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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:09 PM

 

Look people - the Iraq War was an honest mistake

Not everyone wanted it, and to be sure some little mistakes were made in interpreting intelligence. But they were honest mistakes. It was all initiated and managed properly, by men and women who love their country. Patriots.

We tortured, killed, and were killed for all the right reasons, and things just didn't work out quite the way we'd hoped other than a lot of the right people making a huge, huge amount of money. But there's nothing wrong with making ginormous money in America off of well-intentioned wars: we don't begrudge the 99% having to make sacrifices so the 1% can buy solid-gold dog houses, because that is who we are.

Schmucks. We are schmucks.

So, to the Purity-Test Left, I ask that you stop the talk of "lying us into war", of "war crimes", of "the need for human decency", and all the rest of your crap that loses elections. No more hatred. No more #%^*ing retarded ideas. Enough from you people.

We must look forward, not back. The future is bright, schmucks.

Regards,

Movin'-forward Manny

169 replies, 13686 views

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Arrow 169 replies Author Time Post
Reply Look people - the Iraq War was an honest mistake (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 OP
840high Mar 2014 #1
12kbush Mar 2014 #119
RobertEarl Mar 2014 #2
Dustlawyer Mar 2014 #68
fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #100
PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #3
quinnox Mar 2014 #6
Supersedeas Mar 2014 #116
L0oniX Mar 2014 #4
Rex Mar 2014 #5
quinnox Mar 2014 #7
PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #11
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #19
Buns_of_Fire Mar 2014 #38
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #98
vssmith Mar 2014 #112
pscot Mar 2014 #8
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #20
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #23
Divernan Mar 2014 #151
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #158
ProSense Mar 2014 #9
Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #37
JoePhilly Mar 2014 #72
former9thward Mar 2014 #87
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #101
former9thward Mar 2014 #108
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #96
jamzrockz Mar 2014 #123
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #127
malaise Mar 2014 #10
Vattel Mar 2014 #12
PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #14
Vattel Mar 2014 #15
PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #16
Vattel Mar 2014 #21
Maedhros Mar 2014 #105
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #34
WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2014 #167
Auntie Bush Mar 2014 #13
tea and oranges Mar 2014 #25
JaneyVee Mar 2014 #17
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #18
leftynyc Mar 2014 #61
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #86
leftynyc Mar 2014 #89
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #121
leftynyc Mar 2014 #124
Autumn Mar 2014 #22
bobduca Mar 2014 #75
Autumn Mar 2014 #79
bobduca Mar 2014 #82
kenny blankenship Mar 2014 #24
MindMover Mar 2014 #26
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #40
Jackpine Radical Mar 2014 #137
on point Mar 2014 #27
Scuba Mar 2014 #46
Whisp Mar 2014 #28
GeorgeGist Mar 2014 #39
Scuba Mar 2014 #47
zeemike Mar 2014 #29
Phlem Mar 2014 #150
zeemike Mar 2014 #159
RufusTFirefly Mar 2014 #30
blkmusclmachine Mar 2014 #31
YOHABLO Mar 2014 #32
cprise Mar 2014 #35
wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #33
cprise Mar 2014 #36
pscot Mar 2014 #67
cprise Mar 2014 #115
pscot Mar 2014 #148
Maedhros Mar 2014 #107
cprise Mar 2014 #117
Maedhros Mar 2014 #130
reformist2 Mar 2014 #41
Victor_c3 Mar 2014 #42
Scuba Mar 2014 #48
TBF Mar 2014 #51
LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #56
Marrah_G Mar 2014 #94
Maedhros Mar 2014 #111
frylock Mar 2014 #129
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #135
libodem Mar 2014 #145
JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #153
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #43
Fumesucker Mar 2014 #45
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #52
leftynyc Mar 2014 #62
Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #74
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #92
Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #95
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #97
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #142
Fumesucker Mar 2014 #166
Scuba Mar 2014 #49
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #60
Enthusiast Mar 2014 #44
snort Mar 2014 #85
Scuba Mar 2014 #50
LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #57
marble falls Mar 2014 #58
leftynyc Mar 2014 #63
Scuba Mar 2014 #64
leftynyc Mar 2014 #66
TBF Mar 2014 #53
xchrom Mar 2014 #54
ProSense Mar 2014 #55
marble falls Mar 2014 #59
bobduca Mar 2014 #83
Dragonfli Mar 2014 #149
marble falls Mar 2014 #162
n2doc Mar 2014 #65
trusty elf Mar 2014 #69
RandoLoodie Mar 2014 #70
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #71
RandoLoodie Mar 2014 #78
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #80
RandoLoodie Mar 2014 #84
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #102
RandoLoodie Mar 2014 #106
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #109
RandoLoodie Mar 2014 #110
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #99
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #103
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #138
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #140
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #146
grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #163
DeSwiss Mar 2014 #73
Boxerfan Mar 2014 #76
WinkyDink Mar 2014 #160
Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #77
lumberjack_jeff Mar 2014 #81
tclambert Mar 2014 #88
lillypaddle Mar 2014 #90
polichick Mar 2014 #91
Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #93
Maedhros Mar 2014 #113
raccoon Mar 2014 #104
annabanana Mar 2014 #136
WinkyDink Mar 2014 #161
santamargarita Mar 2014 #114
Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #118
Richardo Mar 2014 #120
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #122
Phlem Mar 2014 #152
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #139
bobduca Mar 2014 #169
Corruption Inc Mar 2014 #125
mike_c Mar 2014 #126
valerief Mar 2014 #128
Arkana Mar 2014 #131
frylock Mar 2014 #132
Autumn Mar 2014 #144
Divernan Mar 2014 #155
DevineBovine Mar 2014 #133
Kablooie Mar 2014 #134
Divernan Mar 2014 #156
Baitball Blogger Mar 2014 #141
grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #165
kath Mar 2014 #143
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2014 #147
gollygee Mar 2014 #154
Gothmog Mar 2014 #157
grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #164
Maedhros Mar 2014 #168


