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kpete

(71,986 posts)
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:59 AM Mar 2014

FIRST LOOK: The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidency’s Role in Torture for Years

Absolutely brilliant and extraordinarily authoritative! I'm talking about Marcy Wheeler's debut article over at The / / Intercept, published just over an hour ago. Once again, if you have any questions as to why Newsweek refers to Ms. Wheeler as, "The Woman Who Knows The N.S.A.'s Secrets" (and the secrets of our entire security state, including the Central Intelligence Agency), they'll be answered in your first read of this exceptionally powerful, fact-filled, incredibly well-researched article..


The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidency’s Role in Torture for Years
By Marcy Wheeler
The / / Intercept
Mar 13, 2014, 4:18 PM EDT

The fight between the CIA and the Senate Intelligence Committee over the Committee’s Torture Report – which Dan Froomkin covered here – has now zeroed in on the White House.

Did the White House order the CIA to withdraw 920 documents from a server made available to Committee staffers, as Senator Dianne Feinstein says the agency claimed in 2010? Were those documents – perhaps thousands of them – pulled in deference to a White House claim of executive privilege, as Senator Mark Udall and then CIA General Counsel Stephen Preston suggested last fall? And is the White House continuing to withhold 9,000 pages of documents without invoking privilege, as McClatchy reported yesterday?

We can be sure about one thing: The Obama White House has covered up the Bush presidency’s role in the torture program for years. Specifically, from 2009 to 2012, the administration went to extraordinary lengths to keep a single short phrase, describing President Bush’s authorization of the torture program, secret.

......................


Some time before October 29, 2009, then National Security Advisor Jim Jones filed an ex parte classified declaration with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, in response to a FOIA request by the ACLU seeking documents related to the torture program. In it, Jones argued that the CIA should not be forced to disclose the “source of the CIA’s authority,” as referenced in the title of a document providing “Guidelines for Interrogations” and signed by then CIA Director George Tenet. That document was cited in two Justice Department memos at issue in the FOIA. Jones claimed that “source of authority” constituted an intelligence method that needed to be protected…


The Obama Administration successfully appealed a judge’s ruling to release the redacted part of this title describing under what authorities torture was conducted. Document obtained by ACLU under FOIA


..........


