Can we all give PBO a big HELL YES and/or THANK YOU for no war in Ukraine ?

[steve2470]

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:57 PM - Edit history (4)

I give him gigantic credit for that.

eta: He could be pandering to a base with "I'm thinking of all options on the table" kinda BS.

I give him credit for a big NO. YMMV.

If you think it's no Big Fucking Deal, we agree to disagree. No pandering to a warmongering base is huge to me. YMMV.

eta2: It's just nice that with PBO, there is absolutely no BS saber rattling or even discussion of it. Yes, on March 2, Kerry mentioned all options on table. I see that's been rescinded.

Things would have to get extremely bad in that part of the world for PBO to even consider war. That's what I'm really thankful for. The other idiots would be ramping up DoD at the first semi-sane opportunity.

eta3: Perfectionism versus recognition of positive efforts. I choose the latter approach with President Obama.

eta4: He also deserves credit for pursuing a sane diplomatic policy over the Crimea and Ukraine. That's really my point.

[quinnox]

1. Of course its good, but do you really think that was a tough one?

Seems like a no-brainer to me. I mean, only a Bush Jr. caliber idiot would even consider a military response.

[steve2470]

3. let's put it this way

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

He could be pandering to a base with "I'm thinking of all options on the table" kinda BS.

I give him credit for a big NO. YMMV.

[quinnox]

7. Ah, ok, now I see your point

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Of course he has no pro war base to pander to. His supporters would oppose such

aggression and those who like to make war despise Obama, they are not his base. 'A base' is a turn of phrase because you know 'the Obama base' would protest any military action. Perhaps then it is credit to be shared with the elected and those who elected him?

[steve2470]

32. yes, the credit is shared with the elected and we Democrats

I'm so glad we in the "Democratic base" are anti-war. Credit also goes to non-Democrats who voted for him.

[Bluenorthwest]

178. Please note it is you mentioning Party affiliation, not me.

It's just 'he could have been pandering to a base' requires that he have such a base. He did not. It's simple.

[DonCoquixote]

123. Yes and NO

yes we do deserve a good share of the credit,however Obama deserves a lot, because there are many in his base that yes, are still warmongers.

Let me be BLUNT. President Hillary Clinton would have been at war already.

[Bluenorthwest]

179. Those assertions are just unsupported, faith based opinions. I don't agree with them.

nt

[DonCoquixote]

198. Do you deny many Democrats were revving up for war?

Some right here on DU?

if by faith based assumption (funny how that language is used in a phrase not related to religion), we know damned well that Hillary said "Assad must go" and she was the one that compared Putin to the Nazis, which of course, is the CLASSIC ramp up to war.

And if you do not think the rush to kick out Assad (who provides Russia's one link to the Mediterranean) and the push to help Ukraine (which would block Russian access to the Black Sea) are not related, then you might be making a leap of Faith.

[former9thward]

30. He did say "all options are on the table."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/03/john-kerry-all-options-on-the-table-to-hold-russia-accountable-in-ukraine/

Unless you think John Kerry is a rogue Sec. of State.

[steve2470]

34. that was March 2nd

I'm assuming the position has now changed.

afaik this is the current position: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014760549

[karynnj]

184. There were also comments - even near the same time -

that nobody wants troops on the ground or use of the military. I think - in context - that "all options are on the table" is jargon - not policy.

Though speaking on Iraq and Syria, this interview discusses Kerry's position which is to favor diplomacy. http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/02/27/kerry-fires-back-critics-peace-negotiations/j0UXroACT6M8wwlsEH6KMO/story.html

[TrollBuster9090]

54. Er...YES. When a third of the Senate Democrats gave Bush the green light to invade Iraq because

they were afraid somebody on the playground would call them 'chicken,' a third of the Senate Democrats are in the pockets of Defense Contractors, and a third of the Senate Democrats shit their pants every time they see an Israeli lobby group office number show up call alert when their phone rings....getting a Democratic President to say "NO!" to the sound of the war drums IS A VERY tough one.

[steve2470]

57. good point

The defense contractors always love it when we use their toys, even if it's 1000 miles from the Russian border.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

144. YES, but....

A Romney, McCain or Palin or any of the current occupants in the clown car who plan to run in '16 would have gotten us into a war in Syria, Iran and the Ukraine. The reasons Repugs are against "choice" is that they need canon fodder for their endless wars.

[steve2470]

149. agreed

You captured my entire point. It wasn't about the no brainer Ukraine go to war thing, it's the entire conduct of foreign policy.

[mfcorey1]

2. Hell yeah!!!!!!!

[NYC_SKP]

4. Yes, that and Thank You for ObamaCare!!!! Even the witless can get expensive meds!

And I have a friend who couldn't get any insurance at all due to a pre-existing condition and I helped her navigate the system.

