Constantly referring to President Obama as a "used car salesman" is expected of a RW racist.

[ProSense]

It should not be acceptable on a site promoting Democrats.

[sufrommich]

1. Or an immature cry for attention.

The solution is to not reward the attention getting maneuvers.

[LordGlenconner]

63. That's my take as well

The need for attention is strong in that one.

[Orrex]

104. ^^That

[Whisp]

107. There is something wrong, and his 'friends' should have a talkie with him privately

but instead they are encouraging that sick behaviour by cheering him on.

Something is very wrong.

[Andy823]

205. Exactly!

It's the same lame BS with the same lame crowd day after day, nothing but negative crap and smart ass insults. Of course it's the "Obamabots" that the problem on this board, according the them!

Why they get away with it is beyond me.

[JaneyVee]

279. I told everyone that cynicism makes people hateful and bitter.

Look at all the cynics on DU, bitter and filled with hate. Les Miserables.

[lamp_shade]

332. Precisely.

[lamp_shade]

643. ..

nudge

[randys1]

376. Rightwing racists

The right in America completely lost what little mind they had when Obama was first elected, and they have not experienced a rational day since.

The hate is beyond words.

And the fact that this November our country is going to look around and say "the problem is not enough republicans" makes me want to cry...

[wryter2000]

425. Welcome

[passiveporcupine]

433. I don't believe the people on DU who don't like Obama

Are right wing racists. I know people who despise him who are very progressive and not the least bit racist. They are angry that he isn't progressive enough. And I agree that he isn't, but they close their eyes to all the good things he has accomplished in his time fighting the republican'ts.

I am an progressive idealist, as I wish everyone was, but know that isn't true and cannot be true. I'm also a realist and don't expect miracles...and I realize that in a country that is both progressive and conservative, change doesn't happen quickly. That's not to say we cannot keep fighting. We must keep fighting, and it hurts to see the ideologues just give up when they don't get everything they wanted. People who quit never win.

[randys1]

440. ...

No, criticizing Obama from the left is absolutely sensible, I do it everyday, though I am careful to remember that he needs support and the alternative is literal hell on earth.

Criticizing him from the right is pure hypocrisy and racism or bigotry depending on the person.

Almost everything Obama has done was OK with righty before he was for it.

[calimary]

663. Welcome to DU, randys1!

Glad you're here! It's just almost blindingly mind-bending, isn't it!

Your statement here: And the fact that this November our country is going to look around and say "the problem is not enough republicans" makes me want to cry...

MAN, no kidding! No Freakin' Kidding!

[randys1]

685. thanks

watching life story of Bill Hicks at the moment, thanks for the welcome

[rhett o rick]

427. I thought whining about DU violated the SOP. These hateful threads arent going

to help us in 2014.

[MADem]

482. This thread isn't "whining about DU." It's taking issue with a characterization of the POTUS. nt

[rhett o rick]

492. Ah yes, "taking issue" not whining. Sadly, I think you believe it. nm

[MADem]

505. It's not about "believing" anything--it is about being able to read and write

in the English language.

Sadly, that can be a challenge for some to comprehend, quite apparently.

Whining about DU is "I don't like this jury result," or "I think this poster is an asshole." Or even "Why don't the admins change the TOS to include my pet gripe?" The kind of stuff that the admins--not mob rule--resolve.

Taking issue with a characterization of a political leader would be something like "I don't like the way the POTUS was portrayed in this post. My view is the opposite of this opinion."

By your POV, anyone who posts a dissenting view on any topic after a post is written is "whining about DU." But see, your POV is just wrong.

[rhett o rick]

511. Whining about DU is "I dont like that someone posted something that isnt positive

about the President". It's getting out of hand with thread after thread after thread of how no one should say anything bad about the President. If you dont think we should speak out, even if it looks remotely unfavorable towards the President, then you dont understand what a Democrat is.

And you said: "it is about being able to read and write in the English language. Sadly, that can be a challenge for some to comprehend, quite apparently." You just cant have a conversation with out getting into the shit.

[MADem]

596. Thanks for so eagerly proving my point. You're pretending that "DU" is synonymous with

"the President." One is a website for liberals and progressives who want to elect more Dems and fewer Republicans to public office...and the other is the President of the United States.

See where you tripped yourself up, there?

What's getting "out of hand" is posters who ignore this rather salient paragraph in the TOS:

One more thing: Don't push your luck.
The DU Community Standards state: "It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints." Members who demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior over time and end up getting too many of their posts hidden by the jury (measured by raw number or percentage) may be found to be in violation of our Terms of Service. If you seem to be ruining this website for a large proportion of our visitors, if we think the community as a whole would be better off without you here, if you are constantly wasting the DU Administrators' time, if you seem to oppose the mission of DU, or if the DU Administrators just don't like you, we will revoke your posting privileges. Remember: DU is supposed to be fun — don't make it suck.

See, a lot of people think that calling POTUS a "piece of shit used car salesman"

--Does NOT promote a positive atmosphere.

--Does NOT promote 'good discussions.'

--Demonstrates a "pattern of disruptive behavior"--particularly when it's done more than once, "con brio."

--Ruins the website for a large number of visitors (judging by the pushback from competing threads on the subject).

--Seems to OPPOSE the mission of DU.

And last, but most certainly not least;

--Makes DU suck. Once makes it suck a bit. Twice makes it suck to Walt Starr proportions. Rallying minions to cheerlead that kind of suckage? Now, the meter is pegged.

It's not my website, but if it were, I'd get out the Hoover and vacuum up that mess, and empty the bag straight away.

And as for conversations, you can't seem to have one without making a nasty personal comment. Like you just did, yet again. Wonder why that is? I'm not talking about you, your 'tudes, your mama, your mental state--any of that "shit." I argue the merits. All I do is tell the truth, and you think it's hell, to paraphrase Harry Truman.

You don't want to be called out for not reading before hitting the reply button, then just read the posts before you respond to them--it takes a few minutes, but believe it or not, it actually makes for better conversation. I urge you to make it a habit.

[Cha]

599. Excellent points, MADem..

See, a lot of people think that calling POTUS a "piece of shit used car salesman"


--Does NOT promote a positive atmosphere.

--Does NOT promote 'good discussions.'

--Demonstrates a "pattern of disruptive behavior"--particularly when it's done more than once, "con brio."

--Ruins the website for a large number of visitors (judging by the pushback from competing threads on the subject).

--Seems to OPPOSE the mission of DU.

[MADem]

605. I read that ToS every now and again!

I wish more people would--we'd probably not have to deal with so many of these "drama club" posts.

Remember the old DU rules?

I used to read those things every month or so, because they kept getting bigger and bigger, longer and longer! I've kept the habit with the ToS and the Community Standards, as well as the Statements of Purpose for the forums and groups. Doesn't hurt to remember why we're here!

[Hekate]

612. Here, hear, MADem. nt

[MADem]

613. Why, thank you! nt

[Bobbie Jo]

640. Nailed it. nt

[rhett o rick]

664. This OP is intended to stir up trouble and it's one of a dozen or so lately

aimed at the same thing.

"It's not my website, but if it were, I'd get out the Hoover and vacuum up that mess, and empty the bag straight away. " I think that says it all right there. Purge all those that dare speak out and dont follow the script. Well good luck.

[MADem]

676. Ahhhh....I see what you're saying!! YOU are entitled to express an opinion--but I'm not!

See how that works?

It's not a question of "purging" those who "dare to speak out." Anyone can "speak out." People do "speak out" here, every day. They differ on a wide range of issues. The difference is, they do it civilly, without the junior high school drama, without the attention-seeking histrionics.

I guess the concept of disagreeing without being disagreeable is a foreign one to you?

Policy differences are expected on ANY discussion board. But name-calling, with or without profanity, and childish insults? Those are the mark of an individual who is having difficulty expressing him or herself in an adult manner.

[calimary]

674. I must admit I've been bothered by that "piece of shit used car salesman" bit ever since I saw it.

Um… you'd prefer the alternative maybe? republi-CONS would work out better for ya?

I'm afraid I was hurt and disappointed. I hate seeing discord being sown anywhere - and especially here. We're all supposed to be shoulder-to-shoulder against a common enemy, aren't we? The President is NOT the enemy. You'd rather have romney in there? Or mccain with his pathetic little idiot girlfriend-sidekick in their second term? Sowing seeds of that level of discontent - at least in my sometimes-feeble opinion - is really only sowing the seeds of Dems-throw-up-their-hands-and-stay-home-on-Election-Day-because-they're-just-all-alike. And that gets you the GOP back in the White House. If that's not counterproductive, I don't know what is. I'll bet slinging shit like that is just what warms the cockles of the CONS' "hearts" (assuming of course they even have hearts). They LOVE the smell of Democrats tearing each other apart in the morning. Hey kids, let's treat them to MORE!!!!

These are excellent points, MADem.

See, a lot of people think that calling POTUS a "piece of shit used car salesman"

--Does NOT promote a positive atmosphere.

--Does NOT promote 'good discussions.'

--Demonstrates a "pattern of disruptive behavior"--particularly when it's done more than once, "con brio."

--Ruins the website for a large number of visitors (judging by the pushback from competing threads on the subject).

--Seems to OPPOSE the mission of DU.

[MADem]

677. I agree with you. He's not the enemy; he's a guy doing a tough job with a House that has

gone out of their way to screw with him, continuously and deliberately, since the GOP got the majority, and a Republican caucus that has had making his life miserable their personal agenda since Jan 09..

[MADem]

481. Indeed....

On this thread, which was inexplicably hidden,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024736507#top

but which can still be rec'd....there is a theory that the "cry for attention" is a way of auditioning for new employment.

There's also a report at that same link that he's attracted some right-wing attention at a conservative hate site, as the newest "leftie" spokesman against the ACA.

It's all very embarrassing.

[one_voice]

501. That was a bullshit hide. n/t

[MADem]

507. Concur completely. Times like this, I wish Skinner could "undo" grievous errors like that.

On the bright side, the thread can still be rec'd!!!

[freshwest]

569. Rec'd. Don't see much in the other threads that show anyone gives a flying fuck about people...

These Do-Nothings profess a commitment to social change for ideals of justice, equality, and opportunity, and then abstain from and discourage all effective action for change. They are known by their brand, 'I agree with your ends but not your means'.

~ Saul Alinsky

[steve2470]

589. +1 nt

[Jamaal510]

606. I love that quote there.

[Number23]

510. The fact that post was hidden while the unhinged spittle flecked stupidity that lead to it was not

is indicative better than anything of how far this place has fallen. The trolls have been squatting at DU for a long time. Now they can be proud to call it home.

[MADem]

590. Yes, ma'am. I think you nailed it!

I cannot argue against your conclusions!

[steve2470]

591. nailed it

more like AntiDemocraticUnderground.com now.

[Cha]

519. Just Rec It, thanks. Wow.. that was a Bullshit hide. The real used car salesman

is such a fucking divider.

[itsrobert]

524. It's intended to SELL BOOKS and Webclicks to Blogs/Websites

n/t

[Cha]

601. Much like the glenn greenwald bullshit

hate on the President posted here.

[steve2470]

588. yep no reward nt

[louis-t]

2. It's Republicans that are used car salesman.

It's what they do. It's what they are. They give their followers a handful of dog shit and convince them it's a bouquet of roses. It's the only reason they have been successful at winning any elections. They've convinced their followers that there is massive voter fraud, Obama was born in Kenya, there are death panels in ACA, and these people believe them.

[hopemountain]

412. wasn't issa a used car saleman at one time? nt

[louis-t]

417. He was a car thief....

[joeybee12]

3. I disagree...no racial overtones at all in this...however, calling Barbara Lee

a hustler...now that's racist.

[ProSense]

6. Equally BS, and typical of RW racists. Both uncalled for. n/t

[joeybee12]

22. You could say calling Obama a used car salesman is insulting,

but I don't think it's racist or intended to be.

[ProSense]

26. It's despicable name calling, and on the level of what a RW racist would do.

Period.

[JackInGreen]

51. Yes, name calling is despicable

but not racist in this case I think.

[brush]

108. It's borderline racist IMO

Last edited Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:56 PM - Edit history (2)

And he didn't just called him a used car salesman, he called him a "piece of shit used car salesman" — some, including me, feel that that was dangerously close to stepping on or over the borderline.

This particular serial ranter also went off on the president after the SOTU speech by claiming he used the injured solder by parading him before the nation . . . or some such foolishness.

It seemed to go over his head completely that the president asked the solder to appear and then went on to make a profound anti-war comment to "get off permanent war footing" so that we wouldn't continue to have servicemen and women return with shattered lives — a pretty clear juxtaposition, not that subtle or hard to comprehend.

There definitely seems to be an attention-seeking, talking point-like agenda with that particular serial ranter.

[3Stones]

218. Agree 100% with your post!

Sometimes I feel I'm reading from a right wing page when I read those type of comments here.

[TheKentuckian]

315. How is "piece of shit used car salesman" racist at all or even borderline?

I find the accusation absurd, unreasonable, and unsupported by even stereotype.

Why would you assert such a thing? What is the rationale?

[brush]

325. You may not find it offensive and borderline racist . . .

but I do, from personal experience.

I'm a black guy. You might be black but I'd guess you're a white guy.

So I think we come from totally different perspectives on the matter.

There is no call for what Pitt did, especially on this site. If I want to read that crapola about a sitting Democratic president I'll go to freeperville. Have some respect for the office for God's sake!

And BTW, they're laughing at us because of Pitt's post on gopthedailydose.com.

Giftedgirl77 alerted me, see the link:

http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/03/21/leftwing-editor-turns-angrily-obamacare-calls-obama-piece-sht-used-car-salesman/

No way we should be giving the repugs ammunition for the 2014 mid-terms with posts like Pitt's.

[grasswire]

331. but have you ever sold used cars?

Now, the term "cotton picker" would be racist. Or "pimp". Or any number of other terms assigned by racists.

Used car salesman? Not so much.

[brush]

349. But what about "piece of shit used car salesman" . . .

or the "trained ape . . ." comment by Rumsfeld about Obama.

Or the "lazy inner city men who don't want to work" by Paul Ryan?

To me they're all from the same dog-whistle-cloth that comes out sometimes with a careless slip of the tongue and reveals true feelings.

[Smarmie Doofus]

369. Mmmmm. Perhaps you're painting w. a broad... ahem... *brush* here.

POS used car salesman = disrespect? Sure.
= racist? No

Lazy inner city men, trained ape? Yes.


Everything that annoys one is not "racist".

Often it's just annoying.

Broad brush.

[brush]

378. Perhaps, but IMO the brush isn't that broad.

Why even go there calling the first black president a piece of shit on a progressive site no less?

It's very close to dog whistle stuff, agenda-driven, teaparty stuff to me. All he had to do was misspell a couple of words and he would have been right there.

But he's a writer so I don't expect him to misspell words. But because he is a writer, i do expect him to be able to express himself better than calling a sitting Democratic president a "piece of shit" on a progressive site.

No excuse for it.

Borderline.

[wryter2000]

428. The mere fact that they're insulting Obama in ways they never would a white President

makes it racist. Whether the specific content is racist or not.

[TheKentuckian]

678. Why do you think I'm white because I won't jump on the call anyone racist as a casual defense

bandwagon?

I am no more white than the President and no less black.

[brush]

686. No casual defense IMO

Starting with the teaparty, from overt racist name calling to subtler dog whistle code words directed towards the president have become common.

Calling the president a piece of shit is not even dog-whistling, it's so cavalierly thrown out, like it's acceptable, that it's certainlly makes me wonder what that particular serial ranter's agenda is.

I haven't seen that vitriol directed at say Boenher, or Issa, or McCain, but with a black president it's OK, and a Democratic one as well?

I don't think so.

[TheKentuckian]

688. I think all kinds of motherfuckers are pieces of shit and worse and have said so

Now am I racist against everyone but some island and aboriginal folks (largely due to lack of exposure to enough to find the sure shitballs).

There is no special tie into racism with "piece of shit", not that it is anything but raw invective, white hot with ZERO kindness inferred but racist? Only when tied to racist overall argument.

Call it vile, call it nasty, call it beyond the pale, call it absurd and uncalled for but racist is really reaching and seemingly depends on some weird telepathy and a bizarre take on human psychology that thinks a turncoat (doesn't matter if you agree with that assessment, if the person does woe be unto them that they think sold them out to the enemy) should draw less ire than an enemy.

Also, I have to say the tact seems somewhat selectively dishonest. Plenty of white folks get the shit slammed out of them and called everything but a child of God. Even supposed Democrats like Lieberman, Landrieu, Harry Reid gets killed by both sides and the middle, I've seen Alan Grayson treated like shit to his fucking face right here on this site, MAX BAUCUS! (are you kidding?), Hillary Clinton gets shredded and TeaPubliKlans? Never seen the grave pissing road trip threads, the frogmarch their asses to the guillotine threads? Dubya? DICK CHENEY (are really you being serious?) Rick Scott (of course it is all true)?

Even your examples are wrong, you can surely find plenty of hot pokers being poked are returned all three, especially Issa and McShame when he was of any relevance to anyone aside Sunday morning talk shows.

You seem to have decided that talking shitty about a black President is inherently racist and I argue that is silly because it doesn't really explain the preceding 200+ years of talking shit and nasty about Presidents that has clearly been the case even at the highest levels from the very beginning.