MORE:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/13/president-obama-covering-presidencys-role-torture-4-years/http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/13/1284526/-Wheeler-s-Debut-The-White-House-Has-Been-Covering-Up-the-Presidency-s-Role-in-Torture-for-Yearshttps://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/13/president-obama-covering-presidencys-role-torture-4-years/
130 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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FIRST LOOK: The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidency’s Role in Torture for Years (Original Post) kpete Mar 2014 OP
Why would I be interested in the RW Libertarian opinion on the "White House"? tridim Mar 2014 #1
Marcy Wheeler? kpete Mar 2014 #2
First Look is a RW Libertarian rag. tridim Mar 2014 #3
Actually, it's investigative journalism. Fawke Em Mar 2014 #24
lol tridim Mar 2014 #36
and McClatchy? reddread Mar 2014 #34
Yep, libertarian bullshit.. Cha Mar 2014 #109
Didn't she used to blog at WaterCatPond? AAO Mar 2014 #115
Are you suggesting you don't want to know if it is accurate or not? n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #5
It's easier to dismiss out of hand than to use critical thought. morningfog Mar 2014 #6
What I always hope for when Republicans come through this website is that some will Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #10
Double Ditto Here!!! n/t mazzarro Mar 2014 #18
This is the new way to dismiss facts, question the source. Point over there! sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #73
They've adopted the RWers tactic to dismiss facts. OnyxCollie Mar 2014 #88
I have an answer to your question! Here is their "reliable" source: cui bono Mar 2014 #93
Thanks, so that is why I never receive an answer to my question. I will continue to ask the question sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #116
Whitehouse.gov for the nonce Fumesucker Mar 2014 #111
No, I know Libertarians aren't honest. tridim Mar 2014 #7
Ok. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #12
It's like debating a child. OnyxCollie Mar 2014 #21
namecalling Enrique Mar 2014 #13
I'm on offense, pal. tridim Mar 2014 #17
No, you are always offensive bobduca Mar 2014 #64
Especially when something sheds a bad light on the Obama Admin. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2014 #96
Can you point out the facts in the actual story that are wrong? SomethingFishy Mar 2014 #126
Yes, by all means. Attack the messenger and ignore the message.... truth2power Mar 2014 #32
I thought so too. But started realizing some time ago truedelphi Mar 2014 #117
Care about America?? pocoloco Mar 2014 #47
Tridim,,,,Seems you are becoming Cryptoad Mar 2014 #48
Well... We Wouldn't Want Any Inconvenient Truths To Ruin Your day... WillyT Mar 2014 #65
Marcy Wheeler is a Libertarian?? Since when? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #70
How about saying something on the subject instead of using the old attack the messenger tactic? cui bono Mar 2014 #91
Jesus Christ fascisthunter Mar 2014 #92
You're a partisan who cares about winning over getting to the truth--that much is clear. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2014 #94
Recommend. morningfog Mar 2014 #4
K&R DeSwiss Mar 2014 #8
Anything to make it appear Obama actually authorized the torture. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #9
Wait for it, it's coming. ProSense Mar 2014 #22
They don't want him impeached ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #26
They have successfully blurred the timeline underpants Mar 2014 #78
“Nothing could be further from the truth. We wouldn’t do that.” - John Brennan jsr Mar 2014 #11
Omidyar's got it figured out. Outrage sells...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #14
But doing the outrageous brings in the big bucks and the power with way less heat. TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #103
FIRST LOOK at old news. ucrdem Mar 2014 #15
torture never gets old reddread Mar 2014 #35
no statute of limitations on murder questionseverything Mar 2014 #102
Libertarianism is not workable as a government or societal system but the information Lint Head Mar 2014 #16
I'm not following you - there was no mention of Libertarianism in the article or the OP. Maedhros Mar 2014 #86
So that libertarianism is brought up. sibelian Mar 2014 #120
history will not be as kind to obama as obama has been to bush xiamiam Mar 2014 #19
Nonsense. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #29
^ 100% pure neo-DU DERP. nt tridim Mar 2014 #31
Do people really lack critical thinking? ProSense Mar 2014 #20
by critical thinking, you mean... Enrique Mar 2014 #23
"thinking which ALWAYS leads to the conclusion that Obama is right." ProSense Mar 2014 #25
that would be equally faulty thinking Enrique Mar 2014 #28
...and thinking rolling, laughing smilies gets ones Fawke Em Mar 2014 #27
The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidency’s Role in Torture for Years. OnyxCollie Mar 2014 #30
Thank you Onyx..bookmarking. Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #37
well put together G_j Mar 2014 #41
"provide literally millions of pages of operational cables, internal emails, memos..." ProSense Mar 2014 #42
Millions of pages, huh? OnyxCollie Mar 2014 #43
Marking this for future reference. zeemike Mar 2014 #44
Thank you. Solly Mack Mar 2014 #49
Thank you for these links. woo me with science Mar 2014 #52
Thank you...should be an original post. JEB Mar 2014 #58
Thank you. OnyxCollie Mar 2014 #60
Somehow missed it. JEB Mar 2014 #66
Well I just rec'd that. And someone else did at the same time because it jumped up 2. cui bono Mar 2014 #97
Agree you should repost as an OP. woo me with science Mar 2014 #122
Great post . Bookmarked! Thanks n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #68
Great Job documenting Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #71
''I will not permit criminalization of policy issues.'' Octafish Mar 2014 #123
pro, if this is the trial balloon you are sending up questionseverything Mar 2014 #100
Shouldn't this be in the creative speculation group n/t albino65 Mar 2014 #33
amazing what a little spring cleaning can accomplish reddread Mar 2014 #38
49 responses and i can only see 13...ignore is a good blood pressure regulator..nt xiamiam Mar 2014 #50
You have excellent taste re your ignore list! (Same as mine) I also only see 13 responses. Divernan Mar 2014 #53
i can tell you what you missed reddread Mar 2014 #55
this!!!! bobduca Mar 2014 #59
For trolls and zombies...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #67
Take your own advice bobduca Mar 2014 #72
Was going suggest the same to you. Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #74
Your posts suck even more bobduca Mar 2014 #79
? Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #83
Smoochy, moochy...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #75
Indeed, much quieter. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #95
refusing to prosecute v covering up -- what's the meaningful diff stupidicus Mar 2014 #39
if they can overlook accessory to kidnapping Americans in Iran reddread Mar 2014 #45
indeed stupidicus Mar 2014 #56
"Smirk" - xCommander AWOL Bush (R) & Dickie 'Five-Military-Deferments' Cheney (R) Berlum Mar 2014 #40
K&R. Great article, it would be nice if the mainstream press does their job for once and quinnox Mar 2014 #46
How do you know John Brennan is lying? 90-percent Mar 2014 #51
K & R Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #54
k and r nt Mojorabbit Mar 2014 #57
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2014 #61
Still looking forward to holding the party of personal responibility... JEB Mar 2014 #62
K&R bobduca Mar 2014 #63
Rec'd n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #69
But..but...look at all the CIA torturers now in prison...oh...wait..we must look forward. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #76
Our country (I suspect) has been secretly governed by the CIA, the NSA, and other Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #77
yes, recent news makes one more sure who.. grasswire Mar 2014 #87
Something like this ex-CIA agent's admission? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #106
I think we've known this all along. Autumn Mar 2014 #80
I have not read this piece by Marcy Wheeler. How many of you in the above postings have.... northoftheborder Mar 2014 #81
Short answer, there's no there there. ucrdem Mar 2014 #84
thanks! northoftheborder Mar 2014 #85
So you take one biased recommendation rather than check it out for yourself? cui bono Mar 2014 #104
this thread has more than 50 recs grasswire Mar 2014 #90
Does one really need to be told what they should or should not read? Autumn Mar 2014 #99
I read the whole thing and Dan Froomkin's article and found it worthwhile info... KoKo Mar 2014 #105
Marcy is good read and so good to see Dan Froomkin back KoKo Mar 2014 #82
YES! grasswire Mar 2014 #89
K&R#59 n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #98
US Torture Documents from The National Security Archive/Torturing Democracy (I trust that site) bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #101
, blkmusclmachine Mar 2014 #107
To the deniers: tea and oranges Mar 2014 #108
You have no idea how much better the site reads without all the dead weight that now populates Maedhros Mar 2014 #113
I'm looking forward to that tea and oranges Mar 2014 #114
K&R woo me with science Mar 2014 #110
swift kick reddread Mar 2014 #112
Marcy Wheeler is a libertarian who is blaming Obama for crimes of the Bush administration pnwmom Mar 2014 #118
....! KoKo Mar 2014 #119
kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #121
kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #124
Kick n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #125
The article and the subject manner are far more intricate nilesobek Mar 2014 #127
kick malokvale77 Mar 2014 #128
Kick n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #129
^ bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #130

tridim

(45,358 posts)
1. Why would I be interested in the RW Libertarian opinion on the "White House"?
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:16 AM
Mar 2014

I'm a Democrat on a Democratic Forum.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
24. Actually, it's investigative journalism.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:11 AM
Mar 2014

The one of its founders might or might not be libertarian has nothing to do with gathering factual information.

