I hate the Copenhagen Zoo

[Liberal_in_LA]

Zoo That Killed Giraffe Kills 4 Healthy Lions
Two females and two cubs put down to make room for incoming male
By John Johnson, Newser Staff



(Newser) – The Copenhagen Zoo has another controversy on its hands over its treatment—more precisely, its killing—of animals. The zoo, which drew outcries several weeks ago when it killed a healthy giraffe and dissected it publicly, killed four lions this week to make way for an incoming adult male lion, reports AFP. The zoo put down two aging females whose place as primary breeders will be taken by two younger females, along with two 10-month-old cubs who would have been killed by the new male anyway, say zoo officials.

It's all about "the pride of lions' natural structure and behavior," they say. The zoo hopes the new male and two younger females will form a new pride, reports AP. This time around, no public dissection will take place because "not all our animals are dissected in front of an audience," says a zoo spokesperson. The story is generating lots of attention already, though the AFP quotes an ethicist who complains about the "Disneyfication" of zoo animals.

[NoOneMan]

1. I hate pretty much any zoo

Animals can be pretty cool when they are just out and about being what they are. Any you know what? Animals don't have to be cool. We don't have to have an opinion of them. We don't have to cage them up for our fascination. We don't have to fuck with them period.

[JanMichael]

2. I am appalled at the

meat eaters in the US that could care less how the animals are treated here- bitching about the giraffe.

I am appalled that the hunters in the US are screaming about the lions in the zoo now.

These animals probably had a good life, and died clean- as opposed to what we do to ours here- that are fed shit, live in horrid conditions, and then die terrified-- then WE eat them and feel sanctimonious over what is basically a cute, tall cow.

[NoOneMan]

3. "I am appalled that the hunters in the US are screaming about..."

Where are these hunters?

Why shouldn't they have a right to scream? They see a fellow hunter by nature caged up and prevented from hunting for its food (and killed). That's pretty fucked up.

Why do you think these animals had a good life, completely deprived of the natural conditions they evolved to thrive in?

[JanMichael]

6. Thrive?

Do you know how many wild animals are born and "thrive?"

Americans have a pretty limited view, mostly it seems provided by Disney, on real animal life "in the wild."

btw, I don't have an issue with hunting if hunters use the meat appropriately. I DO have an issue with the raging hypocrisy around this zoo-

[NoOneMan]

9. Um, yes

Many, many species thrive in their natural conditions.

Some don't. They die out or adapt and become a more resilient species.

btw, I don't have an issue with hunting if hunters use the meat appropriately.

Good to hear

I DO have an issue with the raging hypocrisy around this zoo

The main hyprocrisy I see is for those who want a more humane zoo, when nothing about a traditional zoo is humane.

[joeybee12]

4. Please, don't bother to read the article...it might show you how off you are in your rant...

They killed two cubs..tell me about the long, good fucking life they had...and stop with this shit about how since some people eat meat we can't express concern for anything at all...crap like that makes me sick.

[JanMichael]

5. I read it before I ever saw it on DU

The guy is right-- cubs die in the wild too. No, these animals never had a chance at a "normal" life. I didn't write "normal," I wrote "good." No predators after them, no hunting for food-

As far as "some people eat meat," when you post about how the cows, chickens and pigs you eat live, and how they die, we'll have a conversation.

Worry about what's in your freezer first, then you can fix Copenhagen.

[NoOneMan]

10. Not being hunted and having food isn't the same as "good"

Being free, roaming, smelling certain smells, seeing certain things is "good".

There are a whole lot of psychotic depressed humans who are well fed and not hunted. I wouldn't classify their state as "good".

[joeybee12]

11. Do not tell me what I can and cannot worry about and what my prioities shall be

Got it sweetcheeks?

Yeah, two cubs, hardly in this world killed for no fucking reason...your definition of good is seriously fucked up...and yeah, they would have been better in the wild...they're wild animals...that's natural for them, not being manipulated by some worthless scum in Copenhagen.

[JanMichael]

12. I have seen you on DU for years

Never saw that type of response from you.

Please do not refer to me as "sweetcheeks" again. Thank you. Now, go eat a cheeseburger, and look at pictures of happy cows out in a pasture and feel all warm n fuzzy. Or feed your dog or cat, and don't wonder what the hell they are eating, or how those animals lived. As long as you feel good, and vindicated, that's all that matters, I suppose. Outrage is so much fun sometimes, eh.

[joeybee12]

21. Yeah, and apparently is not knowing what the fuck you're talking...

What this is is animal abuse...you don't get that and I'm sorry for your lack of humanity.

[JanMichael]

27. We have been vegetarians for almost a decade

we quit because of the horrid abuse of farm animals in the US.