It seems some people expect Obama to come right to there house and figure out how to work with insurers to find coverage for expensive medications.

It seems they can't think for themselves, they have to have a temper tantrum and post on a discussion board, and then when smarter people point out "how to do it", they insist that Obama is still a traitor.

Unbelievable.

[steve2470]

6. I agree about the ACA

Ok, the ACA is far from perfect, but IT'S A FREAKING HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE OLD SCHOOL METHOD. If PBO didn't give a shit, he would have kept the status quo.

[calimary]

28. So do I! Did anybody like what we had before?

[steve2470]

29. Insurance company executives and some doctors perhaps nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

9. He's promised to come to my house in a couple of months to help me sign up for Medicare!

[classof56]

44. Nailed it!

Kudos for helping your friend. As for me, my DU ignore list is growing.

[Whisp]

51. +++

you just gotta wonder what that was really all about.

[NYC_SKP]

105. Maybe it's some sick and twisted Hillary love thing.

I don't frackin' get it, beyond the ego.

[Cofitachequi]

52. I know that the president is not going to come to my house to help me sign up...

...but when Michele gets back from China.......

[BlancheSplanchnik]

145. he's promised to come visit me...

But that's because I asked to give him one of my famous bear hugs.

[NYC_SKP]

148. I come visit you...

Can I get a big famous bear hug?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

150. yes!

Just make sure your rib cage is strong enough--They're extra squeezy!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

202. They expect Obama to be God. Whiny wimps reminds me of the Naderites. nt

[upaloopa]

5. You really think there was a possibility that we would go to war

over Ukraine?
Come on you can do better than that.

[steve2470]

8. see post 3 nt

[TrollBuster9090]

62. Do I think anybody would send Marines into the Crimean peninsula to repulse Russian troops back

across the border? No. No brainer. Even George Bush wasn't stupid enough to send US forces into a direct confrontation with Russia (over the South Ossetia).


But PLENTY of Presidents, Senators, and assorted bottom-feeding House members would be stupid enough to do THIS:

A) Deploy NATO forces to other former Soviet Block countries
B) Bring Ukraine into NATO, and then
C) Send sophisticated US weapons to Ukraine to 'defend' themselves, thus making it easier for some hothead on either side to start an all out war between Russia and Ukrain.....thus FORCING NATO and the USA to be dragged into it.

The result is the same, and fortunately Obama (and his team) seem intelligent enough to see it.

[7962]

72. Re: "A", Kerry has said we will defend the former Soviet Bloc nations who now belong to NATO.

We are already sending jets to Poland, and are going to do military exercises with Estonia and a couple others.
And dont be so sure we wont help arm Ukraine either.

[steve2470]

74. I think Poland and Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania are ok

Arming Ukraine would be pretty damn close to poking the Russian bear. I'm not in favor of that.

[upaloopa]

95. We're you around for the Cuban missile crisis.

I was. For 13 days we didn't know if we would be killed by a nuclear attack or not. We were at defcon 2. Generals and congress were telling Kennedy to bomb Cuba. We all went to church every day.
This doesn't even begin to compare.

[ballyhoo]

160. I remember it well. I was too young to realize

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2014, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

how scary it was. I think Russia will take East Ukraine next, and we won't do much then either UNLESS Bush makes it into the White House. Hillary I think might, but it depends on what is going on at the home-front then.

[karynnj]

185. Well - given that you think WEST Ukraine (the part nearest Europe) is at risk,

I think you likely have not read all that much.

[ballyhoo]

187. Yes, my bad. I meant East. I'll change it in the post.

[NOLALady]

10. Hell Yesss!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. Why not cheer him for not invading Belgium or criminalising purple while we're at it? N.T.

[steve2470]

12. works for me :) nt

[Martin Eden]

13. No sane POTUS would go to war with Russia over the Ukraine/Crimea

So I don't see that as a particularly remarkable achievement for this president.

But I am very thankful John McCain or some other rethug isn't sitting in his chair.

[steve2470]

14. exactly nt

[TheKentuckian]

15. Not even shrub who was a bully. Thanks for not nuking ourselves, Mr. President! C'mon man!

[TheKentuckian]

16. By the by, did you get my daily thank you note for not burning down my house?

It is so hard to keep up with seven billion thank you notes a day is hard and that is just for the one thing.

[steve2470]

17. no, I missed it, but you're welcome :) nt

[sharp_stick]

35. Don't forget tomorrow dammit

it's a nice house ya' got there, shame if something happened to it because you were forgetful.

