To the MRA’s-

[digonswine]

--some people seem to live in some kind of bubble where gender discrimination is some sort of nebulous concept that is open to statistics regarding women in college and achievement.
I have just started teaching(not a new teacher) in a fairly rural school here in Wisconsin.
The football coach(my fellow teacher) encourages the athletes with progressive statements like, “You have dick! You have a dick!” You know, don’t be a chick, don’t be a woman.
The kids have no filter---they hear this stuff day-to-day. Any time a male does not behave in some stereotypical manner—the result is a barrage of insulting words. The terms Pussy, Mangina, menstruation references, weakness—par for the course.
I insist these terms not be used, but they appear to be ingrained in these kids. They grew up with it—it is the way to express disappointment or to encourage more “manly” behavior.
This is a rather rural school. This is to what they have been exposed. It is an uphill battle.
There are teachers here that behave similarly—only male. Seriously-----seriously---there are a very few male teachers that go online to Facebook accounts, with the kids, and critique the female teachers based upon what they see. I have heard permutations of female teachers’ names be turned into crude sexual jokes by these people who should be role-modeling proper behavior.
These young males are hyper-sexualized and have few to look up to that do not have some sort of perverted sense of how to treat the opposite sex.
I do not blame the kids-we are the problem.
I used to work in a treatment center for sex offenders. We worked hard on these problems. I have heard more vile comments from some of my regular students than I ever heard before.
Anyone who thinks that men are becoming irrelevant or a minority with no power are outside their minds.
I am a white male-I have to fight misogyny EVERY DAY. Every day. . . .really.
The idea is. . . misogyny is here—and in a big way.
Life is difficult for everyone. To think that to be a female makes it easier is to deny reality. Being a male is not easy-it is the truth, but we are overrepresented to say the least.
All comments are welcome-I can’t respond until Friday night or Saturday morning!!

[TheFrenchRazor]

1. i hear that kind of language ALL THE TIME, and it's pretty clear that the meaning

behind it is: female = bad. as a woman, let me say, i can feel the love when i hear those kind of statements. it is also a way of enforcing adherence to gender roles in males. conform or be cast out, as Rush (the band) said.

[digonswine]

9. I'm not sure that they truly make that connection-

It is similar to referring to something as "gay"--they are generally not really thinking gay=bad=good way of saying something is bad. These are just words that they have come to know as being synonymous with those meanings.
When I point out this deeper concept, I am generally met with responses like "I didn't mean it like that." And they may well have not meant it like that. They are not bad, they just don't see the connection and need it explained in this way.

[Squinch]

2. You are on a front line in this, and it sounds as if you are a

lonely voice in the wilderness where you live. Which makes what you are doing all the more important. You might be the first voice these children hear saying these things, but you won't be the last.

What you are doing matters to many lives and many attitudes.

I am grateful for people like you.

[Ohio Joe]

3. "nebulous concept"... Fuck, we have MRA's here that deny it exists...

In fact, they try to make the claim it is men who are oppressed... It's fucked up.

[digonswine]

10. Yes-i really don't get it at all-

With some usernames, I just roll my eyes and think "oh-here we go with this shit again."

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Just out of curiosity--Sand Ridge?

Anyway, I absolutely agree with you about the nature and degree of the problem. It's not just a feminist issue; it's a HUMAN issue. The girls are damaged by being denigrated, and the boys are damaged by being forced into stereotypical male behavior patterns that cut them off from much of the richness & depth of life.

[digonswine]

14. No--not Sand Ridge-

A treatment center between Wausau and Shawano.

I don't want to be too specific, you see.

Anyway--I agree--and this is actually one thing I have seen from the MRA community I agree with--that males are forced into these gender roles and behaviors. I do not pretend that this is great for males and horrible for females. It stinks in both directions--but it is directed, generally, one way and not the other.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. OK, from that I can name it (but won't). Been there.

I was a WI DOC psychologist for quite a few years.

[digonswine]

18. Thanks--think small town

We may have crossed paths! No doubt dealt with the same clientele-maybe.

[BlackAndBeyond]

19. It is what it is

As a man, I'd sacrifice my life to defend the women and children in my family. Hell, I'd probably step in and defend some random woman in the street. I don't exactly relish the idea of putting myself in harm's way like that, but if it came to it, I'd do it. Some people might call that forced gender roles, I call it facing up to your responsibility.

I don't think calling everyone who disagrees with a feminist an "MRA" is helping to reconcile the issues either. It only makes people more defensive.

