Edward Snowden: The Biggest Revelations Are Yet to Come

[Purveyor]

VANCOUVER, Canada — Edward Snowden on Tuesday said the biggest revelations have yet to come out of the estimated 1.7 million documents he acquired from the National Security Agency.

In a surprise appearance via satellite robot at the 2014 TED conference in Vancouver, Snowden said there is still a lot of reporting to be done, including diving deeper into the accusation that the NSA tricks companies into building backdoors into their systems that make data vulnerable to hackers across the world.

"Is it really terrorism that we're stopping? I say no," Snowden said. "The bottom line is that terrorism [...] has always been a cover for actions. Terrorism evokes an emotional response."

Snowden, who is still in hiding somewhere in Russia, maintained that his act wasn't reckless and that he did it all for the American people. He also said he would love to return to the United States — if granted immunity.

"I don't want to harm my government" he said. "The fact that they're willing to ignore due process and declare guilt without a trial [...] these are things we need to work against as a society."

more...

http://mashable.com/2014/03/18/edward-snowden-ted-2014/

[quinnox]

1. Big K&R!

This has piqued my interest, the more the so called "secrets" are revealed, the more curious I become.

[BlueInPhilly]

2. "He is hiding in Russia"

says everything there is - and Snowden is a traitor. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly wrong.

[cui bono]

14. Such deep analysis must be right.

[Maedhros]

44. Such deep analysis must be RIGHT WING. [n/t]

[BlueInPhilly]

122. Deep Analysis Indeed

To conclude that I am a Right Winger. Your analysis of my "analysis" must have taken all of your 3 brain cells.

[Maedhros]

126. Off to the ignore list for you!

Jeez, you guys aren't even trying anymore.

[Helen Borg]

155. These kinds of posts (Snowden = traitor, without any reasoning) correspond closely

to divisive strategies described in some of the slides in the Disruption Handbook by the NSA leaked by Snowden.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

[wildbilln864]

196. thanks for that little tidbit of info. n/t

[glinda]

261. This link should be its own thread. Thanks!

[sabrina 1]

286. Interesting, thanks for that. It's always good to keep in mind all we've learned about

as Bush called it, 'catapulting the propaganda'. Back then I thought he was just referring to his handlers telling him what to say. But since then we've learned it's way, way worse than that and that there is obscene amounts of our tax dollars paying for us to be lied to.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

313. The "traitor" term-slingers are servile to authority.

They don't know much better because their worldview would be demolished. To hurl insults and accusations are their only coping mechanism.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

312. That wasn't even clever.

If you're going to insult another DUer, at least be creative.

[Maedhros]

93. "The opprobrium of assholes is a badge of honor."

Last edited Tue Mar 18, 2014, 05:56 PM - Edit history (1)

-- Fred Fenster (Benicio del Toro) in "The Usual Suspects"

[BlueInPhilly]

124. OPPROBRIUM!

At least know how to spell it. And if you are referring to Snowden as the asshole, then yes, it is, my badge of honor to call him just that.

[Maedhros]

125. <sigh> Yes, a typo. I will begin self-flagellation immediately.

I apologize for invoking your opprobrium.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

314. Your typo was the ultimate distraction.

See, we're not talking about the revelations. We're talking about how Snowden is a "traitor," and now we're discussing your typo. Yay, NSA!!!!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

48. LOL! Snowden = Nader

[harun]

295. You say that like it is a bad thing?

[sabrina 1]

61. Yes, it says the US Gov. forced him into Russia. The question is why?? Why did they want him to

remain in Russia? That was going to be a couple of hours stopover on his way elsewhere, until the US made it impossible for him to leave.

Have you asked yourself why they would have wanted Russia to have access to him which they could have prevented but actually made it happen.

[Thinkingabout]

79. When did the US force Snowden into Russia?

[sabrina 1]

80. When he was on his way to S. America. He had a stopover in Russia and a flight booked out of there

to continue his journey. The US Govt cancelled his passport making it impossible to board that flight. Seems either they weren't thinking straight, or they wanted him there.

[Thinkingabout]

84. Again, when did the US force him into Russia, seems like he booked the flight himself, not by force

from the US, Snowden must have forced himself. He chose, now he must live his choice.

[sabrina 1]

89. The US Govt is responsible for him being in Russia. That was not his destination, they forced him

to remain there. He booked the flight to S. America, not Russia.

Is there something unclear in any of this that you do not understand?

I would be happy to help you if that is the case.

[BlueInPhilly]

134. Oh for God's sake! He is in Russia!

He could always come home and exonerate himself if he is indeed innocent. But he is not.

[radiclib]

143. Right. "Exonerate himself". Piece o' cake.

Like he wouldn't get a kangaroo court, and tossed into a hole.

[sabrina 1]

162. Oh for God's sake, I just told you WHY he is there. And no, he cannot come home, see Manning,

torture, isolation, 35 years behind bars for REPORTING TORTURE and other war crimes. Where have you BEEN to make a statement like that in this country? Have you talked to Drake, Binney, who did just as you are telling Snowden to do. They went TOTALLY by the book, through all the channels, and their lives were DESTROYED, careers, finances, and they were the lucky ones.

Just please STOP pretending this country protects Whistle Blowers. It doesn't, period.

And every last one of our Bush Era Whistle Blowers and more, completely support Snowden's decision NOT to remain in this country.

If you want future Whistle Blowers to do that, THEN STOP SUPPORTING the policies that make it impossible.

You HEARD CIA Agents talk about 'taking him out'. He did, so if you want any credibility for your opinions on this, then at least acknowledge that there is no way future Whistle Blowers will or can remain in this country until the Rule of Law has been restored regarding Torturers, Wall St Criminals, and War Criminals. That is a fact.

[snort]

168. "I believe the guilty bastard should have a fair trial"

Right on!

[sabrina 1]

258. Lol, that's as good as why we need to invade the world: 'we have invisible enemies'

[840high]

174. Tell me this is a joke.

[LondonReign2]

306. Geez, the second the admins banhammer one sock puppet

I have to fill the ignore slot they just freed up

[Fantastic Anarchist]

315. Yeah, like that's going to happen. n/t

[truedelphi]

107. Always remember sabrina,

Ignore function can be yr friend.

The loop spinners take up too much time and energy.

[sabrina 1]

264. True, and I notice fewer and fewer wasting much time or energy.

Thanks for the advice trudelphi

[Sheepshank]

257. peddling falsehoods for the upteenth time doesn't make it suddenly true

Your account of the Snowden passport revocation timeline, and how that ensures someone stays inside of a country is false, incorrect, has been pointed out to you with links..... and still you continue.

[sabrina 1]

259. Exactly right, peddling falsehoods does NOT make them true, no matter how many times

they are peddled.

Snowden booked a ticket to S.America, not to Russia, PERIOD.

And anyone peddling the lie that he 'ran to Russia' won't become a fact no matter how many times it is told.

[Sheepshank]

269. You are deliberately peddling the falshood that Snowdon was herded to, and trapped in Russia

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10024371359

throughout the thread, your false meme had been corrected, yet since it doesn't fit your narrative you continue chose to ignore it all. In fact, it would appeal that you let the matter drop there since the redord was irrefutable...only to bring it back up here, hoping you could ressurect the falsehood.

At the very least, Snowden thinks he is more clever than the average VISA checker. He could leave Rissua at any time. People travel without passports and visas all the time. Doesn't necessarily make it legal, or straightforward, or honest, but when has that stopped Snowden?

ETA to correct link

[sabrina 1]

270. I am stating facts. If you don't like facts, that is not my problem.

Not once has anyone refuted the fact that Snowden booked a flight to S. American NOT to Russia. Feel free to address the actual fact, rather than sling insults at me, which mean zero to me btw.

And the US rescinded his passport after which he was stranded in Russia.

Iow, Snowden did not 'flee to Russia and hand over documents' until someone can actually prove that false meme.

Rep. Rep. Rodgers tried and the MSM in a rare moment of actual 'journalism' asked him for proof. We haven't heard from him since.

[Sheepshank]

272. rather than making up shit, on the fly.....please provide ANY documentation

you provide lots and lots of unsubstantiated narrative.

I have provided you with cites, that are listed in the link...what have you provided, other than wishful thinking, that Snowden was forced to reside in Russia?

[Sheepshank]

309. Hello? did you read the corrected link?

what *facts* do you have that may refute those provided in the link?

[zeemike]

72. Put me on your "sadly wrong" list

I will wear it with pride.

[Scuba]

92. Me too.

[Enthusiast]

244. Me three.

[sabrina 1]

271. Me too! n/t

[rhett o rick]

141. Actually it says very little except maybe about you. Apparently without any kind of

argument against what Snowden has done, you resort to name calling. Reminds me of Jr. High. I do understand why you are upset. Snowden pulled back the curtain to reveal that the NSA has no clothes. That they are violating the Constitution. Those whose reality rely on a heavy dose of denial are obviously upset. The authoritarians of the good ole USofA are deemed goodness and damn those that reveal differently.

We may well have a Constitutional crisis and you are screaming, "Look, look Snowden wears Mom Jeans."

[AverageJoe90]

147. This, pretty much.

I might be sympathetic to this guy if he hadn't made off with info that could potentially harm innocent parties and not skirted off to what may be *THE* most repressive major country in all of Europe(well, most of Russia is actually in Asia, technically speaking but it's not as bad as North Korea, Iran, Syria, or China though).