[2banon]

195. +10000 n/t

[CFLDem]

18. Yay for PBO!!!!

[think]

19. Thank you President Obama for sane discourse and for NOT

being a saber rattling neocon nut bag.

[steve2470]

20. precisely

Yeah, sure, anyone with a brain knows NOT to saber rattle at Russia but we have people like McCain and Graham and Romney and Palin and Cruz around.

I'll give the man credit where it's due. He gets plenty of criticism.

[think]

24. Yep. Obama has done many great things including getting the economy back on track

when it was on the brink after W's reign.

There are many things I disagree with in regards to his policies but I haven't forgotten the good that he and his administration has done.

Lord knows where America would be at this point had McCain made it to the oval office......

[steve2470]

26. excellent points

I don't agree with the perfectionist approach to PBO. All criticism and condemnation and NO credit or praise. Perfectionism is no way to run a country or a family.

Praise when appropriate, criticize when warranted. Works for me.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. He's walked the tightrope very well. It's not an enviable position.

On the one hand, he risks falling victim to the war hawks who dominated the last administration and can't wait to use their latest war toys.

On the other hand, he risks appeasing a clear violation of recognized international treaty and sovereignty by a government that doesn't seem willing to say no.

It's an incredibly narrow middle path, but he's managed to handle it pretty well for the most part.

[steve2470]

22. I agree

It would be beyond easy for him to drop hints and saber rattle at Russia and even deploy troops far enough from the border to not risk WW3 immediately.

The RWNJ's would be ecstatic but still hate him. We at DU would be frothing. I give the man enormous credit for being strong enough to resist the MIC. Praise the man when he does well, give constructive intelligent criticism when it's warranted.

[OmahaBlueDog]

23. Dear wingnuts. Do you want balanced budgets?

I think you do. "Washington's-out-of-control-spending" is one of the main points I hear your candidates blather about.

If you want a balanced budget, we need to start by getting out of the "World Police" business. If we can't afford to take care of Americans (which is what I constantly hear y'all tell us) then we can't afford to take care of the rest of the world either.

[steve2470]

25. good points nt

[ctsnowman]

70. Exactly!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

166. No, they don't. They just want to complain about the budget and pretend the Democrats are

to blame for all the spending. The Rs do not give a sh*t about balances budgets. They are happy to spend all the money in the world if it's on wars and 1%ers.

[steve2470]

167. you nailed it nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

170. Aw shucks. That weren't nothin'.

I mean, they're so frickin' obvious about it.

[OmahaBlueDog]

199. Funny how that works, isn't it?

George W Bush inherited a budget in surplus, but thought it was more important to cut taxes than to repay our debts. Fast forward to 9-11: Bush could have easily justified tax increases to fund counterterrorism, but instead he chose to put two wars on credit cards.

The Republicans held the White House and both houses of Congress from 2001 - 2007, so it's difficult to argue that these failures can be attributed to Obama or Clinton or the Democrats.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

201. So true. And didn't GWB tell Americans to "Go shopping."

Such an inspirational guy.

I mean, consumerism can't be our only patriotic action nor our only stimulus.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

203. Very happy. They would bankrupt this country to hand it to the 1%ers. nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

208. Agreed. Though, maybe change "They would bankrupt..." to "They are bankrupting..."

Seem to me they've got a running start.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

211. This is true. nt

[Bosonic]

31. But I bought tickets!!!

This is an outrage.

[steve2470]

38. good graphic nt

[riqster]

81. Excellent pic

[riversedge]

176. Great pic. And Thank you President Obama for staying cool on the world stage and

here at home.

[Skinner]

33. The irony is thick in this thread.

For the last week, I've read a bunch of "NO WAR IN CRIMEA!!!111" posts. But if god forbid you start a thread giving President Obama some credit for not going to war in Crimea, the response is "Nobody believed Obama would go to war in Crimea."

(For the record: No, Obama was never going to go to war in Crimea.)

[sharp_stick]

36. No shit n/t

[steve2470]

37. I never have thought for a nansecond he would go to war

However, let's give the man credit where it's due. President McCain would already be ramping up DoD.

[theboss]

61. Nobody was going to war Crimea

A President McCain wouldn't go to war in Crimea.

I feel like we are way too early into this story to praise anyone yet.

[steve2470]

63. if things change dramatically, I'll be one of the first to be critical

Perfectionism versus recognition of positive effort. I choose the latter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. McCain would not go to war either

all the bluster to the side.

[steve2470]

84. you are correct

but I'm willing to bet he would make plenty of belligerent noises. Thank god we don't have him or Palin, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Like Bush did in 2008? Oh wait, he did not

I am betting he would not.