Response to 840high (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:44 PM

119. Oil Oil OiL

IRAQ WAR PREDICATED ON A LIE WITH 12 TRILLION $$$ OF DEBT THAT WILL TAKE 20 YEARS TO GET RID OF EXCLUDING USING THE BACKS OF THE 99% INSTEAD OF GWBush And Cheney. WAKE UP AMERICA! BUSH IS LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:14 PM

2. Tell that to Obama

 

Never look back.

Because he looked back and then he said it was with good reason that we invaded Iraq and did all that.

Because: Oil.


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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:30 AM

68. Ironic that Cheney and Rumsfeld, 2 individuals that benefitted from Obama's look forward,

not back bull shit. They attack him all day long, but would be in prison for War Crimes if it were not for him. Obama, you should have locked them up when you had the chance!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #68)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:53 AM

100. No, no, no.

That's been covered at DU already. Once a President starts his own righteous, read "warrantless," killings there is no going back.

FORWARD!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:17 PM

3. It's about time you got on board

 

A little late to the game there, Movin' Manny...


I love me some Operation Iraqi Liberation

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #3)


Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:36 PM

116. history is revised with getting others onboard

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:19 PM

4. Bwahahahah ...luv ya Manny

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:21 PM

5. Did you not know to look forward and never back?

 


Looking back slows you down and the monsters might catch you if you do!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:22 PM

7. Yes, thanks, and I was recently informed we were all fooled by the WMDs anyhow

 

so it wasn't any of the Democrats fault, who voted for it. That is what an Obama-bot told me, believe it or not.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:30 PM

11. irrefutable satellite imagery...

 

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:05 PM

19. It was good enough to fool Congress. Well at least Ms. Clinton-Sachs. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:17 AM

38. It could have been rendered out of Lego blocks and Congress would have bought it. nt

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:26 AM

98. Maybe we should factor in what we now know about the NSA/CIA/FBI cabal. Maybe that will

 

help explain Congress's failure to reign in a war crazed vice president.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:32 PM

112. It also fooled

Joe Biden
John Kerry, and
Chuck Hagel

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:23 PM

8. Some day President Cheney's pacemaker

will be carved into Mt. Rushmore right next to Ronald Reagan's hair.

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Response to pscot (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:06 PM

20. Last time I saw the bastard I was pushing the button on my garage door opener like a mad

 

man, but nothing happened.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #20)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:14 PM

23. LOL!

 

Well, at least you tried.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:48 PM

151. Thanks for the much-needed belly laugh!

That would be a great demonstration if Cheney ever dared appear in public - with everyone clicking their remote controls at him.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:26 PM

9. McCain would have opposed the war.

Obama: "I opposed our military intervention there"

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Response to ProSense (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:48 AM

37. The other guy would have been comparatively more bad is a shitty argument.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #37)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:36 AM

72. Forgetting that Obama ended the Iraq war?

McCain would have continued it, probably to this day and beyond.