Not to say there isn't a TON of very racist shit in the mix too because there is no shortage at all but you can't wrap all discontent, disrespect, nastiness, or even outright contempt up in that same package just because some is motivated exactly by that doesn't mean all of it is at all.

You can't even articulate what the racism you are calling out is. You are talking about teabaggers and vitriol you "haven't seen" to turn a common expression that usual makes one think of a poorly dressed and unsavory looking middle aged white guy as a racial slur when it just isn't and now you and others want to INSIST it must and can only be so despite it not ever being such before in this culture.

This has crossed into looking for the boogieman territory now. Being black is no defense from people talking crazy about you.

[brush]

689. You made some good points . . .

I remain unconvinced though.

[bravenak]

328. Probably because it resembles a remark made by Ted Nugent recently.

He calls the president a piece of shit, WP calls him a piece of shit used car salesman. Same tactic. Similar wording. It is a tactic used by the right wing against the President everyday. Say something completely nasty and disgusting until it becomes commonplace to use that particular terminology when referring to the president.

If someone has a disagreement with me and rationally explains it, i may not agree but i can respect them having an opinion. If they were to start by calling me a piece of shit 'something' i would know that it is personal and not merely criticism. I would hope that others around us would not be applauding the person calling me a piece of shit 'something'.
If they did, i would know there was something wrong with them.

[grasswire]

393. why would ANYBODY listen to Ted Nugent?

Why do any Obama supporters apparently go out of their way to follow people like that?

[bravenak]

406. It gets posted here.

Thats why we make comparisons.

[TheKentuckian]

611. People (especially politicians) have been compared to used car salesmen since Nugent was thought of.

Probably somewhere about the time of the emergence of the used car market or not long after.

Now, if the discussion is if Nugent is a racist then that is what it is but if it is about a common expression being applied to someone you don't agree with being called out so then I say it is a baseless accusation and pretty much slander. The person may be as racist as The Nuge but by no means is such indicative or even an indicator of such.

I don't find Obama to be particularly honest because he is very, very skilled at using open, neutral, and vague wording in combination with brilliant delivery that promotes people filling in their own blanks and when another possible permutation actually happens it isn't well received.

I feel lead down the primrose path on the WealthCare and Profit Protection Act, myself. I'm glad my efforts have some real positive impact on real people's lives but I would not have put it in if I knew the final overall law despite some critical modifications, even confined within the context of market based reform.

Without the community health centers and the innovation waiver possibility, it would probably cross over into offensive.

Pounding a few pay to play features does not offset the totality of the law and what it by fundamental design must do which is to prop up, enrich, and entrench the insurance cartel. As is, there may be possibilities though far less certain than some advocates like to present. Especially some that used to at least admit concerns in the form of "we'll fix it later" that now as expected have settled down into the full court press.

Being angry and personal isn't racism either, even if you feel it is misguided or even flat fucking nuts.

[Hekate]

615. It was in regard to Dick Nixon: "Would you buy a used car from this man?" because he looked shifty

... not because all politicians were being compared to used car salesmen. It was particular to Nixon, good ol' Tricky Dick, back when he was running against Jack Kennedy.

[TheKentuckian]

668. Are you saying folks were racist for comparing Dick Nixon to a used car salesman?

[grasswire]

327. "serial ranter"

You mean like Nance Greggs?

Or do you mean like Thomas Paine?

[brush]

363. I mean going off more than once on a preferred target nt

[Cha]

572. Yeah, a rw site is jerking off to the full blown used car hateon..

http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/03/21/leftwing-editor-turns-angrily-obamacare-calls-obama-piece-sht-used-car-salesman/

There's money in Obama-hate and this "serial ranter" has find his little used car niche.

[freshwest]

587. Very much the same as the GOP did on all the same subjects. n/t

[whopis01]

221. I don't think they are saying that the term is racist.

I think the point is that it is an insulting term, and it is expected that a rw racist would use insulting terms against Obama.

[brush]

237. WTF is going on here?

He didn't just call the president a "used call saleman", he called him "A PIECE OF SHIT USED CAR SALESMAN."

Let's acknowledge the huge elephant in the room here and stop defending and being nicey nicey about the rant and acting like all he insulted the president with was "used call saleman".

It was borderline racist (even racist to many) and just the tiniest shade less offensive than Rumsfeld saying a "trained ape would have better foreign policy than Obama".

The for sure racist quote from Rumsfeld is so typical of RW, repug insults of the president, and "A PIECE OF SHIT USED CAR SALESMAN" is right there with it, which goes directly to what the OP asserts.

[joeybee12]

240. this op is in resposne to the most recent used car salesman thread...

POS is not used there...sorry, not racist, rumsfeld's words are, o'reilly's words are, but a rant against Obama, no matter how offensive, does not automatically equal racism.

[brush]

282. I read the original "piece of shit used car salesman" thread

Was there another Pitt thread? Did he clean up his language from the original thread by not using the "piece of shit" part of his original quote?

[joeybee12]

370. There was a new one today...

I didn't see POS on that one...

[brush]

380. A new one by Pitt?

So he cleaned it up, huh?

Still no excuse for the first post.

[freshwest]

619. Google images on Obama is full of conservatives calling him a POS. This ain't rocket science. n/t

[wryter2000]

431. +1000 n/t

n/t

[Cha]

633. Thanks brush

[one_voice]

410. I agree..

I don't think it's racist--saying he did a shuck and jive, bamboozled, or hustled would fall into that category.

Used car salesman is a fucking disgusting insult, that sounds like it came from the depths of Freerepublic/Redstate etc. They have an unsavory reputation and are often slick liars.

While I don't agree with everything the President has/hasn't done I find I can address it without using teabagger language.

Those that want to throw out but it's ok if it's Bush---Puuuullllleeeezzzeee.....not even close to being the same.

[earthside]

418. 'Used car salesman' is not a racial epithet.

It is a term used in political rhetoric to describe a politician trying to pull a fast one or being facile with the facts.

Pres. Obama deserves, in my opinion, Will Pitt's description on this matter.

Frankly, I'm getting a bit concerned about the President ... has he lost his zeal for the office?

[NOVA_Dem]

27. Prosense is legitimizing RW stereotypes about liberals.

If you offer criticism of the President you're labeled a racist whether the criticism is valid or not.

[ProSense]

45. Nonsense. Name calling isn't "criticism." n/t

[AgingAmerican]

222. But the OP with the unsavory title

...is criticism, and legitimately so.

[alp227]

143. Why are you repeating a right wing taking point

claiming that liberals see any disagreement of Obama as racist? The sentence you wrote is requested all over sites like free republic.

[NOVA_Dem]

155. Why are you supporting a false accusation of racism?

[alp227]

170. Can't answer my question, so reply with a loaded question.nt

[NOVA_Dem]

183. This thread is about Will Pitts use of the term "used car salesman" and if it is racist.

Do you believe it is racist? That's the point of the thread.

You know this is a call out thread to shut him up and deligitimize him as a racist.

Prosense is reinforcing a negative stereotype of liberals as "crying racism" whenever you disagree with the President.

It isn't a talking point. It's a statement about what "they" say about "us." RW's accuse us of very thing Prosense is doing in this thread.

I don't know why you're afraid to answer a simple question.

[alp227]

287. Simply using that term about obama is not racist. BUT such terms appeal to racists.

Think about Reagan talking about "states' rights" in a 1980 campaign speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi. On its face it's not bigoted in any way. But Reagan...disagree with his politics all you want...had a sharp political strategy. Keep in mind that Philadelphia, MS was the site of the murder of civil rights workers nearly 15 years before and the term "states' rights" became a loaded term in Southern politics for nearly a century as a justification for Jim Crow laws.

In this era with Obama in office and the anonymity of the Internet, right wing bigots feel less ashamed to be bigots. Sure, most of the big name right wing bloggers do stay away from the overtly bigoted language, but if you read the comments sections of sites like Newsbusters, The Blaze, etc. you'll see bigoted language so nasty you'd think you're in another galaxy. This is the Lee Atwater strategy of appealing to racists without appearing overtly racist. By turning otherwise innocent terms like "forced busing" into loaded language.

I have endless respect for Will Pitt and his writings. He's gotta watch his language though. I go to DU to avoid being swarmed by Freeper rhetoric and right wing snarl words. It should OK to disagree with Obama. It shouldn't be OK to talk like a Freeper.

[freshwest]

603. The tone is IDENTICAL to RW sites. That's why they're LOVING that OP. They know it. n/t

Last edited Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:17 AM - Edit history (1)

[AgingAmerican]

226. Who played the race card here in this thread?

???

[alp227]

295. The OP implied calling Obama a "used car salesman" is racist.

I would agree merely slightly but not completely. Because of the Southern Strategy I think there's a lot of buzzwords out there used by people who really wish they could call Obama the N word.

[frylock]

424. can you cite any reference to the term as being racist?

[freshwest]

600. Yes, continuously since 2008. Certain levels of abuse are racist. n/t

[uponit7771]

190. Another winger meme

[truebrit71]

191. Exactly...

..and to think Pro$ense often accuses all who disagree with her of being agents of the RW...

[Ishoutandscream2]

158. +1. Calling the president a used car salesman is overboard

And isn't for here. However, I don't see where that can be classified as racist.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Where, in the post you're referring to, the is the RW or Racist part?

[ProSense]

10. No willful ignorance, please

"Where, in the post you're referring to, the is the RW or Racist part?"

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is what RW racists do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. I repeat, where in the post, is the racist or RW parts?

[ProSense]

29. I repeat: The label and constant use of it is what RW racists do. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. Are you then accusing him of being a RW Racist?

If you are, present the evidence.

[cheapdate]

73. The evidence has already been presented...

i.e. - constantly referring to the president as a "used care salesman" is typical behavior for a right wing racist.

I'd say there's a strong possibility we're dealing with a RW racist -- based on that.

Case closed.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

82. Did referring to Richard Nixon as a "used car salesman" make one a RW racist?

Does calling a used car salesman a used car salesman make one a RW racist?

Does defending the mass slaughter in Iraq make someone a Texan?

[thucythucy]

112. As I recall, the line about Nixon was "Would you buy a used car from this man?"

The idea being that he was too untrustworthy to buy a car from, let alone trust with executive power and the launch codes.

It was less an insult to used car salesmen than a statement about the honesty of "Tricky Dick."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

115. But, was it racist? Was "tricky dick" racist?

I'm still looking for the "racist" part of WP's post. Or, for that matter the "RW" part.

[thucythucy]

121. Was it racist? I don't think so. Nt.

[Voice for Peace]

133. clarification, I think, in order to avoid further unnecessary squabbling

there are such people we all might agree are RW racists.
Tons of examples of such folks all over the internet,
media, in churches, even congress.

Such folks tend to employ a particular tactic regarding
the President.

ProSense wasn't saying Pitt is a racist; but that he is
employing the same tactic used by such folks.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

148. Will was talking about Obama's lame defense of the Iraq war.

And, exposing it for it was in forceful, albeit accurate, language. Whereas, he RW (whether racist or not) and many Democrats supported the war. See Hillary and Kerry for some references.

Obama's statement was an obvious attempt to whitewash an act of aggression as a "mistake" with worthy consequences. I think that falls under the "used car salesman" rubric quite well.

[Voice for Peace]

169. ok we disagree. I view Obama, and his statements, differently.

As you know there are people who label the President.
Many labels he has gotten from people who are not
progressive; "piece of shit used car salesman" sounds
like Ted Nugent.

Will is doubling down for some reason. It is a similar
tactic used against Obama by RW detractors and malicious
intruders of every ilk.

I'm sure many of them, who hate the President and
seek to undermine him at every turn, are thoroughly enjoying
Will's rants.

[brush]

261. Your chonology is off

The original Pitt op came before any "lame Obama defense of the Iraq war. It was about the ACA.

He called the president not just "a used car salesman" but "A PIECE OF SHIT USED CAR SALESMAN"?

Everybody seems to be conveniently forgetting the "PIECE OF SHIT" from the original quote. So now he's cleaned it up?

There is no place for that kind of name-calling of a dem president in the first place (and name-calling is NOT criticism) on this allegedly progressive site.

It should have been hidden immediately. This is not freeperville. Why it was not is, IMO, a poor reflection on DU. It was an extremely poor decision by the jurors to leave it up.

And I'm betting that we'll see that quote used in the 2014 mid-terms by repug candidates running against the ACA in ads quoting Democratic Underground as being anti-ACA and anti-Obama.

[giftedgirl77]

296. I googled Obama used car salesman to see how many

actual quotes would pop up & this was the first link. I don't know if it was the intended purpose at the time but since he has doubled down with the statement now apparently he has found the phrase quite catchy. It is not amusing & everyone here should be disgusted & embarrassed.


http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/03/21/leftwing-editor-turns-angrily-obamacare-calls-obama-piece-sht-used-car-salesman/

[redqueen]

299. "he is employing the same tactic used by such folks"

This is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. ProSense correctly pegged this whole 'what racism are you calling him racist?!?!?!' nonsense as the willful ignorance it so clearly is.

[ZombieHorde]

146. So it's actually left wing and not racist? nt

[Doctor_J]

229. Ding! Vanity thread alert

Much like the one referred to in the OP.

I had no idea that "used car salesman" is now considered racist. I repeatedly called the previous resident of the WH a drunken, cocaine-addled sociopath. I guess that was racist too.

[cheapdate]

445. The proposition in the OP had nothing whatsoever to do with Richard Nixon,

or actual used car salesmen, or Iraq, or Texans.

The proposition was this: "Constantly referring to President Obama as a 'used car salesman' is expected of a RW racist." Notice that it has nothing at all to say about any of those other things.

Furthermore, and this is really the important point, the next line in the OP makes the point of the message unquestionably clear: "It should not be acceptable on a site promoting Democrats."

Get it? The OP doesn't say anywhere that no one should ever disagree with the president. What it does say is that our disagreement shouldn't use the language of the right. I agree completely with that sentiment. I would go even further and say that our disagreement should be expressed as respectful disagreement.

Serious people understand that coalitions and alliances are absolutely necessary for any real progress. That doesn't mean abandoning principles but it does mean that disagreements must be handled respectfully. Tantrums and meltdowns toward prospective allies are an impediment to progress.

There is nothing wrong with respectful disagreement. Some people seem to believe otherwise -- that unless disagreement is expressed in hysterical terms, it's not genuine or not meaningful.

Emotion is good. Emotion is necessary for the message of the progressive left to ever win converts.

But vicious negative attacks against the leaders of the Democratic Party are not helpful. Alliance with the Democratic Party, for all of its flaws and contradictions, is the ONLY viable path forward for making progress through participation in the political process. That's political reality. Support third parties and independents when it makes sense, but third parties and independents are simply not a factor in national politics -- not in any practical sense.

Burning bridges and carrying grudges might make some people feel good or feel in control, but it's only an illusion. Real power and real control will only come through alliances and coalitions.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

514. Hate to tell you this, but independents outnumber both of the establishment parties.

Holding our public servants accountable is the responsibility of the citizens in a democracy.

[cheapdate]

541. I agree completely

that holding public servants accountable is the responsibility of the citizens in a democracy. But I also believe that the Democratic Party is an absolutely vital partner for any positive change within the established political process and that disagreements between Democrats or between Democrats and their prospective partners and allies must be civil and respectful.

There may be many people who claim to be independents. I'm sure that number is inflated by the growing number of people who are embarrassed to proclaim themselves Republicans, and probably many who feel the same way about the Democrats. But the reality is that virtually all real political power is still held by the two major parties and that's not going to change very quickly. As I said in my previous post, independents are not presently a significant factor in a practical sense. Not yet.

[Whisp]

123. if it quacks like a Ted Nugent....

[CBGLuthier]

269. You show an incredibly poor understanding of logic.

Your evidence is just a claim and not self-supporting.

[cheapdate]

419. ...and you show a poor understanding how truth and language

function when deciding whether we have a positive or negative opinion about a person.

For example, my belief that someone is an asshole isn't usually dependent on a logical syllogism. Nor is it usually contingent upon the kinds of rules of evidence that are found in a courtroom.

I'll put my understanding of logic against yours any day.

[DrDan]

171. along the lines of the labeling and constant use of the term "hater"

exactly what I would expect of a RW racist

[Union Scribe]

20. I'd like to know as well.

Surely you wouldn't just toss an accusation like that out without hard evidence right?

[Rex]

110. Nope. That is exactly what is going on just look at the replies.

He is, because I say he is. End of discussion.

[Whisp]

128. Ted Nugent is a known shitball racist and he uses piece of shit to describe the President as well

what more freaking 'evidence' do you need?

[Jackpine Radical]

38. Will-ful ignorance?

Summat close to the line, no?

[ProSense]

39. Yes, and the point is made. n/t

[Supersedeas]

223. willfully ignoring the diversity of used car

salepersons....

last I checked, those in car sales come in all shapes, colors, and sizes...but that doesn't fit the ideological kneejerk reaction to any criticism of the President.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

478. Calling our Democratic President that, is not only right wing, it doesn't belong on DEMOCRATIC

Underground. In fact, I'd be all for removing anyone that attacks our DEMOCRATIC President, here on DEMOCRATIC Underground. If someone wants to use that terminology, they can use it on Conservative whatever, or on some lunatic website.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

508. Authoritarian much?

Obama may be a Democrat but he's still a public servant and accountable to those he serves and pays his wages.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

509. You clearly need to read the Mission Statement of DU nt

[randome]

5. Maybe he'll reverse himself in 24 business hours.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[Richardo]

7. ...