[carla]

158. You would do better

shutting up than telling others what to think. You are a traitor to democracy when you blindly following the party line. I say SHUT UP and THINK, but the latter is just as unlikely as the former...got to go wash now, after responding to your shit.

[billhicks76]

163. You Are Wrong

And it's not sad just pathetic you can utter such bs. Anyone who thinks Snowden is a traitor is either a Republican, paid blogger or a sock puppet and I dont buy it for one bit. The NSA blackmails countless politicians and journalists too. Just as ex NSA analyst Russ Tice. He laid it all out in interviews.

[bobduca]

170. analyze this:

PLONK

[wildbilln864]

178. sadly...

you're wrong! n/t

[DeSwiss]

191. Yes it does say everything.

- It says that he knows (like I do) that NO ONE -- least of all those punks in the WH and Pentagon -- can fuck with him while he exposes these [font size=5]FUCKING TRAITORS[/font] for what they are to the entire world.


So long!

[leftynyc]

275. Your hyperbole

is not made any more valid by using giant bold fonts. Your hero keeps promising to spill the beans but so far there is nothing that hadn't already been reported or suspected.

[sabrina 1]

291. I'm always fascinated by this 'we knew about it so it's nothing new'.

Let's suppose that is correct. Can you explain to me why, because we know already that crimes have been committed, it would in any way diminish the crimes simply because no arrests have yet been made?

Eg, there is no statute of limitations on murder. We know when a murder has been committed. Does it lessen the crime if a few years go by and someone brings the case up again because no arrests have yet been made?

I mean it doesn't appease anyone to say 'oh, we heard about that crime already, nothing new here' so long as the perp is still at large, right?

So what is the point you are making? My interpretation is that you are CONFIRMING that crimes have been committed, but are saying that since we already knew about them, we should just let the perps go free? That never made sense to me.

[ucrdem]

293. What crimes?

The only criminal behavior exposed so far by Snowden is his own:

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/us-vs-edward-j-snowden-criminal-complaint/496/

[sabrina 1]

294. Have you ever read the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution?

And have you ever read the oaths of office taken by all of our elected officials and our military?

What an odd question!

[ucrdem]

296. Yes. But the question was what "crimes" has Snowden exposed?

And the answer is, these and these alone:

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/us-vs-edward-j-snowden-criminal-complaint/496/

[sabrina 1]

300. Oh THAT. Well he certainly expected that reaction. See Manning, Drake, Binney et al.

We prosecute those who expose crimes to protect those who commit them. Haven't you been paying attention over the past dozen years or so?

That is why from now on Whistle Blowers will seek political asylum elsewhere when they try to do what is right for their country. That is why Snowden did so, he saw what happens to Whistle Blowers in this country.

Since you read the Constitution and the Oaths of Office, that should help you with your question regarding the crimes he exposed. It sure is clear to me, unless we have abandoned the Constitution which is after all, 'just a quaint old document'?

[ucrdem]

301. The fact remains that he exposed no crimes, but committed several.

So he isn't really a whistle blower, is he? But he is an accused retailer of stolen intel.

[sabrina 1]

320. He certainly did. But you go right on denying the reality that our rights have been handed over to

Bush/Cheney's Private 'Security Companies'. Clapper, Bush Loyalist, should have been removed the minute we won but six years later these violators of our laws, are still in powerful positions, lying to Congress with no consequences and the people want to know WHY?

Clapper, a perfect example of everything we railed against during the Bush occupation of the WH. Former CEO of Booz Allen, war profiteering Private Security Corp, moves through the revolving door into a Government position where he can keep the war and security funds flowing to his 'former' Private Corp. When he's done, he will move sleazily back into the 'Private Sector' and will be richly rewarded for all the money he extorted out of Congress, he People's Money, billions of it, for his former employees.

Funny, Dems used to know all this stuff and used to be ouraged by it.

What happened?

[ucrdem]

321. He certainly did commit crimes?

Yes, I know. I posted the warrant earlier this afternoon. But expose crimes? None. Not one. And Clapper's congressional testimony isn't a crime except in certain fevered imaginations.

[sabrina 1]

322. Lol, it's hard facing reality, I know, it took me a while, but it feels a whole lot better when you

no longer find yourself trying to defend the indefensible. It is very liberating actually. I hope one day you too will no longer feel the need to struggle with the hopeless, as I discovered, attempt to try to make what is so terribley wrong, 'seem' right. As I learned, it's just not possible.

Good luck in your endeavors, I know how it feels. Been there, have now moved on to caring only about the truth.

[ucrdem]

323. The reality is that he exposed no crimes.

None. Did you listen to ANY of his speeches on DN? Nothing but a lot of Libertarian horse####, to put it politely. Ditto Greenwald. Interviewers would ask him, Glenn, where's the beef, and he'd go off on some nasty tear. But the crimes never materialized and I don't expect any will. Which is what I've been saying all along.

[sabrina 1]

324. Sure, if you dismiss the Constitution of the US. Which apparently is the goal. Bush never liked it

airc. Made it hard for him to spy on the American people. But unfortunately for those who are so desperately trying to ignore it, it IS still the law of the land, and a whole lot of Americans still believe in the Rule of Law.

Like I said, I know how difficult it is to try to defend the indefensible. Ellsberg went through the same thing as Snowden, but in the end, the rule of law DID prevail, as it will this time.

I wonder why it is that if no crimes were commited, Clapper had to lie to Congress? I wonder why if no crimes were commited, Snowden is not just being ignored and Manning is in jail, and Drake was persecuted for revealing those 'non crimes'.

Snowden had exposed egregious crimes. Now we'll see whether or not this country has the courage to prosecute the criminals.

[ucrdem]

325. The Bush-Cheney NSA was lawless, yes,

but Snowball hasn't exposed any of his hero's crimes, either. And he hasn't exposed any criminal wrong-doing, statutory violation, law-breaking -- crime -- by the Obama NSA. Whether the laws it currently operates under are Constitutional is a matter for the Supreme Court to decide. But as it stands the law is not being broken by the NSA and to my knowledge the Omidyar gang has failed to reveal a single crime except for Snowden's own.

[sabrina 1]

330. What?? Spying was lawless and nothing was done about it?? Why were they not prosecuted

then?? In any democracy when elected officials abuse the power entrusted to them by the people, that is the logical outcome.

So since we, and Snowden, agree that spying on the American is lawless, can you explain why nothing happened to the law breakers?

[ucrdem]

331. Ask Snowball. He was there. nt

[sabrina 1]

332. So what Cheney/Bush did was NOT lawless, it WAS lawless? What are you saying, Snowden

wasn't in Congress was he? If spying on the American people is lawless, (and I agree with you) then why wasn't something done about it, and since it wasn't, and they are STILL DOING, (thank you Snowden) them how on earth can you say on the one hand that it WAS lawless, nothing was done about it, actually something WAS done, they, Congress covered the crimes by abusing their power and voting to make it legal back to when the crimes were committed. NOW they have gone further, as these revelations are showing. That's what happens when you don't deal with lawless behavior.

Do you disagree with Ron Wyden, Udall, who were warning us for years BEFORE the Snowden revelations? The revelations CONFIRM what they were trying to warn us about.

I trust those two rather than a bunch of Republicans, like Rogers, Palin et al.

[nikto]

339. I'm with you, sabrina 1.

[sabrina 1]

343. Thank you, nikto

[nikto]

346. I just find the unconditional Snowden-haters...

So Bushonian, so...Cheneyian.
Y' know?

[sabrina 1]

347. But they would have loved him back in the old Bush days.

Ironic, isn't it? It's been an eye-opening few years, but a necessary process. I certainly was naive about 'our side' during the Bush days. I thought it was all about issues. It's always hard to admit when you are wrong, but boy, was I ever wrong about that.

[leftynyc]

310. Crimes?

The NSA has vastly overreached but I have seen no evidence of crimes. I stopped reading right there. Meanwhile, if you don't want people to think Snowden is a narcissistic asshole, perhaps he shouldn't continue to promise to spill the beans time and time again without actually releasing any more information.

[ReRe]

231. Respectfully...

... I'm sadly wrong then.

[Enthusiast]

242. LOL

[Katashi_itto]

246. A deep thinker.

[RC]

251. Why are you supporting the NSA's unconstitutional and illegal spying on American citizens?

This is not as much about Edward Snowden, or even terrorism, as it is about a federal agency running amuk over the basic Rights of human beings the world over. The Right to privacy. All Snowden did and is doing is exposing their excesses.

[grahamhgreen]

266. Come on join us... Look how lonely! Exposing crimes is not a crime.

[ucrdem]

276. He hasn't exposed any crimes.

Not one. He's exposed a legally executed FISA warrant, period. What classified intel he's retailed to Putin, Xi, GG, and dawg knows who I'd like to know, but Wolf doesn't seem very concerned and neither does anyone else in the media.

Why is that I wonder?

[ucrdem]

289. p.s. except this:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/716888/u-s-vs-edward-j-snowden-criminal-complaint.pdf

[RoccoR5955]

298. Which is why we should....

...bomb Russia until it's nothing but radioactive glass! Or DEMAND Putin turn him over, so that we can put him in isolation for a couple of months, while torturing him into telling us what we want to here.

I get it...

And anyone who doesn't believe that he is a traitor, should ship off to Russia as well. RIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHTTTTT!