It is easy to scream and posture when you are not in the executive.

[steve2470]

88. true he was rational about Georgia

I think we have to very grudgingly give him credit for Georgia.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Russia is a nuclear armed power

so you do not scream and risk a war. This is independent of party, or posturing before you get to the WH.

If Putin decides to go into any NATO power, welcome to war though, interlocking alliances are wonderful, aren't they?

(And given the German Air Force flew combat missions in CONUS after 9\11 after Art V was invoked by the alliance, we'd better be ready to reciprocate)

[steve2470]

93. I really hope everyone stays rational

I never knew Germany flew over here. Interesting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. A handy timeline

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/events_77648.htm

And the relevant point

16 January 2002
NATO Press Release (2002)003
NATO sends extra AWACS to help guard skies of America

It was covered extensively on CNN-I at the time, I suppose CNN hid this, like the presence of Mexican troops in Texas after Katrina. There is so much our national press really never ever covers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

[steve2470]

99. I'm reading

They were flying NATO aircraft, right ? Not German marked ones ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Germany is part of NATO

some of those AWACS were German Air Force, with German AF Markings and the NATO crest.

Some were Canadian, which shares a border, again a member of NATO.

And you see German craft at major air shows regularly as well.

[steve2470]

108. ok thank you for the info nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. I remember that Art V invocation since that was the first time

in the history of the Alliance that it was invoked. So when Biden referred to it the other day, pay attention.

[steve2470]

112. I'm glad I have DU

People like you update my knowledge. I wasn't aware Biden referred to it. Didn't Estonia invoke Art. V ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. Poland has made references. Here

I posted the relevant article here on Biden making a direct reference to it because of Estonia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024698290

Second section in gray. Yes, VOA, but they are quoting Biden.

[steve2470]

115. this is NYT from yesterday

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/world/europe/russias-aggression-in-crimea-brings-nato-into-renewed-focus.html?_r=0

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Things are getting warm, aren't they

[steve2470]

118. yea

I hope President Obama avoids Cold War mode as much as humanly possible and keeps a cool head. If he starts acting like Eisenhower, then I'll get critical.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. The choice might be Ike, or going hot

so I would be careful about being too critical.

[steve2470]

120. I guess my entire point here is....

yes, so far it's been a no brainer. No argument from me. However, he's been pretty restrained with sanctions and rhetoric, the March 2nd Kerry statement notwithstanding. I hope he continues on this course.

[lumpy]

205. Not so sure.. McCain is senile before his time and has the biggest blustery mouth in the senate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

206. And he would not go to war

Letting your moth Rubin the senate is not the same as actually having to exercise that power.

Neither would Paul, or a slew of other runny mouth members of the Senate.

[quakerboy]

151. President Palin would

you betcha!

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. Hate to burst that bubble

But not even Palin.

[quakerboy]

213. Ive known too many fundies to believe

that its fully predictable. I dont think that she would have been directed by rationality, nor even able to be reigned in by the normal funding sources of Republican power, given the opportunity to take the top seat.

Or to put it another way, I know Evangelicals who went to church with her in Alaska, and even they think she is a bit too crazy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

214. No she would not

The Oval Office changes people, and no she would not.

I have that from pretty good authority by the way, a former President.

[quakerboy]

215. How do you change mental illness?

How do you change "true believer" fundamentalism? This is the same basic force that accounts for suicide bombers, and motivates religious genocide. And I get that from pretty good authority, having known a few of them in my life.

I believe the oval office changes people. I also believe that true fanatics are not easily reasoned around or conveniently persuadable. And not predictable. If a person truly believes that the end of the world is near and looks forward to the occurrence, what fear will they have of a little war with Russia? How will you predict what twisted path someone in that mindset will follow, when all the basic rules and considerations are different?

[nadinbrzezinski]

216. Well, we will never know

but I guarantee that a lot of Palin is an act.

She is a sheister... a fraud, a snake oil saleswoman. And truly we will never know. But really, this thinking that the other side is all the evil, well, it really does not work.

And trust me, I have also met a few pols that are a tad unhinged, until you get them around the real money people. You think the actual donors (and I am talking of the 25K and above per plate donor, not the five and ten buck donor) wants a crazy one in the WH? Really?

[theboss]

200. No she wouldn't....

I'm not even sure anyone would go to war over the Baltic States at this point. Things get a little dicey there though.

If Putin gets interested in Poland, we all probably die.

[Number23]

143. Agreed. And I'd really like to get your thoughts on the small group that have declared that

non-Americans, particularly Canadians it seems, are not welcome to engage in conversations on certain topics here on DU? I know you don't often respond to posts in-thread but I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this.