You saying that Obama's ending the war on the timeline he promised, is only slightly better?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #72)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:23 AM

87. It was not his timeline.

Obama simply promised to follow the Status of Forces agreement which was announced in August, 2008. That agreement said there would be no more U.S. forces after 2011.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20081119_SOFA_FINAL_AGREED_TEXT.pdf

If Obama considered Iraq a mistake he should have withdrawn forces in 2009. To ask troops to die for a mistake is immoral. And plenty died under Obama's watch.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #87)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:01 PM

101. No matter whose timeline it was

there was quite a lot of TV coverage of his trying to renegotiate it to allow the US to stay longer. We left 'on time' by the SOFA because the Iraqis simply wouldn't agree to let us stick around while at the same time being free to simply shoot civilians without getting in trouble for it.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:18 AM

96. Words, words, words, we're so sick of words

There's a song about that. I'll have to look it up.

I like this, and after the past decade, it has become my personal motto.

'Actions speak louder than words'!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #96)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:20 PM

123. Hmm

 

If actions speak louder than words, why is the pen mightier than the sword?

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #123)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:59 PM

127. Because writing is an action..

 

Because writing is an action...


(Six of one, half a dozen of the other... and both as irrelevant and brain-dead as the other)

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:43 PM

12. Obama failed to see that the Iraq war was a huge success.

 

If only he had given this speech the day our mission in Iraq ended:

It's harder to end a war than begin one. Indeed, everything that American troops have done in Iraq - all the fighting and all the dying, the bleeding and the building, and the training and the partnering - all of it has led to this moment of success.

Now, Iraq is not a perfect place. It has many challenges ahead. But we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq, with a representative government that was elected by its people. . . .

This is an extraordinary achievement, nearly nine years in the making. . . .

We remember the early days: the American units that streaked across the sands and skies of Iraq, the battles from Karbala to Baghdad, American troops breaking the back of a brutal dictator in less than a month.

We remember the grind of the insurgency: the roadside bombs, the sniper fire, the suicide attacks.

From the "triangle of death" to the fight for Ramadi, from Mosul in the north to Basra in the south, your will proved stronger than the terror of those who tried to break it.

We remember the spectre of sectarian violence. Al-Qaeda's attacks on mosques and pilgrims, militias that carried out campaigns of intimidation and campaigns of assassination.

And in the face of ancient divisions you stood firm to help those Iraqis who put their faith in the future. . . .

Just last month some of you - members of the Falcon Brigade - turned over the Anbar Operations Center to the Iraqis in the type of ceremony that has become commonplace over these last several months.

In an area that was once the heart of the insurgency, a combination of fighting and training, politics and partnership brought the promise of peace.

And here's what the local Iraqi deputy governor said: "This is all because of the US. forces' hard work and sacrifice."

That's in the words of an Iraqi. Hard work and sacrifice.

Those words only begin to describe the costs of this war and the courage of the men and women who fought it.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:49 PM

14. I am soooo sorry

 

for what the war criminals did to you.

I do not have words to accurately describe my feelings.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:55 PM

15. By the way, post 12 is supposed to be sarcastic. I am not as good at it as Manny though.

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:58 PM

16. I almost did not post

 

It sounded so real, you fooled me...

=)

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:09 PM

21. The joke was supposed to be in the fact that the speech I quoted was Obama's.

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:58 PM

34. From the point of view of the 1%, the war was a great success. A million dead, 5 million

 

Iraqi's displaced. All Iraqi oil privatized, and $1 Trillion dollars transferred from the lower classes to the 1%.

But not to worry. They figured out an easier way. Bank bailouts. Standby for Bank Bailout: "The Remix" coming to a bank near you in 2016.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #34)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:54 PM

167. That war was neither honest nor a mistake.

But what's coming in our future will be real.
Seven billion persons needing more and more resources.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:45 PM

13. BS

You forgot your sarcasm thingie. Some schmuck might believe you.