Sounds like a meme I have heard over the years on the other side, doesn't it?

I guess that Bush is a hero, as was Reagan.






EXTREME sarcasm fully intended.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

311. Good-fucking-grief.

That insult (traitor) is a term used as a last resort by someone who just can't comprehend the complexity of the NSA issue. Instead of the ad hominem against Edward Snowden, could you possibly have a comment about how dangerous to democratic ideals the NSA actually is?

[nikto]

334. So, is it time to bomb yet, mr neocon?

What about a drone strike on Snowden?
Would you approve that?

Answer honestly.

[astral]

344. Did you even listen to his interview? I think not.

He strikes me as being very honest and earnest about what he's doing. If you think he is a traitor tat begs the question, a traitor to WHOM ? I knew we were being spied on to a ridiculous extent, and I for one am grateful he is sticking his neck out for the sake of our rights. If you care not about your rights that's your prerogative.

[astral]

345. Did you even listen to the interview? I think not.

I knew we were being spied upon beyond what was admitted, and I for one am grateful he stuck his neck out for the sake of our freedom. We fight for it or we lose it. I must ask you to clarify, he is a traitor to WHOM?


(oops, posted 2x b/c my puter told me my first post didnt work.)

[ucrdem]

3. Bigger than, let's see ... that year-old Verizon warrant?

Has there been anything else besides a load of vapor ware?

[bravenak]

4. He will never reveal anything new.

I do not believe him. He steals.

[hueymahl]

59. You forgot the sarcasm tag.

[bravenak]

67. Nope.

Did not. He still has not revealed anything i did not know or strongly suspect. He just keeps saying he is going to do a big reveal. Wont happen. It will be the same stuff we already knew since MLK and Malcolm X were being spied on. And the government knowing our thoughts as we type and copying the internet daily. And meta data that we already knew about. And Russia protecting freedoms.
He steals. I never trust thieves to be honest. They always try to make some excuse for stealing.

[go west young man]

78. Some excuses for stealing are good ones.

The myth of Prometheus comes to mind.

From Wiki;

In Greek mythology, Prometheus (/prəˈmiːθiːəs/; Greek: Προμηθεύς, pronounced [promɛːtʰeús], meaning "forethought&quot [1] is a Titan, culture hero, and trickster figure who is credited with the creation of man from clay, and who defies the gods and gives fire to humanity, an act that enabled progress and civilization. Prometheus is known for his intelligence and as a champion of mankind.[2]

The punishment of Prometheus as a consequence of the theft is a major theme of his mythology, and is a popular subject of both ancient and modern art. Zeus, king of the Olympian gods, sentenced the Titan to eternal torment for his transgression. The immortal Prometheus was bound to a rock, where each day an eagle, the emblem of Zeus, was sent to feed on his liver, which would then grow back to be eaten again the next day. (In ancient Greece, the liver was thought to be the seat of human emotions.)[3] In some stories, Prometheus is freed at last by the hero Heracles (Hercules).

You may also be interested in the Atomic Spys of WW2 who were stealing nuclear secrets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_spies

[bravenak]

88. Ok. Why the mythology?

I think theives lie. Thats my thing. Everyone who has ever stolen from me has lied about it and made excuses for themselves. I do not believe in gods. Man discovered fire and learned how to use it. Nothing to do with myths or gods. Unless you are likening Sniwden to a mytholigical figure and the US,me included to gods, which is just silly. Because in this case he did not bring the 'fire' to us his people, he took the 'fire' to some other gods ( chinese and russia). He still hasnt shown us the fire. Just the smoke. And we already saw the smoke.

[go west young man]

105. Myths are actually just roadmaps of human behavior

cloaked in strangeness for those who choose to explore. I liked the analogy here as one small entity trumps the larger more powerful entity. It's fitting. Remove any cloak of nationalism you may have and it's much easier to see that Snowdon has done us a favor by disclosing what nefarious things our own government is up to.

[bravenak]

112. You likened him to a guy that brought something new to humanity. Fire.

He did not bring me fire, because i had some matches. Thats all im saying. I knew the government spied on people by reading Malcolm X in 8th grade. I figured they had gotten better at it since then. Then they were talking about it on the news during the bush admin. I remembered that. Then i watched the wire, great show. I figure if the local pd could do that, there were no limits on what the US govt could do. This was talked about before Snowden. I was waiting on him to reveal something new. He never will. Because thieves are liars. Wasn't this the point of the thread? He is going to do a big reveal?
I don't believe him. He's a thief and a liar.

[go west young man]

121. The difference between your or my assumption

or presumption is empirical evidence. Thanks to Snowdon and Manning we no longer have to presume and neither do many people who were ignorant of the matter. It is now factually proven and no longer theoretical. In science theories have to move through a series of steps for observation before they are considered worthy of belief or proven. The empirical evidence we are receiving is much more important and significant than someones ability to perceive what "they know" to be true.

You may not see "a fire" here but there certainly is one....you just choose not to think of it as such. Your's would be an opinion..sadly one that is content with the status quo. As for what he may reveal yet....that is also unanswerable... until of course he reveals it and then you would have whatever "empirical proof" you might choose to discard. The world moves along even if some of us refuse to move along with it.

[bravenak]

127. The world also keeps moving no matter what the nsa does.

Its not my biggest problem. Way down on the list. I do not believe he will be revealing anything further that we dont already know. I do not think he will because he has not done it yet. What is the hold up? Show me the money!! Or in this case show me the big reveal! But he wont. Because he is a liar. And a thief. And lying thieves sometimes just need attention. And he gets it everytime he bullshits about another BIG reveal coming up. He will probably put out some documents. Nothing important. And some people will act like it is manna from heaven and eat it all up. And then he will keep jerking their chains for a while until he fades into obscurity. I am enjoying it myself, what i have been seeing of it. Good stuff. Thumb drives for freedome and all that. I worry about the PIC myself. It is way more important to me than the nsa.

[tblue37]

252. The Pentagon Papers were also "stolen." Your premise is simplistic silliness. nt

[bravenak]

283. The pentagon papers.

Did they get taken to china and russia too?

[mrdmk]

348. In truth, the Pentagon Papers were spread all over the world for everyone to read

Nothing like a little sunshine to get the U.S.A. to rethink a very poor policy...

[Maedhros]

81. So we should just cease discussion of the issue of NSA over-reach,

because you think you already know all about it?

Forgive me, but I'm not quite ready to accept you're assertions as either a) fact or b) sufficient to motivate me to cease discussing the danger of the growing national surveillance state.

[bravenak]

103. Nope. You should talk about it all you want to, hun.

Where did i say you should do anything?? I speak for myself. And i think that the little thief is a liar. And i think he will keep coming with breaking news about the breaking news that he is going to break one day. Like he has been doing for months. He is a bullshit artist.

I never said you should stop discussing the NSA. While you talk about that i'll be over there-----> discussing income inequality or stop and frisk or how to not be shot by the popo for being black. Things that i am super worried about. Don't mind me. I'm just a person with an opinion, you can leave it right where you found it. Minding its business. I don't have any problem with you discussing it. Although i do find it funny when people liken him to prometheus bringing fire to us mortals. ( not about you)

[Maedhros]

149. You post this:

While you talk about that i'll be over there-----> discussing income inequality or stop and frisk or how to not be shot by the popo for being black.

Yes - by all means, do that. I'll even join you, because that is also a very important discussion.

But why do you feel compelled to come to this thread just to tell us it's not important? If you don't like the discussion, trash the thread and move on.

[bravenak]

154. You responded to me not the other way around.

I did not know you owned the thread. I go where i please. As should you.
I just posted things that i have opinions on. I think Snowden steals and is lying about a big reveal. You do not have to like my opinions. I do not care if you agree with me. I never said it was not important. Just that I do not find his revelations to be very revealing. The NSA is not MY biggest issue.
He is bullshitting about new revelations. I would love to see what he has but i never will. He will never show us. Just like the government.

[go west young man]

180. Here's something for you to ponder...

although I'm sure you won't as critical thought seems out the window in regards to you.

If Snowdon is a thief and a liar...
and Snowdon worked for Booze, Allen, Hamilton...
which is a subsidiary of the Carlyle Group...
that is comprised of NeoCons and Bush admin accomplices...
who lied us into an illegal invasion that killed half a million people..
and now gathers secret info on the internet while trading on the stock market...
and their stock has risen steadily since Snowdon revealed who they were...

Then who are the real thieves? And why are you so gullible as to believe they are doing the USA a favor
and not instead just enriching themselves at your gullible expense?

After all, according to your logic we should never believe thieving liars.

I haven't seen Snowdon kill half a million innocent Iraqis yet.

[bravenak]

217. So guilt by association. I never knew how to play right..

Let me try.

If you're on DU and i am here, and my cousins baby daddies cousin is a murderer... Aren't you the real killer? Or am i? Or is she?

[go west young man]

219. Your posts are a bit of a time waster.

Gotta go. Have a good night. Peace.

[bravenak]

220. You too. Sweet dreams.

[progressoid]

110. The NSA steals too.

Which thieves should we trust.

[bravenak]

111. None baby.

Never trust a thief.

[Maedhros]

150. You know, you're just not all that interesting.

Just posting accusations.

Welcome to ignore.

[bravenak]

151. It sure is crowded in here.

Nice crowd too. I like it here.