[Eleanors38]

175. Agreed. Credit is due here. nt

[Whisp]

180. +++ we want to hear more from you, Skinner. n/t

[berni_mccoy]

182. Thank you. For everything.

[3catwoman3]

39. Count...

...me in!

[steve2470]

41. high 5 !

NO PANDERING !

NO SABER RATTLING !

NO MEANINGLESS TOUGH TALK !

NO RAMPING UP DoD !

OMFG, let's be thankful for this !

[hedgehog]

40. A big thumbs up!

My mother grew up in Depression era Youngstown, Ohio at a time when there were many ethnic enclaves. She had a very politically incorrect saying, which more or less said never get between two Slavs who are fighting!

[steve2470]

42. thumbs up !

PBO DID SOMETHING RIGHT. LET'S GIVE THE MAN SOME CREDIT, omfg.

Plenty of time to criticize the man.

[JoeyT]

43. No war always gets a rec.

And a kick.

[Capt. Obvious]

45. Obama works in mysterious ways

[steve2470]

46. He does

So did Shrub, but in an evil direction.

[grahamhgreen]

47. Yes, I'll support him on that.

[Submariner]

48. A President Palin would have us at or close to DefCon 4 by now

while warming up the nukes and having all missile subs at launch depth while airlifting troops and weaponry to the Eastern Europe provinces preparing to attack..also.

All it would have taken is a more competent republican teabagger party vote stealing/suppression machine in 2008, followed by a stroked out or dead McCain elevating a total airhead to the presidency while handing her the nuclear launch codes.

I actually find that thought much more terrifying then any freakin' Al Qaeda jerkoff threat.

Damn f*cking straight PBO gets a HELL YES. A no-brainer, but I guess it should be said.

[steve2470]

50. precisely

Yeah, it's a no brainer decision but President Palin/McCain/Romney/Cruz would be doing exactly what you say. Their base would be ecstatic !

[WatermelonRat]

111. A clarification on the DEFCON scale

[img][/img]

[zeemike]

142. Not even a president Palin would have

Because the generals would not have let her...they may be war hawks but they are not suicidal.
There would be no winners in such a conflict...and that fact is what has kept us out of it sense the Cuban missile crisis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

164. Nope. Independent of party none is really going to

Start a nuclear war. Independent of rhetoric as well.

[totodeinhere]

49. I will give the president credit for not starting a war over this. But realistically

nobody in Washington on either side of the aisle was calling for war. Even Neocons like McCain and Graham specifically said that we should not have a military confrontation over this. So Obama's not going to war over this was a no brainer. And for that matter, even GWB had the good sense not to go to war when Putin invaded Georgia.

[steve2470]

53. I agree

It's just nice that with PBO, there is absolutely no BS saber rattling or even discussion of it. Yes, on March 2, Kerry mentioned all options on table. I see that's been rescinded.

Things would have to get extremely bad in that part of the world for PBO to even consider war. That's what I'm really thankful for. The other idiots would be ramping up DoD at the first semi-sane opportunity.

[totodeinhere]

91. Agreed. n/t

[go west young man]

162. The Neocons aren't wanting the full out war.

They are wanting a new Cold War. It serves their purpose more. New/old bogeyman, relevant excuse for weapons contracts, new gas/fracking contracts, buying and selling of Ukrainian assets (utilities), the ability to encircle Russia thereby making themselves relevant and more able to direct US foreign policy. War isn't their goal, their own wealth and survival is. That is why they need suckers to follow their lead.

And in the process regular folks here at home get bilked out of a few more dollars for the next bogeyman. It's a win win for the Neocons. I am glad Obama is in charge and balancing out their manipulations but personally I wish we as a country had a deeper understanding of Russia as a whole. We did have a chance to help them after their collapse and we could have done more to bring them into the international fold. Instead we are continuing to pursue policies that drive a wedge. I am glad Obama is not on a war footing but I would hope for him to push back against these neocon subversive outdated actions and dismantle our own surveillance state. It is well past time for the USA to move into the 21st century.

[Iliyah]

55. K & R

He's working with other countries as well.

And YES I give him credit, cooler head shall prevail!

[steve2470]

56. hopefully things will stabilize over there sooner than later

I have to admit, the news story about Russia being concerned about Estonia bothered me somewhat.

[bearssoapbox]

58. He doesn't have time for war.

He's to busy writing formularies, updating code for the website and answering the phones of people that are having problems with ACA.

You know he doesn't have anything else to do.

Although according to some people, he's also busy selling used cars and snake oil.

Oh well, they will have plenty of time to keep bashing him and tearing down every little thing he does or tries to do.