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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:17 PM

25. We are All Schmuckians Now

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:00 PM

17. Oh Jeez, this place has become a parody of itself.

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:04 PM

18. Do you support pardoning Bush and the War Criminals? I mean they had good intentions. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:50 AM

61. Who has talked about pardons?

 

Since that would be tagging them as criminals, do you really think Pres Obama would do that? This is the second thread I'm seeing that moronic speculation.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:21 AM

86. Do I understand that means you are against pardoning them? It would put this mess behind us. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #86)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:31 AM

89. Deflection is not helping your cause

 

There will be no pardons because that would be admitting the bush administration committed a crime. That's not going to happen. Whether I'm against them or not is inconsequential.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:08 PM

121. Do you consider them 'honorable men'?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #121)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:35 PM

124. Are you talking about

 

the current President or Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell? And I see you ducked my question - who, other than the "Obama sucks" brigade is even talking about pardons?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:10 PM

22. We were against it before we were for it.

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Response to bobduca (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:25 AM

79. It wasn't honest and it wasn't a mistake.

For Obama to compare what the Bush administration did to what Putin did just didn't come off that well to me. It was a big WTF for me.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #79)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:41 AM

82. US foreign policy stance demands dishonest rhetoric

Where "credibility" means starting illegal wars of aggression, and "fighting terrorism" has come to mean murdering innocent muslims at weddings over the internet.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:16 PM

24. Sure it was all in good fun. But some people don't know how to take a joke.

Always looking backward, dwelling on the past, instead of looking forward and going along to get along. Obama gets along, therefore he goes along. Just look at where it's got him.

Next up: Vietnam, a noble cause ! Or is it noblest cause?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

26. I do not think this country could take the truth at this point without ...

a civil war ... just look at what it took this country through for a blowjob ... can you even imagine trying our politicians for war crimes ... It would take forever and be extremely divisive to say the very least ...

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Response to MindMover (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:53 AM

40. That's a good point.

I think Obama's doing his best to hold America together.

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Response to MindMover (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:10 PM

137. "Extremely divisive."

Jeez--what would that look like?

And how would it differ from the present?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

27. Bull. Those who voted for war were either craven, conned, or corrupt. Iraq was obvious war crime

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Response to on point (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:47 AM

46. Exactly. If this bohunk out in the boonies knew it, so did those in Congress.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

28. What incendiary rubbish. n/t

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:46 AM

39. Burn, baby, burn ...

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Response to Whisp (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:48 AM

47. What? You believed? You think Congress didn't know it was a con?

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:45 PM

29. Schmucks and their money are soon parted..

And boy did we get parted.

We have a theme song...Don't look back.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:47 PM

150. Dammit.

I *did* like that song.



No more song analogies please, or at least make them country, or rap, or country rap, leave the classics alone!

-p

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Response to Phlem (Reply #150)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:52 PM

159. So did I...and I am not ashamed to say it.

It has a feeling of the time for me.

Please don't tell me there is such a thing as country rap...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:52 PM

30. Sure, mistakes were made. But Saddam was way worse than that Hitler guy.

Way worse.

I for one support our president for defending his predecessor's well-meaning efforts.
I mean, come on, you dreamy pony-coveters. This is the real world. We had no choice!

Besides, if it weren't for our timely intervention, Iraq wouldn't be the paradise on Earth it is today.

Hats off to President Obama!
Our long national nightmare is over.
And to former President Bush, this Bud's for you! (Here, have some pretzels.)


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

31. MUST. LOOK. FORWARD. (It's "the best we could do.")

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

32. Is this sarcasm? Please tell me it is!

 

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:16 AM

35. Depends on how old you are

If you're a Gen-Xer, its finely-crafted irony. If you're from any other age group, then its sarcasm.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:27 AM

36. P.S.

And under no circumstances is anyone in polite company allowed to imply that our hapless schmuckery of 2003 in any way represents a pattern of intentional deceit and profiteering that has yet to be properly dealt with in today's society. To do so would be to sink to the absolute depths of Obama-hate and Putin-love.

Now get out there and 'create jobs'...


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Response to cprise (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:06 AM

67. If it weren't for the MIC

unemployment would be 37% rather than 7%. I guess we should be grateful, but I'm not.

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Response to pscot (Reply #67)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:31 PM

115. Or...

We could concentrate on healthcare, education and green development instead.