Cha

(297,180 posts)
109. Yep, libertarian bullshit..
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:07 PM
Mar 2014
"I’m making popcorn here at Lizard Headquarters, because the libertarians at PandoDaily are taking shots at the libertarians at First Look, and we’re all winners for it: Pierre Omidyar Co-Funded Ukraine Revolution Groups With US Government, Documents Show."


..just hours after last weekend’s ouster of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, one of Pierre Omidyar’s newest hires at national security blog “The Intercept,” was already digging for the truth.

Wheeler is partly correct. Pando has confirmed that the American government - in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) - played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

But that’s not the shocking part.

What’s shocking is the name of the billionaire who co-invested with the US government (or as Wheeler put it: the “dark force” acting on behalf of “Pax Americana”).

Step out of the shadows…. Wheeler’s boss, Pierre Omidyar.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43123_The_Mysterious_Deep_Force_Behind_the_Coup_in_Ukraine_First_Look_Money_Guy_Pierre_Omidyar

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
10. What I always hope for when Republicans come through this website is that some will
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:29 AM
Mar 2014

read an OP that reveals an agenda by the Republican party...said Republican will check it
out and can see for themselves their being duped.

That's how an Independent is born, imo.

As a Democrat, I want to learn when I have been misled too by my own party.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
73. This is the new way to dismiss facts, question the source. Point over there!
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:58 AM
Mar 2014

As more and more inconvenient facts emerge, more and more sources are attacked. Leaving me to ask, now several times, 'what sources ARE credible'?? So far I have not received an answer to that question.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
88. They've adopted the RWers tactic to dismiss facts.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:56 PM
Mar 2014

RWers blame the "liberal" media.

The President's most ardent fans blame the "liberal" "libertarian" media.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
116. Thanks, so that is why I never receive an answer to my question. I will continue to ask the question
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:50 AM
Mar 2014

though, every time I see the now familiar tactic. I do understand though WHY I have yet to receive an answer. Thanks

tridim

(45,358 posts)
17. I'm on offense, pal.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:48 AM
Mar 2014

Get used to it.

Pointing out the Libertarian-ness of Greenwalds's little blog is not name-calling, it's the truth.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
126. Can you point out the facts in the actual story that are wrong?
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:44 PM
Mar 2014

With a link to a liberal site?

"pointing out the Libertarian-ness of Greenwalds little blog" means nothing to me. I happen to agree with libertarians on a couple of issues. Legalization and keeping the government out of the bedroom are two right off the top of my head.
I also disagree with them on many things as well.
However I do not dismiss what they say because it was them who said it. I believe that's called throwing the baby out with the bath water.

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
32. Yes, by all means. Attack the messenger and ignore the message....
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:28 AM
Mar 2014

I thought Democrats were supposed to be the smarter ones.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
117. I thought so too. But started realizing some time ago
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 05:28 AM
Mar 2014

that loyalists on either side of the aisle are the same. All they want is for those they revere to be seen as being right all the time.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
65. Well... We Wouldn't Want Any Inconvenient Truths To Ruin Your day...
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:49 AM
Mar 2014

President Obama is wonderful...

Democrats are good, and kind, thoughtful, and patient...

We are the world... we are the children...


 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
8. K&R
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:25 AM
Mar 2014
- I've noticed that when you're always looking forward, you can never see what happened in the past very well......

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
9. Anything to make it appear Obama actually authorized the torture.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:28 AM
Mar 2014

Kind of silly given Bush admits he authorized the "enhanced interrogation techniques".

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
22. Wait for it, it's coming.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:09 AM
Mar 2014

"Anything to make it appear Obama actually authorized the torture."

They'll soon be calling for Obama's impeachment because his support for an ongoing Senate investigation of Bush's torture program is "too little, too late."



JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
26. They don't want him impeached ...
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:13 AM
Mar 2014

... because then they'd have to attack Biden.

And they can't blame Biden for anything Bush did, or for anything Obama did or didn't do.

Totally ruins the outrage landscape.

TheKentuckian

(25,023 posts)
103. But doing the outrageous brings in the big bucks and the power with way less heat.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:55 PM
Mar 2014

If you aren't outraged you are either an idiot or getting a piece of the action.

Or sitting pretty, not having to deal with the downside. Some folks aren't worried about shit because whatever happens it is no skin off their nose, it is all just amusement.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
15. FIRST LOOK at old news.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:37 AM
Mar 2014
Some time before October 29, 2009 . . .


But on e-bay everything old is new again.

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
16. Libertarianism is not workable as a government or societal system but the information
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:39 AM
Mar 2014

is credible and anyone with who has followed what was done to America in using the fear of terrorism knows GWB should be in jail.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
86. I'm not following you - there was no mention of Libertarianism in the article or the OP.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:28 PM
Mar 2014

Why are you bringing up Libertarianism?

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
120. So that libertarianism is brought up.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 10:24 AM
Mar 2014

It bears no relation to the OP at all. It's a billboard post.

xiamiam

(4,906 posts)
19. history will not be as kind to obama as obama has been to bush
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:03 AM
Mar 2014

he chose the wrong side while the majority on the entire planet saw this for the stench that it is.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
29. Nonsense.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:17 AM
Mar 2014

Stopping the 2nd great depression and endling the Iraq war would be enough to put him in the top teir on their own.

Saving the US auto industry, getting the ACA passed, ending DADT, and soon DOMA, and ending Afghanistan.

History will be kind to Obama because he's earned it.

The disgruntled left will remain angry, but that's a given.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
20. Do people really lack critical thinking?
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:06 AM
Mar 2014

"FIRST LOOK: The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidency’s Role in Torture for Years"

The CIA and Senate are in a battle over documents related to an ongoing torture investigation, and people want the most important issue to be Obama, not the investigation.