[steve2470]

59. true

I always enjoy positive threads about Democrats and President Obama here. Some times it's a non-stop flood of negativity.

[Whisp]

181. 'That Honorable Man'

Has a correct sound about it.

With all the stuff thrown at him every day, from every direction from fake friends and real foes, he still maintains his cool and his integrity and still remains the smartest man in the room. And I think this is what really bugs some, that this guy is a better person that their sorry pathetic asses and they will never graduate to a mature and thoughtful adult like the President has.

We should look up to him even for just these rare and good human qualities, but instead the acting like rotten spoiled kids in a tantrum shitting their diapers is in vogue.

[lumpy]

207. Obama is a decent, thoughtful and ethical man as you say. I believe those are his outstanding

qualities. But sometimes it is difficult to over ride the actions of so many that lack those qualities. It is amazing that he has managed to accomplish what he has since those qualities are wanting in the majority of our citizens.

[theboss]

60. US boots on the ground were never even remotely a possibility

Is there anyone on either side of the aisle that wanted a war with freaking Russia over the freaking Crimea?

[steve2470]

67. our approach to PBO is different. End of discussion nt

[JoePhilly]

64. Giving him credit would be to admit that he's not the warmonger some claim him ...

... to be.

So that's not going to happen.

[steve2470]

65. President Obama must be perfect at all times, no errors allowed !

No BFD that he doesn't saber rattle.



I reject that perfectionism. I'll give him credit for being sane and non-belligerent, unlike Shrub.

[Zorra]

66. IMO, it's kind of insulting to the President to believe he should be thanked for

for not doing something that would be totally ludicrous and destructive.

He's nothing at all like Bush, for cryin' out loud.

[steve2470]

69. We agree to disagree nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

204. What? So you can complain about what you don't like, but give 0 credit for what is great. I think

I get how it works. See, it took me a while to understand it.

[Duval]

68. HELL YES!

Ok, he isn't perfect, but I really like Obama. I'd vote for him again, if that were possible. Thanks for the post, steve2470!

[steve2470]

71. you're welcome

I'm thankful every freaking day we have President Obama and not President Romney/McCain/Palin/Jeb Bush/Cruz.

We'd be having different threads in GD with one of them in power.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Maybe I missed the memo

or Cookie shredded it, quite possible, he shreds... but the crisis is over?

[steve2470]

75. no, but PBO is sane so far

I trust he will remain so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Problem is that this is not a one actor show

but that is just me. I prefer to read multiple sources, (and use a huge grain of salt on each) All of them tell me this is far from over and could turn still on a dime. So save your thanks until it is over.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. OH good gawd....I KNEW you couldn't do it!

I knew you could NEVER give that man credit for ANY damn thing...

this is quite telling! That shoe fits...

[steve2470]

78. eh, I'll thank him while he's sane

If he becomes insane, then I will be critical. Sending troops into Ukraine or putting our warships too close to Crimea or Russia is my definition of insanity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. How about Forward Deploying American fighters to Poland and Rumania

and I am betting the sixth fleet is in the Eastern Med.

Oh and I forgot sanity has nothing to do with this. The actions of Putin have been wholly rational as well, given our response to Georgia and South Ossettia.

[steve2470]

82. Fine with me

As long as they keep a good distance from Russian borders, I'm cool.

Ukraine is off-limits to me. Ok, let's delete the word sanity, rational works. I think he's been quite rational.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Right now they are playing a game of diplomatic tennis

the problem, for those who study history, is that those games can and do get out of hand over the most minor of things.

None in their sane mind would have predicted whole military mobilization of forces leading to war after a certain Archduke was shot in Sarajevo. That came after five years of crisis after crisis after crisis in the exact same region, with war I might add.

So as I have said in other threads, we all need a far more nuanced view of this.

[steve2470]

86. you are correct again

I think President Obama is mindful of that and will not cross a line. At least I hope so. If he does, I will one of the first to criticize him.

[lumpy]

209. It is certainly not over and possibly Obama will be put in a position that is unexpected/unplanned.

A lot depends on Russia's moves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

210. Do not forget

European allies

[Marrah_G]

89. I'm very glad he made the sane choice.

[steve2470]

90. me too

I hope he continues to be very careful in that region of the world.

[freshwest]

94. Yup! Warmonger, my ass! He's done what he said he'd do and changed the world. More to come...

More to the point, no nuking Russia:

From Segami's thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4582939

Thanks, Obama!

[steve2470]

96. thank you for this !

We need to praise and give President Obama credit when it's due. I can't say this enough.

[freshwest]

102. Agreed! And I appreciate this thread very much. He's a better man than most:

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)

He's actually a better man than to say that, but someone needed to say it!