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Response to cprise (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:22 PM

107. Source? I'd like to read the full article. [n/t]

 

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Response to cprise (Reply #117)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:18 PM

130. Awesome! Thank you.[n/t]

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:01 AM

41. Of all the backtracking Obama's done, this one hurts the most.


I really, really thought Obama would be different on foreign policy. As Dubya once said, "fool me twice, won't get fooled again."

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:23 AM

42. I don't even know what I'm going to reply with, but I feel I have to reply to this thread

I'm one of the disabled veterans produced by this war. I've repeated my story multiple times on this forum, but simply put I joined the Army when I was 17 in 1997 and I was totally gullible for believing that our politicians would only use our military to make the world a better and safer place around the world. I still want to believe that, but I've come to realize that I was lied to my entire youth and that is not what our military is actually used for. I grew up in a right leaning household and saw events of the late 80s and early to mid 90s through that slant. I believed the first Gulf War was justified as was our role in Bosnia and Kosovo. I never believed I would be involved in a war like Iraq and, due to my own ignorance and naivety, I got a front row seat to that war. I don't know what I was thinking. I sought out a position as an Infantry Officer and was placed as one when I graduated college in 2002.

I was completing my various training schools during the buildup to the war on Iraq at Fort Benning, GA when the war broke out in April 2003 and I landed a role as an Infantry Platoon Leader in Iraq from Fed 2004 through March 2005. I never believed that our war on Iraq was justified and I made it know to my commander about two-thirds of the way through our deployment during my annual review meeting. Based on my actions up to that point, my commander was totally shocked that I wasn't a "believer". I was rated as one of the top Lieutenants in the battalion.

I guess I have nothing really to say other than I was there and I have way more blood on my hands than I care to have. I'm sorry for going along with the war and I'm sorry for a lot of stuff that I'm not going to get into right now. Just don't forget that many people who fought in the war are victims too. They were lied to and deceived and found themselves doing things they were morally against too.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:52 AM

48. This old vet understands. Thanks for your post.

 

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:01 AM

51. Many of us know -

for me it was watching my dad come back injured from Viet Nam. He was much like you. In the early 60s he left his small town with the idea that he was doing something admirable for his country. Since then we've learned much more about Viet Nam (and he and my uncles learned a lot while they were there as well - especially the ones who worked as MPs).

I believe you.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:30 AM

56. I'm sorry for what you went through.

Our country should never put our citizens in the position you were in without a damn good reason. It was totally unnecessary, and it disgusts me that any of our 'leaders' are trying to make excuses for it now. It would have been better if the President had issued an apology for that war rather than have said what he said. Sickening.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:13 AM

94. I just want to hug you

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:32 PM

111. Thank you for your service.

 

You volunteered to risk your life in defense of your country. In return, it is our duty as civilian citizens to ensure that we don't put you in harm's way unless it's absolutely necessary.

We failed in that duty.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:06 PM

129. sorry, man..

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:44 PM

135. I have a teenaged son

 

There's only one political issue that we strongly disagree on. *I* think that *all* young adults should be drafted into the military, he does not.

I want this because I believe that the only way we can possibly stop old Americans from sending young Americans to die is to make sure their young Americans who suffer and die, too. The Clintons, the Bushes, the Obamas, the Romneys... they'll do what they can to keep their kids out of the military. Today, it's the 99% that serve as canon fodder. Add the 1% and things will change in a big way.

Thank you for wanting to defend us. I wish that good impulse had been put to better use by our society, and that you had not suffered. But I feel blessed that you, and others like you, have that good impulse to help out. And I hope that I can and will do a little to help, too.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:39 PM

145. As a mother

I just want to hug you and hold you and make it better. I have sons and this touched my heart. I'm all puddled up now.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:53 PM

153. I know you were lied to and deceived

And I don't blame you. Just like I don't blame my dad for Korea or Vietnam either. You were just doing your job.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:27 AM

43. I wonder if there is a "RINO Ronnie" over on FR

insulting the freepers to their faces, and half of them are guffawing and lapping it up.

It would be an easy thing to do, but it wouldn't be to help them, it would be to demoralize them.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:42 AM

45. Freepers don't do cognitive dissonance

Indeed, a total inability to exhibit cognitive dissonance is just about the prime characteristic of wingnuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the excessive mental stress and discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time. This stress and discomfort may also arise within an individual who holds a belief and performs a contradictory action or reaction. For example, an individual is likely to experience dissonance if he or she is addicted to smoking cigarettes and continues to smoke despite believing it is unhealthy.