Like I said before, consider the timeline and the facts.

The removals happened in 2010. It's not hard to believe that there are people at the CIA who don't want this information to come out.

Reading into Senator Feinstein's statement and the timeline: Brennan wasn't head of the CIA when the documents were removed, but interestingly he lost out on the position in Obama's first term because of his support for torture.

Feinstein:

As CIA Director Brennan has stated, the CIA officially agrees with some of our study. But, as has been reported, the CIA disagrees and disputes important parts of it. And this is important: Some of these important parts that the CIA now disputes in our committee study are clearly acknowledged in the CIA’s own Internal Panetta Review.

To say the least, this is puzzling. How can the CIA’s official response to our study stand factually in conflict with its own Internal Review?

Heads will likely roll at the CIA at the conclusion of an investigation into the removal of the documents. It's likely there could be criminal charges. Still, the main purpose of this trampling on the separation of powers is an attempt to hide Bush's torture program.

The report, if as damaging as Feinstein states, should result in war crime prosecutions.

Now here is a key point: The most sought-after documents on torture, ones the CIA is desperate to keep from the public, were created/turned over by Leon Panetta.

Feinstein:

<...>

On March 5, 2009, the committee voted 14-1 to initiate a comprehensive review of the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program. Immediately, we sent a request for documents to all relevant executive branch agencies, chiefly among them the CIA.

The committee’s preference was for the CIA to turn over all responsive documents to the committee’s office, as had been done in previous committee investigations.

Director Panetta proposed an alternative arrangement: to provide literally millions of pages of operational cables, internal emails, memos, and other documents pursuant to the committee’s document requests at a secure location in Northern Virginia. We agreed, but insisted on several conditions and protections to ensure the integrity of this congressional investigation.

Per an exchange of letters in 2009, then-Vice Chairman Bond, then-Director Panetta, and I agreed in an exchange of letters that the CIA was to provide a “stand-alone computer system” with a “network drive” “segregated from CIA networks” for the committee that would only be accessed by information technology personnel at the CIA—who would “not be permitted to” “share information from the system with other (CIA) personnel, except as otherwise authorized by the committee.”

It was this computer network that, notwithstanding our agreement with Director Panetta, was searched by the CIA this past January, and once before which I will later describe.

<...>

There are several reasons why the draft summary of the Panetta Review was brought to our secure spaces at the Hart Building.

Let me list them:

The significance of the Internal Review given disparities between it and the June 2013 CIA response to the committee study. The Internal Panetta Review summary now at the secure committee office in the Hart Building is an especially significant document as it corroborates critical information in the committee’s 6,300-page Study that the CIA’s official response either objects to, denies, minimizes, or ignores.

Unlike the official response, these Panetta Review documents were in agreement with the committee’s findings. That’s what makes them so significant and important to protect.

When the Internal Panetta Review documents disappeared from the committee’s computer system, this suggested once again that the CIA had removed documents already provided to the committee, in violation of CIA agreements and White House assurances that the CIA would cease such activities.

As I have detailed, the CIA has previously withheld and destroyed information about its Detention and Interrogation Program, including its decision in 2005 to destroy interrogation videotapes over the objections of the Bush White House and the Director of National Intelligence. Based on the information described above, there was a need to preserve and protect the Internal Panetta Review in the committee’s own secure spaces.

Now, the Relocation of the Internal Panetta Review was lawful and handled in a manner consistent with its classification. No law prevents the relocation of a document in the committee’s possession from a CIA facility to secure committee offices on Capitol Hill. As I mentioned before, the document was handled and transported in a manner consistent with its classification, redacted appropriately, and it remains secured—with restricted access—in committee spaces.

<...>

I also want to reiterate to my colleagues my desire to have all updates to the committee report completed this month and approved for declassification. We’re not going to stop. I intend to move to have the findings, conclusions and the executive summary of the report sent to the president for declassification and release to the American people. The White House has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification and release.

- more -

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=db84e844-01bb-4eb6-b318-31486374a895

If people are going to claim that Obama is responsible for the CIA removing documents, then why isn't Obama responsible for Panetta providing them in the first place?

What's the theory: Obama gave the Senate the documents so they could confirm torture, and then took them back?

If the President wanted to cover up the issue, there would be no investigation, and no Internal Panetta Review. Anything from the CIA would be cleansed of any damaging evidence. That is clearly not the case.

The issue is who at the CIA engaged in this behavior. People are throwing around Feinstein's and Udall's names to make this about the President when both have reiterated that he fully supports declassifying the report.

Senate confirms Caroline Krass as CIA general counsel

By Greg Miller

The Senate on Thursday voted to confirm Caroline Krass as CIA general counsel...Her confirmation had been held up in part by lawmakers angered by the ongoing dispute between the CIA and the Senate Intelligence Committee over committee’s investigation of the agency’s use of harsh interrogation techniques after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

During her confirmation hearing in December, Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) voted against Krass’s nomination and accused the CIA of refusing to turn over an internal review of the interrogation program ordered by former agency Director Leon E. Panetta. He also pushed for a statement from President Obama indicating support for declassifying the committee’s 6,200-page interrogation report. Obama did so Wednesday, apparently clearing the way for Thursday’s vote to confirm Krass.

Udall let Krass's confirmation move forward Thursday, but he called for new leadership in the CIA's general counsel's office.

"We need to correct the record on the CIA's coercive detention and interrogation program and declassify the Senate Intelligence Committee's exhaustive study of it, Udall said in a statement. "I released my hold on Caroline Krass's nomination today and voted for her to help change the direction of the agency....The president has stated an unequivocal commitment to supporting the declassification of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report. Coloradans expect me to hold him to his word."