[Number23]

186. Apparently calling a man who stole something a thief is "making accusations"

LORD have mercy...

Whether he is a traitor or not, whether he revealed helpful or harmful information is definitely up for discussion. But anyone denying that he stole data is just... I don't even know what the word is.

Consider it an unintentional blessing of the highest order that one put you on ignore and you won't have to deal with it for a second longer.

[bravenak]

188. I am grateful. I'm boring anyway.

The list of banned words against bullshit artists is growing. And the list of approved slurs against the Prez is growing. At the same time. Fun times around here.

I thought the man went on teevee and admitted stealing. And leaving the country with stolen property. These are facts. I do not see the need to pretend that stealing is not stealing if the stuff the person stole was from the government. I guess he can stay in Russia where freedoms are protected, and stuff like that. Russia- last bastion of freedom!

[delrem]

177. Either, as you say, you already knew everything Snowden revealed about NSA,

in which case these matters were public knowledge and he could hardly have "stolen" anything of importance, or "lied" about anything of importance, or you didn't.

[bravenak]

182. He hasn't really revealed much.

So, he should do it. Or shut up. Stop saying he's going to reveal more later, and then when later comes, say he is going to reveal more later. When does it end? When is he going to do the big reveal? Never in my opinion. He is lying. I do not believe he has anything more worthwhile to reveal. No point in the long draw out.

He admits to stealing classified information. I think he owes it to the rest of us to let us see it too. Stop jerking us around. I do not want him back. I do want to know what he stole and took out of the country. Why should he get to decide about the free flow of information? He is doing the same thing the US government does. Hiding info and deciding when it should be revealed. He is a liar.

[delrem]

203. He gave the data to a couple of journalists.

What we've learned, since, is considerable.

You deny learning anything, and you hold Snowden to an extremely high standard. Such a high standard that, if he kept it, you'd never forgive him.
Here is something (wiki):
"XKeyscore
XKeyscore or XKEYSCORE (abbreviated as XKS) is a formerly secret computer system first used by the United States National Security Agency for searching and analyzing Internet data it collects worldwide every day. The program has been shared with other spy agencies including Australia's Defence Signals Directorate, New Zealand's Government Communications Security Bureau and the German Bundesnachrichtendienst.[1]"

I'm able to talk about XKEYSCORE because of Snowden's courage. I don't think that my ability to talk about this program poses a terrorist threat. I deny your claim that I should have known about all this before, from earlier readings - that it was all a given.

Yes, Snowden is a "thief", in the sense that Daniel Ellsberg is an even greater "thief". But at a certain point counterbalancing issues become important and a lot of us seem willing to grant Daniel Ellsberg the benefit of the doubt in that regard. Furthermore, Daniel Ellsberg has himself offered his opinion in this regard.

[bravenak]

206. I admit i didnt know the particular program the government used and i know it know.

I did know they were spying on other nations and i suspected that we spied on all nations.


I am holding him to a very low standard because i do not believe he will have anything further to reveal and if he does he will not reveal it. I think he's done. All this saying he is going to reveal further information needs to stop until he is ready to do it. A revelation about a future revelation??
He needs to say what he has to say.

[sabrina 1]

85. What he stole, the American people own. If they determine that he did the right thing on their

behalf, making it possible for them to see what they paid for, billions in fact, and polls show a majority do, there is not much more to say about it.

The SC already ruled that when a Whistle Leaks documents that are in the Public Interest, the Public Interest supercedes any laws broken in order to do so.

[bravenak]

96. Then he should give it back.

Its ours not his, and i want a divorce from him and id like my portion of what he stole returned. If you want him to keep your portion from you and let the Russians get first or second or third look at your part fine. But he stole from me too and i want my stuff back. He can stay where he is.

Now there are procedures to be considered a whistleblower and i do not think he fits the profile. He took my stuff and left the country. He is a thief. Theives are liars. He has been lying about a big reveal for a while now and has a bunch of folks champing at the bit to hear his startling news. Nothing will be coming.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

99. You're right, he should give it all back to us, the people.

Post every single last document in public for us to have.

[bravenak]

113. He should stop pretending he is going to do a big reveal and be like nike and just do it.

Stop fronting.

[fascisthunter]

274. You Need to Stop Pretending it isn't a Big Deal

especially to you.

[bravenak]

278. You need to think for yourself and not for me.

The nsa may be the biggest thing in your life.

[fascisthunter]

285. Seems alot more Important to you...

[bravenak]

287. Then you need to read the thread.

I indicated its level of importance to me.

[sabrina 1]

100. Ellsberg took OUR stuff and the SC ruled that the American people had a right to see that stuff

Take it up with the SC. A majority of the people do not agree with you. That's how democracy works.

[bravenak]

114. Did Ellsberg take our stuff to China and Russia too and not show it to us?

I did not know that the courts said that was okay. When did the courts say it was okay to steal classified documents and take them to the Chinese media? Then off to Russia? Link please to the decision regarding stealing classified documents and taking them to foreign press. I need to read that one.

[sheshe2]

137. Brava, braveneck!

[bravenak]

144. I will never get that link now.

I'll wait for a while though. Like she will, for snowdens big reveal. That wont ever happen.

[KoKo]

148. He is a Whistle Blower Exposing Massive, Eggregious Spying Network since Hoover!

If you have any evidence that China MEDIA blasted out that Snowden revealed Documents ...then POST LINKS...

AND: If you have Evidence that PUTIN has REVEALED US NATIONAL SECRETS...

POST LINKS to the NEWS!

Otherwise you are posting Talking Points from some source that has NOTHING TO DO with the issue that's up for discussion.

[bravenak]

157. I never made claims that putin did anything. Post a link to me saying that.

Where did i say Chinese media blasted out anything? U made that up too.

I said. I do not think that the little thief will reveal anything further of any importance. Because i think he is a liar like most thieves. And he keeps saying he is going to reveal something but he still has not. And i do not believe he will. Because i do not believe thieves. Because thieves lie.

And he is in fact a thief.

[Number23]

181. Well said. And by the way, the majority of Americans want Snowden jailed

Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 01:58 AM - Edit history (1)

That is indisputable. So I don't know where this "most people don't agree with you" bit is coming from. Most people seem to be very solidly in your corner in that regard. People don't want people they perceive as heroic and honorable to be jailed, which means that these are obviously two qualities most Americans don't ascribe to Snowden.

At the height of Snowden's revelations, he only had about 55% support from the American public. Hell, he only had about 51% support in Russia and that was after his very vocal support for Russian/Putin. And the more time he spends in Russia, the lower those numbers will drop. Those are irrefutable facts, not hysteria including the comment that the US forced him to wind up in Russia. That is not true either.

[bravenak]

185. Did i ever tell you that the NSA was one of my least important issues?

Ranks near weed on my list. I shouldn't be here, but this place seemed a little fact free. I am now being ignored. I was being nice too.
Someone likened him to Prometheus today. Bringing fire to humanity. Sigh.....
Thumb-drives for freedom. I must be missing something.

[frylock]

200. yet here you are

[bravenak]

209. I am obviously needed.

So here i shall remain.....

[Bobbie Jo]

201. Well no, don't think he did now that you mention it.

[sabrina 1]

262. Ellsberg actually addressed that myth regarding Snowden.

Link please to Snowden taking 'documents to Russia and China'.

[bravenak]

279. Show me the link i asked you for first.

Show me yours and ill show you mine.

[sabrina 1]

284. I'd rather see yours first, if you don't mind.

[bravenak]

288. I do mind.

I have been waiting on you since yesterday.

[sabrina 1]

290. I take it you have nothing to show me then?

I kind of thought that might be the case ....

[bravenak]

292. Just like Snowden!!!

Snowden says himself that he took the documents to china. He says he Left them in hong kong. Are you calling him a liar like i am? Good. Glad you finally noticed that he is bullshitting. Unless you think Greenwald came to the US and picked us the files?

[leftynyc]

273. Don't expect anyone here to

respond with anything but calling you a fascist NSA apologist. It's all they have. I also think that if he's just waiting until he has the spotlight again, his constantly "wait'll you see what I have" nonsense is no different from those continuing to investigate whether the Pres was born in Hawaii. If the info is ours, he should post it online since he obviously doesn't care if our enemies see it.

[bravenak]

302. No facts here!

According to some, i need to prove snowden took the documents to china that he says he took to china.
That man just needs some attention.

[questionseverything]

303. ellsberg took it to the press exactly as snowden has done

This article is about the U.S. Government documents. For the 2003 film, see The Pentagon Papers (film).


A CIA map of dissident activities in Indochina published as part of the Pentagon papers
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Pentagon Papers
The Pentagon Papers, officially titled United States – Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967: A Study Prepared by the Department of Defense, is a United States Department of Defense history of the United States' political-military involvement in Vietnam from 1945 to 1967. The papers were discovered and released by Daniel Ellsberg, and first brought to the attention of the public on the front page of The New York Times in 1971.[1] A 1996 article in The New York Times said that the Pentagon Papers had demonstrated, among other things, that the Johnson Administration "systematically lied, not only to the public but also to Congress."[2]
More specifically, the papers revealed that the U.S. had secretly enlarged the scale of the Vietnam War with the bombings of nearby Cambodia and Laos, coastal raids on North Vietnam, and Marine Corps attacks, none of which were reported in the mainstream media.[3]
For his disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, Ellsberg was initially charged with conspiracy, espionage and theft of government property, but the charges were later dropped after prosecutors investigating the Watergate Scandal soon discovered that the Nixon administration had ordered the so-called White House Plumbers to engage in unlawful efforts to discredit Ellsberg.[4]

[bravenak]

304. Of course.

He did not take them to another country and keep them from the American people. I am thinking there is a difference between the two men.