Manny's posts are so amusing to some of us and so enraging to others of us precisely because he zeroes in on portions of the cognitive dissonance that is a large part of our political culture here in the USA.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:02 AM

52. Manny is the Stephen Colbert of DU.

Colbert makes fun of Republicans and conservatives, and sometimes they don't even know he's doing it. However, underneath the persona Colbert is a liberal.

Manny makes fun of Democrats and liberals, and sometimes they don't even know he's doing it.

I don't agree with Obama on this issue either, I just don't think a passive-aggressive OP that insults Democrats and liberals is the way to go about it.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #52)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:54 AM

62. I have never considered Colbert juvenile

 

Can't say the same for the writer of the OP.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #52)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:37 AM

74. "insults liberals"?

You must be using that urban dictionary again for your definition of liberal.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:06 AM

92. Manny is pretending to be a fictional Democrat insulting other Democrats

and calling them "schmucks".

That is a pretty big insult IMO.

And you know full well I disagree with the RW urban dictionary words used against liberals and Democrats like "moonbats" and "Obamabots".

I've been on DU a long-time. I'm a proud moonbat but I would never use that word against other liberals or call them scmucks (even in a passive-aggressive ironic way).

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #92)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:14 AM

95. btw

I couldn't find your post(s) about it again but I believe it was you positing on the origins of emoprog firebagger.

It was ABL blog (Granted, some more obscure blog could predate ABL) that brought those terms to the fore in 2009.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #95)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:21 AM

97. Fair enough.

It's all fun and games.

Manny does a good job of pointing out hypocrisy, but I think he's laughing at *all* of us on this site.

I could be wrong, I am a well known conspiracy theorist!

(Not really that well known, but it sounded more impressive).

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #97)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:23 PM

142. Manny *is* laughing at all of us.

 

He's even laughing at Manny.

In the end, we are all funny, and all tragic. We are all schmucks, too - especially Manny. i'm not joking about that: I wish I was.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #142)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:31 PM

166. Yeah, but we're ~elite~ schmucks

The few, the proud, the utterly looney.

This place cracks me up, it's one of the few things keeping me from taking off and nuking the entire site from orbit.

Just to be sure.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:52 AM

49. Yes, we should all go along with war for whatever reason, because otherwise we won't win elections.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:46 AM

60. I don't agree with Obama on this issue either

but I think the gratuitous self-inflicted insults in the OP are unnecessary.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:31 AM

44. What do you want? Mission Accomplished!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:59 AM

85. When do you want it? Duhhhhhhhh,

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 05:54 AM

50. Half the people in the Country don't vote and we think it's because they're lazy.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:41 AM

58. Half?!?!?!?!? Two thirds don't vote. A 30% turnout is a headline.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 AM

63. Sorry - but a lot are simply lazy

 

The two parties are not the same and only lazy thinkers use that argument.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:59 AM

64. I agree the two parties are not the same. But they're not different enough.

 

We get the same foreign policy, the same economic policy, the same energy policy, both parties wanting to cut the social safety net with the difference being 'how much'.

That ain't different enough.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #64)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:05 AM

66. Since the only REAL, lasting legacy

 

any President has are his nominations to the federal bench, that's the issue I vote on. Anything else can be undone by subsequent presidents or congress. A republican president would never have let the tax break for the wealthy to expire or even mention raising the minimum wage so no, they're not the same economically, a republican president would never even mention alternative energy so no they're not the same on energy policy and a republican president would have SHREDDED the safety net so they're not alike there either.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:03 AM

53. You nailed it this time -

and I see the wheels spinning as folks try to spin this one into something we'll accept.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:29 AM

55. Calm, Cool, and Collected, President Obama Schools ABC Reporter During Press Conference at The Hague

Calm, Cool, and Collected, President Obama Schools ABC Reporter During Press Conference at The Hague

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024732240

That one went viral on Facebook.

