of waterboarding and harsh interrogation techniques on suspected terrorists held in secret overseas prisons. The report is said to be a searing indictment of the program. The CIA has disputed some of the reports findings.

White House officials have closely tracked the bitter struggle, a McClatchy investigation has found. But they haven’t directly intervened, perhaps because they are embroiled in their own feud with the committee, resisting surrendering top-secret documents that the CIA asserted were covered by executive privilege and sent to the White House.


Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/04/220161/cia-monitoring-of-senate-computers.html#storylink=cpy

Now you still think there is not a problem with domestic surveillance and the intelligence community?

NSA apologist come forward

[First Speaker]

1. It's time for the CIA to be tossed into the dustbin of history...

...Harry Truman himself, who authorized its creation, was appalled by what it had become, as he said in a famous 1963 article. That was 50 years ago. Whether or not they had anything to do with the assassination of JFK, they certainly acted to hamper the HSCA investigation, at the very least. They've illegally interfered in domestic politics. They've overthrown foreign governments at will. And of course, they've been wrong in their forecasts of just about everything, most notoriously in not seeing the collapse of the Soviet Bloc. Now this--a blatant, illegal assault on the prerogatives of Congress. This country can survive just fine without a Central Intelligence Agency.

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. The CIA and the NSA work

hand in glove .... especially when it comes to data collection, phones and computers.

[sabrina 1]

22. I agree, they seem to cause MORE trouble for this country and others, than anything else. The

possibility for abuse by any agency that claims so much right to 'secrecy' for 'National Security' reasons, has been proven by them over and over again.

If they have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to hide. Same advice they give us back at them.

[FreakinDJ]

26. Save Democracy - Cut and Slash the CIA budget

[Enthusiast]

39. They would only smuggle more drugs to make up the shortfall.

[Scuba]

2. But the CIA's just here to protect us ...

... and to make sure they have the goods on any elected officials who might try to rein them in.

[Ikonoklast]

6. The CIA works for Big Oil.

Wherever that resource can be found, you will find both together drinking mojitos and planning the overthrow of a government.

[kenny blankenship]

3. Sounds like they've got nothing to hide

and so no reason to worry!

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. The Senate or the CIA?

which begs the question.

[Savannahmann]

7. Sounds fair

I mean, the CIA/NSA/FBI considers all of us threats to national security and in essence we're powerless. So why not spy on those with the power?

[grahamhgreen]

8. How sick does one have to be to not prosecute torturing innocent people?????

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Surprise!!!!!

Not

[fasttense]

10. Spying on political opponents is always what

spy agencies devolve into.

[Octafish]

15. The once dangerous, now late Frank Church comes to mind.

Frank Church, (D-LIBERAL IDAHO) was a patriot, a hero and a statesman, truly a great American.

The guy also led the last real investigation of CIA, NSA and FBI. When it came to NSA Tech circa 1975, he definitely knew what he was talking about:

“That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back, because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.

I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capability that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.”

-- Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) FDR New Deal, Liberal, Progressive, World War II combat veteran. A brave man, the NSA was turned on him. Coincidentally, he narrowly lost re-election a few years later.

And what happened to Church, for his trouble to preserve Democracy?

In 1980, Church will lose re-election to the Senate in part because of accusations of his committee’s responsibility for Welch’s death by his Republican opponent, Jim McClure.

SOURCE: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=frank_church_1

[sabrina 1]

24. His heart would be broken if he were alive to see his predictions come true, even more to see

many in his own party try to defend these egregious abuses and violations of the people's Constitutional rights.

Thanks for reminding us that there are heroes Octafish who should never be forgotten.

[Octafish]

27. Frank Church was a great man in every way...war hero...

In World War II, he flew a small, slow, unarmored, unarmed Piper cub type aircraft over enemy lines as an artillery spotter.

The guy stood up to the CIA, NSA, FBI and the rest of the Too Secret to Govern crowd.

You are most welcome, sabrina 1. I believe you know that Frank Church also would be proud of his integrity.

[sabrina 1]

31. Yes, I did not know that much about him, but not surprised that he was an actual real hero

where it counts, in every way. Unlike the sleazy, cowardly, five deferment, AWOL war mongers and their followers who cheer for every wrong war and invasion, while making sure to keep their own worthless rear ends safe in their mansions while waving flags and declaring themselves 'patriots', giving the word itself a bad name.