[questionseverything]

305. time is almost up with you

He did not take them to another country/////////////////////

I am pretty sure other countries had access to nyt



keep them from the American people.//////////////////

the release is slow but he learned, as we all did with the wiki dumps, if too much info goes out at once the msm buries it

I am thinking there is a difference between the two men.///////////////////////////////////////

I think there is too, snowden is much braver than Ellsberg. Ellsberg came out at a time when we still prosecuted war criminals, when we might of still been considered a nation of laws...after the treatment manning received any1 can see that is no longer true

[bravenak]

307. I do not believe Snowden will be releasing anything further.

If he does it will not be the bombshell we have all been waiting for. He's been dragging this out for months, and i now think he's playing everyone at this point. In case you haven't noticed, i rearely have anything to say on the Snowden threads. This time i decided to state my opinion that
1. Snowden's press realeases about a future release is indicating to me that he is attention seeking.
2. He did not find anything else in the files that he can release.
3. He is being used a bit.
4. He should stay where he's at and not come back.
5. He needs to release the information and stop playing games.
6. Most of what he told us we already knew.
7. He admits to stealing the documents, meeting with chinese press, and says he left the stuff in china.
8. I believe he has copies with him in Russia, (or with someone)because
9. Now that he is there, he keeps promising to release more
10. Still waiting

[NealK]

232. "A majority of the people do not agree with you."

You can say that again.

[Mnpaul]

169. I want the NSA to give it back

They stole our info and gave it to numerous parties without our permission or that of a judge. How do you think Snowden ended up with knowledge of it?

It seems like you want to ignore the first couple of thefts. If we stop the original thieves, we don't have worry about people like Snowden exposing the people stealing our info.

[bravenak]

172. What are you talking about?

The nsa gets permission from the fisa courts. You are talking about the meta data right? Who did the NSA give our info to? I know snowden gave somebody access to them, i just don't know how many people he let have access to some or any or all of the data. We gave the government the power to do this by sending representation that voted for this. And don't let me get started on the patriot act.

We don't know what he has, so we don't know whether the government had permission to have the data or not. They may have had valid warrants. We do not know.

[Mnpaul]

189. NSA outsourced the work to a private contractor

show me a search warrant that allows law enforcement to release private info to non law enforcement.

FISA courts did not give the NSA permission. FISA courts deal with foreign surveilance. That is what the "F" in their name denotes.

On top of that, the secret spy courts said:

The National Security Agency “exceeded the scope of authorized acquisition continuously during the years of acquisition under these orders”

The secret court said that for a period of time, virtually every record generated by the email program included data that hadn’t been authorized. At the beginning, the NSA failed to properly control the information it obtained on Americans, allowing it to be shared outside of the small group that was supposed to have access.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/19/secret-surveillance-court-says-nsa-exceeded-bounds/?page=all

Stop the first crime and the rest isn't a problem.

[bravenak]

190. So what does snowden have?

Cause i still don't know what he stole. Clue me in on what he stole because i think we are speaking of different things. The stuff about spying on foreign governments is what i was talking about and the metadata that i do not care about. My phone company has that and i swear they sell my number to tele marketers.

I do not care about the NSA very much. Not on the top of my list. Bigger problems. I just think that snowden is an admitted thief and a liar. He will never tell us anything, so we will never know what he knows.

[wildbilln864]

205. you don't know what he stole!?

but you call him a thief?

[bravenak]

207. Not exactly sheet for sheet.

Do you? He admitted stealing, not my fault. He said he stole documents. I call people who admit to stealing theives. What do you call them?

[wildbilln864]

210. I call him a defender of our Constitution! n/t

[bravenak]

213. Thumb drives for freedum!!

Or something like that. Off the Russia for the freedooms they provide!!

I call him a bit sneaky for stealing those documents.

[wildbilln864]

215. Two people care what you call him. You and....

well make that just one!

[bravenak]

216. More than just me.

You just dont know it.

There were three people who liked when i called him a cheese faced twit.
Shows how much you know! Honey boom!

[wildbilln864]

228. lol, ok...

n/t

[fascisthunter]

268. Oh, He will give it back.. to all of US

So WE can read it all... now that's, real transparency.

[bravenak]

281. He is bullshitting.

Been waiting for a while now. Nothing coming.

[BlueInPhilly]

129. "Public Interest"

That is where the dilemma lies now, doesn't it? What exactly is public interest? We live in a different world, with invisible enemies, that is why there are agencies like NSA and CIA. Sometimes, Public Interest is not as black and white as simple knowledge.

[sabrina 1]

135. 'Invisible enemies'. If they are invisible, how do we know they are there?

We do not live in a different world. The world has pretty much remained the same as it always was. There have ALWAYS been what we call 'terrorists', in every country in the world, since there were countries.

If that is what you are talking about. And if it is, then we are creating more 'invisible enemies' each time we kill an innocent child, or a mother or sister, father. Do you really think that going around the world, CLAIMING we are killing 'terrorists' and using the intentionally dehumanizing epithet, which it is imo, 'collateral damage' for all the innocents we kill is going to make us safer?

Apparently it hasn't. Nor has all the spying, and this has now been confirmed, caught ONE actual terrorist. So how is giving up all of our rights, 'making us safer from invisible enemies'?

And what good is a Constitution, a system of laws, if we rip it up the minute we get scared? Why have it at all?

Why not just hide in our basements and let the Government keep spying and killing and maybe ONE day we'll have no more enemies?

What a scary world they created.

'Defend and protect the Constitution of the US against all enemies, both foreign and domestic'

When did we decide it wasn't worth defending and protecting, that the minute we feel threatened we should just rip it up?

How sad.

[nikto]

341. Oooooohh!!!

Oooooh!
Invisible enemies.





Gotta' smack those invisible enemies----smack 'em good!

[nikto]

342. "Invisible enemies"

Do you know you sound like the entire Bush administration, circa 2002?


Not my opinion. You do.


Just sayin'.

[fascisthunter]

267. "Please ignore the man... please, look away. Nothing new here."

lol

[bravenak]

282. Late to the party, huh?

[tridim]

5. Snowjob is series this time!!!!111

DERP.

[QC]

6. He is a poopiehead!!!

[quinnox]

8. lol, I think some have mistakenly come to see Snowden as an "arch-villian"

to their hero -

[Autumn]

10. Yes they have. If Snowden had waited till anyone else was in office

he would be a golden child.

[quinnox]

12. Now that is absolute truth. And you would think when you have Dick Cheney on your side in condemning

Snowden, and find yourself in vigorous agreement with "Darth", it might give you a little pause for reflection. It certainly would for me!

[cui bono]

20. That is exactly it!

Sadly though, the comics you reference have a lot more depth than the knee jerk binary thinking posts on here do.
A lot more.

[LittleBlue]

21. Holy shi-

That is perfect.

[quinnox]

23. Heh, thanks

It actually is one of the top hits when you google the words "Obama" and "hero", what can I say.

[JoeyT]

30. It's funny how the people insisting Snowden is awful

are the exact same bunch that defended not prosecuting war crimes, and Rick Warren, and extending the Bush tax cuts, and free trade agreements.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

[quinnox]

36. You noticed that too?

Yep, you are 100% correct in that observation.

[Maedhros]

46. Remember when the "Reagan Democrats" jumped ship and gave us St. Ronnie?

Now we have "Obama Republicans" jumping ship, which is just the Reagan Democrats coming home.

They loved them some Reagan, and they love them some National Security State as well. Big, strong Daddy in the White House will save us from the Commies Terrorists.

[fascisthunter]

55. Interesting, isn't it?

[BelgianMadCow]

123. glad to see it pointed out

I also noticed that.

[BlueInPhilly]

133. Wrong

I think Snowden is a thief, a liar, a little man with delusions of grandeur. But I certainly do not defend the prosecution of war crimes, I think Rick Warren is a face, the Bush tax cut should be extended for the lower 99%, and free trade agreement is a basic economic principle.

[treestar]

69. Well he is definitely a moron.

What does he mean, he would not get a trial? That's ridiculous.

[NealK]

233. You really don't know?

Then I guess that for some ignorance truly is bliss.

[Autumn]

7. Recommended

I want more .

[Catherina]

16. +1 . Keep it coming

[Blue_Tires]

9. If the biggest are "still yet to come",

doesn't that mean he's been holding back?

[tridim]

13. If only he didn't destroy his freedom, he would have a bright future as a TV pitchman...

Selling his buckets of crap to all the naïve Libertarians, plus S&H.

[Luminous Animal]

34. He has nothing to hold back. All that he had, he handed over to reporters.

I read the article though, and what the headline suggests is stated nowhere in the article.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

102. If it is so important and shocking

why has he been holding back? Cause we should know if there is anything critically important, right? Who died and made him the arbiter for deciding what documents the public should and shouldn't have and when we should have them? He's blasting the government for controlling information but isn't that what he is essentially doing? It's stuff like this that makes me uneasy about him doing what he is doing.