[digonswine]

20. That is not at all what I was talking about-

the enforced gender roles have nothing to do with defending the family. It is about how we expect males to act and interact--what is manly and what is not.
I am pretty sure that feminists have no problem with men being protective of those they care about.
It is about how we inculcate males to be distinctly separate from what are considered feminine qualities--qualities we all naturally have.
I have no doubt that most women would sacrifice all to protect their loved ones as well. This is not a manly quality, but a human quality.
MRA, at least here, seems to refer to a particular brand of victimhood. I do agree with some of their ideas--some point out the unfairness of the human condition-but then there is this added fabric of being prejudiced against or HAVING to adhere to the stereotypes imposed by society that I do not agree with.

[BlackAndBeyond]

21. Men are expected to put their life on the line first

I wouldn't put my life on the line for just anyone. I'd assume - or at least I'd hope - that most men are able to take care of themselves. If they can't, we're in trouble as a nation. How would we have stood up to the Nazis or the Japanese without "masculine qualities"? How would we have fought the War of Independence? There's a time and a place for feminine qualities, but it's important to recognize that masculine qualities are just as essential, and that forcing people to face up their responsibilities as a man isn't always a bad thing.

As for "MRAs", I know the type of people you mean, but to be honest I haven't seen anyone who matches that description here. It's a slur that's thrown around far too much.

[digonswine]

23. as far as I can tell

you are a satirization of a male person. Perhaps you are attempting to be ironic in some way.
You are, at least, being obtuse.
If you have something to say, please do so-
You say it is manly to stand up to Nazis and the Japanese from many years ago.
I have said I agree with some of the MRA points--so just what the fuck are you talking about, if I may?

[BlackAndBeyond]

26. In this day and age

In this day and age, I'd be surprised if we could defend ourselves against a similar foe. Our society has been so emasculated, and morale and discipline is so low, I worry if we still have the resolve.

[ismnotwasm]

24. I'm a woman-- I'd do the same

The standards of defense and combat are changing as are gendered roles. Can't change biology, but we can question what it means.

I was too young to see the returning Vets of Vietnam, but as we age they're in my peer group. Plus I'm a nurse and I've cared for many more than I can remember for non-combat reasons. They talk about the damage they sustained. One, a friend of mine is now a woman, and always felt like she was a woman.

My daughter is considered a decorated combat veteran for her actions in Afghanistan.

She would fight for her family as well. It has nothing to do with gender.

[BlackAndBeyond]

25. It hasn't changed that much

They haven't really changed, it's just an illusion. You'll always need boots on the ground, and that means men. They also claim that the male role in the workplace has changed, but that's an illusion too. All we really did was outsource a lot of the traditionally male jobs to the rest of the world. Our whole "service" economy and so-called female economic independence is all built on sand. It's a house of cards.

And with all due respect, I don't think introducing military conscription for women in the event of a war would be a vote-winner among the female electorate. Nobody wants to be conscripted of course, but men on the whole will step up to the plate when they feel their country is genuinely in danger.

[cui bono]

5. Thank you for standing up to the sexism and misogyny you encounter.

We can use all the help we can get.

[digonswine]

13. Thanks, but-

this is the least any fairly decent person SHOULD do. It should be reflexive.

[redqueen]

16. THIS

K&R

[Heidi]

6. Kick!

[Tsiyu]

7. Maybe they need to be recorded making these statements

and comments and calling these names, and their behavior shown on the internets.
Laws vary from state to state on the legality of recording others without their consent, but it seems at public games and such there should be no expectation of privacy.

If teachers and others would record these cretins en masse maybe they might be shamed.

Thank you for posting your insights and experiences.

It's long past time to pop that bubble of denial.

[digonswine]

11. This is at practice-not during games-

Frankly, I do not want to deal with it in that way. I want to be a positive influence and point it out when I do not think something is appropriate.
I can't forget that those (few) adults who behave in this way have learned it just like the kids are learning it. It is not like they are beyond redemption-they just need to realize the harm this does just like the kids do.

[Tsiyu]

22. I understand

Maybe you can find some literature on gender shaming and such and leave it about? Watch those hidden cameras yourself!

In any case thanks for your great OP






And for MRAs who think there is no rape culture, listen to Jimmy Carter ( toward end ) discussing it. I trust him completey to tell the truth, and he does here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017183396

[Scuba]

8. Thanks for the post, and for fighting back as you can ....

Similar/related issues caused a big hullaballoo here in Fondy this week ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024719502


As follow-up, the school board meeting that night was packed with folks supporting Ms. Kumar.

[digonswine]

12. I just read that-thanks-

The anti-rape folks are being silenced? I would think any sensible administrator would want this front and center---to be in front of this and support it.
I do know, though, that admin sometimes just wants to cover its collective ass. It is inconvenient to have to deal with publicity like this.
But how could it have been a bad idea to fully support this idea and story?

Luckily-there is not, at least for now, a vocal contingent that makes light of rape around here.

[Whisp]

17. Thank you, K&R