New York high school student suspended for NRA pro-2nd Amendment T-shirt

[SecularMotion]

A high school student in upstate New York was suspended for wearing an NRA T-shirt that touted the second amendment after he refused to turn it inside out or cover the words with duct tape.

Shane Kinney, a 16-year-old sophomore from Grand Island, located between Niagara Falls and Buffalo, served a one-day, in-school suspension Monday after he refused last Friday to turn his T-shirt inside out at the request of the vice principal at Grand Island High School. The shirt was emblazoned with the NRA logo and the words, “2nd Amendment Shall not be Infringed” across the back.

“Mr. Lauria [the vice principal] told me I had to either turn the shirt inside out or put duct tape over the words,” Shane Kinney told FoxNews.com. “I told them that I wasn’t going to do it. I had to sit in the suspension room and eat lunch alone until my father brought me a new shirt to school.”

Kinney, a card-carrying member of the NRA along with his parents, said he had worn the shirt to school before, along with others that were similar, and had been asked to put duct tape over the writing. He said he complied because he didn’t want to make waves.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/13/new-york-high-school-suspended-for-nra-pro-2nd-amendment-t-shirt/?intcmp=latestnews

[Paladin]

1. Maybe Mitch McConnell will present this kid with an NRA musket..... (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

2. I wonder if a student wore a T-shirt listing the Bill of Rights in its entirety,

would the school make him or her place duct tape only over the Second Amendment?

[Lizzie Poppet]

11. A very good question.

For some, the Second Amendment is the unwelcome houseguest of the Bill of Rights.

I (kinda sorta) see why the school did this. In the climate of fear that's been foisted off on us, such a message on a shirt would cause a portion of the students (and more to the point, a portion of their parents) to feel uncomfortable. Those folks don't like any reminder that guns exist and that many Americans have them. Based on strict probabilities, this fear isn't particularly rational. But fear's an emotion, not a probabilistic analysis. It's not it's "job" to be rational. And emotions are still a legitimate concern...

[Lost_Count]

15. The more interesting experiment would be to get 10 kids...

... and have each of them wear a shirt with one amendment on it, I-X , and see who gets sent home.

[frylock]

37. i wonder if a student wore a t-shirt without the nra logo..

and the shirt merely showed the text of 2A if he would have been suspended.

[Nye Bevan]

54. From the story, it sounds that the student was asked to duct-tape over the words, not the logo.

If it had been the other way around yours would have been a fair question.

[otohara]

3. Good, Now Other Parents Know

to keep their kids away from the Kinney household.

[dilby]

4. Not sure why a school does this.

They have to know it will be on the news and it will only encourage more people to run around in NRA gear and cry how their 1st amendment is being trampled on.

[Blue_Tires]

8. Because if he got away with it

it would escalate and students would push the envelope until finally someone comes in with a "All you (ethnic/religous group) should fucking DIE" -shirt...

[alp227]

17. really? comparing the second amendment to THAT kind of junk?

that's not a logical comparison at all.

[Capt. Obvious]

19. It's almost like

taking away children if their parents smoke.

[Blue_Tires]

22. I've seen cases where the racial message t-shirts have escalated to KKK stuff

there was a big incident in south carolina in the late 90s which pretty much snowballed because "If so-and-so got to wear this yesterday, then I can wear this, then..."

[alp227]

36. again what do these have to do with a 2nd amendment t shirt?

political issues like guns are disagreeable, but the racial messages are way too indefensible for a school setting because schools are supposed to instill values against bigotry.

[hack89]

5. Where do students get the idea that they have the freedom of speech? nt

[Lost_Count]

10. People wonder why the latest generations aren't politically savvy or involved?

It's because of authority figures like this idiot...

[Blue_Tires]

14. Please...That student deserves what he gets and you know it...

If students can't claim first amendment for wearing street gang attire, this stunt won't fly either...

D.C. schools were pulling students wearing t-shirts promoting guns/gun violence back when it was a fad, and this was years before Columbine...

[hack89]

16. So this school has a history of gun violence

and this policy is in place specifically to solve a problem? Or is it merely a broad brushed preemption "just in case"? Is this kid just another pre-criminal that needs to be bought into line?

[Blue_Tires]

20. All this time I thought it was the Dunns and Zimmermans of the world

"bringing pre-criminals into line"...The NRA and the state of Florida as a whole seems to love that aspect of it...

By all means, if you feel that strongly about it, PLEASE take up the case of some student wearing gang colors in school (and there are many to choose from in almost every state) to the USSC and see how well the First Amendment protects them...

[hack89]

21. Schools with a gang problem have justification

schools without do not. Not a complicated choice. What justification does the school have for banning a NRA shirt beside "because"?

Research the legal concept of strict scrutiny - it will make more sense.