I ask you- do you think a quick bullet to the head while eating rye bread is somehow "meaner" than shoving calves into stalls so they can't walk around and toughen their meat "meaner?" More abusive?

I never wrote "I am for this." I wrote "I am appalled" by the hypocrisy of Americans over this ONE zoo.

[whathehell]

19. We have an anti-cruelty movement here for farm animals and no, no one here eats animals "live"

and guess what, Jan?...We don't just self-flagellate here -- What's wrong is wrong, wherever it occurs,

and we'll discuss it if we choose.

Sorry if you thought Europe was "off limits" to criticism.

[pintobean]

7. Holy cow.

[whathehell]

13. Be appalled at this: Marius, the healthy giraffe they killed and dissected in front of visitors,

including children, was only 18 months old, so NO, he did not get to live "a good life", certainly not a long one.

[JanMichael]

15. read it weeks ago, saw the photos

Less than two generations ago, your family was more than likely lopping the heads off their yard chickens- Your great grandmother would probably laugh at the idea that kids don't know where meat comes from.

If the parents in Copenhagen wanted their children to see that, it's not any of your business. It should concern you however that life in the US has become that sterile-

[whathehell]

23. Less than two generations ago your family may have been lopping heads off chickens, honey,

mine have been city denizens for much longer than that.

Who SAID that the parents in Copenhagen "wanted their children to see that"?...Did they ask?

The incident caused a WORLD WIDE controversy, so tell the rest of the world it's not any of THEIR business.

It's my business if I choose to make it so -- Sorry to ruffle your little Europhile feathers.

[Chathamization]

34. I'm sure the meat they normally use to feed the lions is donated by the animals. N/T

[whathehell]

37. Really NOT the point...

That's a very small part of the whole incident.

[Chathamization]

40. A healthy animal was going to be killed to feed those lions either way. Healthy animals currently

are being killed to feed those lions. But only one of the animals used to feed the lions has generated this level of outrage.

Some animals are more equal than others, I suppose.

[JanMichael]

42. Surely you jest. Those lions must have either been vegetarians

or eating ugly, old animals. Surely, they weren't eating cute, young ones. Impossible.

[whathehell]

55. You really are clueless as to the fact of the international outcry, aren't you?

Twenty seven thousand people around the world signed an online petition to stop the killing of the young giraffe.

Go share your awesome wit with them.

[JanMichael]

57. 27 thousand around the world?

That leaves millions that did not.

Why aren't you freaked out about the animals that were feeding those lions before the cute giraffe was killed? Why aren't you freaked out about the animals that are being killed at the local animal shelter down the street from you?

Why is this ONE issue affecting you so much? That's what I hate about this article- people on DU that laugh at vegetarians, that make fun of PETA (I am not a member, btw)- that write about "tasty bacon"--- are weirded out by the zoo's decisions.

This isn't "wit." This is a combination of disgust and curiosity at this point- I think some of the people on these "omg!" threads sound like idiots that have no clue how animals are treated in this society- and frankly sound like they think the neato lions in the zoos they visit are eating Purina Lion Chow.

[whathehell]

64. Um, the twenty seven thousand were given VERY short notice..

and yeah, I'm similarly disgusted at the idea of young animals being killed to feed lions -

- Feel better now?


As for my comment on your "wit", you don't pick up irony well, do you, LOL?

[whathehell]

50. A healthy YOUNG animal?...

I'm speaking of the young giraffe. I think you're bending over backward to "defend"

what much of the rest of the world has already found indefensible. Sorry, but I don't

think any of you are doing a great job of it.

[JanMichael]

58. and what about the healthy young cows

that are dying to feed YOU?

What about the healthy young animals that the lions ate before? Are you as "concerned" about them?

[whathehell]

63. They're not "dying to feed" me, because I don't eat them..Duh.

There you go again, making those stupid assumptions.

[jeff47]

18. I am appalled at the people who think eating food while it's alive is more humane.

The fact that you don't relate to plants doesn't mean they do not feel pain.

Aside from the "pull hand from hot pot"-style reflex, their reaction to injury is very similar to ours. A flood of hormones, some swelling, and a lot of damage control. Some plants will even attempt to bend away from the source of injury.

At least animals are dead when they are eaten. And they didn't die from the oven or boiling water.

[JanMichael]

20. Well, now that's true

Thanks for that- I swear to god, I have heard the kale scream in my nightmares.

[jeff47]

22. Again, the fact that you don't relate to the creature doesn't mean it never feels pain. (nt)

[JanMichael]

29. We DO relate!

I was asking our shamrocks just yesterday if they wanted to go outside yet, under the oak tree (which looks lonely right now) and they said "no! We want to wait until there is not a danger of frost!" So, I gave them warm water, and put them closer to the sunny window. They seem happy-

[Jgarrick]

30. I'm a meat eater and a hunter, and I'm not bitching about the giraffe

or screaming about the lions.