He can be proud of his integrity, there are few around these days like him sadly.

[frylock]

11. why do you guys love al qaeda?

[Octafish]

12. That's nothing.

They're just taking the risk out of Democracy.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

13. You do know that the NSA and the CIA are two separate agencies, don't you? N.T.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. They work hand in glove on a multitude of operations

you do realize that ?





CIA and NSA and drones
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/documents-reveal-nsas-extensive-involvement-in-targeted-killing-program/2013/10/16/29775278-3674-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html


Prisim

https://www.google.dk/search?q=NSA+and+CIA+collboration+explained&oq=NSA+and+CIA+collboration+explained&aqs=chrome..69i57.12231j0j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8#q=NSA+and+CIA+collaboration+history&spell=1



In 1978 the NSA and CIA collaborated to create the Special Collection Service (SCS). The purpose of SCS was to deploy well trained agents, along with specialized equipment developed by NSA, on black bag missions. In 1979 the NSA had to destroy one of its listening posts in Iran after the Islamic revolution. In 1986 Ronald Pelton a former NSA employee, was found guilty of espionage on behalf of the Soviet Union.


http://www.topspysecrets.com/nsa-history.html

[2banon]

19. two arms of the intelligence community, what's your point?

multi-arm(ed) intelligence community..... leaving aside rogue agents, factions vs factions competing against each other.. turf wars, fiefdoms, mixed loyalties/agendas, etc etc etc.

[Marr]

21. Right, right-- they've nothing to do with one another.

I don't think they'd even recognize each other if they passed in the hallway.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. I worked as a janitor for the CIA

when I was 17 and had to get a security clearance from the CIA. Long story short ..We also cleaned a NSA data center.

The NSA data center had armed guards with the computers covered up when we cleaned... yeah they don't work together...LOL

[sabrina 1]

25. And we know that they work together, most against the interests of the American people as has

been revealed. Somewhere we lost our Constitutional Rights and so far, not much has been done about it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Tell me again why Snowden and Manning didn't "go through channels".

[gerogie2]

17. Will Dianne Feinstein justify this program also?

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. The CIA guy who revealed the torture

went to prison, then the CIA destroyed the torture tapes and the only one prosecuted in the whole deal was the one

exposed it.

[2banon]

20. Snowden haters keep repeating the fallacy, he should have gone through channels...

duplicitous asshats.

[KoKo]

28. Recommend! How much more of this "Executive Privilege" can be tolerated?

It's not healthy for our country and not wise.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

33. he's come nowhere near as close to Bush and Clinton executive privilege claims and we survived them

so I think we are going to make it, KoKo.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

29. I think you need to read more carefully

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. Obama knew CIA secretly monitored intelligence committee, senator claims

Obama knew CIA secretly monitored intelligence committee, senator claims


A leading US senator has said that President Obama knew of an “unprecedented action” taken by the CIA against the Senate intelligence committee, which has apparently prompted an inspector general’s inquiry at Langley.

The subtle reference in a Tuesday letter from Senator Mark Udall to Obama, seeking to enlist the president’s help in declassifying a 6,300-page inquiry by the committee into torture carried out by CIA interrogators after 9/11, threatens to plunge the White House into a battle between the agency and its Senate overseers.

McClatchy and the New York Times reported Wednesday that the CIA had secretly monitored computers used by committee staffers preparing the inquiry report, which is said to be scathing not only about the brutality and ineffectiveness of the agency’s interrogation techniques but deception by the CIA to Congress and policymakers about it. The CIA sharply disputes the committee’s findings.

Udall, a Colorado Democrat and one of the CIA’s leading pursuers on the committee, appeared to reference that surreptitious spying on Congress, which Udall said undermined democratic principles.

“As you are aware, the CIA has recently taken unprecedented action against the committee in relation to the internal CIA review and I find these actions to be incredibly troubling for the Committee’s oversight powers and for our democracy,” Udall wrote to Obama on Tuesday.

Independent observers were unaware of a precedent for the CIA spying on the congressional committees established in the 1970s to check abuses by the intelligence agencies.

“In the worst case, it would be a subversion of independent oversight, and a violation of separation of powers,” said Steven Aftergood, an intelligence analyst at the Federation of American Scientists. “It’s potentially very serious.”

