Just so I understand what you people are saying, the Obama Administration engineered a Neo-Nazi coup

[MNBrewer]

in Ukraine? Actually PUT Neo-Nazis into control of the Ukrainian governmental apparatus.

And if not the Obama Administration, "The West", or Neo-Cons.... or something, but definitely US Government.

Is THAT what you people are saying? Really?

[JI7]

1. why do you think the plane is missing ?

they need something to distract from what we did in Ukraine

[rdharma]

2. OMG! The eternal STRAWMAN!

Have you stopped beating your wife?

[cthulu2016]

4. It is no straw man. It is an accurate and literal and

precise statement of the thesis advanced by many real DUers.

Yes... that the new Ukrainian government is Nazis.

Yes... that the "coup" was orchestrated by neo-cons in the current executive branch with either Obama's direction or tacit consent.

Yes to all of it.

It's real and has been quite a disgusting spectacle.

[MNBrewer]

5. That's sure what it looks like they're saying, but I want to hear it from the horses's mouth.

Just to pin it down and get them on the record.

[stevenleser]

47. "eternal"? I think you don't know what a straw man is. nt

[rdharma]

49. It's obvious that the OP does....

Because he employs them all the time.

[LiberalAndProud]

3. I thought it was McCain.

Shows what I know.

[JVS]

6. It's as unbelievable as thinking the Reagan administration installed muslim fundamentalists to...

positions of power in central Asia. That kind of thing could never happen.

[reformist2]

7. Yep.

[MNBrewer]

14. Where?? Exactly?

[JVS]

16. Why are you asking me for details on something so insanely ridiculous that it could never have...

happened? Are you some kind of conspiracy theorist?

[MNBrewer]

19. NO. I thought you were saying it happened and I wanted more info as I was skeptical

and No, I'm not a CT.

I do NOT believe that the Obama Administration put neo-Nazis in charge of Ukraine, for the record. But I've read posts on DU that strongly indicate the contrary and am trying to get such people to explicitly state as much.

[JVS]

22. Well that would be ridiculous because we all know that our government NEVER engages in such things.

Shame on you for even trying to encourage such ridiculous accusations. You make the entire community look awful with your provocation and your posting privileges should be revoked for your irresponsible accusations against the government.

[MNBrewer]

29. Of course the US has put fascist regimes in power

That doesn't mean it did so in this case

And

Please, alert on me. PLEASE< PRETTY PLEASE!!!!!!!

Your inability to discern who is actually making the charges is charming.

[JVS]

34. Do you have any proof of your heinous accusations against our beloved government and their trusty...

lads at the various intelligence agency alphabet soup institutions?

[Electric Monk]

20. Afghanistan

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2004/06/reagans_osama_connection.html

[MNBrewer]

27. SO, you're saying Obama put Nazis in charge of Ukraine?

[Electric Monk]

32. Wow, how the fuck did you get that from my post? You're incredible. nt

[MNBrewer]

33. SO Obama didn't put Nazis in charge of Ukraine?

Good... we're getting somewhere.

[Electric Monk]

35. I don't know for sure one way or the other, and neither do you. I'm done with this thread. nt

[morningfog]

50. Do you always have conversations with yourself? Lol.

[Rex]

8. Yeah I dunno, I've kept mostly out of those thread because

I have no idea what all that is about!

[Bonobo]

9. Good god...

[TwilightGardener]

10. It was all NGO money and cookies. State Dept. passed out cookies to protestors.

That's all it took. Ukrainians are officially the most weak-minded children on earth, I guess.

[kwassa]

23. But what was in those cookies? CIA mind-altering drugs?

Turning the protestors into robot zombies?

[JVS]

24. Giving cookies to nazis is a waste of our tax money. We should cut their funding.

[okaawhatever]

11. Yep, pretty much what quite a few here are saying. I wouldn't say they are "real DUers" but rather

long term DUers. Clearly they don't advocate the Democratic party platform. Many are socialist or communist and are very supportive of Russia, Venezuela, Cuba and other current/former communist countries.

[Bonobo]

15. "Many are socialist or communist and are very supportive of Russia, Venezuela, Cuba"

Goddamn...

[Rex]

17. Daammmmmmmmmmm...

[Zorra]

37. Lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my.

[Marr]

39. I'm finding it more and more difficult to distinguish these people from right-wingers. /nt

[Doctor_J]

26. Holy shit. DU has officially become Freeperville

Best of luck in November without the commies, socialists, Chavistas, Leninists, Marxists, pony-didn't-getters, and Sandersistas!

[Marr]

41. No kidding.

Do they really think those kinds of remarks pass for left of center, or are they just trying to claim the party as an openly right-wing entity?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

12. Alternate theories --

1. The US government is so massive entire departments can operate outside of Obama's sight to such a degree that they can topple entire governments.

2. Shadow government! Obama is just a figurehead.

[Cha]

13. The tinfoiled mad hatters think just because raygun and bush neocons

were stupidly doing shit like that then it must be true..

[Adam051188]

40. and ford, and nixon...