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/03/13/senate-confirms-caroline-krass-as-cia-general-counsel/

Roll call: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=2&vote=00076


Enrique

(27,461 posts)
23. by critical thinking, you mean...
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:11 AM
Mar 2014

thinking which ALWAYS leads to the conclusion that Obama is right.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
25. "thinking which ALWAYS leads to the conclusion that Obama is right."
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:12 AM
Mar 2014

As opposed to the idiotic thinking that Obama is always wrong, facts be damned?

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
30. The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidency’s Role in Torture for Years.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:19 AM
Mar 2014

Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.

WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html

MIAMI — It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:

Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.


US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.


Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.

US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.


Why the aversion? To protect Bushco, of course!

US embassy cables: Spanish prosecutor weighs Guantánamo criminal case against US officials
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177

The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.


Eric Holder got the message.

Holder Says He Will Not Permit the Criminalization of Policy Differences
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1

As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.

"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted,"
he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."


Holder: Won't criminalize terror policy disputes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8470942

Associated Press Writer= WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General Eric Holder left open the possibility Thursday to prosecuting former Bush administration officials but ruled out filing charges merely over disagreements about policy.

"I will not permit the criminalization of policy differences," Holder testified before a House Appropriations subcommittee.

"However, it is my responsibility as attorney general to enforce the law. It is my duty to enforce the law. If I see evidence of wrongdoing I will pursue it to the full extent of the law," he said.


~snip~

"It is certainly the intention of this administration not to play hide and seek, or not to release certain things," said Holder. "It is not our intention to try to advance a political agenda or to try to hide things from the American people."


CIA Exhales: 99 Out of 101 Torture Cases Dropped
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/

This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. It’s one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.

Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to “preliminar(ily) review” whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that he’ll pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the “death in custody” of detainees, Holder said.

But just because there’s a further criminal inquiry doesn’t necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holder’s decision on Thursday doesn’t actually end the Justice Department’s review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.

“On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us,” Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. “We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agency’s history.”


How MI5 colluded in my torture: Binyam Mohamed claims British agents fed Moroccan torturers their questions - WORLD EXCLUSIVE
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160238/How-MI5-colluded-torture-Binyam-Mohamed-claims-British-agents-fed-Moroccan-torturers-questions--WORLD-EXCLUSIVE.html#ixzz256BI1FmS

Documents obtained by this newspaper - which were disclosed to Mohamed through a court case he filed in America - show that months after he was taken to Morocco aboard an illegal 'extraordinary rendition' flight by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, MI5 twice gave the CIA details of questions they wanted his interrogators to put to him, together with dossiers of photographs.

At the time, in November 2002, Mohamed was being subject to intense, regular beatings and sessions in which his chief Moroccan torturer, a man he knew as Marwan, slashed his chest and genitals with a scalpel.

~snip~

The revelations will put Foreign Secretary David Miliband under even greater pressure to come clean about British involvement in the rendition and alleged torture of Muslim terror suspects.

Last month his lawyers persuaded the High Court not to allow parts of a judgement that summarised Mohamed's treatment to be published, on the grounds that to do so would jeopardise Britian’s intelligence-sharing relationship with America.


Libya/US: Investigate Death of Former CIA Prisoner
http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/05/11/libyaus-investigate-death-former-cia-prisoner

(New York) – The Libyan authorities should carry out a full and transparent investigation of the reported suicide of the Libyan prisoner Ali Mohamed al-Fakheri, also known as Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, Human Rights Watch said today. Al-Libi, who was held in secret US and Egyptian detention from late 2001 to at least 2005, was found dead in his cell in Abu Salim prison in Tripoli. Human Rights Watch spoke with him briefly in the Tripoli prison on April 27, though he refused to be interviewed.

After his arrest in Pakistan in late 2001, al-Libi was sent by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to Egypt in 2002, under the procedure known as “rendition.” According to a CIA declassified cable and a US Senate report, he was tortured in Egypt and gave false information about a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda that Colin Powell, then the secretary of state, used in his speech to the UN Security Council on the planned war with Iraq. Al-Libi was later held by the CIA in a series of secret prisons in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

~snip~

Al-Libi was returned from US custody to Libya in late 2005 or early 2006 and was detained at Abu Salim prison. The Abu Salim prison authorities told Human Rights Watch in April 2009 that he had been sentenced to life imprisonment by the State Security Court, a court whose trial proceedings fail to conform to international fair trial standards.

Human Rights Watch briefly met with al-Libi on April 27 during a research mission to Libya. He refused to be interviewed, and would say nothing more than: “Where were you when I was being tortured in American jails.” Human Rights Watch has strongly condemned the CIA’s detention program and documented how detainees in CIA custody were abused, but, like other human rights groups, was never granted access to prisoners in CIA custody.


At Guantanamo, a Prison Within a Prison
CIA Has Run a Secret Facility for Some Al Qaeda Detainees, Officials Say
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5918-2004Dec16.html

Within the heavily guarded perimeters of the Defense Department's much-discussed Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, the CIA has maintained a detention facility for valuable al Qaeda captives that has never been mentioned in public, according to military officials and several current and former intelligence officers.

~snip~

Most international terrorism suspects in U.S. custody are held not by the CIA but by the Defense Department at the Guantanamo Bay prison. They are guaranteed access to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and, as a result of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling this year, have the right to challenge their imprisonment in federal courts.

CIA detainees, by contrast, are held under separate rules and far greater secrecy. Under a presidential directive and authorities approved by administration lawyers, the CIA is allowed to capture and hold certain classes of suspects without accounting for them in any public way and without revealing the rules for their treatment. The roster of CIA prisoners is not public, but current and former U.S. intelligence officials say the agency holds the most valuable al Qaeda leaders and many mid-level members with knowledge of the group's logistics, financing and regional operations.