[littlewolf]

15. oh my ... that is gonna leave a mark. nt

[randome]

33. You would think so, wouldn't you?

But not everyone is capable of learning and evolving from his/her mistakes.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[redqueen]

304. THIS

[Tarheel_Dem]

179. LOL. Used to have a great deal of respect for that one.

[KittyWampus]

192. Even after the last tantrum, I had respect for Pitt. Since it involved his wife, I cut some slack>>>

this seems to be nothing but an attention whore desperate for some relevance.

If I knew Pitt in real life, i'd recommend he stay away from politics entirely and blog about fatherhood.

Or some other topic entirely and get some perspective back.

[kysrsoze]

244. No more tantrums for me. He's now on my "Ignore" list. It's very refreshing.

[Tarheel_Dem]

273. I think the board's other well known ranter was getting more attention. Vying for position is hard,

especially if you're attention whore. It's a tag team now.

[polichick]

8. It's a non-partisan reference to a salesman of bad products...

Something Dems shouldn't be, but too often are these days.

[Maedhros]

535. Vote Democrat, and get New Improved SUBPOENA POWER!

With New Improved SUBPOENA POWER, wash away Republican war crimes and make the White House sparkly clean!*

* Offer expires 11/8/2006. Terms and conditions subject to change.

[laundry_queen]

582. That's basically it.

however, the pretzel twisting going on about that particular choice of words....

[hfojvt]

9. so did you alert?

And should call-out threads be acceptable? And insinuating that long-time DUers are RW racists?

Is the policy being sold a lemon, or not?

[lillypaddle]

25. It's okay, though, to call

long-time DUers cheerleaders because they MOSTLY line up behind the president? Doesn't this insinuate that we are merely sheep, unable to make objective decisions and aren't we entitled to our own opinions? WTF is going on around here? The nastiness has gotten almost unbearable.

[hfojvt]

80. no, name calling is generally unproductive

although RW racist seems to me a lot harsher than cheerleader when it comes to names.

And when it comes to "our own opinions" each side sees the other side as "swallowing propaganda".

And certainly there is some of that. For example, when I was trying to prevent the Bush tax cuts from becoming permanent, I certainly WAS trying to get people to agree with me, to fight on MY side.

And unfortunately, Obama was fighting on a different side.

And other people certainly ARE trying to convince people to support Obama. And some people ARE trying to convince people to be angry at Obama. Either way, I guess, people are supposed to be outraged about the other side - the other gang, the other tribe http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3409710

[NuclearDem]

11. I don't think it's necessarily racist.

But it is petty, and it's getting old.

[cali]

12. although I've never called him that and wouldn't- codswallop to your absurd claim

if anything the stereotypical image of a used car salesman is a smarmy white guy with a lot of hair product.

[ProSense]

17. Nothing "absurd" about the claim, which is why you're distancing yourself from the label.

"if anything the stereotypical image of a used car salesman is a smarmy white guy with a lot of hair product."

Are you serious? You think that's a justification?

As I said, the label and constant use of it is what is expected of a RW racist.

[reddread]

35. all those RW racists who made the used car salesman analogy against Nixon?

You are so full of shit.

[ProSense]

43. What utter silliness. n/t

[reddread]

53. calling someone a racist is not silly

If shame could fall out of the sky like a piano you would be in some big trouble

[aikoaiko]

147. And the jury results are in...

On Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:09 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

all those RW racists who made the used car salesman analogy against Nixon?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4735022

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

'so full of shit', is over the top.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:13 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 'full of shit' is pretty mild for this place.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: yep, dial it back a notch reddread.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: ProSense gets away with calling memebers RW racists, but can't take being told she's full of shit? Bummer.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I tend to agree. It's over the top. We can be pissed off at each other and disagree with each other and confront each other but being civil to each other has to be in the mix. This just didn't feel all that civil.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Whisp]

161. It is not possible to have stricter rules about supporting Democrats

for the upcoming midterms if the jury system remains as it is.

This is getting totally out of hand, and I know Skinner wants the Pontius Pilot role but I hope he is reassessing what a free for all like what this post allowed, (and the OP, omg the OP is kick your ass out of here material) can mean.

[grasswire]

342. I assume you mean "Pilate"? nt

[Whisp]

351. No, I mean Pilot. Sky Pilot. Can you beer me, Major Tom? n/t

[thucythucy]

308. The line about Nixon was

"Would you buy a used car from this man?" The inference being that he wasn't trustworthy. Not an accusation that Nixon was some sort of used car salesman.

Then too, it's awfully difficult for me to see Richard Nixon as a target of racism. Barack Obama, on the other hand....

[cali]

62. no it's not. and I'll thank you to try not to attribute motives to me when YOU have no

clue.

what you're doing is utterly distasteful. tacky to the max.

[Voice for Peace]

149. what I see here is a bunch of people misunderstanding each other.

[hootinholler]

55. Don't forget the cheapo sports jacket

Preferably in plaid.

[AlbertCat]

134. It's racist

it a "polite" substitute for "uppity" and "shiftless".



It can legitimately be interpreted this way because, context counts. It is not some isolated slur. It must be evaluated along with the history of name calling for Obama.

[Whisp]

258. and who else calls the Pres these sorts of names: Ted Nugent.

That nails it if you ask me.

If the OP is using Ted Nugent's words and expects NOT to be called racist, well - I guess he thinks he's a bigger 'star' that he really is if he expects that to slide. Maybe that is his whole problem, he is not the star he thinks he is, he is realizing it, and is acting out.

[frylock]

426. how the fuck can it be interpreted as such?

how?!! is snake oil salesman racist now too?

[alp227]

157. heh

[sharp_stick]

13. I prefer the term

attention whoring instead of racist but "used car salesman" is an over the top term used just to piss everyone off.

[cali]

16. trying to shut up critics with FALSE claims of racism is contemptible

despicable.

[ProSense]

24. Constantly referring to the President as a "used car salesman" is not about "critics"

It's the kind of name calling that one expects from RW racists.

That is what is "contemptible."

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

61. I haven't ever referred to him by that phrase

but the vast majority of used car salesmen I've ever seen over the decades, whether in person or on tv have been white, so I'm not sure where you're getting 'racism' out of that, as opposed to just insulting.

[reddread]

30. bottoming out

but what can you expect? They have their backs against the Iraq policies of a stolen administration,
and they have that administration's back!
They need some scapegoats pronto, and Nader is not gonna work here.

[cali]

67. It's contemptible. It doesn't have a shred of intellectual honesty to cover

the unattractive truth of the op's agenda: Shut up people who criticize the president.

there is nothing even the tiniest bit racist about referring to the President as a "used car salesman".

[ProSense]

77. It would require "intellectual honesty" to acknowledge the point, and not attempt to distort it. n/t

[reddread]

88. completely contemptible. Is there really any standards of decency here?

This pretty much shatters any illusions about that.
On the other hand, Im afraid they havent hit rock bottom yet.

[Whisp]

139. ''Is there really any standards of decency here?''

certainly not in the OP... please proceed reddread.

[Bobbie Jo]

463. There used to be....

But that was before your time, apparently.

[DirkGently]

130. It's also race-baiting. And carefully tailored to juuuuuust

avoid directly calling out a DUer and calling the person a "RW racist." It implies that someone must be a "RW racist," which is laughably unsupportable, but really is just nasty pot-stirring.

And likely conceived as "flypaper" in hopes of getting someone angry enough to jump over the line.

Childish in the extreme. And bad strategy.

Meeting name-calling with far more offensive, not to mention wildly off-base name calling is a loser.

This is the precise behavior that undermines any argument that Obama partisans are more reasonable or more civilized than those who criticize.

I'll take a thousand people taking a questionably harsh tone in criticizing over one full-time, dedicated pot-stirrer playing games with charges of racism any day.

Who wouldn't?

[cali]

217. quite right.

it's about as ugly as you can get to insinuate that someone is a racist. I'm not a big Will Pitt fan, but sneakily calling him a racist is about as low as one can stoop.

[DirkGently]

250. It's very "RW" to rely on cutesy tailoring as well.

Calling someone you disagree with a RW racist and then (and I cannot believe I am even typing this) PRETENDING that saying 'expected of a RW racist' keeps it somehow inbounds is a level of childishness that beggars belief.

It's the verbal equivalent of the kid in the backseat, having been told not to touch his brother, pointing a finger right in front of his face saying "I'm not touching you!"

Really? You guys think this is a winning approach?

THIS is the way real rightwing idiots think. "Oooh, but we didn't say WE wanted to hurt the President, we said 'SOMEONE SHOULD' do that. Har har har."

With the little smirk and the stupid guffaw to go with, of course.

Somehow a certain level of intellect has entirely lost track of the fact that others can actually SEE you acting in bad faith, and the fact that you get your friends to scream along with you doesn't create an argument that will convince anyone.

No one thinks racism or rightwingers has a single thing to do with whatever the post is that has a few unfortunate people in such an uproar. No one. Not the people saying it. Not the people defending it. Every single person reading any of this knows the OP is nothing but a cutesy, small-minded ploy of the weakest possible kind.

It's a level of discourse that is beneath a small child. Beneath anyone, but the most contemptible and thoughtless of internet poo-flingers.

Very sad to see on a liberal discussion board.

We are supposed to be smarter than this.

[laundry_queen]

584. The same tactics the right used to try to sell the war.

"We didn't SAY Iraqis attacked us on 9/11"

And here it is, on DU, being used against DUers.

[brush]

277. This to me show the jurors made a huge mistake . . .

in leaving that post by Pitt up.

We wouldn't have all these off-shoot threads with raging arguments if they had just hidden that disgusting post.

And why isn't everyone using the whole quote — "piece of shit used car salesman"?

Is that being conveniently forgotten?

[cali]

289. I can't agree that will's op should have been hidden

I wish he hadn't posted it, but that's another story.

I also wish the President hadn't addressed the issue the way he did.

[brush]

313. The first time

Guess there's always a first.

Cali, this is the first time, as I recall, that I have to agree to disagree with you.

DU, IMO is not freeperville. I still think the jurors made a mistake by leaving that post up.

BTW, they're laughing at us because of Pitt's post on gopthedailydose.com.

Giftedgirl77 alerted me, see the link:

http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/03/21/leftwing-editor-turns-angrily-obamacare-calls-obama-piece-sht-used-car-salesman/

[DirkGently]

292. That's called "The Heckler's veto."

You don't censor things on the basis that someone will have an insanely inappropriate reaction to it.

You disagree; you think something's over the top, or in bad taste, you address it. You don't take it to an entirely new level of stupid by race-baiting and playing cutesy games as to whether you're calling someone out or not.

If anything, people who react like this should be provoked more often. They need understand they can't poo-fling people into silence.

[OnyxCollie]

494. "Flypaper" OP's

It's purge time, baby!

[Rex]

18. It's a good thing GD is now the new META.

[JNelson6563]

19. It reveals a simplistic perspective of things, that's for sure.

But hey, it's good for attention. And when one isn't busy gazing into the reflecting pool with Narcissus, getting lots of fawning attention is the next best thing I suppose.

Julie

[Whisp]

21. Absolutely, it just shows how immature and pathetic the attention seeker is.

Reading comprehension in regards to Obama now agreeing with the Iraq War: Fail
Oh, I really meant the CAR was a piece of shit! : Fail
Oh, I wouldn't have made a death threat if I knew it was a *girlllllll, but sure if it was a guy, why not?! : Fail
Takes 3 months to help find ACA solutions and can't but blames Obama: Fail
Karl Rove Indicted!: Fail
Attempted invention of a new way to record passing time as 24 Business Hours: Fail

The Fail is strong in this One.

[sheshe2]

57. +1

[msanthrope]

174. Oh come on! The attempts to diagram that sentence would have made Sister Polycarp,

my fourth grade teacher, laugh in disgust and amusement.....

Oh...no one was calling the President a "piece of shit"...no, no...merely that he is a used car salesman who sells pieces of shit.

Seriously...if I'd called the President a piece of shit, I'd have the courage to own it. I wouldn't try to defend myself by backing down and claiming that everyone who reads English simply misunderstood the placement of modifiers.

[randome]

323. 'Polycarp'?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[msanthrope]

324. Know your martyrs......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_of_Polycarp

[MADem]

610. I used to hate that sentence diagramming stuff--I don't know if they make the kids do that any more!

If no one was calling POTUS a piece of shit, I guess when someone talks about a "millionaire used car salesman" they mean all the cars are "millionaires!" Who knew?



Yeah...that's the ticket!!!

[okaawhatever]

177. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[uponit7771]

193. Could someone clue us in on the "24 Business Hour" ... it's been in some other threads

... +100000 on your post

[Whisp]

211. When truthout ran the Karl Rove is Indicted! story in May of 2006

they gave a time when it was to actually Happen.

Well, obviously it didn't happen at that particular time (or ever) so when questions were starting to be asked about that, Jason Leopold and Pitt explained that it was '24 business hours' and not real time, just to bide their time until the story became real to their fanciful little heads.

yeh. it was that stupid.

So a lot of people started to disbelieve the whole made up stories (we have sources, honest!) and calling the OP out after which he had a fit with calling everyone on DU a fucking asshole, including Skinner if my memory serves, that gave him a hard time about the comical '24 business hours' and questioning his greatness. I think that was One of the times he was given a 'time out' from DU. There were others, that is why he is now Will Pitt instead of William Rivers Pitt and some other variation.

[uponit7771]

232. thx! lets me know WP has always shown this pattern of behavior

[Whisp]

248. always. Which make me think he and Greenwald make a good team.

similar styles.

[uponit7771]

255. Makes one go hmmmmmmm....

[jeff47]

231. That poster's problem was solved in 24 hours

thanks to the help of DUers who ignored his bullshit and offered ways to fix the problem.

[uponit7771]

235. ah... the medicine thing that got 150+ recs

[dionysus]

360. no, karl rove was supposed to be indicted within 24 hours... when that didn't happen, it changed to

24 "business hours"...

..and then it just.. never happened...

[lamp_shade]

345. That's my take as well.

[lamp_shade]

441. ...

nudge

[freshwest]

604. You win the thread! n/t

[IrishAyes]

23. Couldn't agree more.

[Whisp]

28. I had an uncle that was a used car salesman and he had integrity...

something more should aspire to seeking.

[pnwmom]

31. Yes, it's a personally demeaning slur that implies the writer

disagrees with everything the President does. In which case, the writer really doesn't belong here.

[snooper2]

32. I think he is worried about his job...With election season coming up

He is just trying to rally the "far left" as much as possible to get MONEY MONEY MONEY

We all know it's going to be Dem vs. Repuke and he is running out of time to use the far left vs. left meme. The far left will get completely drowned out when we have the next Sarah Palin to make fun of and Romney to investigate.

So I think he is trying to get the last few months of far left rararrrrarwwar out I mean, what's he going to write about in a year. They all suck so stay home? Also notice he drops his shit bombs then never replies, stays away from DU for days. Then cycle repeats.

&list=UUCZ4F8iGWpWh7eOi1v8wTTg

[Whisp]

151. There is a connection between truthout and Glenn Greenwald.

https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/organizations

Greenwald most likely gave orders to spread feces - I mean if Truthout is on the donation page of Freedom of the Press, of which Greenwald and Poitras are directors, among others, how likely it is that someone who works for TO gave the President a fair shake?

[snooper2]

167. interesting, the more we know

[Spazito]

284. I figured there was an agenda behind the recent anti-Obama rants and it was ...

related to Truthout, your post makes eminent sense re the Greenwald ties whose constant anti-Obama rants are beyond nauseating.

[Whisp]

276. can we rename it Toothout? That was Painful to watch.

Talk about used car salesmen! omg.

[Cha]

623. How about

hateout.com? He wouldn't know the "truth" if it gobsmacked him.

Heartening to see all these Peeps Rec PS's thread.

[Glassunion]

34. Is "used car salesman" a racist remark? (nt)

[frylock]

430. anything directed towards Obama that isn't painted in a positive light is now racist..

terms that have never before been used in a racial connotation are now to be considered racist. fucking unbelievable and an affront to people that have suffered because of REAL racism.

[krawhitham]

484. Oh, no no, it's cool, He's taking it back

[Octafish]

37. Bullshit.

You're free to disagree, but don't label someone something they are not.

[ProSense]

42. No, it's not "bullshit"

"You're free to disagree, but don't label someone something they are not."

More attempting to justify despicable name calling.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[Enthusiast]

405. Calling someone a used car salesman has nothing to do with racism.

It does not.

It might call one's honesty into question but it is not a racial epithet.

[Logical]

468. Amazing how easy it is for you to call someone a racist. n-t

[uponit7771]

195. unless they do the same things as the label right? I mean, walk like a duck talk like a duck?

[William769]

40. The OP survived a jury.

Good!

[Logical]

469. Yours did not......good! n-t

[William769]

479. I don't mind taking one for the team for such a worthy cause.

[Logical]

483. No one gave a shit about your post. It was sinking like a rock. lol. nt

[William769]

487. It bothered someone enough to alert on it.

P.S. From the time it was posted till it was hidden, it never left the front page and was recommeded enough to make the trending on the front page!