[morningfog]

119. Yes, as a condition of staying in Russia.

[SidDithers]

11. Paul fucking Revere!!...nt

Sid

[closeupready]

18. Consanquination - affirmative!

Flushing osmosis carousel sprinkles.

[SunsetDreams]

15. What is the hold up? nt

[MineralMan]

22. Er, uh...the timing's not right.

When a boost to someone's new media venture is needed, the time will be right to drop some more NSA briefing slides into the public domain. Wait for it. There is much milking to be done, yet.

[SunsetDreams]

27. I just hope it's not like one of those movie trailers

The buildup to the long awaited movie looks awesome. Then you go to the theater only to find out you've been duped.

If he really has something, release it already. If you really are after change, tell us EVERYTHING that needs to be changed. Give us the goods already.

[Hissyspit]

28. Or maybe they just know how to force people to pay attention instead of ignoring the news dumps

as has been done in the past.

[Maedhros]

53. I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Manning release of information

to Wikileaks.

"It's too much, all at once!"

"Manning just dumped everything with no vetting!"

"Traitor!"

"Thought Crime!"

Now that Snowden's information is being released slowly, with careful vetting, the criticisms have changed their flavor but not their intent: demonize the messenger, disrupt the conversation, distract from the issue.

[hueymahl]

64. +1 "Thought Crime" Excellent!!

[Hissyspit]

90. Yup.

[Bobbie Jo]

25. Marketing ploy.

Stay tuned!

[Hissyspit]

32. Or maybe they just know how to force people to pay attention instead of ignoring the news dumps l

as has been done in the past.

[Bobbie Jo]

224. Like I said, a ploy.

ploy noun \ˈplȯi\
: a clever trick or plan that is used to get someone to do something or to gain an advantage over someone.

[fascisthunter]

277. Smart Move by Snowden

Dumping all that info at once makes it easier for people to miss. I'd say he's doing exactly what you don't want him to do, because it makes it harder and harder for you and others to dismiss and distract from the info he reveals.

[Hissyspit]

31. What's the hurry?

[SunsetDreams]

38. Oh I don't know..

let's just let NSA carry on with their atrocities, while someone plays games with releasing the information they have.

[Hissyspit]

86. "Plays games..."

Or maybe does it right to get what needs to be done done.

It seems to me the strategies are working pretty well. We shall see.

[morningfog]

118. Russia said he couldn't continue with leaks if he wanted to stay.

Maybe that condition is about to change.

[Maedhros]

152. Snowden handed all of his information off to Greenwald et al.

prior to going to Russia.

He couldn't leak anything even if he wanted to. He doesn't have it anymore.

[sunnystarr]

164. I can hand you all the info I have

on my computer and still have the info. He didn't have what he took in hard copy.

[randome]

17. It isn't as much fun to mock Snowden as it used to be.

He's starting to remind me of this guy.



And he got old real quick.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Hissyspit]

29. You've got nothing, as usual.

[NealK]

234. Yep. nt

[DesMoinesDem]

35. That's too bad. Your attacks were so lame they were amusing.

Powerpoint slides don't prove anything! He doesn't know what FTP is! He left his fiance! Nobody at SXSW likes him!

LOL

[Luminous Animal]

43. You forgot, "It's only metadata."

[closeupready]

50. Oh, and 'his farts warp time'.

[grasswire]

109. Are you posting over at First Look?

Just curious. I think I see a resemblance to a poster over there.

[arcane1]

19. Potentially stupid question:

I had no idea that there were over a million documents involved. Did he have time to review all of them before releasing them? Is it possible that there are documents whose contents he is totally unaware of?

[MineralMan]

24. Just you wait. Before long, the NSA toilet paper changeover schedule

will appear and we'll all know the inner workings of the secret toilets at Ft. Meade. Once that breaks, the brown stuff will really hit the fan. You won't believe what the NSA can discover about you with their latest fecal analysis technology.

[Luminous Animal]

37. The government makes that claim. He and Greenwald says the government is making things up.

[arcane1]

57. That wouldn't surprise me. Do either of them have an approximate count of the files?

[Luminous Animal]

77. Likely then do given that all accounts have reported that they are meticulously indexed.

But neither have revealed the exact count. I think it is hilarious that the government's number keep rising over the months. First it was 200,000... then is was up to 600,000 and then finally (due to a leak of a classified document ! ) it was reported 1.7 million.

Immediately after the 1.7 million number was "leaked" to the press, pundits and propagandists rolled out another session of "he's a traitor."

[msanthrope]

58. About 1.7 million. No...he didn't read them. But I have no doubt the Russians are. nt

[Maedhros]

87. Why? He didn't take any of them to Russia with him.

All the documents had been provided to journalists and were not on his laptop or otherwise in his possession

Unless you can provide some sort of evidence to back up your claim.

[msanthrope]

120. I find it curious that you think that's a credible narrative. nt

[Maedhros]

156. It makes perfect sense that he would sequester the documents prior to traveling.

If, as you and your cadre insist, Snowden is milking this situation for all its worth then the documents are his meal ticket. The minute Russia gains possession of the documents he loses his meal ticket, so it's in his interest to not present them with the opportunity to do so.

From the other side of the equation, if Snowden had the information with him when he left Hong Kong then it would be really stupid for the United States to revoke his passport when he reached Moscow. Doing so would put the information at risk of being compromised by a foreign power.

Unfounded assertion is unfounded. Try again when you have some evidence.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Hell, the NSA has admitted even they don't know what's in the documents.

[arcane1]

66. That part at least makes some sense.

If I copied some files from my work computer to a flash drive, my employer would have no way of knowing which files I copied, unless I told them which ones.

[struggle4progress]

160. Since he was at BAH only three months, he would have had to review a new document every five seconds

24/7 during that period to review all 1.7 million documents -- and since he presumably had to do other things also during that time (eat and sleep, shower, shave, shizz, shop, drive back and forth to work, do some work at BAH, spend some quality time with the girlfriend, and so on) documents must have generally have gotten considerably less review time than that

[sunnystarr]

166. That's the very reason I don't consider him a whistleblower

He had no clue what he was downloading until it was done. So I have to agree that he was a thief - although a thief actually knows what they are stealing. He just knew there was smoke and hoped he captured the fire. I just can't condone what he did because of the way he did it. He's an opportunist at best.

[Maedhros]

221. Huh?

He had no clue what he was downloading until it was done.

You have no way of knowing if this is true, and no way of testing your assumption. Yet you base your analysis of Snowden's actions on this unfounded assumption.

This must be the new meme from headquarters: Snowden is a "thief" and an "opportunist." I always find it interesting when clumps of posters show up using the same phrases.

[woo me with science]

26. K&R. I see the NSA defense brigade is already here doing their smear.

Last edited Tue Mar 18, 2014, 09:15 PM - Edit history (1)

States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines:

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

The influx will continue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4216987

[TomClash]

239. Thank you for the collection of links

I had missed some of them.

[brooklynite]

33. If these revelations are so big and important...

...why has he held them back for months?

[perdita9]

51. Snowden's like a spoiled toddler...

.... screaming, "Look at me! Look at what I did!" over and over again.

This was never about the American people. It's all about Snowden's ego.

[fascisthunter]

54. I Noticed He isn't the Whiner Here

[frylock]

199. well played

[Whisp]

83. and Greenwald's bank account...

Eddie has no idea that GG will not be sharing much out of his bank account. chump

[LondonReign2]

308. I'm convinced there is a never ending

number of new accounts created on DU to reccyle the same old worn out bullshit.

[ucrdem]

40. Sounds like he got his Skype channels mixed up

Hey a guy gets lonely . . .

[MADem]

41. Wait a minute--I thought all this stuff was fact, not "an accusation."

So basically, he's sitting over in Russia, tossing out...accusations?

And people are still paying attention to him?

"I am living proof that an individual can go head to head with the most powerful intelligence agencies around the world — and win," Snowden said.

I wouldn't call that much of a "win," to be trapped in Pootie's empire.

[Cha]

153. No, Snowden doesn't have a fucking god-complex. Not at all.

Yeah, Ed's a real winner all right.. dishing from Russia.



"OK, I've Had It With The Moral Posturing of Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden"..

snip//

"He did mockingly tweet this morning, "Has Snowden condemned the earthquake in LA yet?"

His point being, I suppose, that Greenwald and Snowden are not required to comment on all events. My point being that the LA earthquake has not enabled Snowden's actions."

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/03/17/ok_i_have_had_it_with_the_moral_posturing_of_glenn_greenwald_and_edward_snowden

[Logical]

194. Do you gave two accounts here? LOL! nt

[Bobbie Jo]

197. Do you? LOL nt

[WillyT]

42. Ah... Loves Me Some Snowwald...

[LiberalAndProud]

45. Okay, but ...

having that familiar sense of deja vu all over again ...

Greenwald on Snowden Leaks: The Worst Is Yet to Come
By Vivienne Walt / Rio de Janeiro @vivwaltOct. 14, 2013
http://world.time.com/2013/10/14/greenwald-on-snowden-leaks-the-worst-is-yet-to-come/

October 2013

So, we anxiously await the next installment. Really.

[bravenak]

131. This was the reveal that they tweeted about.

They are revealing that they will reveal something nextime they have a revealing. The next reveal will be a reveal about another reveal.

[perdita9]

49. Snowden stole millions of documents...

...to go through them at his leisure and see if there was lawlessness to be found?