CIA Office of Inspector General report
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/cia_oig_report.pdf

[IMG][/IMG]
p. 15


One of youngest Guantánamo prisoner released
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=4282

Nineteen-year-old Mohamed Jawad has set foot in Afghanistan after seven years in detention making him one of the youngest prisoners to be released from Guantánamo. He is set to sue the US Government in the next couple of months for inhumane treatment and torture in addition to being a minor in detention.

~snip~

Jawad claims his captors tortured him and other prisoners, deprived them of food and sleep. He has described having his hands tied behind his back and being forced to eat by bending over and putting his mouth into a plate of food. He received substantial abuse, including the ‘frequent flier’ treatment which is a form of torture where the victim is shifted from cell to cell. Mohamed was shifted through 152 locations in a week’s time, staying a maximum of 2 hours and 55 seconds in each location.


Government Seeks To Continue Detaining Mohammed Jawad At Guantánamo Despite Lack Of Evidence
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/government-seeks-continue-detaining-mohammed-jawad-guantanamo-despite-lack-evidenc

NEW YORK – After admitting to a federal judge that Guantánamo detainee and American Civil Liberties Union client Mohammed Jawad had been tortured and illegally detained for nearly seven years, the Obama administration today asked the court for permission to continue to detain Jawad while it decides whether to bring a criminal case against him. The request, filed in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, comes after U.S. District Court Judge Ellen S. Huvelle berated government lawyers last week for their inadequate case against Jawad.

Last fall, a military judge in Jawad's Guantánamo military commission proceeding threw out the bulk of the evidence against him finding that it was obtained through torture. Despite that ruling, the Obama administration continued to rely on those same statements in Jawad's habeas corpus challenge before Judge Huvelle until last week when it said it would no longer rely on that evidence. The Afghan Attorney General recently sent a letter to the U.S. government demanding Jawad's return and suggesting he was as young as 12 when he was captured in Afghanistan and illegally rendered from that country nearly seven years ago.

Following his 2002 arrest in Afghanistan for allegedly throwing a grenade at two U.S. soldiers and their interpreter, Jawad was subjected to repeated torture and other mistreatment and to a systematic program of harsh and highly coercive interrogations designed to break him physically and mentally. Jawad tried to commit suicide in his cell by slamming his head repeatedly against the wall.



CIA Office of Inspector General report
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/cia_oig_report.pdf

[IMG][/IMG]
p. 42.


"He Was The Agency": Ex-CIA Analyst Questions Brennan Claim He Couldn’t Stop Waterboarding, Torture
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/2/8/he_was_the_agency_ex_cia#transcript

AMY GOODMAN: That was CIA Director-designate John Brennan being questioned yesterday during his Senate confirmation hearing by Democratic Senator Carl Levin of Michigan.

For more, we’re joined by Melvin Goodman, former CIA and State Department analyst, senior fellow at the Center for International Policy, director of the Center’s National Security Project, his latest book, National Insecurity: The Cost of American Militarism.

Your response to that line of questioning, Mel Goodman?

MELVIN GOODMAN: Well, I think it was very disturbing on a lot of levels. It’s a step backward, for one thing. Former Director Leon Panetta did define waterboarding as torture. The attorney general has defined waterboarding as torture. But John Brennan won’t do so. And also, when John Brennan was a deputy executive assistant to Buzzy Krongard and to George Tenet, remember, he was the cheerleader for some of these onerous policies, particularly renditions and extraordinary renditions. So, for John Brennan today to say he read the Senate committee intelligence report on torture and he learned things he never knew before and that he was shocked with what he learned, this is a case of incredible willful ignorance. He’s been at the top of the CIA and now at the top in the White House—in fact, he’s probably stepping down in becoming the director of the CIA. He has written the manual for targeted killings. He’s written the disposition matrix, which is something out of George Orwell, that allows the president of the United States to pick targets based on evidence that Brennan collects from the CIA, presumably the same kind of evidence that was taken to the country in 2002 and 2003 that allowed the United States to go to war. So, all of this is extremely disturbing about who Brennan is.

JOHN BRENNAN: I did not take steps to stop the CIA’s use of those techniques. I was not in the chain of command of that program. I served as deputy executive director at the time. I had responsibility for overseeing the management of the agency in all of its various functions. And I was aware of the program. I was cc’d on some of those documents. But I had no oversight of it. I wasn’t involved in its creation. I had expressed my personal objections and views to my—some agency colleagues about certain of those EITs, such as waterboarding, nudity and others, where I professed my personal objections to it. But I did not try to stop it, because it was, you know, something that was being done in a different part of the agency under the authority of others, and it was something that was directed by the administration at the time.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Mel Goodman, your response to his answer?

MELVIN GOODMAN: Well, very disturbing for him to say he was in a different part of the agency. He was the agency. He was on the seventh floor of the agency. He was an executive assistant to the director and to the executive secretary of the CIA. He was the one they allowed to go on Sunday morning talk shows to defend renditions, and particularly extraordinary renditions, which involve not only kidnapping people off the streets of Europe and the Middle East and Africa, but sending them to countries where we knew these people would be tortured.


Globalizing Torture: Ahead of Brennan Hearing, International Complicity in CIA Rendition Exposed
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/2/7/globalizing_torture_ahead_of_brennan_hearing#transcript

MARGARET WARNER: So, was Secretary Rice correct today when she called it a vital tool in combating terrorism?

JOHN BRENNAN: I think it’s an absolutely vital tool. I have been intimately familiar now over the past decade with the cases of rendition that the U.S. government has been involved in, and I can say without a doubt that it has been very successful as far as producing intelligence that has saved lives.

MARGARET WARNER: So is it—are you saying, both—in two ways, both in getting terrorists off the streets and also in the interrogation?