What have you got? Thats what I thought.

[Cha]

523. Oh that one got a nerve touched! thanks for taking

one for the team, William.. I just Rec it!

[William769]

543. Thanks. Looks like someone is away licking his wounds.

[Cha]

553. Love Wins, William..

[Cha]

521. Oh yeah.. it's still getting Recs and it's locked.

[sheshe2]

577. I did!

And it's still getting rec's!

[Bobbie Jo]

580. Yuck.

Do you have another gear?

[cui bono]

632. You just pointed out exactly what the problem on DU is. You think you're on a different "team" than

other DUers.

What are the teams?

I thought we were all here to stand up for Democratic Party principles, you know, like defending democracy, the constitution, equal rights.

But now I'm confused. So what team did you "take one" for?

[The Second Stone]

41. Was it racist when we called Nixon a used car salesman?

Not all criticisms are racist.

[Zen Democrat]

68. I immediately thought of the question always asked about Tricky Dick ...

"Would you buy a used car from this man?" Inasmuch as Nixon was a crook, it was an appropriate question.

[The Second Stone]

109. Yes, well, we are really old

old and in the way.

[G_j]

44. is anyone going to explain how the term "used car salesman" is racist?

no? I didn't think so.

[ProSense]

52. Well,

"is anyone going to explain how the term "used car salesman" is racist?"

...first one has to understand the point, and not ignore it.

As I said, it's despicable name calling.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[G_j]

59. impressive dance steps

using the term racist, without technically breaking the rules. tricky!!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

78. Just because you repeat something over and over again doesn't make it true.

"The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists. "

You're displaying faulty logic here. Just because you personally have decided that you 'expect' it, doesn't actually make it so.

Reality is probably a Venn diagram, with a set of people who are RW racists, a set of people who repeatedly use that term, and some tiny fraction of overlap.

Most racists are no doubt calling the President far more insulting things. And even most people who are insulting towards the President probably aren't racists.

So instead of actually giving even the faintest justification for your belief that 'RW racists' would use the phrase 'used car salesman', you simply sidestep and repeat the same claim over and over, without even bothering to explain why you think the phrase is something to which a "RW racist" would gravitate.

[ProSense]

89. "Most racists are no doubt calling the President far more insulting things."

It's a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it.

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

100. That's a better reply than you gave other folks, at least.

I think 'constantly repeating' any particular name is lazy, myself, unless the behaviour that results in the insult is also constantly repeated.

Perhaps those who are using it feel they are constantly and repeatedly being 'hard-sold' on policies and ideas that don't live up to the promises made.

[leftstreet]

154. So, you can't explain how it's racist

I was genuinely curious since I've never heard a racist claim like that

[ProSense]

159. I can't "explain" the point to anyone who can't seem to get it. n/t

[leftstreet]

166. Is 'used car salesman' associated with skin color?

Yes or No

I've never heard of something like that

[arcane1]

227. Isn't this only the second time the term has been used?

[Cha]

608. No.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4686372

And, for the record.. he wouldn't know the "truth" if it gobsmacked him.

[AgingAmerican]

283. We expect racists

...to call people Used Car Salesmen?

Hmmm.....ok lol

[whopis01]

364. No one claimed that the term is racist.

I'm not arguing one side or the other or accusing anyone of being racist - just trying to explain some of the confusion in the argument.

Calling someone "stupid" isn't racist. The term "stupid" is not racist. However, calling someone stupid because of their race is racist.

The argument in the OP was that using a derogatory term when referring to Obama is something that would be expected of a RW racist. And I would agree with that. I would expect that a racist would use derogatory terms (not necessarily always racist terms) to refer to the president.

However I would not agree that anyone who used a derogatory term for Obama was a racist. And the OP never made that claim either. What they did, in my opinion, was carefully word their post to make it appear that was what they were implying while preserving a logical escape route for themselves. I believe it was posted as a trap designed to get readers to make a simple logical error and bait them into an argument over it.

[Thinkingabout]

46. K & R, this should not be on DU, joining in with RW noise should be left to FOX.

[hootinholler]

47. What if he gets a job at Car Max?

I'm not getting the racist! part. Care to explain?

[Katashi_itto]

48. Op # of posts 113,961

On Du 9 years

12,662 posts a year

average 1055 posts a month

running at 35 posts a day, say an average 30 day month....

quite hefty for a single person

Kudos.....

[Thinkingabout]

165. And Prosense does lots of research in his post, quiet accomolished.

[Katashi_itto]

337. Yep, I'll bet almost like it's a team at work

[Thinkingabout]

348. Why are being critical?

[Katashi_itto]

358. Go do some research of the op anti-snowden posts...

Runs like a disinformation campaign

[Thinkingabout]

366. I have researched, find the pro-Snowden misinformed on several areas

I have read their post and other articles written by the pro-Snowden. I have researched Sniwden and those who surround him, there are problems. post by Prosense may not be what you want to hear but it doesn't change their facts. Is his post why you are critical?

[Katashi_itto]

387. I don't think the OP is what it presents itself to be.

[reddread]

437. and what is that, anyway? some sort of portal?

an orifice, maybe?

[reddread]

442. 114,031 posts and counting in 3064 days

Last edited Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:05 PM - Edit history (1)

37.2 posts a day, EVERY day.
I salute that sort of commitment and level of participation.
Even if it is somewhat dedicated to shutting down and diminishing the participation of others,
ON A DISCUSSION BOARD.
They were never willing to post as much, anyway.
whoever they were, they were never a match.

[Bobbie Jo]

462. Yawn

Yes, you've "weighed in" with this brilliant theory before, yadda, yadda...

oh hey, welcome back. Enjoy your vaca??

[Katashi_itto]

636. Lol! Better than yours

If thats the best you can do

Welcome to ignore,

[Bobbie Jo]

641. lol

"Better than yours?"

Better than my what?

[Iggo]

49. Who's constantly doing that?

[dilby]

50. You should probably stay out of political discussions if you are too thin skinned

to hear someone you like get called a name. It's politics and just because someone puts a D next to their name does not mean everyone has to wave a flag and say how great he is, that is what republicans do. I like being under a tent where people call our elected officials out when they mess up, it means we hold them responsible and they are not just getting a rubber stamp because they ran the ticket with a D next to their name.

[ProSense]

56. Would be better to leave the RW-style attacks out of a site supporting Democrats. n/t

[dilby]

95. When the Primaries begin your head is going to explode.

People will be bashing Dem's all over this board to get their favorite elected. Again just because someone puts a D next to their name does not mean they escape criticism or name calling.

[ProSense]

129. No, it will not, and I'm certain a lot of the despicable name calling will be checked. n/t

[Hissyspit]

125. This site has ALWAYS allowed criticism of Democrats.

[ProSense]

132. Depicable name calling is not "criticism" n/t

[Hissyspit]

136. Either is false accusations of racism.

[ProSense]

140. Neither is distorting my point,

"Either is false accusations of racism."

...which is that it is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it.

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[Hissyspit]

145. I got EXACTLY the point you were making.

You don't have to actually accuse him of racism.

All kinds if tactics are associated with the right-wing.

[ProSense]

185. "All kinds if tactics are associated with the right-wing."

And despicable and gratuitous name calling is "associated" with the RW.

[Hissyspit]

215. "Despicable and gratuitous"

Like bringing racism in where it doesn't apply?

[BlackAndBeyond]

397. +1

[DevineBovine]

394. Well stated, dilby

It's always distressing when, faced with the discomfort of unexplainable failure, the knee-jerk reaction of the apologist circle is to question values and loyalty, as well as promote division.

Hypocritical loyalty over ethical consistency is an ugly character trait.

Peace

[Bobbie Jo]

467. Welcome to DU!

Noobs are everywhere today.

[Bobbie Jo]

466. Welcome to DU!

Who opened the gates today?

[MANative]

54. He's been so far over the top lately that I've...

Finally put him on ignore. Too bad it doesn't hide posts from Trending, etc. I used to have great respect and admiration for that author. Sad to say that's no longer the case.

[solara]

65. I have to agree

[ColesCountyDem]

118. I'm doing the same thing. n/t

[GoCubsGo]

122. My sentiments exactly.

Sad.

That being said, while I agree that calling the president a "used car salesman" is insulting and derogatory, I don't see it as being racist.

[Demo_Chris]

58. This thread should be an embarassment to us all. nt

[ProSense]

60. No, "embarassment" in speaking the truth. n/t

[RandoLoodie]

71. But what you are saying is not the truth.

[ProSense]

75. Ah, but it is. Welcome to DU. n/t

[RandoLoodie]

76. Unwavering, irrational devotion to any politician is servile

[ProSense]

79. Again, welcome to DU. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

135. Good Lord

The "noobs" are crawling outta the woodwork today.

I hope MIRT is up to the task. No doubt the freeper trolls are climbing over one another to join in the slimeball games and take their shot under the cover of "criticism."

[Common Sense Party]

138. This one has a theme song:

After all, he's just a man.

[LanternWaste]

92. Conflating opinion with truth is what RW racists do...

Conflating opinion with truth is what RW racists do...


(insert distinction without a difference here...)

[ProSense]

102. Is that true or is it your opinion?

I stand by my point: The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

I see other acknowledging that despicable name calling is a trait of the RW. The examples are out there.

Repeatedly using a derogatory label in referring to the President expected of RW racists. That is a fact.

[Whisp]

168. The embarassment is who this thread is about.

If he chooses words like Ted Nugent chooses in 'critizing' (hahahaha, so funny, critizing!!) that is what is EMBARASSING and especially if so many gullibles fall for it.

The science of Karl Rove at work.

[Bobbie Jo]

290. With the added embarrassment

of the fan club cheering it on.

"Principled" my ass. That theory is officially shot to shit.

[Whisp]

306. +++ Hard times ahead toward the midterms.

They are prepping already - a bit earlier than last round and now that DU has different rules, a la jury, things don't look too well for the 'democratic' part in democratic underground.

[freshwest]

616. A lot of Nugenty talk here. Feels like... RW team spirit! n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

64. When your material becomes indistinguishable from

Nugent's, it's time to step away from the damn keyboard.

[freshwest]

620. +1,000!

[rug]

66. Referring to critics of President Obama as "RW racists" is expected of a zealot.

It should not be acceptable on a site promoting progressive Democrats.

[reddread]

99. +1

how do you reign in such bad behavior?

[sheshe2]

69. And the "Rec'ing" crew will be out in full force.

To cheer Pitt on!

Wow and here I just left a thread with posters denying there is any anti-Obama sentiment on DU!

[Marr]

70. I understand you adore the president, but you undermine real complaints of racism by

crying wolf like this every time you think it will make a useful attack.

[ProSense]

81. No one is "crying wolf"

The fact is that some prefer to ingore the trend, attempting to justify despicable name calling.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[LanternWaste]

94. Two posts make a trend?

Two posts make a trend?

We may then apply that consistently, or are we reserving a special dispensation to this one only?

[tkmorris]

113. "attempting to justify despicable name calling"

Yeah, about that. How many posts do you have in this thread defending your OP?

[ProSense]

119. ? n/t

[tkmorris]

127. I really don't think you are confused Pro

[NOVA_Dem]

98. False accusations of racism delegitimize real victims of racism.

The President has faced real racism and this devalues the real hate he's faced. This is a pathetic attempt to shut up another poster with a hateful false accusation.

[frylock]

432. exactly

[dogman]

72. Name calling name calling seems unproductive.

It strikes me as giving cover to RW racism. I believe the burden is on President Obama to prove otherwise. Many feel he is too comfortable with corporatocracy, which should be unacceptable to Democrats. Seems like this site is here for this reason.

[polichick]

74. So you're claiming that used car salemen are likely to be black?

[BainsBane]

83. I don't like the comment myself

but I don't think it's necessarily racist.

[Rex]

101. Overreaction.

I don't think the POTUS is anything like a used car salesman...but I also don't understand how that is a racist comment. Stupid, yes. Racist...how?

WHY all of the sudden is GD now META? HELLO HOSTS!!! Are we happy with this new development?

[ProSense]

111. It is

"I don't like the comment myself but I don't think it's necessarily racist."

...a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it.

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[JustAnotherGen]

84. Here's the thing ProSense

I believe that 90% of Republicans are raging bigots who hate us (I'm black - so I'm talking about myself).

5% aren't - they just haven't been around black folks and hold a lot of stereotypes - they can be saved/helped by exposure.

5% really are not bigots - my friend Kathy is an example of that.


So if a Republican makes a statement like that - I believe it is a racist/bigoted thing they are slinging at Obama.

Now if you lie down with dogs - you get up with fleas.

[Bobbie Jo]

103. This place is long overdue for a good flea bath. nt

Last edited Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

[JustAnotherGen]

114. n/t

[redqueen]

317. +1,000,000,000,000

[mountain grammy]

85. Resorting to ridiculous and mean comparisons regarding our president is what Rumsfeld just did.

and those who do it here put themselves in his category.

[Trajan]

86. bullshit

[HereSince1628]

87. Some forebearance wouldn't be a bad thing

for·bear·ance [ fawr bérrənss ] patience, tolerance, or self-control, especially in not responding to provocation.

As in "That reply showed admirable forebearance in dealing with an emotionally difficult poster."

OR... "That person didn't have the forebearance to work the problem and went off half-cocked blaming problems with his insurance choice on others."

[malthaussen]

90. Oh, I disagree.

A RW racist would use a much more pungent vocabulary.

Hell, we used to call Nixon a used car salesman, don't you remember?

-- Mal

[corkhead]

93. Personally, I think this thread is more divisive than the one you are referring to.

unjustifiably throwing the race card at another DUer shouldn't be allowed IMHO.

[Katashi_itto]

637. Thats exactly what this thread was designed to do. Look at all the op's threads, the major ones

all do that.

[uppityperson]

96. Skinner's reply to him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4734689
Disappointed to see you doubling down on calling the president names.

No, I'm not telling you to stop. I just figured you might want to know that some people don't appreciate seeing that here. Just in case you care about that sort of thing.

[Hissyspit]

141. Yeah, I especially notice the part where Skinner accuses him of

right-wing racist tactics.

[uppityperson]

156. Oh. eom

[Bobbie Jo]

173. No, Skinner is far too gracious for that.

But like anything else, there are limits.

Pitt should keep this in mind.

[Tx4obama]

500. Skinner's other comment to him on the same thread...

Comment #368 - here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734511#post368

Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #241)
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:25 PM

Skinner (59,180 posts)
368. Here's the problem.

The polarizing language about the president makes a good faith discussion on the merits extremely difficult. You are a smart guy, and you knew that echoing the insult that you used in the previous shitstorm would get exactly the response you got. I didn't particularly appreciate the last shitstorm, and I'm not going to get much utility out of this one either. This one thread isn't the end of it -- there are going to be a half a dozen other threads that get started over the next few days to rehash the appropriateness of calling the president names.

Obviously, you received a lot of blowback for your last thread, and you are receiving a lot of blowback for this thread. I am not so naive to think that you or anyone else would actually back down in the face of that kind of resistance -- to do so would feel like admitting weakness. And I know you're not going to back down simply because the administrator of DU expressed his distaste for insulting the president -- here on DU I am The Power, and a good progressive can't be seen to be backing down from Speaking Truth. I get that.

I'm just hoping that maybe next time, when you or anyone else on DU is thinking about starting a thread in which you insult the president, you think about those of us who don't really appreciate it. I'm not telling you what to do. And I'm not trying to score points here. What I'm trying to do is simply to share a piece of information with you: Some of us don't like seeing the president insulted. What you choose to do with that information is entirely up to you.

[Hissyspit]

506. Not seeing him accusing Pitt of using right-wing racist tactics there, either.

[Tx4obama]

516. The OP subject line up above does not call any DUer a racist

It says: "Constantly referring to President Obama as a "used car salesman" is expected of a RW racist"

Which is a true statement regarding RW racists.

[Hissyspit]

585. There's a reason the OP said right-wing racist instead of just right-winger.

I'm not a fool.

[DontTreadOnMe]

512. Mr. Pitt used a hurtful phrase to describe the President.

He should be criticized for those words. But he should also be applauded for his overall statement on the President's speech.

C'mon folks! Stop arguing with each other, we are on the SAME TEAM here!

It's OK to criticize Obama and still be on the side of TRUTH. And it's ok for Obama to be wrong sometimes, because he is ALSO on the side of TRUTH.

This kind of arguing is killing our upcoming chances in the mid-term election. Time to get it together and unite against evil... Republicans!

[Union Scribe]

634. And that was a level-headed and reasonable post

which reached out with understanding and well-meaning advice that I hope Will and everyone else takes to heart.

In short, Skinner's post was everything this thread was not.

[Tx4obama]

495. Skinner's other comment to him...

Comment #368 - here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734511#post368

Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #241)
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:25 PM

Skinner (59,180 posts)
368. Here's the problem.

The polarizing language about the president makes a good faith discussion on the merits extremely difficult. You are a smart guy, and you knew that echoing the insult that you used in the previous shitstorm would get exactly the response you got. I didn't particularly appreciate the last shitstorm, and I'm not going to get much utility out of this one either. This one thread isn't the end of it -- there are going to be a half a dozen other threads that get started over the next few days to rehash the appropriateness of calling the president names.