[Blue_Tires]

23. ok, so why?

even IF a school has a gang problem (and you can find plenty of cases where schools didn't have gang problems AND/OR the definition of 'gang attire' was loosely interpreted), WHY wouldn't the first amendment cover them?

Nevermind the fact that even if someone is in gang attire but is doing nothing wrong, isn't that in your own words judging a "pre-criminal"? (you like that term when it suits you, but not when Zimmerman acts as fucking judge-jury-executioner)

[hack89]

24. Reasonable balance between rights and safety

now explain why a NRA shirt represents anything more than an offensive personal opinion? Would you support the school banning pro-choice or pro-gay marriage tee-shirts?

Nothing pre- about Zimmerman. He is a criminal and should be in prison.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Schools do ban pro-choice and pro-gay marriage tee shirts. All the time

Those kinds of rules are written into contracts the students and parents must sign.

That kind of inflammatory garment is not allowed. Rightly so. The students are required by law to be there and allowing bullshit tee shirts like that which stir up certain populations against each other would be really stupid behavior on the part of the school administrators.

[hack89]

30. At least they are well conditioned to take their place in the workspace.

compliant, conforming workers are what the 1% want.

[riderinthestorm]

32. At work you can quit. You can't do that in school. You are forced to be there

So the school is doing what it has to in order to keep the peace.

I don't have a problem with that.

[hack89]

35. Ok - I have always had a strong anti-authoritarian streak in me

which was certainly heightened by the small minded mini-dictators that ran my high school.

Peace.

[riderinthestorm]

41. Peace!

[Blue_Tires]

29. Reasonable balance between rights and safety?

ok, fair enough...

I'm clearly not schooled in the nuances of the legal world (this is the part where you have a good laugh); I just don't know why the gun t-shirt bans in D.C. (for example) were OK, while banning an NRA slogan shirt isn't OK...As far as the law/First Amendment is concerned, aren't they the same thing?

[hack89]

33. DC has a horrific problem with criminal gun violence

so bans on attire glorifying gangs and guns may make sense and could be legally justified. What problem does an upstate NY high school have that makes a NRA tee-shirt such a threat? Simple question.

[Blue_Tires]

42. I don't live in, nor have I ever been to upstate NY

so maybe a DUer who lives around there can provide better insight...

I just gave the school the BOD because I've seen the types of clothing banned in places where I have lived...

FWIW, for a long time gangs would frequently "hide" themselves in sports team hats/jerseys/apparel, so the definition of 'gang attire' REALLY got stretched...Schools still didn't seem to have any legal hurdles, though...

[hack89]

43. It just pisses me off that no actual thought goes into many such bans

it is merely school officials avoiding "uncomfortable" situations. They are mindlessly taking the easy way out.

[Vashta Nerada]

6. He's got no sympathy from me.

[AnalystInParadise]

59. LMFAO

I would not think he would. He has a ton of sympathy from me and it has nothing to do with guns. It has to do with yet another school pushing zero tolerance bullshit. Ironic that schools which are places of learning and free thoughts seem to be so ready to take away free thought they don't like. The Doctor would not approve.

[Capt. Obvious]

7. Good

[Lost_Count]

9. Ethically the school should have to formally apologize...

Legally, I don't have a good feel where the court cases have been going recently. Everything from "Bong hits for Jesus" to "I heart boobies" to the American flags seems to get a different response from a different court.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when the principal tries to explain why that's not permitted.

[riderinthestorm]

12. I'm sure its in the school contract parents and students must sign every year

Its pretty mandatory now at most schools and they include some strict guidelines on appropriate clothing: no spaghetti straps or short skirts/shorts for girls, no hanging pants for boys, no "inflammatory" tee shirts etc.

I'm absolutely certain this school has this is writing. Its very common.

Sounds like this teen's worn the tee shirt before and complied with covering it up. This time he didn't and got a suspension.

If you do the crime... be prepared to do the time.

[Lost_Count]

13. Most likely...

The concern is that you have a generation that has no concept of dealing with being uncomfortable or solving problems.

It seems that everything is pushed off until adulthood and then we wonder why they fail.

[alp227]

18. yeah, and these kids don't want to be told they're wrong,

but that's besides the point about the constitutionality of punishing Shane Kinney for his T shirt.

[riderinthestorm]

31. Those kids are mandated to be there by law. So the school has to deal with them daily

If you had a ton of inflammatory messages on tee shirts every day, there would be issues at school, just like if there were gang signs.

But unlike work, you can't "quit". You are forced to stay.

So the school makes rules and enforces them for everyone. I don't think its unreasonable.

[Lost_Count]

47. The key word is inflammatory...

You can't even apply a reasonableness standard to things anymore because everyone is such a moron when it comes to this.

The idea that a shirt with the text of the guiding legal document for this country is "inflammatory" is laughable. If it is, then the problem lies with the sensitive souls who are bothered by it and not the shirt or the text.