Snowden is a self-aggrandizing narcissist, not an American hero.

[Luminous Animal]

52. Snowden says the government is talking out of its ass.

And he no more copied 1.7 million documents than did Al Gore invent the internet

[Maedhros]

223. Shhh! You're interrupting the meme.

If they say it's so, over and over again, it becomes true! Magically!

[ProSense]

56. LOL! "'I don't want to harm my government' he said."

In a surprise appearance via satellite robot at the 2014 TED conference in Vancouver, Snowden said there is still a lot of reporting to be done, including diving deeper into the accusation that the NSA tricks companies into building backdoors into their systems that make data vulnerable to hackers across the world.

Breaking: Snowden to rehash stuff and pretend it's new, again.

Greenwald and Snowden can't admit that they're recycling information, each time with a new spin.

The problem for them seems to be what Greenwald alluded to previously : Snowden may have a lot of information in his possession, but much of it is irrelevant to domestic spying.

After talking about documents they can't or has no intention of publishing, that's all they can do is rehash and spin.

Remember this:

"I realize Carl Bernstein hasn't done any actual reporting for a couple decades now, but he should nonetheless take the time to read what he's opining on," he wrote. "The Reuters article he's referencing is a complete distortion of what I actually said in that interview. The point I made is the opposite one: that Snowden has been as responsible as a whistleblower can be in ensuring that only information the public should know is revealed, but not gratuitously harmful information."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/07/carl-bernstein-greenwald-out-of-line-168286.html

Greenwald tries to do damage control
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023244823

[randome]

60. Is there no reporter Greenwald can get along with?

He needs some alone time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[JI7]

75. is he saying corporations are victims of the NSA ? that the businesses themselves

have don't want tracking info on people but NSA makes them do it ?

[krawhitham]

175. corporations are people too

[Logical]

130. Why are you whining.....

Look on the bright side....

The more stuff he releases the more you get to post 1000 word posts with 10 links to other posts you made 3 months ago that no one will read and then you get to kick your own posts some more.

It is like heaven for you!

[malokvale77]

192. That made me laugh...

so hard my side hurts.

[NealK]

235. ROFL!

So true.

[Cha]

214. Yeah, Ed "didn't want to harm his own government"..

snip//

"He handed over documents about American cyber warfare against China — to China. Specifically, Snowden gave the documents to a Hong Kong publication. Perhaps he was emboldened by all of the attention, hero worship and deification he received here. Who knows. Whatever drove him to do it, it was phenomenally irresponsible on a couple of fronts. Not only could he have exacerbated an already dubious international relationship, considering how there appears to be an escalating hacking war between the United States and China, but he also managed to turn numerous Americans against him — Americans who believe he crossed the line from whistleblower to traitor.



TDB

Oh, there's GG hurling his insults at Carl Bernstein.. I think that's why his fans like him no matter what claptrap he comes up with.. It's the way he can jab somebody who doesn't agree with him. He's such smooth slick piece of shit.

[TwilightGardener]

63. The spy who "loves" us. Sure, the US will give you immunity!

Come on home, Special Ed!

[treestar]

70. Special Ed

I like that one - though some people will say it's politically incorrect and take it as making fun of people in Special Ed. But that's the gist of Ed's arguments, he is special, and should not have to answer to charges like anyone else.

[TwilightGardener]

74. Ed's not dumb. He's a crafty little shitweasel. With delusions of grandeur.

[Cha]

167. Ed's a savior in his own mind..

snip//

"He handed over documents about American cyber warfare against China — to China. Specifically, Snowden gave the documents to a Hong Kong publication. Perhaps he was emboldened by all of the attention, hero worship and deification he received here. Who knows. Whatever drove him to do it, it was phenomenally irresponsible on a couple of fronts. Not only could he have exacerbated an already dubious international relationship, considering how there appears to be an escalating hacking war between the United States and China, but he also managed to turn numerous Americans against him — Americans who believe he crossed the line from whistleblower to traitor.



TDB

[TwilightGardener]

187. +1000, yup.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. The NSA should release the info and take the wind out of evil Snoden's sails.

Or, they could hire a lot more Snowdens and have it done for them.

Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. Lord Acton

[treestar]

68. How many times have he and Glenn said this already?

Ed seems to think there is no terrorism at all (so do his supporters).

Guilt without trial? He would have a trial. He is ridiculous.

[B Calm]

71. Well seeing how he hasn't revealed anything so far that we

didn't already knew, more of the same?

[reddread]

76. suspicion isnt knowledge

be fair. if you can.

[Hissyspit]

94. False.

And repeatedly debunked. But keep up Talking-Point Theatre. It's interesting.

[B Calm]

138. What great revelation has he revealed that we

didn't already know?

[OnyxCollie]

176. Before Snowden,

millions of Verizon business customers could only speculate that they were being spied on.

Now they can show legal standing.

Is that so difficult to comprehend?

[B Calm]

240. OMG

LOL

[OnyxCollie]

255. Are you being intentionally obtuse,

or have you always had difficulty understanding simple facts?

[Logical]

195. LOL, read more, whine less! nt

[frylock]

202. of course, that's why everyone is shitting their collective pants..

over this stuff we already know.

[Zorra]

73. I'm stocking up on food and other necessities, in case of spontaneous revolution.

[Thinkingabout]

82. Snowden said he did not want to harm his government, I guess this is what a traitor would not want

to do, so he doesn't want to harm Russia. He chose Russia, they will be glad to know he does not want to harm the Russian government.

[Hissyspit]

91. All the evidence points to his NOT "choosing" Russia.

[Thinkingabout]

95. Did he choose to leave the Us?

[Hissyspit]

159. Yes.

He went to Hong Kong.

[BlueInPhilly]

132. Why is he still in Russia, then? He can always come home and defend himself

[malokvale77]

193. I had a lot more respect for you before...

you posted this silly statement, "He chose Russia".

[Thinkingabout]

204. the US did not force him, I did not force him, he could return to the US, he has not been a good

citizen, silly comes from his decisions and moves. If he does not like Russia then maybe he should tell Russia what he does not like about their country.

[malokvale77]

211. Even sillier...

Sorry, I'm not that brainwashed. I can still think.

[Thinkingabout]

249. You are apparently very brainwashed, freedoms cover a large range, I will continue to exercise my

Freedoms, this is a serious matter, look over the complete horizon before declaring someone to be silly. Putin does not need to be enhanced, Snowden has been putty in Putin's hands.

[malokvale77]

319. I'm brainwashed?

No, this brain is full of all kinds of muckety muck. It will never be washed clean.

[AzDar]

97. K & R

[kardonb]

98. revelations

yeah yeah , it takes tim to dream up some "new" garbage .

[Maedhros]

225. What's up with you people? I keep putting you all on ignore for posting this empty,

fact-less nonsense, but then a whole new flock shows up with the same talking points.

[Oilwellian]

101. I suspect the corporate espionage aspect of the NSA...

will really bring some weight down on our corporate congress. Perhaps that is what will get them to make the necessary changes.

For those who imply Snowden is controlling when the documents come out...that's just not how it's worked. He gave the documents to various newspapers around the world and it is they who are vetting the information and choosing what and when to report.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

104. That isn't supposed to be their job nor Snowden's

A civilian throwing a bunch of classified intelligence information out there "into the wild" is reckless and irresponsible at best IMHO. By the time the various journalists see the documents and realize whether or not they have something that could be potentially harmful it will be too late.

[Oilwellian]

136. When you have a system as thoroughly corrupt as ours...

It's no surprise to see a civilian approach the media for a solution. That's what whistleblowers DO. Are you saying there should be no whistleblowers and who do you suggest they contact if not the media?

[hueymahl]

173. That is EXACTLY the media's job

They aren't called the fourth branch of the government for nothing. The media is critical to making government work, to keeping it accountable to the people, to allowing and fostering whistleblowing of corruption, extra-legal activities and unconstitutional activities.

Jesus, its like people around here have completely forgotten every civics lesson learned in high school.

[malokvale77]

198. It makes me think they are quite young...

Most schools haven't taught civics or critical thinking in decades.

This is the result. It was on purpose.

[Maedhros]

227. You are unclear as to the function of an adversarial press.

Very unclear, for a proud "liberal" Dem.

[KansDem]

106. Release the communiqués dated on and around 9/11/2001...nt

[Purveyor]

184. I would have to get up and change my sheets after that dream, if he has the info. eom

[Turbineguy]

108. What DU needs is a

"Snowden is a hero" smilie.

[Kolesar]

115. With Vlad Putin's face on it

[BeyondGeography]

116. It's beginning to feel a lot like Fitzmas

[OnyxCollie]

179. Why? Is David Margolis around?

[morningfog]

117. When Russia agreed to let him stay, it was conditioned on "not harming US more."

Perhaps the Crimea sanctions have changes the calculus and the terms of his residency. Perhaps he is about to be permitted to release what he wants, without the risk of extradition.

[bemildred]

212. He does seem to be more active, doing interviews and such.

Lately, I thought that too. But I don't think he has the stuff with him, he said that anyway.

[politicman]

139. message to everyone ont this board.

Am I really on a board for progressives? Because it seems to me like this place is turning more and more into the version of a right wing board.

Reading comments from 'supposed' progressives and democrats who will bend reality and make hypocritical and selective comments about how Snowden is a traitor because he did his 'stealing' of documents under Obama, when these same people would hail him as a hero if it was under bush.