Obviously, you received a lot of blowback for your last thread, and you are receiving a lot of blowback for this thread. I am not so naive to think that you or anyone else would actually back down in the face of that kind of resistance -- to do so would feel like admitting weakness. And I know you're not going to back down simply because the administrator of DU expressed his distaste for insulting the president -- here on DU I am The Power, and a good progressive can't be seen to be backing down from Speaking Truth. I get that.

I'm just hoping that maybe next time, when you or anyone else on DU is thinking about starting a thread in which you insult the president, you think about those of us who don't really appreciate it. I'm not telling you what to do. And I'm not trying to score points here. What I'm trying to do is simply to share a piece of information with you: Some of us don't like seeing the president insulted. What you choose to do with that information is entirely up to you.

[Solly Mack]

97. In my experience racists use very different language to describe President Obama.

From everything I've read or have heard racists say about President Obama calling him a "used car salesman" hasn't been on the list.

While the phrase isn't flattering - and people might not want to hear/see it being used - that doesn't make it akin to the language used by racists.

I know linking two things that aren't the same is often an attempt to marginalize and discredit. Negative associations can be a very powerful tool of manipulation. As it can conjure up images and ideas of something bad.

Calling Obama a used car salesman is a negative association, for example. The stereotype is that used car salesmen are crooked, fast talkers that will sell you a lemon in a heartbeat.

Linking the phrase "used car salesman" with words a racist would use is also a negative association.

Linking a behavior ("constantly referring to..." is a word use that does suggest that you see it as a behavioral pattern) of Will Pitt (because that is who you are calling out and we may as well be up front about that) to things a racist would say and do is also a negative association with the intention of linking Will Pitt with racists.

An argument can be made about whether or not calling President Obama a used car salesman is appropriate on Democratic Underground without implying - and you are making the implication - that Will Pitt is behaving like a racist.

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. Dial it back. Not everything you disagree with is racist.

I think Will's criticism is unfair, but I see no reason to crank up the rhetoric beyond that.

[ProSense]

116. No, and

"Dial it back. Not everything you disagree with is racist. I think Will's criticism is unfair, but I see no reason to crank up the rhetoric beyond that."

...my point is that it is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[lumberjack_jeff]

126. "Denounced?" Sure, how about "I disagree."

I advised Will to dial it back too.

The only rational OP I've read on the topic is this one.

[ProSense]

137. I made my point. n/t

[Ninga]

160. I agree. To call one of our own a name, or to attach a descriptive negative label to their

persona as a form of debate or disagreement is non-productive.

He is:

Mr. President
The President
Mr. Obama
Barack
PBO
BHO

Nothing more needs to be added when prefacing remarks, concerns, criticism, or disagreement.

What is stunning to me, is in the defense of Mr. Pitt displayed here by those who would tap dance and justify any name calling as a non-starter.

What have we become? Ah. One of them.

[uponit7771]

201. It's "reflexive" lableling, maybe that'll help people understand how KKKons act when they are

... a little frustrated.

[MineralMan]

106. While I find the use of the phrase "used car salesman" in reference to

the Democratic President of the United States reprehensible, and the use of the phrase "piece of shit used car salesman" even more so, I don't see racism in it. I just see gross disrespect. I don't believe that either label should be used on Democratic Underground with reference to President Obama.

DU is not my website, however, so all I can do is express my disgust at such references to the man we all voted for twice to be our President. And I will freely express that disgust.

I still would not use the term racist to describe a person who used such vile labels as "piece of shit used car salesman" in reference to President Obama. They are sufficiently ugly in their own right and should be cause for admonition.

More than that I won't express.

[itsrobert]

117. Kick and REC!

BAN THEM!

[Hissyspit]

131. Really?

Will Pitt is using racist tactics?

You actually take this garbage seriously?

[iandhr]

120. Ding Ding Ding

[Wait Wut]

124. I just noticed something.

ProSense is actually replying to posts in her thread. Even those that criticize her.

[BuelahWitch]

189. The replies rather suck, but yes, she is.

[truebrit71]

202. Because it boosts her post count...not because she has anything legitimate to say...

...or does criticizing Pro$en$e make me a racist too?

[Wait Wut]

216. Right...

...because someone with over 113,000 posts needs to up their post count. And 'nothing legitimate to say'? Wow.

[Bobbie Jo]

294. Right indeed.

That was a solid 9.5 on the petty bullshit scale.

[grasswire]

347. time for DU to start charging for excess bandwidth use. nt

[truebrit71]

407. Um...how do you think she got the post count that high...

....

[Wait Wut]

413. Probably...

...the same way we all do. By posting.

[frylock]

435. hundreds of times per day..

often with cut n paste boilerplate and circular links.

[Ikonoklast]

556. You don't win some sort of prize for having a high post count. It doesn't mean anything.

Cowards that refuse to support their own thesis or criticism post and run.

[freshwest]

624. I'll take 'blue links' and facts to snark anyday of the week. But that's just me. n/t

[Ikonoklast]

638. Actual fact trumps opinions and feelings every time.

It's like the light of the sun, it shines at night whether you think it does or not.

[freshwest]

642. Yes, much like the power of science instead of superstition. Somedays, that's what it seems. nt

[Union Scribe]

635. I'd guess about 40% of those posts

are just a quote from the post she's replying to with this smiley added:

[jeff47]

249. Yep. She doesn't toss a grenade and run. (nt)

[sheshe2]

420. Exactly! nt

[NCTraveler]

142. While it is expected of RW racists, it is not racist in itself.

I think just trying to make the link with respect to Pitt is not fair.

"It should not be acceptable on a site promoting Democrats."

I do think that is fair. For a long time poster such as Pitt I think a little extra room should be given. One of the things I originally like about DU was his excellent insight based off of information he had taken the time to collect with respect to Bush. His ops were excellent. The doubling down about the used car salesman has gone too far for this board and it is not helpful to DU. I would not have minded if he would have critiqued the comment in some other way. It should not be accepted in the manner in which it was done.

[AverageJoe90]

385. Seconded. nt

[byronius]

144. I do not understand his vitriol. It's bizarre.

[lamp_shade]

150. Kick...

[Ninga]

172. the point being,why use ANY PHRASES at ALL (names, titles, remarks, slurs, etc)

other than a persons name????

One can be critical of policy etc, WITHOUT attaching a negative descriptor to the person.

Can 'ya answer that, huh?

[MisterP]

305. unsurprisingly, they actually *hate* it when people call him "Barack Obama"

[Tikki]

153. …let's downgrade Pres. Obama because what I really feel passionate about, I can't talk…..

about here because it is not in the majority and not a Democratic Party policy.

Sometimes this approach is really obvious.


Tikki

[BuelahWitch]

162. I was waiting for this

Took them awhile, and this person is not usually the BOGger who throws the "racist" label around, but it was bound to come out sooner or later.

[truebrit71]

163. Total, complete, and utter BULLSHIT...

"constantly" Will Pitt has done it twice to my knowledge, and how in the twisted world that you live in does that statement refer to race in any way, shape or form...

You are way out of line. Stick to cheerleading and posting endless blue links to your own cheerleading posts...

[Ninga]

175. Why do it at all? Once, twice, who cares, why at all?

To go out of ones way to describe a person by attaching a label is pointed and with purpose. This is quite different than disagreeing, or being angry with policy or opinion.

[truebrit71]

181. Why? Because no-one should be immune from criticism...

...and that is a particularly apt description of the President regarding this, and many other topics...

[bravenak]

262. Name calling is not criticism.

It is name calling, a tactic used by the right wing racists. Like Ted Nugent. He also uses the words 'piece of shit' when referring to the President. Will Pitt is much more intelligent that the Nuge and i expect him to make his points without relying on the RW tactics of Nugent and his ilk like disgusting name calling.

Remember this?http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024074732

The writing in that op was brilliant! Now we just use childish name calling and call it criticism. It is depressing.

[ProSense]

178. No, not "bullshit"

"You are way out of line. Stick to cheerleading and posting endless blue links to your own cheerleading posts..."

...and typical of the mentality that would justify such name calling.

My point is that it is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[truebrit71]

272. So are you sticking with your assertion that Will Pitt is a RW racist?

It maybe a derogatory label, but it is most definitely NOT a racist one and you damn well know it...

"Constantly repeat it". It has been posted twice to my knowledge.

Obama's actions of repeatedly polishing turds more than justifies the label.

So your position is "I'm not saying he's a RW racist, he just ACTS like one"?

Stay classy, ProNonSense...stay classy...

[840high]

253. Oh dear God - those blue links.

[Bobbie Jo]

474. Oh dear God - reading and shit.

[840high]

522. Since I don't bother with

the blue links - I'll take your word for it - Shit.

[Bobbie Jo]

528. Unsurprising, really.

What do you "bother with," exactly?

[840high]

529. I bother with facts not spin - hate

loyalty drama. Good night.

[Bobbie Jo]

530. I can see that.

You're obviously well informed.

[EC]

164. I agree

All this bull about him apologizing for Iraq is just bs...he didn't make excuses for it and what else was he supposed to say? "Oh, yeah, our last President acted just like Putin, but I'm not"? Right.......

[Sarah Ibarruri]

176. I totally agree. nt

[redqueen]

180. What similar insults were/are directed toward Clinton?

Can't remember but there may have been some.

[BuelahWitch]

184. "Slick Willie" for one

Could also be applied to a pos used car salesmen...

[redqueen]

247. That's more of a mildly insulting nickname. Not even in the same ballpark IMO. nt

[JI7]

359. also it was republicans attack on Clinton, so people are justifying attacks on Obama by so called

Dems by bringing up how republicans attacked Clinton . WTFFFFFf???????????

[redqueen]

362. Strange, isn't it?

It's quite stunning, the lengths some are going to in order to defend Pitt.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

182. Given that Republicans sign up on DU, pretend to be Dems, speak out against Obama...

then go discuss on their right wing websites all the sh*t they created, you've got to expect some of this.

Someone posted an excellent article about that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1102&pid=15862

[Hissyspit]

207. I don't understand your point.

Last edited Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)

You are accusing Will Pitt of being a Republican ratfucker?

You do realize that's absurd?

[Voice for Peace]

310. I don't think that was an accusation but honestly, he's helping them with their mission.

[alcibiades_mystery]

186. And Left wing racists

They delight in it.

[Cali_Democrat]

203. Yep....I don't know if you remember the watermelon and chicken threads last month....

I didn't weigh in on those, but some self-proclaimed liberals (who are probably white) said blacks shouldn't be offended when watermelon and chicken is served for lunch celebrating black history month.

There are definitely left wing racists right here on DU. Or they're right wingers posing as left wingers. Either way they're racists.

[JustAnotherGen]

465. I remember those

Don't intend to forget them either. Might even have them saved . . . It showed me the true face of a lot of DU'ers. I see you Mr. Fish Eating former Republican.

[Number23]

533. "I see you Mr. Fish Eating former Republican." Oh girl, we ALL see him.

Those of us with eyes, anyway.

[freshwest]

627. I remember that! *winks* at Number 23. n/t

[freshwest]

625. Speaking of that and I won't post the pic. An OP on terrorizing gays in Russia had guess what?

The gang of people doing it had grabbed a young black emigrant and held him against the wall to force feed him. They were cramming half a watermelon in his face. He was in a state of shock.

While watermelon may or may not be a favorite dessert in Russia, with all the American RWNJs going over there, I'm sure they brought some of our finer ideas with them.



Oh yeah, nothing racist about that stuff. And many google search results with Obama in the subject line that come from conservatives call him a POS.

The apple don't fall from the Old Elm Tree or whatever the hell we've been having to rake uo here at DU for quite some time.

[uponit7771]

188. AMEN!!!

[Gormy Cuss]

194. Constantly deflecting criticism of the administration is expected of a paid shill.

n.b. to jury members:
I didn't call the OP a shill anymore than ProSense called Will Pitt a RW racist.

[truebrit71]

197. I agree 100%

Disgusting that the OP was allowed to stand...

[Renew Deal]

199. The car salesman thing is not "criticism"

It's demagoguery

[truebrit71]

206. Bullshit. It is a valid comparison of a man who said one thing, and then did the opposite..

...

[Renew Deal]

300. We disagree. Now what?

A duel!

[Gormy Cuss]

209. It's hyperbole.

[uponit7771]

204. True, but if you think conservative like reflexive name calling is "criticism" then that's NOT true

[Gormy Cuss]

210. I think that some DUers hold no quarter for criticism of the president

and they go to ridiculous lengths to shout it down.
FWIW, I detest the name calling even when I find some agreement with the underlying sentiment.

[ProSense]

230. Profiles in courage. n/t

[Marr]

355. +1

[DisgustipatedinCA]

489. Lying right wing racist fucks post blue links all the time.

I won't bother looking up right wing racist sites, but they exist, and they have hypertext links embedded, colored blue in most browsers. The poster in question is obviously trying to smear Will Pitt with a racist label, but the poster is trying to be coy and play games. I don't have any use for soulless, mechanized, propagandizing pieces of human garbage. I am, of course, referring to the right wing, like all of us are.

[Renew Deal]

196. I agree that it's not acceptable but...

How is it racist?

[ProSense]

208. It is

"I agree that it's not acceptable but...How is it racist?"

...a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it.

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

[d_legendary1]

224. These are the same people that called Bubba a Rogue Scholar

Does that make them racists to? I agree the name calling has to stop but to turn it into something that is not that I have an issue with. Its like those RW cartoons where a conservative says something dumb like "Why doesn't the president sign the House Bills into Law" and the liberal answers back with "You racist! Why do hate the first black president?" They call that Liberal Logic and it makes us look foolish.

[grasswire]

357. and they called him BUBBA

Was any term ever more evocative and bigoted, and racist?

[d_legendary1]

388. They didn't call him Bubba

SNL did.

[grasswire]

392. so did the VRWC after that...

....and the freepers too.

[840high]

496. If you don;t find it

acceptable - take it up with Skinner. In the meantime stop calling people racist.

[vi5]

198. Are used car salesman stereotypically African American?

I've always been sold used cars by sleazy white dudes.

I must have missed the used car salesman as racial epithet memo.

[awoke_in_2003]

200. It may be immature...

but can we stop saying that everything said opposing the president is racially motivated? When some dumbass likes Rumsfeld compares him to a trained monkey, then yes. But when I think "used car salesman" I think of a white guy with slicked back hair wearing a cheap suit.

[CFLDem]

213. Maybe, maybe not

Constantly referring to President Obama as a "used car salesman" is expected of a RW racist.

What if the reference is used sparingly?

[Rex]

219. You mean like twice?

Yeah everyone and their dog noticed that too.

[CFLDem]

234. Well since 'sparingly' is a measure of frequency

I guess it would depend on the timeframe it was said.

I would say usage of greater than 3 in 10 references to PBO could be construed as somewhat constant.

[Rex]

238. I do understand that it is a tactic of the RWing to repeat a lie over and over.

That irony seems lost on some. I would go with greater than 5 in 10. That way it cannot just be a coincidence.

[CFLDem]

241. True

But 3 does make a pattern.

[Rex]

251. True it does, well if it is a theme he sticks with then I will agree.

Just not to the racist part, I'm sorry but creating things out of whole cloth from rage does not make it so. As we can see in both vanity threads.

Obama is most definitely NOT a used car salesman, neither is Pitt a racist (based on what he said). Now, I've seen some around here say he is no better than Nugent for calling the POTUS the same string of profanities...sadly I cannot disagree with them, since Will really did type those things.

[ProSense]

239. You mean

"What if the reference is used sparingly? "

...like "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment"?

I mean, people were trying to excuse it as such then, and are still trying to justify it.

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

[AgingAmerican]

214. The race card gets played

nt

[sufrommich]

228. I have never seen the term "race card" used by

a liberal ,ever.

[CFLDem]

236. I would recommend getting out more then. nt

[AgingAmerican]

245. Hmm....

...What about here?

...and here?

...and here...

...

...and so on and so forth....nuff said.

[DeSwiss]

225. ....

[840high]

233. Nothing racist.

[TheSarcastinator]

242. another completely dishonest post from Nonsense

In no way shape or form is calling someone a "used car salesman" racist. Is it an insult? You bet. Is it racist? Not one bit.

Your poutrage is transparent and feeble.

[ProSense]

256. Welcome to DU. n/t

[Marr]

368. Pro has a problem with logic, or likes to pretend so, at least.

This is their favorite logical fallacy; they repeat it constantly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

They regularly claim that anyone who agrees with, say, Rand Paul's comments on the issue of domestic spying, is a Libertarian mole. This is the same thing once again. Racists call people names, Pitt called someone a name, therefore, Pitt is a racist.

Interestingly, if you show Prosense an instance where their own position is identical to that of Dick Cheney or John Bolton, they simply stop arguing and start-- yes-- name calling. But not like a racist. Oh no.

[bobduca]

597. +1000

and you will know them by their favorite fallacy, and their favorite emoticon.

[leftstreet]

243. Is there a Jump The Shark contest I don't know about?

This is so unlike you. You don't usually smear DUers

You could have stopped at saying it was a 'rw' reference, but the race thing is truly weird

Oh well, perhaps you're not really ..uh, 'yourself' today

[dawg]

246. I find this post to be deeply offensive.

Not only is it an unfair attempt to slander a DU'er as being a racist, it belittles and cheapens the real world racist insults and slights that people have to deal with every single day.

