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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:55 AM Mar 2014

You know how Lincoln forced the south to secede?

This is a major RW Civil War revisionism talking point... that Lincoln somehow forced the confederacy to break away because of something or another he did. This is right alongside the bizarre falsehood that the secession was not primarily about a wish to retain slavery. It was.

(When someone says "tariffs" were the main issue that is often code for, "I am a white supremacist." The tariff situation was negotiable and would have been negotiated away to save the Union if there was any point in doing so, which there wasn't because slavery was non-negotiable. Every southern grievance other than people hating on slavery was well on its way to resolution. The great "complexity" of the origin of the Civil War is from a Confederacy apologist strain of remedial history that was in vogue, and taught in schools, for much of the 20th century.)

The United States did not break apart in response to anything Lincoln did. It broke apart in response to his election.

Seven states declared their secession from the United States between election day (November 1860) and when Lincoln took office on March 4, 1861. (And most or all cited slavery as the predominant reason for doing so.)

Again... the bulk of the Confederacy seceded in response to Lincoln's election.

(four more states followed after Fort Sumter, which was a month after inauguration day.)

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Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
1. Somebody had to stand up against "Northern aggression"!
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:58 AM
Mar 2014

They were really aggressive at the ballots, what with electing their candidate of choice and all. And don't you even mention that the South handed Lincoln the election by splitting the Democratic ticket... More "northern aggression" right there!
 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
3. It makes me sick that even in school we're taught that it wasn't just slavery...
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:03 PM
Mar 2014

That the differences between the ways of life were so different...that is absolute fucking revisionist bullshit...slavery is the one and only thing that caused the war, the rest are just ancillary and there never would have been a seccession execpt for slavery...bullshit that the south would have seceeded over tariffs and shit like that.

former9thward

(32,003 posts)
4. Lincoln wanted to save the Union.
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:12 PM
Mar 2014

Slavery was not why he went to war to bring the Confederate states back. Slavery was the reason the southern states left.

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. Abraham Lincoln letter to Horace Greeley

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. The white wing bigots lie. They need to read/comprehend the various Declarations of Secession.
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:25 PM
Mar 2014

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the
Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. . . . . . .

Mississippi's is the most direct, but states proclaimed much the same.


I remember years ago listening to a Randi Rhodes radio show. Some fool was babbling on about most of the south did not even own slaves. Rhodes said something like, "yeah, I can see some poor, non-slave owning farmers sitting around and saying, 'we better join this war because old Mr. Beauregard ain't gonna pick his own cotton.'"

I also detest those who say nowadays that the "confederate flag is not racist, it's heritage" (same for that dang yellow Tbag "Gadsden" flag).



Gothmog

(145,213 posts)
6. Jon Stewart took apart some of the claims last week
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:29 PM
Mar 2014

This is all revisionist history that has no basis in reality

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
7. True, but in a misbegotten wish to appease..
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:58 PM
Mar 2014

certain corners, we whitewash the reality of slavery and its legacy.

If he had lived, perhaps Lincoln could have done better than the horrorshow that was Reconstruction. Killing Lincoln did not avenge the South, it damn near destroyed it.

mzteris

(16,232 posts)
8. oh please
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:14 PM
Mar 2014

The most unCivil war was machinated by the North and that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that they gave a rats ass about slaves. The only thing they cared about the slaves was, is that it gave the South a lot of cheap basically free labor.

This gave them the ability to produce very cheap product which made it affordable to for foreign countries - like FRANCE - to come in and buy up the cotton and ship. The North - a manufacturing environment, was heavily dependent on that cotton. They didn't want it shipping out. They didn't want prices going up. They didn't want competition.

They may have manipulated the South into thinking "they're coming for our SLAVES!" (sounds a lot like "they're coming for our guns!" and "they're coming for our "Bibles", but anyway. . . )

And FWIW - Lincoln actually didn't really give a rats ass either. While he may have thought slavery "morally wrong", he wasn't an abolitionist and didn't really want to mess with the status quo . He only wanted to "keep the Union together" he didn't care one way or another if slaves were freed or not. “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.

It was a political and military decision to write the Emancipation Proclamation (which - btw - did NOT apply to every state). The northern masses were emotionally manipulated into fighting for their Manufacturing overlords. He didn't believe blacks should have the SAME RIGHTS as whites. Abraham Lincoln, “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites." he also thought "colonization a great idea - you know - shipping them back to Africa - specifically Liberia from when they all did NOT come.

That for the SOUTH, it was very much about slavery is true. But again - that was a whole lot on economics. Although by that time, it had become such an ingrained sick way of life they couldn't even entertain the notion of anything else. They thought slaves were animals put here by gawd to serve them. That they - the whites - were "doing them a favor" by taking care of them as they couldn't be own their on.

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