And it does all of our hearts good to hear positive news. Here's to you, steve:

[steve2470]

106. thanks !

Just call me Steve, please

[freshwest]

137. Okay. Steve it is! And another kick:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

98. No, but I'll raise a glass to BHO.

Unless PBO is some relative of BHO, then I'll raise a glass to both!

[steve2470]

100. President Barack Obama

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

103. to be replaced by Hillary Rodham Clinton ...

who will not be designated PHC.

Anything to avoid Obama's name. Barack Hussein Obama. BHO.

[steve2470]

107. BHO is cool with me, honest

I've been here almost 10 years. PBO is just my shorthand.

[Auntie Bush]

104. Thanks Obama! And he did this while the crazies were calling him weak! Bravo Mr. President.

Now that took courage as he'd shown us many times before.

Now if he'll only have the courage to nix the pipeline! That will really take courage!

[steve2470]

109. I do hope Keystone will be dead soon nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

114. Nope!

Because there was never going to be any war over Ukraine; the likelihood of conflict between nuclear-armed powers is nil. That was never a risk anyone was going to take.

And being absurdly congratulatory to Obama for not doing something no-one sane was going to do anyway ignores the influence of the USA's European allies who have pretty uniformly said that they deplore the breach of international law by Russia but do not envision any military response. If European NATO members had called for a more vigorous response to Russian action in Ukraine? We might be seeing the British Royal Navy and French Marine Nationale sending ships into the Black Sea. US policy isn't made in a vacuum, and the USA isn't the only actor.

[steve2470]

117. ok we agree to disagree nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. You of course are correct, but when Ameircans in general do not know

what Art V is, you expect them to know that a lot of the posture and policy is decided in Brussels not in National Capitals?

[seveneyes]

122. Here's what needs to happen next

President Obama and his crew need to put an end to the DEA war on pot users. He has no other big issues going on right now. If he, his family and appointees strongly declare the wrongness of harming pot users, it would give more room to focus on the real problems in this country. Pass some laws that put a stop to local law abuse of users too.

Control it similar to alcohol and move on.

[steve2470]

125. I agree ! nt

[spanone]

124. k&r...

[mother earth]

126. War...what is it good for? MIC profiteering...we see right through you. nt

.

[steve2470]

127. amen

I'm so glad Obama is not a complete captive of the MIC, or we'd already have troops in Ukraine.

[mother earth]

212. This is more about petrodollars and the US maintaining that standard,we are all captives of the MIC.

We throw billions away in Afghanistan, we use mercenaries pissing away more money, and somehow we wonder why the threat of military force is scoffed away...it's all about the economics, my friend. This is an oil and dollars decision, and THAT is what our country is valuing right now, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't mean to offend, but we are all victims of an unrestrained MIC and plutocracy, and this war will not be fought with troops on the ground.

Seems to me we would be better served by breaking the oil chains, but seems unlikely until the last drop is wretched.

[Gothmog]

128. I am glad that the military option is not on the table

[steve2470]

130. me too

So far, so good *knock on wood*

A Republican president like Palin or McCain or Romney would have the bombers warmed up and ready to go. The RWNJ's would be foaming at the mouth and salivating for Russian blood.

[Iliyah]

161. Foaming at the mouth and salivating for Russian blood, nope

Foaming at the mouth and salivating for money money money, more money - PROFITS

GOPers don't give a shit about human life, i.e. - over 100,000 Iraqi deaths and many American deaths for fake WMDs, I mean oil . . .

[kpete]

129. a billion MORE

it I could,

peace
kp

[ucrdem]

131. let's make it 2 bil

[steve2470]

132. If I could, all the adults in the US would say hell yes

We can only dream.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

133. He's "WEAK"!!!!

No, seriously, one of the things that I appreciate about President Obama compared to George W. Bush is that he is more cautious and deliberate when it comes to foreign policy and that he doesn't talk like an idiot neocon warmonger. Plus, the fact that it drives the neocons crazy that he isn't starting more wars and kicking over more anthills. For anybody paying attention, this is part of the "change" a lot of us voted for after the Bush nightmare of 2001-2009. I for one have not been disappointed in him about this.

[steve2470]

134. completely agree ! nt

[Orsino]

135. For no war YET. Yes. n/t

[steve2470]

136. he'll get my credit unless he does that

If he goes over a line, then, yes, he will be criticized by me and many others.

[Hekate]

138. But, but, but...the news networks have already composed special war music!

They have graphics! It will all just be wasted if we don't go to war -- Call your Congressman right effing now! >whiiiiiine<



Thanks, Obama, for reals.

[steve2470]

139. :)

Yes, thanks Obama, for reals !