You should be ashamed of this post.

[ProSense]

265. Nice try, but I stand by the point.

"You should be ashamed of this post."

I would be "ashamed" in trying to justify despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

[dawg]

274. Scream about "name calling" and you might have a point.

Talk about "disrespect of the President" and I might actually agree with you.

But your accusations of racism are unfounded and way over the line.

You should apologize.

[Voice for Peace]

411. not an accusation, more like this:

gratuitous negativity about the president, especially
deeply derogatory name-calling, on a public forum,
is typical of rw racists. ie, stooping way too low.

I think we hope and strive for better here.

It has led to a great deal of time being wasted.
It undermines morale, it is not constructive or uplifting
criticism; it is just negativity, & similar to vomit.

[dawg]

488. I'm disgusted by the OP and anyone who supports it.

not an accusation, more like this:

unwavering support for party leaders and the party line, especially
deeply derogatory implications of racism against those who disagree, on a public forum
is typical of authoritarians, fascists and nazis, ie, stooping way too low.

I think we hope and strive for better here.

It has led to a great deal of time being wasted.
It undermines morale, it is not constructive or uplifting
discussion of the issues; it is just blind acceptance of the party line, & similar to vomit.

[Voice for Peace]

550. Differing points of view don't make one right and the other wrong.

You're making the judgement that some here are
unwavering mindless supporters of the president,
or something close to that;

I am making the judgement that Will's vitriol is not
helpful to the progress he cares about.

In fact I'm sure it is delighting those who work hard
to undermine it.

[dawg]

555. Implying that he's a racist just makes things worse.

That's the thread we're posting on right now, not Will's thread.

[Voice for Peace]

557. I don't believe that was intentionally implied.

Rather it was inferred, assumed to be an intended
insult.

The kind of vitriol some perceive in Will's posts reminds
some of us of RW racist talk.

Many have mentioned Ted Nugent, I guess he's a good
example.

[dawg]

558. Bull.

That was her intent and you know it. Go ahead and make excuses for her. Your side always has to be right you know.

[Voice for Peace]

559. not true, I don't "know it," as you say,

and I'm not on any side, except the side of my own
heart and conscience. Us-vs-them sucks. Personally
I would rather learn something of value than be
so-called 'right.' So your post is mostly completely
wrong.

[dawg]

563. You really want to learn something of value???

Learn this:

Implying that people are racist because they criticize a politician you like only serves to antagonize people. It diminishes the real racism that impacts real people's lives every day. It's just an authoritarian tactic meant to enforce a party line. It's self-defeating, too.

[Voice for Peace]

565. I don't disagree with you about that, I just read the offending OP differently than you

and it did not read to me that racism was implied.

It was mentioned outright -- ie that RW racists tend to use
that tactic on the President, and that's the one Will is
using too, and it goes over like a lead balloon with some
people here.

you can have the last word, I am tired.

[dawg]

567. You're losing.

Go to bed.

[Bobbie Jo]

531. Exactly like this. nt

[AgingAmerican]

271. But...

...it also distracts from the content of the op, which some people will go to any length to avoid discussing.

[Voice for Peace]

561. Do you think it is fair to slander the President as being a liar,

ie "used car salesman," a piece of excrement, or whatever?

[dawg]

564. Does he sometimes say one thing and then do another?

Well, does he?

He's a politician. There! I just called him something *worse* than a piece-of-shit used car salesman. I guess I must be a racist too.

[dawg]

566. For crying out loud, we called Bush a chimp.

n/t

[stonecutter357]

252. K&R

[fleabiscuit]

254. Would Joseph McCarthy’s rhetoric been considered RW racist?

Just wondering.

Now where am I…

[WilliamPitt]

257. Did you just call me a right-wing racist?

How are your friends on FreeRepublic faring these days?

Irony is always awesome.



Fail.

[TheSarcastinator]

263. understanding irony requires a certain level of self awareness

I don't think the poster is capable of such a thing.

[ProSense]

267. Here's

my point: It is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Though, those attempts to justify the name calling were also ignored, and it continues.

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

[Marr]

377. You mean like, "reactionary screamer" or "emoprog"?

Would you say that the people who call names like that are using the tactics of right wing racists, or is the association only relevant when the name-caller happens to be someone you don't like?

[laundry_queen]

586. So true and spot on. Which is why I doubt you'll ever see a response from that poster. nt

[JTFrog]

286. No.

But speaking of right-wing racists and free republic:

And now I have a story that is HUUUUUGE. Like earthquake huge. In fact, it might even make the news services. So what is it? It is that WILLIAM RIVERS PITT, the perpetrator of the Karl Rove Indictment Fraud and many other foibles, has now turned violently against Obamacare in a big way. It's going to be mighty tough for Harry Reid to write off Will as a "rightwing" shill.

-------------------

Perhaps Pitt needs to get a permit slip from an ObamaCare Death Panel for proper coverage. Don't say you weren't warned in advance, Will. Much as it might cause you more grief...Sarah Palin was RIGHT!

---------------------------

Im glad this story is getting out there ...Now Drudge needs to link to it and play it up

Maybe if you add "piece of shit" to your newest OP you'd get three or four times the attention, err recs, considering the audience you've been playing to lately.

[Renew Deal]

301. This is the point

[TexasTowelie]

339. The jury says:

On Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:22 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Did you just call me a right-wing racist?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4736090

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Looks like calling the OP a freeper to me. Insulting personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:38 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Since the OP is a call out and personal attack, I'm inclined to look the other way on this. The OP should have been deleted long ago.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: However, the OP calls WP a RW racist, and that has survived a jury, so retorting that ProSense has friends on FR is within bounds. It would be better if both sides toned it down, though by NOT STARTING MORE THREADS ABOUT THIS.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I voted for "leave it alone" because it was in response to a provocative OP. Had it been an original post, instead of a return-in-kind, I probably would have voted to hide. The name-calling stuff advances no arguments here, nor anyone's interests.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If the jury let the OP survive with an insulting, thinly-veiled personal attack, then I don't see how this response is any worse. I don't like either remark, but let them discuss the issue without hiding either opinion.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: IMO, the poster violates community standards and should be booted off the site. Therefore every single post of his is subject to hiding.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[WilliamPitt]

346. #6 is my favorite.

[Rex]

414. I get this feeling a certain group of people don't want you here.

Some kind of gut feeling.

[frylock]

436. no shit..

just wow. be cool, dood.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

654. Two points:

1) She did NOT call you a racist. She said you repeatedly used the same specific language popular among right wing racists.

2) Here are the graphics the RW makes to support the meme you used. It is a long standing meme among them:



















(Thanks to Drunken_Irishman for finding these)

[840high]

259. Unrec - total BS.

[mehrrh]

260. used car salesman

I agree.
The post referred to is not appropriate here.

[Heidi]

264. Your false racism accusation, and WP's doubling down on an inflammatory term BOTH make DU suck. (nt)

[ProSense]

268. The first

"Your false racism accusation, and WP's doubling down on an inflammatory term BOTH make DU suck."

...part is an inaccurate reading of my point, which is that it's a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it.

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

Obviously, I agree with the second part of your point.

[Heidi]

275. OBVIOUSLY you agree with the second part of my point.

Cut this sh!t out, please. You're not helping anyone and I'm not convinced that helping anyone is your intent. In fact, at this point, you come off like a mocking troll. You and WP both need to stop with the attention mongering.

Do you seriously think for one moment that President Obama would advocate you implying that a long-time progressive like WP is a racist? President Obama may well be playing 12th-dimension chess, but you clearly are not.

[ProSense]

285. Please, I will express my opinion as I see fit.

"You and WP both need to stop with the attention mongering."

Well, if you think that's what the poster is doing, that's on you. It doesn't change the fact that it's despicable name calling that doesn't belong on DU. Do you think people should simply look the other way?

[Heidi]

311. If you give two sh!t about the DU community as anything but a platform for your ego,

you'll cut it out. Please do express your opinion as you see fit, ProSense. The obvious becomes increasingly apparent.

[ProSense]

312. Oh, please.

"If you give two sh!t about the DU community as anything but a platform for your ego"

...if you gave "two sh!t about the DU community," you wouldn't be so outraged by anyone denouncing despicable name calling.

I mean, all of a sudden some people are outraged that name calling that a lot of DUers find offensive is being labeled offensive.

[Heidi]

321. Do you think the president would approve of your OP? (nt)

[ProSense]

329. Fortunately, I don't need his approval to denounce despicable name calling. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

320. Damn right....

Do not back down from this message one inch.

You spoke the truth, and it's about damn time someone did. The dog whistlers and hate whisperers have been getting louder by the year.

Just never imagined I would watch it here.

[redqueen]

326. +1,000,000,000,000

I saw it coming years ago. Hell, in the primaries it was obvious. Suddenly rightwing lies and spin from the M$M were posted here with glee. It was not the least bit subtle.

[Hissyspit]

333. You will express your opinion as you see fit?

Seriously?

[truebrit71]

334. Sez the person accusing another of racism...

Accusing people of racism is a tactic used by bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist, echo-chamber imbeciles, not that I'm saying you are a bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist imbecile, but you do say alot of stuff that other bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist, echo-chamber imbeciles would say...

[ProSense]

336. Of course

"Accusing people of racism is a tactic used by bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist, echo-chamber imbeciles, not that I'm saying you are a bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist imbecile, but you do say alot of stuff that other bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist, echo-chamber imbeciles would say..."

...you're not "saying" that because clearly the point went right over your head.

[truebrit71]

338. Funny thing though...

...you say things that a bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist, echo-chamber imbecile would say all the time even though I'm not suggesting for a second that you are in fact a bullshit artist, 3rd way centrist, echo-chamber imbecile...

[Renew Deal]

303. It weakens an otherwise legitimate argument

There is no reason to go there, especially considering it's not true.

[chrisa]

266. That's absolute nonsense. How is the term "car salesman" racist?

The term is used to describe an untrustworthy person.

[fleabiscuit]

278. Oh “used car salesman” is much more than that.

It’s about making the deal, selling it. It’s a caution to not put more into exactly what is said, to be informed with the facts as best you can. To know about what’s NOT being said, and not put more into it.

[berni_mccoy]

270. It's also expected of a ratfucker...

especially when they say piece of shit used car salesmen.

[Iliyah]

280. K & R

RW regurgitated bullshit repeated on the DU. I come here for some sane positivity but alas, the hatred runs deep with some DUers.

[n2doc]

281. Crying "Racist" over and over whenever the president is criticized is the mark of a weak supporter

It's not racist. I am unaware of any, and I mean ANY, association of "used car salesman" with a specific race. Try googing "Used Car Salesman images". You get variations on this:





Not any different that calling someone a Nazi if they disagree or oppose any aspect of Israel policy.

Maybe you should start a site that only allows for positive comments about the Icon. You would be much happier. Content, even.

[ProSense]

288. He was not being "criticized." It's name calling

"Crying "Racist" over and over whenever the president is criticized is the mark of a weak supporter"

Do you think the mark of a strong critic is despicable name calling?

I was not "crying 'racist.'"

My point is that it is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

The label and constant use of it is expected of RW racists.

[n2doc]

298. I personally don't agree with the name calling

I wish he would cut it out. It undermines the content of what he is posting. But I would not call it racist. Unless you know Will personally and have heard him use explicitly racist terms or dog whistles, you don't know either.

Is he a 'hater'? perhaps.

[ProSense]

307. "I wish he would cut it out. It undermines the content of what he is posting."

" But I would not call it racist. Unless you know Will personally and have heard him use explicitly racist terms or dog whistles, you don't know either."

...again, the point was the tactic, which is despicable.

[leftstreet]

291. +1

[Rex]

309. We already have that here it is a group called the BOG.

They run into flak in GD, because it is not an echo chamber.

GD is where DU superstars come to battle while their fans cheer them on!

[ecstatic]

293. [phone]. nt

[Cal Carpenter]

297. Drinking water is expected of a RW racist

Do you drink water, ProSense?

I mean, if we're gonna stretch...

[stonecutter357]

302. K&R

[Vattel]

314. It is a little insulting to used car salesmen.

[egduj]

316. Who's being insulted with this reference?

[lamp_shade]

318. Bravo, ProSense...

[Hissyspit]

330. Why?

It's a shitty hypocritical thing to do even if you don't agree with Pitt or his tactics.

[Jack Rabbit]

319. Thirty years ago, I referred to President Reagan with the exact same epithet

Last edited Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

"Snake oil salesman" was an often-used variant.

So, what does that make me? It can't make me a racist, since my ancestors and Mr. Reagan's came from pretty much the same places: north of the Alps and west of the Rhine, to include the British isles.

President Obama is not above criticism. I don't like the trade deals he's pushing one bit, I don't like NSA spying, I don't like drone strikes, I don't like the kid glove treatment his justice department has given to Wall Street criminals and I think his administration has been in some ways as opaque as his predecessor's, not what would be expected of one who campaigned on a platform of transparency and accountability.

I believe that the above is a fair statement, not at all like something out of the mouth of Darrell Issa, a partisan hack, or Steve King, a partisan hack who also really is a racist. Unlike some Tea Party congressman who can't speak for sixty seconds without impugning the President's religion, birth place, patriotism or without bringing up a manufactured scandal, I try to keep the criticism fair and free of personal references to Mr. Obama. Calling him a "used car salesman" (I didn't see that post and don't have any idea who wrote it) is pushing it and is something that really should be toned down. However, it isn't necessarily racist.

In addition to Democrats, this website also promotes democratic (with a small d) values. To that end, what should be unacceptable on this website is an attempt to close down open discussion with nonsense like a blanket charge of racism against those with an opposing point of view.

Criticism of the President's actions should be in context and directed at the specific policy, program or proposal. One should explain what is wrong with the what the President is doing, not with the President himself.
[font color="red" size="1"]
ON EDIT:
[/font]
I have found the post, that being an OP from Will Pitt. Few DUers would ever suspect Will of being a racist. I have been on DU almost as long as Will, since 2001, so I speak with some authority. Perhaps ProSense knows something about Will that I don't, but I think this is nonsense.

This context of the post is a ruling Mr. and Mrs. Pitt (who suffers MS) got from their ACA provider rejecting coverage for medication under the ACA. I think I would be upset over that, too, and, furthermore, that I and most others would not be at all charitable toward those we hold responsible, rightly or wrongly, under similar circumstances. I suspect Will of being a grieved husband wondering what to do next, but not of being a racist. If the Pitts have no recourse, then I think we can all agree that this is something about the ACA that needs fixed. Given that, it would seem that the notion that Will is a racist who shouldn't be posting at DU is something more to be expected of a rank demagogue pushing an ideological agenda than a cool, rational poster at DU. It's just nonsense.

[Bluenorthwest]

367. In 1960 the Democrats made a famous poster with Nixon's face and the words 'Would you

buy a used car from this man'. Big winner for Kennedy. In 1972, National Lampoon played with that poster with a collection of political humor titled 'Would You Buy A Used War From This Man' with Nixon's face on the cover.
It's a famous political theme for a reason, in Gallup's yearly poll of most trusted professions in America, politicians always take the least trusted spot, followed by car dealers.

[Jack Rabbit]

372. Yes, I know all about Dick Tuck

[laundry_queen]

592. Thoughtful post.

It's a shame it's not getting more replies. Probably because it's a thoughtful post. Anyway, I agree with what you wrote. It's a shame people are ignoring the context of the original post - on purpose I suppose. Ironic that a place like DU that used to freak out over lack of context in the mainstream media during the Bush years, is now using the same tactic to denigrate someone on the left. Shameful.

[Whisp]

322. another Badtime for Gonzo - looks like he's not getting the recs he is after.

and people are starting to realize just what sort of person this is.

[Hissyspit]

344. What sort of person is he?

Go on, tell me.

I've been reading his posts and writings for over a decade now. Tell me what you've figured out about him.

Or maybe the guy who engaged in getting the truth out about the Iraq War is just pissed off that the guy who he helped get elected is engaging in unnecessary revisionism about the war (a tactic that might be expected of the right-wing, by the way.)

You know what's much more influential and important than some meta-masturbatory concern for popularity on a website?: What the President of the United States said.

[Rex]

381. I get it now! It is a rec thingy!

When WP gets 200 recs...it drives some to drink! SO if they get 201 recs...they win! This is only a game for some, sadly.

[intheflow]

335. I don't think the term "used car saleman" is racist.

Please cite a single cultural reference in which a person of color is stereotyped as a used car salesman.

Monkey = racist
Watermelon-eater = racist
+ millions more. And a search of google images confirms these as racist stereotypes.

Meanwhile, a google image search of Used Car Salesman brings up hundreds of images of sketchy white men.
https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=925&q=used+car+salesman&oq=used+car+sa&gs_l=img.3.0.0l10.2069.3410.0.4546.11.10.0.1.1.0.66.395.10.10.0....0...1ac.1.38.img..0.11.390.Wz-ZL1PO4PE

Is it a derogatory term? Yes.
Is it racist? No.

[ProSense]

343. Gee, thanks for making those distinctions.

I'll tell you what I told him. My point: It is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Though, those attempts to justify the name calling were also ignored, and it continues.

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

I mean, all of a sudden some people are outraged that name calling that a lot of DUers find offensive is being labeled offensive.

[Hissyspit]

352. And there's no justification for bringing racism into this.

Period.