JOHN BRENNAN: Yes. The rendition is the practice or the process of rendering somebody from one place to another place. It is moving them. And U.S. government will frequently facilitate that movement from a country to another.

MARGARET WARNER: Why would you not, if this—if you have a suspect who’s a danger to the United States, keep it—keep him in the United States’ custody? Is it because we want another country to do the dirty work?

JOHN BRENNAN: No, I don’t think that’s it at all. Also, I think it’s rather arrogant to think that we’re the only country that respects human rights. I think that we have a lot of assurances from these countries that we hand over terrorists to that they will in fact respect human rights. And there are different ways to gain those assurances. But also, let’s say an individual goes to Egypt, because they’re an Egyptian citizen. And Egyptians then have a longer history in terms of dealing with them, and they have family members and others that they can bring in, in fact, to be part of the whole interrogation process.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was John Brennan speaking to PBS’s Margaret Warner in 2005.

AMY GOODMAN: The report is called "Globalizing Torture." It also identifies 54 foreign governments that aided the United States in these operations. The countries include Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Finland, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malawi, Malaysia, Mauritania, Morocco, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan, Yemen and Zimbabwe.

One country that’s not listed is India, but the report is making headlines there, too, because, for more, we’re joined now by the report’s author, Amrit Singh. She’s senior legal officer at the National Security and Counterterrorism program at the Open Society Justice Initiative. The full name of her new report is "Globalizing Torture: CIA Secret Detention and Extraordinary Rendition." She’s co-author with Jameel Jaffer of the book Administration of Torture: A Documentary Record from Washington to Abu Ghraib and Beyond_. And interestingly, the new torture report has become news in India. The human-rights-secret-detention-amrit-singh">headline in The Times of India reads, quote: "Prime Minister’s Daughter Blows Whistle on 54 Nations that Helped U.S. Detention Programme." Another website headline, their story: "PM’s Daughter Takes on CIA over Torture." That’s right, our guest, Amrit Singh, is the daughter of India’s prime minister, Manmohan Singh.

Amrit Singh, welcome to Democracy Now!

AMRIT SINGH: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: Let’s talk about John Brennan first. He goes to Capitol Hill today for his confirmation hearing. You wrote a piece in the Los Angeles Times. What do you think he should be asked? What do you think of the nomination of John Brennan to be head of the CIA?

AMRIT SINGH: Well, I think John Brennan should be asked what he meant when he said that he was intimately familiar with cases of rendition and that rendition is an absolutely vital tool in combating terrorism, because by the time Brennan made that statement in December of 2005, a number of people had been rendered to foreign governments where they were tortured. By December of 2005, Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery had been rendered to Egypt and subjected to electric shock. By December of 2005, Maher Arar, a Canadian national, had been rendered to Syria and subjected to being locked up in a tiny grave-like cell and beaten with cables. By December 2005, a number of other individuals, including Khalid El-Masri, had been rendered. Khalid El-Masri was captured and kidnapped in Macedonia and transferred to Afghanistan and abused. A recent court decision by the European Court of Human Rights found that Khalid El-Masri’s treatment by the CIA amounted to torture. So I think that John Brennan has a lot of explaining to do as to what exactly he meant.

Globalizing Torture: CIA Secret Detention and Extraordinary Rendition
http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/reports/globalizing-torture-cia-secret-detention-and-extraordinary-rendition

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
42. "provide literally millions of pages of operational cables, internal emails, memos..."
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:05 AM
Mar 2014
Director Panetta proposed an alternative arrangement: to provide literally millions of pages of operational cables, internal emails, memos, and other documents pursuant to the committee’s document requests at a secure location in Northern Virginia.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024662090

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
44. Marking this for future reference.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:11 AM
Mar 2014

And there are people here defending the defense of that...absolutly chilling to think we have those people among us.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
123. ''I will not permit criminalization of policy issues.''
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 02:52 PM
Mar 2014

That's what Poppy and Ollie said during Iran-Contra.

Thank you for the important info. OnyxCollie. KBR.

questionseverything

(9,653 posts)
100. pro, if this is the trial balloon you are sending up
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:33 PM
Mar 2014

The report, if as damaging as Feinstein states, should result in war crime prosecutions. /////////////////////////////////////

I just want you to know , that is all we have ever wanted....

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
38. amazing what a little spring cleaning can accomplish
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:52 AM
Mar 2014

a new record of three in one swatting.
this OP looks one hell of a lot better without the noise and trash talk piling up as high as it was.
highly recommended.
they have nothing productive or informative to offer.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
83. ?
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:59 PM
Mar 2014

I know what you are, but what am I?

Brilliant.

Seriously, you must add me to the list you keep harping about, at once.

 

stupidicus

(2,570 posts)
39. refusing to prosecute v covering up -- what's the meaningful diff
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:54 AM
Mar 2014

as I've been pointing out to my rightwingnut enemies elsewhere since they started whining about his use of executive prerogative/discretion with the ACA, and will remind them again now that the house has passed a bill in an effort to cease and desist with such, this is an example of the same thing.

They should really be all over BHO about prosecuting Bush as domestic and international law would seek to require, no?

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
45. if they can overlook accessory to kidnapping Americans in Iran
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:15 AM
Mar 2014

Stolen elections, sexual harassment, false claims about yellow cake, assassinations and extrajudicial killings,
I dont see what harm there is in a little torture.
Especially if it follows a costly renditioning.
This aint your daddy's habeas corpus ya know.
get a grip, America.

 

stupidicus

(2,570 posts)
56. indeed
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:17 AM
Mar 2014

the examples are many for the selective outrage that has arisen since BHO starting exercising executive privilege

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
46. K&R. Great article, it would be nice if the mainstream press does their job for once and
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:16 AM
Mar 2014

Follow this up.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
51. How do you know John Brennan is lying?
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:36 AM
Mar 2014

When he says; "Nothing could be further from the truth."