The White House declined to comment,


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/obama-cia-senate-intelligence-committee-torture?CMP=twt_gu

[sabrina 1]

32. When is enough, enough? What more is needed to trigger some real investigations, firings

laws strengthened that carry REAL punishments for those who abuse the US Constitution. It's glaringly obvious now that we've witnessed the pattern over and over again, that SOMEONE or some ENTITY is protecting these criminals. Whistle Blowers who expose the abuses, go to jail, over and over while idiots tell Snowden he should have trusted this now thoroughly exposed corrupt system where the messengers become the targets rather than the criminals.

'We've given you a democracy, madam, if you can hold onto it'! Guess he had his doubts and I think he was right. We are not just NOT holding on to it, there are people here willing to GIVE IT AWAY.

[Mojorabbit]

35. This is beyond the pale. nt

[Enthusiast]

38. This certainly undermines the nation's democratic principles.

No wonder the nation has run clear off the tracks. That tends to happen when we abandon principle.

Mr Obama, have you no shame? We wanted you for president because we thought of you as the opposite of Bush. We thought of Bush as a slimy war criminal.

[Marr]

34. Care to expand on that? /nt

[nilesobek]

36. Yeah a lot of Democrats are in on this torture thing.

If one domino falls they all fall? They are completing the coverup.

Do we live under a legitimate government? When you cross that torture line there is no going back. I find it sickening and embarrassing. If a coalition of the most powerful politicians in America conspired to break national and international laws and treaties by willfully organizing a torture program then we have a big problem on our hands.

In WW2 there were isolated incidents of American war crimes and torture but it was never official policy. The interrogators got a lot more from the enemy using other methods. A sadistic idiot thought up all these twisted torture ideas and sold them to our politicians and a president who made his own laws.

[Enthusiast]

37. CIA employees responsible for the surveillance

of the various Senator's computers should be waterboarded. You know, since waterboarding isn't torture..

[Vattel]

40. It's not clear yet whether anything criminal occurred.

The computers were the CIA's and the Congressional staffers were allowed to use them to access CIA files. The suggestion seems to be that the CIA agreed not to monitor the computers, but broke that agreement. Apparently that may be criminal under the Federal Computer fraud and Abuse Act.

[Octafish]

41. Lawmakers who OK'd NSA spying now crying foul about CIA monitoring of their activities

In an ironic turn, the congressional authorities who have staunchly defended the National Security Agency's widespread spying operations are now crying foul after having been spied on by another branch of U.S. intelligence.

SOURCE: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/03/05-6

[G_j]

42. spying on American citizens is fine

as long as it's not them..

[Octafish]

46. What President Truman wrote a month after Dallas...

Harry Truman Writes:
Limit CIA Role
To Intelligence

By Harry S Truman
The Washington Post, December 22, 1963 - page A11

INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 — I think it has become necessary to take another look at the purpose and operations of our Central Intelligence Agency—CIA. At least, I would like to submit here the original reason why I thought it necessary to organize this Agency during my Administration, what I expected it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of the President.

I think it is fairly obvious that by and large a President's performance in office is as effective as the information he has and the information he gets. That is to say, that assuming the President himself possesses a knowledge of our history, a sensitive understanding of our institutions, and an insight into the needs and aspirations of the people, he needs to have available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute information on what is going on everywhere in the world, and particularly of the trends and developments in all the danger spots in the contest between East and West. This is an immense task and requires a special kind of an intelligence facility.

Of course, every President has available to him all the information gathered by the many intelligence agencies already in existence. The Departments of State, Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly engaged in extensive information gathering and have done excellent work.

But their collective information reached the President all too frequently in conflicting conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended to be slanted to conform to established positions of a given department. This becomes confusing and what's worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President in reaching the right decisions.

Therefore, I decided to set up a special organization charged with the collection of all intelligence reports from every available source, and to have those reports reach me as President without department “treatment” or interpretations.

I wanted and needed the information in its “natural raw” state and in as comprehensive a volume as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But the most important thing about this move was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisions—and I thought it was necessary that the President do his own thinking and evaluating.

Since the responsibility for decision making was his—then he had to be sure that no information is kept from him for whatever reason at the discretion of any one department or agency, or that unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always those who would want to shield a President from bad news or misjudgments to spare him from being “upset.”

For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded our difficulties in several explosive areas.