[killbotfactory]

45. And Carter, and Clinton, and Eisenhower...

And pretty much every significant President since the revolution.

But that's all water under the bridge.

[Why Syzygy]

18. It isn't clear..

whether or not the Neo-Nazis were part of the agenda or if they just took advantage of the unrest. But fomenting the coup, yes, the West had a hand in that. Remember, the CIA and Blackwater/whatever they call themselves these days are available to hire, and they are not technically part of the 'government'. There is much evidence to support this view. Additionally, there is testimony from the ground there that this is how it played.

[MNBrewer]

21. Ok, so you're one of "The West" conspiracy theorists. Good.

At least some of you people are willing to put your theories on the table for explicit examination.

[Why Syzygy]

28. Call it NATO

if you need a different label. They are the ones who senselessly bombed Libya, ignoring the UN resolution. Whether or not Americans recognized that for what it was, the rest of the world took notice.

[MNBrewer]

31. So it was NATO that engineered the fascist coup in Ukraine?

For reals?

[SolutionisSolidarity]

38. Numerous people have already posted evidence of agents of the US government

coordinating a regime change campaign. That's what the leaked audio of Nuland proved. She demanded that her man Yats was placed in charge of the government following the ouster of their president - and funny enough, that's just what happened. This call took place before the sniper attacks that were the event that "proved" the former president was unfit to govern, by the way.

Whether Obama was aware of such maneuvering or not is an open question. I personally think he wasn't, as this crisis just killed the peace process he's been trying to start, and boosted the Republicans in the process. Obama didn't clean house when he came into office, so it's entirely possible that Bush hangovers are causing trouble without his permission. But he did put Clinton in at SOS, and she's a hawk too. Perhaps the peace process stuff is just sop for the yokels who don't understand how important militarism is to the economy. It's hard to tell in this age whether one is too cynical or not cynical enough.

[kwassa]

25. Why don't you share some of this evidence with us?

The Blackwater connection?

[Why Syzygy]

30. MSNBC.

[kwassa]

36. wow, what a link this is. Not.

[Adam051188]

42. my sarcasm detector is pointing your way

not sure though....

[kwassa]

43. let me clear it up for you.

[killbotfactory]

44. The US and EU most likely helped them, considering the west accepted the the coup as legitimate

I doubt our very important politicians cared that they were standing shoulder to shoulder with neo nazi's, considering most people in the US aren't familiar with the various political factions in Ukraine.

They were trying to flip Ukraine into the western sphere of influence, and accepted what was essentially an unconstitutional transition of power as if it was legitimate and fair, because the losers were the pro-russian faction. I guess they thought Putin would just grin and bare it.

Everything about this is shady. Welcome to global politics.

[TheKentuckian]

46. Sounds well within the boundaries of the plausible.

[Junkdrawer]

48. Read Peter Dale Scott....

The Deep State's MO is to create these events and then help force elected officials' hands via media coordination.

I think Obama has been resisting reacting to such "events" as best he can so far.....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

51. It was all a coup!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024622876

So Yanukovych gets democratically elected in 2010, and in the next four years he does nothing that would warrant mass protests from the Ukrainian people. Because corruption happens everywhere, so just deal with it, okay?

Then a bunch of neo-nazi ultra-nationalists go into Kiev and throw rocks and sticks and bottles and shit, probably because the US or EU or somebody paid them to do so. Because if you want to enact regime change to get your guy into power, paying lots and lots of people money to protest is the most efficient and effective way to do so.

Then the all-powerful failed US Presidential candidate and chronic mumbler John McCain comes in on McCain Force One and stands on a stage, looking slightly constipated. And Victoria Nuland passes out sandwiches, or maybe donuts (pampushky as they are known locally).

Then the neo-Nazi ultra-nationalists go back to throwing rocks and sticks and bottles and shit.

Then some of the neo-Nazi ultranationalists get shot by snipers, but really, they were probably just shooting themselves, so whateves.

Then someone waves a magic wand, God comes out of the machine, and Yanukoyvch is no longer the Ukrainian president and Svoboda is now in charge. Pretty much permanently, because it's not like they've scheduled elections in the upcoming months.

And clearly it's Svoboda who the US/UK/EU/CIA/IMF/NATO wants in charge, because when you think people who outside foreign powers think are the easiest to have their bidding done on their behalf, it's domestic ultranationalists.

Oh, and did I mention that it's the ultranationalist neo-nazis who are now in charge of Ukraine, and not an interim government lead by moderate centrists? Because that's what it is.

Oh, and Russia invades Crimea with its very special force of Not Russian Russian Troops, but that's okay. Not that we like Putin or anything, but back in the day Russia controlled Crimea for its very special Russification/Expelling the Tatars project, so really it's not like it's foreign soil for them. Plus, Ukraine outlawed the speaking of Russian in Ukraine, so there's that, too.

Plus we as Americans are morally prohibited from criticizing Russia's actions because our last idiot of a President also invaded a foreign country on pretextual purposes. And once that is done, there is no way for us to reflect on our past errors and take a different approach from that point forward.

Obviously. Duh.