They do have to stay and while they are forced to stay they should learn to deal with things that make them uncomfortable. We are raising a generation of special snowflakes that are going to get dropped square on their asses in a few years/months and will then proceed to fail spectacularly because no one gives a shit about them anymore and they have no experience to draw upon for the first time they see something "icky."

[riderinthestorm]

50. Have you looked at the pics? Its 2 crossed rifles emblazened across the front

There's no way a school is going to allow that especially with the school shootings that keep happening

[Lost_Count]

51. I just don't understand it...

Are the rifles going to leap off of the shirt and start shooting wildly?

Are they concerned that other kids will see them and take up arms?

Are they of the belief that if the kid was going to shoot up the school that he would not do so if he can't wear this specific shirt?

It just reeks of an overly emotional over reaction that fails at the slightest application of logic. Intellectual laziness...

In the end, the answer is that it makes someone feel "icky" and apparently that is enough today. I weep for the future...

[NutmegYankee]

57. If wearing a tee shirt quoting the Bill of rights is inflammatory, this Nation is fucked!

It's the freaking Bill of rights!

[riderinthestorm]

60. That's not what got him suspended. Did you read the story?

It was the picture of the guns on the front.

In this age of school shootings, there isn't a school in the US that's going to let that go.

[LittleBlue]

25. Dumb rule. The idiot school gave him what he wanted

Now instead of a few hundred students seeing his message, millions will see it through the news and he becomes a free speech martyr

The school is definitely wrong here, morally speaking.

[madinmaryland]

26. If he had only had the 2nd Amendment listed on his shirt, there should have been no reason to ban it

But he added a "gang symbol" (i.e. the NRA Logo), and that to me pushed it over the edge.

[frylock]

38. exactly, and you can bet is was to be deliberately provacative

[30cal]

27. If it had a photo of a firearm on the shirt I can see why a school would .

Other than that it's just part of the bill of rights.

Or if it mentioned a threat (from my cold dead hands kind of thing)

[riderinthestorm]

40. It does have a photo of a gun on it and the gun was the problem with the shirt

"They said it was the guns," said Mr. Kinney, noting the NRA emblem over crossed rifles adorning the shirt.

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local/2014/03/11/parents-believe-school-over-reacted-to-nra-shirt/6306507/

[30cal]

45. Just looked at the shirt and I agree with the school , that is displaying a firearm

The parents should know better than to allow him to wear a shirt like that to school.

I think if more DU posters who defend his right to wear it would look at the shirt they would change their minds.

[riderinthestorm]

49. Yup. agreed nt

[Lost_Count]

58. I refer you to post 51...

I still don't get it.

[alp227]

34. local non FNC source

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local/2014/03/11/parents-believe-school-over-reacted-to-nra-shirt/6306507/

[11 Bravo]

39. Attention-seeking little fuckhead to appear on FauxNews in 3 ... 2 ... 1...

I'm guessing Fox and Friends, but Hannity also loves to flog this kind of crap.

[MicaelS]

44. Schools do stupid shit, they should suffer the consequences.

If I was the parent, I'd sue the shit out of them. The only way to put an end to this Zero Tolerance bullshit is sue the fuckers.

[11 Bravo]

48. I'm not familiar with the school district, but in the district where I have taught for almost ...

40 years it is impermissible to wear clothing depicting a firearm. Students know this, and sign a "Student Rights and Responsibilities" document attesting to their willingness to abide by the rules.
For now I'm sticking with "attention-seeking little fuckhead".

[frylock]

55. and you'd be laughed out of the court

Court rules for high school that asked students to remove flag shirts

[Ilsa]

46. Dress codes usually cover this.

Lots of schools don't allow promotion of political statements. This shouldn't be allowed any more than a anti-choice or pro-choice T-shirt.

[Maedhros]

52. Personally, I think we should encourage students to make political statements.

We need to teach them how to be active participants in democracy.

[petronius]

53. My reply to this thread from the GC & RKBA Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=139745

petronius (21,795 posts)
5. The dress code in this school district is pretty brief, and does not appear to

mention depictions of firearms nor political statements. (Unless there is greater specificity in those periodic lists.)

http://www.k12.ginet.org/policies.cfm?printme=270&printpage=1

I would call it an irrational stretch to claim that a depiction of a rifle as a component of the logo of a well-known political advocacy group would fall under "inappropriate" or under "encourage other illegal or violent activities."

The district superintendent's statement says that "no student was disciplined for wearing a shirt expressing a position on the NRA or gun control." Rather, I imagine the student was disciplined for 'insubordination' - i.e., not obeying an illogical and arbitrary extension of the dress code (or perhaps it never happened at all).

Based on the events as described by the student, my sense would be that the school administration acted in an arbitrary and ill-considered manner...

[SecularMotion]

56. Kick