I presume, therefore, that you are not appalled with me?

[JanMichael]

43. Nope! :) And as someone pointed out upthread, the other animals that are killed

to feed lions in zoos everyday aren't generating ANY outrage.

I guess people here think they just eat "lion chow" by Purina.

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. I hate how "food" animals are treated also.

[MoonRiver]

41. I'm not a meat eater nor a hunter. I am a devoted animal rights activist.

I am appalled, beyond description, at the conditions that factory farm animals endure. I work every day to try and improve their lives. THAT SAID, I am also horrified about the abuse of power I am reading about in the Copenhagen Zoo. Maybe it exists in other zoos. If so, I'm onto the next front for animal rights. As I believe all who care about animals should be.

[JanMichael]

45. Thank you. And as pointed out by another poster-

What the HELL do people think lions in zoos eat? The "outraged, and don't tell me I am a hypocrite because bacon isn't the same" folks on this thread don't give a thought to the animals those lions eat every day.

[whathehell]

8. WTF is wrong with that zoo?...Killing and dissecting a healthy animal publicly, in front of children

no less, is is fucked up and no, I don't care if that bothers those who feel they must deflect from

the incident by changing the subject to "all zoos" or the supposed "hypocrisy" of meat eaters

supposed "hypocrisy" of meat eaters, so as to avoid speaking ill of our sainted euro brethren.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/copenhagen-zoo-kills-four-lions-despite-outcry-over-death-of-marius-the-giraffe-9215375.html

[JanMichael]

14. "supposed?"

heh. OK. I wrote nothing about our "sainted euro brethen." don't know where that came from.

Go watch a couple of PETA videos and get back to me. Or better yet, go visit some factory farms.

[whathehell]

25. Yeah, "supposed" and don't lecture me on PETA, dear, I'm a member

and I also give to Humane Farming...duh.

Get back to ME when you stop making ignorant assumptions.

[JanMichael]

31. "Dear?" OK< now I have been called

"Sweetcheeks" and "Dear" on one thread. I am a man, so this is kind of unusual, unless you are at least in your 70's at this point.

Also, how was I to know you were a PETA member? Did you message me about that, and I forgot? Middle aged is HELL, lemme tell you, but at least I am not calling people "Dear" yet--

How about you get back to ME when you and I know more about each others personal lives.

[whathehell]

35. LOL!

"Also, how was I to know you were a PETA member"?


That's the point, bro (better?), you don't know shit about anyone on a board

so it's not smart to get all presumptious and attitudinal with them, as you were with

with me, before you know who you're talking to!

[yuiyoshida]

16. Bastards..

Maybe the city should make sure the person who runs the place, should have his job "put down" aka Fired.

[LeftyMom]

17. This is normal zoo behavior. So is selling the animals for canned hunts and the hide trade.

Something to think about the next time you're trying to figure out where to take the kids for the day.

[whathehell]

26. It's not "normal" to kill a healthy 18 month old giraffe and then dissect it publicly

in front of children.

This incident at the Copenhagen Zoo the article mentions concerns Marius, the giraffe. It

generated a world wide controversy and generated petitions with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of signatures.

The Copenhagen zoo executed and dissected the animal in public anyway.

[LeftyMom]

33. No, normally they kill most of the large male animals and hide that fact.

Or they sell them to other organizations who will kill them.

[whathehell]

38. At 18 months?

Even if that was the case, it would be a hell of a lot more sensitive to do it OUT of the sight

of the public, especially children.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. The Erwin Schrodinger Feline Exhibit is particularly egregious.

Sorry, little quantum physics joke, there.

[MFM008]

28. WTF?

just WTF???

[whathehell]

32. If you want to know why you're perfectly fine post is generating so much defensiveness here,

as a long time DUer, I think I can explain:

There are many Europhiles on DU and there seems to be an unspoken rule here that we are NEVER to criticize

anyone -- however valid the criticism -- from anywhere OTHER than America...That rule seems to be applied

with particular fervor to our democratic socialist heroes across the pond.

[JanMichael]

39. it's mostly from me. I have written NOTHING

about Europe. Zero.

My question is "what's the issue? look how we treat animals in the US, then WE eat them."

I don't give a damn if this zoo is on a moon colony. The raging hypocrisy is my problem.

[whathehell]

49. You don't have to, genius, the zoo in question is obviously in Europe..

What part of "unspoken" do you not understand?

As to "how we treat animals in the US" are you saying that the US treats animals

differently/worse than other countries do? If so, where's your evidence?