[Logical]

140. Imagine McCain or Romney at this point. Scary! Good job President Obama!! n-t

[steve2470]

141. bomb bomb Iran McCain

[ozone_man]

146. Setting the bar pretty low, aren't you?

What would he do, attack Crimea for voting to be part of Russia? There was no other rational decision to make. I can give him credit for being rational.

It would impress me if he stopped the war in Syria, by stopping funding the 'rebels' or having Saudia Arabia or other US allies supply the weapons. These are mostly Al Queda and we really don't want to be funding them with weapons, do we? This dirty war is on Obama's record, not Bush, so it is a chance for him to rise above the status quo MIC operations that we are so well known for.

It would impress me if he ended the embargo against Cuba, or the continued interference in Venezuela.

I give him lots of credit for the Affordable Care Act, even if it was not single payer, it leaves the door open for that. On the environment, he gets a very low grade. I try to grade fairly. I like him as a person, but this is not about his personality.

[steve2470]

147. we look at his performance differently, agree to disagree amicably nt

[blkmusclmachine]

152. So, Ukraine has no oil???

[steve2470]

156. I think it has some, have not done more research nt

[Dawson Leery]

153. Obama was never going to allow a war over Crimea.

We really dodged a bullet with the loss of McCain, both in 2008 and the 2000 primary. He is a kook.

[steve2470]

155. yes I agree ! nt

[Boom Sound 416]

154. Hell Yes

And thank you

[steve2470]

157. of course Crimea/Ukraine is a no brainer, overall point is his foreign policy stances nt

[Boom Sound 416]

158. I was just giving a hell yes

And a thank you.

Seemed like a good OP and a thing to do (as in PBO deserved it).

I'm not entirely sure he was a no-brainer to not go to war. It could have very easily looked like our last push into a bad decisions when bush gathered the 'coalition of the willing' and all that farce at the UN.

(I was there)

Obama went into Libya with NATO. He went to Pakistan to get bin laden. He used a drone on a us citizen (albeit a treasonous one) He's not exactly a pacifist.

I think we are just to have to take this one and be reminded by it.

On edit: Oh. Did I just pull a captain obvious?

[steve2470]

159. ah ok, yes I do think he deserves it nt

[newthinking]

165. Yes.

[davidn3600]

168. If Russia threatens a NATO member, there WILL be war...Biden already said so

You really think Putin is going to be satisfied with Crimea?

[steve2470]

169. I hope we can avoid that

I hope President Obama, Secretary Kerry and his team can help us avoid that. As far as Putin's motivations, I really don't know. We'll see.

[Cha]

171. Kick thanks steve~

[steve2470]

172. President Obama deserves maximum credit, so far ! Thanks cha ! nt

[eridani]

173. He's not inclined to fly off the handle or do bullshit oneupmanship

I certainly don't expect anyone who can get elected as president to take a clear stance agains post-WWII American imperialism. But if we can't have that, let's be grateful for a thoughtful and even-tempered president.

[Cha]

174. K

[davidpdx]

177. Hell yes

Kick & Rec

[IrishAyes]

183. You bet! I subscribe to several newsletters etc. to keep abreast of petitions and letters to sign,

and I also write the President independently. He's the wisest, most capable leader we've had in a long time. Hopefully he's setting the tone for those to follow. Nobody with half a brain really mistakes him for a pacifist. But thank God he's no warmonger either.

[SmittynMo]

186. PBO is "The man".

He won't go to war unless we are attacked first. If Cheney, Palin, or Rmoney were in charge, I feel, we would have been in wars with Syria, Iran, and Russia, North Korea by now. Their middle names are WAR!!! There were certainly enough justifications(in their minds) to do so.

[steve2470]

188. I wanted to thank all the posters in this thread for being civil

I think we've managed to disagree and discuss, without lapsing into ad hominem attacks. I don't take this for granted.

[2banon]

196. +10000 n/t

[libodem]

189. HELL YES

[steve2470]

190. I'm grateful he's not GWB #2 or (shudder) McCain nt

[libodem]

197. Absolutely

[2banon]

191. Personally, I'm quite pleased Obama has made a point of avoiding the Neo-Con Chest Thumping

saber rattling, war drum beating response. yes, very pleased and relieved.

[steve2470]

192. yes

Of course, we Democrats take it for granted that he's not a warmongering fool. I don't. I really don't.

[2banon]

193. I could do without the rest of the posturing, but I'll take that over bombs..

if you know what i mean.. Best to keep in mind that TPTB didn't really intend for the launching of WWIII either.. their fortunes are linked to certain investments.

We do know that, don't we?

[steve2470]

194. yes we do

Nuclear war would be a bad investment.