[ProSense]

374. There is no justification for despicable and gratuitous name calling.

I made my point: It's what one would expect of RW racists.

[intheflow]

453. Look.

You would have gotten shit from DUers if you just said it sounded like a RW attack because Will Pitt is Will Pitt. I, personally, wouldn't have even weighed in on this thread if you did that, because, whatever. You're entitled to your opinion about Will. But you opened yourself up to a whole new level of criticism when you added the racist bit. All I said was "used car salesman" is derogatory and stereotypically white, but not a racial slur. By slinging "racist" YOU are engaging in "despicable and gratuitous name calling" and making DU suck.

BTW, both of these threads are perfect examples of why I wish we'd bring back the unrec button.

[ProSense]

456. Well,

Look.

You would have gotten shit from DUers if you just said it sounded like a RW attack because Will Pitt is Will Pitt. I, personally, wouldn't have even weighed in on this thread if you did that, because, whatever. You're entitled to your opinion about Will. But you opened yourself up to a whole new level of criticism when you added the racist bit. All I said was "used car salesman" is derogatory and stereotypically white, and not a racial slur. By slinging "racist" YOU are engaging in "despicable and gratuitous name calling" and making DU suck.

BTW, both of these threads are perfect examples of why I wish we'd bring back the unrec button.

...I'm not going to concede a point I didn't make. I stated that the tactic of repeating a despicable label in a gratuitous way is expected of a RW racist.

No amount of conflating my point with a distortion of it changes the nature of the name calling or the fact such tactics don't belong on DU.

[intheflow]

459. But why add the "racist" part?

Wouldn't it have been damning enough just to call it a RW attack? Why did you have to kick it up the extra notch just to be inflammatory?

[ProSense]

461. Because it made my point.

Such repeated and derogatory name calling is expected of a RW racist.

"Why did you have to kick it up the extra notch just to be inflammatory? "

Again, it's interesting to see the outrage from some when name calling that a lot of DUers find offensive is being labeled offensive.

[intheflow]

671. That's a lovely philosophy.

"I abhor that behavior so I will engage in that behavior."

Way to keep it classy, ProSense.

[FSogol]

340. K&R. n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

341. Oh, the irony! Criticizing a personal attack by making a personal attack

Just another dog-eared page from the well-worn playbook of the Distractivists.

Anything to avoid the actual issues.

I suggest that we all sign loyalty oaths. In blood.

In the meantime, here's a convenient set of guidelines

- If you criticize the president, you are a racist
- If you criticize Hillary Clinton, you are a misogynist
- If you criticize Israeli policy on the West Bank, you are anti-Semitic
- If you criticized the illegal Iraq invasion, you were a Saddam supporter
- If you criticized the hypocrisy of the U.S. position on Crimea, you are Pooty Poot's best bud

On the other hand, if you want to criticize Edward Snowden or Glenn Greenwald, feel free. To do so is to engage in a righteous cause. That cause is distraction. Anything to shift the focus away from uncomfortable truths.

I for one am nostalgic for unrec.

[ProSense]

354. You forgot: If you criticize despicable name calling, you're making a "personal attack."

I suppose DUers who find this RW-style attack should simply look the other way so that the place can devolve.

[dionysus]

350. I don't think Will is racist, he's just desperately seeking the relevancy he had here during the *

years. and doing a pretty good job of it, looks like... in a rather low brow fashion.

[freshwest]

622. Like the Woodward fiasco, trying to regain his Watergate fame. Everyone's gotta make a living:

Bob Woodward’s Anti-Obama Bias

by Noam Scheiber

THE MOST VIVID scene in Bob Woodward’s new book has almost nothing to do with his central narrative, but reveals a lot about the narrator. The scene takes place in February of 2009, as Congress is laboring to ward off an economic collapse. Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic speaker, is hunkered down in her office with Harry Reid, her Senate counterpart, to negotiate a stimulus bill that can pass both chambers. This is no easy task. The bill must be modest enough to survive a Republican filibuster, but ambitious enough to satisfy Pelosi’s liberal caucus. But, then, these are veteran legislators—born deal-makers at that. They get to work with all the seriousness you’d expect.

At which point the president calls in via speaker phone and starts droning on about “unity of action” and “unity of purpose” (Woodward’s paraphrasing). It’s the kind of blather that can wow a stadium full of college students but means nothing in the power corridors of Washington. Pelosi and Reid thank the president coldly, and yet he doesn’t take the hint. Finally, Pelosi reaches over and hits the mute button. “They could hear Obama, but now he couldn’t hear them,” Woodward writes. “The president continued speaking, his disembodied voice filling the room, and the two leaders got back to the hard numbers.”

This is riveting stuff. Three weeks into his term, and the top Democrats in Congress had already written off Obama as a self-important windbag! Not surprisingly, Pelosi has denied the episode, prompting Woodward to release a transcript from a source in the room. But setting aside whether the scene is literally true—and I’d put my money on Woodward—the real question relates to its implication: Does it mean what Woodward insinuates? Was Obama a bystander while Pelosi and Reid pulled the country back from the abyss?

Not even close. In fact, the stimulus bill was heavily shaped by the White House. If anything, Pelosi was the bystander in the endgame. The final contours of the stimulus package were hashed out among a handful of Senate moderates with two of the president’s top advisers—Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and Budget Director Peter Orszag—helping to broker the negotiations. Pelosi felt so betrayed when she heard about their deal that she unloaded on a top White House official. (Woodward doesn’t provide enough detail to say for sure, but I suspect the meeting he’s referring to took place over the next few days, when Reid and the White House smoothed things over by tweaking some numbers.)

So it goes with The Price of Politics. Critics have complained about the tediousness of this latest Woodward volume, which focuses mostly on the debt-ceiling negotiations between the White House and Republicans during the summer of 2011. The reviews in The New York Times and The Washington Post point out that the ground has been tilled by a succession of other writers, most exhaustively by Matt Bai of The New York Times. But I didn’t find Woodward’s book unusually tedious. In fact, I learned a lot from it. What I found it to be was remarkably slanted...

http://www.tnr.com/book/review/bob-woodward-price-of-politics#

to n2doc

Oct 11, 2012

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101644392

[Hell Hath No Fury]

353. "RW racist" ???

Good lord, some people are losing their shit here. I can hardly wait for a GOPer to be in office so it's once again OK for me to trash talk spying/torture/crappy trade deals/GOP health insurance scams/environmental rape/lack of corporate malfeasance prosecution.

[Renew Deal]

361. lol

[ProSense]

365. "I can hardly wait for a GOPer to be in office so it's once again OK..."

Does DU change from being a place where Democrats expect to find a haven from despicable and gratuitous name calling if you get your wish?

[BlackAndBeyond]

396. Let's be fair

Let's be fair, there was a lot of gratuitous name-calling when Bush was in office.

[Liberal Veteran]

356. I don't see why people are upset at you, ProSense. It's just criticism.

Isn't that what the "anti-Obama" clique likes to say whenever anyone calls them on their bullshit?

Carry on!

[truebrit71]

375. So if you criticise the President you are "anti-Obama" is that it?

Regardless of alleged name-calling, we cannot criticize the President at all, is that the new standard?

[Liberal Veteran]

386. Here's the thing.

I know the difference between objective criticism, spinning anything into criticism, and just flat out provocative name-calling.

You could say this was my sardonic way of saying that a lot of the folks who are taking umbrage at the OP's language bartered their justification for doing so when they gave a pass to it with other posters who happened to agree with them.

I have nothing against criticism, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking name-calling and cheap insults are a substitute for civil discussion. And if a person can't do that, they shouldn't pretend to be Miss Manners when someone turns the tables on them and uses the same kind of tactics.

[truebrit71]

389. All of that aside...does criticising the President make one "anti-Obama"..?

Because that certainly seems to be the standard around here....and I never, in my wildest dreams, thought that DU would turn into nothing more than a glorified echo-chamber...

[Liberal Veteran]

398. I neither expressed nor implied that.

That is not to say I don't recognize when certain individuals seem to have nothing good to say about the president no matter the topic and it would be dishonest to say there aren't some here who really dislike him. There are.

If you took that mean, "any criticism of Obama = hater", I am not certain how one would infer that, since I made no statement to that effect.

[randome]

391. .

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Iliyah]

382. Yep

and thanks for the thread ProSense!

[valerief]

371. Correct, because fanzines are about the celebrity, not the issues. nt

[Vashta Nerada]

373. How does that make someone a racist?

Used car salesmen lie.

It is an apt description of someone who lies.

[SidDithers]

379. DU rec...

This town needs an enema.

Sid

[Whisp]

383. Will Full Ignorance. Can't do much about it if the sick is there. n/t

[AverageJoe90]

384. While I agree that WP went too far.....I kinda doubt that was actually "racist", per se.

And yes, I do realize the full quote was "piece of shit used car salesman". And yes, I full well realize, also, that the Teabaggers are all too fond of using dog whistles. But, to be truthful, this isn't so much a case of racism, but, rather, it was a hard-core overreaction to perceived failures. Which was uncalled for. But you'd be rather hard-pressed to find any prejudice in there, though, open or covert.

[ProSense]

390. I'll

"While I agree that WP went too far.....I kinda doubt that was actually "racist", per se."

...repeat my point, again: It is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It is a tactic that cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Though, those attempts to justify the name calling were also ignored, and it continues.

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

[AverageJoe90]

395. Well, okay. I still think the "racist" part should have been omitted, TBH.

Your point kinda sorta got muddled with that. BTW, just so you understand where I'm coming from:

"
Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU. "

I definitely agree with you on that.

[truebrit71]

399. And you have time and again failed to say how calling someone a used car salesman is racist...

And you fail to grasp the irony that equating criticism of the President to RW Racism actually validates the RW talking point that Democrats always scream racism whenever anyone criticizes the President..

YOU are the one playing that RW Racist game, not Will Pitt, but you refuse to see that, because to do so would mean you'd have to admit you were WRONG...and you can't have that...can you...

[ProSense]

400. It's not me

"And you fail to grasp the irony that equating criticism of the President to RW Racism actually validates the RW talking point that Democrats always scream racism whenever anyone criticizes the President.. "

It's you who "fail to grasp" that despicable name calling isn't "criticism."

[truebrit71]

401. Which part of "used car salesman" is racist?

Don't worry. I'll wait.

[ProSense]

402. I can't help with reading comprehension. n/t

[truebrit71]

408. No but you sure can dodge a straight-forward question though...

...not that that's a surprise or anything...

You said "Used car salesman is something a RW racist would say"....1) I have NEVER heard a RW racist say that about Obama...I've heard a metric shit-ton worse, but never that phrase..and 2) what about that phrase is racist? (I.e. why would a RW racist use that phrase - hint - most RW racist use words that have racist undertones - that's why they say them...you know, because they're racist) So...again...which part of that phrase is racist...??

I'll wait...

[ProSense]

409. No,

You said "Used car salesman is something a RW racist would say"....

...I did not, and your failing to grasp my point is on you.

[truebrit71]

444. Umm...yeah...you kinda did...

...so please feel free to explain how that phrase is racist....or you can just keep dodging...

[ProSense]

446. "you kinda did..."

No, I definitely didn't.

[truebrit71]

475. Yeah, ya definitely did...

...and everyone that read your disgusting flamebait OP knows it too...

[d_legendary1]

403. You mean like the term Liberal?

A term used by the RW pigeon hole everyone from gays to pedoophiles under the same umbrella? Now I understand.

[ProSense]

404. Welcome to DU. n/t

[fleabiscuit]

415. As a relatively new peep here I would not feel correct by not saying this.

I find your holier than thou slant suspicious. It reminds me of the mean pinching little brat that would occasionaly occupy the playgrounds. In an instant he would call out for the teacher or mommy crying out with a pointing finger. I find it suspicious that the pointing finger has drawn out socks.

But maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm a freeper.

[ProSense]

416. That word salad should be embarrassing

"relatively new peep" or not.

Still, welcome to DU.

[sheshe2]

421. Kick!

[tk2kewl]

422. has it really been "constantly"? seems like one post

[Tx4obama]

438. So far 'at least' two...

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

and

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734511

Could be more ... I haven't looked yet.

[frylock]

423. everything is racist!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!12

[rhett o rick]

429. Looks like another of the many, many divisive threads that seem to be coordinated

by the Group. And you justify it because someone else did it. Good Grief.

[Blaukraut]

434. Nah. You give credit for adult sentiment where it's not evident

The name calling reminds me of a toddler who has discovered that repeating a bad word he's heard gets attention from grown ups.

[ProSense]

449. You're probably right. n/t

[DrDan]

451. like "hater"?

[Skip Intro]

443. Exactly how is it racist? n/t

[AAO]

447. I must have missed it, but it is lower than calling him lawyer - which he actually is!

[truedelphi]

448. I am such a

Racist that in my dreams, this man is the primary occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania:


http://tinyurl.com/oymgk27

[Donald Ian Rankin]

450. As is eating breakfast. It doesn't mean that doing so is evidence someone is RW or racist.

It may be *expected* of racists, but it's not *specific* to them. So the OP is both stupid and contemptible, I'm afraid.

[ProSense]

454. That comment makes zero sense. n/t

[laundry_queen]

593. Oh, I think it does.

Probably easier for you to pretend it doesn't though.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

631. Let me spell it out for you.

People who are right wing and/or racists will sometimes compare the president to a used car salesman.
People who are neither right wing and/or racists will sometimes compare the president to a used car salesman.

You are trying to mislead people into thinking that someone is right wing and/or a racist, by pointing out (technically correctly)that they are doing something that rightwingers and racists sometimes do, and hoping that no-one notices that people who are not right wing or racist sometimes do it too.

[MannyGoldstein]

452. I'm not thrilled with the epithet... but it sure as Hell ain't racist OR right wing. nt

[MADem]

455. That kind of whining is childish, disruptive, and it really makes "supposed to be fun" DU SUCK!!!

It is pisspoor, childish, nasty and shit-stirring behavior to continually bash and trash POTUS.

Constantly.

It's a ToS violation, too, IMO.

What sort of people do that kind of thing, I wonder...?

Aside from these types.....

[Skip Intro]

457. Or right wing? How is it racist or right wing?

And is this really occurring constantly?

Please, explain.

[Vashta Nerada]

458. From the looks of this thread and the 3984759347534 others,

a critique of the president is not allowed.

Got it.

Oh, and it's also racist to critique said president.

[ProSense]

464. "Oh, and it's also racist to critique said president. "

A "critique" isn't "racist," and despicable name calling isn't a "critique."

[Vashta Nerada]

470. You're the one stating it's racist to criticize Obama.

Not me.

[ProSense]

471. I said no such thing. n/t

[Vashta Nerada]

472. Look at you OP.

This very thread.

[ProSense]

473. You "look" at it, and try to grasp the point, which has nothing to do calling out a "critique." n/t

[Vashta Nerada]

476. You implied anyone who calls Obama "a used car salesman"

is like a RW racist.

[ProSense]

480. What does that have to do with a "critique"?

"You implied anyone who calls Obama 'a used car salesman' is like a RW racist."

As I said to him in this thread, my point ia that is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It is a tactic that cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Though, those attempts to justify the name calling were also ignored, and it continues.

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

I mean, all of a sudden some people are outraged that name calling that a lot of DUers find offensive is being labeled offensive.

[Vashta Nerada]

485. Are you new to politics?

Haven't you ever heard of someone calling a politician a "used car salesman"?

As far as I'm concerned, every politician is a used car salesman. The only difference among them is at what lengths they'll go to lie to you.

[Fearless]

602. We have a winner!

[Gothmog]

460. I found the language in that post to be inappropriate

Our friends on other boards are laughing at the conflict on DU due to this language

[Ikonoklast]

477. This board is getting ratfucked, and the owners are allowing it to happen.

It is also spread far and wide on the web now, DU is anti-Obama.


The mid-terms get ratfucked here by the same anti-Democrat crowd who want to see it all crash and burn..

[MrMickeysMom]

486. Go sell out somebody else...

Democrats have said long before 2014 that 20 years ago, Obama would have been seen as quite conservative. 8 years ago, Obama was seen as ushering in the change we needed.

But, because views expressed who have to seen needed change say anything at all, this is rat fucking the party. Get someone else to believe that horse shit.

[Ikonoklast]

490. Look around the web. Cons are having a field day with the ratfucking of Democrats here.

Ignore it if you want, make excuses if you want, but the results, even if unintended are the same.

[MrMickeysMom]

498. Cons routinely have a field day with Democrats and hate DU...

Why? Because we are supposed to make room for differing opinion. We aren't supposed to when Freepers (and, who are Republicans, lately?) claim we fuck each other.

Recent commentary by the president doesn't manufacture faux outrage over something that is supposed to have been cooked up by a bunch of phony Democrats. I think some here have forgotten what the issues in party platform have been and what it will take to bring it back.

We don't get to the good… the BEST debate by denying it.

[Ikonoklast]

502. "We don't get to the good… the BEST debate by denying it."

We also don't get there by half-informed ranting and childish name-calling like the type recently employed, either.

The type of behavior so many seem to support, is detrimental to *all* of us.

[MrMickeysMom]

517. That simply is wrong...

The commentary was not "half-informed". It does not fall under the category of "childish name-calling". I'm not sure what evidence you're relying on, but I read it here just like you did.