Enjoy.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #59)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:31 PM

149. Off getting his daily enema.

He'll be back when that mission is accomplished.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #149)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:12 PM

162. Nyuk nyuk nyuk! He should take his time.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:30 AM

69. Shrub Shrugged

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:31 AM

70. This thread needs more yellowcake

 

"He tried to kill my daddy." - Shrub

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:32 AM

71. So Putin should get free pass on agression because Iraq.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:20 AM

78. No, but this country has no moral credibility commenting on anyone invading anything

 

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Response to RandoLoodie (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:36 AM

80. That is exactly what I thought was meant by the OP.

So Putin does get free passes forever because Iraq.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #80)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:45 AM

84. I don't think that is the point

 

But the United States certainly has no business lecturing anyone about invading anything.

We lost that moral high ground (if this country ever had it) about a decade ago.


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Response to RandoLoodie (Reply #84)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:02 PM

102. It is exactly the point and you just repeated it.

Should the USA just withdraw from world affairs, ignore violations of international law,and refuse to stand by our European allies, because we invaded Iraq? That is what you are claiming.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #102)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:18 PM

106. That isn't what I am claiming

 

those are the words you are putting in mouth.

I only said what I said.

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Response to RandoLoodie (Reply #106)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:22 PM

109. Yes you said what you said and

it was perfectly understandable. There is no need to put words in your mouth, you are doing fine.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #109)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:23 PM

110. It gets better

 

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:32 AM

99. Logical Fallacy alert. Well right back at yeah, "Should we Stand Our Ground and nuke Putin?" nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #99)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:05 PM

103. Eithern you don't know what a logical fallacy is or

you alerted on yourself.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:10 PM

138. No one suggested that Putin should get a free pass and you claim. nm

 

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:15 PM

140. Yes, that's exactly what I said!

 

In an alternative reality.

Is this the best you can do?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #140)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:51 PM

146. No alternate reality is necessary to understand

what you said in this one, unless you just mean that you saw an opportunity to complain about President Obama and you took it..

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:18 PM

163. No, because Ukraine is about austerity, gas, and Monsanto.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:08 AM

76. This some f*kkin JOKE???

I am not going to forgive forget or change my tune. The #1 repeat #1 failure of President Obama was not holding the bad actors accountable. Because they ARE war criminals...
This is some stupid popularity trick-RighT?

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Response to Boxerfan (Reply #76)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:55 PM

160. Satire. And quite well done.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:19 AM

77. 100,000+ dead were better than Saddam. Remember he paid the families of Palestinian suicide bombers.

The bombings have stopped. Israel is no longer threatened... it was worth it.

For some.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:38 AM

81. We shouldn't bicker and squabble

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:30 AM

88. Can't I look forward to seeing Cheney and Bush in handcuffs?

It makes me smile to think of it. Then I sigh, realizing it will never happen, that America is NOT a land where "no one is above the law."

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:05 AM

90. Such cleverness

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:06 AM

91. Keep up the excellent work Manny - God knows, we need a laugh!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:11 AM

93. Yep. And, now we kill civilians (for their own good) with drones and call it "unforturnate".

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #93)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:40 PM

113. Indeed.

 

"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene! " -- Colonel Walter Kurz, Apocalypse Now

Sure, we destroyed Iraq, killed and displaced millions. We continue to blow up innocent women and children in third world countries because they look like they might be with someone acting like a "terrorist." But don't insult the President! That's horrible!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:07 PM

104. If you are being sarcastic or satirical, please indicate so. nt

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Response to raccoon (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:59 PM

136. Click on his "Journal" button

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Response to raccoon (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 PM

161. The entire TONE indicated it.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:31 PM

114. No, it was a lie to steal taxpayer dollars and steal oil!

No apology or lame ass excuse can never make up all the people Bush murdered!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:07 PM

120. Why is it that I have this guy on "Full Ignore" and yet I still have to see these moronic posts?

The oh-so-ironic-aren't-I-witty schtick is beyond tiresome.

And the answer is no, not witty. "Witless" comes to mind.

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Response to Richardo (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:11 PM

122. You don't have to see them. Let me help you to not see anything you don't want to see.

Whenever I see an OP written by someone I don't want to read, I just pass it by, definitely don't read it and never post a comment in it to tell everyone that I was forced to read it.

It's simple, next time you see Manny's name on an OP, don't click on it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #122)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:51 PM

152. I do believe that might be too complicated for the bots.

black and white is definitely not nuanced.