-90% Jimmy

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
62. Still looking forward to holding the party of personal responibility...
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:46 AM
Mar 2014

well, responsible. Torture and international treaty breaking (law breaking) followed by zero accountability has damaged our nation beyond repair.

bobduca

(1,763 posts)
63. K&R
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:47 AM
Mar 2014

Looking forward to finding more authoritarian bots for my ignore list! Here trolly trolly trollies!

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
77. Our country (I suspect) has been secretly governed by the CIA, the NSA, and other
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:33 PM
Mar 2014

spying organizations. I think they are called intelligence organizations, though there's nothing intelligent about these organizations.

Heck, I am convinced the CIA killed President Kennedy. I think presidents end up under the thumb of spy organizations, and either work with them "or else."

Autumn

(45,064 posts)
80. I think we've known this all along.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:38 PM
Mar 2014

After the inauguration it was clear that Bush would be protected. Looking forward and all that shit.

northoftheborder

(7,572 posts)
81. I have not read this piece by Marcy Wheeler. How many of you in the above postings have....
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:39 PM
Mar 2014

......read it? Most of your posts are concerned with arguments about the publishing source. Before I read this long article, I would like to see some honest critiques from some people who have read the whole thing. Help a fellow DUer....who has less time than some of you to spend on argument. Thank you.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
84. Short answer, there's no there there.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:03 PM
Mar 2014

It's basically a rather pointless mishmash of old news and yesterday's blog headlines to produce something worthy of, well, e-bay.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
104. So you take one biased recommendation rather than check it out for yourself?
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:57 PM
Mar 2014

Now how do you know anyone who responds to you has actually read it anyway?

Any one with the same attitude as those who didn't read it could give you that comment without having read it.

Why not go peruse it and see if you agree with it or not?


grasswire

(50,130 posts)
90. this thread has more than 50 recs
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 03:33 PM
Mar 2014

.....so don't take the naysayer's characterization (who replied to your request for a summary) with any confidence at all. Marcy Wheeler has a Ph.D. and is known to be precise and precisely truthful. Bookmark the article and read it later when you have some time, and read all the comments, too.

Autumn

(45,064 posts)
99. Does one really need to be told what they should or should not read?
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:19 PM
Mar 2014

Most people make up their own minds on stuff like that. Bookmark it and read it later if you find yourself short on time.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
105. I read the whole thing and Dan Froomkin's article and found it worthwhile info...
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:58 PM
Mar 2014

but...you might be addressing people I can't see here on my ignore list who had a problem with the article and were doing "drive by's?"

Whatever, I read both at the Intercept Site. Good stuff over there.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
82. Marcy is good read and so good to see Dan Froomkin back
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:58 PM
Mar 2014

writing in his style that made him a must read for many of us. He makes sense out of complicated issues and supports with links to other sources and then pulls the info together for his readers. Not everyone has a talent like he has. Glad to see him freed from his Wilderness at Huff Post....

K&R.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
101. US Torture Documents from The National Security Archive/Torturing Democracy (I trust that site)
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:35 PM
Mar 2014

Many of them were obtained by FOIA requests from The Federation of American Scientists (I trust that site too)

http://www.torturingdemocracy.org/documents

tea and oranges

(396 posts)
108. To the deniers:
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:40 PM
Mar 2014

Look, I get a stomachache reading articles like the Wheeler piece the OP discusses. Sometimes I even have to quit reading a few times & do something else until I'm centered enough to continue.

That doesn't mean:

The writer of the OP is a libertarian (or some other mistrusted group).
The writer hates Obama.
That Obama's always wrong.
That my personal discomfort means article must be a lie.
That if I jump up & down & yell it'll all go away.
That if I attack enough Duers I can ignore the implications.

If you can't handle disappointment, ambiguity, nuance, or truth, stay away from politics.

I'm taking the advice of other posters & putting a few of you on ignore.

Buh Bye!

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
113. You have no idea how much better the site reads without all the dead weight that now populates
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:55 PM
Mar 2014

my ignore list.

The people who are left are able to disagree with others and engage in real discussion at the same time! Sometimes without derisive snark or even a single .

tea and oranges

(396 posts)
114. I'm looking forward to that
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:44 PM
Mar 2014

The people who are now on ignore are like the opposite of cockroaches, who run away when the lights come on.

The Ignored rush in whenever a dark topic is explored, almost immediately, yet never shed light on it - they just want to mock, taunt, deny, & call names.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
118. Marcy Wheeler is a libertarian who is blaming Obama for crimes of the Bush administration
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:26 AM
Mar 2014

even though Obama has been supporting declassification of the documents that would show what happened.

There are better sources on this topic than Marcy Wheeler:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024648419

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
127. The article and the subject manner are far more intricate
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:24 PM
Mar 2014

than the typical 30 second attention span that some are only capable of.

One of the complications is that if and when there ever is prosecutions for torture there will be covert forces aligned with Democrats as well as Republicans who are guilty. "A house divided upon itself cannot stand?"

President Obama must be keenly aware that if there was an intense investigation with concrete consequences for the guilty that it just might rip this country apart.

Remember those heady days after 9/11? Bush had 93% approval ratings similar to Putin. People were calling for blood on the Islamic world in displays of the ugliest bigotry I've ever seen. The public was inviting this sanctioned torture program. They wanted blood and the intelligence services gave it to them.

This is such a well regulated site that I couldn't imagine ever using my alert or ignore feature for anything. That being said, there is persistent, repetitive posts arguing from certain points of view, which can be exasperating. But everyone's voice needs to be heard and criticism is good.

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