The vitriol is detrimental to all of us, if anything.

[Ikonoklast]

534. I was referring back to the original rant that started all this nonsense.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

OP was wrong then, and continues to be wrong.

[MrMickeysMom]

544. I'm like many on the message...

I agreed with his message, even if wouldn't say to Obama, "fuck you, you used car salesman", but even if I did, and I was pissed as hell, just as I was with Clinton (reason I supported Obama in 08 over HRC) so what about the rant?

I'm as pissed as many should be on the message as related to the Iraq war. The political system is corrupt, poisoned and to get behind whatever message, just "because it was supported by a Democrat" is a lie in itself. We let justice in this country slip out of our grip. We have tried the change the system from within.

What's wrong is to loose the opportunity to move the rant to the core of the basis of the rant.

So, we need Democrats… nay, NEW Democrats to join the party, or shall I say to fortify the party that is being fractured by the system that continues tell each side it's reason to keep hanging in there with the lies and to lie more…

The players try to be leaders, but in trying to soothe the rustling of those left damaged by war and unemployment, they cannot smooth over the message to see what good our part has been to remember that it had a good ending, this war of aggression that gave us oil for blood, left birth defects by depleted uranium and white phosphorus.

[Ikonoklast]

552. Obama ended the war in Iraq.

He didn't start it, nor did he ever support it. President Obama ended that war.


Just a little bit of credit where it is due.

[MrMickeysMom]

573. Of course he didn't start it

I give Obama credit for more than his graduated removal of troops. His liberal policies for the gay community is an example. Civil rights for the rest of us, drone program, reversing military commissions act, not so good.

The message that mollifies to the international community, I particularly don't give him credit for. Like someone else here said, this was the opportunity to point out how both Bush was wrong while contrasting Putin.

But, here again, we drift away from the central reason so many in our party are detached and distrusting. We have fewer civil rights now and are in full swing with corporatism. I continue to fight it from the state to the local level. We cannot get around who owns us (US) by our civil freedoms, and voices are being stamped out every day.

I won't even get into how fracking is plowing through and how we are dismissed. Our state general assemblies are corporate owned. Main Street is calling, but Wall Street is being heard and Citizen's United has ruled the day. Big Pharmaceutical and Wall Street are given a price of doing business with each law they break and life they toss away.

We are owned. We are being told to shut the fuck up about it, and I won't fucking stand for it, even if I'm placated by our president, I won't stand for it. The only other thing to do is … what the people always wanted anyway. Get our jobs back let the labor movement bargain in fair practice, present a level playing field for each state to develop wind, solar, geothermal and other sustainable industry, and give us single payer health care so we can start saving money giving health care.

These are the thing we must do now, not eventually.

[lostincalifornia]

491. Actually it is the first jury that allowed the "FU Obama, from the bottom of my heart" to go through

that caused all this to get out of control

However, DU is NOT anti-Obama. The majority at DU support the President. Keep in mind that rational criticism of the President on some issues, does not equate to not supporting the President

[Ikonoklast]

497. This board went past "rational criticism" long ago. It's well into ranting lunacy now.

There are no longer any reasoned policy discussions now, as soon as one is attempted they are deliberately derailed by those whose only posts here are to attack anyone with a "D" after their name.

[lostincalifornia]

518. Everything I have seen, including adhoc polls indicate the vast majority on DU support Obama

[Ikonoklast]

525. Those that don't support him also, for the most part, do not participate in those very polls.

Why call yourself out?

[lostincalifornia]

576. Pretty clear to me who they are, even without participating in a poll

[Rex]

574. Too late.

It will be a meta shit storm until the team favorites calm down. The fact that we are liberal minded people that support the POTUS, is irrelevant to these...ahem...feuds.

Hopefully some objectivity will come back to GD. I wonder where the hosts are on all this. I refuse to blame the admins, they really shouldn't be forced to get into this meta crap imo. This doesn't have to stay out of control, we have hosts for this.

[BklnDem75]

493. K&R

When I saw that original quote, Ted Nugent came to mind.

[Cha]

499. It's the Cry of a Divider with an agenda that reeks of

hate.

[CreekDog]

503. I am against calling the president a "used car salesman", however...

I think trying to justify the Iraq War, a war he did not start and has not in the past justified or defended, was far more destructive than having one of his liberal supporters harshly criticize him for it.

What Will Pitt says is really so much less important than the Obama remarks that Pitt was reacting to.

While I find the bad things said about Obama to be troubling, in this instance, I'm much more troubled by what Obama said than the bad things sad about him that followed.

[Tx4obama]

520. Started when he called Pres Obama 'piece of shit used car salesman' regarding Affordable Care Act

What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

[grahamhgreen]

504. "Used Car Salesman" IS TOTALLY innapropriate!!!!! The 'C' should be swapped for a 'W' :-)

[WilliamPitt]

513. ^^^For the Win ^^^

*sigh*

[ProSense]

515. For deflective nonsense.

The despicable name calling is still not appropriate.

[Hissyspit]

526. Lecturing people about what's appropriate and what's deflection.

After bringing race in for no appropriate reason.

[ProSense]

527. My point was "appropriate"

What doesn't make sense is defending despicable and inappropriate name calling.

[laundry_queen]

594. Your post WAS inappropriate name calling. nt

[truebrit71]

649. Ah, so you can accuse someone of being a RW racist, but using 'used car salesman' is over the line..

Yes?

[grahamhgreen]

562. Love you both:) Torture is despicable. Can't wait til you see the light Pro!

[ProSense]

568. Your comment makes no sense. n/t

[bobduca]

532. If this thread doesnt make it clear to everyone that you have a protected status here nothing will.

[ProSense]

537. Absurd. n/t

[bobduca]

538. Fact.

"Some People" clearly have your back.

[ProSense]

540. Fact: Many people are disgusted with the gratuitous name calling. n/t

[bobduca]

542. Clearly name calling calls for smears by association. Do you ever engage in honest debate ? ever?

[ProSense]

545. Do you seriously think that your comments are an invitation to an "honest debate"?

You can't be serious.

[bobduca]

546. my comments have one purpose : to call out your vile, blatant hypocrisy on this thread.

SMEARS BY ASSOCIATION are a favored tactic of Right-Wing smear merchants.

see?

[ProSense]

547. Now, you're telling jokes? n/t

[bobduca]

549. Is this a Random Response Generator now? Fuck this.

[ProSense]

551. LOL! n/t

[truebrit71]

650. "RW Racist" is not "gratuitous name calling"?

Some might suggest that you go Cheney yourself, I'm not saying that you understand, but others might...

[Bobbie Jo]

665. Some might suggest

that you seem consumed with hate and bitterness.

Mind you, I'm not saying that, but others might..... based upon the sheer number of abusive posts directed to, or in reference to this DU'er.

Going after her username - Pro$ense - in this manner might be seen as incredibly juvenile -by some- (not me, of course) and someone might be tempted to try a play on your username by posting - truetwit71- but that would be really sorta childish....don't you think?

I don't know, really, but others might think there is some kind of bizarre obsession going on here.

[truebrit71]

666. And others might suggest...

...that you are part of her fanclub ba$e...not me you understand, but others might....

Funny that you see my attempt to get her to explain her baseless accusation of racism as being 'abusive'. Funny, I would have thought that gratuitous name-calling and baseless accusations seem far more abusive to me...but maybe that's me just being juvenile...

She called Will Pitt a racist and refuses to own it. So I'm calling her on it. Don't like it? Cry me a river...

[William769]

548. If you are referring to her being a Democrat, you are absolutely right!

To bad the same can't be said of others.

[bobduca]

554. No thats not what im saying

But thanks for showing your support for Right Wing tactics like Smears by Association as practiced by the OP

[JCMach1]

536. But given the rhetoric the POTUS was using,

probably an appropriate one...

Of course, I have never, ever known Will Pitt to use

or even HYPERBOLE!!!!

[Tx4obama]

539. Please explain how the name calling towards the president in the OP below is 'appropriate'

What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

Would any decent Democrat say "Fuck You" to a Democratic president to his face? I think not.
And saying it on a Democratic website is just as bad.

[truebrit71]

651. Please explain how "used car salesman" is racist...

Not one of Pro$enses fanclub has been able to answer that basic question...

How is that something a 'RW Racist' would say?

[freshwest]

560. And he gave a fine speech, but... Typical RW talking point. And too obvious. nt

[MirrorAshes]

570. Injecting race into this is just more fuel

For BOTH of your ego-driven fires.

I find Will's recent outbursts despicable. I find your tactics in this thread equally so.

I don't know what either of your true agendas are, but I do know you're both hurting this website and the community it supports.

[Cha]

571. The full blown "used car fucking hateon" has an ugly con site jerking off..

http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/03/21/leftwing-editor-turns-angrily-obamacare-calls-obama-piece-sht-used-car-salesman/

[Tx4obama]

575. OMG! Posted on 21 March, 2014 and this is the first I've heard of that article/site

I wonder if Will knows he gave the GOPers ammo.

[Cha]

579. I'm betting he doesn't care.. anyone with a functioning brain would know this

without the link.

Skinner doesn't think much of his continuous "doubling down".. and this .. "The polarizing language about the president makes a good faith discussion on the merits extremely difficult.."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4734689

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4736199

[freshwest]

618. RW knows what appeals to their base and demoralizes ours. No wonder we've got a troll invasion.

I knew the bashing was sweet music to them. Why anyone doesn't believe it effects new voters and Democrats, and independents, is beyond me. I'm not sure how they can read the forum if they can't see that. Sadly predictable results.

[Cha]

621. Most people know it.. some don't care fresh.. that isn't their problem.

Skinner knows what a circle jerk this is..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4734689

"The polarizing language about the president makes a good faith discussion on the merits extremely difficult. You are a smart guy, and you knew that echoing the insult that you used in the previous shitstorm would get exactly the response you got. I didn't particularly appreciate the last shitstorm, and I'm not going to get much utility out of this one either. This one thread isn't the end of it -- there are going to be a half a dozen other threads that get started over the next few days to rehash the appropriateness of calling the president names."

He called that one..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4736199

[VanillaRhapsody]

578. Soooo this is so clever....

if calling the President a "piece of shit car salesman" is not = to calling the President a "piece of shit"

then saying the person who said that is "expected of a RW racist" is not = to calling that person a "racist" but merely stating that this statement is the level of standard expected of a RW racist....

brilliant return volley I must say....you cannot have it both ways! Wow if I wasn't impressed enough before....I am even more so now..

touche!!

[sheshe2]

581. Kick Kick Kick!

[sheshe2]

583. :)

[ibegurpard]

595. sorry I don't get the racial overtone

I've never seen anywhere anything that would imply calling someone a "used car salesman" had anything to do with race. It's an insult to someone's ethics and honesty.

[Fearless]

598. A non sequitur argument.

[ucrdem]

607. The original remark was a color-coded callout from DU's resident dog whistler.

If nothing else respect is due the President here because he gets it nowhere in the media. To toss out lousy RW cracks like that -- and then do it again a week later, completely unmindful of the disgust engendered by the first one -- indicates a serious problem and not with us. JMHO, YMMV.

[Cha]

617. Did pitt get his rw "used car.. " bullshit from them or did they get it from him... ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4740850

[Fearless]

626. Your point is also a non sequitur to what I said.

[ucrdem]

679. It follows literally and logically.

Can't get much more sequitura than that.

[Fearless]

682. Only if you suggest that the OP is as well, as I do not, it is not.

[Cha]

609. It's "the used car salesman piece of shit" that's rw.. is it rw racism or is it just..

rw hate?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4686372

[Cha]

614. Here's your RW Racist "used car pos salesman" POS..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4740850

[freshwest]

628. ^^^^^^^^^PROOF^^^^^^^^^

[Cha]

629. Let's recap.. he was Wrong about his first ignorant rant and he doubles down

in his second "used car..whatever".. trying to make some damn point but gets so caught up in his hate he can't see shit. So now we're all waiting with bated breath what his next installment of "I Am The Hater" will be..


Is that about it?

[ProSense]

646. "he doubles down"

And all the people who were pretending it was in the "heat of the moment" are now feigning ignorance or trying to convince that there is nothing wrong with name calling.

Disingenuous crap.

[Cha]

680. It's beyond Disingenuous crap, imv.. it's the cult of personality..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024738811

And, he's got his little fan club on DU encouraging his rw shit so we can expect the next installment of "used car salesman pos" from the gloriously ignorant hateout.comer.

[Bobbie Jo]

645. Wow

That's just vile.

[cui bono]

630. Oh please. Read my sig.

While I feel it was unfortunate for WP to use that term again, it is hardly RW and racist. There are a lot of things said on DU, and I mean a lot, that are far more RW than that.

[BenzoDia]

639. Yep. It is entirely possible to be critical of the President w/o reducing him to cheap stereootypes

[we can do it]

644. Have to agree.

[raindaddy]

647. Let's at least be honest with ourselves, there's a reason this forum is divided...

Pretty much the fallout when you campaign as a populist Democrat and govern as a Wall Street owned moderate Republican. People who post here are politically savvy and they're legitimately angry and disappointed. Like it or not what you're seeing is that anger and disappointment being expressed in different ways. This is what I appreciate the most about Democrats, they aren't going to fall in line and blindly follow the party line like Republicans. And if the viewpoint of this forum narrows to the point of not allowing dissent then it becomes nothing but a party tool.

If I remember correctly LBJ was called a lot worse than a "used car salesman" by white and black Democrats.... Barack Obama doesn't need to be shielded by suggestions that his critics are "racists". Reminds me of what RW Republicans do when there's any criticism of Clarence Thomas, Alan West, etc from the left...

[ProSense]

648. No,

"Let's at least be honest with ourselves, there's a reason this forum is divided..."

..."honest" is not excusing name calling as something that happened in the "heat of the moment," and then when the pattern is repeated in a gratuitous way, feigning ignorance or trying to convince that there is nothing wrong with name calling.

That's disingenuous crap.

Despicable name calling is just that, and it cannot be justified.

[Hissyspit]

656. Neither can unnecessarily implicitly connecting someone to racists.

[ProSense]

658. You say "neither can"

That's circular logic, and you're still missing the point.

[Hissyspit]

659. AGAIN, I get your point.

And it's bullshit.

[ProSense]

661. No, you clearly don't, and it's not "bullshit." n/t

[raindaddy]

657. And the suggestion of racism?

Aren't you being a bit hypocritical? In the realm of politics "used car salesman" seems pretty benign compared to the suggestion of "racist".

Didn't Obama's Chief of Staff call liberals fucking retards? On some level most politicians could be called "used car salesmen", especially during election time. Pretty much the reason their approval rating is at an all time low....

[ProSense]

660. There

"Aren't you being a bit hypocritical? In the realm of politics 'used car salesman' seems pretty benign compared to the suggestion of 'racist'."

...it is again, missing the point while trying to justify despicable name calling.

[raindaddy]

662. I get it..

Toe the party line and despicable name calling is acceptable...

[truebrit71]

669. Yup!!!

...oh...and calling someone a RW Racist is not name-calling...you forgot that one...

[BenzoDia]

681. People here are politically savvy? lolol

[Marr]

687. Well said. /nt

[nyabingi]

652. Hmm

If you have ever read sites like blackagendareport.com and others from the Black left, you'd see that Obama is called much worse than a "used car salesman". In my humble opinion, Obama deserves much of the criticism he's received from the left/progressive community because his campaign rhetoric (and his pre-Congress days in particular) was always much more progressive and populist than his actual governing style turned out to be.

I am less critical of Obama domestically because I feel he is trying to change things for the better overall, but he is still beholden to powerful corporate interests and can't govern as much to the left as he probably wants to. His foreign policy though should be the object of criticism not just from the progressive base but Democrats as a whole because he has continued many of Bush's policies and expanded US militarism in some respects (drone killings).

People who already support Democrats will do so in November - the left criticizing Obama is not going to hurt his chance of winning over Republicans because they're not going to change their minds because of it. Blindly agreeing with Obama just because he's a Democrat and not holding him to higher standards is silly and infantile, and it seems many here disagreeing with the "used car salesman" tag are more concerned with party solidarity than letting Obama know that his supporters don't agree with positions.

[ProSense]

655. Welcome to DU

Bigotry and envy produce similar effects, and again, name calling isn't "criticism."

[truebrit71]

667. Like calling someone a 'RW Racist'?

[tridim]

653. It's shocking and disappointing that it is allowed to stand on DU. nt

[Daemonaquila]

670. Oh barf.

I'm so sick of the cheerleading on this site. Seriously, democrats can have issues with democratic politicians. We're not the Borg, and posts like this just underscore why many of us are done with supporting the party per se, even though we'll still vote for the dem 95+% of the time.

[ProSense]

675. "I'm so sick of the cheerleading on this site."

Well, not everyone is into "cheerleading" the same actions or people. Some are "cheerleading" the name calling.

[Cha]

683. Oh yeah, asking for rwinger asshole names not to be thrown at President Obama is "cheerleading"..

[whatchamacallit]

672. This may be the most shit post

in your long history of shit posts. Good going.

[ProSense]

673. An irrelevant comment. n/t

[Cha]

684. It is expected of a "rw racist" whether "the great duer" is a racist or not. I'm not saying the

great duer is a racist.. I'm saying it's expected of a fucking rw racist.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4740850