I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue—and a subject for cold war enemy propaganda.

With all the nonsense put out by Communist propaganda about “Yankee imperialism,” “exploitive capitalism,” “war-mongering,” “monopolists,” in their name-calling assault on the West, the last thing we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as something akin to a subverting influence in the affairs of other people.

I well knew the first temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the highest character, patriotism and integrity—and I assume this is true of all those who continue in charge.

But there are now some searching questions that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as the intelligence arm of the President, and that whatever else it can properly perform in that special field—and that its operational duties be terminated or properly used elsewhere.

We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.

SOURCE: http://www.maebrussell.com/Prouty/Harry%20Truman's%20CIA%20article.html

For some reason, Allen Dulles did all he could to get a "retraction," even lying about it.

Something else President Truman said:

"I never would have agreed to the formulation of the Central Intelligence Agency back in forty-seven, if I had known it would become the American Gestapo."

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. Tice's story on the NSA is not in doubt now

I know its the CIA story here but hey they work hand in glove.



ORIGINAL NSA WHISTLEBLOWER: I Saw The Order To Wiretap Barack Obama In 2004

Russ Tice worked as an offensive National Security Agency (NSA) analyst from 2002 to 2005, before becoming a source for this Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times article exposing NSA domestic spying.
This week he appeared on the Boiling Frogs Show and detailed how he had his hands "in the nitty-gritty, the nuts and bolts" during his 20 years as a U.S. intelligence analyst.

Tice claimed that he held NSA wiretap orders targeting numerous members of the U.S. government, including one for a young senator from Illinois named Barack Obama.

"In the summer of 2004, one of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with a forty-some-year-old senator from Illinois. You wouldn't happen to know where that guy lives now would you? It's a big White House in Washington D.C. That's who the NSA went after. That's the President of the United States now."

Tice added that he also saw orders to spy on Hillary Clinton, Senators John McCain and Diane Feinstein, then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, Gen. David Petraeus, and a current Supreme Court Justice.

That sounds like a lot of abuse of the rules that govern NSA domestic spying. And that's exactly what Tice is claiming.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nsa-spied-on-barack-obama-2004-russ-tice-2013-6#ixzz2vBpZ4dlq

[Octafish]

47. No doubt about Tice. What else, besides blackmail, does one use secret information on politicians?

DU was talking about TICE and NSA spying back then.

4 t 4:

Russell Tice

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4883922


1776 Forever:

Raw Story - Whistleblower: NSA spied on everyone, targeted journalists

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x418731


Robert Paulsen:

Are you one of the 8 million Americans listed in Main Core? This is the 21st century Rex 84!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3310871

From an important OP: Snowden findings corroborated by second whistleblower

[randome]

44. What a kerfuffle.

The committee determined earlier this year that the CIA monitored computers – in possible violation of an agreement against doing so – that the agency had provided to intelligence committee staff in a secure room at CIA headquarters that the agency insisted they use to review millions of pages of top-secret reports, cables and other documents, according to people with knowledge.

Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, a panel member, apparently was referring to the monitoring when he asked CIA Director John Brennan at a Jan. 29 hearing if provisions of the Federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act “apply to the CIA? Seems to me that’s a yes or no answer.”

Brennan replied that he’d have to get back to Wyden after looking into “what the act actually calls for and it’s applicability to CIA’s authorities.”

The law makes it a criminal act for someone to intentionally access a computer without authorization or to go beyond what they’re allowed to access.

People familiar with the issue said it wasn’t clear whether the monitoring violated any law or administrative regulations.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/04/220161/cia-monitoring-of-senate-computers.html#storylink=cpy

The headline is a trifle scare-mongering. Granted, if the CIA is found guilty of something, let the chips fall where they may. But so far nothing sounds clear about this.

And how stupid do you have to be to only review documents in a 'special' CIA room and not assume they were being monitored?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Aerows]

48. There are just no lengths that you won't go to

to defend spying, are there? Of course you are going to drag out the whole "it's not a big deal, and they probably aren't guilty of anything" argument. What's next, "we knew about this already" and "everybody does it"?

[randome]

50. I said 'let the chips fall where they may'.

That doesn't sound like I'm trying to justify anything.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[bobduca]

45. Kick

fuck all the sycophants who defend the NSA's spying.

[spanone]

49. so, who runs/owns this country?