-p

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Response to Richardo (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:13 PM

139. For a guy who isn't paying a dime for DU's services, you're pretty demanding

 

Sheesh! Pony up a little something!

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Response to Richardo (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:28 PM

169. Did you say full ignore?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:44 PM

125. War Crimes never go away, they are too horrible to ever be forgotten

 

despite how many times its perpetrators and defenders wish it to be so.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:50 PM

126. I gotta wear shades....

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:05 PM

128. Golly, gee, everyone makes mistakes, after all.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:19 PM

131. I figured it wouldn't take long for you to show up with another shit-and-run special.

Jesus, how many people around here lack critical-thinking skills? At NO POINT does Obama defend the war as a good thing. He never, ever, ever, ever, EVER said that it was. He was attempting to point out that even when America is at its WORST (and using the Iraq incursion as an example), that we attempted to get an international coalition (which we did, for however brief a time it was) and we did not forcibly annex Iraq the way Putin is doing to Crimea. Therefore, Putin's analogy is false.

It really is remarkable. I've never met a more stubborn group of people than the Angry Brigade here on this forum. Instead of allowing facts to shape your opinion, you have decided to form an opinion then twist the facts to fit it instead.

You have decided--DECIDED--that Obama is a warmongering, neocon, Bush-lite asshole, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, you will interpret anything that is not "sufficiently" condemning or combative in nature that comes out of the President's mouth--whether it is about health care, foreign policy, or the opposing party--to mean that he's in league with those Bush-era chickenhawk assholes. You know what other political demographic thinks in unvarying shades of black and white?

Yeah. That's right. You know the answer.

You folks are too smart not to have critical reading skills, so please, for the love of whatever God you worship, stop pretending you don't have them for the sake of manufactured outrage.

I realize this post won't last long, but I felt like writing it because I'm sick to death of people shooting first and asking questions later.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #131)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:30 PM

132. and we fucking lied and bribed our asses off to get that coalition..

are you fucking shitting me?!!

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Response to frylock (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:38 PM

144. Do you think that Bushs "NSA" came in handy for that?

I think it was a lot more than bribes or lies. The world seemed to cower before a man who had difficulty speaking a coherent sentence at times.

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Response to frylock (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:55 PM

155. Ah yes, the Coaltion of the Billing!

Even the smallest of countries strong-armed/bribed into token participation by threats from the State Department to withhold aid. Moldova - 24; Tonga - 55; Iceland - TWO! What a pathetic international joke that "coalition" was!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:33 PM

133. Slick post, distressing content

 

I always enjoy your posts, MannyGoldstein.

Thank you.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:33 PM

134. Actually, it WAS an honest mistake.

The plan was to drive out Sadaam's regime, replace it with a puppet government and take over the oil fields.

Their honest mistake was thinking they had the competence to do this.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #134)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:57 PM

156. Well and succinctly stated!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:19 PM

141. We voted for the guy who knew it was a mistake from the get-go.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #141)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:22 PM

165. He was against it before he was for it, lol!

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:35 PM

143. Good one, Manny!

thanks for giving me a chuckle in the midst of all the sickening threads here by the pompom squad.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 06:54 PM

154. Did he say it was "initiated and managed properly" ??

I can't see that in the link those words lead to.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:08 PM

157. To use a legal term, what President Obama did was to distinguish the Iraq war from Crimea

Remember that President Obama is a lawyer and a law professor. What President Obama did in his speech was to distinguish the Iraq war from the situation in Crimea. Here is a simplified explanation of this concept. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/distinguish

Distinguish
To set apart as being separate or different; to point out an essential disparity.

To distinguish one case from another case means to show the dissimilarities between the two. It means to prove a case that is cited as applicable to the case currently in dispute is really inapplicable because the two cases are different.

The Iraq war is a very different situation compared to the conduct of Russia in annexing Crimea. In his speech, President Obama did not defend the Iraq war but merely explained why the Iraq war was not relevant to the conduct of Russia in annexing Crimea.

As a lawyer, there is a huge difference here.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #157)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:21 PM

164. I agree, the Iraq war is distinguised in that it was a far worse crime. Especially torture, right?

 

Torture is worse than a referendum, right?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #164)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:25 PM

168. Well, in Rumsfeld's fevered imagination the Iraqis greeted us with flowers and candy.

 

That's better than a referendum, right?

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