Have read plenty of comments in the past showing support for the murderous crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood protestors when just before that these same people were applauding the anti-Muslim protestors.

Worse yet is reading comments of how great Obamas drone program is whilst at the same time condemning Bush for killing innocent people both with his drone program and with wars.

Not to mention the hypocrisy and selective nature of what happened in the Ukraine only because it resulted in a government that is pro-western and pro-Obama.


I implore all the types of people that make the above selective justifications to think of how you are destroying the fabric of the progressive message and doing exactly what we ridicule conservatives for doing.

[OnyxCollie]

183. Welcome to DU!

Where all is not as it seems, particularly when it comes to "progressives" who despise whistleblowers and love the surveillance state.

[Oilwellian]

222. "Third Way" policies have divided the party

I've thought for quite some time that's by oligarchic design.

[Maedhros]

229. I just put about six people in this thread on ignore.

The more I do so, the more the site transforms from a middle school cafeteria into an actual discussion forum.

[stonecutter357]

250. Way would you do that.

I can't stand Libertarians are Republicans,that being said i think snowden is a traitor.

[Enthusiast]

245. 'supposed' progressives and democrats

[woo me with science]

316. States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines.

Conversations are not always what they appear to be. Observe long enough, and you'll see...

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate"
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

The influx will continue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4216987

[gcomeau]

140. Sigh. Let me guess...

The next stunning revelation will be "Intelligence agency conducting intelligence gathering activities". Which will be even bigger and more stunning than the last 15 or 30 "Intelligence agency conducts intelligence gathering activities" revelations.

[B Calm]

142. LOL +1

[Hissyspit]

161. Yes, because that's all that it's about.

In a massively over-simplistic way.

[WillyT]

145. And Yet... Even Q-Ball Thinks That The Snowden Revelations Need To Be Discussed/Litigated...

THE SNOWDEN EFFECT: Edward Snowden has accelerated a necessary and inevitable debate in American society regarding surveillance. In the course of doing so, however, I believe that Snowden has badly shaped this debate and, in the course of this acceleration, created a media frenzy that is largely focused on headline-grabbing sensationalism rather than speaking to the hard facts.

And...

In the end, neither the NSA nor the CIA wants to do things that are not consistent with the consensus view of American values. Our intelligence agencies must, and will, accept any delimitation defined by the American citizenry.

Tell me where the lines are. Just give me that political and legal guidance, and we'll go play hardball. We'll stay inside the box. At the same time, we will have to say "this will make you a little more comfortable, and it's going to make you a little less safe." We get it, but let's shake hands on that last part -- "a little less safe."

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-v-hayden/snowden-surveillance_b_4983206.html

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024684806

[Cha]

165. It's Ed's special installment plan.. to coincide with greenwald's big book about how

wonderful they are .

[Bernardo de La Paz]

146. How does a "satellite robot" differ from a "satellite" and how does it apply here?

The article had no information on this point.

Is it just hipper for a 20-something to write "satellite robot" instead of "satellite"?

[blkmusclmachine]

171. Thanks, 9/11...

[pacalo]

230. Bingo.

[Whisp]

208. "Is it really terrorism that we're stopping? I say no," Snowden said.

and who the fuck are you, you little traitor coward, to bless us with your pathetic wisdoms of the world.

gawd, this guy is insufferable. A know it all know nothing.

[ucrdem]

218. He's Paul Revere with one legally executed FISA warrant, expired;

some random PowerPoint presentations, and 1.5 million unread docs, stolen from his employers and fenced to Glenn, supposedly, although GG seems to have been written out of the tale per the latest WaPo whopper.

And that about covers it.

[bobduca]

329. Dems have the lock on the internet tough guy vote in 2014 n/t

[ucrdem]

226. I guess Snowden is just a piece in a jigsaw puzzle - a missing piece.

[pnwmom]

236. Why isn't he speaking out against Russia? Because they're so much more open and free than we are?nt

[harun]

297. 1. Not his job. 2. Russia wasn't his employer. 3. He isn't a Russian Citizen. 4. Russia is the only

thing standing between him and the pitchforks.

5. Russia never claimed to be a free country.
6. Russia never claimed to be the land of liberty.
7. Russia doesn't have the U.S. Constitution.

8. Are you fucking serious?

[tofuandbeer]

237. Wow. The jury decisions in this thread seem over the top. Am I missing something?

I've seen much worse on DU not blocked.
...uh oh.

[nikto]

238. People who hate Snowden...

LOVE big government.

It's empirical.

[B Calm]

243. Love Big Government

Seriously, isn't that a right wing statement?

[Bobbie Jo]

248. "big government?"

Sheesh

Naw....no libertarians here. Nope.

[B Calm]

318. Do you think they are being paid to post right wing Libertarian propaganda

on Democratic sites?

[Sheepshank]

260. And many people who breathe are dumber than shit

how many more unrelated correlations can anyone come up with?

[nikto]

326. ALL OF YOU Snowden-haters--Use your brains!

A Government that collects vast metadata to SPY on all its citizens on a continuous basis
to troll for "terrorists", as claimed, is the very epitome of big government.

And doing it in secret, and lying about it to Congress as well.

We are not talking about desirable and needed large government services FOR The People,
like healthcare, infrastructure rebuilding programs, Social Security, food stamps, low-cost education loans, etc etc.

No no. All that stuff is either being attacked, not done much at all, cut or "reformed" (i.e. CUT).

NSA spying is Big Brother watching us all, profiling us all, treating everyone like suspects.

I mean, do I really have to explain this to you folks?
Honestly?



Sheesh.

Dense, much?
Sorry if I haven't been clear enough.

Or do you just love authoritarian Government that distrusts its own citizens, including YOU?

I assert, once more:


Snowden is a hero to people who value their freedom, and realize that without the right-to-privacy,
there is no freedom.

Are you folks Cheney-bot neocons, or what?

Must be a communication problem.

[Sheepshank]

328. you have the balls to tell others they are dense?

You are clear enough. Your inability to separate hero worship from real freedom should clue you in who is really dense.

Snowden is not any sort of hero. Your blind loyalty is sickening.

[nikto]

333. Pray tell, what are you loyal to?

And I am no Libertarian. Just an old-fashioned FDR Progressive, updated to 2014.

Snowden's act was classic, principled Civil Disobedience.

I proudly stand with the "old fogies", like this guy:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/john-lewis-civil-rights-edward-snowden


If the people who attack Snowden as a traitor are to be the chief guardians of freedom, then freedom
in America won't have the life expectancy of a fruit fly.

[Sheepshank]

337. I don't believe one fucking word you have to say

In your own words. "Are you folks Cheney-bot neocons...? "



You insult me, call me disgusting names, insult the intelligence of everyone on the board because they are not lock step behind your statments, and then look for a reasonable discussion? Pray all you want, I owe you no explanation. Your praying comes too late honey, your credibility is in the toilet and your true colors were already waved for all to see.

Snowden is not a guardian of anything. He is a liar and a thief. You know nothing about him personally but assign him hero status? You know nothing about me but I'm a Republican? I am supposed to take heed of your words when you have already proven to be incorrect? Good luck with that.

[nikto]

338. So you agree, "Cheney-Bot" is an insult?

That's a start.

[Enthusiast]

241. K&R!

I could have said this without having access to secret documents. I think most of us could say it. Oh, but not the sockpuppets. It is the big secret the sockpuppets are trying to protect.

"Is it really terrorism that we're stopping? I say no," Snowden said. "The bottom line is that terrorism has always been a cover for actions. Terrorism evokes an emotional response."

[NuclearDem]

247. Well then fucking release them!

Jesus Christ, what an attention whore!

[Hissyspit]

254. Only because you don't like him.

There are clear, logical reasons to do it this way.

[NuclearDem]

256. No, I don't like him. Yes, I approve of the leaks.

In fact, I approve of the leaks so much I'm pissed that he's holding back what could be valuable information vital to getting this ridiculous surveillance apparatus under control.

[fascisthunter]

280. Haha... he's Smarter Than That

He's going to release the info drip by drip, so that the info doesn't get lost in a massive dump. Also makes it harder for some to dismiss and distract from, doesn't it?

"Grrrrrr.... dagnabbit!"

[NuclearDem]

299. Are you implying I'm against NSA reforms or against the leaks?

[ecstatic]

253. this should concern his biggest fans

If he has info that is important, why did he hold back, especially given the backdrop of current events right now. He is NSA-lite, it seems. I don't remember electing him to such an important position.

[Cha]

340. 'cause he's a fucking noodge and it has to co-ordinate with greenwald's next publicity stunt.

For suckers only.

[Blue_Tires]

263. The *biggest* revelation will still be when we find out

what kind of deal was made with the Russians...

[fascisthunter]

265. Did you Hear that Popcorn Popping?

Those were actually little heads exploding.

[chrisa]

317. This guy is from the Assange School of Showmanship

[woo me with science]

327. kick

[nikto]

335. This man would be heartened...

To see how many soulmates he has on this thread who share the same hostiity
towards Snowden...

Or as the man himself might say...




Bigtime.

[nikto]

336. So BIGTIME, it's old news...

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/28/dick-cheney-calls-snowden-a-traitor-defends-nsa/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/16/dick-cheney-edward-snowden_n_3450006.html



So many Cheney-Bots on this thread!