I know of no zoo in the US or elsewhere, for that matter, where young, healthy animals

are shot and dissected within sight of the public, especially children -- THAT is "the issue".

Got it now?....That's a rhetorical question, by the way, because if you do not "get it" now,

I'll have to assume you're either a slow learner or you're deliberately avoiding the point so as to continue

your tiresome rant. Sorry, but I'm afraid I'm no longer interested....Buh Bye.

[JanMichael]

59. Oh noes!

The CHILDREN!

Hey "genius"--- I don't know how old you are, but if you are 50 or younger, you are one of the FIRST generations that don't have to "know" your food, or hear about it, before it appears on your plate. Sorry- the world isn't that sterile. Those packaged "steaks" in your freezer were alive and cute and some point- you just didn't have to see them.

[whathehell]

62. Ever consider a PR job with the Copenhagen Zoo?... I'm guessing they could use that help right now

considering how bad their press has been.

You may lack the training, but I'm betting your taste for cruelty

toward children and animals would make you a great fit.

Please make yourself comfortable on my ignore list.

[whathehell]

65. Yeah...the children..Maybe when you're old enough to have your own you'll understand

because right now you're coming off like an immature adolescent, and by the way, sonny,

I'm well OVER fifty...duh.

[Liberal_in_LA]

44. someone just posted the following comment after the article

someone just posted the following comment after the article:

e-mail just sent; "Shame on you. Shame on any of you who believe that it is right to take and confine animals for human amusement, and then decide to kill those animals when they're no longer cosmetically desirable, or become inconvenient. If you choose to capture, confine, and show them to people who don't realize how sick that is, the least you should do -- the very least -- is try to preserve them in health, decency, and safety. These elder female lions were killed solely for cosmetic reasons. The healthy cubs were killed only because you have sick, lazy minds in search of the easiest, cheapest solutions. Your 'zoo' is an Auschwitz for animals. How sad. How sick. Do not call yourselves humans. Humans have more decency. You do not represent my species, and you certainly do not deserve to be entrusted with any others. Those of you who made this decision, and those who supported it, should never be allowed near an animal: not even a worm. Catherine xxxxxxxx USA" If you are outraged by this story, let your voice be heard... or at least bomb their servers. [e-mail]

[JanMichael]

46. "CatherinexxxxxUSA" must think "Wild Kingdom" is a current show.

most of the animals in the zoos now have been bred in captivity. That giraffe and the lion cubs were running around the veld and getting rudely snatched up with commentary by Marlin Perkins. "And look! Jim has the young giraffe in a lasso!"

Please. This isn't an "Auschwitz for animals." that is nuts.

[Jgarrick]

47. Comparing a zoo to Auschwitz is the most idiotic thing I've seen on the internet in a long time.

And that's saying something.

[malaise]

48. To be truthful the lions are better off dead and in some freaking zoo

in some country with freezing winters when they should be roaming the continent of Africa.

Sorry I hate all fugging zoos. All of them torture and kill animals - you can't restrict other species' movements and then pretend that you are being kind to them - that's slave master talk. I love watching watering holes in Africa or eagles. nest. Let me see these birds and animals un their own environment.

[whathehell]

51. That's your opinion..

Others might disagree.

[JustAnotherGen]

52. Won't step into this thread beyond this

I don't do zoos either. And I don't do the circus either.

[malaise]

53. Don't do the circus either

[KDLarsen]

54. What's the alternative...?

First of all, the headline is wrong, it was an aging male and a female.

The male was put down, as he was starting to make advances on lionesses he had sired himself (ie. inbreeding, which is bad), since they were reaching sexual maturity.

Because they would then have to bring in a new male lion in, to assume the alpha male status in the lion pride, they were faced with a problem with the female. She's 15 years old, already above the average lifespan on a lion in the wild, but a new male would most likely try to breed with her anyway, and the Zoo staff determined she wouldn't have the strength to go through another round of pregnancy and care for potential offspring.

This in turn lead to a problem with the two cubs she was already caring for, as they're not yet old enough to take care of themselves, and had they stayed at Copenhagen Zoo, the new male lion would have killed them.

Since the Copenhagen Zoo is a member of EAZA, that puts a limit on where the animals could be transferred to (they cannot be sold or given away, as EAZA members don't consider themselves the owners of the animals, merely their caretakers). They did try to relocate them, but no Zoos or wildlife parks offered space for them.

[LisaL]

56. Excuse me.

How is the headline wrong?
Zoo killed for lions including young cubs that where healthy.

[KinMd]

60. Can Russia invade Demark...please?

[JanMichael]

61. Why? Did you not read about the stray dogs and family pets

euthanized for the Olympics? Really?